Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: B@tfinkV on April 08, 2006, 07:43:44 AM
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capturing bases starts the biggest furballs.
furballs make other parts of the map easy to milk run.
can't we co-exist.
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Nope. Its the base taking toolshedders that ruin the furballs.
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then you're not doing your duty as a furballer to make your fights turn good.
Our squadron is now at 31/32 players, we are a horde unless we have some serious opposition when the turnout is good.
often we will plan a mission, get some knights to fly buffs and goon, and then fill out the escort spots. After 20 mins of 'toolshedding' we usually have captured a base and/or stirred up a hornet's nest of spits and niks to start a furball with.
you just got to pick your target well, for instance if a stale mate in a large furball has arisen as the captures start in ernest, you fly from a few sectors away, and make a move on the enemies fields in the opposing sectors for them.
oh, I'm sorry, did you (furballers) think you just get to log in and have the Perfect Fight available everytime without any effort?
;)
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Emmm batfink, yes, thats exactly what they want.
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actualy batty... you are wrong.. The best furballs are between fields not at em.
The best fights are at the closest fields... The lightbulb glass like CV's are the very best fights when they are close to a field (till a griefer sinks it).
fairly close fields are next on the list.. if the fight is close enough to somewhere in the middle is the very best... furballers from either side have a chance of making it back or a ditch when they run out of ammo or fuel or major parts.
seriously... the game does need the fighter guys.... finding a use for fluffers is a constant, loosing battle.
So... nope.... don't need ya.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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you are not contradicting me, and you're of course correct about where to find fur.
sometimes there is a lack or fur, at these times it is our duty as furballers to create fur.
so you take a base is backed up by a carrier, instantly you have a CV vs Base furball with little more to fly than a few seconds to the action.
If there is already fur, then join it, if not, Start a fight by the mundane mishuns, and at the very least you get a furball out of a failed mishun.
think the furball you just joined as you log injust appeared out of thin air as soon as the map was loaded? not a chance, they were built up through hours of constant competitive fighting on all levels from GVs to furballs.
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wrong... the best furballs go on for hours and the only people there are furballers.... the fun is not ruined till some griefer notices that there is a lot of activity there and goes and kills one sides FH's and moves on looking for somewhere else to ruin a fight..
No "missunz" were needed.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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have to say lazs is right:O
the best furballs have no buffs, just good sticks in fighters. and they usually start with just fighters, 2 or 3 flying together, and being met by 2 or 3 enemy fighters. then it gets built on, and all the good sticks go there looking for a decent fight. the toolshedders see this huge thing, and say, wow, lets go kill the fighter hangars so out guys can take that base!!!
tats the big problem, whenever the two breeds meet it turns into a flame war which is lame. the thing is, the furballers dont give a s*** what the toolshed guys do, as long as it doesnt ruin a good fight, but the 'win the war' types dont like furballers fighting, they want them to take the bases, they see that as the main objective of the game.
let me say this for the toolshedders once, this game may revolve around base taking in the main arena, but that is not the object of the game, the object is aerial combat. it was never meant to be a race to win 25 perks. if you play this game for that, why bother?
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you poor saps think its about what and who is in the furball.
this thread is about how they start not the contents.
have you ever started a furball, i know i have.
and lazs its 'mishuns' not missunz
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
you poor saps think it about what and who is in the furball.
this thread is about how they start not the contents.
have you ever started a furball, i know i have.
yup, with a fighter sweep, never with bombers. toolshedders ruin furballs 99% of the time. there are a few guys out there that actually love using furballs as cover to sneak bases, which is ok i guess. still annyoing that the fight gets stomped on, but, nothing i can do about it really
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Batfink, you're making too much sense, you clearly don't belong in this discussion. :)
But let's look at this in a different way. We can probably see who "belongs" in the MA by looking at what HT built into the MA, and who it serves:
- Lots of bases ... great for both, gives furballers lots of places to find fights, gives toolshedders lots to bomb.
- Lots of fighter planes ... great for both, especially since most can carry bombs.
- Lots of bomber planes ... furballers don't need 'em, want 'em, or use 'em.
- Strategic (HQ, ...) and tactical (ord, ...) structures ... furballers don't care about these things, toolshedders base their missions on killing 'em.
- Radar ... useful to both sides, though furballers only really need bar-dar.
- A base capture system including troop carriers on land-sea-air, paratroopers, and the AI to move the troopers. Furballers could care less.
- Ordinance (bombs, rockets) ... of no practical use to a Furballer at all.
- GV's ... Ostie is used extensively by the King of the Furballers (Zazen), but otherwise a GV only exists to kill things on the ground, so of no use to Furballers. Toolshedders can use them in concert with an air attack to capture a base.
- "The War" ... the primary theme of the MA ... Furballers by their own admission don't care about it and it only peripherally serves their goal when a front stalls out and creates a furball.
- Fighter Town ... put in just for Furballers ... 3 fields on one map only.
- Missions ... Furballers don't need 'em or want 'em, useful to toolshedders to assemble and organize attacks to win The War.
- Bomber formations (and the flight logic to control the drones) ... only useful to Furballers in that it's three kills, but otherwise of no value to them. Provides Toolshedders with higher survivability for missions.
Well ... golly gee, Batman ... HT sure seems to have put a lot of effort into adding things for the toolshedders. The question of "who needs who?" gets kind of interesting if you look at it from the perspective of what the MA apparently was built for.
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gonzo... you have confused "need" with making available.
The strat stuff is there for those who like it but... that in no way speaks to the original premise which is simply...
wrong.
The fluffers could go away and the furballers would not be affected except in a positive way.... furballers in no way need fluffs in the game.
Now, let's turn it around.... the oppossite is not true. The game would be nothing without the furballers and fighters. Who ya gonna greif then? other fluffers? LOL.
Nope... batties original premise is wrong.. we do not "need each other" the fluffers need us but we don't need them.
Nothing you or he has said contradicts that.
Now... back to the difference in "need" and makeing available... The company needs to get as large a revenue base as possible.... that means bringing in as many mouse weilding fluffers as the game can bear... If, said mouse wielding fluffers can't feel like they are being noticed and "affecting the game".....
They won't do it. The balancing act is not about fighters vs fluffs.... it is about balancing the need to have the revenue of fluffer griefers against ruining the game for too many people.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Cool, so all I have to do to enjoy my sort of fun is...
play the game someone else considers fun?
Gee, here's an original troll. Maybe you can get some trainers to come in an flame us, then someone with a bbs shades account with "bks" in it can chime in with something stupid.
Maybe, just maybe, it'll turn into a worthwhile thread. ;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
gonzo... you have confused "need" with making available.
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No ... I think you need to look at this in terms of if you'd never seen the game before. That is, purely objectively. Which is to say, look at the MA in terms of how it functions and who best makes that machine operate. But forget it ... it's not worth arguing.
Looking at it from your angle, neither side really needs each other at all. The folks who want to fly missions would find opposition from people who want to defend bases regardless of Furballers. And Furballers don't give a damn about a base being taken other than it means the fight needs to relocate.
So if the community is as fractured as you say, we have two distinct games being played.
Which brings us to a problem of perception. I think a lot more players are into "the war" than are into the furball - this BBS is not an accurate demographic, as we all know. Compounding that, the furball lobby has chosen a spokesperson (or had one chosen for them) who advocates cheating as "justified" in order to get your/his way. Which takes a way a lot of your credability, and a lot of willingness from the other camp to work with you towards a solution. That's just basic human dynamics.
I'm being completely honest when I say that I would have gladly told anyone about to drop bombs on FT to stop (with my usual subtle use of metaphor) until this mindset that it's ok to lie and cheat and spy to get your way started up on the Furballer side of the fence. Why should I do the honorable thing to help people who will show me no honor in return? Those who know me, know I am dead serious about this.
