Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 96Delta on April 11, 2006, 12:56:31 PM
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Now, here we go. :cool:
I'm going to start a serious thread to discuss the
severely flawed and universally maligned collision
model.
Here's the quiz:
1) In the series of pictures below, who died following the collision and
why?
(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/forum/disregard_this_post.gif)
MY PROPOSAL
Make all H2H air-to-air collisions with aircraft (except debris) result in
catastrophic damage that results in the crash of both planes.
After all, I don't think that ANY plane involved in a H2H collision
(as most are in the MA) would be airworthy post impact.
EDITED:
Collision Threads
Collision modeling
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163519
Collisions
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166940
collision messages?
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167066
Rams
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168001
Aces High uses a flip a coin method for collison
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171149
HiTech, couple of questions on collisions
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172837
Fix The Collisions In Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172820
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its nothing to do with H2H muppet!
it's a setting for the admin. the host of the room you were in didnt turn enemy collisions on. it's under flightmodeflags IIRC
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Originally posted by Pooface
its nothing to do with H2H muppet!
it's a setting for the admin. the host of the room you were in didnt turn enemy collisions on. it's under flightmodeflags IIRC
Wrong.
Collisions were enabled.
One of us died following this collision that involved me and SkatSr.
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I died! Yeah, I know I wasn't involved in the collision itself, but I'm sure I took the damage, because that's how my luck always goes. :D
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lol sax
and delta, it's just an odd collision. and again, what is with you and hoing? especially 262's that's really stupid
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probably you died since you saw the collision...
Lets see some screen shots from skatsr's film. AKAIK - Skasr couldve been 50 feet above / below you on his view of the world.
BTW try a seach on "collision"...... report your findings summerized here when you're done. :)
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Please do some reading before starting this topic again. Just the fact that you believe the pictures have anything to do with the way the model works, tells me you do not understand the collision model works.
And what you missunderand most is that if the other plane would also show the film , you would not have the same pictures.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
probably you died since you saw the collision...
Lets see some screen shots from skatsr's film. AKAIK - Skasr couldve been 50 feet obove / below you on his view of the world.
BINGO....WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
The collsion modle is maligned because most of the whiners dont bother to understand it. Please do a search, 96...if you think the toolshedder vs furballer horse is long dead, you should see how many threads this question has gone through!!
Bottom line: your suggestion would be disastrous. Imagine that you broke away in your 262, preventing the collsion on your front end...but Skat didnt, and the delay built into the internet caused his front end to not see your break till after he passed the collision point. Now imagine he kept going, and so collides with your 262 on his front end.
With your suggestion, YOU LOSE YOUR 262 EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDNT COLLIDE AT ALL.
There is no way around the delay, unless you have a faster-than-light transmission system in your back pocket. Barring that, HTC's solution is the fairest possible
Complaining about colliding wiht someone is exactly the same as yelling, "Every time I poke my eye with this stick it hurts!!' Answer: DOnt do it!
If you dont hit him on your front end, you wont die. Period.
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I understand wht you are saing Hitech and you are correct,
I have no idea how the collision models works.
People have repoeted that if you yank your joystick just
prior to a collision that you will survive the impact and
your opponet will not. Is that true?
But my basic observation is this. Whatever the collision
model is, should one plane in a H2H collision survive
intact and remain in fighting trim when the other
loses a wing and dies? It seems to me that any
collision of that nature would result in both planes
being unflyable.
Put another way, if a collision between 2 planes is
bad enough to send one hurtling to the ground,
how can the other plane still be flying? Shouldn't
both be mortally wounded?
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Originally posted by Simaril
BINGO....WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
The collsion modle is maligned because most of the whiners dont bother to understand it. Please do a search, 96...if you think the toolshedder vs furballer horse is long dead, you should see how many threads this question has gone through!!
Bottom line: your suggestion would be disastrous. Imagine that you broke away in your 262, preventing the collsion on your front end...but Skat didnt, and the delay built into the internet caused his front end to not see your break till after he passed the collision point. Now imagine he kept going, and so collides with your 262 on his front end.
With your suggestion, YOU LOSE YOUR 262 EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDNT COLLIDE AT ALL.
There is no way around the delay, unless you have a faster-than-light transmission system in your back pocket. Barring that, HTC's solution is the fairest possible
Complaining about colliding wiht someone is exactly the same as yelling, "Every time I poke my eye with this stick it hurts!!' Answer: DOnt do it!
If you dont hit him on your front end, you wont die. Period.
Maybe I'm just confused.
Hmmm, let me try and rephrase.
If the system reports that you have collided with so and so
then the impact has occurred. My question is why does one
plane suffer significantly more damage than the other?
Please bear in mind that I'm talking about a head-on
collision here. Not a glancing blow.
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Wrong.
Collisions were enabled.
One of us died following this collision that involved me and SkatSr.
One of you was smart enought to avoid collision on his FE
The other was victim of darwin.
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96, you have to realize something VERY important: the game is NOT played on the system, its played on your front end, your computer. Imagine that AH was a boxed sim -- just that the "AI" was provided by volunteers all over the world. The "System" just routes the other players information, and keeps score.
SO when you see a plane, you're really seeing where it was a second or more ago. At 400 mph, that can be a big difference! To make it more complicated, on HIS computer, your plane is a second behind its position on YOUR computer! To balance out the lag everybody sees, whether they're a mile from HTC or halfway around the world, the only solution is to have the game played as it is, on your computer.
That means when you collide, the other guy may never have come within 50 feet of you. He doesnt take damage because he never collided.
If that doiesnt help enough, please consider the seearch button above. The problem has been discussed endlessly. In fact, search "collision" with user id "Hitech" -- i remember he had a post where he linked past discussions. Maybe it was skuzzy, but I think HT
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Originally posted by 96Delta
People have repoeted that if you yank your joystick just
prior to a collision that you will survive the impact and
your opponet will not. Is that true?
If you pull on your stick, your plane will change direction, and you will not have a collision. Your assumption in the question is false .
What you need to understand is that what you see happen , is not what the other person sees. One person sees the planes clearly miss eachother , and the other sees somthing like your screen shots. This basic fact can not be changed.
And for more detailed descriptions search for some of my other explinations.
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Thanks Hitech...I had no idea that this had been
discussed before and at length so I won't contribute
any more to rehashing an old discussion here.
But let me quickly summarize one question:
Let me see if I understand this.
Are you telling me that when I receive a collision message
that the other pilot may not see a collision message? Only
one of us registers a collision?
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wrong buitton
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If you see the message "You have collided" your front end sends to the other guy, "96Delta collided with you"
If the other guy collides you will recieve the message "Soandso Colieded with you" And if you do not see the message "You have collided" Then you missed him.
HiTech
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There's still a lot of talk in the arena about guys seeing the "Soandso collided with you" message, and yet THEY were the ones tumbling out of the sky while the guy who did the colliding flies off without a scratch. I understand that it's not how the model is supposed to work, but what IS happening?
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Saxman, this could be due to the other guy colliding guns blazing. He might simply have shot you.
I had a classic such situation a while ago - not sure if i caught it in film. I had a P47 coming at my HMk1 head on, and since i was too slow from fighting another guy, i couldnt properly AVOID him. Result: He collided with me, dying; I didnt collide, but flew away heavily damaged since hed been guns blazing from d100 (i just caught the muzzle flashes in passing). His damage resulted from collision, mine from plain old bullets.
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Schatzi hit it right to the wood in one stroke.
Don't fly so close, and you won't collide, its THAT simple.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Saxman, this could be due to the other guy colliding guns blazing. He might simply have shot you.
I had a classic such situation a while ago - not sure if i caught it in film. I had a P47 coming at my HMk1 head on, and since i was too slow from fighting another guy, i couldnt properly AVOID him. Result: He collided with me, dying; I didnt collide, but flew away heavily damaged since hed been guns blazing from d100 (i just caught the muzzle flashes in passing). His damage resulted from collision, mine from plain old bullets.
Something similar...
I shot the tail off a 109 from about d200 . The 109 does the nose up airbrake float to the ground deal. Well since I was going at about 300mph ,I couldn't avoid the floating wreckage. I get the you have collided with xxxx. Then of course the obligatory 200 sob story. Guess what not all rams are intentional, get over it. Actually I think it would be very hard to ram a plane intentionally and do damage.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Saxman
There's still a lot of talk in the arena about guys seeing the "Soandso collided with you" message, and yet THEY were the ones tumbling out of the sky while the guy who did the colliding flies off without a scratch. I understand that it's not how the model is supposed to work, but what IS happening?
I'd venture a guess that situations like you describe can be attributed to gun damage, as has been mentioned, and additionally that while a plane may appear undamaged, it did actually take damage. I've lost everything from the tailwheel to entire wings. A wing if obvious; tailwheels, guns, or gear, not so much so.
And, as has been proven many times in many different scenarios, what folks claim happens in the heat of the moment isn't always what actually happens.