Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Krusty on April 19, 2006, 12:00:09 AM
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I was posting too much in the "need help" post, so I realized I needed to make a post just for updates to this skin.
Picking up where I left off, in reply to Citabria:
Those panel lines were really messed up. I went back to the original and re-did them (in fact, spent most of today doing panel lines and rivets). Let me post some more recent images.
Let me know if you think this looks like metal or not. (I did this before I read your tip).
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145422102_12.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145422121_13.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145422077_11.jpg)
Hopefully the panel lines aren't so ugly now, as they're closer to their final opacity, and not so in-your-face.
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Very nice!
I found a webpage the other day that shows some tips to make it look ..shiny.
http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/articles.php?action=viewarticle&artid=13
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Got any others? That wasn't too helpful :(
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Really? I did something similair just to your screenshot..
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seems to work well, but is it purely a stationary/screenshot effect?
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All I did was highlight with white like that webpage instructed. But also added blue and red at a very low opacity.
I haven't been able to try this on a skin at home..this computer at work doesn't take very good screenshots.
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The link in question took a simple grey primer color and simply dodged certain parts of it. The end result looked like crap. Sorry to the guy doing it, but it's true. I've seen several "BMF" skins in IL2 that look the same. It's just ugly. On the other hand, something that told me perhaps what areas would have what colors would be nice, and what kind of highlights I'd need, as well. Citabria gave me a couple of tips on this. I've yet to start re-working the metal, but I know I have to do something.
As-is, I think what I've got is better than that IL2 suggestion, and I put a lot more work into it too :P There's no less than 3-4 gradients in each wing/fuselage/part, plus a special layer on top of that!
Dodged grey still looks just that, grey. Not metal. You have to trick folks into seeing metal, rather than "white".
Any and all tips to that end I'd love to have, as this is my first BMF plane.
EDIT: Also I realized I'm using the default materials. The default skin is painted, not metal, so that's probably throwing me off a bit too. I need to take the D40 materials and use that, I guess!
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Okay I played around with Citabria's suggestion, and I think it helped (at least a bit) but I still don't know if it's "done" done. Also used the D40's material.txt file instead of the paint-favoring default d25 file.
These files are large and NOT reduced, I didn't want to ruin any detail/color.
EDIT: Rabbit is a low-res place-holder until I can re-create it properly.
I need to re-install bright (reformatted not long ago, lost it) so please ignore the photoshop 8-bit conversion.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145498953_9a-1.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145498967_9a-2.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145498984_9a-3.jpg)
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Before and After quick reference:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145422121_13.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145498953_9a-1.jpg)
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Do you have a *material* text file in the folder your working on?
material.txt
should read
0.302,0.302,0.302,Ambient
0.439,0.439,0.439,Diffuse
0.000,0.000,0.000,Emissive
0.945,0.894,0.812,Specular
23.330,Power
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Well the default 47D40 (a bare metal plane) has:
0.400,0.400,0.400,Ambient
0.600,0.600,0.600,Diffuse
0.000,0.000,0.000,Emissive
0.000,0.000,0.000,Specular
0.000,Power
Whereas the default 47D25 (a painted plane) has:
0.361,0.361,0.361,Ambient
0.400,0.400,0.400,Diffuse
0.000,0.000,0.000,Emissive
0.122,0.122,0.122,Specular
15.000,Power
I'm using the top at the moment. I might just steal the P38 materials file.
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Its a bit to much blue. If you haven't yet, make 3 different highlight layers. a thin feather brush white, a med feather brush white, and a wide feather brush white. at 100% then adjust your highlight opps lyres around along with the blue lyres opps till you find the sweet spot. try and have the thin feather brush layer with more opps , then a bit less on the med layer then low low on the wide. ad some shading here and there and you will be gleaming. just play with those opps you will find it. what you don't want is to much blue. or too heavey a highlight. also put a texture filter into the mix.
I'm at work so I just did a quickie
example to show what I mean .
I exaggerated the effects "i.e." bluing, highlights, and shading so you could see what's going on adjustment of the Opps will get you were you need to be
GL
RaVe ~S~
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I can tell this process is going to take a long time :(
Ooookey-dokey. I will work on it some more.
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lots of layers for metallic. there's more than one way to skin this cat you just need to fool around with the basics then elaborate on them.
you will be surprised how many different looks you come up with.
its hard to pick what's the best there are so many options to pick from the skies the limit.
:)
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Better? (Showing last 2 images for comparison, new one is on the bottom).
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145422121_13.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145498953_9a-1.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145557722_9b-1.jpg)
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C'mon folks, need "Hate it" or "Love it" posts! :)
I'm done with the skin except for the rabbit detail and the metal effect. I've added some weathering and a few stencils and such, and all the rest of it is there. Just need to finalize it.
I appreciate all comments, even if they're negative (but constructive!)
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Looks great. I think the anti dazel area good use a little chipping. But other than that it's really nice. Like the way you adapted the bomb chucking raven (or crow).
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Okay let's talk about paint chipping. On the default skin I notice a lot of chipped weathering, especially on the leading edge of the cowling and the leading edge of the wings. This is a full paint skin, though, and that's more believable.
Do you think there would be THAT much chipping like on the leading edge of the tail stabs? On the red paint I mean?
I should add some on the anti-glare area, but how well were these planes maintained? I know they kept the metal fairly clean (waxed it down, in some cases, to keep the top speed nice and fast), but I have no idea how worn they got on painted areas.
Just going by images, it doesn't look like they get TOO faded/chipped, but the pictures I've found are zoomed out (not close in).
I'm up for opinions on how heavy to chip/wear the paint.
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I would like to see just a hair more highlight and a touch more shading on the edges .
At this point its a matter of personal taste regarding the shine effects. Its your call, but over all its looking good IMHO.
Did you incorporate a texture layer?
On metal effects I have found for my personal taste that they help make the metal shine look a bit more metal like for some reason.
looking good :)
~S~ RaVe
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I have a texture layer but it's more evident on the darker underside, it gets almost 100% washed out on the upper "shine" areas.
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Target you were right. I added a bit of paint wear and tear on the cowl ring and cowling flaps and a little on the anti glare and the red stripes. It's subtle but it's really better off than without.
Originally posted by MotleyCH
Do you have a *material* text file in the folder your working on?
material.txt
should read
0.302,0.302,0.302,Ambient
0.439,0.439,0.439,Diffuse
0.000,0.000,0.000,Emissive
0.945,0.894,0.812,Specular
23.330,Power
Motley, I used this in a test and I like it more than the default, only I think it's just a bit TOO shiney. What would I adjust to lower that? The "Power" line?
EDIT : never mind, in-game it looks a lot better than in the skins viewer. Thanks Motley!!
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Semi-final preview with new material applied.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145581702_9d-1.jpg)
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The beating the paint took really depends on what type of strips they upped from. Tarmac won't do much, so slight weathering on the leading edges and some exhaust staining is fine. Chipping on the anti dazzel is more of a maintenence thing. I don't think they repainted the panels all the time so I guess light chipping is fine.
Aircraft in the Pacific (coral strips) or North Africa (sand) took a much heaver beating. Take a look at some Spit MK5 Trop or Hurri 2C's, or any Marine Corsairs.
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(http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=2020072)
omfg MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THIS PLZ
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I don't think I can.
One note: On that the wing shape is relatively uniform but the light reflection glare is not -- it greates a false sense of geometry. Like holding a tin can up sideways under the sun, the glare goes all the way from end to end, and doesn't just stop and round itself off at each end, unless the shape of the surface changes too.
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you need to shade in the right spots to compensate for the glare.
play around with it .
just do it on new layers as you know im sure, so if you dont like it you can trash it.
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I'm really struggling with this part.
Something like this?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145642071_9e-1.jpg)
Stars: Old wing (from last screenshots)
No stars: New wing
Used default material and the high-gloss that I'll use for the final version (it's easier to see in the low-gloss one)
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i think the left is too bright, but that is just my opinion.
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I agree. Left wing has too much glare. The right wing is shiny but doesn't have the glare.
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The lower left wing is a good base.
now from that point try to add more shading
to the edges of the wing do it heavy on a separate layer you can always turn down the opps get radical on it.
if you did you highlights on a separate layers like I suggested turn down the opps on the highlight its a bit to "HOT" then add more opps to the texture layer.
its ok if it washes out in the highlight its more for the shaded areas.
see if that works out for you.
~S~ RAVE
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Are you talking shading as in tones? Blue/grey? Or as in shadows (darker spots around the glare, usually greys)?
Here's a closeup of the long-awaited rabbit nose art, and a slightly-reduced-glare screen shot. One problem with the left wing/right wing was that the sun was toward the left, and so it looks like the right is less shiny, but the in-game glare was there at different angles.
Rabbit:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145651033_final_rabbit.jpg)
I'm getting closer. I actually kind of like the way it's looking now. Most of the process I was like "okay... okay... okay" but then when I started tweaking this last setup I was thinking "Okay!! Now THAT looks good!" so I'm happy about my progress. I don't know what it was, but something just "clicked" with this last attempt.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145651070_final_metal.jpg)
EDIT: While I'm fine-tuning the metal (I think I'm close to done) this would be a good time for any nit-picks and the like, any errors in markings, size, wrong angle in relationship to mars and venus, the planets aren't aligned for the type of anti-glare I used, and so forth.
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that looks good. for me i was talking about the "reflection" on the left wing, it was so white it obscured everything else.
since we dont have real reflections in AH i think it looks better without the extreme glint from the "metal"
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Ah, half of the "washout" was from the real-time in-game glare from the materials file. I toned down the materials file a bit for that last screenshot.
I'll wait for any other comments/feedback before submitting, but I think I'm done now (finished up some minor things just after posting that screenshot)
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Originally posted by Krusty
Are you talking shading as in tones? Blue/grey? Or as in shadows (darker spots around the glare, usually greys)?
yes darker spots around the glare ....I use black at 100% then turn it down to were I like it.
your metal is looking good from the screens I'm seeing on your last post
I like the wabbit too
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Of course, if I see anybody using my skin, and they kill me, or get away, or otherwise thwart me, I will mutter to myself "ooooooow, that wascawwy wabbit!"
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Originally posted by Krusty
Motley, I used this in a test and I like it more than the default, only I think it's just a bit TOO shiney. What would I adjust to lower that? The "Power" line?
EDIT : never mind, in-game it looks a lot better than in the skins viewer. Thanks Motley!!
That was from the default P47-N material file..don't thank me:)
Looking great BTW:aok
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Well thanks for pointing it out, nonetheless, it was a big help.
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total nit pick on what is really shaping up well but in these latest screenies i find the stripes on the horizontal tail planes a little too opaque. the eoevator 'crease' isnt very crear and the elevator is swamped by the red.
possibly just cut a very fine and dark line across the red stripe and the join, or emphasize it in some clever skinnmaker type way.
feels like the whole tail section is a static glued on object.
vertical stab looks clear enough. maybe its the lighting and glare of the tail setion metal look?
could we see a shot of the ail close up with elevs either fully up or preferably down to further persue this?
just a nit pick, like i said, great work.
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Good catch. It did look a little 2D. I fleshed it out a bit (and the other red painted parts, as well!) and tried to get some screenshots in-game.
It's hard to get screenshots of the tail because of lighting, and the camera has to be aimed at the cockpit at all times. I got a couple of distant shots (the right side of image) which better show the lighting, and I got some close-ups with poorer lighting (the left side of the image) for details.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1145661171_stabs1.jpg)
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that a huge improvement, especialy on the rudder.
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Well if there are no more tweaks I'll get it ready for submission.
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The shadowing on the tail looks excellent Krusty! Great work.