Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nash on April 13, 2006, 01:28:16 AM
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1. Powell speaks his mind:
"I queried Powell at a reception following a talk he gave in Los Angeles on Monday. Pointing out that the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate showed that his State Department had gotten it right on the nonexistent Iraq nuclear threat, I asked why did the president ignore that wisdom in his stated case for the invasion?
"The CIA was pushing the aluminum tube argument heavily and Cheney went with that instead of what our guys wrote," Powell said. And the Niger reference in Bush's State of the Union speech? "That was a big mistake," he said. "It should never have been in the speech. I didn't need Wilson to tell me that there wasn't a Niger connection. He didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I never believed it."
2. Generals revolt:
The retired commander of key forces in Iraq called yesterday for Donald H. Rumsfeld to step down, joining several other former top military commanders who have harshly criticized the defense secretary's authoritarian style for making the military's job more difficult.
Other retired generals said they think it is unlikely that the denunciations of Rumsfeld and his aides will cease.
3. Weapons of Mass Deception:
On May 29, 2003, 50 days after the fall of Baghdad, President Bush proclaimed a fresh victory for his administration in Iraq: Two small trailers captured by U.S. and Kurdish troops had turned out to be long-sought mobile "biological laboratories." He declared, "We have found the weapons of mass destruction."
The claim, repeated by top administration officials for months afterward, was hailed at the time as a vindication of the decision to go to war. But even as Bush spoke, U.S. intelligence officials possessed powerful evidence that it was not true.
4. The War on Easter:
"Last night, Bill O’Reilly invited on Newsweek’s John Meacham to discuss the brewing ‘war on Easter.’
O’REILLY: "Although some left-wingers in the media deny it, we have documented a number of cases where Christian holidays like Christmas and Easter have been attacked by secular interests. Lawsuits and corporate policies have proved this point over and over again.
5. Whoah, Mexico.
Immigrant Bill Fallout May Hurt House GOP
"Yesterday, House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) issued a joint statement seeking to deflect blame for the harshest provisions of the House bill toward the Democrats, who they said showed a lack of compassion. "It remains our intent to produce a strong border security bill that will not make unlawful presence in the United States a felony," Hastert and Frist said.
"There was political calculation that they could make this the wedge issue of 2006 and 2008, but it's not playing out that way," said Rep. Raul M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.). "This has galvanized and energized the Latino community like no other issue I have seen in two decades, and that's going to have electoral consequences."
6. Why does Newt Gingrich hate America?
Newt Gingrich, the former Republican Speaker of the House, told students and faculty at the University of South Dakota Monday that the United States should pull out of Iraq and leave a small force there, just as it did post-war in Korea and Germany.
"It was an enormous mistake for us to try to occupy that country after June of 2003," Gingrich said during a question-and-answer session at the school. "We have to pull back, and we have to recognize it."
7. Protect Your Brand.
Conservative activist Grover Norquist is seeking a trademark on "K Street Project," saying Democrats and Majority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) have wrongfully acquired the term to describe unethical practices that have nothing to do with his organization.
"Some people say Kleenex when they mean tissue," Norquist said. "We will jealously guard the real phrasing the way Kleenex and Coca-Cola do. We will sue anyone who says it wrong and make lots of money."
8. Drip, drip drip...
A senior administration official confirmed for the first time on Sunday that President Bush had ordered the declassification of parts of a prewar intelligence report on Iraq in an effort to rebut critics who said the administration had exaggerated the nuclear threat posed by Saddam Hussein.
Confirmation that Mr. Bush ordered the declassification was published late Saturday by The Associated Press, which quoted "an attorney knowledgeable about the case." Once it appeared, the administration official was willing to confirm its details.
9. Mission Accomplished:
36 soldiers dead over the last 12 days.
10. Because I'm free.... free fallin'
Bush at 36%. "These numbers are scary. We've lost every advantage we've ever had," GOP pollster Tony Fabrizio said.
11. Fire me.
"I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action." - Bush
"Court papers filed late Wednesday night by Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald, in the perjury case of former White House official I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, implicate Bush as knowing about efforts to disseminate sensitive information - and also as orchestrating them."
You want to know what gets me irked? It's the above. It's the last 7 days, and the 7 days before that, and the 7 days in front of us.... extending as far in both directions as the eye can see.
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This may seem selfish but so be it. This is way I don't overly concern myself with politics anymore. It was fun when I was much younger. But looking at the big picture going back over 2,000 years it's not really that much different nor will it change in the foreseeable future. The Internet sure has sped up information dissemination but when you get right down to it it's really status quo.
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"I think that hope reflects the state of our soul rather than the circumstances that surround our lives. So hope is not the equivalent of optimism. Its opposite is not pessimism but despair. So I'm always hopeful. Hope is about keeping the faith despite the evidence so that the evidence has a chance of changing.
Hope criticizes what is, hopelessness rationalizes it. Hope resists, hopelessness adapts."
Rev. William Sloane Coffin, (June 1, 1924 - April 12, 2006)
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That's what I admire about you Nash, your sleeve has everything on it for all to see. <-----definitely not a non-sequitur.
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You want bad approval ratings? Check out my state's Governor, Bob Taft. This guy positively makes Bush look good by comparison. The moral of the story, Nash, is that no matter how bad you think it is--it could be worse.
J_A_B
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Nash, go fishing or something. Find something to enjoy and be happy about. :)
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...12. Butterfingered Gun Shoots Self In Own Foot
"For how we played tonight -- the 19 turnovers -- to still be in the game for the last shot, we couldn't have asked for more, you know, a better opportunity to win the game" said Arenas, who finished with 25 points on 9-of-22 shooting but also had six turnovers. "I was just careless with the pump fake and T.J. Ford snatched the ball from me."
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I'm with Nash on this... the snowball situation has degraded into an avalanche. I can't recall when I've been so damn disgusted with politics, politicians, society, religion, nationalisim and government.
I was thinking I'm just nuts.
Now I'm thinking that Nash and I are both nuts. And since Nash and I often wind up at opposite ends of the ping pong table of ideas and meanings I'm again disconcerted. We'd no doubt disagree on cause and cure.. but I gotta agree that the 'crazy years' have indeed begun.
And I'm looking around at all the heads in the sand... all I see is bellybutton holes and elbows... and some of 'em are wondering why Nash is NOT burying his head in the sand.
I'm not sticking my head in the sand either, Nash. I have cats. I know what they do to sandboxes.
;)
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There is one difference hang.... Nash thinks that more government by the "right" people like say.... oh... last time, it was kerrie...
that more and more government by lefties is allright. That government is not bad... just government that doesn't lean left.
You and I may both agree with nash on the fact that the current government is not good but....
I think me and you agree that having a liberal democrat running things would be worse. that is where the rift with nash starts and it only gets wider from there.
so yes... I agree that the government today could be less powerful and has a lot of corruption but...
I thank god that we don't still have the last president still running things or that we don't have any one that nash might pick for us.
I also agree with nash that mean dogs bite but...that's not enough to call him comrade.
lazs
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Newt Gingrich... there's a blast from the past.
Saw him in an interview a month or so ago. I can remember when he seemed like the radical right. Nowadays, he sounds like a moderate. I'm not certain it was Gingrich that changed or the party that moved.
It's a shame he won't run for president. I think I'd vote for him.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I also agree with nash that mean dogs bite but...that's not enough to call him comrade.
lazs
"Non, Monsouir... thet is NOT my dog."
;)
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No different than 5 years ago, 10 yrs ago & probably no different that 5 years in the future. Sure, the headlines will change, but you can always pull something bad from the news on any given day.
Not called burying head in sand, it is a matter of how individuals choose to preceive. Some people like to look around and constantly see how bad things are. Others might look at each day as opportunity to make it best day ever, each & every day.
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I'm not a fan of Newt, but at least he's got some sense.
GOP in Danger of Losing Control of Congress, Gingrich Says (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0401-04.htm)
"They are seen by the country as being in charge of a government that can't function," he told Knight Ridder editors and reporters in a wide-ranging luncheon interview. "We could lose control this fall."
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Nash - Trying to dig up some dirt for the 2006 elections? True, I wish there were some better choices. What I really wish for are some Republicans with some balls who still stomp the Democrats (Wishful Thinking – I know). No matter how you size it up the Democrats are simply WEAK!
Weak on Illegal Immigration.
Weak on the War on Terror.
Weak on Homeland Security.
Weak on Social Security Reform.
And the list goes on. I’m pissed at the Republicans too but I will never pull the lever for a Democrat because they are and will always be Weak. It’s in their nature, they can’t help it.
By the way you left out "Hurricane Katrina - It was all Bush's fault."
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NASH AND HANG HATE BOOSH.
so what else is new?
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I voted for him.
Twice.
I guess I'm a chump.
Oh, well.
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Originally posted by EN4CER
No matter how you size it up the Democrats are simply WEAK!
Weak on Illegal Immigration.
Weak on the War on Terror.
Weak on Homeland Security.
Weak on Social Security Reform.
