Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Bodhi on April 08, 2006, 10:33:08 AM
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As most of you know, I restore warbirds for a living.
At current, we have an F4u-4 (the airframe has no notable history) that is approaching completion. The owner has not chosen a paint scheme and I would like to ask you fellow AH'rs to help provide me with some ideas to propose to the owner.
The participant whose scheme that the owner picks, or is most representative, will receive three free months of AH from me.
The only rules I propose are this:
The scheme MUST be from WW2.
The colors MUST be American.
The base color MUST be glossy sea blue.
Have fun doing this and thanks for your assistance!
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<---looks for someone from last year's CT con
The f4u4 there had a nice paintjob on it. I only have a few pics on the hogs and they are all rear views so cant tell which hog is which.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
<---looks for someone from last year's CT con
The f4u4 there had a nice paintjob on it. I only have a few pics on the hogs and they are all rear views so cant tell which hog is which.
obviously we will not be duplicating another birds scheme.....
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Man, I wish I was good at design. I am however, an aviation pigmented plasticized polymer application specialist.
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Always been partial to "Marine's Dream", but that has probably been done to death.
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Bodhi, I'm curious as to why there is no known history to this airframe...? No S/N to be found anywhere?
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Originally posted by Dux
Bodhi, I'm curious as to why there is no known history to this airframe...? No S/N to be found anywhere?
The serial number is known. I should have said there was no "notable history" on the airframe. Just a stateside training bird that never deployed. The history on it is only a sentence or so.
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That's better than no bird at all, I wish I had it & the owner had a.....never mind. My wife is quite the artist & loves to do things like that & I could use three months of free AHII ( not really but what the hay ) but neither of us really understands what you want. What should I tell her to shoot for? An established Squadron scheme or a one of a kind scheme?
The only reason we are confused is the "it must be from WWII - but not duplicating another birds scheme"
How would you wish the scheme presented? Pastels/ink/paint on paper scanned in to you or photo-shopped?
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i think he means find a real f4u-4 scheme used in wwii, that is not currently being used on any restored f4u-4
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Originally posted by Brenjen
The only reason we are confused is the "it must be from WWII - but not duplicating another birds scheme"
How would you wish the scheme presented? Pastels/ink/paint on paper scanned in to you or photo-shopped?
Do not duplicate an existing, flying aircraft's paint scheme.
The paint scheme must be from WW2 and used on -4's.
As for history of the bird. It does not show being assigned to ANY squadron, so it makes it very difficult to come up with it's original colors.
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Random Model (http://www.kobeko.com/images/F4U4.JPG)
Another (http://hobbyflaps.free.fr/maquette/f4u4-3.jpg)
Same as above, different angle (http://hobbyflaps.free.fr/maquette/f4u4-1.jpg)
Here's a site (http://www.f4ucorsair.com/legends/living.htm) that shows what schemes are being used right now
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please keep them historical...
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Which type of -4 is it? B, C, N, P or other?
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how about this paintjob?(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/Mrusa/F4u4.jpg)
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i think that is a seablue i cant tell with the lighting on it
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http://airpower.callihan.cc/images/ww2allies/Corsair/f4u-4.jpg (http://airpower.callihan.cc/images/ww2allies/Corsair/f4u-4.jpg)
http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/F4U-4.jpg (http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/F4U-4.jpg)
http://air2airpix.free.fr/F4U-4.jpg (http://air2airpix.free.fr/F4U-4.jpg)
http://www.geocities.com/katzegeo/s-f4u-4.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/katzegeo/s-f4u-4.jpg)
http://batfredland.free.fr/AA06_corsair91f.jpg (http://batfredland.free.fr/AA06_corsair91f.jpg)
http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/corsair_68.jpg (http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/corsair_68.jpg)
http://www.airventure.de/hahn2001pics/hahn01f4u02.jpg (http://www.airventure.de/hahn2001pics/hahn01f4u02.jpg)
I like this one (http://ipmslondon.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/corsair.jpg)
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First, how long do we have?
If it's a decent amount of time, can I have a crack at designing a new non-historical skin?
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Does that mean that Ken Walsh's Okinawa based VMF-222 F4U-4 "White 13" has already been done?
Otherwise I'd go with that one as it fits all the criteria. He got his last kill in that bird.
I'm not finding any F4U-4s in those markings btw.
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Dan, I believe the EAA painted their bird in Walsh's colors...
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Dan, I believe the EAA painted their bird in Walsh's colors...
Yep, looked it up. Listed as USN/13 on one site but the EAA site says it's marked as Walshs.
