Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: EN4CER on April 09, 2006, 08:33:34 AM
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Sorry to beat the Illegal Immigrant Issue again but the beaners with an attitude aggravate me. Mr. Bull Moose has it right in stating -
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but ONE FLAG, the American flag... We have room for but ONE LANGAUGE here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but ONE SOLE LOYALTY and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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Even Kennedy expresses shame over the congressional paralysis.
The entire congress, both house and senate, is totally paralyzed by extreme paranoia over re-election and partisan politics. They're completely unable to do their job because of their self-serving election interests.
If they won't close the border and toss out the illegals, then maybe we need to toss out congress and put in place a govt that is capable of actually doing their job, namely creating federal legislation instead of avoiding legislation at all costs because it might affect re-election chances.
Term limits anyone?
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Originally posted by eagl
Even Kennedy expresses shame over the congressional paralysis.
The entire congress, both house and senate, is totally paralyzed by extreme paranoia over re-election and partisan politics. They're completely unable to do their job because of their self-serving election interests.
If they won't close the border and toss out the illegals, then maybe we need to toss out congress and put in place a govt that is capable of actually doing their job, namely creating federal legislation instead of avoiding legislation at all costs because it might affect re-election chances.
Term limits anyone?
:aok :aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by eagl
Even Kennedy expresses shame over the congressional paralysis.
The entire congress, both house and senate, is totally paralyzed by extreme paranoia over re-election and partisan politics. They're completely unable to do their job because of their self-serving election interests.
If they won't close the border and toss out the illegals, then maybe we need to toss out congress and put in place a govt that is capable of actually doing their job, namely creating federal legislation instead of avoiding legislation at all costs because it might affect re-election chances.
Term limits anyone?
Okay, and the reason they haven't done anything about illegal immigration last year, the year before that, the year before that, the year before that, the year before that, and the year before that was because of what? The paralyzing grip of the 2006 congressional elections?
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Lots of factors contribute to legislative failures in the past...
Partisian politics and election fears have in my opinion tainted congress as far back as I have been paying attention to national politics (about 20 years) but in this case, the lack of immigration reform is probably more due to the feds leaving it up to the states, and the states likewise being held slave to election concerns. Why else would the bankrupt (literally, they are financially bankrupt) California state govt continually fail to address a problem that is a massive drain on state and local resources, if there wasn't some purely political pressure forcing them to not do anything, and worse, not raise the issue as a matter of state and federal security?
The answer is a combination of re-election fear and political moneygrubbing. Very powerful groups in California, namely the mexican "rights" lobby (mostly the right for every mexican to come to the US for free stuff) and the growers associations, have been working hard to ensure that no substantive changes occur on the issue of border control and immigration law enforcement. They've been successful, and my opinion on why they've been so successful is that the politicians, even if not outright corrupt, are too concerned with getting re-elected to have any desire to confront the immigration issue on any meaningful level.
What would help is if both political parties would come to a gentleman's agreement to not use the immgration issue in the next election, and then go to work solving the problem. But that would require the politicians to not only do their job instead of chasing votes and campaign contributions, but it would also require them to trust their fellow congresscritters. And that won't happen because there is a strong leadership vacuum in congress and even if they did trust each other, someone, whether it's an up and coming wannabe congressman or the media, would turn any decision on the issue into a mass political suicide pact.
So nothing gets done, and more emergency rooms in so cal go out of business, more illegals claim citizenship benefits as "rights" (since when is free health care and a drivers license a "right"?), and the country continues to go down hill while congress quivers in fright.
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The truth is this:
The Democrats want the votes of the illegal aliens when they get amnesty (or even if they don't and some moron decides aliens, legal or not, should vote). They are pandering to the illegals.
The Republicans want the votes of business people who employ illegals for cheap labor AND the illegals they employ. They'll likely get the votes of the business people. But the Democrats will get the votes of the illegals.
The general public wants the illegals out of the country, and their border crossing escapades stopped permanently.
Congress as a rule, on both sides, is too freaking stupid and arrogant to vote the will of those who elected them.
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Originally posted by eagl
Term limits anyone?
It's wishful thinking, I know, but I place more confidence in the public than that.
In any case, I don't believe term limits will change the partisan politics. The big two control the campaign purses.
