Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on April 15, 2006, 10:44:22 PM
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In the fine tradition of the chicken and the egg, a new conundrum for you AH philosophers to ponder.
Did hording result from people being incompetent at fighting, or did people being incompetent at fighting result from hording?
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people being incompetent at fighting resulted from hording
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I think it was the TV commercial .:D
Crims
479th Raiders FG
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Ask yourself what the game rewards.
It rewards winning the reset.
Given the current strat, map design and field capture conditions, the Horde is the most time-effective tool to win the reward.
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If I dont want to hoard, I just get into a jeep and drive to the closest enemy base or to TT and HO/chase enemy jeeps through town
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I don't know which came first, but it did occur to me that it stinks.
A lot of folks were complaining about the ENY system tonight (on knights). Mostly regarding ganging between countries, that sort of thing. I kind of regard it as a natural effect of having 3 sides... 2 are going to have to hit 1, at some point.
But the way I remember the game when I started (circa 2001... wow), was there was little fights going on about everywhere, not 1 or 2 hordes per side steamrolling un or underdefended bases. You can chalk it up to population density, especially on Baltic (600 people crammed in there tonight), but that doesnt ring true on the huge maps. 600 people on the huge maps works out to about the same density with 150 on the old maps.
The games rewards havent changed... but the gameplay sure has.
10x9(Baltic) , 625 sq miles per square works out to 56,250 square miles on the huge maps. Figure 150 people on a busy night, and you get a population density of ~.003 people per sq mile.
19x19 (fester MA)*625 = 225,625 sq miles. ~.003 people per sq mile.
Baltic
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I agree. I think the MA mechanics were geared towards a smaller player count. And now that's gotten so big The Horde is simply the most efficient (in terms of time) way to reset a map.
Since the real strat targets (factories, etc.) have minimal impact on the MA, all bombers just pile into the fighter bases. Of course, if the strats were made meaninful, they'd just be porked like barracks and ord are now.
If the MA were changed so that lift capacity at bases were reduced, to reduce the Horde, people would whine that sometimes they have to fly an extra 2 minutes to a fight (even though they won't really find anything close to a "battle" while in a Horde).
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Well, it is more of a rhetorical question than a serious whine/complaint.
I actually support people doing whatever they want to do in the game. If they want to steamroll undefended bases, more power to them. I'm actually only interested in a very narrow spectrum of what the game has to offer.
Personally, I'd be much happier if the game "turned back the clock" so to speak, so that the focus was again on air combat. But I can accept that the majority of the player base now doesn't want that- so I don't think it is good to try to force a different style of play on them.
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Man, the gameplay these days sure does suck.
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I really don't think people play for the 20/20/20 perk points for the reset.
1/2 the time they play just to reset the map...just to get something different on.
Horde? Yeah, they exist. I don't know why anyone follows them. You can't even get any kills in a horde. Even the most timid player must like to get a kill, right?
As far as "the suck"...I enjoy upping to counter the horde. I think it only sucks to be on the "hording" side. So if you're being "horded" you must be in a target rich environment, right?
Too drunk to figure this one out...:rolleyes:
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If the MA were changed so that lift capacity at bases were reduced, to reduce the Horde, people would whine that sometimes they have to fly an extra 2 minutes to a fight (even though they won't really find anything close to a "battle" while in a Horde).
Sounds Like AW "Zone full"
Crims
479th Raiders FG
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yep... it seems acceptable these days to join the chess piece with the largest numbers and then hit the smallest numbered piece with the largest amount of vultchers.
There is no rule against it but.... I gotta wonder...
How is it fun for the the vultures? I know when I get to a field and there are only a few or no planes and I have to circle around buzzing the field hopeing to steal a kill from the rest of the horde.... it is boreing.
Do they do it because of a personality defect or because they think the "win" is that important or a combo of both?
In any case... they do it cause they can and... they do it cause the fields are too far apart... The timid have more time to "organize" and hit the only areas on most maps where there are a few (very few) close fields
On a map with say, allmost all fields 3/4 of a sector apart... the fights would be more evenly divided around the map as urchin and the rest of us remember them to have been.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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2 cents...
