Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SMIDSY on April 14, 2006, 12:58:09 PM
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ok, i need something for personal defence in the near future. i dont want something that is too small, because i would rather scare the guy off than kill him (if ya kill him, he wont learn nuthin). also, money is an issue.
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oh dear god!! first i get the mild southern drawl from you guys, now i want a gun for personal defence! HELP!! I DONT WANNA BE A REDNECK!!!
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9mm is always a good choice. Light, powerful and accurate. Personally, I like something with a little more punch so I carry a .45 ACP. Guarenteed knockdown and plenty intimidating.
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Best idea is to go to a local range that rents guns. Try before you buy. Find what suits your hand. If money is an issue, I'd be looking at .38/.357 revolvers and 9mm semi-autos. My personal pref. there would be the revolver, but thats just me. Like I said, see what suits you.
Also, if you are not experienced with a handgun, I highly recommend a basic handgun course. It will familiarize you with them, most have you check out on several types and calibers, so its a good all around education in handgun safety and use. Some ranges that have courses will also give you a discount if you buy a gun from them after you pass the course. Shop around on this also, there are no rules regarding the content of the courses offered. Talk to people and see what they think of the place.
Once you select a gun, PRACTICE. Owning a gun wont do you a damn bit of good if you arent familiar with it and how it feels and how it reacts and how YOU react when you pull the trigger.
Finally, research ammo. Find out what makes the best defensive ammo for the primary use you are going to put the gun to. Home defense? Concealed carry self defense? Dont just buy cheap ammo at Sports Authority or Wal Mart and expect it to do the same job the same way as more specialized stuff.
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Personal protection 'on the street'? or Home Defense?
Nothing scares crap outta a would-be home intruder more than the sound of racking the action of a pump shotgun. With the very nice array of loads available you can cover pretty much any home defense situation.
On the street... not my area of expertiese. I don't go armed on the street, and I stay the hell outta areas that would make the mere thought of 'going armed' a reasonable precaution.
..but that's just me. ;)
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unfortunately, that is not an option for me. my best friend also happens do work with illegal things. conciquently, his and by proxy, my likelyhood of needing a gun to scare off people is higher than the average person.
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i have a 357 and a 9mm but my carry gun is a hammerless alu framed 38 snub-nosed revolver, small light concealable, let me explain.
down here the drugdealers carry small cal. cheap throw away semi-autos. When they have a business dispute and must shoot , they aim for the thigh. their opponent gets the message and the cops figure it's just another badguy vs badguy.
When the badguy goes to the ER with a little bullet in the leg the cops just write up the report and move on to more high priority business. But if you kill someone it goes from a shooting to a killing and then the cops and the DA get VERY INTERRESTED.
As long as you don't hit a major artery in the leg they will not die, and you can run away wile they are hopping around on one leg.
As you said , you would rather deter than kill.
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that is all well and good, but i need something large. i would rather not even need to fire the gun.
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Originally posted by john9001
i have a 357 and a 9mm but my carry gun is a hammerless alu framed 38 snub-nosed revolver, small light concealable, let me explain.
down here the drugdealers carry small cal. cheap throw away semi-autos. When they have a business dispute and must shoot , they aim for the thigh. their opponent gets the message and the cops figure it's just another badguy vs badguy.
When the badguy goes to the ER with a little bullet in the leg the cops just write up the report and move on to more high priority business. But if you kill someone it goes from a shooting to a killing and then the cops and the DA get VERY INTERRESTED.
As long as you don't hit a major artery in the leg they will not die, and you can run away wile they are hopping around on one leg.
As you said , you would rather deter than kill.
No. Not even close. Do not do anything from this post.
Shooting to 'Wound' defenses fall apart in court, so don't even try.
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Yah still havent indicated if your gonna carry the thing around on the street of if it's for home defense.
With just 'need something large and cheap and scary looking' and 'never need to fire it' I'd say go to a toy store.
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well the people i would most likely be defending myself against are not the sueing type, i can gauentee that. i will need it "on the street" as you say.
it is true i said i needed something so scary that i most likely would not need to fire it. however, i want the fella to go down if i do have to fire.
also, i will not kill a guy just so i can avoid a lawsuit. i would rather spend loads of time in jail and lose all my money than go to hell.
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I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about a lawsuit.
You shoot to stop your attacker, nothing else. It's federal court you should be worried about, not a lawsuit.
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In which case he's more likely to get himself killed by someone who has a gun and isnt bothered by using it.
