Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: bkbandit on April 19, 2006, 04:00:35 PM
-
F4U-1C
F4U-4
Me 163
Me 262
Spitfire Mk XIV
Ta 152
Tempest V
Ar 234B (Bomber)
Are these the only perked planes? And how does htc determine whats perked and whats not.
Out of this list the f4u4 sames out of place. There where 2800 f4ud produced and 2360 f4u4 produced. Doesnt same very rare to me. There wasnt many c model corsairs produced but i bet there where more c models around then the typo. I think this perked planes list needs to be changed some. Im going to stat hunting to see what model planes where produced in greater numbers and post them.
What planes do you think should be on the list(no dont suggest planes that give you the most problems in m/a).
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/f4u_corsair.html
-
planes are perked for different reasons. performance is one factor, usage is another, and it is all up to HTC
the F4U-C originally was not perked, but it was being used SO much (close to 30% of the main arena at the time) it was perked.
it almost has nothing to do with how many were produced in real life. in real life the C.205 there were VERY few of. same with the LA-7 with the 3 cannons.
search the forum and you will find hundreds of threads discussing perking and un-perking different planes. it has always been a highly contested debate
-
Performance also plays a factor.
If the F4U-4 were free everybody would fly it.
I think the 109 K4, La7, Spit 16 and P51 should be lightly perked.
-
So if htc see too many of a certain plane they perk it. That kinda sucks. So if u are a stable mustang guy and all of a sudden every wants to fly mustang they perk it. Now wat do u do. This is suppoesed to be some what accurate thats y i figured that production #'s would come into play some what.
There aint no real reason to perk p51, a number of guys that fly it are new. !09 is another plane that u got to noe somethin about before u fly it but a super lite perk wont hurt nothin, theres alot other models to fly. But la7 and spit 16 need to be perked. Thats all i see in h2h, they need to be perked so guys can learn how to play. I swear that the most annoyin ***** when ur lookin to fight and see 4 spit 16s and a la7. Perk them planes, i seriously forgot that there r other spitfire models not only the 16.
I fly f4ud and offline i mess with the f4u4. I doubt that everyone would fly f4u4 they rather fly a spit 16 .I see nothin truely special that it needs to be perked, it accelerates better and is faster but isnt such a monster step up in performance that it needs to be perked. I need to fight jap planes like the nik which i could have sworn was perked, upgrade my equipment.
-
Originally posted by bkbandit
There aint no real reason to perk p51, a number of guys that fly it are new. !09 is another plane that u got to noe somethin about before u fly it but a super lite perk wont hurt nothin, theres alot other models to fly. But la7 and spit 16 need to be perked.
New guys fly the Spit 16 and LA7 also. Perk Bombs.
-
Originally posted by bkbandit
So if htc see too many of a certain plane they perk it. That kinda sucks. So if u are a stable mustang guy and all of a sudden every wants to fly mustang they perk it. Now wat do u do. This is suppoesed to be some what accurate thats y i figured that production #'s would come into play some what.
There aint no real reason to perk p51, a number of guys that fly it are new. !09 is another plane that u got to noe somethin about before u fly it but a super lite perk wont hurt nothin, theres alot other models to fly. But la7 and spit 16 need to be perked. Thats all i see in h2h, they need to be perked so guys can learn how to play. I swear that the most annoyin ***** when ur lookin to fight and see 4 spit 16s and a la7. Perk them planes, i seriously forgot that there r other spitfire models not only the 16.
I fly f4ud and offline i mess with the f4u4. I doubt that everyone would fly f4u4 they rather fly a spit 16 .I see nothin truely special that it needs to be perked, it accelerates better and is faster but isnt such a monster step up in performance that it needs to be perked. I need to fight jap planes like the nik which i could have sworn was perked, upgrade my equipment.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Go to the TA and ask Widewing to give ya a demo of what a -4 can do.
Up a spit XVI and see if you can even ping him.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by bkbandit
Out of this list the f4u4 sames out of place. There where 2800 f4ud produced and 2360 f4u4 produced. Doesnt same very rare to me. There wasnt many c model corsairs produced but i bet there where more c models around then the typo.
Most F4U-4s produced were built post way I believe. In any case the sheer capability of the F4U-4 justifies its price.
What do you mean "typo"? Typhoon? If so you'll find that tere were more than ten times as many Typhoons built as F4U-1Cs. About 40 Ta152s, 200 F4U-1Cs, 275 C.205s, 410 N1K2-Js, 700 Tempest Mk Vs, 957 Spitfire Mk XIVs.
-
Just as an aside, only 12 Ta152s or so (small number, something in the teens) made it to a front line unit.
-
for me you could perk almost every plane, but lightly to most and heavily to the bests
-
Originally posted by Henrique Jitsu
for me you could perk almost every plane, but lightly to most and heavily to the bests
Because new players in Spitfire Mk Is enjoy being blasted by Spitfire Mk XVIs while clueless as to any defense so much that they'll subscribe just to experience it.
-
I still say that if the F4U-4 has to be perked the P-51D should be, too.
-
Originally posted by Karnak
Because new players in Spitfire Mk Is enjoy being blasted by Spitfire Mk XVIs while clueless as to any defense so much that they'll subscribe just to experience it.
lol, how about an inverse perk cost - based on fighter rank.
The higher your fighter rank, the higher perk costs get. So a noob with rank 2000 will pay 0 for all rides, a rank 600 will pay a few perks and top 100 will pay even more perks. Some rides such as the 262 will have to get a minimum perk cost.
Every new tour this resets the rank perk factor for each player as your rank is reset.
This makes the guys with perks (top fighters) pay with the perks they CAN produce and annoys the score potatos at the same time! :D
noobs will have spit 16s/p51/etc for free, hotshots will have to risk their (otherwise useless) perks. How about it?
Bozon
-
People will just crash and auger 15 times to be able to get into a 262...
Have > 3000 fighter perks, not because I'm any good but because I almost never use them. On rare occasions I fly the 262.
-
that just prooves my point. What are you and the like of you need the perks for? if you can earn them then you should have no problem spending them. I fly the spit 14 like it was junk without even looking at the perks.
I agree that rank is problematic since you can lower it by augering. Maybe just K/D is a better criterion but only counting kills that somone got on you (like you can see in the score pages). No one will get shot down intentionally just to lower perk prices - it takes time, it hurts their ego, they get not "wtg" for landing kills and loose the perks on their current ride.
The only way around this will be to get vulched repeatedly - both lowering your rank and increasing that of the vulcher...
It needs some more thinking to perfect, I agree.
Bozon
-
Giveing the noobs better planes would even out the game a bit but at the same time they wont really learn nothin. If i stood in that spit 16 and never jumped over to the corsair(d model) I dont think i would have been able to mature as a pilot any. I started to adopt different tactics and the spit 16 couldnt give me wat i needed. I still have more to learn to use the corsair more effectively but if i didnt switch i would have probably stayed a dweeb 16 pilot with out the chance to advance my game. Im greatful for the dweeb 16 jokes, made me get out of that thing and into somethin with some balls. Thanks AH.
If you guys could dictate the perk list what would it be. The 51 dont need to be perked. Its fast, and at high speeds it turns great but you have to noe how to apply ur strenght to the opposing enemy fighter. I fly 51 aswelll as corsair. And if u dont met a specific criterion u will most likely lose or need the enemy to mess up and let u back in. When i first started i tryed mustang(huge mistake) and i didnt noe what i was doin, noe i understand more how to apply the strenghts of the plane so that i can rack up some kills.
I would add nik, hurri c,spit 16, la7. Only reason hurri and nik are there r cause of the cannons, if corsair c wasnt perked i wouldnt really care. F4u4 is fast but the d model feels better in the turns. The only thing to counter the turn fighters is wit speed so taking away the fast planes just makes everybody fly spits.
