Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Boxboy on April 08, 2006, 07:53:15 PM
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If the CT buffs are ANYTHING like the Buffs in the MA I doubt I will be playing long.
I just tried to attack a box of 17's at 27,000 feet I was co alt in a Dora I tried EVERY angle of attack and the 17's were SOOO fast and SOOO accurate from EVERY angle that finally on high 45 degree attack he shot off my elevators and vert stab with his WAIST guns.
As far as I am concerned after this experiment all the arguing about bullet travel etc is just plain bunk....the bomber gun lethality is higher than regular .50 cals period and EVERYONE knows it.
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its the concentraion of fire and the deadly accuracy of unmanned gunns that causes the trouble for less experienced buff killers.
honestly if i have more than 2k alt over a box of buffs of any make, i will put down my house in betting i will destroy 2 out of 3 while taking no hits.
a 50cal is a 50cal in this game, im pretty sure all hit the same.
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Just like in WW2, single plane attacks on masses of boxed bombers was nearly suicide. Going in from 12 o clock offered the best percentage to kill the pilots.
Just remember, just because you're going up against a bomber group, does not mean you're going to win.
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Originally posted by Boxboy
If the CT buffs are ANYTHING like the Buffs in the MA I doubt I will be playing long.
I just tried to attack a box of 17's at 27,000 feet I was co alt
1st) Mistake Co Alt
2nd) Mistake you had a couple of goes at them
3rd) Mistake ..no patience to alt over the formation.
TIP ........ Always dive on bombers. Get nasty with it go for the head shot lol but pass underneath extend forward loop over and repeat :aok
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Bat speaks the truth. Level bombers at alt are the best weapons platform in the game.
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9 out of 10 times I don't have a problem with Buffs, stay high dive down fast hit em where it kills em. If you pick em apart piece by piece you are going to die.
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Originally posted by Boxboy
If the CT buffs are ANYTHING like the Buffs in the MA I doubt I will be playing long.
I just tried to attack a box of 17's at 27,000 feet I was co alt.
Worst thing you could have done
Originally posted by Boxboy
As far as I am concerned after this experiment all the arguing about bullet travel etc is just plain bunk....the bomber gun lethality is higher than regular .50 cals period and EVERYONE knows it.
dude think about it at least 12 50 cals firing hundreds of shots a second ur guna die weeeeetard.
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Originally posted by SAS_KID
Worst thing you could have done
dude think about it at least 12 50 cals firing hundreds of shots a second ur guna die weeeeetard.
Well Dud if you had read the post you would see that I tried every attack I could WITHOUT being dead six OR allowing all the guns to concentrate
WHICH dud is my point he DIDN't hit me with thousands of rounds he hit me with a FEW rounds which did more damage than a 20mm cannon
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I would say that attacking 3 B-17's is a bad idea as a single plane a 27K.
The B-17 reaches 300mph at 30K so you were almost at it's top speed and at 27K I would say your plane would be handling like a dead fish, just catching them and being sluggish. While the bombers are at alt and cruising waiting for you to make a pass.
At the very least I would get a 152, spit-14, P51 or P38 up to chase them down and even then it would not be the best thing to do alone..
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i dont know if it has been changed, but i think a big part of it is lack of dispersion on bomber guns
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Originally posted by Boxboy
Well Dud if you had read the post you would see that I tried every attack I could WITHOUT being dead six OR allowing all the guns to concentrate
WHICH dud is my point he DIDN't hit me with thousands of rounds he hit me with a FEW rounds which did more damage than a 20mm cannon
Why drag me into this???:huh
:p
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Originally posted by Boxboy
Well Dud if you had read the post you would see that I tried every attack I could WITHOUT being dead six OR allowing all the guns to concentrate
WHICH dud is my point he DIDN't hit me with thousands of rounds he hit me with a FEW rounds which did more damage than a 20mm cannon
Originally posted by SuperDud
Why drag me into this???:huh
your like toliet paper dud.. you get dragged into alot of things....
:p
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Originally posted by Flayed1
I would say that attacking 3 B-17's is a bad idea as a single plane a 27K.
The B-17 reaches 300mph at 30K so you were almost at it's top speed and at 27K I would say your plane would be handling like a dead fish, just catching them and being sluggish. While the bombers are at alt and cruising waiting for you to make a pass.
At the very least I would get a 152, spit-14, P51 or P38 up to chase them down and even then it would not be the best thing to do alone..
Give me a break the bombers reach max speed at 2 feet, they are like jets screaming across the sky. I see a dot screaming along soon I see a box of bombers.
As for attacking alone you are right, when HT implemented the "box" he needed to tone down the "otto gunners" abit but this is not the case as far as I can see, and in CT you have LOTS of AI gunners if what I read is correct and man I can't see how ANY fighter formation will be able to attack that.
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Originally posted by Boxboy
man I can't see how ANY fighter formation will be able to attack that.
There will, supposedly, be a lot more planes involved, and the shear numbers of attacking fighters will likely be the saving grace for the LW.
But yeah, formations in CT would suck mightily. Hope they take a slightly more realistic (or at least different) approach in that regard.