The only solution I can see is that every map needs a FT. With no GV, no troops, no ord, no bombers, and indestructable hangars. There will always be "a way" to capture FT if enough people are willing to spend enough time coping with logistics, but these settings would make it more trouble than its worth.
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without toolshedders my game (as a dedicated lover of fur) would suffer some serious negatives.
- The battle front would be a static, boring, uniform nomans land. cherry pickers and BzNers running up and down a line of very close proximity furballs as the vulchers fly even higher to swoop on the same bases week after week.
- The different terrain flown over would be limited to a 1 or 2 sector strip between the opposing teams, very boring within a month.
- Eliminates the need for multiple maps.
- Eliminates the fantastic immersion effects of seeing 10 flights of bombers in formation, with 20 escorts hovering above. the GVs are great when i see one, i dont want to think im flying over a 2D flat painted ground, i want virtual WW2 experience not just a constant battle of free for all fighter town that becomes very worthless unless your enjoyment comes from killing as much stuff as quickly as possible without any grace or imagination.
there are probably more but i can't be bothered to keep typing.
as a BB troll topic, this one is so stale it's turning into blue mould.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
without toolshedders my game (as a dedicated lover of fur) would suffer some serious negatives.
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Clearly you don't represent All Lovers of Fur.
Check with Zazen for immediate attitude correction.
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"The fluffers could go away and the furballers would not be affected except in a positive way.... furballers in no way need fluffs in the game.
Now, let's turn it around.... the oppossite is not true. The game would be nothing without the furballers and fighters. Who ya gonna greif then? other fluffers? LOL."
This is not totally true I probably qualify as one of your hated bomber pilots but I also fly fighters. I also know allot of other base take types like myself that fly fighters be they heavy or light to engage the defenders but we do fly them and there are a # of base take guys that just fly fighters. So it seems to me that you ballers are not needed in the game as we base take types can fill in where needed. We are versitile and can have fun in either role.
Soooo if you went away it wouldn't make much of a difference because you ballers are so narrow minded and don't want to be in the "WAR" and really don't seem to have much effect on it I can't say we would miss you. In fact I can't say I knotice you much now except for these rediculous Baller vs Buffer threads that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and...... well you get the idea. :)
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Read a million of these posts so won't bother with any but the first, buuuut:
The bottom line is alot of people use this game for stress relief. Whether that be by pretending you're on an important mission to capture a base, or pretending your a hotshot fighter pilot going after the other guy. Both are ways to escape reality for a short while and clear their head of life's woes.
Unfortunately, the guy who's pretending he's on an important mission gets ticked when other people aren't helping him out.
Equally unfortunately, guy who's pretending he's a hotshot fighter pilot gets ticked when he doesn't run into someone who wants to fight him (ie, a person on his way to take care of that mission).
Chicken or egg, the FHs go down. Sometimes for the mission, sometimes to try and get people to join another one. Sometimes because the pretending hotshot didn't want to pretend he was on Defense of the Reich duty and shoot down those B17s for a sortie or two. I know I sure as heck don't want to.
Can we coexist? Yep. Been doing it for years, will do it forever. Are we going to constantly ***** at each other on the BBs and in game when our idea of relaxation/pretending is impeeded upon by someone else's? Yep. Been doing it for years, will do it forever.
Does it beat going to work? Yep. Been like that for years and will be forever.
All in all, not so bad.
S!
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well.... it will all be moot when the CT comes out and all the real history lovers and fluffers go there and us poor furballers are left to fend for ourselves in the MA..
All you "win the war" types are going there right?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
well.... it will all be moot when the CT comes out and all the real history lovers and fluffers go there and us poor furballers are left to fend for ourselves in the MA..
All you "win the war" types are going there right?
Ahahahahaa ... good one!
And never was heard, a toolshedding word, once CT comes out ... oh yeah ... and Dick Cheney's doing a speach for gun control ... and they found WMD's in Al Capone's meat locker ...
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Not sure...
All the furballer types ever gonna go to the DA? :D
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Thanks Vudak...a bit of sanity there.
Fact is, the game is designed as a "base taking" game, the core design systems revolve around that. It was made that way to give the planes a place to fly that had some "meaning", ie: a goal to work towards.
Its possible to use portions of that design to mae ofher player experiences less than enjoyable. A prime example of that is the porkers that continually roam the landscape, porking troop, ord, and hangers just to see things go "boom".
These porkers are not a reason to eliminate the core designs of the game, however they may be a reason to modify them. It is possible to keep aircraft on a field supressed without dropping the FH's , so why should the porkers have the ability to drop them completely?
Bombing the FHs should reduce the effetiveness of fighters coming up, but not eleimiate them. How to reduce effectiveness? Dunno...perhaps by limiting the types that can come up based on the damage done.
Suggestion:
5000 lbs damage: ENY<7 disabled
10000 lbs damage: ENY<15 disabled
20000 lbs damage: ENY<35 Disabled
Ordie and troops should operate the same way. Imagine if troops were damaged to the extent that you could only load 2 troops . Well..jeeps would get a lotta use then, wouldn't they?
This could even be weighted against the roster, so that is very difficult to pork fighters on a country that is vastly outnumbered.
Problem is, I doubt that HTC would implement anything this drastic with all the acrimony going through here now. We'd need a unified voice to get his attention at this point.
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Just what we needed, another strat monkey verbal masturbation thread
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Originally posted by Shaky
Thanks Vudak...a bit of sanity there.
Fact is, the game is designed as a "base taking" game, the core design systems revolve around that. It was made that way to give the planes a place to fly that had some "meaning", ie: a goal to work towards.
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Problem is, I doubt that HTC would implement anything this drastic with all the acrimony going through here now. We'd need a unified voice to get his attention at this point.
Yup ... I'd love to see base damage effects be analog instead of digital. Suggested it more than a few times in these recent threads. Get people up in the older planes more ... maybe they'd realize they don't need a Spit16 all the damn time.
But, more importantly, if all base assets (FH, bar, ord, etc.) were handled the same way then neither furballs nor missions would be so completely porkable as now, and the true greifers would be out of business.
I know HT reads everything ... gawd I wouldn't have the patience for it ... but until CT is done (and then a few patches released, of course) I don't expect him to put much into changes in the MA.
But if we could agree on a set of changes that would make everyone with at least 3 functioning neurons happy, I bet he'd at least consider it. Especially if we ( <- as in both sides of the debate ) could show reasonable expectataion that it would increase the allure of the game to new players. And if we can get to that point there's no more need to argue about this, it will be settled and only awaiting HT to schedule a few days to koad it all up.
Nah ... makes too much sense ...
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Originally posted by Shaky
Fact is, the game is designed as a "base taking" game, the core design systems revolve around that. It was made that way to give the planes a place to fly that had some "meaning", ie: a goal to work towards.
Its possible to use portions of that design to mae ofher player experiences less than enjoyable. A prime example of that is the porkers that continually roam the landscape, porking troop, ord, and hangers just to see things go "boom".
These porkers are not a reason to eliminate the core designs of the game, however they may be a reason to modify them. It is possible to keep aircraft on a field supressed without dropping the FH's , so why should the porkers have the ability to drop them completely?
Bombing the FHs should reduce the effetiveness of fighters coming up, but not eleimiate them. How to reduce effectiveness? Dunno...perhaps by limiting the types that can come up based on the damage done.
Suggestion:
5000 lbs damage: ENY<7 disabled
10000 lbs damage: ENY<15 disabled
20000 lbs damage: ENY<35 Disabled
Ordie and troops should operate the same way. Imagine if troops were damaged to the extent that you could only load 2 troops . Well..jeeps would get a lotta use then, wouldn't they?
This could even be weighted against the roster, so that is very difficult to pork fighters on a country that is vastly outnumbered.
Problem is, I doubt that HTC would implement anything this drastic with all the acrimony going through here now. We'd need a unified voice to get his attention at this point.
