Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Creton on April 26, 2006, 06:05:46 PM
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I'm writing this to give my perspective on the f4u's
Well as most know ,I have flown 109's as my primary
since I joined AH1 in 2002.I started my squad a couple of tours ago
and one of my squadies challenged me to fly f4u's all one tour and try to get away from the 109's alittle.My finding are as follows and while their are some who know lots more about these planes than myself,I am merely giving my account of this tour.
To start with I would like to list people who I found to be among the very best of the f4u drivers.These are in order as to how I feel about their abilties and our encounters.
.Urchin
.Widewing
.Blukitty
.GOOSS
.SABER
.BALSY
.BATFINK
.MUZIK
.FALCNWING
.SMASHR/SKYROCK
.JIMBEAM
I know that most wont agree with my assessment of these engagements,but so be it.
I really like the way the dhog performed over all,flaps are amazing as is the ability to drop gear for the over shoots.The dhog has great slow speed controll and has a very gentile snap roll snap stall as far as I'm concerned.
I started tapping the flaps immediately after the merge and in most case was ussually throttle off and 1/2 -full flaps by the time I hit the top of the loop.
I ussually merged around 300-325mph and was very aggressive on initial merge,ussually beginning my merge d300-d400 in fron and off to an angle of the boggie.This worked well for me and semed to fit my style of fighting best.
I noticed that most boggies dont expect the dhog to turn arond and generally are caught off-guard by the maneuver.
I found that the u1 is the best turner of the group but seems slightly underpowered when it gets really slow.I also discovered that fu-u4 can do most anything in the vertical which is the way I prefer to fight after haveing flown 109's for so long.Chog is good plane but just seems to heavy to me,but the guns are deadly.
Me and URCHIN had some great comparisons between the spit16 and dhog,WIDEWING was kind enough to film these and demonstrate the strengths and weaknesses of each plane.
All in all I like the dhog and this has been a great tour flying it.I will be trying another plane all this next tour and will post my thoughts after then as well.I hope that this is helpful to any newer players to the game.
Nothing beats gull wings and blue paint.
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Thx for the write up Creton, good info.
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there a reason 2 of the corsairs are perked ... back in the old days thats all we flew was chogs .. (talk about a killing machine)
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The big blue bird is a fantastic plane....my only grief is fuel burn, otherwise I would fly it a heck of a lot more.
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I still want my F4U-1A per FD's performance charts. :(
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Yeah it's really realistic compared to its real life counterpart it was well known it used to turn Zekes and had outstanding aceleration, being one and a half times the weight of the zeke and requiring a 2khp engine to obtain an acceptable performance due to its weight.
:rofl
That's why it was called the ensign eliminator either the pilots sucked or the aircraft is too forgiving in AH.
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creton knows how to reallt get the most out of any aircraft ive seen him in, we dueled 10 times in the F4UD with many different fuel settings and i notched up a score or 1 victory to 9 defeats in about 20 mins. Eseentially i would say we fly close in ACMs but my methods seem to burn a fraction more E to acomplish whilst my opponent was sailing just 20 ft above me on many of the ropes and high turns. while this may have been a result of the early merges being led by one and the other reacting, I'm more inclined to beleive that cret's handling of the hogs is just so perfectly refined as to pull any fight further his way the longer it goes on. (then of course he lets me win one to keep me interested :p)
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I ALMOST had DanoDano once. Had his tail blown off and everything. Then as he's falling down backwards he cheap-shotted me from the lasers on his dammed C-Hog as I'm pulling away to avoid the collision with his wreckage. :p
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Ya ... it is a beautiful aircraft....
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/photos/corsair.jpg)
I'm such a bandwidth thief :D Got to love google images.
(http://www.ethell.com/jethell/ww2color/f4u.jpg)
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I started tapping the flaps immediately after the merge and in most case was ussually throttle off and 1/2 -full flaps by the time I hit the top of the loop.
Was this all in the DA? I can't see this working much in the MA. You'd be scrubbing off too much E to do more than fight one guy at a time, like that happens in the MA LOL.
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Actually in the MA the average F4u-1d pilot can own the average spit 16 pilot.
Now we all know I'm not in vic's class, not by a long shot. But I've been flying the F4u-1d off & on since the night he was in & worked with widewing & urchin in it.
I've yet to die to a 1 on 1 vs a spit 16.
Yes you do need to pay attention to your SA. But if you can sucker a spit 16 into a turn fight, he's yours. The slower the fight gets the more it favors the Hawg. Thats why vic is dumping E so early. You can easily setup a nice turn in the hawg, get flaps out. Then kick in 1/3 to 2/3 rudder and rotate that sucker right up into a fireing solution. I think its the big rudder cranking the turn around that makes Widewing call it a helicopter.
Its amazing.
Ohhh and FYI, watch out for the 109F
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Originally posted by mars01
Was this all in the DA? I can't see this working much in the MA. You'd be scrubbing off too much E to do more than fight one guy at a time, like that happens in the MA LOL.
I even performed this in the main arena,sometimes to my own death as I was picked by another boggie,but most times even when out numbered 3-4 to 1 .
The boggies would overshoot and I could ussually manage to achieve 1-2 victories if not shoot down all 3-4 in one set up.I do realise that not all pilots are the same calibre, so some of them were noobes some a little more advanced.
I still managed my 2.9-1 k/d although not my ussual total kills for the tour.
I will normally average around 1000+ kills,however I've not been able to fly quiet as much this tourbecause of my sons illness and work.
As to the realism of this plane,I have no idea what it did in real life,but if I may quote and excerp out of one of my books regarding the f4u.
This is out of the book:"FIGHTING AIRCRAFT OF WWII" by Salamander publishing
page 146"Designed by Rex Beisel and Igor Sikorsky,the inverted gull wing Corsair was one of the greatest combat aircraft in history.Planned to use the most powerful engine biggest propeller ever fitted to a fighter,the prototype was the first US warplane to exceed 400mph and out performed all other American aircraft.Action with land-based Marine squadrons began in the Solomans in Feburary 1943; from then on the Corsair swiftly gained air suprmrcy over the previously untroubled Japanese"
The intent of my original post was not to show the Corsair to be the dominent
main arena ride ,but merely my take on what I've come to consider a very good aircraft.
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Originally posted by Glasses
Yeah it's really realistic compared to its real life counterpart it was well known it used to turn Zekes and had outstanding aceleration, being one and a half times the weight of the zeke and requiring a 2khp engine to obtain an acceptable performance due to its weight.....