Hmmm. Wonder how many squadrons besides VMF-222 had F4U-4s during WW2.
Making no claims to know much about USN/USMC birds :)
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http://www.aviatorart.com/stokes/s-cours.html
This one ?.....:)
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Originally posted by expat
http://www.aviatorart.com/stokes/s-cours.html
This one ?.....:)
not an F4u-4
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Well, Bodhi, I see now why you've asked for help on this, images of F4U-4s with documentation are hard to find :)
I'd hoped +Tiff could help, but when he said he didn't have much I spent a little time googling. Here's what I found.....
It seems John Glenn flew the F4U-4 in China the last few months of the war. I found a couple of different references to that, I would imagine that in the case of a person of his celebrity you could find much more with serious inquiries. Here's a page from the FLIGHT JOURNAL (http://www.flightjournal.com/plane_profiles/corsair/corsair_history.asp) website that mentions his service in this role. Also, here's an image from their CORSAIR IMAGES (http://www.flightjournal.com/corsair.asp) that they say is his aircraft:
(http://home.rgv.rr.com/casamyers/glenn%20F4U-4.jpg)
I found a similar scheme from a MODELER'S WEBPAGE (http://www.elknet.pl/dartym/cors/cors.htm) that references a specific aircraft number (# 81294) of VMF-211 and service in China. It has a similar color scheme as shown in this image:
(http://home.rgv.rr.com/casamyers/VMF211%20f4u-4.jpg)
I also found references to VMF-222 and VMF-223 having flown F4U-4s in the late part of the war. Here's an image from another MODELING WEBSITE (http://justwings.com/catalog.php?item=155&catid=Planes%20Mahogany/WW-II&ret=http%3A%2F%2Fjustwings.com%2Fcatalog.php%3Fpage%3D3%26category%3DPlanes%2520Mahogany%2FWW-II):
(http://justwings.com/images/am235br.jpg)
However, this may not be helpful, as I can't provide a path to research the provenence of the scheme, and I see two problems. One is the red stripe in the center of the white fields adjacent to the star - my understanding is that was a post-war development of the insignia. Also, there's a photograph of a similarly-colored bird out there HERE (http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/corsair_img2.htm) that as you can see doesn't have the correct squadron emblem on the nose:
(http://home.rgv.rr.com/casamyers/vmf223.jpg)
I haven't pinned it down, but I bet that photo is of a restored bird which would mean you probably wouldn't want to go that route.
I think the John Glenn thing would add a nice cachet to your project and recommend you investigate this further, which shouldn't be very hard.
I hope some of this helps. If you use any idea here, contribute the money for the AH subscription to the cause of your choice.
culero
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keep at it....
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I have a picture of an xf4u-4 (BuNo 80760) The engine cowling is trimmed in red, black and yellow checker board . i do not have a scanner , but its on PG 33 of F4U CORSAIR in action of squadron /signal publications . There a maybe 8 pic's of other WWII -4's , but most of the others are pretty plain .
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http://bobqat.com/AeroBob/Warbirds/F4U-4.JPG (http://bobqat.com/AeroBob/Warbirds/F4U-4.JPG)
http://www.f4ucorsair.com/legends/N68hp.jpg (http://www.f4ucorsair.com/legends/N68hp.jpg)
http://www.almansur.com/jollyrogers/claudiovf5bcorsair02.jpg (http://www.almansur.com/jollyrogers/claudiovf5bcorsair02.jpg)
http://pegase.foxalpha.com/photog/0204/001506.jpg (http://pegase.foxalpha.com/photog/0204/001506.jpg)
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http://www.angelfire.com/bc3/sunb113spage7/Aeroplanes/corsair.jpg (http://www.angelfire.com/bc3/sunb113spage7/Aeroplanes/corsair.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/katzegeo/s-f4u-4.jpg)
(http://batfredland.free.fr/AA06_corsair91f.jpg)
(http://hampage.hu/repules/tokol/07260026.jpg)
(http://www.biplanes.de/images/best_of/76b.jpg)
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Meatwad, I think you missed what Bodhi is asking for.
He doesn't want a paint scheme from an existing warbird so any of those photos of current warbirds won't work.. And he doesn't want a postwar bird. Any of those with the red line in the star and bar are postwar.
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Presume based out of Okinawa in 1945 Looks like it has some green on it over the blue.
(http://www.dangreve.com/f4u41.jpg)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Meatwad, I think you missed what Bodhi is asking for.