1st cent....when there are equal large darbars in an area it is not a horde..it is a good fight. what "creates" a horde is that by mission or luck a lot of one countries pilots take off at same time and arrive at enemy base without much opposition. i find that it is hard to get a bunch of guys to lift off in enuf time to get alt before a horde arrives...this is just the way it is...the difference is that here are 3 times as many people on a night so a horde is 30 guys insteadof 10...i could get a few squaddies an dhave fun handling ten...i cant 30....
2nd cent....AW had a system where whn a certain number of a countries pilots were in the air..no more could lift off til the others died. while at first blush this seems good..it sucked. yiur buddy asks for helpand you cant get up...you log on and your boys at one base and you cvant get up to play with them....NO to zone limits.
again i ask for lots of close uncapturable fields..with a feweer number of capturable...whoever owns the most fields after 3 days "wins" and the map moves on to the next.
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First came the suck. Then, due to the suck, came the horde. Now, the horde makes it impossible for new people to stop sucking, and since they suck, they horde. Vicious cycle.
~rat
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first came the TV ads, and other advertising campaigns, then came the masses who faced the enormous learning curve due to seasoned Vets. This created the Suck. The Suck(ers) bieng mostly of the new generation " I haven't had to work for anything in my life, why would I start now?" followed the path of lest resistance and created the potatod(intentionlly mispelled).
It occurs to me that the potatod is likely not motivated by gaining perks, but by finally having a way to kill the vets.
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lol it's a continuous cycle and i blame part of the problem on the TV commercial, some noob watches the commercial and thinks as soon as he logs on he will be the next virtual Chuck Yeager. After a rude awakening about how good a lot of the vet players are the noob will go to the sector that has the most friendly's flying in it.....so a horde is born, even though this horde will lack basic skills in ACM with so many lemmings in a sector it's just a matter of time till a lemming gets in a HO or a ram and sends you back to the tower. What the solution is i don't know :confused:
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"The Suck" - Yah Drex came first
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My $.02
The horde started way back many years ago in AW when the players started READING.....
Like many players when I first logged on the a game called Air warrior. I didn't know a lot about flying, ACM, SA, or air combat tactics. So I started reading anything I was able to find on the WW2 air battles. Web pages popped up all over the internet on how to play and fight in AW.
One of the first things they will take note of is.... flying alone is BAD. AW like AH had/hads (many are the same guys) the best pilots in the online world. But if you had a wingman or two the great ones did die too. Then they would read more... Sqdn formations, Sqdn tactics, bombing boxes etc...
Then they start watching the history channel, reading more history about WW2 air combat. It wasn't about dogfighting, it was about killing the other guys air force and stopping them from flying.
All the flight sims, Air Warrior, Warbirds, Fighter Ace and Aces High are set up to Capture territory as the objectives. Some has arenas set a side for dogfighting, but all the main arenas in all the games are about capturing territory and winning a war. Like it or not.
They have the all things needed for warfair on the large scale... airfields, towns, cities, task groups, headquarters, factories,and ground combat. And ways to damaged fields and factories or resupply them by the successful delivery of supplies. All this may not work great all the time, but for the most part it works, if your trying to win a war.
So ....
Did hording result from people being incompetent at fighting, or did people being incompetent at fighting result from hording?
The way I see it, the players looked at the setup of the arenas, what the objective of the game was.... Started reading about ACM and the history of air combat from WW2 to today and seen it wasn't about who has the best pilots... it was about Destroying the other sides resources to make war.
One can say... Germany in WW2 had many skilled pilots based on numbers of kills in the air... but they got Horded by the 8th Air Force using number, bombing the airfields, factories and all the other resources need to make war.
So I think hording is the results of not incompetents at fighting maybe.... But the results of History and the way HTC and all the other Flight sims have setup their main arenas. Numbers and teamwork may not win all the battle, but they do win wars. We may not understand reasons HTC setup the MA this way, but its still the best ones out there... Even if it needs alittle work on the strategic bombing system.
CAVALRY
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Makes sence to me Cav.
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If you don't like the MA hords, why don't you go to the CT, or whatever they call it now. There is never anybody flying there.