I pretty much agree with what you said here. I think two of the main things that really tick each camp off are the FHs going down, or the means to take bases going down. If, like you said, the effectiveness of each camp could be severly hurt, but not eliminated completely, each group could still have some measure of fun.
IMO, a tight call field suppression where the FHs are still up and people are willing to risk the vulch is one of the most intense and fun situations in the game, for both sides. I mean you just can't get more hectic then screaming out of the hanger, turning on the ground as tight as you can to avoid getting shot while your buddies in Flaks try to cover you, while all the while there are planes everywhere in the sky chasing each other and crashing to the earth. I certainly don't mind getting vulched in that situation, so long as I can keep trying to up - and heck, I wouldn't mind if I had to take a little earlier bird if that meant I'd DEFINATELY get the chance to at least try to up.
I also certainly don't mind being on the attacking side and swinging in to pop someone one the ground on my way to the next airborne, dodging AA fire all the while, either.
Either way you flip it, it's a blast.
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Heh heh Doc you just didn't start you argument far enough back.....BEFORE the game what was the motivation to create the game and what was it based on???
Why WWII of course.....and WE all know that the basis of WWII was for each country to test the mettle of it's respective fighter pilots and it's own aircraft design.
The furballers argument from a historical sense is of course nonsense, the idea of WWII was in fact to control nations and LAND, the bomber was needed to inhibit the enemies ability to wage war, the fighter was needed to inhibit the enemies ability to destroy bombers.
Rudementary My Dear Watson
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Nice initial sentiment, Bat.
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Originally posted by Boxboy
Heh heh Doc you just didn't start you argument far enough back.....BEFORE the game what was the motivation to create the game and what was it based on???
Why WWII of course.....and WE all know that the basis of WWII was for each country to test the mettle of it's respective fighter pilots and it's own aircraft design.
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Precisely ...
Battle of Britain ... the Luftwaffe only stopped bombing the British airbases when Leigh-Mallory got on the phone to Goering and told him to stop messing up the furballs.
Battle of Kursk ... a wonderful furball until those damn GV dweebs messed it all up.
Battle of Midway ... same deal, great furball but then some greifer with a high rank moved the Japanese CV's too close and it got 'em sunk.
Battle of Germany ... was the Mother of All Furballs until those damn pansies back in Washington decided they wanted the war to end before a whole generation was killed. Morons.
And, of course, lets not forget that the recent campaign of "shock and awe" in Iraq is nothing more than toolshedding on a grand scale ... remember what kinda plane Bush Sr. flew, afterall. Like father like son.
Gawsh ... things am be so much clearerer now with a historic perspective.
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Originally posted by lazs2
well.... it will all be moot when the CT comes out and all the real history lovers and fluffers go there and us poor furballers are left to fend for ourselves in the MA..
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Would that not be the same as a seperate furball arena? I thought the furballers didn't want one? Perhaps you can lobby HT to set up one using the back up MA and disableing everything but fighters. Then you could be in Happy Land. Of course there would not be so many less skilled there for you to lunch on.
After two weeks I'm sure the furballers would be back here saying they can't find any fights in a furball arena.
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Although it would be nice, I dont think a separate arena would work. After a while, some guys would get sick of dying and go back to the MA for easier prey. Then it would die out.
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Originally posted by lazs2
wrong... the best furballs go on for hours and the only people there are furballers.... the fun is not ruined till some griefer notices that there is a lot of activity there and goes and kills one sides FH's and moves on looking for somewhere else to ruin a fight..
No "missunz" were needed.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Right and wrong.
99% of the furballs start with the landgrab attempt
I've seen tons of furballs started this way and very very few furballs start for the sake of furballing.
The furball is typically the result of a stalemated landgrab attempt.
Eventually the stalemate is broken and one side prevails while the other looses a base.
There is no reason for the furball to end. Only its location has to change.
you loose the base, You simply need to up from the next base and fight between that one, and the one your side just lost.
Only the terrain over which the furball is fought has to change during the course of the landgrab.
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Originally posted by lazs2
well.... it will all be moot when the CT comes out and all the real history lovers and fluffers go there and us poor furballers are left to fend for ourselves in the MA..
All you "win the war" types are going there right?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
no they wont.
Least not in the numbers the furballers would hope.
reason being everyone. reguardless of what they like to do wants to be where the crowd is.
Why dont the furballers push for their own arena?
because thats not where the crowd is.
Same thing is going to happen witht he landgrabbers.
And right now. the MA is and always will be "where the crowd is"
thats why you dont see that many numbers in the Dueling and other historical arenas. Its not where the crowd is.
So unless they do away with the MA entirely. and have a Furball only arena, and a landgrab arena.
Furballers will always have to deal with the landgrabbers and vise verse
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They end when hangers go down. Then the crowd rtbs. The goons get whacked when the FHs come up, the capture folks lose heart, go elsewhere. The fighters come back, but there is no defense to kill since the attack petered out. Next base.
The only way to stop that is make the hangers indestructible, but increase the ENY as tonnage hits hangers. Even a bunch of 45-60 ENY planes will keep a fight going rather than end it altogether. Also make the Ack come up quicker, or make it so it takes a 1000lb bomb to kill it.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Precisely ...
Battle of Britain ... the Luftwaffe only stopped bombing the British airbases when Leigh-Mallory got on the phone to Goering and told him to stop messing up the furballs.
Battle of Kursk ... a wonderful furball until those damn GV dweebs messed it all up.
Battle of Midway ... same deal, great furball but then some greifer with a high rank moved the Japanese CV's too close and it got 'em sunk.
Battle of Germany ... was the Mother of All Furballs until those damn pansies back in Washington decided they wanted the war to end before a whole generation was killed. Morons.
And, of course, lets not forget that the recent campaign of "shock and awe" in Iraq is nothing more than toolshedding on a grand scale ... remember what kinda plane Bush Sr. flew, afterall. Like father like son.
Gawsh ... things am be so much clearerer now with a historic perspective.
for one thing, as stated many times before, this is not a real war. in real war, and i would assume if this was a simulated war, then you should have finite resources.....as the ma is no, there are infinite resources. you can die 500 times in an hour, losing all those planes affects nothing, as long as there are FH's to up from. If you take a field from another country, they lose nothing accept property. it does not limit what the other country can put up against yours. the only real determining factor is the amount of numbers you can put up against the other countries. you can take tanks out and spawn camp, rack up 100+ kills....or get your turret damaged and load supplies...and a brand new tank. it only takes 30 seconds to rearm and refuel a plane, or you can just crash it into the ground and get a new one at no cost to you or your country. CV's, one of the greatest war machines ever are killed with ease. it takes 10 paratroopers to take a town and an airbase, how many did it take in WW2? the only strat i see are the factories, HQ, and zone bases. zone bases, a no brainer, obviously you would want it. factories and HQ regenerate fairly quickly, and have minimal impact. we don't fly axis vs. allies, we all have the same planes available, until numbers are out of control. so where is this historical perspective again?
i think saying AH is a war sim is a bit far fetched, and if it was made to be a war sim, then it is not so good. It is however a very well made WW2 era flight sim. if you are saying this game is only about the war, then you are in fact saying that this is a ww2 simulation, which i find very hard to believe.
soo, since this is a ww2 area flight sim, then furballers should not need another arena to begin with. further more, why would you want to split the community further, don't you enjoy killing us?
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Clever bait!
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Originally posted by pluck
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soo, since this is a ww2 area flight sim, then furballers should not need another arena to begin with. further more, why would you want to split the community further, don't you enjoy killing us?
I don't ... I was only trying to highligt the absurdity of this whole "my sand pail can beat up your sand pail" controversy ...
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Batfink, you're making too much sense, you clearly don't belong in this discussion. :)
But let's look at this in a different way. We can probably see who "belongs" in the MA by looking at what HT built into the MA, and who it serves:
- Lots of bases ... great for both, gives furballers lots of places to find fights, gives toolshedders lots to bomb.
