Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: mentalguy on April 25, 2006, 06:28:04 PM
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Which one is better.
Speed
Turning radius
Ect.
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14 is better in everything except turn and roll.
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14 is somewhat challenging 16 isn't .
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14 has better speed, better high alt performance. 16 turns better, rolls a helluva lot better, and I'm thinking climb is so close that you can't tell the difference.
14 is perked, though.
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Spit 14 can out run an LA at 10.0000000000000000001k:D :rofl
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Two completely different animals. Hard to compare them.
The planes were set up to fight in different alts.
Take the XIV above 20k and you have one of the finest hi alt fighters of WWII.
The spit XVI was set up to work at low alts. That's why it has clipped wings and the LF 266 Merlin.
Bronk
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In other words.. for AH, the Spit 16 is clearly better.
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Perk the 16! Unperk the 14! I want to see more 4's!
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give us an L.F. 14! make the sissies cry: :cry !!
:aok
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The 14 is a WEP plane. Once it runs out performance isn't spectacular at all.
At least the range is better than the 16 and 5 blades props add to the "coolness" factor imo.
Bozon
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Our 14 is not the ultimate one, neither is our 16 the ultimate merlin powered one.
But close.
The 14 is IMHO somewhat under the line in ROC and turn, but none the less a very fast and potent fighter.
The 16 is a nightmare to deal with :D
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Originally posted by Furball
give us an L.F. 14! make the sissies cry: :cry !!
:aok
NA want to make em cry . Give us the MK XII. Clipped wing ,low alt griff powa goodness .You wont even have to start your pc to hear the whine.
Bronk
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16 is easy to deal with, up a f4u and its no problem 90% of the time. The other 10% you are dealing with a competent pilot and you are gonna have a fun fight.
Nick172
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How can sissies cry if they're already flying spits ? :D
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14 guys run like hell
16 guys fight like hell
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Oh, I dunno.. I've been bore n zoomed by a fair share of the Spit 16 pilots I run into in the MA.
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Oh, I dunno.. I've been bore n zoomed by a fair share of the Spit 16 pilots I run into in the MA.
Yeah but these guys are easy kills since they cant fly a spit to start with.
Anyone in a spit above 6k should just go back to their P51s et-al. LOLH
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Im sure this has been asked before and I missed it...so call me kooky for asking....why's the Spit14 perked?
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Originally posted by LePaul
Im sure this has been asked before and I missed it...so call me kooky for asking....why's the Spit14 perked?
Maybe time to try it for a tour un-perked and see what happens.
Most newbs will still use the XVI because its a higher number, therefore must be better :) .
In the case of the MA the XVI is more suited to the low alt furballs anyway.
Maybe even time to try the Ta-152 free also, the only other really high alt performer (P-47N) is free.
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Originally posted by LePaul
why's the Spit14 perked?
The RAF is not allowed any 1944 or later free rides. HTC policy which you agreed uppon by clicking OK during installation.
Bozon
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At least the Spit 14 is on roughly even terms with the nonperked 1944-1945 planes.
The Ta-152 has the unique distinction of being the only perk plane that will be utterly dominated by 90% of the planeset.
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Originally posted by bozon
The RAF is not allowed any 1944 or later free rides. HTC policy which you agreed uppon by clicking OK during installation.
Bozon
Lol
Hence the XVI is at the same power levels as a 1943 LF IX, and not boosted to its late 1944 levels.
Even the LF IX started using 25lbs (limited numbers) in May 1944!
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Originally posted by bozon
The RAF is not allowed any 1944 or later free rides. HTC policy which you agreed uppon by clicking OK during installation.
Bozon
Or how about the fact that the MK XVI is the same as a LF IX .
Ohh and the LF IX went into squadron service in March of 43 at 18lb boost.
In March of 44 they were approved to use 21lb boost.
So basically the XVI is a "43" plane.
Bronk
EDIT damb it kev lol.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Or how about the fact that the MK XVI is the same as a LF IX .
Ohh and the LF IX went into squadron service in March of 43 at 18lb boost.
In March of 44 they were approved to use 21lb boost.
So basically the XVI is a "43" plane.
Bronk
EDIT damb it kev lol.