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Originally posted by Nash
Okay, and the reason they haven't done anything about illegal immigration last year, the year before that, the year before that, the year before that, the year before that, and the year before that was because of what? The paralyzing grip of the 2006 congressional elections?
The Congress has become nothing. They've sold their souls to their corporate sponsors and surrended any power they may have had to the presidency.
They don't do anything but prattle on about laws that really don't matter in the long run anyway. The debates about assault rifles and late term abortions are proof of this.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The truth is this:
The Democrats want the votes of the illegal aliens when they get amnesty (or even if they don't and some moron decides aliens, legal or not, should vote). They are pandering to the illegals.
Oh no... they're pandering to hispanics in general. The Republicans are making a play as well.
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Originally posted by Nash
Okay, and the reason they haven't done anything about illegal immigration last year, the year before that, the year before that, the year before that, the year before that, and the year before that was because of what? The paralyzing grip of the 2006 congressional elections?
the reason nothings been done to stop illegal immigration is that those with power/money/influence have no interest in seeing it stopped.
they can hire illegals for less than Americans or legal immigrants, plus no payroll tax, social security, unemployment insurance, or workmans comp payments. if they guy gets hurt you just threaten to call immigration and your problem goes away. if his injury is too severe he'll just go to the ER and stick the rest of us with the bill.
as long as there are jobs available, desperate people will find a way to get here. people don't walk across deserts or smuggle themselves in shipping containers if there is no better life waiting at the end of the trip.
the problem and solution is simple and cheap. hold employers who hire illegals responsible for the damage they are doing our country.
for every illegal you employ you should be fined. roughly 5 times what it would have cost you to hire legal workers at the prevailing wage seems a fair ballpark to set the fine at.
for additional offenses or if you hire a dozen or more, jail time and lots of it.
this will also insure that we can monitor immigrants who come to our country. and if the workers truly are needed then let them come legally. denying the jobs to illegals will open up more jobs for legals.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
the problem and solution is simple and cheap. hold employers who hire illegals responsible for the damage they are doing our country.
for every illegal you employ you should be fined. roughly 5 times what it would have cost you to hire legal workers at the prevailing wage seems a fair ballpark to set the fine at.
for additional offenses or if you hire a dozen or more, jail time and lots of it.
this will also insure that we can monitor immigrants who come to our country. and if the workers truly are needed then let them come legally. denying the jobs to illegals will open up more jobs for legals.
That's not cheap. That's horrific to the agriculture industry in states like California and Texas. You and I and everyone else that purchases produce in this country will pay dearly.
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Originally posted by Sandman
That's not cheap. That's horrific to the agriculture industry in states like California and Texas. You and I and everyone else that purchases produce in this country will pay dearly.
if it costs more to produce it will cost more to buy. no doubt about it.
but I'd rather pay higher prices for products produced legally. if your business can't survive while operating within the law then maybe you shouldn't be in business.
so I pay an extra $.25 a pound for lettuce. I'd rather pay the extra cost directly instead of getting cheap produce but paying for it all the same in the high cost this country pays for illegal immigration and the problems it brings with it in areas like nat'l security, crime, and drains on medical and social services to name a few.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
if it costs more to produce it will cost more to buy. no doubt about it.
but I'd rather pay higher prices for products produced legally. if your business can't survive while operating within the law then maybe you shouldn't be in business.
so I pay an extra $.25 a pound for lettuce. I'd rather pay the extra cost directly instead of getting cheap produce but paying for it all the same in the high cost this country pays for illegal immigration and the problems it brings with it in areas like nat'l security, crime, and drains on medical and social services to name a few.
I suspect that prices would double or even triple, but that's just a guess. Simply because labor costs will increase or crops will be lost due to inefficiency. The people that are working the fields aren't a threat to national security and I wonder about crime as well. I'm not familiar with any statistics on crimes committed by illegal immigrant farm workers. I think medical and social services are valid concerns.
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In all fairness it isn't the illegals WORKING that are causing the problems. It's the ones not working, transporting drugs, selling drugs, ripping off houses and people, defrauding the other poor saps trying to get across the border, robbing, raping and in general just not being very nice people.