And the list goes on. By the way you left out "Hurricane Katrina - It was all Bush's fault."
Elaborate please. How are they weak on everything? Are they suggesting letting anyone walk onto an airplane with out security checks? Have they shut down DHS? Have they borrowed every cent from SS and let old people starve? All this "Only Republicans know what they are doing" rant is getting old.
I just watched Michael Brown (you remember, FEMA, Katrina, New Orleans, ect.) on the Colbert Report. He made a pretty convincing argument that it was bungling (let's call it weak leadership) by this administration that was responsable for the whole mess after Katrina.
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More convincing than Louis Farrakhan?
(Ya know, what's scary is that I work with a guy who has bought into that tripe hook, line and sinker...and he votes.)
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The only political party worse than the republicans at this point is the democrats...
One has no choice but to vote for republicans or a democrat might get in.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
The only political party worse than the republicans at this point is the democrats...
One has no choice but to vote for republicans or a democrat might get in.
lazs
My point exactly - Thank you Lazs. :aok
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Originally posted by rpm
I just watched Michael Brown (you remember, FEMA, Katrina, New Orleans, ect.) on the Colbert Report.
Isn't the Colbert Report on Comedy Central?
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Originally posted by lazs2
The only political party worse than the republicans at this point is the democrats...
One has no choice but to vote for republicans or a democrat might get in.
lazs
In this day and age, I see little difference in the two parties.
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Originally posted by Sandman
In this day and age, I see little difference in the two parties.
There is still a slight difference on the gun controll front Sandy.
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Originally posted by rpm
Have they borrowed every cent from SS and let old people starve?
sorry (not really) to bust your balloon but i get SS and i'm not "starving".
also "borrowed" means you have to pay it back. and i do mean YOU.
every month my good ol uncle sammy deposits money in my bank. Y'all keep work'n hard now.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
There is still a slight difference on the gun controll front Sandy.
The Republicans have controlled the White House and the Congress for how many years?
If they we're truly interested in changing the status quo, they would. As it is now, they seem quite content to leave things as they are and blame the Democrats.
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Originally posted by Sandman
The Republicans have controlled the White House and the Congress for how many years?
If they we're truly interested in changing the status quo, they would. As it is now, they seem quite content to leave things as they are and blame the Democrats.
Sure, true, but they have not put anything new on the books, and some notable dems keep pushing for a renewed and expanded assault rifle ban, etc.
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I don't believe there is 1 elected official in the country , from your local Rep. to the president of the U.S that gives 2 cents for the American people as a whole. Only what can get them elected and what can keep them elected.
Up until about a year ago I paid attention to things in the news. When my Mom got really sick and started to fade , I didn't have time for it. And you know what? I learned that things in the news, the bad things that are reported and all the crap that is spilled out to us on a daily basis is NOTHING. My family. Thats what means the world to me.
IRAQ? I bought into it. I think we have done WAY WAY more good than bad there. I believe the world IS better for what has happened there. The troops have my undying support. As a VET I understand some of what they are facing. All be it on a smaller scale.
IRAN? NUKES? could care less. Who they gonna shoot at? ME? Doubt it. I'm sure TEXAS isn't on the BIG list of important places to hit. Is it a concern? Guesss it should be , but I really can't get all shook up over it.
Katrina?? ROFLMBO. Blame the POTUS and his admin. Right. Lets see , they had like 5 - 6 days warning on every national news station in the US warning em? And I am supposed to feel sorry for them? NO WAY. Oh I hjear the "Some people couldn't leave" bit. B.C.. It wasn't the FEDERAL governments fault that 1000's stayed there and then had to reap what they got. Its all about I screwed up and Im gonna blame someone else for my stupidity. The LOCAL and STATE governments are the REAL blame. Not the POTUS. But...stupid people can't [possibly take the blame for being that way now can they.
Immagration? WTH do I care about that either. Thier here illeagally and gonna stay here and get a free handout. Free pass. Free healthcare. No taxes. Does it affect me? Prolly. But the people I elected and put into power aren't going to do a DANG thing about it or for me. SO , screw em. When they lose the next election cause they let 12million aliens come here and vote they deserve what they get. I'll still go to work , eran a living for my family and play a lil golf here and there.
Now some may say..."RedTop , thats having your head in the sand" I say Nope.....Thats the politicians and leadership of this nation having the heads up there butts and not having the balls to do the right things by the very people they CLAIMED they wanted to help.
Screw the politicians and all the friggin stand for.
Screw the Media for never telling me and mine the truth.
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i'm disconnecting my phone & cable and stopping the mail.
i don't wanna hear bad news either.
lets all boycott politics and the media.
that way they'll just screw each other and leave us alone.
yyyAAAA!
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Originally posted by VOR
Nash, go fishing or something. Find something to enjoy and be happy about. :)
He IS fishing.
Cant you tell?
Im IN
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Hey Nash.....just out curosity but have you seen the congress aproval ratings lately?
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Originally posted by EN4CER
Isn't the Colbert Report on Comedy Central?
Yes it is. Have you seen the show? Did you watch the interview? Get back to me when you have.
Originally posted by john9001
sorry (not really) to bust your balloon but i get SS and i'm not "starving".
also "borrowed" means you have to pay it back. and i do mean YOU.
every month my good ol uncle sammy deposits money in my bank. Y'all keep work'n hard now.
Thank you for proving my point for me, John.
Originally posted by Gunslinger
just out curosity but have you seen the congressional approval ratings lately?
Have you seen the Presidential approval ratings?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Hey Nash.....just out curosity but have you seen the congress aproval ratings lately?
Not sure of the House, but here's the Senate (http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/100USSenator060323Net.htm).
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lol, one of my senators is named "gordon"
wtf who let a canadian into congress?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Hey Nash.....just out curosity but have you seen the congress aproval ratings lately?
What do you think?
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Yes RPM I can clearly read in Nash's post the presidential approval ratings. Personally I agree with the the asessment. Thanks for the link Sandy, it looks like the sentat's are in the tank as well. Hmmmm can you say TREND?
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term limits.
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Isn't the Colbert Report on Comedy Central?
reply:
Yes it is. Have you seen the show? Did you watch the interview? Get back to me when you have.
Sad comment on the state of U.S. mass media when you have to turn to Comedy Central for News.
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_colbert_report/videos/celebrity_interviews/index.jhtml
Here you go .... middle of the page.
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I am with RedTop. After watching this board for seven years, I really think I am better off not allowing the exploitive media into my life. They do not report news, as far as I am concerned. They manipulate the events to get the best ratings, which is not *news reporting* in my book.
The people of this country (and others for all I know) have accepted lieing, cheating, stealing, bribery, and other such ilk as acceptable behavior for the career choice of politician. I find that general attitude to be reprehensible. Every time I read, "it was not who to vote for, but who to vote against", I just cringe. We have no one to blame, but ourselves for letting control of our country fall into such hands.
I also cringe when I see people espousing what a politician says as it is some sort of fact. I really have to shake my head and wonder where this person has been living.
There are solutions to these problems, but they will never happen. I love my country, but I hate how the politicians have misrepresented themselves to us and the world.
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Time to vote outside the box.
The only way to get their attention is with a credible third party showing.
I can't think of another or even "better" way to change the behavior of the incumbents.
Start at the local city council level and work right on up to the top.
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Trade one crook for another. The problem is the people. The politicians do what they do so they can get elected. People do not want to hear the truth. They want to be told what they want to hear.
Until that issue is cleared up, nothing will change. No matter what party is elected, they are all cut from the same cloth.
An honest person will never get elected. It just will not happen.
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Vote Progressive....
Go Bernie! :D
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Generally speaking, Skuzzy, third party candidates are people who are also fed up with the crooks.
Another way of looking at it is that if "the people" never have a choice for "change", change will never happen.
You have to admit, a Libertarian President would be a "change".
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yah.. but Nader? Jeeeze....
Whups.. a new Guy.. Badnarik?
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I agree it would be a change, but I do not see it as being a significant change. It is still a politician who had to lie to get elected. If he/she doe snot lie, there is not a snowballs chance in heck they would get elected.
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Well, the question is "responsiveness".
If we keep giving the "old regulars" a free pass and a full time job with luxurious retirement WITHOUT having to pay attention to the needs, requests and desires of their constitutents.... well, it'll only get worse.
OTOH, if we replace all the politicians that AREN'T listening, at least we have a chance of getting a few that DO listen.
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Sort of the, "throw enough crap against the wall and some of it will stick" approach, eh?
I hear what you are saying, and while I think there are better solutions, there probably is not a better solution which the masses *may* go for. Again, most people do not want the truth, which I beleive to be the basis of the overall problem.
Heck, I would like to see the system modified based on some type of point system, where the poiliticians are awarded points for accomplishing what they *promise* at election time, and remove points for not acheiving said promises. If you are 'zero' points, then you cannot run for office at the next election. While a simplistic suggestion, I hope the idea is worth discussion. It goes to accountability, which is another sore point with me. They aren't.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I hear what you are saying, and while I think there are better solutions, there probably is not a better solution which the masses *may* go for. Again, most people do not want the truth, which I beleive to be the basis of the overall problem.