If you really dont want to use a gun, dont buy one. If you pull a gun out and dont fully intend to use it when you do, you are going to die. I cant be any more blunt than that. A gun isnt a toy, especially a handgun. It isnt for intimidation. Rifles or shotguns you can use for hunting as well, but handguns were designed for only one thing. Killing people. Period. In your hands for self defense, it hopefully kills the other guy before he can kill you. In your hands to try to scare someone, it becomes your death warrant. Lets say you succeed and scare the guy so bad he's peeing down both legs. He really thinks you might pull the trigger. If he has a gun, he's going to take a chance and go for it, because at that point he figures he has nothing to lose. If you arent ready for it, he's going to get that gun out and before you can say Oh **** he's gonna put a hole in you. If he DOESNT have a gun, he's going to jump you and try to take that gun away. Either way, you lost because you didnt want to use it.
And what if you DO try to use it and you hit someone else by mistake, someone not even out there. The bullet goes through a window and kills some little kid or a kid's mother. Or maybe splatters Fido. Whatever. You dont sound like the kind of guy that wants to carry that kind of stuff around in his head.
If thats what you want a gun for, take my advice and leave it alone. Buy a big baseball bat instead. One with spikes and stuff.
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Hang is right, the worst thing you can do is carry a gun to "scare" the badguy, if your not willing to shoot someone forget the gun. The badguy will see the fear and hesitation in your eyes and take the gun from you.
Go learn karate or something.
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im willing to take the chance of dying. i will not kill somebody if i can avoid it. that does not meen i will not kill in self defence, i would just rather the guy not die.
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You need to seriously examine your reasons for buying a self-defense weapon. I don't know you in real life, but your posts make you sound like the kind of guy who would rather throw flowers, excuses, and welfare checks at a bad guy than do what is necessary to save yourself. The day you decide to keep a loaded gun on you is the day you make the decision to kill -- if the bad guy steps over the line in your head. Carrying means you're a killer who just hasn't pulled the trigger yet. Anything short of that, any hesitation when the time comes, is more likely to get you and those around you killed than diffuse the situation.
Scaring people off is a nice side effect of guns, but that's not what they're for.
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look, i just dont want to kill some punk kid who tries to play me for a chump by threatening me with a knife. im not afraid of killing somebody (stabbed a guy once), i just know that there are situations where lethal force is not nessasary and there are situations where it is.
PS
that guy that i mentioned went down very fast, no last stand crap like you fellas mention.
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If you live with a drug dealer and you shoot someone over drugs sales gone wrong you very well could go jail on felony gun charges and spend atleast 10 extra years in the can.
Take a look at this web page.
Take a look at this artical. (http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=7233)
It does not sound like that law would apply but I am not a laywer and if it does you would be up **** creek.
I am with Tarmac, you are considering the purchase for the wrong reasons, you should think very hard on this before you go any further.
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i am in no way attached, finantially, to this fella. if i fired the gun, it would only be in a situation that i couldnt run away from. unfortunately, this would rarely be an option as i have a bad knee. because of this, i have fewer options than most.
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Bull**** smidsy. Now you are just pulling excuses out of your bellybutton as to why you think you need a gun.
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don't get a gun, buy a can of mace or a tazer or something.
guns are not intimidation tools. you don't wave them around to scare away the bad guys. they are for putting holes in things, to make living things into dead things.
carying a gun to try and intemidate people and back them down is a bad idea and not going to lead you anywhere good.
it's not going to make you taller, stronger or tougher.
the other guy shouldn't even know you have a gun until that last few moments of his life when he's looking around and wondering what that big noise was.
btw- if you need to pack a gun because of your best friends less than legal "bussiness dealings", get a new friend.
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
my best friend also happens do work with illegal things.
Get a new best friend before he takes you down with him.
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
i am in no way attached, finantially, to this fella. if i fired the gun, it would only be in a situation that i couldnt run away from. unfortunately, this would rarely be an option as i have a bad knee. because of this, i have fewer options than most.
Shoot someone at a drug deal and the DA isn't going to give a **** if you profit from it or not.
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My advice. You should NOT carry a gun.
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I am trying to stay out of this one so far as what firearm..
I would say that you are a long way from carrying any kind of gun. More harm than good in your case I think at this point.
For the home tho... a pump shotgun is not a bad idea but... If you shoot someone that you or your friend invited in you will be in big trouble and if you point a gun at him but are afraid to use it... he will most likely shove it up your butt and pull the trigger.
You need a new set of friends more than you need a gun right now.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I am trying to stay out of this one so far as what firearm..
