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General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: FTJR on April 22, 2006, 04:25:56 AM

Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 22, 2006, 04:25:56 AM
Hi,
I haven't posted here in a while, just thought I'd work slowly on yet another 51. Since the 51 line up is full.  Rogerdee kindly loaned me his panel lines.

What do you think of the metal effect? Also any/all suggestions welcome.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: rogerdee on April 22, 2006, 05:14:22 AM
now  that  looks  sexy  and its  got roundelsonit  too:aok

its looking great  and i think the  metal  works well,but   remember  th wings were painted silver  i believe.great  work tho
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Kazaa on April 22, 2006, 06:59:15 AM
Love the rudder !
Title: Re: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Fencer51 on April 22, 2006, 08:12:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FTJR
Hi,
I haven't posted here in a while, just thought I'd work slowly on yet another 51. Since the 51 line up is full.  Rogerdee kindly loaned me his panel lines.

What do you think of the metal effect? Also any/all suggestions welcome.


Looks great!

Remember that while the lineup is full, Skuzzy has stated that they will still except skins of equal quality and rotate them into the lineup over time.

There are so many good P-51 out there to be done, like this one.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 22, 2006, 11:25:47 AM
Thanks guys,

Rogerdee, the wings were silver? I missed that. Can you point me to a source for that? In the meantime Ill go back and look.

I am also having trouble posting other images, I get a message saying i've already posted that image, when I haven't.  Can someone help with that please.


umm the original pic has changed (how'd that happen???)


Regards
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Krusty on April 22, 2006, 11:52:46 AM
I'm by FAR the last person you want to ask, as I've only just recently finished my first metal skin.

However, I spot one discrepency.

You have a nice reflective shine on the top of the fuselage. Whether this is "painted on" or part of the materials file, it looks good.

There's no similar highlight on the wings. It creates a logical break, for me. I think you have to "paint on" a highlight on the wings' upper surface as well, just to make it look uniform.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: rogerdee on April 22, 2006, 01:09:51 PM
i kow it was posted  in  different   p51  discussions  that the wings were painteded silver  and not bare metal,if u search  for festers  big beautiful doll i am sure it is remarked  on in that   or  i am sure  guppy  will have  posted  it some where.
  i know that  big beautiful doll at  duxford  has painted  wings
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: B@tfinkV on April 22, 2006, 01:20:43 PM
very good work, rudder is a shining feature.


I tend to agree with krusty on the wing shine, if you look close up you can see a lot of glare coming off the droptank, but not the wing just aboive it.

im not a skinner though and i dont kow how the relection model is coded in game.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Pooface on April 22, 2006, 02:12:03 PM
very nice! :)

yup, roger is right, the wings were painted silver, to give best effect with the laminar flow wing. it was actually filled in and smoothed off too, so panel lines wouldnt be extremely visible. the fuselage did stay bare metal though :)
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Krusty on April 22, 2006, 05:15:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rogerdee
i kow it was posted  in  different   p51  discussions  that the wings were painteded silver  and not bare metal,if u search  for festers  big beautiful doll i am sure it is remarked  on in that   or  i am sure  guppy  will have  posted  it some where.
  i know that  big beautiful doll at  duxford  has painted  wings


Silver is a pretty damned shiny material :P
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 22, 2006, 08:56:38 PM
Again thanks for the posts.

Krusty, I will look at it. I am thinking the difference may be the light.?


Rogerdee, Poo, Bat, ok thanks I will also do a search on that. I am under the gun at the moment, have to go to work in an hour or so.

Appreciate the comments.

Regards
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 24, 2006, 05:27:12 AM
Updated Photo, I 've toned down the panel lines and rivets. Added some colour to the top wing.

Any comments?
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 24, 2006, 05:33:09 AM
another shot.... hmmmm needs some work doesn't it.. Comments on how I might correct it? Thanks
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Krusty on April 24, 2006, 10:48:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FTJR
another shot.... hmmmm needs some work doesn't it.. Comments on how I might correct it? Thanks


It looks like you have a solid color for all parts of the fuselage. To make it truly look metal, you can't use just 1 color.

There are countless ways of making it look more like metal (it seems to be a very subjective art). The basic run-down is that you use lighter colors on the parts that would be glaring, and darker colors on the lower surfaces.

You're basically painting on the sun glare. How you get there depends on how you do it. For example, however, in that screenshot you need to take a narrow band in the middle of the wing, from the cockpit to the wingtip, and make it lighter in color. Use new layers so you can start over if you don't like it.

Do the same for the fuselage.

This is the hard part with bare metal skins. I just finished my first, as well, and ran into this same problem.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 24, 2006, 10:56:48 AM
Alright, thanks Krusty.. I will get on to it.

Cheers
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 25, 2006, 12:00:43 PM
Ok. a bit of adjusting..
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 25, 2006, 12:01:46 PM
and another, comments please
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Krusty on April 25, 2006, 12:04:25 PM
Now we get to the subjective part. What I'm about to say is 100% opinion.

Good start! Now, whatever you just did, do it "more"! Make it a bit more noticable.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 25, 2006, 09:08:54 PM
Thanks Rusty, ok a little more work into the mix. Comments?
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: rogerdee on April 28, 2006, 01:07:51 PM
i love  you  opps no i mean i love that skin.
its  looking really great and  its got  roundels  on even  if they  are  from down under:rofl


your doing  a really good  job   ,now if only i can get my enthuisasium back
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Krusty on April 28, 2006, 01:22:55 PM
I'm not sure why... but I don't love it.