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Originally posted by Sandman
The people that are working the fields aren't a threat to national security and I wonder about crime as well. I'm not familiar with any statistics on crimes committed by illegal immigrant farm workers. I think medical and social services are valid concerns.
the problem is that when they come in illegally you have no idea who you are getting. if we need the migrants let them apply for work visas and do it legally.
an additional benefit is that if we bring people in legally we end up with immigrants who are willing to function within the rules of our society.
with illegals you have a complete sub-society. living completely outside the laws of this nation. while many are just looking for an honest days work, if they are here illegally they are criminals. so as far as your statistics on illegal immigrant farm workers every single one of them is a criminal.
I'm not suggesting a persecution of these people, but it is simply not an issue we can continue to ignore or tolerate. why even have immigration laws, controlled borders or any of that if we are going to turn a blind eye because we don't want to pay a fair price for produce or are to cheap to pay a fair wage for an American(or legal alien) to do the work in America.
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I'm sorry... when you mentioned crimes brought by illegal immigrants, I was thinking more along the lines of crimes that actually had victims. You know... burglary, robbery, assault, murder, etc.
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When illegals and their employers don't pay any taxes etc., and enjoy all of the benefits, the rest of us are ALL victims. Hence, it is NOT a victimless crime.
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Pffft... back up to the start of this particular discussion.
Capt. Apathy stated:
problems it brings with it in areas like nat'l security, crime, and drains on medical and social services to name a few
You're talking about drains on medical and social services because of the lack of taxes. Simply lumping this under "crime" doesn't fit within the context of the discussion. The argument presented treats crime as a separate item.
Certainly, I agree that illegal immigrants are or can be a burden to our social systems. It's also the best argument for amnesty going. Make them participate in our system and pay their taxes like the rest of us.
Punishing farmers for hiring people to do a job that no one else will do won't fix the problem. It'll simply escalate costs.
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you don't get any cases in your area of illegals smuggling in heroin when they make the trip so they can have a bit more cash to start out with?
many find the business so good they skip the agricultural work all together.
then there was that guy who was killing all those people a few years back. IIRC he was following the railroad and most of his victims where very near tracks. took them a while to catch him. what with him not legally existing in this country and all.
how about when the illegal runs his truck into you? simple auto accident, only no license no insurance, you can't even garnish his wages because there is no record of him working.
how about child support and other legal judgments or debts? if there is no record when he works and no record of him being in this country, how do you get your judgment (like you could even get a judgment because the guy isn't in this country legally, he sure isn't going to show up in a court room)
another problem is that by the nature of their situation they operate outside the law. not just by breaking it but they also are not afforded the protections of the law.
for example. supposing one illegal victimizes another (steals, mugs him, rapes someone, beats up there kid, whatever). the victim can't go to the cops, he's illegal too. so he handles it himself, a knife, a gun, maybe a drive-by at a store where your kid is buying a candybar.
people who don't operate under our laws, get a free ride on taxes, and often don't speak our language are not likely to assimilate into our culture.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Punishing farmers for hiring people to do a job that no one else will do won't fix the problem. It'll simply escalate costs. [/B]
it's been my experience that there is no such thing as "a job no one else will do". there are simply employers who aren't willing to pay what it takes to get workers.
I'm curious though. what do you think amnesty will accomplish?
say we buy into it and all illegals instantly become legal.
now they are documented, there employers now must pay minimum wage, provide Workman's comp insurance, unemployment insurance, payroll taxes, plus the workers are going to need a bit more money(just like the rest of us) now that taxes are being deducted from their checks.
so after amnesty the employers are going to run into the same problem hiring illegals who are now legals as they do hiring Americans and legals now.
so they'll just have to bring in new illegals to do the work until we give those amnesty and he has to import a new batch.
why bother with a border at all?
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The truth is this:
The Democrats want the votes of the illegal aliens when they get amnesty (or even if they don't and some moron decides aliens, legal or not, should vote). They are pandering to the illegals.
The Republicans want the votes of business people who employ illegals for cheap labor AND the illegals they employ. They'll likely get the votes of the business people. But the Democrats will get the votes of the illegals.
The general public wants the illegals out of the country, and their border crossing escapades stopped permanently.