- Lots of fighter planes ... great for both, especially since most can carry bombs.
- Lots of bomber planes ... furballers don't need 'em, want 'em, or use 'em.
- Strategic (HQ, ...) and tactical (ord, ...) structures ... furballers don't care about these things, toolshedders base their missions on killing 'em.
- Radar ... useful to both sides, though furballers only really need bar-dar.
- A base capture system including troop carriers on land-sea-air, paratroopers, and the AI to move the troopers. Furballers could care less.
- Ordinance (bombs, rockets) ... of no practical use to a Furballer at all.
- GV's ... Ostie is used extensively by the King of the Furballers (Zazen), but otherwise a GV only exists to kill things on the ground, so of no use to Furballers. Toolshedders can use them in concert with an air attack to capture a base.
- "The War" ... the primary theme of the MA ... Furballers by their own admission don't care about it and it only peripherally serves their goal when a front stalls out and creates a furball.
- Fighter Town ... put in just for Furballers ... 3 fields on one map only.
- Missions ... Furballers don't need 'em or want 'em, useful to toolshedders to assemble and organize attacks to win The War.
- Bomber formations (and the flight logic to control the drones) ... only useful to Furballers in that it's three kills, but otherwise of no value to them. Provides Toolshedders with higher survivability for missions.
Well ... golly gee, Batman ... HT sure seems to have put a lot of effort into adding things for the toolshedders. The question of "who needs who?" gets kind of interesting if you look at it from the perspective of what the MA apparently was built for.
Nice list ... very correct in its context.
Now lets start a list of what can be done in the MA that HT didn't really design into the game or intented to be part of the game.
I'll start ...
- Bombers ... used to drop fighter hangers that are supplying furballs because some people think its a waste of resources, or used to drop FHs at Fighter Town and bomb GVs in Tank Town ... just because it pisses people off.
Your turn.
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Compounding that, the furball lobby has chosen a spokesperson (or had one chosen for them) who advocates cheating as "justified" in order to get your/his way. Which takes a way a lot of your credability, and a lot of willingness from the other camp to work with you towards a solution. That's just basic human dynamics.
Please ... try another angle ... that boat won't float.
Zazen speaks for himself and his opinions are his own ... just like yours are.
It's getting real old with all these people walking around with very broad brushes and self-serving cans of paint.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Nice list ... very correct in its context.
Now lets start a list of what can be done in the MA that HT didn't really design into the game or intented to be part of the game.
I'll start ...
- Bombers ... used to drop fighter hangers that are supplying furballs because some people think its a waste of resources, or used to drop FHs at Fighter Town and bomb GVs in Tank Town ... just because it pisses people off.
Your turn.
- Jabos ... used by "fighter pilots" to drop ord and barracks at opposing bases rather than defend a one's own base with fighters (i.e. furball) ... just because it pisses people off or they prefer to say one thing and do another.
Happy?
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
- Jabos ... used by "fighter pilots" to drop ord and barracks at opposing bases rather than defend a one's own base with fighters (i.e. furball) ... just because it pisses people off or they prefer to say one thing and do another.
Happy?
Almost ... let me help ya ...
- Jabos ... used by "strategeerist" to drop ord and barracks at opposing bases rather than defend a one's own base with fighters (i.e. furball) ... just because it pisses people off or they prefer to say one thing and do another.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Please ... try another angle ... that boat won't float.
Zazen speaks for himself and his opinions are his own ... just like yours are.
...
Hey ... I know that and you know that ... but seen from afar it looks like the FB crowd are advocating that cheating is justified because of him, and those piling on to the bandwagon (for whatever collection of reasons). Plus this "agenda" and judgement of other people's style of play is permeating too many other topics.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
They end when hangers go down. Then the crowd rtbs. The goons get whacked when the FHs come up, the capture folks lose heart, go elsewhere. The fighters come back, but there is no defense to kill since the attack petered out. Next base.
The only way to stop that is make the hangers indestructible, but increase the ENY as tonnage hits hangers. Even a bunch of 45-60 ENY planes will keep a fight going rather than end it altogether. Also make the Ack come up quicker, or make it so it takes a 1000lb bomb to kill it.
so your saying that when the capture folks loose heart and stop trying to take the base and move elswhere. the furball ends.
so without the landgrabbers there is no furball?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Almost ... let me help ya ...
- Jabos ... used by "strategeerist" to drop ord and barracks at opposing bases rather than defend a one's own base with fighters (i.e. furball) ... just because it pisses people off or they prefer to say one thing and do another.
I dunno ... the dweebs I see doing this just do it constantly and never really talk to anyone much (i.e. they ain't giving orders like I'd expect from one of our many "generals") ... maybe it's different on other countries. They seem to think of themselves as figter types because once in a while they survive and vultch a few on the runway, make it home, and get the "attaboys."
Sadly, its pretty easy for a small group of players - or just one - to pork the game for a larger number. Pick your poison and there's a way to pork it with very little thought, effort, or skill.
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Remember the crazy, intense fights that resulted when all you had to do was land on an enemy runway?
That was Beta and on the Beta map it was some of the best, most intense fun this game ever offered.
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Although it would be nice, I dont think a separate arena would work. After a while, some guys would get sick of dying and go back to the MA for easier prey. Then it would die out.
This is why the Furballers wants to turn MA into one big Fighter town...
Many of the Furballers posting here was in AW3 when they made a FT arena. They was all happy, it was going to be great... all but one little thing. Big Pac FR rolled along very nicely without the Furballers, but it turned out there wasn't as many pure "Furballers" as the posters on the forums made it look. The "toolshedders" in Big Pac was numbering in the 100's most night.... a good night in FT was 20.
But a seperate FT arena did fix one thing.... no more food fights in the AW forums about Furballer v. toolshedders. The had what they always wanted "Fighter Town" with no bombs, buffs, or toolshedders. They just did not have many guys to fight.
Well that is the way I remember it anyway. By the way I did to lots of time in the FT arena, there was many good fights there. And you was able to get good one on one fights with some of the best sticks in AW.
CAVALRY
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but seen from afar it looks like the FB crowd are advocating that cheating is justified because of him
From afar ... so you feel the need to put a microscope on it ? for what ? cause you have a hair across you arse (the Kitty is in the blender) for Zazen ?
I don't believe for a second that you honestly believe that the "majority" of furballers even give a rats arse as to the reason why someone would cheat or want to cheat (not coad hacking).
Hubs post clearly pointed out that a "strat" guy (LCA), was using a spy to advance his cause. Why? ... cause they give a rats arse !!!
I have been playing this game for quite some time now and I have NEVER seen that type of cheating/spying going on in either the 13th TAS when I flew with them, nor the BKs since I started with them. These 2 squads have been longtime "furball" squads in AH ... and bottom line ... we could care less where and when a mission is going/lauching, nor where a CV is hidden. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where a mission has launched nor its destination, if not flown NOE ... no need for spys, ya just gotta to look at the map.
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Quick note: While it may have been an LCA who was one the parties involved, at least 2 others, (the spy, and his liason in rookland) were in a different squad. Also, they were all kids, and as we all know, squeaky teens are inherently evil.
Also, we all know that we all speak mostly for ourselves. I, as an known furballer and vocal proponent for gameplay without griefing, am not a furballer. You're welcome to check my stats on every ID I've ever used to confirm this.
Very few people are pure CTFers, and very few are pure furballers. Banishing either group to another arena under the premise of making both groups happy is still a pile of crap. All this game needs to be perfect for everyone is less griefing.
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Really the bottom line. No matter what the arguement is.
this game is neither about furballing.
It isnt "about the essence of arial combat" and Hitech himself has recently specifically stated that.
But it can also be safely said that nor is is about the landgrab alone.
but whatever you want it to be.