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Originally posted by Boxboy
If the CT buffs are ANYTHING like the Buffs in the MA I doubt I will be playing long.
I just tried to attack a box of 17's at 27,000 feet I was co alt in a Dora I tried EVERY angle of attack and the 17's were SOOO fast and SOOO accurate from EVERY angle that finally on high 45 degree attack he shot off my elevators and vert stab with his WAIST guns.
As far as I am concerned after this experiment all the arguing about bullet travel etc is just plain bunk....the bomber gun lethality is higher than regular .50 cals period and EVERYONE knows it.
You might not cut it in CT
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"Give me a break the bombers reach max speed at 2 feet, they are like jets screaming across the sky. I see a dot screaming along soon I see a box of bombers."
As you said "Give me a break" you obviously haven't spent much time in them.
The only time it looks like they are screaming along is when I'm just getting off the runway and they are already on top of the field. Unless they are 234 jet bombers then they would be going 400+. And if you are flying a 190D you should be on them like fly's on ****, the 17's and 24's that is.
Check you speed charts or hmmm maybe spend some time in a buff... The B-17 will reach 300 MPH at 30K the B-24 wil hit 300 at 25K . Now take the B17 at 5K would be about 250 and a B24 just over that. Those 50 or so MPH mak a big difference.
Soooo you were attacking the B-17 at alomost it's top speed at an alt that would make your plane handle alot more mushy. In other words you set yourself up as a nice target.
I have found on the last few 30K bomber runs I have done that my survivability go's wayyyyy up and the fighters life expectancy go's down.
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Just out of curiosity...what is the best spot to hit bombers. I seem to have good luck hitting them in the #2 or #3 engine because usually i'm in a pony and my best chance is to light em on fire and thats where the "fuze" seems to be.
Just wondering what everyone else does. :D
Bucky
"I'd rather have a German division in front of me then a french one behind me" Gen Patton
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45 degree angle into the cockpit, front, rear or side and splat. They are dead before they can switch guns.
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From high 12 rake fuselage for n' aft, &/or inboard engine.
Also 190D at 27k wallows around like a dead fish - easy target.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Just out of curiosity...what is the best spot to hit bombers. I seem to have good luck hitting them in the #2 or #3 engine because usually i'm in a pony and my best chance is to light em on fire and thats where the "fuze" seems to be.
Wing roots, whenever I can manage it. Best case scenario: I blow the wing off. Worst case scenario: either it immediately lights up, or the next person to land a round on it lights it up. On fire's just as good as dead, most of the time.
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Originally posted by Flayed1
"Give me a break the bombers reach max speed at 2 feet, they are like jets screaming across the sky. I see a dot screaming along soon I see a box of bombers."
As you said "Give me a break" you obviously haven't spent much time in them.
The only time it looks like they are screaming along is when I'm just getting off the runway and they are already on top of the field. Unless they are 234 jet bombers then they would be going 400+. And if you are flying a 190D you should be on them like fly's on ****, the 17's and 24's that is.
Check you speed charts or hmmm maybe spend some time in a buff... The B-17 will reach 300 MPH at 30K the B-24 wil hit 300 at 25K . Now take the B17 at 5K would be about 250 and a B24 just over that. Those 50 or so MPH mak a big difference.
Soooo you were attacking the B-17 at alomost it's top speed at an alt that would make your plane handle alot more mushy. In other words you set yourself up as a nice target.
I have found on the last few 30K bomber runs I have done that my survivability go's wayyyyy up and the fighters life expectancy go's down.
Thanks for your input, it really means nothing I have read the charts and have been playing these games since 1987, no need to act as tho I have never played. I find the playablity and the charts to be at odds in many cases, and the charts are based on specific loads etc etc..... But I do appreciate you trying to put me in my place thanks alot
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Don't think he was really lookin for the answer yall gave him
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Your welcome sir. I fly them allot and the charts seem to hold true.
And it was just the way you posted that made you sound like some kind of newb, sorry for the mistake.
And as far as this question
"Just out of curiosity...what is the best spot to hit bombers. I seem to have good luck hitting them in the #2 or #3 engine because usually i'm in a pony and my best chance is to light em on fire and thats where the "fuze" seems to be."
I personally get to a high 1 O clock position on the bombers (takes a bit of time I know) and then zoom down and accross to the left side, parking my plane right in the corner behind the left wing and pop it off. Or at least set it on fire. This method worked on 999000 in my KI-61 so it has to be good right? :) I think it's because you pass over the top and they think you will end up behind or below so they don't look out the side gun and befor they can change to it hopefully you have done your job. Be carefull on the exit though I dove and poped back up kinda close in front and high of him and he managed to pepper me a bit, Not real hard but I still don't like the sound of the ping ping ping.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Don't think he was really lookin for the answer yall gave him
Actually wasn't really looking for an answer on "how to kill buffs" but rather an answer to "will otto be this tuff in CT" which no one wanted to tackle.
I guess I phrased the question incorrectly.
