Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Atoon on April 15, 2006, 01:51:25 PM
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I still have my 17" sony flat panel moitor, but was relieved of my computer and my laptop- It's a long sad story I'd rather forget.
Can anyone help me with a source for just A CPU? I need an excellent gamer system, would like to keep it under $1000. I still have great speakers and all the accessories, I just need a new CPU. Thnx in advance!
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While not being able to direct you to any companies (i'm in the UK here) I will suggest that you dont settle for any less than a radeon 9800 vid card and DEFINITELY 1GB of RAM.
you should find what you're looking for, that will play AH with smooth res and frames, for under $800(approx guess converted from £sterling) if you are just buying the cpu box seperate.
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While the 9800pro was a good card keep in mind that it is an AGP only card. AGP by todays standards are done, you should get a box that has PCI-x or a MB with PCI-x and build your own.
I am a fan of the AMD processors, speed per $$$ is good and thier great for gaming.
An NForce4 939 setup along with a good 12 pipeline (or higher) PCI-x card and no less than 1GB of RAM makes a nice gamers rig for around $1000
Hope this helps
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As to AH compatibility, let me tell you:
Avoid dual core processors! (At least the AMD ones that come with these HP Pavilion boxes you can buy off the shelf for under $1,000.)
There are workarounds; but they are tedious and annoying.
(Heh, now that I've said that, HTC might come out with a version that fixes the problem, and you'll be wishing you did have that dual core thing.)
luck.
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My AMD dual core system runs AH with no problems at all.
It is home built though, so.....
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http://www.cyberpowerpc.com
http://www.ibuypower.com
Maybe I misread it. You need just the CPU or a new PC? You can get the cpu at http://www.newegg.com
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I should add that I'm not very familir with all the tech. terms.
I guess I was hoping for a name brand/model, that works well, without customization.
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Buy a PC magazine or check a website that boasts machine reviews, check the specs of the machine you're interested in performs well for 3D benchmarks, ensure it has lots of RAM (this will be clearly listed as a key feature in any review) and lastly ensure you are purchasing something with *at least* a radeon 9800 vid card(moil's varients are all better.), which will also be clearly shown in any spec list
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I think Slash has provided me with what I need
Now I need towel to clean up the drool:D
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Using the Ibuypower link, I am looking at the "weekly gamer special"
AMD Athlon-64 X2 3800+
nVidia nForce-4 SLI 16x PCI-Express MB
512 MB DDR400 Memory
160GB 7200 rpm SATA-2 HDD
16x Double Layer DVD+52x32x52 CD-RW
16x DVD-ROM
7.1 Channel Surround Sound
16x Double Layer DVD±R/±RW Drive
600W Subwoofer Speakers
Nzxt Trinity Tower Case w/MOD Window
Special Features:
FREE 12-in-1 Media Card Reader
FREE One Year iCare Deluxe OnSite Service
I'll make a few upgrades, like an operating system, & an MS word etc. software packge, some extra fans, extra USB ports and a couple purdy blue lights- $1,300. But this looks like it should play AH & Toca Race Driver 3 just fine
:aok
Now I just gotta wait for me paycheck. 2-weeks, what a coincidence:rofl
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Make sure you get at least 1GB of RAM.
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my "rig 2" listed below cost me just over a thousand dollars. If you dont need hard drive and cd roms and dvd burners and what not, you can do it for 8 or 900, it kicks butt, for 1000 dollar system.
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The system Atoon mentions comes standard with an Nvidia 6200 graphics card. Is that going to be sufficient or should he select an upgrade? The 6200 mentions "TurboCache". Does that mean the graphics card will be eating up some of his limited RAM?
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The Nvidia 6200 will be a big disappointment, if your a heavy gamer , it just wont cut it . Looking threw the list on ibuypower , they have a 7800GT upgrade for $258 . My 7800gt runs 1280X1024 512 textures ingame sliders @default , 2x Anti aliasing at 100fps most of the time . Ive seen it as low a 65-70 in a heavy furball over a smoking field. 38
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im looking at upgrading my video card my PC can w/ an ati x 200 i turned the settings down alittle for more performance b/c it really seems to struggle for instance if i try to attack a filght of buffs when i get within 800meters my fps will drop to 4 or 5 per secound also when the sun starts to set and rise again my fps will drop to 7 or 8 per secound. Im not very good with computers so im just guessing its my card. What cards should i stay away from and what cards do ya'll recommend.