Just as landgrabbers are annoying to furballers
the furballers do themselves a great disservice with their laziness in being unwilling to do what is needed to prevent or delay what they claim to be the ruining of their furball.
Those who claim they are only popping on for a few minutes (and really are doing so) for a quick fight are the only ones who IMO have a legitimate excuse. The rest (because I just dont want to)are just being lazy
If your not willing to put much effort into the game. Dont expect to get much in return
In any event. It aint gonna change
The only place I see the furballers having a legitimate complint and arguement is on the map with FT as the person who designed that map designed it specifically to have a furball area.
and on that specific map. and any other map that may be created like it in the future I will side on the furballers.
But any other map. Far as I can see. all bases are fair game to whatever happens there.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
These 2 squads have been longtime "furball" squads in AH ... and bottom line ... we could care less where and when a mission is going/lauching, nor where a CV is hidden. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where a mission has launched nor its destination, if not flown NOE ... no need for spys, ya just gotta to look at the map.
not to start anything but this doesnt ring true for me slappy. clearly you DO care alot about where, when and the targets for these mishuns, as they potentially hold the power to destroy your entire night of gameplay.
the overall truth is that furballers and landgrabbers occupy the same space and will continue to do so for the near future, and arguing about it on these boards has become boring for the deck chair and popcorn crew.
the premise that people destroy FHs just to piss you off........is not only self indulgent and self centered, but also in the majority of cases untrue.
people play the game to do want they can with a WW2 combat aircraft/vehical, Its your job to enjoy your time or bring down a ton of bricks on those that try to stop you having fun (read ingame, not on the BB)
when was the last time you upped a field and flew high cap for 20 mins to defend against bombers?
sorry you expect others to defend your FHs while you furball, or do you just suggest that the buffers are not permited to play at all?
with all due respect intended.
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All this game needs to be perfect for everyone is less griefing.
Maybe what we need to do is come to terms on what griefing is.....
1) Is spying griefing?.... on this I would say yes.
2) Bombing the FH on maps with a FT type area? yes
3) Dropping the FH/BH on bases outside of FT or on maps with out a FT area? I hate to say this but, no.
The furballers may say it is, but what one players see as a fun fight.... many others will see it as a base capture going badly due to the fighters upping there.
CAVALRY
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I think the major error in all of this is the "Toolshedders/strat vs Furballers" issue itself. Most(not all) "furballers" don't nessicarily hate buffers. They hate the greivers. I don't like, but can except, when a horde of bombers and a goon come rolling in and flatten a base then capture it. Sure it sucks that my little playground was taken away. But with a little luck I can find a new one. If not, I log and take my pastey self outside. What I positively can't stand is the bomber(s) that come in and level the FHs and that's it. They then sometimes gloat on 200 about it.
On the flip side, I'm sure the mishun guys and toolshedders hate that a single tiff goes across the front and takes out ord. and troops. Thus making it frustrating to try to organize things. I'm sure there's other instances you guys can think of but I'll be honest, I'm not a toolshedder so I don't know:D
Both the bombers pointlessly taking out hangers and the tiff taking out ord aren't from either camp. They are the greivers. But since it's a fighter or a bomber, if you are in the opposite camp they automatically become the "toolshedder" or the "furballer". I think some of us don't realize this.
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What if there are toolshedders that like furballing or furballers that like toolshedding? I enjoy both, isn't that possible for everyone or you gotta wear white or black and not gray?
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Originally posted by RTSigma
What if there are toolshedders that like furballing or furballers that like toolshedding? I enjoy both, isn't that possible for everyone or you gotta wear white or black and not gray?
No!!!
Pick a side:p
PS: Hi!
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Originally posted by RTSigma
What if there are toolshedders that like furballing or furballers that like toolshedding? I enjoy both, isn't that possible for everyone or you gotta wear white or black and not gray?
LOL I can honestly say I enjoy just about every aspect of the game.
Thats what I love about the Ma.
I can and do just about anything I feel like at that particular moment from GVing to landgrabbing baseporking to furballing.
And sometimes I blow stuff up just for the sake of blowing stuff up and to get chased all over the place by 5+ people just to see how long I can last or how many of them I can make auger before one finaly gets me with the golden BB
some are dedicate furballers. thats all they want to do. Some just want to grab bases and try to win the war.
Im glad the game. and the MA isnt only about either because if I were forced to do only one I would probably get bored, loose interest, and stop playing altogether
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I think the major error in all of this is the "Toolshedders/strat vs Furballers" issue itself. Most(not all) "furballers" don't nessicarily hate buffers. They hate the greivers.
by "Greiver" I am assuming you mean the ones that because they get pissed off over always being shot down they come in with bombers to flatten the hangars.
same as the GVers who get sick of being one pinged by a panzer on their tiger so they come back and carpetbomb the GVs comming in from a base which has no troops and only looking for a fun GV battle?
I would agree these people serve no real purpose. But dont see what if anything could or should be done about them other then the players on their own side getting on their case about it
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
But it can also be safely said that nor is is about the landgrab alone.
but whatever you want it to be.
i agree 100%. one of the greatest things about this game, is also in a way its weakness. this game allows you to do what you want to do. however it creates 2 parts of the community....which is its weakness.
for someone to say this game is designed to be a war, is not true. the same way it is not true for someone to say the MA is designed only for furballing. there are 2 distinct elements of this game, that should be able to co-exist.
the problem being, that, again from my pov, is that parts of the community (some on bbs, some not, and no one inparticular) refuse to recogonize the other side as a legitimate way to play the game. they think that because there is "a war" it means that they have to do whatever to win. that said, there is hardly anything about gameplay that has to do with a real war, no attrition, no really significant strategic targets, etc.
this game should appeal to many different types of players. no furballer could, imho, should want the whole map to become a giant furball as some have suggested......(strat guys)
i don't think splitting the community into sections is helpfull, as some have suggested. (strat guys)
remember, a lot of this started only because people thought it was a good idea to screw with FT, 3 bases on 1 map.
diversity in player base is great for this game, because you can do what you want, when you want. it is also a weak point/boiling point for the community. i think alot of the furballer community is only asking that some discretion be used.
that and, having the landgrabbers yelling at everyone on vox to kill town etc....after they porked the FH's...man that is annoying. that don't even think that we were there to fight.
but hey, if HTC comes on and says this is a land grab/war sim....fine, i'll shut up.
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What if there are toolshedders that like furballing or furballers that like toolshedding? I enjoy both, isn't that possible for everyone or you gotta wear white or black and not gray?
Thank you! Now can you individuals figure out why a separate arena doesn't work. I'll explain it anyway. All those that would think about joining a furball but aren't sure are not going to go to a separate arena, but they sure as hell will just go to that corner of the map and check it out. And visa versa. So an End to the completely tunnel vision view of an MA and Furball arena. No kidding it didn't work in WB. Why should we have to leave the arena that started as just AtoA combat?
oh, I'm sorry, did you (furballers) think you just get to log in and have the Perfect Fight available everytime without any effort?
OK so who played the beta for AHII? Any hands. Not one phking base taken, not one bomber not one mission. All fighters all the time all having a blast. All I had to do is log in and join the fur going on.
Now does anyone remember how this game started...? I wasn't there.
Remember the crazy, intense fights that resulted when all you had to do was land on an enemy runway?
That was Beta and on the Beta map it was some of the best, most intense fun this game ever offered.
Oh thanks Toad. Were there any bombers? Were there any missunz? Were there any perk points for resets? Was there any need for some maroon to take the FHrs down LOLH.
Yeah a furball can be seeded and if you are lucky, there might be enough people logged on, in both countries that realize, "ohh the furball is starting at random base X", and it might last under the griefers radar for a half hour or so. Yeah you might log in to that lucky night once and a while.
OR
You could end up with a horde and no enemy upping to fight.
Or
You could end up just phking off for 30 mins.