He doesn't want a paint scheme from an existing warbird so any of those photos of current warbirds won't work.. And he doesn't want a postwar bird. Any of those with the red line in the star and bar are postwar.
Thanks Dan....
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Hello there...
a friend from USA gave me a link to this topic. I want to apologize first for my poor english. I hope it will be understandful ;)
I'm from Poland, but I am trying to know as much as I can about Corsair and his history. This is my favorite part of history so I would like to help with my not very big knowledge. I do not know every F4U-4 Corsair warbird wich is still "at service" so I will be shooting with my proposal. If it exists plz let me know. I'm sorry for no pictures but I'm searching something special only in my books.
If u, Bodhi, are searching nice historical paintjob for american WW2 F4U-4 there will be only a little of them as u know for sure. I was searching for some time for some nice painting of this kind of F4U-4 but I found nothing.
The only one is F4U-4 from VF-82, but I'm not sure is this Corsair was taken by US Navy at war or after. This specific Corsair is quite interesting because of rare identification number on the both sides of the fuselage. I have color photo of 82-F-20 and this last '20' is also on rudder and cowling. It had red "propeler nose" (how is it called?). It's whole in sea blue ofcource.
This color photo was taken on USS Randolph (CV15) in july 1946 but Corsair looks very fatigued so it can be at service from more then half of the year.
How do u think?
Best regards!
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Excuse my ignorance , but what is the reason for the red bar on the marking ?
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labovsky, could you scan it and post it in here?
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straffo,
the red bar was just a further attempt to ensure easier identification of the national insignia....
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Originally posted by Bodhi
labovsky, could you scan it and post it in here?
Looks like someone skinned it for another sim. Claim is that the image is from 1947
http://www.combatfs.com/index.php?loc=downloads&page=info&FileID=6247
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Another, right after the war 1946 F4U4 with the WW2 star and bar. VF-17 apparently
(http://paginas.terra.com.br/lazer/msmodelismo/referencias/jollyrogers/f4u4.jpg)
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I'll try and find out the unit....
(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/f4u-4.jpg)
VF-17, September 1945.
(http://www.almansur.com/jollyrogers/vf17f4u4odell.jpg)
Unknown unit.
(http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/corsair12.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Bodhi
labovsky, could you scan it and post it in here?
I will try, but plz wait. I don't have scanner at home.
Originally posted by Guppy35
Looks like someone skinned it for another sim. Claim is that the image is from 1947
http://www.combatfs.com/index.php?loc=downloads&page=info&FileID=6247
Yup, this is it. Is this F4U-4 was flown also in 1947 I don't know. On my picture, wich is taken from National Archives (by publisher) there is information that it was made in july of 1946.
But I can't see right number on cowling of this CFS skin.
Best regards!
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(http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/601-700/Rev630_CED48269/04.jpg)(http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/601-700/Rev630_CED48269/05.jpg)
(http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/601-700/Rev629_CED48268/04.jpg)(http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/601-700/Rev628_CED48267/04.jpg)
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Originally posted by Bodhi
straffo,
the red bar was just a further attempt to ensure easier identification of the national insignia....
ok, this is post war or not ?
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donzo, those are all post war skins.
Straffo, yes, the red bar is after the war.
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Thank,if my memory is good it was in use during 4 month during WWII , that won't make a lot of paintjob availlable
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any more suggestions?
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(http://www.dangreve.com/f4u42.jpg)
April 18, 1945, taken at Iwo Jima otw to Okinanwa
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(http://www.donzo.com/AH/f4u-4_1.jpg)
(http://www.donzo.com/AH/f4u-4_2.jpg)
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Donzo, what units are those?
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Details...jeez!
I will investigate.....
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No dice...sorry.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Donzo, what units are those?
Site - http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4u4spl3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html&h=295&w=586&sz=32&tbnid=EHCF1nf2TtKvgM:&tbnh=66&tbnw=132&hl=en&start=47&prev=/images%3Fq%3DF4U-4%26start%3D40%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
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Originally posted by Bodhi
any more suggestions?
VMF-511 from the USS Block Island (1945) Bodhi? This is "Daisy Jane".
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/37235.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/98025.jpg)
and for better detail:
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/98025f4u2.jpg)
link for bigger picture Bod, http://www.aikensairplanes.com/franklinmint48/armour98025.htm
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Site - http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4u4spl3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html&h=295&w=586&sz=32&tbnid=EHCF1nf2TtKvgM:&tbnh=66&tbnw=132&hl=en&start=47&prev=/images%3Fq%3DF4U-4%26start%3D40%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
That's where I got them but there's no unit infomation there.