My PC isnt even a year old i have 2gb of rememory it has amd anthlon 64 processor and thats about all the info i know about it. So if you have any suggestions i would apreciate it
Beamer:)
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I think I should upgrade soon. I use a 1.6 pent with a 128mb card and 512 ram. I have settings way low and only get 30 or so fps in a lite battle.
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Choose a stronger Vid card. And what componant will raise my ram?
They say ignornce is bliss, but tht doesn't seem to apply here.....
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Having recently gone from 512MB to 1.5 GB ram recently (had 512, bought a 1GB stick) I can tell you without a doubt that more than 512mb ram will make your life better in almost everything computer related.
I don't only play AH. In AH I had decent performance as it was, now it's a bit better. Where it really shines is with photoshop, with HL2, and other games. Before upgrading I could barely run HL2 at full settings (barely = 8 fps), and after adding more ram I can set it all to high resolution and full shaders/details/textures and cruise along at 50+fps. The ONLY thing I changed was the ram and got a larger HD for more storage.
So get more ram if you can.
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Originally posted by JimBeam
im looking at upgrading my video card my PC can w/ an ati x 200 i turned the settings down alittle for more performance b/c it really seems to struggle for instance if i try to attack a filght of buffs when i get within 800meters my fps will drop to 4 or 5 per secound also when the sun starts to set and rise again my fps will drop to 7 or 8 per secound. Im not very good with computers so im just guessing its my card. What cards should i stay away from and what cards do ya'll recommend.
My PC isnt even a year old i have 2gb of rememory it has amd anthlon 64 processor and thats about all the info i know about it. So if you have any suggestions i would apreciate it
Beamer:)
I just bought a rack sytem with the x200...my framerate will go from about 25 on the runway to upper 40's at alt with default sliders accept fro ground detail whch is bumped up a bit. Has 1 gig of ram and 3500+ venice core cpu. AH is cpu dependent so if you have a slower cpu you might have lower performance since the x200 only will use 256 of your 2 gig....
Biggest hit is probably the onboard sound...i notice a lag under load when I fire in furball or ack in furball...but never down to "slideshow" level....seems to stay in 20-22 fps at worst. I ordered a 7900GT for $309 but am not sure if PS is up to it...althoug has either 18 or 19a on the 12v rail....
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Originally posted by JimBeam
im looking at upgrading my video card my PC can w/ an ati x 200 i turned the settings down alittle for more performance b/c it really seems to struggle for instance if i try to attack a filght of buffs when i get within 800meters my fps will drop to 4 or 5 per secound also when the sun starts to set and rise again my fps will drop to 7 or 8 per secound. Im not very good with computers so im just guessing its my card. What cards should i stay away from and what cards do ya'll recommend.
My PC isnt even a year old i have 2gb of rememory it has amd anthlon 64 processor and thats about all the info i know about it. So if you have any suggestions i would apreciate it
Beamer:)
Jim, I would be more than happy to help you with any possible upgrades for your system.
To be most helpful tho I will need to know what kind of system you have? Model number? Do you have a PCI-x slot? Did your system come with a manual with specs?
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I think I should upgrade soon. I use a 1.6 pent with a 128mb card and 512 ram. I have settings way low and only get 30 or so fps in a lite battle.
That would mean you would have to stop playing AH, and work, to make the money, so you can come back and play AH at a higher FPS.
Sounds like in insurmountable problem...
;)
Balsy
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Originally posted by Atoon
Choose a stronger Vid card. And what componant will raise my ram?
They say ignornce is bliss, but tht doesn't seem to apply here.....
Howabout-
Intel Pent-4, 630, 3Gig, 2MB cache, 800 MHz FSB, 64 bit + HT ready
3 Heatsink Fans
2 gig memory
Geforce 7600, 256MB
3Gb hard drive, 7200RPM, 8m Cache
Soundblaster Audigy SE
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"512 MB DDR400 Memory"
This is the line that applies....your current configuration has 2x256 meg of PC3200 memory. You can "up" your memory in 3 ways:
1) size ie...1gig
2) speed some MB's support higher bus speeds and use memory faster then the 400mgz that pc3200 runs at
3) not all memory is equal some has a faster timing cycle then others...memory latency explained (http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Memory/Effects-of-Memory-Latency/)
article will explain it for you better then I can
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Anyone see a problem with this system?