Originally posted by Kweassa
List of planes in order of smallest Turn Radius with full of flaps engaged
Type: Radius
--------------------------------------
A6M2: 104.6m
...snip...
F4U-1D: 148.7m
Originally stated by Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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f4u slows down so damn good, you really got watch for an experienced stick.
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one of the gamiest most questionable flight models in the ma..definitely arcadish with the helicopter moves and gear down stuff...please someone show me one story of a hog turning with a zeke...please
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The F4U is one of the planes in AH that has the tightest turning circles and it's ludicrous, that plane that was known for having very large torque effects, in AH performs like a damn Spit, the turning circles you quote are from the Kweassa post on the F4U without flaps and with stall limiter on. In AH with Enough flaps you can out turn even 109s and spits,that's the real turning spec on the F4U in AH .
One of the most questionable models in Game, it has nothing to do with being a fanatic but with the truth, in AH it can do things it couldn't, wonder why. :rofl
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Originally posted by jaxxo
please someone show me one story of a hog turning with a zeke...please
Just watch any episode of BaBa Blacksheep.
ack-ack
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Just watch any episode of BaBa Blacksheep.
HAHAHAHA LOLH
Knock it off, I dare ya.
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Originally posted by Glasses
The F4U is one of the planes in AH that has the tightest turning circles and it's ludicrous, that plane that was known for having very large torque effects, in AH performs like a damn Spit, the turning circles you quote are from the Kweassa post on the F4U without flaps and with stall limiter on. In AH with Enough flaps you can out turn even 109s and spits,that's the real turning spec on the F4U in AH .
One of the most questionable models in Game, it has nothing to do with being a fanatic but with the truth, in AH it can do things it couldn't, wonder why.
Actually, they're with flaps out at full. heres the thread, look about 4 windows down (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155592)
He extensively explained why he had stall limiter on -- to standardize the "skill" component that otherwise would have introduced an uncontrolled variable into the testing equation. IE he could have had artificially tighter circles on the planes he flew best.
Oh, and as far as measurable data -- will full flaps out, the F4U-1D was the 18th best turner, coming in behind all the spits except the XIV and even behind the "porked" luftwaffe turn demon, the Bf-110. (Speaking of planes that in AH "do things that in real life they couldnt")
It's getting really old, glasses, especially since there's no data to support your discrimination thesis. If you're so sure you're right, why dont you do a fly off between you in any "uber" american ride and, say, Furby in a spit or zeke? In fact, I'm only just learning to fight, and routinely get my spitfire's butt smacked by Creton in his porked 109 and widewing in his uber f4u -- but if you wanna take that F4U against my zeke, I'm in!
I expect, though, that I'll be hearing more whining and doing less testing -- so:
Originally stated by Sir Winston Churchill
A fanatic is someone who cannot change his mind and will not change the subject
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Good you're on :-)
Just watch any episode of BaBa Blacksheep.
LoL I think that's where AH got its Fm from.
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Let me know when this is going to happen . I'll need some time to get the popcorn popped and the beer cold.
Bronk
Edit: Ohh and glasses this isn't IL2 boards . IE when the whine has hit a certain peak they change the flight model. Have to keep 1 luftwhiner here so we dont forget.
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Originally posted by Simaril
... and even behind the "porked" luftwaffe turn demon, the Bf-110. (Speaking of planes that in AH "do things that in real life they couldnt")...
Warning: highly subjective!
I found a book in my Granddads shelf. Next to a pic of a 110 (sorry, cant remeber the model) he had written a personal comment: "Was allowed to fly it once - very nimble"
Do WE really know what they *could* have done IRL? Besides, we can take risks that for a RL pilot are simply unacceptable. If we end up in a flat spin, we can say "dangit" and take off again.....
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Originally posted by Schatzi
...snip...
Do WE really know what they *could* have done IRL? Besides, we can take risks that for a RL pilot are simply unacceptable. If we end up in a flat spin, we can say "dangit" and take off again.....
Lol....
agree 100%, schatzi.
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When do you like to fly, glasses? I'm EST (currently GMT-4) and fly mostly in evenings.
I guess the challenge is pure turn fighting, flat turns and rolls, no BnZ or energy stuff, F4U-1D vs zeke. That means the standard doubel immel would pollute the results - so we'll have to come up with some rules for flat turn merges. Maybe launch from sea level bases, entire fight under 1k, recording results to assure compliance?
I cant remember the last time I've upped a zeke (I mostly do energy/vertical stuff), and I see you have at least 5 years more experience in flight sims than me -- so gimme a week or so to learn the bird a bit.
Lemme know what works for you!
edit: just looked back at some of your old scores, glasses -- your skill levels are WAY[/size] above mine, so if I manage to break even here it'll be pretty solid evidence that the F4U-1D isnt overmodelled!! ;).
Since its usually "not the plane, its the pilot" that determines outcomes, I do hereby reserve the right not concede the flight model point unless you beat both me AND a turn pilot equal to your skill....:lol
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I find it hard to believe but I actually agree with glasses. F4u handling is questionably good. Also, beating a lower wingloaded, higher power loaded plane by going slower raises my eyebrow.
Last patch changed something in the FM that affected all planes one way or another. Kweassa's test was done before that patch (as part of the "fix 109" campaign). The test should be repeated for the f4u, if there are any volunteers.
Bozon
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Originally posted by bozon
I find it hard to believe but I actually agree with glasses.
....snip....
In honesty, I guess even if the zeke won all 5 times it wouldnt prove that the F4U wasnt "too good", just that the zeke was better....
I'd bet we could twist Widewing's arm to record some of his testing work and do the updated calculations, if Kweassa hasnt started his retesting already! I know Wide has a lot of stick time in the Hogs since the latest patch....
lastly, I dont pretend to know what was in Kweassa's mind as he did that incredible series of tests -- but he did MUCH more than try to get the 109s stabilized, IMHO.
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The Zeke challange is a bit over doing it imo. My point was just that the FM change affected the F4u for the better and maybe too much of that.
lastly, I dont pretend to know what was in Kweassa's mind as he did that incredible series of tests -- but he did MUCH more than try to get the 109s stabilized, IMHO.
These indeed were very good tests and disprooved quite a few myths (including the claim that 109s can't turn well - it was just hard to do due to the instability). He has my respect for taking the time to do this. I didn't mean for it to sound otherwise.
Bozon
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Wel I'm not pulling stuff out of my rectum,this is from pilots who flew the plane that said it had very slow roll at lower speeds and the torque effects of the aircraft near stall where enough to kill a few pilots during landing,yet in AH they're non existant which gives it this questionable modeling.