Or
You could go to the FT/TT on the current map and have a great time every time you log in, happily thinking "HT is great" and thrilled that your spending 15 bucks to do it.
AND
All the Strategist can wack each other off all night long killing each others hangers and stopping every fight that starts on the WHOLE REST OF THE MAP. Notice the rest of the map is for you startegerisat so I could care less how you play, I just want to be able to play my way thats all.
If you guys couldn't bomb outhouses every night your whining would make our whining look like a whisper.:aok
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OK so who played the beta for AHII?
I did.
And I played the very first beta for AH.
What made you think it was going to stay that way? It was a beta test after all?
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Who said anything about it staying that way. It just proves that you didn't need stategery for people to want to battle in AtoA combat. But if you read my whole post in context you wouldnt get stuck on just the one point.
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here's an idea...
Close the Dueling Areana, no one uses it for the heart pounding hair burning fights on a constant basis in any numbers worth mention.
Then we could harden all MA objects to be undestroyable, remove reset perks & map rotations, turn off war winning, and that should finally make furballers happy.
Open a new arena with strats destroyable, map resets, capture the flag combat without game considerations for protecting hangars, ammo or troops for those too lazy to protect them. That'll make the strat playing, "win the war" mission types happy.
Then we'd be... uh... where we are...never mind
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I played AH1.99something beta. I remember when someone (either through dual accounts or cooperation with the enemy) arranged for 2 fleet groups to get the escorts all sunk, and then the 2 fleets were then put on mirror-image patterns about 5 or 10 miles apart. It was an absolute brutal furball that went on for what seemed like ages. It was perfect.
I also remember seeing, on average, between 30 and 50 guys in there. However the point could be made that it wasn't because people weren't interested in furballmania, per se, but rather they didn't want to test, preferring to log in after it went live and just *****.
Anyway, I just felt like sharing that.
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not to start anything but this doesnt ring true for me slappy. clearly you DO care alot about where, when and the targets for these mishuns, as they potentially hold the power to destroy your entire night of gameplay.
Take my word for it ... I DON'T care ... one bit ... not enough to cheat (rely on a spy).
Like I said ... if one knows how to read a map ... one can tell where the fights/missions are and where they aren't ... it's way to easy to have to rely on cheating/spying.
I have nothing against valid missions ... those that actually PLAN and TRY for the capture ... all the power to them.
Missions DO NOT destroy my gameplay ... griefers DO ... griefers are one step lower on the evolutionary chain than those who spy ... and both are many rungs below the slug.
when was the last time you upped a field and flew high cap for 20 mins to defend against bombers?
sorry you expect others to defend your FHs while you furball, or do you just suggest that the buffers are not permited to play at all?
Last time ... hmmmmm ... back when I was a MAW probably. It was painfull to say the least.
I don't expect anyone to defend my FHs ... you want to take my base where I am flying out of ... go for it ... nuke it for morbid and make sure you bring some goons ... else I will consider you a griefer ... because your only intention would have been to end a fight just for the sake of ending a fight.
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here's an idea...
Not really. LOLH
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Grievers do what they do largely because the game lets them. I think that's where the "problem" needs to be looked at first. Take away the impact of their deeds and you take away their satisfaction.
Shakey suggested making base damage be analog, so that the most a greiver could do is take away the better planes or make people drag 2 or 3 goons to capture a base. While that's still obviously annoying, it's not a deal killer. The dedicated strat guys will still do what they do and adjust their formations accordingly. And the dedicated furballers probably fly the middle-ENY planes anyway, so not having Spit16's won't affect them much at all.
A couple greivers can no longer stall an entire front for 40 or 50 people by killing troops; nor can they extinguish a furball for 40 or 50 folks by killing FH. A base will always be able to launch some kind of fighters on defense. And it will always be able to launch some kind of bomber and troop carrier on offense.
It also means you can leave FT just the way it is. And if people go on a bombing binge then the worst that happens is everyone bombs each other's FH and you set the Way-Back machine to 1940 in terms of what there is to fly.
This seems like a nice, balanced solution which minimizes the impact of pork-based tactics without really costing the people who want to Play The Game anything at all.
Without getting into personalities, what problems are there with such an modificaton to the MA's base handling logic?
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fair enough slapshot, plz remember that I personally am firmly seated in the furballers camp.
I just find it important to pursue other activities ingame to protect my chance to furball. If this means flying one quick high alt run in a chog to intercept some buffs i am willing to take the time. If there is no fur i will post a mishun to capture a base and start a fight.
what i strongly disagree with is that anyone not furballing is automaticaly a griefer and doing what they do to stop the fun of others.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Shakey suggested making base damage be analog,
Thanks for the credit DoK, but there aint no "E" in Shaky .
Here's the post....
Its possible to use portions of that design to mae ofher player experiences less than enjoyable. A prime example of that is the porkers that continually roam the landscape, porking troop, ord, and hangers just to see things go "boom".
These porkers are not a reason to eliminate the core designs of the game, however they may be a reason to modify them. It is possible to keep aircraft on a field supressed without dropping the FH's , so why should the porkers have the ability to drop them completely?
Bombing the FHs should reduce the effetiveness of fighters coming up, but not eleimiate them. How to reduce effectiveness? Dunno...perhaps by limiting the types that can come up based on the damage done.
Suggestion:
5000 lbs damage: ENY<7 disabled
10000 lbs damage: ENY<15 disabled
20000 lbs damage: ENY<35 Disabled
Ordie and troops should operate the same way. Imagine if troops were damaged to the extent that you could only load 2 troops . Well..jeeps would get a lotta use then, wouldn't they?
This could even be weighted against the roster, so that is very difficult to pork fighters on a country that is vastly outnumbered.
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Originally posted by Shaky
Thanks for the credit DoK, but there aint no "E" in Shaky .
Here's the post....
...
Oh .. sorry.
I know it's an idea that's been floated before. Hell, I know I mentioned it recently. But it seems like something that would solve what both camps are complaining about and at the same time hopefully add more planes to the mix in the MA (through hangars getting blowed up).
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Yup DoK, its something that should be looked at seriously by the PTB. Some "ground rules" should be considered, though.
How much bombage to degrade a hanger 1 step? Personally, I think it should take 3 fighters worth of ord to drop a hanger down that first step, and take LA7, Spit16s, P51Ds and the other 7 and under ENY planes out of the mix. That translates into about 4800 lbs plus I believe, including rockets that may be carried. Of course, ALL hangers would need to be hit to drop the effectiveness of the field, so perhaps 1 fighter load could drop 1 hanger 1 step?
Dropping it 2 steps....step it up linearly, or base it on likely damage done by a certain amount of aircraft? How much damage should a box of lancs be able to do, drop 2 hangers to minimum? Dunno...have to think it through.
End results of something like this would be MUCH more than simply high ENY allowing fighters to up regardless of hwo much tonnage is dropped. It would take coordination and teamwork to drop all the hangers the same degree, it would take tactics and strategy to new areas, and thats a GOOD thing....the need for cooperation KILLS griefers :)
Hardening a few of the ack guns should follow the same idea. Dropping a 500 pounder dead on should kill any single field defense item though.
Also note that if something like this is put into effect, STRAT can be reenabled to mean something, like longer repair times for the hangers. Since the base will be able to up some kind of fighter defense even in the worse case, there's no reason to nueter strat.
Hell, its late, and I jsut came down here to have a cig. Should know better than to even check the damn board ...
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Originally posted by lazs2
actualy batty... you are wrong.. The best furballs are between fields not at em.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
That's very true, that is why I made it a personal goal to become the Grand Master of 37mm, to push the vulching horde tards off the fields so furballs could materialize...
Zazen
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Originally posted by lazs2
The fluffers could go away and the furballers would not be affected except in a positive way.... furballers in no way need fluffs in the game.
Now, let's turn it around.... the oppossite is not true. The game would be nothing without the furballers and fighters. Who ya gonna greif then? other fluffers? LOL.