-
Spit 16 is not a dweeb ride, nor is any other plane. The dweebery is in how you fly it. The problem in the MA is that we have 1945 planes and 1940 planes (the hangar queens). WWII was a long time for plane evolution so the performance and fighting-style gap is just to big.
For most planes we have the important models of their line, so putting a light perk on the likes of 190D, 109K4, F4u-4 or P51D will, at worst case, when you totaly run out of perks, force you to fly... those horrible 190A8, 109G14, F4u-d or P51B for a sortie or two.
Spit 16 is in practice a late 1943 plane. It is just that good and no way to justify perking it.
I'm very well aware that none of this will ever happen. Especially when we have TOD comming. I just like to imagine what if scenarios.
Bozon
-
Originally posted by Saxman
I still say that if the F4U-4 has to be perked the P-51D should be, too.
Well, if the P-51D performed as well as the F4U-4, it would be perked. But, it doesn't and, naturally, isn't. Considering that the F4U-4 is the best prop driven fighter in the game, it's properly perked. If it were the F4U-4B, it would carry a higher price than the Tempest.
As it is, the P-51B is probably better than the P-51D...
My regards,
Widewing
-
I think the 109 K4, La7, Spit 16 and P51 should be lightly perked.
- Blooz
They'll never perk the 51. You can only imagine how many players it must bring to this game.
-
Alot of guys want to perk 51d, i guess cause its fast. bozon and saxman, why do u want to perk 51.
-
Performance.
While the 4-Hog is overall superior, (long been of the opinion that the F4U-4 was about the best piston-engine fighter of the war) the 51D is still near the top (probably second or third) of the American rides in capability. And maybe putting a bit of a perk on her would help thin out the numbers of those kamikaze porking Runstang dweebs who cut and run the first sign of an opponent at co-alt in a 1vs1. I'm about an average stick overall, maybe slightly towards the "above" side of the line, but I can't count how many times I've squared off with a 51 1v1 in a 1-Hog only to watch him nose down and run like hell. The perk may not eliminate ALL of 'em, and could encourage some of the remainder to play it more timid, but a perk cost would also REDUCE the number of chicken-sticks who don't want to get shot at that are upping a dragster that can pretty well run at will.
And I have to disagree with you about the -4's turning ability. I've always thought the C/D responded like total pigs in any kind of maneuvering (especially compared with the F4U-1). The 4-Hog feels more responsive by FAR than the Charlie and Delta.
-
I would hate to see the La-7 perked. Im just figuring out how to turn fight in it and I get shot down to much. Perks would make it alot more tempting to run instead of fightin till the end. I love to intercept low buffs in the La-7, it gets you there fast and the cannons do a quick job of takin out engines!:D
-
Funny thing is alot of planes try to run from me when im in 51. They try to dive from me or they just try to wep there self out of trouble. Another thing that i find funny about certain fights is that for example, im fightin a zero, im in a mustang or corsair. I clearly cant turn fight him, but when i fight the zero "my way", b&z or just useing my speed to beat him the zero will get mad cause i dont want to turn fight him. The best ones is that when they try to jump u in 2 turn fighters and u get ur bellybutton out of there lookin for friendlys and they call u a ***** cause u dont want to fight him The mustang isnt the only plane that trys to dive away and run when they noe they blew the fight. I have fought 109s 190s and typos that do the same thing(the thing is that i can go after then in 51). Once i has chaseing this typo with a f4ud and all he did was run get ditance and try to go for a head on shot. I denied him the ho and he calls me a coward. I noe he has 4 cannons and i get 6 50s, im not dumb. Alot of guys get mad when u dont fly there fight. Thats like if u fought a zero in a f4u1 and went into sustained turn fight, u noe u not winning. Diving and getin ur bellybutton out when ur introuble is one of the options in the 51. Just like if ur in a zero, u noe u cant chase anybody or dive after nobody but u could just go into tight circles. Its preetyy hard to dive on a target that swirlling around now stop, i cant complain cause i cant except him to just let me kill him, his game is the turn and thats wat he wants. There aint really nothin u could do, if u cant catch him fly a typo, but then u cant turn like the corsair and then u might be the one diveing away. The fact that i could just get away when im in trouble is the main reason people complain about it but they dont fly fast fighters, they dont want to give up there turning but they want to take away my speed. Im pretty sure that the majority that make a living off diveing will just get into a typo or 190, then people will want to perk that.