I have no doubt it was fast and I have no doubt it was rugged,but being able to perform maneuvers,tighter maneuvers with planes that are half the weight and double the power to weight ratios is just ludicrous.
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Originally posted by Glasses
Wel I'm not pulling stuff out of my rectum,this is from pilots who flew the plane that said it had very slow roll at lower speeds and the torque effects of the aircraft near stall where enough to kill a few pilots during landing,yet in AH they're non existant which gives it this questionable modeling.
I have no doubt it was fast and I have no doubt it was rugged,but being able to perform maneuvers,tighter maneuvers with planes that are half the weight and double the power to weight ratios is just ludicrous.
The F4U-1D does roll rather slow at low speeds.... Just about everything else does too. You use rudder to induce a faster roll.
Remember, the Corsair was designed to land on a ship at low speeds.
As to torque... handling was benign unless one cobbed the power, which could cause the plane to roll smartly. Rookie pilots could get into trouble with that, just like rookie pilots get into trouble in AH2.
Finally, if you find the F4Us too nasty to stall fight, then don't stall fight 'em.
There is an alternative fighter for low speed brawls; you will discover that the post 2.07 Bf 109F-4 is every bit as able as the F4U-1D in a stall fight, and can beat the SpitV at its own game (being superior in the vertical), even with a reasonably able pilot in the Spitfire. You can fly insanely tight circles (it prefers turning left due to P factor and torque) with full flaps and it is as steady as a rock. Its flaps are superior to those of the Spitfires and it has a pretty good climb rate (just over 4k/minute).
While I haven't had a chance to fly it against a Spit16 flown by Urchin or a someone of his level, I have had the chance to fly against Fubar's Yak-9U (he had a ton of E at the outset) and it gobbled up the Yak in about 60 seconds. Indeed, the 109F is an evil beast. It probably will become a leading choice for duels as it really is that good.
Here's a short FILM (http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/film190_SpitV-109F4.zip) of Sonic23 (SpitV) and me (109F) having some fun (film is zipped).
My regards,
Widewing
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There's a problem with your assesment Widewing, I've no question you're one of the most knowledgeable persons on this board as it comes to WW2 Aviation, and the Corsair,however the F4U in AH can go vertical with ease and hover like a chopper, not only that but if within anywhere from 600 to 800yards you might as well flight and straight and level sell your sheep and clean your underwear because you're going down, due to the fact the 50 cals or the tungsten hispano rounds always liquidate you from those ranges, that's my whole point the aircraft in AH performs as if it was a lighter aircraft with better power loading.
You have to remember as well when first introduced the F4U was assigned to Marine Land units,because the aircraft was very dangerous,including tail bounced which caused several pilots to drink sea water,when their tailhook failed to catch the wires.
I'm not on a quest to "pork " the F4U in AH but to rectify certain flying qualities it has that the plane didn't have back in the day.
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Chicks dig gullwings.
Thanks for the compliment, Creton.
HONK!
Gooss
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That's not why it was assigned to land units.
The first delivery of an F4U-1 was on 31 July 1942.
VF-12 completed carrier qual by April of 1943.
Starting May 1, 1943, VF-17 landed F4U-1's and eventually all pilots got their five traps. VF-17 deployed aboard Bunker Hill with new F4U-1A's from the factory September 10 of '43.
So, VF-12 and VF-17 successfully completed carrier qual with F4U-1's.
From Tom Blackburn's book:
"The trip to the West Coast was uneventful, and they sortied from San Diego on September 28.
But a few days out, official lightning struck. VF-17 was detached from Bunker Hill, and ordered to the island of Espiritu Santo, to operate as a land-based squadron. The problem was one of logistics, not of operations. The high command knew that Blackburn's Corsairs could operate from a carrier. But as the only Corsair squadron in a Navy full of Grumman Hellcats and Wildcats, supplying and maintaining them would be a headache."
It ought to be noted that VF-17 qual'ed with little difficulty. IIRC, one guy made a hard landing and broke a wheel. That was about the worst incident.
The Royal Navy also had no trouble with carrier qual. Fleet Air Arm units were created and equipped in the US, at Quonset Point or Brunswick, and then shipped to war theatres on board of escort carriers.
The first Corsair unit of the FAA was No 1830 Sqdn, created on the first of June 1943, and soon operating from HMS Ilustrious. At the end of the war, 19 FAA squadrons operated with the F4U. British Corsairs operated both in Europe and in the Pacific.
I think logistics is it... as he said:
But as the only Corsair squadron in a Navy full of Grumman Hellcats and Wildcats, supplying and maintaining them would be a headache."
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The hog, with no wingtips, and 1 elevator, can fly at speeds under 150mph, and maintain control.
I'm a little skeptical. No one ever said a plane they loved that performed well was completely porked, and you'll forgive me for not taking the opinions of those who love the hog at face value.
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i can understand both sides of this argument however, This is still a GAME
even if hitech had a super duper AI computer writing the code for the FM it still wouldnt be the same as RL. There will always be differences, some glaringly obvious some not so obvious. But, we will have to live with "some" no matter how good or how bad.
Im not trying to cause an argument and i respect that many here are truley devoted aviation enthusiests (if not more than that) and all would like AH2 to be as realistic as possible. Just wanting to keep things in perspective is all
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You left out torque.
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The 109F is a real nice ride since 2.07. The Yak-9U feels like it lost some turn rate and stability, though.
The -1 and -4 Hawgs feel less stable than the -1D ... at least to me.
The Corsair really turns nice now. It's nice to have a plane which can perform well at both ends of the spectrum.
I've yet to "liquidate" anything with .50 cals. ... even in a P47 ... not without an awful lot of bullets be fired, anyway.
All this being said, there is something counter-intuitive with advocating chopping throttle and dropping flaps to enter combat in a plane which weighs six tons.
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VIC
May I recommend the Jug for your next tour.
Its not that far from flying a F4U and even more fun... ;)
Tex
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however the F4U in AH can go vertical with ease and hover like a chopper, not only that but if within anywhere from 600 to 800yards you might as well flight and straight and level sell your sheep and clean your underwear because you're going down, due to the fact the 50 cals or the tungsten hispano rounds always liquidate you from those ranges
Hehehe Cmon - Yeah a hog with a lot of E can zoom climb nicely all that weight, power and inertia should, but when you run out, you run out. It does not hover in the least, especially anything like a Niki, Zeke or the like.
And since when were 50s so dangerouse?
As for, the "oh it's the ensign/newb eliminator", yeah hamfist the hog and it's gonna bite you even in AH. With that said it is not hard to fly with a nice light touch.
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Agreed, Mars
And as someone who almost exclusively flies the F4U, that those guys who are able to beat Spits and Zekes at their own ring-around-the-rosy turning game are something else. I can't do it. If I try to fight a Zeke or Spit without some sort of advantage (alt, airspeed, SA, or a friendly or two nearby to keep him honest) I'm usually spiraling wreckage.
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And as someone who almost exclusively flies the F4U, that those guys who are able to beat Spits and Zekes at their own ring-around-the-rosy turning game are something else.
If a hog tries to go more than half circle with a spit or zeke and continues to go around and around it's dead. Scisors that is a differnent story.
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Originally posted by mars01
If a hog tries to go more than half circle with a spit or zeke and continues to go around and around it's dead. Scisors that is a differnent story.
I don't think so. 2 full circles maybe, but half, no way. Most spits and zekes are dead within a half circle by my hog.
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Yeah Dogg gald you chimed in here -
If Im in a spit and you are on my tail and all I do is pull as hard as I can around in a circle, when will you break off knowing that I am going to out turn you?
I said half because the longer you go around the worse the situation gets for the hog.
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Originally posted by mars01
If a hog tries to go more than half circle with a spit or zeke and continues to go around and around it's dead. Scisors that is a differnent story.
Actually not true, as far as I can tell. I guess it depends on a lot of things... if the Hog is just tearing bellybutton down on the Spits tail and tries to follow it through a break turn, it will end up overshoot by pure velocity and be open to a snapshot on the reversal.
But if the Hog and the Spit are roughly the same speed, the Spit had better have something else up his sleeve. He might be able to keep it a stalemate, but the F4U can turn tight little circles.
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Tell him urchin. U and I have gone at it few times with your spit16 ver my hog-1. Just like U said about the hog barelling down on ya he will setup for snapshot as u did to me but if I same speed as U. I was able to turn with ya and kill ya.
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There are many different ways to fight in the hog. It has a large rudder and is wisely used by good pilot to the hogs advantage. If a hog is going over 400 and a spit is on his 6 going same speed, the hog can barrel roll and the spit will not be able to follow. Its actually better to get the attacking plane to go faster so that reversal is easier for the hog. It handles quite well at fast speeds. Slow fighting is where the large rudder really helps the hogs and is why if used properly it can almost stop in mid air and control fall back on opponent not much unlike a hammerhead at top of rope. BTW Creton suks!:aok
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Hmm I will have to work on my tight turns in the Hog. I always seem to be getting out turned in it.
I know you and I have gone round and round a few times dogg, but what I remember are the tight wingovers you were doing, we never really got into a dog track.
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Originally posted by mars01
Yeah Dogg gald you chimed in here -
If Im in a spit and you are on my tail and all I do is pull as hard as I can around in a circle, when will you break off knowing that I am going to out turn you?
Never.... Because you can't out-turn a Hog with a Spitfire anymore... Can't out-turn a Bf 109F-4 now either. These are virtually dead even in a continuous turn (including the SpitV), but both the Hog and the 109F are more stable being flown flaps out, at the limit.
After 2.07 the wheel has turned and there's a whole new Paradigm. What used to be isn't any longer in many cases. A lot of guys are learning the hard way that simply turning as tight as possible no longer works as it did before. Whether or not this is historically correct is irrelevant. It's just the way it is in AH2 after the update.
I strongly suggest that players spend some time in the TA learning what has changed. Moreover, I want to remind players that a lot of planes have changed, some for the better, some for the worse. Those that have improved will generally go unnoticed if they don't know about it and do not adjust their style. Those that have lost something will become readily obvious when old tricks no longer work, but that usually gets you whacked.
Try the Bf 109F-4; go find a Spitfire and experience the difference the update has made.
My regards,
Widewing
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Urchin, did your new stick arrive yet?
My regards,
Widewing
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What is your callsign in the game mars01? I don't remember seeing that name at all.
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Yep mars01.
LOL your memory is as good as mine in the MA.
You and I tusseld a few times one nigth in the MA a few months back, when I was still flyn the 16. We probably had 4 to 5 fights within an hour. I figured you remembered cause you said you actually had to work a little LOL. It was nice to run into someone that could actually fly the Hog well.
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Spit V is still premium turner and will outturn hogs and 109F although hogs and 109F have a better chance after last patch and they can actually hold for a few turns. Spit V flaps are finally what they should be, a landing air brakes and they are more of a penalty then before the patch, so they have to be used differently.
Spit 16 will have more problems with both because it overshoots so easy, and likes to drop wing in tight turn under full power, but with good throttle usage and keeping it in vertical, it should win.
The biggest advantage spit V and XVI have over hogs (1, 1D) and 109F is ability to kill with a very short snapshot.
Now, f4U-4 is another story...
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Originally posted by Widewing
After 2.07 the wheel has turned and there's a whole new Paradigm. What used to be isn't any longer in many cases. A lot of guys are learning the hard way that simply turning as tight as possible no longer works as it did before. Whether or not this is historically correct is irrelevant. It's just the way it is in AH2 after the update.
I strongly suggest that players spend some time in the TA learning what has changed. Moreover, I want to remind players that a lot of planes have changed, some for the better, some for the worse. Those that have improved will generally go unnoticed if they don't know about it and do not adjust their style. Those that have lost something will become readily obvious when old tricks no longer work, but that usually gets you whacked.
Widewing
I agree, the AH2 world has changed. The last week I've taken up the Ki-61 and had a blast turning with Spits. Then last night I took up a C202 for a couple of rides and had two interesting fights with a Spit 16. The first started and stayed at about 10K. The 16 was joined by a LA-7 and a 51. The four of us going round and round, up and over. The 202 was a match for the 16 in the tight turn at alt. Eventually they picked me off. A couple of minutes later the same 16 met me at sea level in the 202. This fight went round and round, full flaps, 50 feet off the water, 100 mph for at least 10 circles. If I slipped a bit he would gain, if he stalled a bit I would gain. Back and forth we went. He eventually tried to bug out but realised I was too close, and then scissor back in the opposite direction which was the end of the 16.
19.99 perkies for the single kill!
Widewing is right, we all have to go back to re-learning what these planes can and can't do.
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Originally posted by Widewing
Urchin, did your new stick arrive yet?
My regards,
Widewing
Yes, it did get here this week :). So now I have a working throttle, not that it seems to have made much difference lol.