Nope... batties original premise is wrong.. we do not "need each other" the fluffers need us but we don't need them.
Nothing you or he has said contradicts that.
Now... back to the difference in "need" and makeing available... The company needs to get as large a revenue base as possible.... that means bringing in as many mouse weilding fluffers as the game can bear... If, said mouse wielding fluffers can't feel like they are being noticed and "affecting the game".....
They won't do it. The balancing act is not about fighters vs fluffs.... it is about balancing the need to have the revenue of fluffer griefers against ruining the game for too many people.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Beautifully put Lazs.
Zazen
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Originally posted by mars01
You could go to the FT/TT on the current map and have a great time every time you log in, happily thinking "HT is great" and thrilled that your spending 15 bucks to do it.
AND
All the Strategist can wack each other off all night long killing each others hangers and stopping every fight that starts on the WHOLE REST OF THE MAP. Notice the rest of the map is for you startegerisat so I could care less how you play, I just want to be able to play my way thats all.
If you guys couldn't bomb outhouses every night your whining would make our whining look like a whisper.:aok
Haha! also Beeeeeautifull! mars01 :lol
Zazen
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Originally posted by Shaky
...
How much bombage to degrade a hanger 1 step? Personally, I think it should take 3 fighters worth of ord to drop a hanger down that first step, and take LA7, Spit16s, P51Ds and the other 7 and under ENY planes out of the mix. That translates into about 4800 lbs plus I believe, including rockets that may be carried. Of course, ALL hangers would need to be hit to drop the effectiveness of the field, so perhaps 1 fighter load could drop 1 hanger 1 step?
...
I never even considered that the base degrades to the highest level of all available hangars instead of just a progression. Thats bucking frilliant! The attack groups will need to coordinate their target selection to make sure all FH get hit equally to get the desired effect.
And of course if your own base gets hit and you lose the use of 1000 pounders (degraded ord) then such a strike requires more planes, or mixing in bombers to make up for what the Jabo's can't carry now.
Enhances gameplay and also shoves a dead armadillo up the collective backsides of the grievers. Perfect.
Strats do start to become important because if you do get a good hit on the FH's or AAA or whatever you want to retain that advantage. And it means folks may spend more time bombing towns and flying CAP since that requires less coordination than near-synchronous FH strikes.
I have mixed feelings on AAA. Realistically 6 .50 cal's would pretty much shred the gun crew and knock the gun out of commission. But in AH2 they don't, so cannon-birds tend to dominate. So saying that AAA are only vulnerable to ord would balance things in terms of Jabo's. Then it'd require a little more effort to de-ack a field ... so you'd correspondingly want the down-time to be a little longer.
I like it. I like it a lot.
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Originally posted by mars01
If you guys couldn't bomb outhouses every night your whining would make our whining look like a whisper.:aok
LMAO I highly doubt that.
Wouldnt be any better but I doubt their whines would be any worse.
They couldnt possibly be.
Just curious.
What mindless dink coined the terms "outhouses" and "Toolsheds"?
I assume they are feeble attempts at insults?
And did they realy think such terms would actually shame people into playing the game "their" way?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
...
What mindless dink coined the terms "outhouses" and "Toolsheds"?
... /B]
I started calling them outhouses because any time I play, from every base I launch (even 1 or 2 levels rearward), there's a procession of solo pork-based dweebs who do nothing but strafe barracks and ord. Then they either run (half the time the wrong way) or vultch the field for two passes and die.
I just found "toolshed" gave them more credit than they were due.
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What I see alot is that for a furballer you see all kinds of dots at so and so base and you think good furball. I up at said base and get vulched several times and say screw this, up my bombers and take out the oposing FH's to give my side a chance to up. This is what happens most of the time when I'm at a base that has a so called furball at it. Just a bunch of vulching. So maybe it isn't the furballers or the bomber types that mess up the fun but the guys that hang over the field looking for free kills that mess it up for all.
I have no problem with vulching if it is for some purpose like taking the base or stoping people from defending the next base over that we are trying to take. But most of the time it's just guys that have more #'s vulching a field and I get pissed because there is no hint of a real fight and so I go over at 20K and kill the NME FH's to let my side get up for a min or two. But half the time when I do this I get *****ed at for ruining the furball when in reality I just ruined the vulch.
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gonzo and co... don't you guys see? we are not argueing about how much effect the furballers should have on the fluffers but..... how much less effect the fluffers should have on the furballers..
in order for the few real "win the war, I like to bomb like my grandpa did" types to have any chance of having any effect on the game...
We have made the bombers fluff.... so much so that they are the first thing a griefer with his sharp eye toward game flaws sees.... he doesn't fly fighters.... he goes for the GV or fluff.
It is the best way to grief as many people as possible with little or no skill required.... they can bake in their demented little world the whole time it takes em to mouse their way over to the grief.
The reason that this is such a hot topic is because everyone (in degrees) can see it... even the most blind. The crew at AH even have come up with ideas to stop it... delayed bomb damage etc.
The arena has grown big enough to support a core of griefers and they are fluffers. They exploit loopholes that were put there to keep the game from taking eternity to "win the war".... Others, like the lca simply gather up all the newbies and griefers and tell em that they can be noticed if there are enough of em.... that their lack of skill is not that bif of a problem so far as getting attention.
For me... the very best fights were as Toad says.... back when you landed a plane on the deck to capture the field. but.... the fluffers complained that no one paid any attention to them. Fluffers left or ended up buying joysticks.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Well, whatever. What's the worst you can do? Type about it some more?
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Originally posted by Flayed1
What I see alot is that for a furballer you see all kinds of dots at so and so base and you think good furball. I up at said base and get vulched several times and say screw this, up my bombers and take out the oposing FH's to give my side a chance to up. This is what happens most of the time when I'm at a base that has a so called furball at it. Just a bunch of vulching. So maybe it isn't the furballers or the bomber types that mess up the fun but the guys that hang over the field looking for free kills that mess it up for all.
Yup....furballs inevitably degrade to vulching as one side is pushed back. This is a very good point that the "furball" crowd will now blame on someone else.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I started calling them outhouses because any time I play, from every base I launch (even 1 or 2 levels rearward), there's a procession of solo pork-based dweebs who do nothing but strafe barracks and ord. Then they either run (half the time the wrong way) or vultch the field for two passes and die.
I just found "toolshed" gave them more credit than they were due.
Looking back at my post. I Want to apologise for using that term.
Im typically not into namecalling in the BBS
It was late,I was tired ,I couldnt sleep and I was a bit cranky.
No good excuse for it I know. But there it stands.
I did however. Mean every other word.
Nobody is going to stop because you (or anyone) is insulting them with cute names.
When the horde is up and running. I myself have spent entire nights doing nothing but porking Ammo and barracks. Wherever the horde appears.
I hate the horde.
But I normally dont run far.
Once I'd accomplished my main goal I'll stick around to try to harrass and delay people trying to join the horde for as long as I can
If your a furballer, You should be thanking them. As they are doing the one thing that helps preserve the furball as it prevents or often delays considerably the capture of the bases that supposedly ruin furballs
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Originally posted by lazs2
gonzo and co... don't you guys see? we are not argueing about how much effect the furballers should have on the fluffers but..... how much less effect the fluffers should have on the furballers..
First off, so long as you refer to other payers in such derogatory terms, your arguments are meaningless to them.
Second, notice that DoK and I are talking about the same thing, how much damage the bombers should have on the fighters, and how to implement that into the MA. They ARE going to have an effect...thats the way the MA is designed.
The basic premise is that no field should be totally disabled of fighters, ord, vehicles, or whatever since this leads to a stagnation of one style of play and results in erratic "level the fields and kill the whole fight" styles of gameplay. However, bombing should have a palpable effect that makes it in the intrest of the defending players to stop from happening. 2 possibilities result from that...either limit the number or type of aircraft available.