-
Originally posted by Saxman
And I have to disagree with you about the -4's turning ability. I've always thought the C/D responded like total pigs in any kind of maneuvering (especially compared with the F4U-1). The 4-Hog feels more responsive by FAR than the Charlie and Delta.
The P-51D isn't going to get perked, no chance whatsoever. So, if I were you, I'd stop wringing my hands over it and concentrate on things I can change.
As to the various Hogs, My experience leads me to draw several conclusions.
F4U-1... Turns flat turns very well, but rather weak in the vertical.
F4U-1C... A bit sluggish compared to the others and worst turning of the group.
F4U-1D... Turns about as well as the F4U-1, but is markedly better in the vertical. It's the best of the -1 series overall.
F4U-4... Similar turn to the -1D, but vastly superior in vertical. Much greater power allows it to sustain combat maneuvers without excessive E loss. Thus, it feels more responsive.
Given equal pilots, there is no better fighter in the game than the F4U-4, be it a high-speed engagement or stall-fighting down in the weeds.
When engaging a fast moving P-51 with a Hog, you need to get the other guy to commit to a fight. If he thinks you're gonna be trouble, the typical P-51 driver in the MA is going to bug out. So, you need to provide incentive for him to start burning off E. Suck him in, reverse him and kill him. P-51s have two chances against Hogs in a maneuver fight...Slim and none.
See this thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174173&pagenumber=3) for some interesting F4U films.
By the way, there appears to be a fuel-burn bug with the F4U-4. It burns considerably more fuel in MIL power than in Combat power....
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/F4U4-Fuel-Flow.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by Karnak
Because new players in Spitfire Mk Is enjoy being blasted by Spitfire Mk XVIs while clueless as to any defense so much that they'll subscribe just to experience it.
i dont know... in wwiionline you cant get the good stuff until you get rank, noobs spend ages running around as riflemen with no binoculars, driving the worst tanks, worst aircraft, until they gain rank for the good stuff.
that doesn't put people off there, im sure they have many more subscribers than AH.
-
Originally posted by Widewing
By the way, there appears to be a fuel-burn bug with the F4U-4. It burns considerably more fuel in MIL power than in Combat power....
My regards,
Widewing
water injection?
same thing in p47
-
Originally posted by Furball
water injection?
same thing in p47
I was thinking the same thing... Water displacing fuel, thereby reducing fuel consumption...
I checked the F4U-1's Specific Engine Flight Chart, and you can see that this is indeed the case.
(http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/F4U/F4USEC.GIF)
Note that the AH2 P-47D-40 has water injection and its fuel consumption goes up with WEP, not down like in the F4U-4 and P-47N. However, the F4U-1D, also with water injection, is different in that there is no change in fuel flow rate when engaging WEP (and the chart shows it should go down in WEP).
So, we have three different fuel flow models between the F4U-4, P-47N, P-47D-40 and F4U-1D with only the first two being correct.
Plane Engine
P-47N R2800-73 or -77
P-47D-40 R2800-59
F4U-1D R2800-8W
F4U-4 R2800-18W
All water injected...
My regards,
Widewing
-
Perk the cannon birds! The Spit16 seems to be the new La7, it seems to have no weaknesses....climb, roll, guns, power, etc
-
Originally posted by bkbandit
Alot of guys want to perk 51d, i guess cause its fast. bozon and saxman, why do u want to perk 51.
I'm against perking planes by performance per plane, save the jets. Also, I'm not for perking the p51D specificaly, I'm for (lightly) perking all late war rides which includes the P51D.
Not worth discussing since it's been posted may times before and will never happen (try a search on the forums).
Bozon