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That my friends is the rediculous issue of this whole thing as worse power loading plane out turning and besting planes with better power loading in flat turns just by dropping the Wunder Flaps, a thing that the F4U was not particularly known for. :p
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Funny to hear people PO'd cuz there uber spit isnt a instant dweeb pull back on the stick plane to fly. Spit actually might require some thinking and ACM now... well theres still the lghey.
Balsy
PS Ive flown the F4u1 through all the patches, and have consistently done well against the spits, even with excellent pilots. I dont see that its changed at all in that regard.
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F4u1 is nice. Better -1 sticks like balsy should give most spits pilots problems. Then again, the entire MA is flying spits from what I hear.
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I have no question spits are and were good turning planes, my particular concern and skepticism with this current "revision" is that it gives better turning circles to planes that have twice the weight and more than half the turning circle, even A-20s can turn with K-4s and spiral climb with them, I mean that just makes you want to say come the twittler Wulf 190 on!
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Originally posted by Morpheus
... Then again, the entire MA is flying spits from what I hear.
From what I saw last nite the F4U is now at least in the top 5 where it used to be a rarity.
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well i still have no prob fighting hogs so i guess i cant complain..i look for the cheeseball flap and gear move and go vert instantly..if i avoid the ensuing spray the hog is just plain dead..mostly if i die to one its because i try and turn with it at to high of an airspeed
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Originally posted by jaxxo
well i still have no prob fighting hogs so i guess i cant complain..i look for the cheeseball flap and gear move and go vert instantly..if i avoid the ensuing spray the hog is just plain dead..mostly if i die to one its because i try and turn with it at to high of an airspeed
Hiya Jaxxo.. Stop by the TA one evening and I'll show you why the F4U is so damned dangerous now. I can say this without reservation, it's nearly impossible to beat the Hogs on a Co-E reverse. A really good pilot may match it with a Spitfire, but probably not.
These days, the hands-down best dogfighter in the game is the F4U-4. It can do anything the Spit16 can do, and go like hell to boot.
Remember, don't rate an airplane by the skills of the pilots flying it. Fighting a good pilot 1v1 is where you can get a real handle on what an aircraft is capable of. You really have to get the pilots out of the equation to isolate the plane's performance. Unfortunately, that's not easy to do. Especially in the MA.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Hiya Jaxxo.. Stop by the TA one evening and I'll show you why the F4U is so damned dangerous now. I can say this without reservation, it's nearly impossible to beat the Hogs on a Co-E reverse. A really good pilot may match it with a Spitfire, but probably not.
These days, the hands-down best dogfighter in the game is the F4U-4. It can do anything the Spit16 can do, and go like hell to boot.
Remember, don't rate an airplane by the skills of the pilots flying it. Fighting a good pilot 1v1 is where you can get a real handle on what an aircraft is capable of. You really have to get the pilots out of the equation to isolate the plane's performance. Unfortunately, that's not easy to do. Especially in the MA.
My regards,
Widewing
Co-E reversal the spit wins everytime.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Co-E reversal the spit wins everytime.
Disagree... Nothing dumps E like an F4U and there's several methods to bleeding off speed that result in a rediculous turn radius.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Disagree... Nothing dumps E like an F4U and there's several methods to bleeding off speed that result in a rediculous turn radius.
My regards,
Widewing
Including wunderflaps.
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I'm partial to the landing gear magic airbrakes, m'self. :D
One problem with arguing this, as I think has been pointed out, is that few if any people here have actual flight time with any of these birds (IIRC, isn't there some sort of special license/flight training required to qualify to fly a vintage warbird? Think I remember reading about some guy who built a 3/4 scale P-51 with a modern engine because he would have had to qualify for the REAL thing). I've read accounts from pilots who describe the Corsair doing things a LOT like what I've seen in here. I've also read spec descriptions that say she COULDN'T. So who do you go by? What the manual says or what the guys who had to push the birds PAST the specified limits to survive?
Anyway, I think there's gamier stuff out there that should be addressed WAY before whether or not the F4U could handle like she does here.
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Originally posted by Saxman
I'm partial to the landing gear magic airbrakes, m'self. :D
I know that you are aware of this, but most people don't know that the F4U had a combat flap setting and dive brakes. Indeed, the landing gear were engineered to be used as dive brakes. When the pilot used the dive brake lever, the main landing would drop (the tail wheel did not lower).
Max deployment speed was 300 mph, max retraction speed was 400 mph. So, there's nothing magic about them. Also, the maneuver flaps could be lowered at 250 mph and would blow back up at around 300 mph.
Both of these features, if you will, were routinely used by F4U pilots in combat, so there's nothing gamey about their use.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing PM sent!
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Well, I meant magic more in the way they can so quickly alter the F4U's Energy state and pull her through a high-speed turn more quickly than she otherwise would. I think that's part of where a lot of the misconception about the Corsair's turning ability is coming in because those gear can REALLY whip her through a mid or high-speed turn. During a brief session I had with PF in the TA working on that rolling scissors he suggested kicking out gear only a for a few moments and pulling them back up. Playing around with it I've found that the excess drag DOES provide an initial advantage, but left extended seems to offer little additional benefit.
And I'll need to check it again, but it seems that the F4U's combat flap setting auto-retracts AT 250 in AH. That a detail that may need fixing?
BTW Glasses, dunno if this will ease your concerns about the Corsair's ease of handling, but I was in a big furball last night with a Hurri C tucked in at close range behind me at mid-speed (maybe about 250-300 ias). As I was trying to start that rolling scissors I was more concerned with picking up the Hurri than what I was doing and went right into an unrecoverable spin. I wasn't even horsing around too hard on the stick, she just snapped into it without warning (I think I made the mistake of trying to kick the rudder and roll to start a rolling scissors with too much back-stick pressure. The F4U REALLY doesn't seem to like too much rudder and pitch at the same time).
Just to poll the Corsair drivers since this seems to be a relevant issue, is there anyone here who DOESN'T, at least once in a while, spin an F4U? I'm willing to bet that even the top sticks push a little too hard and let the Hog get out from under them every now and then.
As for torque, the F4U has a natural tendency to pull to the left, so that might slow her down in a right turn, but it would help a great deal in a turn to the left (another thing PF showed me, with a notch of flaps and WEP, at certain airspeeds the Corsair REALLY pulls hard to port). So in that case, engine torque would be a benefit, not a detriment so long as the plane remains under control.