Limiting number is a BAD idea, how do you determine who gets what plane, and limiting types to some would cause resentment by others. So that leaves limiting type.
Planes are already effectively rated by the ENY system in terms of effectiveness. Thus we already have a means in place to limit the types of aircraft based on their effectiveness in the air. Coincidentally, the planes of high ENY value are early war planes, slow and, for the most part, good turners, which should suit the T&B crowd well for base defense.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I never even considered that the base degrades to the highest level of all available hangars instead of just a progression. Thats bucking frilliant! The attack groups will need to coordinate their target selection to make sure all FH get hit equally to get the desired effect.
Thanks DoK, high praise from the master of scenario design :aok
Considet this as well...with this method of damage/effectivness progression, degrading a large airfield of fighters is an order of magnitude more difficult than a small airfield...as it should be.
Large airfields will become major targets, requiring a big effort to effectively degrade.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Looking back at my post. I Want to apologise for using that term.
...
When the horde is up and running. I myself have spent entire nights doing nothing but porking Ammo and barracks. Wherever the horde appears.
I hate the horde.
But I normally dont run far.
Once I'd accomplished my main goal I'll stick around to try to harrass and delay people trying to join the horde for as long as I can
...
No problem ... I know you well enough from the boards.
I too hate the Horde. I hate the lawndarting toolshedders. I hate the NOE Lanc bananas. Always have (I'm talking about the habitual abusers of the game here, everyone's flown bombers on the deck at least once). Not so much because they affect my style of play all that much, but because they lower the expectation and overall level of play for everyone.
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Originally posted by Shaky
First off, so long as you refer to other payers in such derogatory terms, your arguments are meaningless to them.
Agreed
Second, notice that DoK and I are talking about the same thing, how much damage the bombers should have on the fighters, and how to implement that into the MA. They ARE going to have an effect...thats the way the MA is designed.
Again agreed. And they should.
The basic premise is that no field should be totally disabled of fighters, ord, vehicles, or whatever since this leads to a stagnation of one style of play and results in erratic "level the fields and kill the whole fight" styles of gameplay. However, bombing should have a palpable effect that makes it in the intrest of the defending players to stop from happening. 2 possibilities result from that...either limit the number or type of aircraft available..
Now here is where the Furballers do themselves a great disservice as most of them are simply too lazy to actually do anything to prevent it.
As I said in another post. those who really are, and not just claim to be popping on for a few minutes for a quick fight have a legitimate excuse.
those who are going to be on for a few hours dont.
Simply occasionally take a flight every so often and either go kill off ord at the offending bases or kill of the bombers before they reach yours.
Like I said in the other post also. You get from the game what your willing to put into it.
If your not willing to go the extra mile once in a while. Dont expect much in return. you have only yourself to blame.
One mistake I keep seing made over and over and I sometimes do myself is killing the bombers AFTER they have dropped their load.
Once the buffs have dropped their bombs killing them only brings them back faster.
Think about it. For a 10 K Buff flight to reach target usually takes at least 20 min from the time they up to the time they drop on target. If they dont get shot down afterwards. its another 20 min to fly back to base and land.
thats 40 min then another 20 min for them to return
By Shooting them down after they have dropped you just the time you will see them droppoing on your base again.
If you let them go it will be 40 min before you see that particular pilot come back again. If you shoot them down they will be back and dropping in 20.
Now which would you rather have?The same buff driver trying to drop your hangars every 20 min? or every 40?
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
No problem ... I know you well enough from the boards.
I too hate the Horde. I hate the lawndarting toolshedders. I hate the NOE Lanc bananas. Always have (I'm talking about the habitual abusers of the game here, everyone's flown bombers on the deck at least once). Not so much because they affect my style of play all that much, but because they lower the expectation and overall level of play for everyone.
I dont mind the low level bombers. Means I dont have to climb as high to go after them and can even be taken out by ground fire.
I do hate the dive bobming buffs and see that as being pretty lame.
with the change in compresson modeling now I think we will be seeing alot more lawndarts untill people get used to it.
I know even before the new model I would occasionally screw up in my dive on target and not start my pull out in time.
I never auger intentionally.
Its either cause or Ack fire hit something important and I couldnt control it, Or I messed up on my approach, or I dropped wrong and blew myself up,
the latter two are far less likely but it sometimes happens
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Originally posted by mars01
All the Strategist can wack each other off all night long killing each others hangers and stopping every fight that starts on the WHOLE REST OF THE MAP. Notice the rest of the map is for you startegerisat so I could care less how you play, I just want to be able to play my way thats all.
And the Startegerisat could care less about how you play and just want to be able to play their way. So if they want to wack each other off dropping fighter hangers, so be it. It IS the MA after all.
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Just curious.
What mindless dink coined the terms "outhouses" and "Toolsheds"?
I assume they are feeble attempts at insults?
And did they realy think such terms would actually shame people into playing the game "their" way?
Oooohhh man you got some peoples panties bunched with this one dred. :D
First off, so long as you refer to other payers in such derogatory terms, your arguments are meaningless to them.
OK nobody is that stupid to think that calling someone names on a BBS about a computer game played by geeks, dweebs and dorks is going to shame anyone into anything.
The terms are thrown around because that are teh funnay and accurate. You guys call us air quakers, while not as teh funnay nor accurate as "outhouses" and "toolsheds" it is sorta of funny.
Thats all. Sheesh.
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Ok, first of all.... I am not "argueing" with anyone... I am pointing out facts... second... I don't really care if what I say is meaningless or not to the toolsheders and mouse weilding fluffers.
It will be in any case because they simply don't want to hear it no matter how anyone sugar coats it.
It all boils down too... if your game element has nothing except a griefer aspect... If you can't fight other players on even terms ever...
If your whole reason for what you do is to make it impossible for other players to play....
You aren't gonna be affected by anyones "arguements" or a few accurate terms for what you do.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by mars01
about a computer game played by geeks, dweebs and dorks ..../.
hehe speak for yourself :cool:
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Myself? Bat go tell your wife/girl friend that you are computer ace in an online fighter game, then come back and tell me what she calls you.:aok
At the end of the day if you think any of us are none of the above, see what chicks at the bars think of you...
Yes we are all geeks, dweebs and dorks.
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Im a pheonix missle slinging tomcat ace.
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Originally posted by mars01
Myself? Bat go tell your wife/girl friend that you are computer ace in an online fighter game, then come back and tell me what she calls you.:aok
At the end of the day if you think any of us are none of the above, see what chicks at the bars think of you...
Yes we are all geeks, dweebs and dorks.
fair comment, but did it occour to you that when we log off we have other things to talk about with the girlies than AH? ;)
online i might be considered batfink the aceshigh dweeb, but when i log off i turn quite quickly back into a normal likely lad in a world of very real dweebs and aces.
aceshigh is not played by geeks and dorks, we just become that when we start thinking it means anything more than a cheap nights entertainment.
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I dont think you want to know what we consider you in the real world. LOL
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oh no, please do tell :D
are you speaking for the whole community or just a small minority of geeks dorks and dweebs?
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I speak for anyone who doesnt dress up as a clown and date 15 yr olds on the side who also dress up as a clown. :)
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you'd be surprised how many people do these activities behind closed doors, we just choose to share them with you for a few cheap laughs.
"thank morpheus for the compliment. see, those moisturizing products must be worth the money after all, although i was only nineteen or so at the time"
was as much as i could get out of her, she doesnt bite on stinky bait as easy as me.
:D
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Bat you are all of geek, dweeb and dork. :D
You are putting way to much thought into my comments and missing the point.:aok
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l
o
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Originally posted by mars01
Bat you are all of geek, dweeb and dork. :D
You are putting way to much thought into my comments and missing the point.:aok
well, i still got a while to go to catch up with hub, gotta put some effort in myself too.
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Don't we all LOL