Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CMC Airboss on April 25, 2006, 11:59:39 PM
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Raptor canopy stuck in down and locked position sawn open by fire crew after 5hours
A fire crew had to cut open the canopy of a US Air Force Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor fighter with chainsaws on 10 April to free the pilot, who had been trapped inside for 5h.
new link to index page for article with photos
http://www.flightglobal.com/SectionHome/SectionDefault.aspx?NavigationID=190&CategoryID=10252&SlotID=5
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linky no workie,
but... lol... id'a thought that by now, lookheed would have run into this scenario before...
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All fixed
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Know what is slightly amusing about this - is because 2 weeks ago the same thing happened to me, except in a 2 seat Grumman T-Cat. The lock was old, and you wouldn't tell if the damn thing was open or closed b/c it was done by key. So while in the flight, the vibration ended up moving the tumbler back into position - and upon landing, we got a nice surprise. Well, not really a nice surprise. We could barely slide the canopy open enough to tell the line guy somehow we'd been forest gumped into locking ourselves inside with no way of escape. SO after about 45 minutes of the guy trying to get the lock to engage, it slid back.
Life is good.
Wolf
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Hope the USAF bought an extended warranty...
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5 hours Wow!
Seems to me simply pulling the ejection lever would have gotten him out alot faster :D
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or if it malfuntioned and the canopy didnt break the chair would twist up 90 degrees and continue burning the jets just long enough to squash the life out of the pilot against the top of the glass.
do they make the canopies of super ACME bullet proof stuff anyhow?
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at those speeds, i'd have to bet the canopies are made of something uber...i was trapped in a Bonanza for 45min once, but it had curtains & we had sandwiches
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I guess it's a good thing his shoes weren't on fire. Think there will be a factory recall? :D
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I wonder if any of that time is loggable...
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You should be able to jettison the canopy only without igniting ejection seat. At least all plane I have worked with have canopy jettison switch /lever which activates canopy jettisoning from ejection sequence -->blows it off.
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:lol
This would never happen to a Eurofighter Typhoon or Rafale or Sukhoi. Poor American worksmanship and poor rushed design is to blame i think... Cheap Raptors.
:D
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I wonder if any of that time is loggable...
i hope he had his foggles
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The canopy has to have a radar absorbent coating. If it wasn't, the pilots head would have a radar signature a few hundred times larger than the aircraft. They learned that one building the F-117.
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Made in Taiwan.
"American components, Russian components...all made in Taiwan!"
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Just to set a few records strait.
1. The seat can and WILL punch through the canopy apon malfunction. (note the pilot has a good chance of surviving this as it's designed to do this in a contingency situation BUT would probably be injured)
2. The rocket moter and thruster that unlocks and removes the canopy would have gotten the job done reguardless of it's mechanical condition...TRUST ME
3. Jettisoning the canopy will not cause the seat to fire BUT there would be several more expensive components to replace IF it didn't burn the crap out of the canopy sill and outter skin of the a/c. If that were to happen the damage cost would more than likely triple from $180k and that's low balling it.
5 hours for a pilot is nothing. I'm more concerned about the 100's OF HOURS of that the mait crews are going to pull to get all of that FO out of the cockpit. The seat will have to be pulled and completly taken apart and cleaned as well as all the consoles and kick panels.
Having worked this system, I cannot come close to speculating what happened. There is a motor system and a manual drive back up. Unless the thing was WAAAAAYYYY out of rig it should work as advertised.
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Originally posted by Furball
:lol
This would never happen to a Eurofighter Typhoon or Rafale or Sukhoi. Poor American worksmanship and poor rushed design is to blame i think... Cheap Raptors.
:D
Yeah but that F-22 can shoot those planes down just sitting on the runway.
Damn fiats of the sky.. :D
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Yea the pilot sitting there aint the thing I was wondering about...chainsaws have oil...and that crap most certainly got sprayed all over the displays, hud and who knows what, and the plastic debris.
That guy should pack a cordless Dremel for the future :)
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Originally posted by Furball
:lol
This would never happen to a Eurofighter Typhoon or Rafale or Sukhoi. Poor American worksmanship and poor rushed design is to blame i think... Cheap Raptors.
:D
The canopy mechanism is subcontracted out by Lockheed to Mitisubishi Rayon Co. LTD,, dork! :p
http://fas.org/man/gao/gao95145.htm
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One thing to remember also, the whole canopy, from my understanding, is the $182k. What they cut shouldn't cost more than about $30k to $40k. The F-16's transparancy, depending on model, runs between $15k and $30k.
Now the man-hours involved in cleaning it up and the collateral damage done after the fact may shoot the price up some.
The motor used to open and close the canopy isn't designed to be cycled as many time as they did without a breather. You would burn it up. I think that is what probably happened. They burnt the motor up trying to troubleshoot the system and it locked everything up.