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There's a flaw with that assesment you're comparing the relative turning circle against other allied aircraft instead of comparing it to how it performed aginst its historial counterparts, even a Ki-84 in AH has trouble with an F4U, even light planes like an 109G2 have problems with the F4U that's the whole point , since the new revision of the flight code the F4U has been given superb stability and improved turning circle per G it can hang on its prop, not with E retention as Widewing described it but the lack of any perceived loss of control below stall speed,which you can keep pulling the stick and go vertical as soon as you hit 90mph and have two notches of flaps with full power and recover,with full fuel and full armament.
It's this the F4U has become the new Super Maneuverable aircraft,after the P-38? My whole argument is that this plane even though it was fast making tight stall fighting maneuvers was not of its historical prowess,yet in AH consistantly it can be put into maneuvers against some of its historical counterparts,that seem just out of the whole context of what the aircraft could do.
People other than myself have posted in this thread indicating the same,that they have noticed the awesome maneuverability and super powerloading the F4U has gained,compared to smaller lighter better power loaded aircraft, I bet even that Hurricane,aside from the pilot's skill even had trouble shaking your F4U at the speeds the Hurricane performs best(below 250mph) ,that itself didn't mean anything it just meant that the Hurricane most likely got to a speed that even the F4U entering Biplane mode(flaps) couldn't react quickly to these changes and well ya ate some dirt.
I still argue when you have A-20s and F4Us going spiral climbing with zekes Ki-84s and 109s co E,nearing stall without any sort of departure from controlled flight there's definetly something wrong there.
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I'm sure some of you have seen this:
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/F4U.html
About 13 min in they get into the stall behavior - and then acrobatics after that. What's interesting watching this is (a) that the low speed stall they show doesn't seem very present in AH and (b) that the F4U really is pretty manoueverable as long as you don't dip down into those low speeds. They also specifically mention that the flaps are there to add turn rate - but also say that the F4U shouldn't try to turn with more nimble planes. And with that 90 kt stall they show, its clear why.
I think somewhere along the way the stall got messed up, everything else in AH2 looks like what I saw in the training film. The low-speed stall on the F4U should be kind of like the Fw's currently is I think.
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are you sure about the gear being used as speed brakes?
i thought it was only the gear doors used, not the gear its self.
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Originally posted by whels
are you sure about the gear being used as speed brakes?
i thought it was only the gear doors used, not the gear its self.
Watch the video.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Well, I meant magic more in the way they can so quickly alter the F4U's Energy state and pull her through a high-speed turn more quickly than she otherwise would. I think that's part of where a lot of the misconception about the Corsair's turning ability is coming in because those gear can REALLY whip her through a mid or high-speed turn. During a brief session I had with PF in the TA working on that rolling scissors he suggested kicking out gear only a for a few moments and pulling them back up. Playing around with it I've found that the excess drag DOES provide an initial advantage, but left extended seems to offer little additional benefit.
And I'll need to check it again, but it seems that the F4U's combat flap setting auto-retracts AT 250 in AH. That a detail that may need fixing?
BTW Glasses, dunno if this will ease your concerns about the Corsair's ease of handling, but I was in a big furball last night with a Hurri C tucked in at close range behind me at mid-speed (maybe about 250-300 ias). As I was trying to start that rolling scissors I was more concerned with picking up the Hurri than what I was doing and went right into an unrecoverable spin. I wasn't even horsing around too hard on the stick, she just snapped into it without warning (I think I made the mistake of trying to kick the rudder and roll to start a rolling scissors with too much back-stick pressure. The F4U REALLY doesn't seem to like too much rudder and pitch at the same time).
Just to poll the Corsair drivers since this seems to be a relevant issue, is there anyone here who DOESN'T, at least once in a while, spin an F4U? I'm willing to bet that even the top sticks push a little too hard and let the Hog get out from under them every now and then.
As for torque, the F4U has a natural tendency to pull to the left, so that might slow her down in a right turn, but it would help a great deal in a turn to the left (another thing PF showed me, with a notch of flaps and WEP, at certain airspeeds the Corsair REALLY pulls hard to port). So in that case, engine torque would be a benefit, not a detriment so long as the plane remains under control.
My method of reversing an F4U as fast as possible is as follows:
I immediately dump the gear and begain a climbing reverse, I pull hard enough to briefly blackout. As soon as I can see (just a bit past vertical), I pull up the gear and dump flaps. Done right, the Spitfire will coming over the top after you've rolled out. Timing the reverse is important. About 50% of the time you can kill the spit before he's aware your there.
Yes, I do spin an F4U once in a while, but always catch it within 1/4 revolution. I sometimes spin it intentionally, catching it when I've gained the angle I wanted. I have a film I can post showing how I use this to shake someone on my six. The usual response is, "where the heck did you go?" I'll post the film if anyone is interested.
Glasses, I've said before that the current F4U flight model may not be historic. However, it is what we have and I won't hesitate to exploit what it is capable of if need be. F4Us have always been very good at low speeds, but did improve a bit with the latest update. Currently, the F4U-4 can dominate every other fighter, regardless if it's a low-speed or high-speed engagement.
Finally, if a Hurricane IIC should find a Corsair on its six, the chances of survival are slim. Typically, getting something off your six is a lot more difficult than staying on someone's six. Inasmuch as the F4U-1D can turn nearly as tight as the Hurricane, things will be bleak for the hurri driver.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Bingo73
Widewing PM sent!
Reply sent.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by whels
are you sure about the gear being used as speed brakes?
i thought it was only the gear doors used, not the gear its self.
Main mounts, no tail wheel.
My regards,
Widewing
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Imagine only if the F4U had jets...wait it does now . :aok :rofl
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I guess I just don't see what all the tears are about.
You take a big plane, put in a really big engine swinging a 13' prop and some bent wings that have a pretty good shape and it's gonna go fast and be pretty dang manuverable.
Seems to me that this is becoming more and more of a "my uber spit aint so uber anymore!" thread.
Course I'm just a noob in a 38. I get killed by spits all the time. What do I know?
Bingo73
475th FG
"Satan's Angels"
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I had a good laugh out of this thread because I can't tell a difference in the performance at all. The hog has and will always be great plane for certain situations. I have flown the hog quite a bit and once a person learns the stall characteristics, and masters some of the advantages the hog has, the rest is just manipulation of the angles and speeds. I do like that because of this thread I am seeing quite a bit more hogs in the air, which usually mean easy kills for me. Wetrat is a great stick in the 4-hog btw creton left him out. And one more thing I would like to chime in on, the dropping of the gear is very overrated. One will get more performance from knowing the amount of flaps to deploy at the right time rather than dropping gear every engagement. I kill many hogs with their gear deployed trying to outturn when its really all about the angles.:aok
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BTW, as for the -1d turning rate. I my honest opinion, I hate the 1d for turn fighting. I believe the -1 is a much better turner and its faster and it has alot more range. I also surprised that the -1 has a ENY of 40. -1 is second fastest F4u next to the -4. U only have to load 75% fuel in it to go 4 sectors away and back with some to spare. U get 40 mins of flight time with that. I also like that fuel setting because if I get hit in main fuel tank, I still get 25% in the wings to get me home. The other f4u's only have main I believe.
As far as manevability of the hog, its still the same even after the patch. I been flying that hog now for at least 6 tours straight and I haven't really noticed anything different except for all the uber spits are easier to kill because people haven't learned there new flight model. I forget who it was but I had a la7 try to out dive me from 18k and manev at those speeds. We were doing close to 575mph + and I caught him and killed him. Same with the me262. I can catch those boys in a dive. The hog if flown right can pull out of a 550+mph dive and not break and still manuever to a degree. I believe it was Kreacher who tried to out run my hog in his la7 and after I killed him is said BS!, hehehehe.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I had a good laugh out of this thread because I can't tell a difference in the performance at all. The hog has and will always be great plane for certain situations. I have flown the hog quite a bit and once a person learns the stall characteristics, and masters some of the advantages the hog has, the rest is just manipulation of the angles and speeds. I do like that because of this thread I am seeing quite a bit more hogs in the air, which usually mean easy kills for me. Wetrat is a great stick in the 4-hog btw creton left him out. And one more thing I would like to chime in on, the dropping of the gear is very overrated. One will get more performance from knowing the amount of flaps to deploy at the right time rather than dropping gear every engagement. I kill many hogs with their gear deployed trying to outturn when its really all about the angles.:aok
I didnt leave him out at all.I havent dueled him or even run into him in the main arena.If I would've he'd been on my list ,although dunno what order.
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Originally posted by MwDogg
BTW, as for the -1d turning rate. I my honest opinion, I hate the 1d for turn fighting. I believe the -1 is a much better turner and its faster and it has alot more range. I also surprised that the -1 has a ENY of 40. -1 is second fastest F4u next to the -4. U only have to load 75% fuel in it to go 4 sectors away and back with some to spare. U get 40 mins of flight time with that. I also like that fuel setting because if I get hit in main fuel tank, I still get 25% in the wings to get me home. The other f4u's only have main I believe.
As far as manevability of the hog, its still the same even after the patch. I been flying that hog now for at least 6 tours straight and I haven't really noticed anything different except for all the uber spits are easier to kill because people haven't learned there new flight model. I forget who it was but I had a la7 try to out dive me from 18k and manev at those speeds. We were doing close to 575mph + and I caught him and killed him. Same with the me262. I can catch those boys in a dive. The hog if flown right can pull out of a 550+mph dive and not break and still manuever to a degree. I believe it was Kreacher who tried to out run my hog in his la7 and after I killed him is said BS!, hehehehe.
Dogg you know I likey the 1 but you need give D a second look. It has more power when needed than the 1. Although if you check my tours I have just recently been flying the D. I had forgotten some of the advantages over the 1. Still the 1 is an easy sell for the perkies alone, huh!
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hey people.. i dont know if anyone had already asked, but whats the difference between the real F4U-1A and F4U-1D? they seem to look the same. im guessing its the engine.. but if it is the engine, what exactly did vought change about it?
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
hey people.. i dont know if anyone had already asked, but whats the difference between the real F4U-1A and F4U-1D? they seem to look the same. im guessing its the engine.. but if it is the engine, what exactly did vought change about it?
for starters:
F4U-1 birdcage canopy, single DT, no rkt mounts wiing tanks,
F4U-1A ( AH2 does not have this bird ) had introduction of Bubble canopy
F4U-1D bubble canopy, option of 2 DTs, heaveier ordnance load out including rockets, no wing tanks, is heavier.......
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
F4U-1A ( AH2 does not have this bird ) had introduction of Bubble canopy
Heya TC,
Our F4U-1C is basically a re-gunned late run F4U-1A. It has the wing tanks, but being built near the end of the F4U-1A run, it has the same R2800-8W engine as the F4U-1D.
My regards,
Widewing
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o wait... the F4U-1A has a R-2800-8 and the -1D and -1C have the R-2800-8W? what's the difference between the 2 engines?
P.S. it'd be great to see the F4U-4C and the F6F-5N in the next installment if any.. WOW thatd be fun
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
o wait... the F4U-1A has a R-2800-8 and the -1D and -1C have the R-2800-8W? what's the difference between the 2 engines?
P.S. it'd be great to see the F4U-4C and the F6F-5N in the next installment if any.. WOW thatd be fun
Early F4U-1As had the R2800-8, while later F4U-1As were powered by the R2800-8W. The W indicates Water Injection.
My regards,
Widewing
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oo i see.. thanks Widewing
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Strangely the F4U-1A and -1D have the same R-2800-8W but as the war progressed the HP rating continued to increase for a variety of reasons.
The early R2800-8 was rated at 2,000HP with no ADI
The F4U-1A we have is based on the first -8W at 2135HP
The F4U-1D we have is rated at 2250HP and the last of the F4U-1D's were rated up until 2300HP at sea level with RAM.
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Later F4U-1A's also introduced the paddle prop which improved climb and acceleration. FD's charts for those stats are positively drool-worthy for the early Hogs (What was it, about 3500 fpm sustained climb through 10k on WEP?).
*kICKS AND SCREAMS* I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT!!!! *Starts holding breath*
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Saxman,
Not quite that high on the F4U-1/1D but over 3K per minute above 10K at 12,000LBS.
I have one NAVAER Standard Aircraft performance Characteristic chart that had the top speed without underwing Pylons listed as 367MPH at Sea Level and 434MPH at 20K on the F4U-1D. It is dated mid 1944. Climb is listed slightly better than what we have now.
I have just received a bunch of stuff from the National Archives in DC and then turned around and drove to the National archives in MD and lost half of what I got in DC. I wanted to cry. AnywayI still have some great stuff.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Later F4U-1A's also introduced the paddle prop which improved climb and acceleration. FD's charts for those stats are positively drool-worthy for the early Hogs (What was it, about 3500 fpm sustained climb through 10k on WEP?).