I thought the MA was for cooperative flying? If you don't like to cooperate, grab a tiffy and pork troops at every base, and it will bring cooperative play to a hault.
If that isn't to your liking, come in high over the hord, and drive through. You can get at least two or three lemings to follow you a sector or two away from the hord, then you can turn and kill them in peace. If you like, have about 15 of your squadies waiting to gang bang them :)
I hope this helps,
Gunner
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Originally posted by Urchin
In the fine tradition of the chicken and the egg, a new conundrum for you AH philosophers to ponder.
Did hording result from people being incompetent at fighting, or did people being incompetent at fighting result from hording?
you should have asked, "what came first, the hord or the whine?"
ack-ack
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no conundrum here. God clearly states in Genesis 1:20 that he created all animals so the chicken came first. on to the next one. the suckage came first that leads to the hording.
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Hording came way before the TV adds. AH was on a downward slide ever since AW closed up and they added a perk bonus for resets. Enormous squads entered the game with nothing much else to do then 'win the war'. The posts are there to be found that show that some were sounding the alarmstart way back then and a few us sounded it even earlier.
Before that it was CAG 33, or whatever they were called, running their 50 man base rapes. I recall looking at radar and rushing to get up expecting a good fight only to get 5 kills before my wheels left the runway as the horde 'tards suicided in all around me. By the time I was up and turning into the horde the sky cleared and the field was left cratered with the remains of the horde. I figured it cost about 10 lives per out house killed and even suggested that HTC add such a category to the 'scores'. After that there were Fariz and his missions. Fariz caught a lot of grief over those missions, especially from me. His intent may not have been a suicide base rape but the rest of the guys in the horde didn't get the memo I guess.
From then on the horde took over every aspect of AH and that's where it is today. To beat a horde, join a horde etc...
As new guys come in they want to feel like they are apart of the community. They want to 'get organized' and 'to have an impact'. They want to help their buddies and their country 'win the war' so they fall right in with the horde. 'Mindless furballing' to them just means dieing for nothing. At least in the horde, or in that wonderfully thought out and strategically masterminded mission, they can at least take out a few pesky and ever so clever out houses before flying their PEEEE-51s 6 feet into the earth.
To read the text buffer you hear things like 'I spent 10 hours yesterday porking troops' and replies like 'well that's nothing I have the most troop porks EVAH..!'.
The AH main arena hasn't been about air combat for some time. Is that good or bad? I know how I feel about it but 'winning the war' keeps the arena full and the subscriptions paid and you can't blame HTC for giving the mass what they want. A few out houses to blow up and as many virtual lives as it takes to knock umm down.
Wotan mit uns!
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Actually, I'm going to go along with CAV on this one.
When most people think of flying in WWII, they imagine the huge bomber formations, squadrons, and massive battles in the air. After all, that's what they read in books, and see on TV and in the movies. When they join a game that professes to be a WWII flight simulator, they expect the same... huge bomber formations, squadrons, massive battles in the air. I don't think it has anything to do with wanting to fly method A or B or be a good or bad pilot. I think it has to do with the expectations of people who come INTO the game, as opposed to the wishes of those who have been in the game for a while already. This problem is compounded with the frustration of the two crowds as they clash, instead of working together and influencing each other's styles.
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Let's not leave real human nature out of this. Real people fought WWII and real people play this silly game. Many pilots (particularly among the furballers it seems) claim to want to be as "realistic" and "pure" as possible when it comes to ACM. Well, they'd be closer to their ideal in WWI air combat sim, not WWII.
Now I personnally understand doing either (furballing or toolshedding, yes, even via hordes), and engage in both as the mood suits me, though I admit the strategic value of the game, which requires the element of teamwork, coordination and communication, appeals to me more than anything else. I'm not thrilled with joining hordes (as I understand the term) as it conotates no real challenge in winning. I prefer a smaller, organized mission performed properly and successfully. My horde joining is usually precluded by several days (even weeks) of being constantly outnumbered by the other two countries, and is an attempt to reverse the trend, not necessarily an occupation for me.
The "hordes" are usually no fun for anyone to stand up against, but the human nature to join with others in a common interest (albeit war or religion) is overpowering to our species. It's how we survived the saber-toothed tiger and it ain't going away, not even for the mano-a-mano types.