Lol,
One correction -
Wasn't 21lbs ( that was the XIV), LF IX started using 25lbs operationally May 1944.
Spit XIV started using 21lbs approx July 1944.
Whole of 2TAF Spits were given clearance for 25lbs or 21lbs (mark dependant) boost Dec 1944.
Funnily enough the ONLY Spit we have at its full wartime boost is the Mk I !!! LOLOLOL
Your right though, the XVI is a 1943 LF IX with an 'e' wing in place of the 'c' wing.
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http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-IX.html
I miss read it.
Bronk
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I hate to repeat myself but I'll do it...just this once :)
How bout a 1943 clipped wing low alt Spit and forget the 16? :D
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1103870266_41spitxiis.jpg)
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Maybe even time to try the Ta-152 free also, the only other really high alt performer (P-47N) is free.
have to admit, i was completely suprised when i found out the jug N was free following its release. i then thought it was free for the first month only... then realised it would always be free.
it really is suprising a 470mph plane which can fly and shoot forever is not perked, when such a mediocre plane in the TA152 is.
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i mess with the 47s sometimes(when i need to hit towns). I like the d model better, for me the biggest difference between the two is that the d has dive brakes and the n doesnt. The n is faster but u only c 470 at 30k and with ur wep blasting. And at 30k ur goin to be really lonely. They both feel heavy but the n rolls better and i think turns alittle sharper. But when u put that big nose down and u pack on too much speed the dive brakes save u from eating the deck. And that jug aint no turn fighter.
The spit 16 i feel should be perked at least some. It puts the other spits out of business. Only other spit u might run into is a seaspit. Since alot of the fights in ah happen below 10k i think the spit 16 is superior to the 14. The only thing that would keep the spit 16 from being perked is the ammo load. Against a set of lacs ur more likely to run out of ammo then takein them down. Its like 500 mg and 200 cannons, if u go 4 a snap shot u might be screwed later on. All the planes i run hav 50 cals and 200 rounds wouldnt cut it.
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Well they could leave the Ta 152 perked if only they gave it the performance it deserves not the sorry excuse of code it is now.
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I fly the Spit16 from time to time (my squad is considering going British planes only as well) and pretty much that is the only real plane to use out of the Spitfire family. Aside from maybe the SeafireIIc for carrier ops and the occasional 9 or I for fun.
I still think that a lot more rides should be perked with some kind of price. Even if in the single digits pilots can afford it and the new guys can rack up the perks to get the cooler rides faster rather than waiting nearly a month to try out the 262 in the MA.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
I fly the Spit16 from time to time (my squad is considering going British planes only as well) and pretty much that is the only real plane to use out of the Spitfire family. Aside from maybe the SeafireIIc for carrier ops and the occasional 9 or I for fun.
I don't know why the 8 doesn't get more use. I tried it and it's sweet. Biggest advantage is that it has longer range than the P47D11, plus can actually fight even with 100%. It also outturns the 16, at least from the little I tried.
Bozon
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Originally posted by bozon
I don't know why the 8 doesn't get more use. I tried it and it's sweet. Biggest advantage is that it has longer range than the P47D11, plus can actually fight even with 100%. It also outturns the 16, at least from the little I tried.
Bozon
Yep. I prefer the Spit 8 too. The 16 drivers try and turn with you and that doesn't work unless it's a really good 16 driver. The extra range helps as well.
The funny ones are the guys who try and out roll you in the 16 but always roll out level. I don't even attempt to roll with em, instead just anticipate where they'll roll level again and shoot em :)
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Yep. I prefer the Spit 8 too. The 16 drivers try and turn with you and that doesn't work unless it's a really good 16 driver. The extra range helps as well.
The funny ones are the guys who try and out roll you in the 16 but always roll out level. I don't even attempt to roll with em, instead just anticipate where they'll roll level again and shoot em
Yep me too. I have been flying the 8 a lot, if you count 8 hours a month a lot LOL. I love getting over confident 16 drivers. I always imagine their reaction back in the tower. "Uhhhh I thought the 16 was untouchable LOLH" And like Dan said, if you get a good 16 driver the fight is on and a lot of fun. :aok
I thought it was funny Sigma left out the 8 all together. Maybe you boys should start flying more spits and leave the 16 for the newbs :D.:aok
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I hate to repeat myself but I'll do it...just this once :)
How bout a 1943 clipped wing low alt Spit and forget the 16? :D
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1103870266_41spitxiis.jpg)
You just know it would get perked, and become the earliest (1943) perked plane in the game (by a long way).
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I hate to repeat myself but I'll do it...just this once :)
How bout a 1943 clipped wing low alt Spit and forget the 16? :D
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1103870266_41spitxiis.jpg)
See my first post in this thread.
Bronk
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Would settle just for the following:
SEAFIRE LF Mk. III
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9427/seafire3e1qe.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
SEAFIRE XV
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3444/seafirexve2vu.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
! :aok
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Originally posted by Bronk
See my first post in this thread.
Bronk
It was the reason I posted the photo again Bronk. Saw you were on the Spit XII bandwagon and figured I'd better join ya :)
(http://www.furballunderground.com/gallery2/data/media/18/MB882x2.jpg)
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It would be what?
Faster than any of the AH Spits on the deck with the roll rate of the XVI and the XVI gun package?
ROC?
1943 RAF, but a perked one :cry
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Originally posted by Angus
Faster than any of the AH Spits on the deck with the roll rate of the XVI and the XVI gun package?
It wouldn't have the same gun package as the XVI. It would have the same gun package as the VIII and IX.
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Originally posted by Angus
It would be what?
Faster than any of the AH Spits on the deck with the roll rate of the XVI and the XVI gun package?
ROC?
1943 RAF, but a perked one :cry
You think there'd even be the slightest chance of not perking a Griffon Spit, (even if it is a Mar/Apr 1943 one) after all the moans over a Merlin 266 Spit XVI?
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Karnak: Look at Guppy's picture.
.50 and a Hispano yes?
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Originally posted by Angus
Karnak: Look at Guppy's picture.
.50 and a Hispano yes?
20 2mm and 4 303 on a Spit XII
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I say give the 16 21lb boost and perk it. I wouldn't mind the extra power as long as it were perked. As it is now I just hate being 8k, diving after 1 plane (usually an la7) and climbing back up to 8k to have a spit16 on the deck with less E follow me all the way up.
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Raptor -
XVI
1) It would be 25lbs not 21lbs boost.
2) Perk it and it becomes another AH hanger queen. It may be a good allrounder buts it's nowhere near being good enough to survive in the MA perked.
3) WEP only lasts 5 mins then your back to a standard 18lbs. Interestingly Spit pilots routinely exceed the 5 mins 'advised' NOT mandatory WEP limit. In one case for over 30 mins.
Merlins were very robust motors, on the rare occasions a Lanc would lose one shortly after takeoff it was unknown for the pilot just to push the other threes to the 'stops' for the rest of the flight.
XIV
Should be given 21lbs to make it worth its perk price.
XII
Same as the XVI, would hazard it wouldn't be in the top 10-15 speed demons, and thats its main attribute. Was for chasing down early model 190's, not D9's or late model 109's that are all free in the MA.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
i mess with the 47s sometimes(when i need to hit towns). I like the d model better, for me the biggest difference between the two is that the d has dive brakes and the n doesnt. The n is faster but u only c 470 at 30k and with ur wep blasting. And at 30k ur goin to be really lonely. They both feel heavy but the n rolls better and i think turns alittle sharper. But when u put that big nose down and u pack on too much speed the dive brakes save u from eating the deck. And that jug aint no turn fighter.