*kICKS AND SCREAMS* I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT! I WANT IT!!!! *Starts holding breath*
Saxman, you have been around way long enough to know that the kicking and screaming DONT work. An HITECh likes it when we hold our breath, cause he knows we will pass out and he can go back to doing his coad stuff.
just ddint wanna loose another stick to the "im holding my breath option"
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I'm always surprised by just how subtle my sense of humor is. ;-)
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Originally posted by Widewing
A lot of guys are learning the hard way that simply turning as tight as possible no longer works as it did before.
My regards,
Widewing
It's the same ..You just have to learn to back off the stall buffet in a tight turn.
F4u's are different now though...it has lost some of that full flap lift boost.
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Bring more Hogfires to AH :aok :rofl
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ok, I am lost now
AH has:
F4U-1 ( wing Tanks )
no F4U-1A ( wing tanks or no wing tanks? doesn't matter AH does not have this plane )
F4U-1C & F4U-1D ( no wing tanks )
if I am wrong correct me please.........if that F4U-1C has wing tanks, I ben flying AH for 5+ years and never knew it, geez
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Some 1As had the wing tanks, some didn't. IIRC, Early 1As had the wing tanks, which were removed for the mid-range of the run, then the later 1As put them back in.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
ok, I am lost now
AH has:
F4U-1 ( wing Tanks )
no F4U-1A ( wing tanks or no wing tanks? doesn't matter AH does not have this plane )
F4U-1C & F4U-1D ( no wing tanks )
if I am wrong correct me please.........if that F4U-1C has wing tanks, I ben flying AH for 5+ years and never knew it, geez
All F4U-1C aircraft manufactured by Vought were simply conversions of standard F4U-1A aircraft. They had the standard F4U-1A fuel system.
In Aces High, they elected to model the Chog with the F4U-1D fuel system, which I believe is incorrect. F4U-1Cs had the same internal fuel capacity as the F4U-1 and F4U-1A. To have that, they had wing tanks.
The 200 converted aircraft were converted from F4U-1As near the end of that model's production run, so they had the same engines (R2800-8W) as did early F4U-1D aircraft.
What some people find confusing is that F4U-1A, F4U-1C and F4U-1D BuNo's were intermingled.
Early F4U-1Cs were painted in the standard 3 color method that most F4U-1As were delivered in.
(http://www.vought.com/heritage/photo/assets/images/db_images/db_1057_06.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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Wide,
Werent the BuNo's intermingled because the limiting step in the manufacture was the availability of the regunned wing assemblies? As I remember, the Hispano laden wings were built by an off site subcontractor. The BuNo's were intermingled, but when a series of F$U-1C's were built in WAS done in a series of 10 or more, which would fit with the subassemblies arriving at that time.
I had thought that the fuel system on a given C-Hog always depended on the fuselage and wing root, to the fuselage side of the wingfold (which I think was the location of the wing tanks.)
So I'd thought our F4u-1C simply represented a bird taken from the line for the cannon wing during the F4U-1D production run. That would make its specifics more of a game design selection, than an incorrect modelling.
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Originally posted by Simaril
I had thought that the fuel system on a given C-Hog always depended on the fuselage and wing root, to the fuselage side of the wingfold (which I think was the location of the wing tanks.)
Integral wing tanks were in the leading edge of the outer wings. These frequently dripped fuel at the panel seams and were sometimes taped like the panels surrounding the main fuselage tank. See images below.
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/f4u1akj_8.jpg)
(http://modelingmadness.com/scotts/allies/us/f4u1ai.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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I love that tricolor scheme. :D
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Originally posted by Widewing
All F4U-1C aircraft manufactured by Vought were simply conversions of standard F4U-1A aircraft. They had the standard F4U-1A fuel system.
In Aces High, they elected to model the Chog with the F4U-1D fuel system, which I believe is incorrect. F4U-1Cs had the same internal fuel capacity as the F4U-1 and F4U-1A. To have that, they had wing tanks.
thx, WW I was just refering to AH, where as the original question states what is the difference in REAL F4Us...I overlooked that in the beginning when I posted....my bad....
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Something I've been wondering...
The F4U-1D and F4U-4 both only have the fuselage tank. Does the -4 have a smaller fuel load than the 1D, or does she just suck down gas that much faster? Because it seems to me that the D-Hog goes a good bit further on internal fuel.
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Saxman,
The F4U-1D has a 237 gallon tank and the F4U-4 has a 234 gallon tank.
The F4U-4 fuel consumption at Mil power was very high, about 300 gallons per minute hence the very short duration of flight at high power in AH. The F4U-1D at mil power only uses about 240 GPH.
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FYI,
The deletion of the wing tanks had largely to do with two things.
1. They leaked like crazy and were very hard to maintain.
2. The type of tank being installed was very expensive and took allot of work to repair. Different types were tried but keeping the tank from dislodging in flight and leaking was just too troublesome.
Having said that the Fleet was not happy when the tanks were deleted because the addition of drop tanks degraded performance much more so than full internal tanks. I read that in a dispatch buried in the archives in old carbon paper. I am probably the only person to read that document in 60 years.
Vought actually tested F4U's with wing tanks full of ADI so the combat power could be used indefinitely. Don't know why they didn't use it in production.
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
Saxman,
The F4U-1D has a 237 gallon tank and the F4U-4 has a 234 gallon tank.
The F4U-4 fuel consumption at Mil power was very high, about 300 gallons per minute hence the very short duration of flight at high power in AH. The F4U-1D at mil power only uses about 240 GPH.
300 gals/min? Thats the one with the afterburners, right?
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It seems to me torque is modeled way more on take-offs/landings than anything else.
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Funny thing about torque
Everybody likes to scream about torque modeling in AH but little is ever shown to represent how much torque should be represented in each A/C.
If you want to know which A/C had the greatest torque effect just look at the POH and see how much rudder and aileron trim was required on takeoff. The more trim the greater the torque effect.
The famed "torque roll" of the F4U had much more to do with the stalling characteristics of the A/C with full flaps deployed. No matter what the engine power was when it stalled it rolled to the left. This was because of an assymetrical stall not the tourque of the engine. On takeoff it only required 6 degrees of rudder trim. Not much to get excited about.
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Originally posted by Flaps
300 gals/min? Thats the one with the afterburners, right?
Haha, it'd be like a commercial I saw a long time ago with a sports car sitting at a gas station. It revved once and went from full to 2/3rds, then again and went from 2/3rds to 1/3, and once more and it was on empty lol.
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i thought we were buddies you could have lied and said i was atleast secound to last :) im jk. im honored to be on your list. one of these days creton im gonna get you in that hog.. be afraid be very very afraid!
Beamer