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Originally posted by Donzo
That's where I got them but there's no unit infomation there.
I posted it for Bodhi to contact the host, if he wanted too. <> It's all good.
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I thought there already was a "Daisy Jane" mock-up still flying? maybe I am wrong
just stumbled on to this thread
why not keep it real, since it has no WWII service history, why not make it in the paint scheme of the Olathe Naval Training Reserve unit/squadron of F4U-4's
tail letters
K
7286 ( as on the vertical stabilizer/rudder section )
seems fitting since this Hog never saw combat..........
is what I would do........( isn't my plane though :-( )
edit: btw this is a very unique paint scheme for the Hog, and one that is not seen that often, from everything I have seen or read.....
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
I thought there already was a "Daisy Jane" mock-up still flying? maybe I am wrong
just stumbled on to this thread
why not keep it real, since it has no WWII service history, why not make it in the paint scheme of the Olathe Naval Training Reserve unit/squadron of F4U-4's
tail letters
K
7286 ( as on the vertical stabilizer/rudder section )
seems fitting since this Hog never saw combat..........
is what I would do........( isn't my plane though :-( )
edit: btw this is a very unique paint scheme for the Hog, and one that is not seen that often, from everything I have seen or read.....
Post a pic of it please.
Also, just an FYI, none of the -4's flying ever saw combat in WW2. Their is only one aircraft available to fly (a project) that does have history, and it is being restored to 100% authenticity.
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Bodhi, check your PM for scan.
IMHO this Masherbrum proposition looks more attractive but you have choice right now.
Best regards!
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Labov,
The only problem I see with submitting that image is that the aircraft appears to be an FG-1 or 1d. The windscreen is rounded.... not flat.
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Plz look on exhaust pipes and singular fuselage compressor air intake below engine - this is F4U-4 for sure :)
As I look on this photo it appears that this F4U realy have rounded windscreen. The others have flat, as I see. Strange... but this is nice theme for modellers :D
Best regards!
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I can not see the air intake.... too dark. But you are correct, it is a -4. I got to work, and looked it up and saw the early 200 -4's had 1d / Fg-1 style windscreens. Learned something new today. Thanks. BTW, I missed the exhaust, kind of embarassing.
Labvo, do you mind if I save it to my own stuff and post it for you?
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U can use some photo editors to increase gamma and then u will see this intake for sure.
Bodhi, it's no problem - save it and use it as u want. :)
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Post a pic of it please.
Also, just an FYI, none of the -4's flying ever saw combat in WW2. Their is only one aircraft available to fly (a project) that does have history, and it is being restored to 100% authenticity.
Bodhi, I never hosted any pics, shoot me an email via PM or email me at TequilaChaser(at)flyaceshigh.com
and I will send you some pics of actual squadron and planes left over from that era and also the markings kit description from a modellers kit.......
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sorry Bodhi, must of zipped and archived them to a DVD somewhere, I did however find the url link in my bookmarks.
here it is:
http://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/Decals/WW2/CuttingEdge/F4U-4_3/CED32058.html (http://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/Decals/WW2/CuttingEdge/F4U-4_3/CED32058.html)
shows both the black sheep squadron F4U-4 and the Olathe Naval Reserve F4U-4 planes ( real pics) along with the decal kit for modellers......
when I saw this naval reserve plane kit available, I dug up a good bit of other photos for reference but have not found them yet in my gazillion archived discs, will keep searching disc if ya decide to use this paint scheme.....
whatever you decide, am sure this will be an awesome HOG
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TC, they are all Korean era....
Can not use those.
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No paint schemes, but I thought you might find interesting...if you haven't already seen it: http://history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/f4u-4.pdf
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thanks Donzo
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I know this isn't a WW2 scheme and doesn't fit the requirements, but it sure would be a different look to an F4U4 and add a bit of color. Can't lean on em a bit can ya Bodhi? :)
Saw these on the Hyperscale forums today
(http://images.andale.com/f2/101/106/14432591/1144257521649_F4U_012.jpg)
(http://images.andale.com/f2/101/106/14432591/1146942337123_F4U_008.jpg)
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Now I know that this is not an F4u-4 but have a look at this link of a Vought F4U-1 Corsair painted to represent an RNZAF Corsair (No 5201) operating in the Solomans during 1944.
http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/former/f4u1.htm
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Looking for P38 Decals and took a chance on F4U-4 decals. Some interesting stuff from WW2.
Check the VF-89 F4U-4 from the Antietam and the F4U-4 from the Lake Champlain.