Howabout-
Intel Pent-4, 630, 3Gig, 2MB cache, 800 MHz FSB, 64 bit + HT ready
3 Heatsink Fans(It comes w/1 but cooler is better right?)
2 gig memory(I R Teh Lernin)
Geforce 7600, 256MB(is this good enough, considering the ram?)
3Gb hard drive, 7200RPM, 8m Cache
Soundblaster Audigy SE
Aside from the processor, all are upgrades.
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more than good enough....the 7600 is a scaled down 7900...has all the pipes but runs at a slower speed (but also a lot cooler)....should be plenty of pop for AH.....
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Here is a neat cpu comparision chart , Unreal tournament is selected as a bench as it is cpu dependant . If your just using this for gaming , id look at the amd stuff. While the Intel 630 would be fine for AH now, who knows how aces will be 6 months from now .
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=238&chart=71&model2=211
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Back to the "weekly gamer special" w/ the following performance upgrades-
AMD Athlon-64 X2 3800+ w/ Hyper Transport(doesn't say what gig)
1024 MB DDR-400 PC 3200
GeForce 7600 GS 256 MB
Gebus its hard to shop when you don't know anything about what your looking at.
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Originally posted by Atoon
Back to the "weekly gamer special" w/ the following performance upgrades-
AMD Athlon-64 X2 3800+ w/ Hyper Transport(doesn't say what gig)
1024 MB DDR-400 PC 3200
GeForce 7600 GS 256 MB
Gebus its hard to shop when you don't know anything about what your looking at.
I believe its a 2.4g. You could save a little more by getting a single core CPU instead of the dual core.Or get the single core and get the 7800GT card. Id stick with the AMD too. You get more bang for your buck.
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sry got tired of reading, has anyone plugged newegg yet?
http://www.newegg.com
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This is a repost from a few weeks ago - but it applies to you.
I'll share my experience with ya - and for starters - the AMD thread offers solutions which when you get toward the bottom and page 2 provide a solution that works. Which in 99 % of the cases, is running AH in Windows 98 compatability mode with 1 of the CPU cores turned off.
Now - onto the meat. You wanna build yrself a box. Easy enough, you want it to be large enough to fit an ATX formfactor with some extra space if you have bulky items inside. Some companies don't comply with the ATX standard, such as in video cards - so you want to allow for some overhead.
The CASE
(http://www.coolermaster.com/product_common_images/fd87edec6820977cde121d80faa6be93.jpg)
Especially with the new line of processors needs a lot more cooling then in previous generations of PC. I've built a lot of computers, and as the processors got more powerful heat became my worst enemy. And because my case was too small, ended up destroying some components b/c of it. (3 video cards, 2 motherboards, 1 ram chip, 1 CPU and a HD.) By the time I got smart about it, I practically had my own coffee cup with the RMA departments. Since my case was tightly packed to begin with, my method was somewhat crude...and draconian - which involved cutting the ends off a 120mm fan and shoving it inside and securing it down with duct tape. The heat problems vanished at that point. I took no chances with the latest system built last week, which start out with 2 (120mm) and an 80mm fan.
For most users this is overkill, because if you look at the 2nd picture there are provisions to have 3 (120mm) fans up front, which attach to 3.5 HD bays - plus the 120mm at back, plus the 80mm exhaust up top, and there is even another damn fan on the detachable panel in the 80mm range which can be thrown on for cross flow.
You are probally thinking, ok - cooling, is no small ****. Well, your right - it isn't anymore. The chief cause of component failure on PCB's is heat related, and as the chip making process squeezes more stuff into smaller space, resistance builds up, heat rises, and the methods to disperse this excess grow.
The lesson learned - GET a case that is large enough to grow - and has plenty of provision for cooling and not some 1/2 assed jury rigged solution that is learned after 1/2 a dozen RMA's.