The spit 16 i feel should be perked at least some. It puts the other spits out of business. Only other spit u might run into is a seaspit. Since alot of the fights in ah happen below 10k i think the spit 16 is superior to the 14. The only thing that would keep the spit 16 from being perked is the ammo load. Against a set of lacs ur more likely to run out of ammo then takein them down. Its like 500 mg and 200 cannons, if u go 4 a snap shot u might be screwed later on. All the planes i run hav 50 cals and 200 rounds wouldnt cut it.
yea the 47D doesn't have dive brakes i hope you know they are dive flaps which help pull you out of a dive at compression speeds which in the first place you shouldn't be going that fast on an attack run. If that thing had dive brakes it would look like an over blown SBD:t But then again the D11 is probably the best 47 in horizontal manuveralbility and the N the best at the vertical. I myself prefer the D11
Also if you can't take down lanc's with the 16's ammo load then you are using to much ammo i find lancs a lot easier to take out just put like 25 cannons into the elevator and it will flop up like a fish or you can take it out with like 5 cannons into the face. And the guns are great for snapshots for if you run out of ammo doing a snpashot then its not a snap shot. in a snapshot you really should tap the trigger then set up for another shot for thats all the time you get. Plus you should be able to get at least 5 kills with the load out i bet hoarach could get like 15kills MISTER AWWW ONLY 15KILLS TO LAND DANG PW STILL HAD 8 CANNON AND 1400 50 CALS left yeeesh leave some for me :):rofl he scored 2 more kills than i did in 2 sorties in the 1337 KI 61.
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Actually Dive brakes prevented the aircraft from exceeding its speed limits it has little to do with Compression.
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Originally posted by bozon
The RAF is not allowed any 1944 or later free rides.
With the exception of AH Typh.
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Thought it was researched and ageed the Tiffy in AH2 was most lilkely from 1943 also.
Always found it strange -
The two main (US, LW) planesets have perked and free 1945 planes.
Even some of the smaller planesets have free 1945 planes.
Third biggest in the game (RAF) has NO 1945 rides whatsoever.
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that could be addressed with the intro of the Meteor III or Spit F.21
http://www.rafmuseum.com/milestones-of-flight/aircraft/1945.html
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Or a properly performing Mk XIV....
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Originally posted by Angus
Or a properly performing Mk XIV....
Even at XIV at 21lbs boost is still July 1944.
As Furball said the only 2 are the Meteor and F.21 . Probably more chance of getting the F.21 than the Meteor, but both are very slim chances.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Always found it strange -
The two main (US, LW) planesets have perked and free 1945 planes.
Even some of the smaller planesets have free 1945 planes.
Third biggest in the game (RAF) has NO 1945 rides whatsoever.
Let's see, the Americans have the perked F4U-4 and the P-47N. Germany has the perked and virtually useless Ta-152H. The Soviets are represented by the 3 gun version of the La-7.
One should note that the P-47N was in squadron service before 1945, but didn't actually see combat until 1945.
I don't even count the F4U-1C as this was nothing more than a rearmed F4U-1A of 1943 vintage.
The 2 gun LA-7 is a 1944 aircraft.
I suspect that the lack of Brit 1945 rides is the result of few new models were introduced in 1945 that saw combat. Even the Spit F. Mk.21 wasn't cleared for combat until just weeks before the war ended, and only a little over 120 were manufactured. I wouldn't mind the Mk.21, but it would be perked for certain. As it is now, I don't see any real justification for perking the M.XIV any longer. Unperked, I doubt it would see more use than the Mk.VIII gets now.
My regards,
Widewing
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"Virtually useless"?
You are being kind.
I'd actually support unperking everything, and just removing the Ta-152. Maybe they can use the model for something that doesn't suck quite as bad, like a Brewster Buffalo.
The La-7 and Spit 16 perform like perk planes anyway, may as well unperk the perk planes and add a little variety.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Thought it was researched and ageed the Tiffy in AH2 was most lilkely from 1943 also.
Always found it strange -
The two main (US, LW) planesets have perked and free 1945 planes.
Even some of the smaller planesets have free 1945 planes.
Third biggest in the game (RAF) has NO 1945 rides whatsoever.
Kev, every single time you post, it's the exact same thing. We get it, ok? lol.
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INmho, I think the spit 8 or the 9 are the best dogfighters in the business, think the 9 just shades it, I'm still trying to research what the best alt for the 9 is.
Hawco:aok
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They don't need to unperk the Ta152 they just need to do several things.
Fill the primary fuselage tanks with fuel before the wing tanks which were long range bladders that WERE NOT self sealing and were only used like said for long range flights.
Secondly give it a better turning circle,since it was afterall one of the better turning planes of the LW ,and give it its aceleration......