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Well, we also restrained by the Constitution. Hanging them at the end of their term if they haven't made good on their promises is an attractive option but I don't think that's allowed. ;)
It goes to accountability, which is another sore point with me. They aren't.
Indeed. The way things are currently set up, though, is that they get "held accountable" at re-election time.
That's the system and I don't think it's going to change.
So, within that system, what are our options? Well, we can't hang 'em, so we just have to boot them out of office and try to find one that has gotten the word.
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No, at the end of thier term the masses do not hold the person accountable. That is the problem. They lied to get elected, do what they want, lie again to get elected, do what they want, ad infinitum.
I am not talking about hanging them. I am talking about holding them accountable, or at least a way to hold them accountable where they cannot lie thier way out of it.
I am all for 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', but the damn thing is busted all to heck. Screw what is in place. It is not working. Change it. Of course, that will not happen either.
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I just don't see any way out. This generation is scared to death of the government and the only way we can vote is to vote for a republican...
sure... we can protest vote some worthless third party guy who doesn't stand a chance but....
All that does is allow a liberal socialist democrat in.... no republican can be as bad as all that.
Nash would love to see a liberal socialist US so that it would be as screwed up as his country.
lazs
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If a serious third party did grab enough congressional seats, and it would only take a few seats to get attention, then if nothing else, the other two parties would have to take notice and alter their behavior somewhat. I know it would only be temporary, but the sting from the slap can linger.
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Even if a third party becomes successful and manages go get it's foot in the door, the stampede from both sides of the aisle screaming, "Yeah, I was really like that third party before and now I can come out and tell the people what I really think!" would be deafening. And then the third party would be tainted. I am with SCSI on this one, I just don't see a solution anytime soon on the matter so I don't really give a **** either.
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stringer.... how would any third party grab "enough" seats?
If you are dumb enough to vote for democrats then I would say that voting for a third party is a real viable solution.
Everyone else just needs to remember that we can't allow democrats to get in.
There is no hope on the horizon because we will put up with whatever they throw at us.... we stand in our stocking feet at the airport and allow ourselves to be searched...
We allow them to tell us to wear helmets and seatbelts and what kind of firearms we can own....
hell.... if they said that in order to keep people from falling assleep at the wheel..... we all had to pull over every hour of driving and get out and hop up and down on one foot and flap our arms like a chicken...
most of us would ask.....
How high and how long do we do it for?
lazs
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There is absolutely no gaurantee the Republicans would be any better in the regards you mention lazs. Just because they say so, does not make it so.
They are just as much tied to the shoestrings of lobbyists and big money as any other politician. They will say or do whatever it takes to get elected and then do what they want.
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skuzzy... there is no guarentee.... you are correct... there is history tho.
Republican are walking toward totalitarian socialism while democrats are running.
You don't vote for the man.... you vote for the party cause... in the end...on anything you or I might think is important.... they all vote right on down along party lines.... sure... they let a few stray from the pack to make it look good.... so long as they still get the vote they want.
look at immigration and how it is voted on... look at how the repubs and demmos voted on the whole "throw the employer in prison" thing...
The democrats seen it would solve the problem and hunkered down to defeat it.
It isn't a problem to them or anyone who wears the democrat suit. More dumb poor people.... more democrat voters thinking the rich will support em.
This could all change.... either party might go against it's core support groups in order to make things better but....
That is highly unliekly and getting more so every year. Nope... you gotta go with the party who's core supporters share more of your values.
for instance...if you are a gun owner... you have little choice but to vote for republicans. If you are gay or union ... you might find that democrats will give you a bigger piece of everyone elses pie.
If you are a union member who believes in the second amendment then you got a problem.
lazs
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You're right Lazs.....doing nothing at all is the answer.....
I vote issues, not labels........You seem to prefer labels....you seem more intelligent than that...
and to me, I begin my politics at the local level, as that affects my life much more directly than the national level.
And at my local level, you don't have to wear a helmet.......
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One things for shure, dudes. Re-electing the same old incumbents isn't going to change anything.
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Quite true. Although it is getting to the point (for me anyways) where I cannot tell them apart. They all seem to do the same things, year in and year out, regardless of thier names.
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That's why we gotta throw the change-up.
Stick enough Libertarians or other third party candidates in the House and Senate to be the "swing vote" between the two established lazy axe parties.
I can't guarantee it'd be better but it'd be different. Right now, I don't see anything else to try (that would be legal).
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We need a "Let's change America" campaign. One that is run by people, not politicians to push this forward.
Guess I should get the pencil, paper, and stamps back out. I am not convinced it will help, but I am getting tired of the status quo.
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stringer... never once claimed to be bright but I do have normal observation powers.
You try to tell me that both democrats and republicans don't have a platform and an agenda to vote the way the money tells em to.
You vote for democrats and you get all their baggage.... you vote republican and you get all their baggage.
It is just that the democrat baggage is so much more repugnant that even if they have one or two ideas I may think are decent.... I can't allow them to sell me down the river on everything else.
You try to tell me that you can't predict how democrats or republicans (as a group) will vote on something? I thought you were more observant than that.
they vote allmost entirely along party lines and it is more predictable than old faithful.
voteing for an independant is what the weak party of the two allways trys to get the mushheads to do.
They are playing us like a fiddle and we just ask for more....
We keep asking them to "do something" when we should be telling them to shut up and quit meddling.
no.... I do not like republicans.... if they are a shoe in to win I will vote libertarian... But I won't take a chance that another democrat will get in.
lazs
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The Republican party, the unbearable truth, the stoic denial, and the passionate defense.
A perfect example is lazs' clinging to his "Democrats Mean Big Government" meme, while just this month the Republicans broke the all-time spending record, which was set just the month before. And it doesn't matter how you look at it. Go ahead and take Iraq and the DHS out of the equation - the government has ballooned under this administration, showing no signs of letting up.
Now I realize that lazs hates helmets and seatbelts. Fine. But how could such gross incompetency along with policies which are at the very opposite of what he seems to value, be overlooked for such small gains? And what are the gains? The last time I checked, the Republican Executive branch, the Republican Senate and the Republican Congress (along with the Republican dominated Judicial branch) have done exactly nothing about these oppressive seatbelt and helmet laws.
For this (nothing), lazs trades in the looting of the Treasury, a wish-upon-a-star foreign policy that shames a nation, the unnacceptable abridgement of the personal freedoms and rights once protected by the Constitution and valued by the citizens (and the myriad of applicable laws), untold numbers of dead and wounded for the folly of a war of choice & deceit, a cancerous k-street corruption scandal - the fallout of which hasn't even begun to get started, and.... boy, I'm just warming up...
.....for seatbelts and helmets.
The big question is... why does this happen?
Why do people like lazs trade in seatbelt and helmet laws (which Republicans don't touch), for all of the above? It's a fool's bet, and it deeply resembles battered wives syndrome. There are probably as many reasons for this phenomenon as there are hollow excuses for it.
A strange thing happens when recording and mixing music.
The number of tracks you are able to lay down these days is basically limitless. So what you tend to do is to jam the tape so full of tracks that you're guaranteed to have a lot of options come the final mix down. That means 27 vocal takes, 13 different guitar leads, 5 pads, 8 horn parts, 1 glockenspiel, 1 cowbell, 1 gong.
So it's all printed to tape now, and you've got everything that you need to work with. Now for the final mix. Apart from making the instruments sound good together, this involves stripping away all those excess tracks, and keeping only those that make the song come together as envisioned. A funny thing happens, though.
During the mixing process, you have to play back the song literally hundreds and thousands of times. And all those excess tracks? Well, they may be gone, but they're not forgotten. In fact, they leave an imprint on your brain. So while you might have made a decision to cut the glockenspiel many stages ago, you still hear it when you play the song back. In fact, you make many mixing decisions based on the things you hear in a song that have long since been removed from the song, resulting in a final mix that may sound complete to you, but incomplete to someone who wasn't involved in the process.
Ear fatigue is a problem. Because you have to listen to a song so many times during the mixing process, your ears get worn out. Your ability to hear the high and low frequencies gets shot, and you overcompensate on the EQ. So while something may sound deep and full to you on the night you mixed it, the next morning it sounds like an army of kittens trying desperately to cling onto a blackboard.
Ghost notes are a couple of things. They can be sounds less heard than they are felt, as in the soft hitting of the snare in-between the typical 2 and 4, or can be the artificial harmonics that occur when different notes are played together.
The popularity of the song produced by this White House is confounding to me. It's a train wreck of a song. Yes, it's true that only 3~ people in 10 still call up their stations requesting it. But those 3 still cause me an enormous amount of confusion.
It defies typical run-of-the-mill logic. In a way, I think they've invested themselves too much into the production of the song now, that a separation and objective second listen is near impossible. They've internalized it. They're hearing things that aren't there only because they've heard them repeatedly during the rough mix. The high and low frequencies are so shaved off, through repeated listens, that a thud to them sounds like a hiss to everyone else.