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Originally posted by Mark Luper
One thing to remember also, the whole canopy, from my understanding, is the $182k. What they cut shouldn't cost more than about $30k to $40k. The F-16's transparancy, depending on model, runs between $15k and $30k.
Now the man-hours involved in cleaning it up and the collateral damage done after the fact may shoot the price up some.
The motor used to open and close the canopy isn't designed to be cycled as many time as they did without a breather. You would burn it up. I think that is what probably happened. They burnt the motor up trying to troubleshoot the system and it locked everything up.
the 22 trannies are a little more costly and the price you listed for the F16 trannies (Front and single) are kinda low as well. The biggest problem isn't really the price though, its the supply system. All the new ones being made are being placed on the newly made jets. I've never changed a trans on a 22 but have done MANY on 16s and they are not fun at all. Also, I'm not entirely sure that you can just replace the trans on a 22 as I've never done one.
I've heard of burning up the motor many times on 16s but even then the manual drive usually still works. I know the manual drive on the 22 is HORRIBLE and would never want to open one that way.
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Gunslinger,
I'm not at all that familiar with the 22 canopy. We do use the manual mode on the 16 a lot when closing the crew station at the end of the day or after a FA (final acceptance). The prices on the 16 transparancy is about that. I have rejected a few and looking up the manufacturer in our system also shows the price on the particular transparancy in question. It has been a while since I looked one up though.
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Originally posted by Mark Luper
Gunslinger,
I'm not at all that familiar with the 22 canopy. We do use the manual mode on the 16 a lot when closing the crew station at the end of the day or after a FA (final acceptance). The prices on the 16 transparancy is about that. I have rejected a few and looking up the manufacturer in our system also shows the price on the particular transparancy in question. It has been a while since I looked one up though.
The manual drive on the 22 is a nightmare. IIRC it takes about a 1000 revolutions to move just a 1/4 inch. The last test I saw it took engineers about 4 makita batteries on their drills just to open it up (imagine an airman with a speed handle). The other problem is it is LOOOONG. It goes all the way to the front landing gear bay from the cockpit. The system itself is similar to the 15 or the A10 as in it translates aft to unlock and then up. I agree with you that they probably burned up the drive motor but it shouldnt have locked the system up completly....I could be wrong. I wrote a buddy of mine at langly to find out what happend.
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GS are the cockpits on -16s and the -22 pressurized? Any frontline fighter for that matter.
Looking at the canopy and cockpit are when a jet is parked in a museum (the first 22 and a 16 at Wright Patt) it doesn't seem very substantial. To my very much untrained eye it looks like the "tower shaft" for lack of a better word simply pulls it down and holds it. Does it have mechanical locks as well or is the force of the actuator the only thing that pushes and holds it up/down?
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Originally posted by Golfer
GS are the cockpits on -16s and the -22 pressurized? Any frontline fighter for that matter.
Looking at the canopy and cockpit are when a jet is parked in a museum (the first 22 and a 16 at Wright Patt) it doesn't seem very substantial. To my very much untrained eye it looks like the "tower shaft" for lack of a better word simply pulls it down and holds it. Does it have mechanical locks as well or is the force of the actuator the only thing that pushes and holds it up/down?
Speaking of the F16 only (and yes all of them are pressureized) The F16 canopy has an inflation seal attached to a regulator and routed around the sill of the cockpit.
(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/4505/fossf16cockpit4op.th.jpg) (http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fossf16cockpit4op.jpg)(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/558/f16cockpittrainerb2ii.th.jpg) (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f16cockpittrainerb2ii.jpg)
The canopy get's clamed down by hooks wich pull the canopy downward. They are all connected together with links that are attached to a torque tube and an actuator. When canopy jettison occures there are aluminum tubes that blow and expand fracturing the bolts that old the levers down. The hooks then pull free and you have canopy unlock the hard way.
The cockpit iself is pressurized from the engine. The Transparency itself is attached to the canopy frame through about 200 bolts and a foam (dry seal) The rest of the canopy is sealed up with PR1425 sealant (nasty stuff) to include the srews that hold the frame panels on (they get dipped in it)
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/861/f1620cockpit20view6cl.th.jpg) (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f1620cockpit20view6cl.jpg)
PS this cockpit set up is in such violation of technical data as you cannot have an open cockpit display without locking the firing handles of the egress system.
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PS this cockpit set up is in such violation of technical data as you cannot have an open cockpit display without locking the firing handles of the egress system.
I'm sure that rule came about from little billy finding out "what does this do" the hard way :(
Thanks for the info. I figured an inflatable bladder type seal with mechanical locks but I've never had the opportunity (or real desire) to inspect one up close.
Just popped in my head since I'm still in that mode of thinking. Was at FlightSafety for a couple weeks getting my Citation type and still am awakened at night in a cold sweat having nightmares of laser pointers and electrical system diagrams. You've never been attacked by a beast spitting out Mil Spec cherry juice hyd fluid...they don't really exist, right?:confused: