Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WMLute on April 16, 2006, 02:58:20 AM
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The following episode, found in Thunderbolt! by the World War II USAAF ace Robert S Johnson, is one of the best examples available of the use of energy tactics (diving extension/pitch-back) to defeat a double-superior opponent. The encounter described is a mock combat engagement over England between Johnson (P-47C) and an unidentified RAF pilot in a new Spitfire IX. The Spitfire had about a 25 percent better power loading and nearly a 25 percent lower wing loading. The Thunderbolt's only performance advantages were faster top speed, greater acceleration in a dive (because of the P-47's heavier weight and higher density), and better roll performance. Johnson, undoubtedly one of the greatest natural fighter pilots of all time, used his roll performance defensively to allow himself the chance to build an energy advantage in a diving extension.
We flew together in formation, and then I decided to see just what this airplane had to it's credit. I opened the throttle full and the Thunderbolt forged ahead. A moment later exhaust smoke poured from the Spit as the pilot came after me. He couldn't make it, the big Jug had a definite speed advantage. I grinned happily; I'd heard so much about this airplane that I really wanted to show off the Thunderbolt to her pilot. The Jug kept pulling away from the Spitfire; suddenly I hauled back on the stick and lifted the nose. The Thunderbolt zoomed upward, soaring into the cloud-flecked sky. I looked out and back; the Spit was straining to match me, and barely able to hold his position.
But my advantage won only the zoom-once in steady climb, he had me. I gaped as smoke poured from the exhausts and the Spitfire shot past me as if I were standing still. Could that plane CLIMB! He tore upward in a climb I couldn't match in the Jug. Now it was his turn; the broad elliptical wings rolled, swung around and the Spit screamed in, hell-bent on chewing me up.
This was going to be fun. I knew he could turn inside the heavy Thunderbolt; if I attempted to hold a tight turn the Spitfire would slip right inside me. I knew, also, that he could easily outclimb my fighter. I stayed out of these sucker traps. First rule in this kind of a fight: don't fight the way your opponent fights best. No sharp turns; don't climb; keep him at your own level.
We were at 5,000 feet, the Spitfire skidding around hard and coming in on my tail. No use turning; he'd whip right inside me as if I were a truck loaded with cement, and snap out in firing position. Well, I had a few tricks, too. The P-47 was faster, and I threw the ship into a roll. Right here I had him. The Jug could outroll any plane in the air, bar none. With my speed, roll was my only advantage, and I made full use of the manner in which the Thunderbolt could whirl. I kicked the Jug into a wicked left roll, horizon spinning crazily, once, twice, into a third. As he turned to the left to follow, I tramped down on the right rudder, banged the stick over to the right. Around and around we went, left, right, left, right. I could whip through better than two rolls before the Spitfire even completed his first. And this killed his ability to turn inside me. I just refused to turn. Every time he tried to follow me in a roll, I flashed away to the opposite side, opening the gap between our two planes.
Then I played the trump. The Spitfire was clawing wildly through the air, trying to follow me in a roll, when I dropped the nose. The Thunderbolt howled and ran for the earth. Barely had the Spitfire started to follow-and I was a long way ahead of him by now-when I jerked back on the stick and threw the Jug into a zoom climb. In a straight or turning climb, the British ship had the advantage. But coming out of a dive, there's not a British or a German fighter that can come close to a Thunderbolt rushing upward in a zoom. Before the Spit pilot knew what had happened, I was high above him, the Thunderbolt hammering around. And that was it-for in the next few moments the Spitfire flier was amazed to see a less maneuverable, slower-climbing Thunderbolt rushing straight at him, eight guns pointed ominously at his cockpit.
Much thanks to Robert Shaw 's Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering from which I took the above passage.
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if i am reading this correctly, he stick stirred and then extended to reverse back round and HO from a high 12oclk.
sounds just like yucca the no skill lam3R!
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Just some bad *** barrel rolls. Then when the spit was regaining his bearings the jug dove out. At high speed the spit couldn't do an instantanious turn verticle like a jug. So jug did a quick vert scissor. Up really fast. Then down really fast on the spits 6. My guess. Nice write up lute.
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Were it in AH, the Jug woulda been shot down at the very first zoom climb.
Hizookas have a way of doing that.
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And Johnson also mentions a following play with a spit 9 - this time after he had a paddle blade prop installed and his Jug insanely overboosted, he could even outclimb the spit.
Overboosted to 72" manifold pressure (as he claimed) , I can believe that.
The problem with these anecdotes is that they are always about a great pilot meeting some anonymous guy and whipping his bellybutton with an inferior plane. Happens hundreds of times in AH every day.
Bozon
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Of course 'new' Spit IX doesn't tell you a lot either, unless it means the early F IX with the Merlin 61. Also no mention at all of an altitude.
Guy did what was best, he dove, Spit can't match a Jug in a dive.
Definately sounds to me like he 'extended', reversed and set up a HO situation.
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*quote*
We were at 5,000 feet,
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Tks missed that.
Well if it was the early F IX (Merlin 61), 5000ft isn't exactly anywhere near its best alt (Jug neither for that matter).
Be more interesting with a Merlin 66 Spit though, especially a clipped one.
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I don't fly the spitfire in the game because its to easy, no challenge, fly the P-38, consequently i get shot down alot:O
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don't fly the spitfire in the game because its to easy, no challenge
Stop flying it in the horde, take it where you are outnumbered and then let me know if it is too easy...:rolleyes:
While the write up is nice, whoever the spit pilot was, could not have been all that good. He fell right into playing the jugs game.
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Everything is easy to fly in a horde. A jug included.... Still, a spit is by far easier ot fly in a horde than say for example a 190-a8 :D
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Everything is easy to fly in a horde. A jug included.... Still, a spit is by far easier ot fly in a horde than say for example a 190-a8
Hehehe nothing is hard in the horde, well maybe fighting your own guys for kills is the only thing.:D
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Originally posted by mars01
Hehehe nothing is hard in the horde, well maybe fighting your own guys for kills is the only thing.:D
The greatest challange is to beat them to the vulch. If you manage to pop yourself infront of you teammates guns and killshoot him while you vulch, I think that deserves extra points.
Bozon
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Not to mention the fact that the Spitfire was not shooting at him when it was close to his six so we don't know if it had guns on him.
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There is no reason that a Spitfire should do better in a horde than other planes better suited for it. The horde favors fast, well-armed planes over everything else, first for getting to the enemy before other like-minded horders, and second for taking the enemy down before the others can get to it.
Typhoons, La7s, and Doras really fill these roles well. Any plane can do well in a horde if flown by someone with excellent aim and good eye toward angles, but fast, well-armed planes certainly help.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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The problems with hordes are generally you get caught... Or there wouldn't be a problem with them.
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Originally posted by mars01
Stop flying it in the horde, take it where you are outnumbered and then let me know if it is too easy...:rolleyes:
Thats true of any airplane take it were your outnumbered your probably gonna die:huh
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Thats true of any airplane take it were your outnumbered your probably gonna die
No take a spit and you will probably have a chance. Learn to live in a spit outnumbered and maybe you will learn the skills to fly other planes while outnumbered and then you can take the horde training wheels off for good.:aok