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You didn't really ask a question, you stated you'd quit if the guns weren't dumbed down, then stated, incorrectly, that we all know they're set up differently than all the other uber 50 cals.
If you wanted to know if the bomber guns would be changed for CT, you should probably have just asked that question.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
You didn't really ask a question, you stated you'd quit if the guns weren't dumbed down, then stated, incorrectly, that we all know they're set up differently than all the other uber 50 cals.
If you wanted to know if the bomber guns would be changed for CT, you should probably have just asked that question.
Well thanks Hub I really appreciate you stepping in and making your point,
now if ya don't mind how about spreading some of that all knowing all seeing info on CT and see if ya can answer the question I have NOW posed as above (altho I doubt it since your main fortaye seems to be making folks seem dumb or silly on the forms).
I suspect your statement on the .50's comes from HT saying they have not been changed (but guess what even Dale can be wrong sometimes hence we get patches to fix things) and indeed they may not have but they sure seem tougher than those on the fighters.
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It has been claimed repeatedly, and dismissed repeatedly, that buff guns are different. Supposedly, according to those who coded the game, a 50 cal is a 50 cal is a 50 cal.
There have been no responses that I have seen that indicate that bombers will be changed for CT. The opinion that CT will be be seriously dinged by the MA incarnation of bombers, and that any sense of immersion or feel for crewing a bomber will be erased, is not new, nor yours alone. However, since there isn't a CT yet, and I've also seen no responses to indicate that bombers will will remain unchanged, it's impossible to say.
In summary, there is nothing concrete anywhere, beyond "fly bombers". A quick search of the CT forum would have told you that.
And, FWIW, I don't make people look dumb or silly, I just comment when they do it to themselves.
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(No, Hubsonfire, I am not stalking you . . .)
Boxboy, you posted something about bomber guns on the wish list forum back in March. This was, IMHO, thoroughly put to rest. The .50s on the bombers will appear to be more leathal than your fighter's return shots because #1 due to the physics involved, they are impacting your fighter at a higher velocity (no, I am not doing the math AGAIN); #2 bombers are larger/tougher targets than your fighter and #3 generally speaking bombers have a lot more guns firing at you.
For anyone who wants to see me not only make a fool of myself, but actually do the math to prove I was a fool, the thread was titled "Wish List" by Boxboy and was last posted on as of this writing on March 4. It shows once and for all that an individual bomber bullet will be more effective firing backwards at a fighter than that fighter's return bullet.
(Can't get a linky to work)
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Just out of curiosity...what is the best spot to hit bombers. I seem to have good luck hitting them in the #2 or #3 engine because usually i'm in a pony and my best chance is to light em on fire and thats where the "fuze" seems to be.
Just wondering what everyone else does. :D
Bucky
I shoot for the wings on the outside of the box. i.e. the wing that is least towards the center of the 30+ lazer 0.50s
This also helps keep the gunner from getting a perfect angle on you (i.e. just shooting right back at you as you dive on him). I almost never go for the lead plane...that's where the guy is probably gunning from. I try to shoot just outside the last engine.
Mars...I've not tried piolet shots, but I'll give that a try now that you've mentioned it....
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It has been claimed repeatedly, and dismissed repeatedly, that buff guns are different. Supposedly, according to those who coded the game, a 50 cal is a 50 cal is a 50 cal.
There have been no responses that I have seen that indicate that bombers will be changed for CT. The opinion that CT will be be seriously dinged by the MA incarnation of bombers, and that any sense of immersion or feel for crewing a bomber will be erased, is not new, nor yours alone. However, since there isn't a CT yet, and I've also seen no responses to indicate that bombers will will remain unchanged, it's impossible to say.
In summary, there is nothing concrete anywhere, beyond "fly bombers". A quick search of the CT forum would have told you that.
And, FWIW, I don't make people look dumb or silly, I just comment when they do it to themselves.
Just as I thought you have nothing constructive to contribute.
It's ok Hub I have learned long ago to ignore the likes of you.
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Originally posted by E25280
(No, Hubsonfire, I am not stalking you . . .)
Boxboy, you posted something about bomber guns on the wish list forum back in March. This was, IMHO, thoroughly put to rest. The .50s on the bombers will appear to be more leathal than your fighter's return shots because #1 due to the physics involved, they are impacting your fighter at a higher velocity (no, I am not doing the math AGAIN); #2 bombers are larger/tougher targets than your fighter and #3 generally speaking bombers have a lot more guns firing at you.
For anyone who wants to see me not only make a fool of myself, but actually do the math to prove I was a fool, the thread was titled "Wish List" by Boxboy and was last posted on as of this writing on March 4. It shows once and for all that an individual bomber bullet will be more effective firing backwards at a fighter than that fighter's return bullet.
(Can't get a linky to work)
That math exercise was great, problem is it makes NO difference wheather you attack from the rear or from the front or sides, the gun lethality is the same as far as I can see.
The ONLY difference is if the Buff pilot sees you or not or if he has a gunner or not.
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Originally posted by Boxboy
Just as I thought you have nothing constructive to contribute.
It's ok Hub I have learned long ago to ignore the likes of you.
:lol