I suppose if I wanted to heap some scorn on them, I could say that too many of them let their initial desire to learn and become proficient in aireal combat degrade into to ego-stroking score-whoring. Not the majority I'm sure, but a noticable number, such that it's a "bad" insult to be called such.
So the result is, either proclivity can and is taken to the extreme in AH - 1v1 furballing to "prove" how good, better and manly you are to the point of preening like peacock, or only risking to join in with the largest horde to "scour" only the most undefeaded bases and unsuspecting enemy from the face of the map.
There is one depreciating difference though. If the furballers really had their way, then what we'd have is a rather bland area where all you did was engage with one other pilot, win or lose, go home, rinse and repeat ad nauseum. And we have that now. It's called the New DA.
The war element of strategy, tactics, suppyly and capture gives the structure and context needed to make furballing continually interesting and different each time. And of course, by definition and nature, it REQUIRES that some play the game to win, otherwise it would get boring quickly for all but a handful.
As I see it, while hording is an annoyance at times, it simply means that the arena is functioning well enough to provide those 1-on-1, ACM engagements so loved by some. They should thank all the toolshedders and hordemongers, or at least be a little more forgiving.
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That is one horde of a paragraph...
Thank the horders? for what, ruining the game? Nope.... we could get rid of 400 players a night and about 30 useless feilds and I wouldn't miss em.
And furballers don't want to win? BS... furballers play to win every fight... they know when they have won. They just aren't afraid to lay it all out on the line like the horde warriors are..
Look at the horde warriors.. they claim to be wanting to "win" but one guy can draw off a dozen of em... they are so desperate to get a kill several of em will smash into the ground or killshoot each other... they are so desperate that they will circle a capped field for 20 minutes hoping for a vulch... They waste time that could be used to "win" in order to maybe.... steal one kill from fellow horders.. 10 of em could help defend a base that is over one sector and is being attacked by twice it's number butr....
They are frieghtened...
Winning isn't it.... risk free kills... not being shown up... that is what they are all about... they are just insecure... worried that in any kind of odds that don't overwhelmingly favor them... they will get spanked in front of "the world" and laughed at.
They see the "you suck" messages on 200 and don't want any part of being expossed.
I don't know where they came from... when AW belly uped we got some good players and a crapload of these worthless ones.... maybe that is why AW bit it.
nope... the horders have made it a choice of "rock or hard place" most of the time... be part of a horde and be bored to death begging for kills or.... be horded... thanks for nothing.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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The suck came first. It was there, in Air Warrior, even before the hordes.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by wetrat
First came the suck. Then, due to the suck, came the horde. Now, the horde makes it impossible for new people to stop sucking, and since they suck, they horde. Vicious cycle.
~rat
Nailed it in few words.
Having been ( as a newb) an assimilated part of the horde myself, I think staying alive is the biggest part of the swarm mentality. Look at the gaggle chasing any low con, and its obvious that the kill is on most folk's minds.
What separates the continually sucky from the growing player is the determination to move forward, even at the cost of asking for help.
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first you have to get over the missconception that dying in a game is the worst thing that can happen to you..... sucking is the worst thing that can happen to you with being bored right up there competing with sucking for first place.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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A lot of players suck, but that doesn't stop one from putting up a decent effort. It's the guy that gives up and is too afraid to 'suck' that ends up in the horde. In the horde he can hide behind of the rest of those that suck.
Most that enjoy the fight don't enter the fur expecting to 'get a few before they die'. They expect to fight and live but they aren't afraid to die or to even 'suck' as long as the blood gets moving.
The horde doesn't necessarily care about 'dieing' they are just overly concerned with getting killed by another player and being exposed as 'suck'. They have no qualms about auguring in to get that last out house etc...
90% of the time there's less 'strength in numbers' and more 'suck in numbers'.
If every one just accepts the fact that they suck and get over what ever aversion they have to be being shot down by other players, not only will the game get better over all, but most of us that suck may just evolve enough to 'not suck as much'.
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Originally posted by lazs2
They are frieghtened...