Congress as a rule, on both sides, is too freaking stupid and arrogant to vote the will of those who elected them.
The immigrants are not as easily sold to the democrats as you would think.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I suspect that prices would double or even triple, but that's just a guess. Simply because labor costs will increase or crops will be lost due to inefficiency.
the labor cost to pick a $3 box of strawberries is 7 cents.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
you don't get any cases in your area of illegals smuggling in heroin when they make the trip so they can have a bit more cash to start out with?
many find the business so good they skip the agricultural work all together.
then there was that guy who was killing all those people a few years back. IIRC he was following the railroad and most of his victims where very near tracks. took them a while to catch him. what with him not legally existing in this country and all.
how about when the illegal runs his truck into you? simple auto accident, only no license no insurance, you can't even garnish his wages because there is no record of him working.
how about child support and other legal judgments or debts? if there is no record when he works and no record of him being in this country, how do you get your judgment (like you could even get a judgment because the guy isn't in this country legally, he sure isn't going to show up in a court room)
another problem is that by the nature of their situation they operate outside the law. not just by breaking it but they also are not afforded the protections of the law.
for example. supposing one illegal victimizes another (steals, mugs him, rapes someone, beats up there kid, whatever). the victim can't go to the cops, he's illegal too. so he handles it himself, a knife, a gun, maybe a drive-by at a store where your kid is buying a candybar.
people who don't operate under our laws, get a free ride on taxes, and often don't speak our language are not likely to assimilate into our culture.
Hmmm... the heroin thing... There are something like 11 million illegal immigrants in this country. Maybe I've just not paid enough attention to such things. As a percentage, how many are heroin smugglers?
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Too many.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
it's been my experience that there is no such thing as "a job no one else will do". there are simply employers who aren't willing to pay what it takes to get workers.
I'm curious though. what do you think amnesty will accomplish?
say we buy into it and all illegals instantly become legal.
now they are documented, there employers now must pay minimum wage, provide Workman's comp insurance, unemployment insurance, payroll taxes, plus the workers are going to need a bit more money(just like the rest of us) now that taxes are being deducted from their checks.
so after amnesty the employers are going to run into the same problem hiring illegals who are now legals as they do hiring Americans and legals now.
so they'll just have to bring in new illegals to do the work until we give those amnesty and he has to import a new batch.
why bother with a border at all?
You know... you're absolutely right. This is a complicated problem with no simple solutions. Whatever solutions are available, any that count on border control are doomed to failure, IMHO.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Punishing farmers for hiring people to do a job that no one else will do won't fix the problem. It'll simply escalate costs.
Pfft yourself, you sound like yet another economically ignorant in-the-pocket-of-big-business Senator when you throw out that argument.
There is no such thing as a "job that no one else will do," only jobs that no one else will do at that price. Illegally circumventing minimum wage laws, immigration laws, and everything else put in place to protect workers in this country only artificially depresses the wages to the point that people can spout their BS about "jobs no one else will do" - not to mention increasing domestic unemployment.
So what happens if we get rid of illegal workers in our country? Lettuce might go up to $20 a pound. Demand for lettuce will drop. American farms may go out of business or switch to a crop that is more profitable. The world will not end. I will eat fewer salads. McSaladshakers will get pulled off the market. Armageddon will not ensue.
Then, the market will begin to correct itself. Some enterprising farmer will discover that if he charters a bus from the inner city to his farm, and pays a decent, legal wage, he can sell his lettuce for only $16 a pound. Another will discover that he can invent a new machine to help him pick lettuce and sell it for $15 a pound. A researcher somewhere will say "there's a huge cultural demand for lettuce, yet its price is so high nobody is willing to buy it - I bet if I invented a new lettuce fertilizer, I would sell tons of it to farmers looking to sell lettuce" - so he invents it, sells lots of it, and farmers use it to take lettuce down to $12 a pound. Then, some enterprising farmer figures out how to combine all of these methods effectively, and lettuce again drops in price - maybe even to a point lower than it started, since production is now so much more efficient, even though labor costs are higher.
It could even help out our Mexican neighbors to the south. Say an enterprising lettuce-picker returns to his country when his job dries up, and sees that there is now a huge demand for cheap lettuce in the US. So he hires his old lettuce-picking buddies for reasonable wages, and produces lettuce to import into the US for below the US market price. Now you're providing jobs for Mexicans in Mexico and alleviating the desire for people to leave. You're building wealth in Mexico as well as providing lettuce to McSaladshaker-eating Americans.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Pfft yourself, you sound like yet another economically ignorant in-the-pocket-of-big-business Senator when you throw out that argument.
There is no such thing as a "job that no one else will do," only jobs that no one else will do at that price. Illegally circumventing minimum wage laws, immigration laws, and everything else put in place to protect workers in this country only artificially depresses the wages to the point that people can spout their BS about "jobs no one else will do" - not to mention increasing domestic unemployment.
Economically, I think farming fits within the definition of "perfect competition". Ask one of those big business senators what that means. ;)
Then ask him how he plans on eliminating the practice of paying cash to employees.
As much as I might agree that it's a problem. I doubt very much that there is an enforceable solution.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Economically, I think farming fits within the definition of "perfect competition". Ask one of those big business senators what that means. ;)
Then ask him how he plans on eliminating the practice of paying cash to employees.
As much as I might agree that it's a problem. I doubt very much that there is an enforceable solution.
Excellent. No problems ever have solutions. Bury your head in the sand. Is that where you get your name?
oooh, that was horrible, but I couldn't resist :)
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I offered a solution. Make 'em citizens and tax 'em accordingly.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Too many.
Wouldn't have that problem if drugs were decriminalized. (But that's another thread). ;)
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So is citizenship simply an economic status given to people who can perform a service? If so, there are alot of Chinese that loan us money; maybe we should make them all citizens too.
Citizenship is much more than being willing to pick fruit for minimum wage.
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Like I said... complicated problem requiring a comprehensive solution that is still simple enough for a congressman to explain to his pinhead constituency.
Not going to happen, but it will polarize the voters and that in the end works out nicely for our two parties.
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Hmmmmm............
does it matter? Some think it's already over that it's a done deal...................
http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=23&topic=568
http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=10641
welcome to Aztlan?
Some are still making an effort?
http://www.americanpatrol.com/
Just some other opinions for examination..................
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Actually, I think both Apathy and Tarmac have outlined the correct solution(s).
I think it is most certainly the best of the available suggestions.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Economically, I think farming fits within the definition of "perfect competition". Ask one of those big business senators what that means. ;)
Then ask him how he plans on eliminating the practice of paying cash to employees.
What does paying cash have to do with illegal immigration reform?
How does perfect competition relate to this argument? If you're familiar with the concept (and most Senators probably aren't), you surely know that America is nowhere near perfect competition - mostly due to Congress's insistence on legislating inefficiency.
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Wouldn't have that problem if drugs were decriminalized.
We wouldn't have that problem if drugs were safe to the users and those around them. (But that's for another thread now, isn't it?)
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Originally posted by Tarmac
What does paying cash have to do with illegal immigration reform?
How does perfect competition relate to this argument? If you're familiar with the concept (and most Senators probably aren't), you surely know that America is nowhere near perfect competition - mostly due to Congress's insistence on legislating inefficiency.
Cash is what farmers use to pay illegals immigrants. Paying by check leaves a more obvious trail.
Perfect competition as it applies to agricultural goods in general, not America. The farmers don't have a lot of wiggle room on the production side of the market. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that produce fits within the rules.
- low profit margin
- low prices
- non-differentiated products
- no real brand names
- price is set by competition
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^^^^^^^^
More excuses.
In your example, not only must we subsidize illegals by allowing them to work here without paying taxes, whilst still taking FULL advantage of all the perks of being a LEGAL CITIZEN, but we are subsidizing farmers TWICE, since they get regular subsidies, AND we subsidize their cheap labor FOR them. Bravo Sierra, pure and simple. It is inexcusable. I WAS a farmer (still am if you count my mother-in-law's horse farm), and even I don't believe in farm subsidies. Stop all the subsidizing and let the market play out, we'll ALL be better off in the long run.
In fact, stop subsidizing EVERYTHING, especially illegal aliens and the leaches on society who can work and provide but won't because the public dole makes it easy and comfortable NOT to work and be self sufficient.
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Most illegals do landscaping and carpentry anyway.
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Just one note, not sure how far you are going to get calling then "beaners". With the PC police roaming you can never be too sure.
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I keep telling you all the only logical answer is to make Mexico our 51st state.
Its a win win situation for everyone.
Yes there would be imediate costs.
But the longterm benifits would far outweigh the costs
Let the Donald Trump types in and within 15 years it would become the next great vacation/retirement state.
Not to mention it has a wealth of undeveloped natural resources to be exploited
And a quick look at the map shows the added benifit of reducing our borders by more then a few miles
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Originally posted by NattyIced
Most illegals do landscaping and carpentry anyway.
I thought they all worked for "United Fruit" Picking strawberries ;)
(Wondering how many people will get that)
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My solution is and allways has been...
One year mandatory jail term for anyone who hires an illegal alien.
You wouldn't even need a border after that. Arrest the first couple dozen trophy wives hiring maids and landscapers and roofer contractors and the rest of the cowardly employers would avoid illegals like the plague..
no work... no point in coming here illegaly
lazs
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<--Immigrant, from Romania
I came in Canada , looking for better life 8 years ago, legal, paying a lawer to prep my paperwork , i could speak french/english at acceptable level of conversation before i came here,(i know my spell sux, but still working on it,lol), and i had to wait 3 years in line ,
I can make it ,Why others can't follow the rules ? !
Here the goverment accept 250-300 000 immigrants /year, i think is a smart balance with what economy can swallow/create jobs and other services, without affecting the quality of life of the other citizens,
Watching the news/CNN, the debate in US, i was thinking at Lou Dobbs as your best choice for next elections. That guy hits the nail in the head !
I read about Mexican economy , they have #1 source of revenue / (more than in oil industry), the $ coming from the mexicans working in US, legal or not. Soo, first they take, maybe give later,
Watch below!
imop , looks like a poor family trying to adopt kids, not 1 or 2 but the whole kindergarten ,(12 milions) !
---------------------------------------------
"U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 10 Apr 2006 at 01:26:24 PM GMT is:
$ 8401 095 293 770 38
The estimated population of the United States is 299,012,200
so each citizen's share of this debt is $28,095.90.
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$2.44 billion per day since September 30, 2005! "
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
^^^^^^^^
More excuses.
In your example, not only must we subsidize illegals by allowing them to work here without paying taxes, whilst still taking FULL advantage of all the perks of being a LEGAL CITIZEN, but we are subsidizing farmers TWICE, since they get regular subsidies, AND we subsidize their cheap labor FOR them. Bravo Sierra, pure and simple. It is inexcusable. I WAS a farmer (still am if you count my mother-in-law's horse farm), and even I don't believe in farm subsidies. Stop all the subsidizing and let the market play out, we'll ALL be better off in the long run.
In fact, stop subsidizing EVERYTHING, especially illegal aliens and the leaches on society who can work and provide but won't because the public dole makes it easy and comfortable NOT to work and be self sufficient.
I'm not sure... are farmers subsidized in California and Texas?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I keep telling you all the only logical answer is to make Mexico our 51st state.
Its a win win situation for everyone.
Yes there would be imediate costs.
But the longterm benifits would far outweigh the costs
Let the Donald Trump types in and within 15 years it would become the next great vacation/retirement state.
Not to mention it has a wealth of undeveloped natural resources to be exploited
And a quick look at the map shows the added benifit of reducing our borders by more then a few miles
That works for me
We could call texico
What we need to do is funnel all these people protesting south to the border, and then make them re-enter the right way. No US ID, no entry into the US.
As for amnesty for "Illegal" aliens, NO ! They are "Illegal" which means they broke the law.
Give them one chance to do it right.
1. Register as an "Illegal" alien.
2. Go back to Mexico and enter the immigration process.
3. IF you have registered as an "illegal" then, maybe you get a Temp worker card, which would let you enter the US on a "temporary" basis, working and paying taxes as your application works it's way thru the BS that is goverment red tape.
4. While your in the US, you learn english on your own time and at your own expense.
5.After the 5 years ( or whatever it is) goes by, you can go take your citizenship test.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'm not sure... are farmers subsidized in California and Texas?
Farm subsidies are usually Federal, so I assume that California and Texas get their piece of the pork.
Originally posted by ghi
<--Immigrant, from Romania
I came in Canada , looking for better life 8 years ago, legal, paying a lawer to prep my paperwork , i could speak french/english at acceptable level of conversation before i came here,(i know my spell sux, but still working on it,lol), and i had to wait 3 years in line ,
I can make it ,Why others can't follow the rules ? !
People like GHI are the main reason that I am deadset against any form of amnesty, errr, "path to citizenship" for illegals. There are literally millions of people all over the world who would like to come here but are doing so the legal way - by applying for visas and citizenship through their embassies and by working to learn English on their own. The protesters in the street seem to think that since they've cut in line, they have a "right" to be sent to the front of the legal immigration process - ahead of plenty of immigrants who have been going through proper channels, many for decades. A "path to citizenship" (amnesty) is an insult to our own system, our American belief in fair play, and a slap in the face to those millions of people to whom the idea of coming to America is a goal to be worked a lifetime for.
Get the lawbreakers out of my country. Heavily fine or imprision those that employ them. Deport those who are arrested, ticketed, or pulled over for anything by local cops. Word will get around that there is no work and that the police do not turn a blind eye anymore. Then those that want their "path to citizenship" can get in line, just like everybody else.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Farm subsidies are usually Federal, so I assume that California and Texas get their piece of the pork.
True... but it usually depends on the type of crop.
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Originally posted by Nash
Okay, and the reason they haven't done anything about illegal immigration last year, the year before that, the year before that, the year before that, the year before that, and the year before that was because of what? The paralyzing grip of the 2006 congressional elections?
Seems like very other year I have to vote for somebody running for congress.
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but who would pick the strawberries? :)
why are the politicains worried? illegals can't vote .. and the legals should want to see the illegals get the boot just like the rest of us do
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There are 280 million legal citizens of this country. They are the ones carrying the burden of 20 million illegal immigrants. Oh, it's a great benefit for illegal employers. But don't you dare suggest that it is a benefit to working men and women, who are watching $200 billion of wages disappear every year because of illegal immigration. They're paying for their health care. They're paying for their children in schools that are overcrowded. We are failing the people who built this country, the American middle-class. Don't tell me how important illegal immigration is, because it's utter nonsense.
Said by Lou Dobbs, whom I always thought was somewhat a leftist
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I agree with Lou on this issue.
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Partial solution - NEVER vote for the incumbent congressman. Always vote for the new guy.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'm not sure... are farmers subsidized in California and Texas?
Sure they are. You know that vast area of California that was irrigated decades ago? That, for example, is a major subsidization. It still doesn't pay for itself. There is serious subsidization of farming in every state.
Hey, I know farmers, some of my best friends are farmers. But there's a lot of them drawing huge subsidies, and a lot of them using illegals for labor. We don't owe them the subsidies OR the use of low priced labor everyone else subsidizes. Now the farmers I know around here don't use them, they are family run farms.
Around here we have them in construction and landscaping. And the price of having a home built or landscaping is going UP, not down. We have serious crime issues with illegals. We have them driving drunk and unlicensed, and commiting felonies. So we're paying higher prices for work being done, PLUS we're subsidizing the existence of the illegals, and putting up with their crime. So tell me again where the upside to all of that is.
Not to mention the pay scale for the local skilled labor residents in construction and landscaping is being dragged down. How would you like to have your pay scale dragged down AND have to pay for all of the services the illegal alien who is dragging your pay scale down is using? Sound fair?
My paternal grandfather was a LEGAL immigrant from Germany in the late 1800's. I'm all for LEGAL immigration. But allowing illegal aliens to become citizens as a reward for committing an illegal act is WRONG. Any way you look at it.
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until we have the will to imprison those who are really causing the problem there can be no solution...
We need to make mandatory sentances for employers who hire illegals...
A 12' wall on the border will just cause a rise in the sales of 13' ladders.
You can't blame the illegals... they are getting a mixed message... we tell them it is illegal for them to come here and work but as soon as they get here......... So called "Americans" hire them.
The rest of us aren't much better... when we have work done we should ask to see the contractors W4's. You can't blame Wallmart for hiring illegals if you do the same.
lazs