Well...since that ain't happening any time soon or in the near or far future or in the end of all living things on this planet, galaxy, and universe..... Just delete the friggin thing and give us a D-9 '45 or a D-11 with Low Alt boost. (400 mph Doras@SL mmmm)
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I'd rather have the Buffalo.
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Kev, every single time you post, it's the exact same thing. We get it, ok? lol.
He posts the same thing opver and over going back a couple of years:
'Its unfair that the LW have a '45 plane and the RAF doesn't' or a variation 'Its unfair that there are more LW planes then there are Spitfires'
Then there's his classic 'HT hates Spitfires...'
Only 4 perk planes of the currect perk planes should still be perked:
F4U-4
Tempest
Me 262
Me 163
There's no point in perking the rest. Its seems HTC have abandoned the perk system any way. Besided perking the Chop the perk system has been stagnate. At the time it was introduced I had thought it would have been more dynamic in that as early and more representative aircraft got modeled then the later and rarer planes would get perked, even if the perk prices were low. As it stands now the perk system is virtually pointless. Personally, I like to see more stuff perked but that aint going to happen with all the whining that goes on around here...
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Originally posted by Glasses
They don't need to unperk the Ta152 they just need to do several things.
Fill the primary fuselage tanks with fuel before the wing tanks which were long range bladders that WERE NOT self sealing and were only used like said for long range flights.
Secondly give it a better turning circle,since it was afterall one of the better turning planes of the LW ,and give it its aceleration......
Well...since that ain't happening any time soon or in the near or far future or in the end of all living things on this planet, galaxy, and universe..... Just delete the friggin thing and give us a D-9 '45 or a D-11 with Low Alt boost. (400 mph Doras@SL mmmm)
You already have a 1945 D9.
The AH2 model at its boost didn't see service until Jan 45 at the earliest.
The AvA team uses Dec 44, but only because it was being deployed by the end of Dec 44 (they wanted originally to have it as an Aug 44 date!!!).
D11 -
Did it actually ever even enter service!!!
It may have gone into production but never seen anything apart from they were slated to be assigned to a Unit Leader Training School.
Possibly only 7 prototypes built? If so how rare a never seen combat plane you after?
There was probably a D20 in someones mind somewhere, maybe you'd like aslo, or the D21 scribbled on the back of a beermat in some Berlin bar.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Thought it was researched and ageed the Tiffy in AH2 was most lilkely from 1943 also.
Quite the opposite. But if you are happier this way ...
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Thought it was researched and ageed the Tiffy in AH2 was most lilkely from 1943 also.
Another bit of nonsense he repeats. The AH Typhy has a hibred performance, a combination of 9 and 11 lbs boost. Hardly, the 7lb boost of a '43 typhoon...
MW says in the thread below:
To hopefully clarify; the only logical conclusion I can make with respect to AH is that the black line in the AH chart is +9 lbs, and the red line (emergency) is +11 lbs.
The AH Typhoon actually hits 410 mph @ 17k feet or so...
MW points out:
The FTHs seem to suggest +9 lb boost, the speeds suggest +11 lbs boost. Bit of a puzzle really... Could be +11 lbs (Sabre IIB), but I don’t think the FTH’s match that.
410 mph could mean 13lbs boost but witht he FTH discrepancies who knows:
I think +13 lbs/sqin is spot-on! I get 410 mph @ 12800 ft for R7700, and it would be more for RB329.
Typhoon speed performance (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151881&highlight=typhoon)
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Even with its hybrid settings -
From the Tiffy performance thread -
"Comparing the engine chart to the November 1943/July 1944 settings, I'd suspect that the +11 lbs/sqin settings were reserved for the V-1 chasers, at least at first. From Clostermann's books, I'd conclude that 150 grade fuel was made available to fighter units in Europe, too, but I haven't gone back to check the date. (He was flying Tempest not Typhoon, but still ...)"
i.e. 11lbs boost 1st use Nov 1943.
As for the 4 bladed prop -
Granted fitted in 1944, BUT this did little more than decrease the takeoff run by approx 150ft when loaded with external stores.
You are correct though, its another hybrid that will hopefully be sorted out when its turn comes for a remodel.
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The deal is still this, - the RAF don't have a 1945 fighter unperked.
They'd only need a juiced up Spit and a Meteor for it, or a spicy Tempest perhaps.
The LW has the 109K
The US has the P47N and the perked F4U4
The USSR has the LALALA
And the Japs have the Ki84?
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Originally posted by Angus
The deal is still this, - the RAF don't have a 1945 fighter unperked.
They'd only need a juiced up Spit and a Meteor for it, or a spicy Tempest perhaps.
The LW has the 109K
The US has the P47N and the perked F4U4
The USSR has the LALALA
And the Japs have the Ki84?
You missed out the Jan 1945 190-D9. (they were 'ready' for deployment end Dec 1944)
None of the current Spits even at max boost would be 1945.
XIV - 21lbs July 44
XVI/LF IXe - 25lbs May 44
Dunno about the Tempest though.
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Sorry, didn't feel safe to include the dora. All out of my head anyway...
Anyway, the monster would probably be the Merlin powered Spit with the 25 boost, - but yet, the XIV with 21???? Performance???
And low alt modded Tempests? Were there any diver chasers ??
(V-1, which reminds me that there would be nice to see them in AH :D)
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25lbs boost would be OK if it wasn't for the 5 mins limit.
The 5 mins was a advised limit only, not a hard and fixed rule. Pilot could and frequently did go over the 5 mins limit, in some cases WELL over it ( highest I've seen was 30+ mins).
Only proviso was that they had to inform their superiors if they did exceed 5 mins.
Still only makes it a late 44 Spit anyaway, even the XIV with 21lbs was July 1944.
As I said no idea about the Tempests, but will have a dig around.
Only drawback I could see about giving the XVI 25lbs would be the even BIGGER outcry to perk it.
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Originally posted by Urchin
In other words.. for AH, the Spit 16 is clearly better.
For n00b's the 16 is the clearly better but fo experienced people the 14 can be very deadly, ive been able to turn with a spit 16 in a 14 before, the only reason the 16 is better is because the stall is lower, the 14 can out spin, out run and in rare cases out turn.
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Call a spit16 a noob plane and u got a fight on ur hands. Im not one of those guys that will fight u about it.:lol
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Call a spit16 a noob plane and u got a fight on ur hands. Im not one of those guys that will fight u about it.:lol
Well the 16 is a n00b plane, it can turn with ease without stalling, keep up with a 109k4, and spin like a 190, how is it not a n00b plane??
Its a combiation of all the best planes into one plane, and its wepons are among the deadliest in the game, and not to mension it can carry 1000 lbs of ord, now try arguing that its not a n00b plane.
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Originally posted by Nemeth
Well the 16 is a n00b plane, it can turn with ease without stalling, keep up with a 109k4, and spin like a 190, how is it not a n00b plane??
Its a combiation of all the best planes into one plane, and its wepons are among the deadliest in the game, and not to mension it can carry 1000 lbs of ord, now try arguing that its not a n00b plane.
.rant on
Lemme spell it out for you little miss superior.
It's not the plane it's the pilot.
I for one am glad both the la7 and the XVI are perk free.
Both planes help beginners learn with a little bit of success.
OMG the horror that a beginner might learn and be able to transition to a different ride.
.rant off
Bronk
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its how i learned
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I learned with it aswell. BUt it really is over done. I would dog fight with bombes and a drop tank and not feel it. The only reason i stoped flyin it is because i started changin my style kept breakin the plane. If the plane didnt break i would have prob stood in it. Then u got all of the "stop flyin that dweeb and get in a really plane" talk. I like my corsair better anyway. But it was real rough switchin over. The plane really doesnt let u leave it, the way it performs lets u make alotttttt of mistakes and still land a 2 kill sortie. Most of beginners will just stay in it. WHen i fight against one one of my advantages is that the guy is a noob. If u hav no turnin ability u just better hop u can out run it, and the thing aint slow. I would give a noob somethin he could learn with then apply the same type of fight wit in another plane. The things i do with f4u i couldnt have done in the spit 16. I had to leanr a different style of fight. Give the new guy somethin he can learn with and grow with at the same time.