Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wolfala on April 17, 2006, 02:38:12 PM
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Interesting story, something funny happened to my dad on the way to work the other day. He drives a BMW - nothing special in the way of equipment, just a leased 5 series. Anyways, they do oil changes every 15,000 miles or so. So the alert went off on the annunciator panel that service was near. Not 20 minutes later, his phone rings. "Hello, this is Manhatten BMW - we're calling to remind you that you need a service." He's like WTF, I was going to call, and they said "your car called us." Which begs to question, what other data is being sent out?
And now back to our regularly scheduled DRM discussion.
Wolf
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Did you know that the planned next generation OBD-systems will feature a transponder, which will send data to roadside receivers. This is supposed to be done to ensure that emission control systems are working properly. This equipment will become mandatory just like the current OBD-II/EOBD systems. It will also enable law enforcement to control speeds. I'm totally sure that in 10 to 15 years there will be speed governors utilizing GPS on all cars. They are allready testing them in Sweden.
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Considering the BMW is leased, I don't blame the dealership one bit for doing this. They're just looking out for their equipment.
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Systems like that have been used in forests machines and timber trucks for quite a while, now they are available to almost all new trucks. The natural next step is to have them in passenger cars.
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Apparently, the future is to have cars that can communicate directly with the dealers, and have diagnostics performed remotely. Dealers could make sure parts were in stock before the car arrives, and software updates could be done without even bringing the car in for service. (just learned this from the BMW forums)
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Yes, I wouldn't be worried about them at all. One can disable suchs a system if he's so conserned about privacy. What I'm worried about is the goverment mandated systems, which are supposed to be for the "common good".
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You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to fix.
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Will the software do the same as the dealer? Insist you have >insert leaking part/seal/etc< and *must* have it done? Turning a $29 service turn into a $1,200 one?
Friend went thru that with his Chevy truck. Went in for some sort of recall service, the tech comes out with 3 pages of things that "should be" fixed. He declines but asks for that list of "issues". Takes truck to his usual mechanic who informs him the tech was commission hunting. Do these guys have quotas or something?
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Here's a fairly compelling reason to track the manner in which a motor vehicle is operated.
The 1998 NHTSA report "Traffic Safety Facts 1998 Annual Report" reports 41,471 fatalities and 3,192,000 injuries, 414,960 of them serious.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Here's a fairly compelling reason to track the manner in which a motor vehicle is operated.
We are adults and we should know and accept the risk in driving. It is not the state's responsibility to protect us. If you can't accept the risk involved in driving then don't drive.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Here's a fairly compelling reason to track the manner in which a motor vehicle is operated.
Half a million Americans die of heart disease anually. Is that why Safeway tracks my grocery purchases with their frikkin club card? To make sure I eat a balanced and healthful diet?
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I made a perdiction to myself that :noid would soon be appearing in this thread, but I never admit I'm wrong.
I never am.
Of the 410,000+ serious injuries, how many were "totaly serious"?
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Originally posted by Sandman
Here's a fairly compelling reason to track the manner in which a motor vehicle is operated.
I wonder how the statistics would look if you had madatory vehicle testing like every other civilized country?
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Originally posted by mora
I wonder how the statistics would look if you had madatory vehicle testing like every other civilized country?
The cars that the drunks drive would be in better condition just prior to the crash.
50% drunk driving, 17% speeding, 8% right of way, 8% crossing center line, running a stop sign, 2.6% improper passing 2.5%,... vehicle condition is a minor percentage of accident cause.
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I've read posts from people who have had their GM warranties cancelled without warning or hope of appeal as soon as any dealer even suspected that the owner was racing their car, so it wouldn't suprise me if the car called home if the speedo exceeds100mph, followed shortly by an official letter notifying the owner that the warranty is now void.
It's just a matter of time before the car notifies the police if speed limits are exceeded, resulting in self-generated speeding tickets. The DMCA as written would make it a felony to tamper with any digital information transfer not intended for consumer use, so you can't even intercept or shut off the transponder even without new legislation.
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Do these guys have quotas or something?
A friend of mine worked the servie counter at a dealer. Great sales job, they come to you. Anyway, he did make a comission on what he upsold. Boss would come in and give random quota's. X amount of oil changes today, I'll give you $50. X amount of brake jobs this week, I'll give you $100.
Strange
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Originally posted by LePaul
Will the software do the same as the dealer? Insist you have >insert leaking part/seal/etc< and *must* have it done? Turning a $29 service turn into a $1,200 one?
Friend went thru that with his Chevy truck. Went in for some sort of recall service, the tech comes out with 3 pages of things that "should be" fixed. He declines but asks for that list of "issues". Takes truck to his usual mechanic who informs him the tech was commission hunting. Do these guys have quotas or something?
Kinda sorta. 95% of dealership employees that you see are on commission. Even the oil change & lube techs are commission. The only people that are not are office clerical, warehouse, & maintenance staff. There are exceptions to the rule, but they're rare.
I'll go out on a limb here, and say you're more likely to get screwed during repairs than when you buy a new car. When you buy the car, you've got the salesman, their manager, the finance rep, and the GM who want to screw you. When you get a repair, you've got the service writer, service manager, mechanic, parts counterperson, and parts manager hoping your car is as broken as possible since they all get a piece of the pie to varying degrees. Also, they get paid more off of "customer pay" repair jobs than warranty repair jobs, at least with Toyota (others may not, but I doubt it).
Warranty work depends on the service manager & service writer. Some will warranty next to nothing (and make more $$), some will warranty damn near anything. It depends on their mood, how much they're gonna make that month, customer attitude, etc, etc.
edit: Rip, I see the car calling in a parts order as very beneficial to my business. People already don't show up for maintenance, even after they've come in and had the part ordered themselves. If the car calls in something beyond normal, heavily stocked maintenance part, it will serve as another method to build up a parts department's obsolesence. It's one of my family business niche markets, and I may just score a few points off of it :) There's 2 problems with it though... there is no standard software for dealerships, there's 3 major brands (2 still based on old solaris systems & the same front ends for the last 5 years), and now dozens of small startups that just popped up in the last few years. Second, out of the 20k dealerships in the nation, there are still hundreds without any computers at all.
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Originally posted by Pei
We are adults and we should know and accept the risk in driving. It is not the state's responsibility to protect us. If you can't accept the risk involved in driving then don't drive.
You do not have a right to exceed the speed limit nor to ignore other posted lights and signs.
If a tracking device will reduce moving violations, I'm all for it.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The cars that the drunks drive would be in better condition just prior to the crash.
50% drunk driving, 17% speeding, 8% right of way, 8% crossing center line, running a stop sign, 2.6% improper passing 2.5%,... vehicle condition is a minor percentage of accident cause.
Are the accidents really so thoroughly invetigated? How can you know afterwards if poor suspension or brakes have been the cause or contributing factor? Is every accident resulting from improper modification listed as being caused by vehicle condition, and not something else? From personal experience I can say that I've never seen as much vehicles in dangerous mechanical condition or improperly modified as in the US.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You do not have a right to exceed the speed limit nor to ignore other posted lights and signs.
If a tracking device will reduce moving violations, I'm all for it.
How would this differ from, say, police cameras in high crime neighborhoods? If police cameras are proven to reduce crime by tracking high drug traffic and violence-prone areas, (and considering that we do not have a right to deal drugs or shoot someone at our leisure) why would you not be for them?
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I can't really believe all this whining about screwing dealerships. When you are a representative of a company, you can't make service and repairs like Bubba does. If a defective part is found the customer needs to be informed and the part needs to be changed. If you don't want quality service, then take your car to Bubba.
Besides all the extra repairs are a pain in the bellybutton for the dealerships. They make the best profit out of basic service and brake jobs.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
How would this differ from, say, police cameras in high crime neighborhoods? If police cameras are proven to reduce crime by tracking high drug traffic and violence-prone areas, (and considering that we do not have a right to deal drugs or shoot someone at our leisure) why would you not be for them?
Maybe because it would also violate the privacy of people who are not making these crimes?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
How would this differ from, say, police cameras in high crime neighborhoods? If police cameras are proven to reduce crime by tracking high drug traffic and violence-prone areas, (and considering that we do not have a right to deal drugs or shoot someone at our leisure) why would you not be for them?
There is no shortage of surveillance equipment in public areas.
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I'm really shocked that Chairboy hasn't dropped into this thread to speak of the invasion of privacy that one must endure (or the road we're heading toward) in a leased or private vehicle.
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Does this BMW black box record the wear and tear on hood bras and recommend replacement when the elastic has worn down to an unsafe level? If it doesn't this must be considered a gross oversight on BMW's part.
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My car has a transponder in it already. Primarily to help in the advent of theft. I have a number to call and within minutes they can get the location of the car.
Or if there is a medical emergency, and I am in the middle of nowhere, they can get my location to the paramedics/authorities.
The car also records information about itself the dealership can read, but as I understand it, this is more normal than most people are aware of. Many cars store information the dealership can read.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm really shocked that Chairboy hasn't dropped into this thread to speak of the invasion of privacy that one must endure (or the road we're heading toward) in a leased or private vehicle.
Just to be clear... I do not advocate placing things like GPS devices in cars to track where you've been. That would be an invasion of privacy, IMHO.
The speed at which you drive is not a privacy issue. It is a public safety issue.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Just to be clear... I do not advocate placing things like GPS devices in cars to track where you've been. That would be an invasion of privacy, IMHO.
The speed at which you drive is not a privacy issue. It is a public safety issue.
A camera in a high crime neighborhood is a public safety issue for those who are potential victims too. ;)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Is that why Safeway tracks my grocery purchases with their frikkin club card? To make
Actually for me, Safeway tracks Elvis Presley's purchases, and Albertsons, Spiro Agnew's
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
A camera in a high crime neighborhood is a public safety issue for those who are potential victims too. ;)
Like I said... I really don't care about cameras in public areas.