I can't put my finger on what part(s) of it keep me from loving it, but something is.

Maybe somebody else might give better suggestions.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on April 29, 2006, 03:52:48 AM
Hey Rogerdee, thanks :) I am still tweaking, I wont make festers standards but its something to aim for.

Krusty, no problem. I actually feel the same. I am still striving for something more.

It could be a while before I come up with another picture.


Regards
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Krusty on April 29, 2006, 12:28:18 PM
I think that perhaps my "not loving it" stems from 3 areas.

I've looked at it, and let it sink in, then looked at it, and let it sink in again.

I think I've pinpointd 3 areas, 1 small, 1 medium, 1 large, that don't "mesh" for me.

small: The anti-glare nose panel -- right by the prop it has a kink. This is probably from the top piece meeting the fuselage side piece, you have curved the OD on the side but not the top (you need to round the edge of the top so that it matches the side)

medium: The shadow on the elevators is too large. Too obvious. Stands out. There's also a gap between the panel line and the shadow, which distracts the eye. I'd say tone it down more like the aileron shadow.

large: This I think contributes to the "not loving it" most. I've thought about it, and I *think* my largest problem is that the top of the wings, where you might normall get a highlight, grows darker. My mind wants it to grow lighter than the rest of the wing, as light glare usually makes things blow out rather than dim out.

I *think* the wings are what keep me from loving it most, but the fuselage is pretty good. I'd suggest re-tweaking the tops of the wings.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on May 01, 2006, 07:12:54 AM
Hi Krusty, Thanks for the comments. I've worked on the areas you mentioned. Still a fair way to go. RL is interferring at the moment :)

Is it heading the right direction?
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Pooface on May 01, 2006, 07:32:26 AM
it's looking better. one suggestion i could make is to do the panel lines a bit better. right now they seem to only be in one colour, and they're quite furry.

if you do another panel lines layer, lighter, to give it depth, and also, just try to sharpen the lines a little.

another suggestion, and something that also seems to be making it look a little odd is that the colours are all very similar all over. try to do loads of lighter and darker patches all over the metal, to make it look less like it's a mirror

cant quite put my finger on it, but i think if you try those, it might make it easier to figure out what's wrong with it.






and do the RL stuff first you muppet! :rolleyes: :D
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on May 01, 2006, 09:43:19 AM
Hi Poo,

Thanks for the comments, I actually made the second panel line set a similar colour, since the original was, imho, way too obvious, but perhaps I've gone too far in the opposite direction.

I still have a lot to do with the panel colours themselves. I plan to give it a lot more variation. I am just working on the large things first then the nitty gritty stuff later.

Appreciate the imput.


Yeah the wife INSISTS I do RL first, she has got her priorities wrong :)
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on May 03, 2006, 09:27:35 AM
comments? tks
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: rogerdee on May 03, 2006, 10:37:15 AM
i think its looking real goodid sy tho they the tail plane panel lines are too dark  and personal i think the  blue letters  shouldnt be so faded but i think its  looking great
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on May 05, 2006, 10:59:06 AM
Rogerdee, missed that, thanks, also the letters are in light med blue, thats the way it comes out.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Krusty on May 05, 2006, 11:22:55 AM
tail panel lines still too visible, but now the shadow/light layer is also too visible. Simply bump the opacity on that layer down to the same level the other panel lines layer is.

You see what you did with the gun panel on the wing toward the front of the screenshot? Just take a few panels here and there (at random [EDIT: Randomly spaced on the airframe I mean, not just the wings]) and do the same with slightly differing shades. Then I think you'll be set.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Kev367th on May 05, 2006, 12:16:00 PM
I always start off with a gradient fill to the rough size.
Then using deform tools, finesse the fill to the final shape.

Should be a lot easier on a Pony 'D' square wings etc than a Spit.

If your using PSP can email the two fills (one wings, one for fuse) I use
 to you.

This is one I've been playing with for a long, long time, but it has fallen behind.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Kev367th on May 05, 2006, 01:01:00 PM
Adding a very faint distressing layer and a slight blue tint layer can help also.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Stang on May 05, 2006, 02:14:34 PM
Awesome metal effect there, Kev.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on May 05, 2006, 08:14:49 PM
Krusty, ty for the imput, actually there is some other metal shading on the right side of the fuselage but I didn't want  post too many photos at once.

Kev, thanks for the tips, and offer, you have a PM. Oh and I love that spit.


Cheers guys

JR
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: Kev367th on May 05, 2006, 09:22:07 PM
You have an email (hopefully, it's 3mb in size).

The layers

I put the tint layer over the metallic skin layers
I put the distressing layer over all the skin artwork but underneath the weathering layers.

Basically

- weathering layers
- distressing layer
- rivets and panel lines layers etc
- skin artwork layers
- tint layer
- basic fuselage colors/camo

For a camo based skin just lose the tint layer.

To deform the gradients once they are done use the mesh deform tool.

Hope these help.
Title: 2nd Attempt. 3 sqn RAAF/45
Post by: FTJR on May 09, 2006, 11:53:24 PM
Been a bit busy and am going away for a couple of weeks. Just another shot. Comments please, also is better to have the plane in the air or on the ground for purposes of  judging? Also is the time of day important?

My thanks to Kev for his help.