(http://www.eaglestrikeproductions.com/aeromaster/jpg48/ad48254a.jpg)
Now note on the second page the F4U-4 from the Intrepid from VF-10. Kinda like the stripes on that VF-89 bird myself.
(http://www.eaglestrikeproductions.com/aeromaster/jpg48/ad48254b.jpg)
Someone built a kit with those decals. Gives a good idea of the look.
(http://daveroofchallenge.com/graphics/vf89.jpg)
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
First, how long do we have?
If it's a decent amount of time, can I have a crack at designing a new non-historical skin?
Laser, give it a try....
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I know this isn't a WW2 scheme and doesn't fit the requirements, but it sure would be a different look to an F4U4 and add a bit of color. Can't lean on em a bit can ya Bodhi? :)
Saw these on the Hyperscale forums today
(http://images.andale.com/f2/101/106/14432591/1144257521649_F4U_012.jpg)
(http://images.andale.com/f2/101/106/14432591/1146942337123_F4U_008.jpg)
Damn Bodhi ... if your going non-historical now ... the above paint jobs are the bomb !!!
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Not going "non-historical" more than we are considering some of the Korean schemes now. Paint jobs last about 5-6 years, then they get repainted. The owner will have another -4 come online around that time, and it is a historical bird. This one will be painted to match the same squadron at that time.
Till then, we are going to try to put something on that is a little bit of an attention getter, as if an R-2800 and gull wings don't get enough attention already!
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Boy thats tuff, a second one in a few years... :D
Does he need any peelots Bod, I'll have a ton of tail wheel time by then. LOL :D
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:)
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Corsair.htm
(http://www.ipmscanada.com/models/dehavilland/CORSAIR_IV_2.jpg)
(http://image54.webshots.com/154/5/1/18/445750118jQkdJx_ph.jpg)
(http://www.airconnection.on.ca/images/thd48041B.jpg)
(http://www.internetmodeler.com/1999/february/aviation/av_corsair-2-1.jpg)
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NO LIMY Paint Jobs!
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Originally posted by mars01
NO LIMY Paint Jobs!
:(
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LOL
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Not going "non-historical" more than we are considering some of the Korean schemes now. Paint jobs last about 5-6 years, then they get repainted. The owner will have another -4 come online around that time, and it is a historical bird. This one will be painted to match the same squadron at that time.
Till then, we are going to try to put something on that is a little bit of an attention getter, as if an R-2800 and gull wings don't get enough attention already!
Well ... the paint job that Dan posted has to be the most attention getting F4U that I have ever laid eyes on ... it is gorgeous.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Damn Bodhi ... if your going non-historical now ... the above paint jobs are the bomb !!!
Agreed, but so are the guys on hyperscale...simply an amazing model.
ETA: How about this one?
(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/f4u4.jpg)
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Originally posted by mars01
Boy thats tuff, a second one in a few years... :D
Does he need any peelots Bod, I'll have a ton of tail wheel time by then. LOL :D
get yourself 250 hours of T-6 time, and we'll talk! Ohh, and btw, 150 of that had best be in the "bucket" so you learn to fly over a long nose!
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Sorry Furbie, but the Limey schemes are out... the one you put up on the squad forums has some potential though.
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Any thoughts on that VF-89, July 45 scheme Bodhi?
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Not being one sided or anything but the kiwi (NZ) paint scheme is the best.
See Furballs “limy” and http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/former/f4u1.htm paint schemes
:aok
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Any thoughts on that VF-89, July 45 scheme Bodhi?
I submitted it.... will know something in a couple weeks.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Sorry Furbie, but the Limey schemes are out... the one you put up on the squad forums has some potential though.
can i sue the owner for racism?
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get yourself 250 hours of T-6 time, and we'll talk! Ohh, and btw, 150 of that had best be in the "bucket" so you learn to fly over a long nose!
30 gals and hour X 4.25 a gal = 127.50 X 250 = $31,875 just for the gas ARgh. hehehe
Bucket meaning the back seat?
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Originally posted by mars01
30 gals and hour X 4.25 a gal = 127.50 X 250 = $31,875 just for the gas ARgh. hehehe
Bucket meaning the back seat?
Just pull the rpm, and manifold back to just above stall speed, thats what i do when gas becomes an issue :D Who says AH cant teeach ya how to fly ;) Only problem i can see is finding a T-6 owner who would like to see his bird at tree top level in fuel economy mode heh
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LOL I thought 30 gals an hour was :D Full bore she'll burn over 50. :O
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OUCH!