Winning isn't it.... risk free kills... not being shown up... that is what they are all about... they are just insecure... worried that in any kind of odds that don't overwhelmingly favor them... they will get spanked in front of "the world" and laughed at.
They see the "you suck" messages on 200 and don't want any part of being expossed.
I think thats it exactly. Saturday night, I was defending at A25, and a Rook P51 comes screaming in, unloads his rockets on some targets and screams out the other side heading north. I follow in a Niki trying to figure out when he is going to turn and make another pass at the base or at least engage me, hes got at least 3k of alt advantage and speed. He doesnt, he just keeps heading north and after about 5 minutes of chasing him I gave up and returned to the base to look for another fight.
You want to get rid of hording and timidity, kill the score page, leave the hit percentage for guns, and number of kills
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You want to kill the Horde at least from score standpoint, score with a muliplier(weight) based on odds.
If you are fighting in great odds, (There are more friendlies around you then Bandits) then the multiplier is less than 1 and your score is weighted less and will be lower.
If you are fighting in bad odds, then your multiplier greater than 1 and your score is weighted higher and you get a better score.
If you are in = odds then the multiplier is 1 and your score is what it is.
If this were the case then all the horde monkies wouldl have low scores and all the horde defenders will have high scores, thus rewarding people that actually fight. Then you might get a mentality in the community that wanted to fight rather than pad their score.
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Originally posted by mars01
You want to kill the Horde at least from score standpoint, score with a muliplier(weight) based on odds.
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This shouldn't be too tough to implement either, the radar display mechanism probably already keeps track of the total number of cons in proximity.
It would be more interesting if it applied to score and perk rewards. So the dribbler who piles on to a 50-plane vultch-fest in his P40B won't get squat for his trouble.
... Or ... maybe when the odds multiplier (Suck Factor) is calculated, it's tacked on to the boast message: "KingDweeb landed 4 kills in a Typhoon (Suck Factor: 0.2)" ... pretty much tells everyone that he got them vultching a defenseless base. Then watch people start ditching their landings to avoid the ignominy. Hehe ...
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I think it's funny people keep referring to the horde like it's some malicious demon out to destroy people's fun.
It's the natural effect of massive online gaming. You can't kill it, and it has no definate direction. Who's leading it? Armchair generals & toolshedders? Not quite.. they're off blowing up undefended bases. The horde begins when a fight begins to sustain itself and wander back and forth between bases. Like moths to a lightbulb, more & more fighters arrive and the porkers zip around the area doing what they do. Eventually, the fight becomes 1 sided enough to become a vulch. Sometimes, people stop vulching long enough to drop the town while a few random guys bring troops. The fight now moves to another part of the map or between the next base series, and continues.
Only time there's an organized horde is during joint squad ops, and honestly, I've flown in several of those... and being diverted to a different target every 10 seconds for a few hours... sucks... which is probably why they're kinda rare nowadays.
The only way to get rid of the horde effect is to lower the overall player numbers (not gonna happen), or enforce player density per square mile (not gonna happen).
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The strat certainly needs fixing
As does the scoring.
If you fly bombers and actually bomb fighter hangars, vehicle hangars, CVs and the sort, you wont even make the top 100 for your efforts. The "secret" to bombing is milkrunning an undefended factory or the sort, then your score will show a remarkable hit percentage.
The horde mentallity amuses me. If a bunch of folks move in to vulch a base, its funny from two perspectives.....how rapidly your teammates will go after an enemy you've sent to Earth missing a wing or on fire. No honor among theives, I suppose. And, the enemy will continue to up from this capped field and complain rigorously how unfair such an attack is on Channel 200. Nevermind *they* commited this very same act only an hour prior.
Vulchers stink when you're the one being vulched. But its certainly A-OK when you're the one scoring the kills doing so!
:lol
This game seems to be stuck in some sorta funk. Maybe its just me. Its the same maps, same broken strat and the same complaints (mostly valid). I sure hope something develops soon, that cures some of this stuff.
Or maybe I just need to go for a Aces High break and come back refreshed?
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Airplanes play too big a part in AH.
Half the horde dweebs would on the ground if the ground battle played the part it did during real wars.
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The "secret" to bombing is milkrunning an undefended factory or the sort, then your score will show a remarkable hit percentage.
Its not a secret, its a built encouragement. You want better strat yet complain about the score being biased against bombing fighter hangars. Fighter hangars aren't strat, those factories are.
The problem is folks think that they should be able to up their three little drones and have some measurable impact on the 'war'. They realize that if they bomb 'factories' no one would even care and they wouldn't get the attention they are starved for. So 'strat' is left to the milk runners and the heavy bombers get pressed in hitting tact targets like fighter hangars, or ack starring, or cv suiciding etc...
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if you have a game where u have fighters and bombers and ground vehicles and then..
Everything... all the strat and "winning" is all dependent on destroying the ability for the fighters to have a base...
This is what you get. the gv's and fluffs are just that... fluff. their only importance is how much affect they have on fighters.
the fighters are just caught in the middle... they don't want to affect gv's or fluffs but they are the targets of the gv's and fluffs...
The fluffs are entry level.... they pay the same as everyone else but don't have to own or know how to use a jstick... they never last... they become fighters or leave but there is allways a new guy willing to take their place and wonder why he isn't respected.
I would be happy if there were huge cities and some smaller ones in each country that once flattened and surrounded by gv's..... would "end the war" airfields could still be opperational in the countries that lost. Airfields could not be bombed out of commission because their parking spot had a hole in it. They could be "overrun" tho.
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I would be happy if there were huge cities and some smaller ones in each country that once flattened and surrounded by gv's..... would "end the war" airfields could still be opperational in the countries that lost. Airfields could not be bombed out of commission because their parking spot had a hole in it. They could be "overrun" tho.
This would be a much better war IMO. Think about it, a city is the lynch pin. Lose the city and you lose the surrounding fields that defend it. Then you would have big fights over the cities rather than airfields.
Create a bunch of cities with VH and spawns all around it, make is so you need drunks, tanks and gvs to actually take city zones. If you take a zone you get the defending fields. Put so many VHs and Fields that porking fields is a waste of time, make the need to focus on the city zones. If you want the fields take the city. This could generate more ground warfare, which would require more close air support, which would require more fighter cover. Work the fluffs in and you have a winner.
You could also make it so the troops would have to fight each other, back dooring your way into an actual first person shooter when the time is ready. IMO - Think of the money you could generate by linking the two games.
You bring in infantry and back them up with Tanks etc.
Boy for a furballer you may be onto someting Laz.:D :aok
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its a numbers thing........
not a skill thing............
everything follows the path of least resistance...........
if there is no skill requirement to reach your objective then no skill will be aquired.
Off topic........... whilst airfield attrition is the focus of the land grab then airfields will be attrited.
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Originally posted by mars01
Create a bunch of cities with VH and spawns all around it, make is so you need drunks, tanks and gvs to actually take city zones. If you take a zone you get the defending fields. Put so many VHs and Fields that porking fields is a waste of time, make the need to focus on the city zones. If you want the fields take the city. This could generate more ground warfare, which would require more close air support, which would require more fighter cover. Work the fluffs in and you have a winner.
You bring in infantry and back them up with Tanks etc.
Laz and mars, I think this has been discussed in the past, and alot of us thought it was a good idea, i think thats why we have towns now attached to bases, remember when the map rooms were on the bases?
Mars I would take your idea one step further, and make all the citys and strat objects captureable and possibly add a few more to a zone. when all the cities and factories are captured then that zone falls and all bases within that zone are captured.
even that idea would not prevent someone finding it necessary to drop all the hangers at a base unless additional hangers where added to the bases. then suround the cities and factories with large bases with Fighter bases and seperate bomber bases with vehicle bases
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even that idea would not prevent someone finding it necessary to drop all the hangers at a base unless additional hangers where added to the bases. then suround the cities and factories with large bases with Fighter bases and seperate bomber bases with vehicle bases
Yeah I agree, thats why you put enough fields and VHrs to make dropping all hangers almost impossible or just make them permanent.
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guys I found this oldy but goody
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=966&highlight=alternative
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Yeah I there have been versions of this, I don't think the environment was as ripe as it is now for it tho.
I guess this all hinges in what happens when HT gets done with CT. Will he spend all his time within CT, will the MA be more bareable after CT is out, will he return the the MA and revisist gameplay to improve on it, etc.
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Its all the BK's fault the suck started there and then they created the hord!
rat bastages:furious
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Its all the BK's fault the suck started there and then they created the hord!
LOLH It's really all Hubs fault, an admitted fluffer!
Originally Posted By:Hubsafluffer
I've flown bombers since I started playing back in AH1, when we ONLY had 1 bomber.
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RenMAW? Is that you?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
RenMAW? Is that you?
:rofl
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The other night was in fights with jaxxo...very cordial on both sides...towards the end he made a comment that struck me. he said "i see you are getting tired of the horde and are furballing. good for you."
As i thought about that i remebered my 10 year flight sim history.
circa 1996 a buddy at a party tells me about a ww2 flight sim air warrior. i download it that night...
i of course only fly a spit and for almost 6 months get about 10 kills. cant figure out why....one day im 1v1 with a guy named Cajnn and i accidentally drop flaps..he takes a shot that wrecks them in down position...suddenly im outlooping him. for next 6 months im killing alot of folks 1v1 but have to be right on their 6 to do it. I join a small squad Birds of Prey cause of the name. still have yet to land..cant do it. squaddies sit on runway and try to talk me in....no luck...
One day a year later i download game at work...shhhh..at lunch i up a flak and i think the game is broken..everything moving too fast. litle research shows that there is somethign called frame rates. work is 30..home is like 5. i get a new computer and suddenly i can see tracers!! i can shoot at angles!! I CAN LAND!!!
i start flying the p38 and learn the flaps...i am now winning dueling contests and 2v2 ladders with my buddy Onyx. About this time Air warrior allows base taking and BZ get smashed. sqaud grows as guys that want to help country join...cycle thru all AW versions and now we at aces high.
Point is i did the fiter thing and it gets old alone...whoever undestands the flap and trim setting s for their plane wins...it is more like chess then a game...set series of maneuvers to get adv...in here if you know how to work flaps and a little trim...you should win everytime in da.
No you need both hordes and fiters to keep this game interesting. i have done both and neither alone are satisfying. thre is always a furbal but the truth is it is probably its not one you want to be in if you care about dying. if you type too much and guys get a kick out of seeing you flamed so you dont want to die..so be it. In air warrior...the argument was between "altmonkeys" and "b-n-zers" and "knnife fighters"...
if all base taking disappeared tomorrow we would have another group to jump on in here.
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Someone must speak the lang of truth.
You want big furballs everywhere ?
Fix the point system because its wrong.
Why someone with bombs and rockets in attack mode to
engage in furballs when he expect nothing in air stats ?
Why a furballer in fighter mode help in a field attack when he have nothing
to take ? he even loose points from ammo loss even if he hits target ;)
Correct the point system in a mixed one.
In the same fly (no fighter or attack modes),killing planes you take points in
air stats killing ground targets and gvs you take points in attack stats.
Like this a pilot after he make his duty to his country (and taking points) he
turns to the closer furball ( taking points And Kills ) and not returning to his base cause he has nothing to take in a furball exept to eat dust and even loose his attack points ;)
Also the existing point system offer nothing to Heroic Pilots who fight until the End taking 5-6 or 10 kills who Noone see and have no points to take,
because they finally die, and their victories become lost in the darkness,
out of memory.
How you expect Furballs when the point system make suckers and give
nothing to the the pilots who like only to fight ?
These are the Real Furballers.
Give them points for every Kill Landed Or Not. Report Every kill as it happens
as before some years and bring them up in the bright world of glory.
Like this you will dissapear timid pilots and runners and more
You Will See AH become a huge Furball Arena.
ps (ofcourse give them something more if they land them but not big difference).
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SYSTEM used to report every kill as it happend and that was fine for a couple hundered people in the arena but when we started getting 600+ in the arena the system reports was a constant scroll and you couldent even read the radio cause it went by so fast
HMM Hey HT put the system message back the way it was and have it play on 200
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
RenMAW? Is that you?
-- Todd/Leviathn
UM I dont get it? splain please
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