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Good lord Nash... what in hell is in the water up there?
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Actually Hang, it's a quite valid metaphor. Basically what he's saying in a one-party way is, "How can you guys keep listening to the same old crappy song AND admit you like it?" That's kind of what I got out of it and I can see, errr, hear his point.
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oh.
ok.
so, I wonder what the **** they put in the water down here?
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Fluoride mostly. It's an idea that has yet find it's way to the UK.
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'Tis lovely but doesn't invalidate Laz's opinion that things would be much worse if the Democrats were writing the song.
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toad stringer skuzzy... you are right... things won't change voting the same old way... but they could change for the worse. Look at all the new gun laws and the new prgrams started by klinton.
Look at how the EPA has grown.. most of the government growth of the Republicans this time is mandated growth of agencies that were set in motion by democrats... you can't pass environmental laws and then not grow the government to enforce em... that is what nash is not copping to here.... Ask him which government agencies grew and why.
Also... taxes rise during democrat regeims...
nash is asking you to vote for democrats not for independants and it is a fools bet. they will drag us down with social programs and immigration.
The republicans voted to punish employers and the democrats against it.
The democrats feel that it takes away opportunity for poor "undocumented immigrants"..... so do I... and that is exactly what has to be done.
Who goes after your guns and cars and won't allow vouchers and takes away your land and appoints commie supreme court justices.... It's the party nash says is your friend..
What "issue" will you vote for that is important enough that you will give up your second amendment rights (which nash hates anyway) and have more and more regulation in your life (to be paid by whatever adminestration is in power)
voteing independant if a democrat can get into power because of it is a total suckers play.... the guy you vote in will laugh his butt off (in private or with other democrats) and then vote right down party lines.
What do democrats have that anyone could want?
lazs
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"The federal government spent nearly $826 billion in fiscal 2003, an increase of $91.5 billion over 2002, said G. William Hoagland, a senior budget and economic aide to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.). Military spending shot up nearly 17 percent, to $407.3 billion, but nonmilitary discretionary spending also far outpaced Bush's limit, rising 8.7 percent, to $418.6 billion.
Much of the increase was driven by war in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as homeland security spending after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. But spending has risen on domestic programs such as transportation and agriculture, as well. Total federal spending -- including non-discretionary entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- reached $2.16 trillion in 2003, a 7.3 percent boost, according to the Congressional Budget Office. "
They left out the EPA who's budget has risen more than 100% due to mandated programs... but.... what are you gonna do about the democat mandated entitlement programs that are driving the cost..
nash's boys made up the entitlements and then said... "go ahead and cut em... I dare ya."
and now nash is blaming the repubicans for not cutting democrat made entitlements?
who is gonna cut your taxes? democrats? LOL...
Nope... I hope we just cut taxes and let the programs fall apart.
The only problem I have with Bush is him not vetoeing any spending.
lazs
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seatbelt and helmet laws are up to the states, the fed govt says cars must have seatbelts, the states say you must use them, two states that i know of have changed their helmet laws, Pennsylvania and Florida say that if you carry accident medical insurance you do not have to wear a helmet.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Newt Gingrich... there's a blast from the past.
Saw him in an interview a month or so ago. I can remember when he seemed like the radical right. Nowadays, he sounds like a moderate. I'm not certain it was Gingrich that changed or the party that moved.
It's a shame he won't run for president. I think I'd vote for him.
Gingrich was never as radical as he was portrayed to be, but he kept supplying sound bytes to that end that Hollywood screen writers would have been hard-pressed to come up with. What he IS, is an incredibly intelligent guy with a PHD in history,--interesting speaker, if ya ever listen to him.
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"nash is asking you to vote for democrats not for independents and it is a fools bet." - lazs
Is that right? Where did I say that? (Take your time, I'm in no rush.)
Lets get this straight, buddy. I never said to not vote for an Independent, but you accuse me of doing it. That must mean that it's a bad thing.
Yet, when the conversation first turned to Independent candidates, you replied:
I just don't see any way out. This generation is scared to death of the government and the only way we can vote is to vote for a republican... sure... we can protest vote some worthless third party guy who doesn't stand a chance but.... All that does is allow a liberal socialist democrat in.... no republican can be as bad as all that.
So to sum up, you - not me - discouraged voting for Independents, and then all of a sudden started blaming me for discouraging it. Heh, rolley-eyes.
Oh - you also said, still in this very thread:
The only political party worse than the republicans at this point is the democrats...
One has no choice but to vote for republicans or a democrat might get in.
.... followed by:
"we can protest vote some worthless third party guy who doesn't stand a chance but.... All that does is allow a liberal socialist democrat in."
In point of fact, most of the stuff you've posted to this thread is rabid nonsensical gobblygook. You would have done better to employ your battered trembling fingers in the service of typing "Mee ho mah bok chung feng," it is that incomprehensible.
I know it pains you to focus on anything other your own selfish little whims, but the world involves much bigger things than some fictional bogeyman bent on taking your precious toys away. I could give a toss about seatbelts. Guns? Trust me lazs, guns are gonna be around long after your great grandchildren have shed this mortal coil.
The telling thing, however, is that while lazs will never have his guns taken from him, that fear will continue to motivate him - and he would sacrifice his country and countrymen before ever letting go of something that will never be asked of him.
The spider monkey lives in the trees of the tropical jungles of South America, have hook-like, narrow and thumbless hands and tiny brains.
In order to catch spider monkeys, hunters in South America simply walk through the jungle and drop heavy containers on the ground. These containers have very a narrow top and a wider bottom. Inside the containers the hunters drop a special kind of nut which is particularly attractive to the monkeys.
Sometime later, the spider monkeys come down from the tops of the trees, smell the nut, but the tops of the containers are so narrow they have a tight squeeze to get their hands inside. Once they grab the nut at the bottom, their fist is too large to remove if through the opening. And the container is too heavy for them to carry.
So instead of letting go of the nut, the monkeys just sit there until the hunters come back, pick them up, and throw them in a bag.
This is the level of lazs' sophistication (excuse the pun) in a nutshell. All wrapped up nice and pretty with a ribbon on top and everything.
Lol... "you will give up your second amendment rights (which nash hates anyway)" - what a joke.
I think .0003% of gun owners may be a little bit.... cuckoo... but the other 99.9997% of them are alright in my books. You're making stuff up so fast and loose at this point that you're a blur of nonsense. It's what you've always done, granted, and it's usually pretty funny, but now it's reaching unintended comedic heights.
Toad said:
'Tis lovely but doesn't invalidate Laz's opinion that things would be much worse if the Democrats were writing the song.
"Invalidate" it? How in the world would one go about invalidating an "opinion." I have no idea. But, lazs certainly has the right to one, absolutely. That sure as hell does not mean that everyone else can't have a laugh about it.
His opinion is: "things would be much worse if the Democrats were writing the song." - which is tantamount to having the "opinion" that Man was created 6 thousand years ago, or the "opinion" that Hussein must have WMD. Hell - you want an infallible opinion? Mayonnaise beats the tar out of Mustard. How do ya like them apples? Go ahead Toad - invalidate my opinion.
Can't do it? Then what was your post trying to accomplish, other than to buck up a pal?
But, I guess when the actual, you know, facts, start to sting, opinions such as lazs' are the next best thing.
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The next politician who runs on a platform of writing a 1 term limit into the Constitution gets my vote.
I don't care if the rest of his platform is grilling babies and playing football with severed heads.
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Originally posted by Nash
Go ahead Toad - invalidate my opinion.
Can't do it? Then what was your post trying to accomplish, other than to buck up a pal?
No need. I see you got the point. You post a lot of opinion.
Which has about the same value as everyone or anyone else's opinion.
You just have a habit of posting yours as if it were fact. :)
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You may be right, in that my opinion is that somewhere inside of those who still cling to the Republican party resides a frightenned little girl or a beaten wife...
... and that kind of thing.
.... which would of course be an opinion. And naturally, caveat emptor.
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WOW!
It's so easy to be coaxed into taking a long walk down some disjointed path around here.
My post was a listing of facts. 36 dead in Iraq in the last 12 days (over forty now, in the last two weeks). And Powell saying that he didn't need Wilson to tell him that there wasn't a Niger connection... etc.
That's all it was. Merely a listing of facts, unmolested, that appeared within the last seven days. That's it.
The "opinion" was the response.
Next thing ya know? I'm playing 'dueling opinions.'
I should have known that "opinion" was the only defense possible. And I take the bait.
Nevermind. My stuff still stands. Refute or justify those facts, or get off of the field..
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You really didn't participate in the discussion until your "glockenspiel" post.
Prior to that you did indeed just list facts. Which, when you look at it objectively, is sort of a troll isn't it? You just tossed that bait out there to see what would develop while you sat on the sidleines?
Then you get into your opinion with the music analogy and cap it off with suddenly realizing you have to actually participate in a discussion to be having a discussion.
Congrats!
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Oh... and refute the news? I'll pass, thanks.
The short and long term meaning of your "facts"? That would be something else entirely and would be a discussion that requires two or more folks.
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Originally posted by Toad
You really didn't participate in the discussion until your "glockenspiel" post.
Prior to that you did indeed just list facts. Which, when you look at it objectively, is sort of a troll isn't it? You just tossed that bait out there to see what would develop while you sat on the sidleines?
Then you get into your opinion with the music analogy and cap it off with suddenly realizing you have to actually participate in a discussion to be having a discussion.
Congrats!
Well, I posted it late Wednesday night. Thursday I worked, and went to the Calgary Flames game straight afterwards. I wasn't back home until real late. Friday was a holiday, and marked the official opening of Lakeside so I was out golfing all day. When I returned home, I responded. That's not a huge passage of time either, my friend. We're talkin' one day - and here I am, just like I was here yesterday.
So your insinuation that I "just tossed that bait out there to see what would develop while you sat on the sidleines" thinking is just wrong.
And once again, it's funny what "bait" means to different people. Something said can be enlightening, interesting, off putting, compelling, distasteful...... but if it's disagreeable to you? Voila! It's suddenly "bait."
AND.... once again we're off somewhere talking about bait, and not discussing the actual subject of this thread. What is it with you?
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"36 dead in Iraq in the last 12 days "
How many bad guys did we kill?
"went to the Calgary Flames game"
For some reason I thought you lived in Vancouver.
J_A_B
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OK, Nash....
tell me what your first post means to you.
You've got jack all in there but 11 bullet points with no comment of your own except that your are "irked".
That's the lead in to a meaningful thread? To a meaningful discussion?
Hardly.
So, elucidate. You're irked. You're mad as hell and you're not going to take it anymore? What?
Or were we just supposed to acknowledge that your were irked?
If so, got it, thanks.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
"went to the Calgary Flames game"
For some reason I thought you lived in Vancouver.
J_A_B
I did.
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Now I'm off to sleep. I look forward to reading your discussion of the meaning of the list in the morning.
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Originally posted by Toad
OK, Nash....
tell me what your first post means to you.
You've got jack all in there but 11 bullet points with no comment of your own except that your are "irked".
That's the lead in to a meaningful thread? To a meaningful discussion?
Hardly.
So, elucidate. You're irked. You're mad as hell and you're not going to take it anymore? What?
Or were we just supposed to acknowledge that your were irked?
If so, got it, thanks.
Oh geeze, Toad.
A mere six years ago any single ONE of those points would be worthy of eighteen hundred threads and several thousand pages of discussion here. You were here back then, right? Nowadays, you can put a dozen of them in one place on any given week and can hear a pin drop.
What happened to everyone?
I could pull together the damning events of the last 7 days in the span of 15 minutes. Want me to do it again next Wednesday? Chances are it will be longer. Certainly it will be consistent.
And surely it would be met with the same "opinions," along with you calling it "bait" and questioning my reaction time.
That might be interesting.... but personally, it's interesting that you would rather talk about that.
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"A mere six years ago any single ONE of those points would be worthy of eighteen hundred threads and several thousand pages of discussion here. Now? Ya can put a dozen of them in one place in any given week and ya can hear a pin drop."
This BBS has a distinct lean to the right, which is unsurprising given the nature of the sort of people who are attracted to this type of website. I read Fark when I want discussion that leans more to the left.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
..a distinct lean to the right, which is unsurprising..
J_A_B
(http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/places-and-sights/Italy-Pisa-the-Leaning-Tower-BGK.jpg)
Really?... I hadn't noticed.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
This BBS has a distinct lean to the right...
J_A_B
Yup. For sure. You can gauge it by the desperation.
You can gauge it by the fear talkin'.
You can gauge it by what isn't said.
Sober grownups look at a situation as it is, examining all the available evidence, and then carefully charting the wisest course based on where the evidence leads.
You won't see that from the few true believing Republicans that are left. Like marionettes, they dance to a beat called fear. One small tug on the string is enough to catapult them into a panic driven hell. And everyone knows, a man who is frightened will say just about anything.
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You are tilting at windmills Nash.
Yea, I am pretty sure everyone knows that Iraq isn't a good situation. Most of us are going on the "You broke it, you buy it" rule.
The only response you are going to get out of people is a "OMGzzmasdh1!!11! BOOSH HITLER HITLER BOOSH LOLZ!z111```" or nothing.
And the above is only coming from the hard core right wing .. and their goal is just to piss you off.
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Heh - come on.
Yea, I am pretty sure everyone knows that Iraq isn't a good situation. Most of us are going on the "You broke it, you buy it" rule.
That's noble and everything, but guys like me told you repeatedly that it was a very very bad idea to effing break it in the first place!
But.... I wish Iraq were even half of it.
And yeah, the whole "BOOSH is teh Hitler" contingent can, and always could, bite me.
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The "Contract With America"... 10 years later.
A corrupt presidency. A corrupt and inept legislature. A restive population and the nation caught in a shooting forever war.
While the democrats shriek and wail and point fingers.. the republicans insist "nothing to see here... move along."
On a national level, this has stopped being a representative democracy and the majority.. who think that both partys are broken, are just now begining to realize that they are completely without representation thanks to the political culture that feeds at the k-Street trough... and the corporate lobbies run a bi-partisan trough.
"So.. we're screwed. No use fighting it; if there's any america left, I'd rather be on the right than the left.. so I'm gonna vote republican."
And, so it goes.. we link arms and descend another coupla rungs on the ladder down to tyranny.
Or we, 'revolt' and form a new party with a new 'Contract With America' and win in a landslide...
and then, I woke up.
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Now? Ya can put a dozen of them in one place in any given week and ya can hear a pin drop."
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same old boring crew can only mix it up on the same old dreary subjects in only so many thousands of threads and tens of thousands of replies before smacking ones skull against the opposition just loses its vitality. Vote.
Some thoughts: Bush is a disappointment but what president isn't. Ill be glad when he is out of the picture but as is usual, I dread the next moron that will replace him.
Invading Iraq was one option out of many...for better or worse it happened, I do not dwell on it and hope that at least it leads to a better world at some point down the road (doubt it, as long as religion is around to cloud human judgement).
Iran is like Syria is like North Korea....problems either get worse and ultimately destroy the problem solver or they get fixed...to be replaced by other problems and on...and on.....
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Originally posted by Nash
Oh geeze, Toad.
[/b]
Ok, you're irked. You still got jack to say.
You line up 7 events that you find cataclysmic and wonder why everyone else isn't running around shouting "Fire! Fire!".
Here's a thought... maybe it isn't "everyone else". Maybe it's you. Eh? Possible? Of course NOT! YOU have the POWER.. YOU have the INSIGHT.
I'll be glad to talk about any one or all of those points. After you point out your position and what you think should be done.
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Originally posted by Nash
Yup. For sure. You can gauge it by the desperation.
You can gauge it by the fear talkin'.
You can gauge it by what isn't said.
What a world you live in.
:rofl
You're not taking a creative writing course right now by any chance are ya?
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Originally posted by Nash
That's noble and everything, but guys like me told you repeatedly that it was a very very bad idea to effing break it in the first place!
Originally posted by Nash, 05-01-2003 10:22 PM
I didn't see the thread where the clock had started... but I assume it goes for our wager also Toad (or whenever u want)?
As far as I'm concerned, *everyone* was going on guesses. Due to that, bragging about any which way this turned out (and will turn out) is absurd.
"I was right, you were wrong" is the same as saying "Gee aint I smart - neither of us had any information, but I made a better guess than you". So I think it's silly to see or do any bragging on it.
Heh.
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LOL nash... you are starting to foam at the mouth... your agenda get's expossed and you can't take it?
You have allways endorsed democrats. everyone here knows it... you don't endorse independents..
You are simply a mirror image of me. I vote independent and support independents (libertarian only) when it looks like they have a chance to win or..... when the democrats are a sure loser no matter who I vote for..
you do the same in a mirror image... you give lip service to "iondependents" when you think it will hurt republicans and you "vote" (if you could vote, in your case...it is advocate for) you "vote" for independants when it is positive that the socialist democrats will get in..
The only difference between our philosophies is that you are not honest about it.
You hate republicans and you love liberal socialists. I hate both but just like you....
I see that liberal socialist democrats and republicans are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
What people mean when they say that I have a point is that.... everyone including you knows that democrats have a liberal socialist agenda.
You are trying (in a rather sneaky and dishonest way) to push their agenda by attacking the only other party that has a chance to defeat them.
now of course, you know all this and I know all this and everyone who has ever read either of us knows all this..
just thought it would be nice to get it out in the open.
lazs
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Contrary to people being contrary for sake of being contrary, there is a common thread in all this that crosses party and national boundry lines: a democracy gap.
A gap between what people in modern democracies, republic or parliamentary, expect and want for their society from their government, and what they get. No one here is getting what they want from their employees - government workers and legislators.
Better yet, let's call them by their rightful name, the democracy aristocracy.