MOTHERBOARDS:
(http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-127-232-04.JPG)
The motherboard is your foundation. Without it, you don't see any porn or play AH. ABIT is highly respected in the gaming community because it doesn't break, and is user friendly for overclocking and tinkerers alike. This is my MB, which runs on an AMD X2 4400 processor. I choose AMD because my previous machine is AMD, and AMD has for years constantly outperformed Intel on all things gaming and simulation related. Which is important for you to consider in your purchase. If you look closely at the picture, you notice 2 long black slots and 2 shot black slots - and 2 white slots. The 2 long black slots are the 16bit PCI express slots. The 2 short black slots are shot PCI express, and the white slots are PCI.
The Processor
(http://www.amdzone.com/pics/cpus/athlon64/4800+/4800_small.jpg)
(http://www.amdzone.com/pics/cpus/athlon64/4800+/testbench_small.jpg)
When you look at the size of the chip compared to the radiator it needs to house - you gotta ask yrself. How much power is flowing through that to need such a hugeass fan? Well lets see...
Approximate Transistor count: 233.2 million
Approximate Die Size: 199mm2
Nominal Voltage: 1.35-1.40V
Max Thermal Power: 110 W
Max Ambient Case Temp: 65 degrees Celsius
Max Icc (processor current): 80A
Makes sense to me - 110W thermal is ALOT for such a small piece of silicone. And that is why the heat sync has such a huge footprint.
POWER SUPPLIES
Its hard to argue, with all of that power going to the processor alone - let alone any perhipherals you may have - you will need a lot of power. Generally speaking 500 watts is a good baseline to make sure you don't overtax yrself. I choose Antec because its reliable and has a ****load of connectors.
(http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-103-931-03.JPG)
(http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-103-931-05.JPG)
DVD Writers
It goes without saying, you want something that can write DVD's in dual layer and be capable of writing CD's also. The one I got does all of that, and doesn't break the bank either - especially at $40.00
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827152058
Hard Drives
There is a lot of talk about SATA and RAID enviroments. Sure, my motherboard has SATA and RAID capability, which offers speed and of course redundancy - but there is a price to pay, of course in equipment. Some decent drives are out there - but don't consider less then 300 GB - and usually a pair of them. I got 2 of these and they work beautifully. link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822140166
RAM
2 GIG is the new minimum. 90% of what is out there you will end up with 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 in the 1 or 2 GB variety. RAM prices are always fluxuating, and many manufactures offer rebates. Here if what I got. 2 GIGs for 150 bux after rebate is hard to argue with.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227210
The Video Card
Card review: http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTAwMSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
This is a touchy subject - you've got 2 choices - NVIDIA or ATI. I've owned both. The current top of the crop is the NVIDIA 7900 GTX which - to put it bluntly is ****ing huge. The 7900 at top left and its sibling the 7900GT. The difference lay in how much current is being put through, the GT is around 500 mhz, and the GTX at 650 or so. The architecture is the same between them - but the GTX has 512 MB ram, the GT has 256 - coupled by the slower clockspeed - which allows for a smaller cooling unit and overall footprint on th e motherboard. I had an ATI Radeon 9600, then ebay'd an ATI Radeon 9800 for 65 bux. After I built this system last week, now there are 2 7900 GTX's - which brings up another point, and this goes into the lessons learned part of the paragraph.
(http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_7900_gt_gtx_performance/images/02.jpg)
Double wide cards, like the 7900 GTX take up a lot of space. And if you look upstairs on the motherboard image, that is 4 slots - which leaves me with only 1 PCI slot at the bottom. But for my purposes, that is ok - because the MB has sound, GIG ethernet, 1334, optical, and enough USB on the system board and front panel for me not to complain too much. But if you wanted to add something - keep that in mind with the MB you choose and make sure it has enough slots available for what you want it to do.
Read this article to see what I mean.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/03/28/abit_an8_32x/1.html
I guess thats it - if I think of anything else i'll add stuff. But this took like 2 hours to write so I hope it helps.
S!
Wolf[
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thanks lots, it does help me to become aware of possible issues.
Currently I am looking at the NZXT Trinity ATX Mid Tower Case w/400 Power supply. It has a temperture reading on the front, and looks like it has room for additional fans.
The dual core 3800, is only 3 dollars more than the single core 4000.