I would say that you are a long way from carrying any kind of gun. More harm than good in your case I think at this point.
For the home tho... a pump shotgun is not a bad idea but... If you shoot someone that you or your friend invited in you will be in big trouble and if you point a gun at him but are afraid to use it... he will most likely shove it up your butt and pull the trigger.
You need a new set of friends more than you need a gun right now.
lazs
Yep. In closing, IMO, with you harboring the feelings that you have been SMIDSY, you are an "Anti-Gun Person's" best ally.
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I am predicting a future "Darwin Award" winner here. Anyone wanna gimme odds on it?
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
I am predicting a future "Darwin Award" winner here. Anyone wanna gimme odds on it?
:rofl :cry
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Get a new best friend before he takes you down with him.
Best advice so far in the thread. Suspect it may have been wasted.
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Amen.
Guys.. I'm proud of you all.. damn fine heads. WTFG, and solid NoBS advice.
:aok
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
I am predicting a future "Darwin Award" winner here. Anyone wanna gimme odds on it?
At least gimme a wager that's got a slim chance. :D
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
im willing to take the chance of dying. i will not kill somebody if i can avoid it. that does not meen i will not kill in self defence, i would just rather the guy not die.
Then you do not need to be packing.
Simply put, you never clear the holster in a situtation unless you're going to shoot to kill. Double-tap center mass and a third between the headlights.
If you want something to brandish about get one of those fire extinguisher sized cans of pepper spray or a tazer. Better yet, get new friends before this one drags you to the Gray Bar Hotel or worse.
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Originally posted by Arlo
At least gimme a wager that's got a slim chance. :D
:rofl
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If your going to cary a gun then you need to be ready to USE it. If you have to use it then you have to be ready to kill with it. A big scarry looking gun is of no value, because that only gives you a false sense of intimidation. You have to be ready to put every round through the 10 ring right after the thing leaves the holster. You DO NOT pull a gun to scare someone. You pull a gun to kill someone. Plain and simple.
I hate to say it but you want one for all the wrong reasons, and I'm afraid that the way you might try and use it will just get you or someone else hurt or killed in the process.
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What hornet said. Guns aren't for scaring people, they're for killing things. If you pull a gun and aren't completely comitted to actually USING it, you are far better off not having one at all.
Advice above about getting a can of mace instead is pretty good. If you don't bring a lethal weapon into the mix, you're more likely to end up with a "simple" beating. Bring a weapon that you aren't willing to use, and you're gonna end up dead.
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ok, i need something for personal defence in the near future. i dont want something that is too small, because i would rather scare the guy off than kill him (if ya kill him, he wont learn nuthin). also, money is an issue.
I did not read this thread yet (I will) but I would hope that you have gotten some good advice.
Given the above statement you do not need a gun ... Get a dog.
Guns (handguns) are not to SCARE people they are to kill people. If you are not fully 100% committed to the fact that you use it the moment you show, it then you should not have it.
Never shoot to kill ... shoot to live, and shoot with no hesitation, no thought, and no lip service!!!!
The moment your hand touches your gun SOMEONE is going out in a bag, end of story!
Money is an issue??? where are you going to come up with the cash to put the number of rounds through it to become deadly enough, and safe enough, to justify owning it? I'm assuming here that you live in a city, stray rounds, through lack of practice, can become a heavy burden if they hit the neighbor or some other innocent.
Think well before you take the next step, and be safe with whatever you decide.
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One point tho... guns are used in the U.S. 1.5-3 million times a year to stop a crime... the vast majority of the time the gun is never fired.
That does not mean that I would recomend that anyone buy a gun with the idea that they will use it to "scare" someone or "shoot to wound"
If you pull a gun on someone you have to go in with the idea that you will shoot whatever part of him is the easiest to hit and you will keep shooting him until he is not longer a threat to anyone.
Most people will not face a gun. They will sudenly become polite, model citizens when facing an armed "victim".
Some drugged out or violent criminals will tho. You only need to read the "armed citizen" a few months in the NRA "American Rifleman" or some of Marshals stuff to realize that there are crazies out there that guns don't scare very much.
lazs
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Originally posted by eagl
What hornet said. Guns aren't for scaring people, they're for killing things. If you pull a gun and aren't completely comitted to actually USING it, you are far better off not having one at all.
Advice above about getting a can of mace instead is pretty good. If you don't bring a lethal weapon into the mix, you're more likely to end up with a "simple" beating. Bring a weapon that you aren't willing to use, and you're gonna end up dead.
Scaring has its place. I had a store in Alaska that was broken into a few times at night. I camped out at the store and one dawn I woke up to noise. As I stepped around the back of the store I saw a couple of guys heading into the woods 50 yards away. They weren’t looking at me so I fired a round into the ground and then immediately pointed the gun at them. They looked my direction and figured they’d just been shot at, and ran. I yelled something like, “I won’t miss next time *&%s!”. I think word got around amongst their kind because our business was punk free from then on.
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Some good advice, but also,some nonsense being posted by a few internet heros. :rofl laz2 offers good info.
Home defense - dog/shotgun/pistol in that order.
For concealed carry purposes - a small frame large caliber handgun, but only if you have practiced a lot with it and are confident you can handle it in a high stress situation. Get training and take classes on the legality of carry/using it, and when to use it.
Often enough, the mere showing of the weapon and your willingness to use it will be a deterent to a would be assailant. That being said, if you show it, and the assailant doesnt flee, be prepared to use it immediately and if you have to shoot someone, shoot to kill.
If you actually have to shoot someone, it is more about shot placement than it is caliber. Practice practice practice and get the knowledge about legalities.
That would be my advice.
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
i dont want something that is too small, because i would rather scare the guy off than kill him (if ya kill him, he wont learn nuthin).
You might wanna re think this one.
If youi not prepared to take a life to save your own you should let someone else protect you like the police.
And understand that most crackhead thugs will not think twice about bustin a cap in yo arse so you dont owe them anthing.
Here would be my choices. any45acp 40cal 10mm.
Sling a heavy bullet and bad guy goes down.
Remember the airforce dude that was shot by the cop a couple months ago?
He was hit three times at very close range with a 9mm and lived .
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What you need is one of these:
(http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/images/nyte-sytes.jpg)
Jokes aside, you sound like someone who should NOT be carrying a pistol.
J_A_B
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sounds like you need a new friend, not a new gun.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
What you need is one of these:
(http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/images/nyte-sytes.jpg)
Jokes aside, you sound like someone who should NOT be carrying a pistol.
J_A_B
thats funny right there!! :rofl
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i carry a Glock 22. its .40 cal, does the job. Glock 23 is a lil smaller, same caliber though. good bang for the buck and reliable too.
think about what your doing if you buy one, check local laws regarding the use of deadly force. i use mine do defend myself against people who want to make me dead. not that im a bad guy, i work for an armored car company. the only time you should draw a pistol on someone is when you believe you or someone else is in immenent danger of serious injury or death. not to scare someone or intimidate someone. that'll get ya thrown in the clink for brandishing a firearm. if you pull it, be prepared to use it.
enough rambling for me, think about it before you buy one.
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This sounds like a tough situation. With it being your best friend, and because he is involved in something illegal. You haven't said drugs, but seems like people get killed over that more than most things, especially in a disagreement or rip-off.
It's gonna be hard to have a somewhat peaceful life in these circumstances...always must be alert, and being paranoid goes with the territory. What I'm getting from your post is you are concerned something may happen while you're hanging out with your friend, even though you are not directly involved with the illegal activity. If your friend is a drug dealer (and I'm not saying he is), but maybe you guys get together and smoke a joint every now and then at your place. If that's the case, you are responsible for what goes on in your house, and you are responsible for your, and everyone else's safety in your house. That's the only place you have some control over what goes on. Outside the boundary of your house, on the street, there's not much you can do except to avoid places where trouble might happen. And avoid being with indiscrete people. If drugs are what's involved, very, very few people are discrete, and will get you in trouble.
You haven't said, but have implied, you are expecting some sort of confrontation in the near future with bad folks. You need to defend yourself in that event, and seek advice on guns. For the home, which is the only place you have some control, a pump shotgun gives a warning sound which most people recognize and heed. If you find yourself in a situation not of your making, (your friend is at your house and someone follows him to your place) and you see or hear trouble brewing, you can rack the shotgun from another room. If you have to use it, it is effective.
I do not recommend carrying a handgun unless you are going to take on the role of bodyguard for your friend. I would not want to be in such a situation. Take under advisement, if you do this and use the gun to scare them off, they will come after you and confront you when you are least expecting them.
Good luck, and do not carry a gun in this case unless you believe your life to be in imminent danger. I knew a guy once who thought someone was after him. He was involved in drugs. He took it seriously enough to leave town and went to Africa for merc training. He lasted three weeks and came home after he got sick with the trots. He found he didn't have a stomach for killing either, but he went there to learn how to, if he had to at some point in his life.
Les