While people are consuming the image of a "democracy-flavored" drink marketed to them the same way dishwashing liquid is sold, they are, in reality, just getting artificially-flavored sugar water to appease them. Keep everyone busy enough saluting their nations flag (whatever colors) and evoking (undefined) 'patriotism' and they won't have time to consider if there is any substance behind the style.
The US is getting older. It's reaching middle age as a country. European countries and cultures had to go through a transition in government styles as resources and economics changed from territorial limits, and long-standing traditions and cultures became entrenched. The US started and expanded into areas of enormous resources, not just the land.
The engines and resources for growth are starting to change in the US, just like it did for smaller countries before. The bureaucracy and aristocracy of governing is growing in the US as fast as it did in Europe. There are more Department of Homeland Security employees than there are active duty US Navy.
Government sector spending has gone from about 22% of GDP after WWII drawdown, to 44% of GDP. It all comes out of the private sector, which is now only about 55% of GDP.
The government industry is:
- double the size of the construction industry.
- bigger than the entire information sector including broadcasting, movies, music, publishing, tele-communications and information technology.
- bigger than the entire real estate industry, including rental and leasing.
- dwarfs the entire health care industry.
- double the entire retail trade industry.
- bigger than all of the banking, finance, investment and insurance industries combined.
No one set out to manufacture this system, it just happens in all societies as they age, democratic or authoritarian, and people consolidate their power in mutual-assistance groups. The "democracy-flavored" drink is an advertised illusion of democracy, but the reality is that it is a "velvet-gloved" feudalism. You don't really have any power to change anything, you just think you do.
Democratic politics is power, derived from money and the purest example of the "Golden Rule" in action: the men with the gold make the rules.
Will the US move even closer to looking like the older European cultures as it ages, except bigger? Probably. The high percentage of "authorities" and their aristocratic rule will see to it. It's in their interest. Government workers are now better compensated than private-sector employees doing comparable work, contrary to what their marketing tries to portray, thus they are truly aristocrats - they control 44% of the entire economy (they hold the gold), and they make the rules. A ruling class.
It was interesting to read some of the comments people made about the French students demonstrating (and winning) recently. They weren't just a bunch of spoiled, lazy, socialist kids. They got a bad rap from the American press mischaracterizing their purpose.
They were motivated to action to force their government to do what they wanted, not what the bureaucrats and corporations wanted. They acted to close the democracy gap.
Corporations act in the best interest of the stockholder, not in the best interest of the people who do the work. In all cases, the stockholders win. They would have been discarded and replaced with a fresh batch of kids when they reached the upper age limit of the program, layed off in a whim for short-term profit, forced to accept longer hours at lower wages and eroding benefits, all take and no give.
Have you ever heard of any government workers accepting pay cuts or reduced benefits?
If they were American, you would have supported and admired them for their spirit and guts to act, and not just accept what the government, in concert with business, was forcing down their throats. They put a line in the sand and said that they were not going to accept being turned into disposable drones in the name of "globalization." There would be a movie-of-the-week about them. Off-topic, so I'm sorry. And sorry about the length of this.
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Rolex... remove social security and medicar and medicade and welfare and see how much the government grows.. cut taxes 5% a year.
As far as democracy? I am not a big fan of democracy. I believe in democracy only with a strong constitution with human rights spelled out clearly and in strong terms.
I do not want to go the way of the euros... we left there because of their ways. There is no where else to go.
We have to fight the nash's here or nowhere.
lazs
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You are tilting at windmills Nash.
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Urchin,
Just curious...what does it mean when nash tilts at windmills?
Im trying to get a visual on this and the picture just dont look right?
Are you saying he is wasting his time?
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Yes, it means he is wasting his time.
The reference is to Don Quixote.
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thanks Urchin.
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Wow... it rises.
All 'cuz somebody doesn't know a Cervantes reference that's been basically universal for, oh, the last 400 years. I think I'll be taking my political advice from someone else, thank you very much.
A few quick things; housekeeping as it were. Toad, you've posted that quote of mine a few times now, and I'm always confused about what point you're trying to make by doing it. Yes, I said that it'd be wrong to brag about the guesses involved in going to war. But, I also haven't bragged about those guesses.
Ya see, the quote that you fail resurrect is the one posted at around the same time, where I also said that it is utter folly to take a nation to war based on guesses. Winning a bet based on WMD or the lack thereof is nothing to write home about. Supporting a war based on such unknowns? Well, that's where the problem begins, and that's what you will have to live with.
In other words, I was only right about WMD (as compelling as the lack of evidence was), because you were wrong. It could have gone either way. I seriously doubted it, but still...
The mistake was to support such a thing. Here's a hint:
The next time you have to, like, bet someone on the internets on who is going to be right regarding the basis of going to war, then war is probably not a good idea at that point.
Comprende?
Oh, and.... lazs? Why would I bother? You get all crazy, pointing fingers and accusing me of doing something in this thread, and then when it's pointed out that in fact you were the one doing it, the only one, you start in with the usual gibberish 'liberal socialist' ranting. So how can I help ya, buddy?
Btw, it's just baffling to me..... it always is.... to see such a well crafted post such as Rolex's get responded to with this, I don't know what to call it... the 'Archie Bunker Treatment,' or something.... from somebody like you. He's got more brains in his left nut than your entire family does combined.
Doe Rae Me Fa So La Dee Da.
"Just curious...what does it mean when nash tilts at windmills?"
"Im trying to get a visual on this and the picture just dont look right?"
"Are you saying he is wasting his time?"
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Why don't you post that old statement then Nash. I sure don't remember it quite that way.
I didn't have to bet. The bet actually was to make a point about those who were so SURE there were no WMD. There were several folks spouting off about how SURE they were that SH didn't have WMD. They were CERTAIN.
But NONE of them would wager a tiny sum like 3 months of AH on their certainty. Nobody wanted to take the "easy money" from me.
You took the bet but at least admitted you weren't certain.
So, that was the purpose of the bet; it was a "call" to prove a point, one which you acknowledged. No one was "certain".
Oh, and from my POV, you HAVE bragged about your guesses. Perhaps you'll point me towards some posts that show you're not bragging now?
It strikes me that maybe YOU don't remember what I said back then.
Here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80110&highlight=just+AND+theory)
Originally posted by Toad 02-27-2003 08:10 AM
I'm aware of the Iraqi uprisings.
I still say you can't "give" a people their freedom.
No Revolution ever had bleaker prospects than the American Revolution. Your country was the "superpower" of the time and the 13 colonies were insignificant in comparison. The Revolutionaries lost battle after battle with horrendous (for that time and that source population) losses.
But they didn't give up.
Would the troops of Saddam Hussein shoot their own families if the families were all out in the street?
Against my personal beliefs and judgement, the US & Britain probably will "liberate" Iraq and depose Saddam.
I'll wager you right now that the US/British post war attempt to initiate a democracy in Iraq is going to cost more soldiers lives than the actual "war phase". You've already outlined the reasons why this is going to be extremely difficult in another post and I agree with your reasoning.
This is the wrong war at the wrong time, even though the reason behind it is basically correct. IMO.
JB, as for the Balkans, I believe you'll find the "anti" crowd pointing to Caspian oil, approximately five billion in mineral deposits and the second largest European deposit of lignite coal (17 billion tons) in Kosmet. To a cynic, there is no honorable intent.
And this one, same thread: 02-27-2003 10:56 AM
And, while I hate to sound like some of those folks reknowned for their inability to accept obvious fact, I have yet to see an incontrovertible linkage of Iraq to 9/11. If there were one, I would happily join in the rush to war, but I haven't seen one as yet.
Iraq's disregard for the UN is quite obvious. However, I personally don't find that a cause for an attack on a sovereign nation by the United States that could possibly be justified by "just war theory". Now, WITH a UN mandate to make Iraq comply, that would be different.
But without that, I can't support it. The US is about to become an "aggressor" nation in the same way Iraq did when Iraq invaded Kuwait without provocation. That's my opinion, and it sickens me to think that the US is going to become what we have fought against for so long.
What US civilian lives lost can you trace directly to Iraq? I'll step up and say we need a definitive "traceable" act against us in order to justify this war.
UNLESS the Security Council asks the US to make Iraq comply with the UN/SC resolutions. And that obviously isn't going to happen.
I'm sorry, much as I hate the idea of Hussein remaining in control and murdering and starving his own people..... I don't want to see the US become an agressor nation.
[/b]
I think you have forgotten my position and substituted one of your own making.
Perhaps you remember this one though? I seem to recall you got a copy of the letter.
HERE (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132165&highlight=just+AND+theory)
Originally posted by Toad 10-06-2004 09:57 PM
I believe we've discussed this before.
While I'm sympathetic to the idea that establishing a true democracy (or two) in the Middle East would indeed be a good thing for the world, I'm totally unsympathetic to the idea that the US can invade a sovereign nation and remove its government without having a reason that is valid under Just War theory.
Had they found WMD, I think that could be construed as such a reason.
I admit I was willing to give the administration the benefit of the doubt on their WMD claims and I did support the invasion at that time.
However, at that time I also stated that WMD would have to be found at some point in order for me to continue to support the administration's sending our sons and daughters to war. I also stated that if WMD's were not found, the President would have to be held accountable for invading a sovereign nation without just cause.
I have written my Congressional Representatives about this and I will not vote for Bush.
I won't vote for Kerry either. So, I'm Libertarian this time around.
Like Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that.
Maybe you are tilting at windmills and ones you constructed at that. Or is that a strawman you're chopping up?
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BTW, do you actually want to discuss your list at the beginning of the thread or did you just toss it out as bait?
I'll help you out here: What do you think about Powell after reading that quote?
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Originally posted by Toad
I didn't have to bet. The bet actually was to make a point about those who were so SURE there were no WMD. There were several folks spouting off about how SURE they were that SH didn't have WMD. They were CERTAIN.
"... those who were so SURE there was no WMD?"
How about the folks who were so "SURE" that there was WMD? Like, oh, I don't know... you?
Hmm... Excuse me if I'm mistaken, but back then you were trying to have us all believe that you knew somebody on the "inside" who supposedly "knows what he's talking about."
"The bet actually was to make a point..." - Toad.
Yeow! Dammit Toad, are you trying to make a funny?
If anybody was coming off as "SURE," it was you... and that's when the bets started happening. I was only fortunate enough to wiggle in on one of them.
To me, it just looked like guesses... by everyone. You merely guessed that your "inside" guy knew what he was talking about.
And now you're gonna sit here and have us all believe that your bets were motivated by nothing other than to force the fence sitters amongst us to put their money where their mouth was? Hell, you were choking on yours.
Me? The whole thing looked and sounded retarded. Like a circus. Powell's UN speech resembled a man who had taken three days of juggling classes, and was then expected to enter the biggest talent show of his entire life.
Nothing. Added. Up.
And I took your money.
Still.... it was all guesses by us. Of course! And I stand by my words that when it comes to guesses, it is probably just not a good idea to put people's lives on the line for them. I wouldn't do it as CIC, and I wouldn't support it as Joe Blow.
Finally, it's great that you post all these quotes of yours in an attempt to put distance between yourself and this mess. While I respect your writing ability, Toad, I aint about to let you rewrite history.
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Originally posted by Toad
I'll help you out here: What do you think about Powell after reading that quote?
While I couldn't even begin to imagine the forces tugging on a person at that level, I have this naive expectation that good men rise up and call a spade a spade, the second they recognize one.
Silly me, though.
The more I hear him talk about what he didn't do, the more I lose respect for him.
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(http://cs-people.bu.edu/jching/photo/catfight.jpg)
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nash is tilting again....
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Our little boy is all groweds up tonight!
(lol, you didn't even know what that meant five minutes ago, amazing as that is...)
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keep it simple stupid :D
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nash you are re-enforceing everything everyone allready thinks of liberal socialists...
you have a very plain agenda to make republicans look bad enough that democrats seem allmost a reasonable alternative.
You think that you are being sneaky and appear fair an openm minded about it and that no one notices how dishonest you are about your real agenda. That is right out of the commie handbook.
So tell us.... what should we do? You tell us how bad the republicans or some republicans are at every opportunity but...
I see no solutions from you? are you afraid that your solutions will look even worse than the republican rot you point out?
Of course you are. That is just plain dishonest... it isn't clever and.... the end does not justify the means. I know you are smart enough to understand what you are doing so it disgusts me.
I would have a lot more respect if you were a lot more upfront about your agenda.
I may not agree with the right wingers on this board but they are refreshingly candid compared to you..
There are a few honest lefties here but....
you ain't one of em.
lazs
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Originally posted by Nash
To me, it just looked like guesses... by everyone. You merely guessed that your "inside" guy knew what he was talking about.
[/b]
That is correct, I went with what my former commander told me. That was part of my decision process and it was a factor. Unlike some fence sitters, I did take a position.
And now you're gonna sit here and have us all believe that your bets were motivated by nothing other than to force the fence sitters amongst us to put their money where their mouth was?
[/b]
Review the 10bears thread; that's what it was. It was "I call".
Finally, it's great that you post all these quotes of yours in an attempt to put distance between yourself and this mess. While I respect your writing ability, Toad, I aint about to let you rewrite history.
The nice thing is I don't have to rewrite history. That is what I wrote and the dates are part of the posts on the BBS. There are many more posts in that vein that I didn't link. I think they show "where I was" pretty clearly. I think the copy of the letter you got that I sent to all our politicians showed what I thought.
If there's any rewriting to be done, it's you rewriting your idea of what my position was. You complain about folks that won't look at the facts... check the mirror.
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Originally posted by Nash
While I couldn't even begin to imagine the forces tugging on a person at that level, I have this naive expectation that good men rise up and call a spade a spade, the second they recognize one.
Silly me, though.
The more I hear him talk about what he didn't do, the more I lose respect for him.
Good for you! See, if you'd have posted this with the first post, there could have been discussion.
Powell failed the nation but likely only because he tried to "work within the system". With the prestige he had, he might have made a difference if he "went public" and maybe even quit.
However, he always was a "political general".
Now, that worked so well, let's move on to your point two, "The Generals Revolt".
So what's your postion on that? What importantance do you attach to it?
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About 3 weeks ago I went to a client conference with an investment firm. On one of the days, Colin Powell was the keynote speaker after lunch. Good fortune to me (or we have 3/4 of billion with the investment firm), I was at the lunch table with Colin before he spoke.
Very interesting person & truely amazing. Definately a man of high integrity and high morals. From the discussion, it came across he had no regrets of presentation made to the UN, acting on the best information available. Also no regrets the US went into Iraq, thinks it is definately good to get rid of Sadam & good for long term middle east. He says only regret is US didn't keep up with massive force & squash insurgancies before they had chance to get foothold.
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He says only regret is US didn't keep up with massive force & squash insurgancies before they had chance to get foothold.
====
Well perhaps CP will run for the office of President and make the world fun again :cry
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He said he had absolutely no plans to run for a public office. He bought a corvette & is having too much fun. He is now involved with some venture capital firm, probably making a boatload of $$.
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Wow what a great thread, started by the coolest guy on the board.
We get it Nash, you are smarter then the people you don't agree with and like to bash.
We get it man, you are more well read and logical then the people you don’t agree with and don't like.
We get it, you KNOW how things work and the people who do not agree with you are blind fools, scared little girls clinging to their mommies.
We get it, you are the are the stand out, the god among geeks, the artsy guy who is going to show all those trailer trash lesser humans how stupid and petty and scared they are when they do not agree with you.
Now that you have made it very clear that you feel you are, smarter, better, worldlier, trendier, hipper, groovier, more level headed, then everyone who does not agree with you maybe you can post something interesting?
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i almost sold colin powell a TV.
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Something is definitely up.
Staff Upheaval at the White House (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060419/pl_nm/bush_staff_dc_14)
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Interesting, what does that **** Rove do now?
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rove will give up being a daily bush controller and start braining intently on the upcoming elections.
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Yup - I see it the same as you, Yeager.
With the looming elections, this isn't so much a demotion as it is a transfer.
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You don't want to discuss the General's Revolt?
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Originally posted by Toad
Now, that worked so well, let's move on to your point two, "The Generals Revolt".
Sorry Toad, I'm not ignoring you or your question...
My answer to my "point two" would be that I think you've missed the point of my post.
Sure, each of those bullets could, on their own, constitute much grist for the mill, and we could certainly work through them one by one, but the fact of their existence is not up for debate. In other words, they are irrefutable happenings in a period of seven days, devoid of any opinion and speculation by me or anyone else.
They happened. They just are.
It was a cold snapshot of seven days under this administration, and my point, if you could call it that, was to ask in essence "double you tee eff?!"
It's insanity.
You've never shyed away from examination and discourse, Toad. And while you and I only tend to agree maybe ten percent of the time, I have a great deal of respect for you, because I think that you take your responsibility as a citizen seriously. Hell, you're one of the few guys here that seems to understand that citizenship and all that it entails is not a luxury, not a birthright, but an obligation... an always explicit pact between you and the founding fathers.
A government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
What happened?
We must consider that Democracy is not just a matter of happenstance or mere dumb luck, but that it comes with strings attached. It's not some random perk of the job. It requires everyone's sweat to make it work effectively. It certainly does not benefit by those who so swiftly roll over and play dead, or lip sync to some bellybutton on morning radio.
And it's far too vital to get it wrong so consistently.
The fields of history are strewn with the bodies of those who never even saw it coming. Law certainly doesn't care if you were ignorant to it.
This administration is an abomination. Plain and simple. It's an insulting affront to everything that is America; everything that it was founded upon. Its every ideal, its every good intention.
It works to erode the very freedoms that it espouses like mantra. To resounding applause. The natural and necessary tension that once connected the branches of government, now completely shattered by the arrogant idea of a unitary executive. It's outrageous. Offensive.
Like some drunkard working the rail lines, Bush passed out on the switch, derailing the train and potentially sending everyone over a cliff.
An unmitigated train wreck of a Presidency.
And now... like some desperate gambler who has watched his stockpile of "mandate" chips rapidly diminish, starts preparing to actually go for the Hail Mary, and pull that last twenty bucks tucked away in his sock and just start lobbing nukes.
What does a nihilist have to lose, anyways? Christ.
Bush Senior's Administration, who once had an approval rating in the twenties, were wise, thoughtful elder statesmen compared to this gang of lunatics.
Patriots.... true patriots, must hold everyone who is accountable for this, accountable. And everyone in support, complicit. History will judge, and judge soberly. While ignorance may serve as the feeble excuse, it will certainly not mean exoneration.
Look to history. And pay more than lip service to the idea called Democracy. It doesn't exist without you, and it fails when you fail.
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Originally posted by Nash
While I couldn't even begin to imagine the forces tugging on a person at that level, I have this naive expectation that good men rise up and call a spade a spade, the second they recognize one.
Silly me, though.
The more I hear him talk about what he didn't do, the more I lose respect for him.
Gramps called him a spade the first time he ever laid eyes on him. The older that old bastard gets, the smarter he seems to be.
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"Gramps called him a spade the first time he ever laid eyes on him. The older that old bastard gets, the smarter he seems to be." - Hangtime
Aw, well there we have it.
Time to part ways.
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after all this flowery heartfelt tugging at patriotism and doing the right thing by nash...
The only solution he has is for us to hate republicans and vote for a democrat...
unless I missed something? nash is not even an American... he doesn't even like Americans. He likes socialists and simply want's his neighbors to be more socialist like him.
so nash... that is your solution right? vote for democrats?
That is no solution at all... voting for a democrat over a republican only makes things much worse for the average man.
You don't want democrats to put in supreme court justices that think that "emminent domain" means that the state owns your property or one that comes up with "hate crimes" or (even more orwellian) "hate speech" can you imagi9ne? hate speech?
Democrats who feel that the state should educate your kids and that you should have no choice in the school that they go to... that junk science is a good enough reason to change the way you live with a heavy handed EPA....
That feels that social security and medicare and medicade and schools need to be funded more and more every year till we are all broke...
A party that thinks it can tax us into prosperity.... one that thinks the government is allways the best solution to every problem but hasn't solved a problem ever... one that "feels" that guns are terrible things and that the founders didn't know what they were talking about..
seatbelts and helmet laws..... just tiny little things....
Those are the things that nash would like you to forget about and focus on the evil (that doesn't even affect you) that is the Republican party...
A party that made the average tax on people go from the high in klinton days of 21% to the now tax burden today of 17%
yeah.... I really want to dump a few bad republican so bad that I would sign my life off to the commie democrats...
lazs
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Originally posted by Nash
Sorry Toad, I'm not ignoring you or your question...
My answer to my "point two" would be that I think you've missed the point of my post.
[/b]
Actually, I'm beginning to think you didn't HAVE a point when you posted. Remember this?
Originally posted by Nash
Oh geeze, Toad.
A mere six years ago any single ONE of those points would be worthy of eighteen hundred threads and several thousand pages of discussion here. You were here back then, right? Nowadays, you can put a dozen of them in one place on any given week and can hear a pin drop.
What happened to everyone?
So you DIDN'T want threads and pages of discussion? Which is it?
but the fact of their existence is not up for debate. In other words, they are irrefutable happenings in a period of seven days, devoid of any opinion and speculation by me or anyone else.
They happened. They just are.
[/b]
They happened. Somehow though, you seem to think everyone shares your interpretation of the meaning of those events. That, of course, is not necessarily so.
Powell for example. To me, Powell's quote is significant more for his self-indictment. You castigate me for eventually deciding to support the invasion based on what my old CO in the intel biz told me and with the caveat that WMD had to be found sooner or later to justify the war.
What do you think of Powell then? An American with high military and political stature who KNEW something wasn't right and didn't speak out. Au Contraire; he continued to make a case for the Administration while he KNEW part of it was incorrect.
You ought to be flaming him far more severely.
The Generals? You'll always find retired Generals that don't like whoever was their last SecDef. You'll note a bunch of Generals just came out in support of Rumsfeld in the past few days? So what's that mean? What do you make of that fact that just exists?
Rumsfeld suprised me; I didn't think his warplan was going to be worth dung. However, we rolled up the Iraqis in very short order with really light casualties. I was wrong.
His post war plans sucked. No doubt about it. That suprised me too. I figured they'd be poor but not this incredibly poor.
During his tenure, he did canx some weapons systems and force changes in policy that were bound to P.O. some generals. Couple that with his post-war failures and I'm not suprised that he has opposition.
How good was he? Without his post-war screwup, he'd be rated a decent SecDef. Unfortunately for him, one "awshirt" wipes out one thousand attaboys.
All this being just another example of the FACT that while some retired generals openly oppose him that FACT has different meanings and implication for different people. Your opinion is the only one that counts for you but that doesn't necessarily make it the only one that counts for others.
What happened?
[/b]
I'll tell ya what happened. In the last TWO Presidential elections we had piss-poor choices from both major parties. As a result we ended up with a piss-poor choice in the office of President.
Now, what to do, what to do.
We can take to the streets and force him from office. Yah, right. Ain't gonna happen in the USA. This isn't a banana republic.
As I mentioned in my letter that you saw, I think impeachment is the right action. He led us into a war that cannot be justified under Just War Theory.
Two problems with impeachment. One, you'd end up with Cheney in office unless he gets impeached as well. I doubt even you would swap Bush for Cheney.
The other is that the people with the power to start impeachment... are sitting on their hands. The United States House of Representatives has taken no formal actions toward the impeachment of Bush, nor are they scheduled to do so. Conyers and Boxer have been raising the issue for a couple of years almost and... zip, nada, nothing.
I have to assume that these people with far more political power, more "intelligence info" on the possible charges and far more money to stir up a storm are unable to bring it off. So where does that leave me? I have to believe impeachment just isn't going to happen unless some further "smoking gun" appears.
So, no banana republic, no impeachment. Looks like we're stuck with him for the duration to me.
All one can do is try to find a decent man to vote for in the '06 Senate and House races. And party isn't an issue on that... it's who will do what needs to be done?
We've got hard choices coming up on Iraq; the American people won't stand for the loss of blood and treasure forever without some hope of the Iraqis getting their act together. Then there's the budget/deficit, alternative energy and lots of other stuff.
This administration is an abomination. Plain and simple. It's an insulting affront to everything that is America; everything that it was founded upon. Its every ideal, its every good intention.
[/b]
Nah. It's just bad. It's not the antichrist. It's more the gang that couldn't shoot straight, except the things they screw up aren't funny.
now completely shattered by the arrogant idea of a unitary executive. It's outrageous. Offensive.
[/b]
Overblown hyperbole; the SC still rules this country. Remember "the mills of God grind slowly but they grind exceedingly fine"? There may well be Executive branch excesses; they will, however, be reined in eventually.
Patriots.... true patriots, must hold everyone who is accountable for this, accountable. And everyone in support, complicit. History will judge, and judge soberly. While ignorance may serve as the feeble excuse, it will certainly not mean exoneration.
[/b]
Like Powell? ;) As I said, there's going to have to be more evidence or Conyers and Boxer still have a non-starter. And the people aren't going to take to the streets in revolution... trust me on that one.
Look to history. And pay more than lip service to the idea called Democracy. It doesn't exist without you, and it fails when you fail.
Indeed, look to history. Rome for example; bread and circuses. Look at Rolex's summation upthread about maturing societies.
I am not confidant and I'm glad I'm kinda old, on the backside of the hill.
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are we getting a call for patriotism from a...... canadian?
The guys in Iraq are volunteers... they seem ok with it.
If I was gonna revolt it would be over some of the unconstituional human rights violations the democrats have visited on us..
And that is the simple thing of it nash.... your socialists piss people off a lot more than anything Bush is doing.
You wonder why we aren't in a revolution? We feel better off than if say...
your darling kerrie had gotten in and nominated a buttload of judges..
Anything Bush has or will do is more than made up for by keeping any more of your people out of the judicial branch.
lazs
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See Rule #4
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Urchin, Conyers can't even get a significant number of DEMOCRATS to join him. That's my point.
If they thought they had him, they'd be falling all over each other to give it a shot.
But they aren't. They've got money, they've got access to information we'll never see and they've got motive.
What they haven't got, even amongst the Democrats, is any kind of support. What's that tell you?
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Common sense?
The democrats havent got the votes in the House to even impeach, much less the votes in the Senate to convict.
Since thats the case... why bother?
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There was no WMD Bush knew that..he was willing to gamble they would find some on invasion...after all his party sold em the krap.
Now he is nowhere near the front line and some 3k AMI soldiers have paid the price.
Some "Decisionator" eh?
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Originally posted by Urchin
Common sense?
The democrats havent got the votes in the House to even impeach, much less the votes in the Senate to convict.
Since thats the case... why bother?
I agree with your conclusion but for a different reason.
Imagine that Bush was impeached just for a second.
Who's next in line?
Waste of time.