Upgraded 2 extra color case lighting fans
Asus A8N5X nForce4 Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0 PCI-E Motherboard
1024 MB [512MB X2] DDR-400 PC3200 Memory Module
nVidia GeForce 7600GS 512MB w/DVI+TV output16x
200 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 8M Cache]
16x DVD-ROM Drive
16X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive
Creative Lab Sound Blaster Audigy SE
Add External USB 2.0 Hub (4x USB 2.0 Ports)
MS Windows XP Home Edition w/Service Pack-2
MS Works Suite 2006 [Word, Works, Money, Encarta, Digital Image, Streets and Trips]
LinkSys WUSB54G 802.11g 54Mbps Wireless USB Adapter
That's what I'm looking at, with those upgrades its supposed to be $1238.00 and come with free shipping.
Anyone forsee any troubles/problems??
Thnks in advance- again
:aok
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1 GIG RAM should be 2 GIG for what they are charging. 2 GIG goes for $150.00 on the street.
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I'll check with a couple local computer assemblers and see what a similar set up would cost from them. Your right though, I definately want 2Gigs of Ram
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Stone,
My thought is this: "Ditch the Dual-Core and the 7600GS", instead get the 3700 and upgrade to the 7800GT.
4000+ - 2.4Ghz
3800X2 - 2.0Ghz
3700+ - 2.2Ghz
Split the two and upgrade your Vid Card is what I'm saying here.
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Hey wolfalfa, how much does that case cost? What's its name?
http://www.coolermaster.com/product_common_images/fd87edec6820977cde121d80faa6be93.jpg
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your the second to recommend that, deffintley will consider it
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Stone,
My thought is this: "Ditch the Dual-Core and the 7600GS", instead get the 3700 and upgrade to the 7800GT.
4000+ - 2.4Ghz
3800X2 - 2.0Ghz
3700+ - 2.2Ghz
Split the two and upgrade your Vid Card is what I'm saying here.
Forget about the above advice.
Having seen dual core CPUs from both AMD and Intel, there's no question that dual core is desirable on all fronts; whether we're talking about the server world or on your desktop, dual core improves performance by a noticeable amount and the performance benefits will only get better. Even mine which is not overclocked scores up in the 9000 range on 3Dmark06.
With the Pentium D, i've had to give up a noticeable amount of single threaded performance compared to Intel's top of the line Pentium 4 CPUs in order to get better multithreaded/multitasking performance, but with AMD, I didn't have to make that sacrifice. Everything from gaming to compiling performance on the Athlon 64 X2 4400+ was extremely solid. In multithreaded/multitasking environments, the Athlon 64 X2 is even more impressive; video encoding is no longer an issue on AMD platforms. You no longer have to make a performance decision between great overall performance or great media encoding performance - AMD delivers both with the Athlon 64 X2.
The real problem is that AMD has nothing cheaper than $530 that is available in dual core, and this is where Intel wins out.
So bottom line - don't cheap out on the CPU when you can on the GPU as a stopgap for when the 7900's come down in price. And keep in mind, the 7600 is nearly identical to the 7900 except for the reduced GPU at 90nm process and a lower clockspeed and cooling solution on the card. So keep the 7600 - keep the X2.
Wolf
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Originally posted by Krusty
Hey wolfalfa, how much does that case cost? What's its name?
http://www.coolermaster.com/product_common_images/fd87edec6820977cde121d80faa6be93.jpg
Its the Coolermaster STC-T01 - a bit pricey at around $150, and weighs a ****ing ton - 39 lbs without anything in it. When i got it loaded up, I was pushing past 70 lbs.
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/Products.aspx?pid=633
Its got a ton of room - but be prepared b/c the instructions for all of Coolermaster's products appear to have been written by a myopic syphletic hooker.
Wolf
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Thnx Wolf,
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Will the 400watt case have enough power for the system?
Or for $50 should I upgrade to the 500watt power adapter?
in the 7600 whats the diff between the GS and the GT, aside from the $50?
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Originally posted by Atoon
Will the 400watt case have enough power for the system?
Or for $50 should I upgrade to the 500watt power adapter?
in the 7600 whats the diff between the GS and the GT, aside from the $50?
Should u switch to a more powerful video card down the line or if you ever do an SLI or Crossfire, you will need a 500 or more.
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Dual core 3800
and the 2 Gigs of ram
I'll make a new post for setting suggestions when it arrives
Mn I can't wait!:D :cool: