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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: stickpig on April 23, 2006, 12:00:51 AM

Title: ostwind armor
Post by: stickpig on April 23, 2006, 12:00:51 AM
Can an ostwind be blown up by just cannon fire?

We had an osti tonight that would not die after his turret was taken out.

I mean plane after plane load of 40mm from Hurri D's.... 5-6 spit 16 making multiple runs and emtying all ammo....LA's even dumping all thier rounds.

It became the talk of the room after about 15min's of everyone filling this Ostwind full of lead.  Finally had a Tiger kill him.


Now I've defended map rooms with an Osti, and had plane after plane tear me up but have nerver been killed until a bomb was dropped on me.

So can an Osti be blown up by just plane cannons?
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Arcades057 on April 23, 2006, 12:04:24 AM
Ostis can get hammered by P-51s.  I can't count the number of those things I've lost to aircraft of all types.  Heck, I've even lost a Tiger to a strafing run by a friggin N1K.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Kurt on April 23, 2006, 12:45:03 AM
I know the 30mm (err 37? I forget) in an osti will kill an osti in about 4 hits... Did it just the other night.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: nirvana on April 23, 2006, 01:01:20 AM
Figure you're basically shooting an armored chassis after the turret is gone.  Unless you hit the "ammo" you aren't going to blow it up, per se.  I've have a P51 strafe my T34 and blow it up before, so you never know.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Waffle on April 23, 2006, 02:44:20 AM
What's really fun (and challenging) is taking them out with  spit1 or hurri mk1!
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Slash27 on April 23, 2006, 05:04:27 AM
Anyone else have trouble killing an Osti with a HurrIID? I can kill a Tiger with less trouble than an Osti. As a matter of fact I cant seem to kill his turret with the 40mms even after repeated direct hits from straight above. Bad luck or am I missing something?
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Furball on April 23, 2006, 05:28:51 AM
.303 SHOULD be more effective at taking out ostwind turrets than just about anything.  Those are open topped turrets so there is no protection at all for the crew, a hail of 303 going in there would sure ruin anyone's day, but i dont know if it is modelled as such.

Trick to killing em (i havent tried in Hurri, but IL2 it works) is to come in from a 45 degree angle from above and shoot down into driver.

Failing that you can hit dead centre on the side armour.

Been a while since i did some GV popping but as far as i know nothing has changed.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: 68Ripper on April 23, 2006, 09:12:19 AM
Beware if I'm in the Osti! hehehe :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Meatwad on April 23, 2006, 09:36:50 AM
Last night I kept upping an M-8 and then when a plane tried to strafe me I would shoot them with the turrnet. I killed 4 or 5 lf them last night. Also landed 4 kills right after we took A19. One of them was a 110 I shot the wing off with my turrent :D
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: nirvana on April 23, 2006, 09:49:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Meatwad
Last night I kept upping an M-8 and then when a plane tried to strafe me I would shoot them with the turrnet. I killed 4 or 5 lf them last night. Also landed 4 kills right after we took A19. One of them was a 110 I shot the wing off with my turrent :D



That's what i use the T34 for.  Since the turret will rotate fast(er), and will go up high, it's good to get a few guys.  Sat in the indestructible on an enemy field for 10-15 minutes and popped them as they came in :D Ended up with like 10 kills when I died or something.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Brenjen on April 23, 2006, 10:28:28 AM
It's twitchy & there's no way to predict for certain what is gonna kill a GV. I had my Tiger killed last night at a port, I can't remember which, by Frylock in a C-hog. I had shot out his oil & given him a pilot wound on the first pass using my pintle gun, then a little bit later I'm looking for the LVT's spawning in on the base from the CV & I see him screaming in again 20's blazing in a real shallow dive ( almost level flight actually ); I lifted my barrel & started firing my turret mg getting ready to hit him with an 88 HE & I died while his plane was still in my sights. It couldn't have been a bomb. The only thing it could have been was 20mm from the front that killed a tiger! I would have seen if he fired rockets ( he didn't ) & his plane was still in front of my Tiger so no bomb ( unless he had a self propelled bomb lol )

 I P.M.'d him & asked him how he killed me, if it was a tank I didn't see or an L.V.T. or a bomb. He replied he was busy because I had given him a pilot wound. So I know what he was in & how I died. I gave him a & wrote it off as a glitch that occurs with GV's. Unexplainable ricochets off of the side of a panzer ( broadside 400 yards ) & you are killed with a single hit to the frontal armour ( while you are reloading & cursing the guy that made your rubber ammo )


 P.S. I'm not trying to say I think Frylock was cheating or gaming the game just to be clear. Just that really - REALLY wierd things happen when you're in a GV.

edit: it was a fresh tiger recently supplied & had only been hit with Frylocks previous 20mm pass
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Hoarach on April 23, 2006, 11:51:07 AM
Hurri D's cannons are also low velocity.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Donzo on April 23, 2006, 12:16:24 PM
I think that the damage you get is cummulative.  Therefore it is possible to kill anything with anything.  
If your damage is to the point where only X damage is needed to finish you off and X = one round from a chute's 45, should that round hit you, you die.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Kev367th on April 23, 2006, 12:19:54 PM
Sorry, the cumulative damage theory doesn't hold up, as ANY regular GV'er will tell you.

You can sit and hammer away at the same spot without doing ANYTHING.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 23, 2006, 01:06:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
It's twitchy & there's no way to predict for certain what is gonna kill a GV.  really - REALLY wierd things happen when you're in a GV.


]
would agree.

Gun rounds from a plane should rarely if ever destroy a GV outright.
Disable its gun, yes, Disable its engine, Yes, Knock a tread off yes.
Destroy outright. Rare.
The Very vast majority of Tanks. And german tanks in particular werent destroyed outright by aircraft guns (including the ILII) But by bombs.

What most commonly would happen is the Tank would be disabled and because of the complexity of fixing it couldnt be repaired easily byt he crew and unavailability of Tow vehicles they would be abandoned in the feild by the retreating germans.

Thus Tanks should only rarely be actually "destroyed" by an Aircrafts gunfire but rather rendered useless by damaged sustained without availability of repair (GV supplies)
Lacking that. Once a player decided to end mission. then the tank should be rendered destroyed as it would simulate the crew abandoning the vehicle

That being said.
Screwy things DO happen in this game when in GVs.

I've sat there and hit round after round into a tigers tread with AP rounds at point blank range which had no effect.
Yet I've also managed to take out the tread on a Tiger with the machine gun on an M3
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: JAWS2003 on April 23, 2006, 01:17:07 PM
If you kill the crew I think you can say you destroyed the tank. Large caliber cannons that were used for antitank duty can kill the crew inside the tank if the shell defeats the armor. High velocity armor piercing shells make a lot of shrapnel bouncing around inside the tank once they penetrated the armor.  That's what kills the crew.
 In my book if you kill the crew you can say you destroyed the tank. At least this is how it should be in AH.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: bj229r on April 23, 2006, 01:26:56 PM
I hit an osti from dead 6 at 400 yards, RIGHT where turret meets hull--he drove away, sans main gun--hit him twice more later..STILL didnt kill him...then , as with ALL Tiger missions, a puke in a 110 egged me;:cry
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: EN4CER on April 23, 2006, 03:23:12 PM
Sometimes your turret goes out with 1 ping and sometimes you get lucky and get an invincible turret with an Osti. Luck of the draw when it comes to Gving. They are a tough bugger to finish off though by plane. Best off bombing them or killing them by Tank.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Meatwad on April 23, 2006, 03:37:57 PM
speaking of chutes, I kept hearing this ping ping ping coming from somewhere. Turns out there was a guy that bailed out 1 foot from me trying to carjack my ostie. Well I tell you what, I backed over him and then ran his little skinny butt over
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: viper215 on April 23, 2006, 05:11:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kurt
I know the 30mm (err 37? I forget) in an osti will kill an osti in about 4 hits... Did it just the other night.



37 ;)
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Cr0ssEye on April 24, 2006, 01:35:35 AM
I use a niki alot at gv spawns. It won't out right pop a panzer or otsi but it will usually immobilize them. I always see the pintle on top blow off. sometimes on a third pass i will get the kill, but it is rare.  on the other hand
give me a 109 with gondola guns or a 110, and u can kill a panzer in 2 or 3 passes provided u come in from his six shallow and slow. ( lots lead right in the engine and he will always be immobilized on the first pass)
I have yet to see a cannon that will kill a panzer or otsi in one pass.
Some say the IL2 will but for me the lack of vision absolutely rules this plane out. ( most of the time when GV's are pressing hard there r also enemy fighters involved (that why i stick with the NIKI and forget the IL2)
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 24, 2006, 07:23:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JAWS2003
If you kill the crew I think you can say you destroyed the tank. Large caliber cannons that were used for antitank duty can kill the crew inside the tank if the shell defeats the armor. High velocity armor piercing shells make a lot of shrapnel bouncing around inside the tank once they penetrated the armor.  That's what kills the crew.
 In my book if you kill the crew you can say you destroyed the tank. At least this is how it should be in AH.


And the likelyhood of killing the entire crew every time would be?
You would stand a better chance winning the lottery.
And while it may have happened form time to time it was the exeption and not the norm

Its just too bad it didnt very often happen that way or the allies would never have needed tanks or tank destroyers

As I said before. the very vast majority of the tanks killed were done so with bombs. Not gunfire from aircraft. Including HV AP rounds.
The tanks were more often abandoned by the crew for reasons I already mentioned.

When a crew abandons a tank it usually means at least some of them survived
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: wipass on April 24, 2006, 08:44:19 AM
There appears to be no logic in killing an osti, panzer, tiger or T34.

I would dearly love to know how the software decides "blow up GV", it would certainly make it easier to accept the loss.

wipass
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: ghi on April 24, 2006, 09:21:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK


As I said before. the very vast majority of the tanks killed were done so with bombs. Not gunfire from aircraft. s

Rudel used ju87 with bk37 against tanks
Rudel developed new tactics for Panzerstaffels. He found that the best way to knock out tanks was to hit them in the back (T-34's rear mounted engine and its cooling system did not permit the installation of heavier armor plating) or the side.

Rudel's personal victories as a ground-attack pilot were achieved exclusively against the Soviets,  include:

518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft





Shot down 32 times. he survieved the war
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Kaw1000 on April 24, 2006, 10:35:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
Rudel used ju87 with bk37 against tanks
Rudel developed new tactics for Panzerstaffels. He found that the best way to knock out tanks was to hit them in the back (T-34's rear mounted engine and its cooling system did not permit the installation of heavier armor plating) or the side.

Rudel's personal victories as a ground-attack pilot were achieved exclusively against the Soviets,  include:

518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft





Shot down 32 times. he survieved the war


Now thats impressive!!!
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Lye-El on April 24, 2006, 04:29:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ghi

Shot down 32 times. he survieved the war


Must have been bad modeling....Or he never crossed friendly lines.  :D
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Brenjen on April 24, 2006, 04:32:20 PM
Good thing he wasn't flying in here...pilot wound everytime for me :rofl
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: Slash27 on April 24, 2006, 05:06:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Cr0ssEye
I always see the pintle on top blow off.


When did this start happening?:huh


HurriIID will disable a Panzer in one pass and sometimes explode him.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: jaxxo on April 24, 2006, 05:09:25 PM
"I mean plane after plane load of 40mm from Hurri D's.... 5-6 spit 16 making multiple runs and emtying all ammo....LA's even dumping all thier rounds." sounds like a typical sorty in the ma for me :)
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: ghi on April 24, 2006, 05:23:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lye-El
Must have been bad modeling....Or he never crossed friendly lines.  :D


  Here more about HANS ULRICH RUDEL (http://members.aol.com/ab763/rudel.htm)
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on April 24, 2006, 07:00:57 PM
His book "Stuka Pilot" is highly recommended.  Great reading.
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: jaxxo on April 24, 2006, 08:40:26 PM
i got a film today of me getting hit by at least 4 field ack an m8 and a tiger plus various planes and i sat there for a good 3 minutes without exploding...everyone knows the model is suspect...just live wioth it cuz it aint gettin fiexed anytime soon...gvs are for goofin around
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 24, 2006, 09:20:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
Rudel used ju87 with bk37 against tanks
Rudel developed new tactics for Panzerstaffels. He found that the best way to knock out tanks was to hit them in the back (T-34's rear mounted engine and its cooling system did not permit the installation of heavier armor plating) or the side.

Rudel's personal victories as a ground-attack pilot were achieved exclusively against the Soviets,  include:

518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft

Shot down 32 times. he survieved the war


And this disabled them
Title: ostwind armor
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 24, 2006, 09:21:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lye-El
Must have been bad modeling....Or he never crossed friendly lines.  :D

hmmm 32 times.
Sounds like a suicide dweeb to me ;)