Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Nomak on April 26, 2006, 10:26:57 PM
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Around 3 months ago my box puked and I am ready to buy some new stuff. I have built one puter in the past with help from a friend who is no longer around so I am going to try this on my own this time.
Before I spend the hard earned money I was hoping for some advice......
Here is what I have priced....
Asus A8N-SLI Premium 939 Socket
XFX GeForce 7800GT 256
Asus Atlas 550Watt power supply
AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Dual core
Corsair XMS DDR400 (PC3200) 512mb x2
I will be reusing my case and harddrive (Western 40gig 7200rpm)
I dunno..... This sound decent? I mean does this combo of parts fit each other well? or is anything out of place here?
My budget is around $1000. That is about what all this costs from Newegg.
Any advice/guidence is welcome.
Thx.... Dave
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Sounds like if it had wings it could fly :aok I have the ASUS A8N mobo & I really like it, it has an easy to set-up bios & a default setting that will kick in automatically if you lock it up.
Also I have Patriot dual channel memory & Toms Hardware had nothing but good things to say about it; ( second in their test only to corsair ) I bought it & it lives up to their praise, just a thought since it's cheaper usually than Corsair.
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Well now long time no see.
Only thing i would mention is the dual core .
To play AH with a dual core and xp you have to disable a core . IIRC
Other than that it should fly.
Get back soon Dave I want to see if I have improved any .
:D
Bronk
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heya Nomak, drop back to the 3700+ san diego core athlon64 and step up your memory to (2) 1 gig sticks of Corsair XMS 3200 memory
still should save you a few bucks.......for ya budget of 1grand, might even save you enough to purchase a SATA II 3.ogig/sec hard drive which will help overall performance as well
welcome back
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Hey Nomak long time no seeeeeeeeeee ...
TC suggested a great ideeer and I agree
ive got almost the same set up at work at it SCREAMS .
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I think that the AMD64x2 3800+ will give ~ same speed in AH2 as an AMD64 3200+. (single core) (Both has 2.0GHz with 512MB L2)
AMD 3700+ is single core with 1GB L2 @ 2.2GHz.
I have heard that dual core does not give more speed in games today, but I dont know what dual core will give us next year :)
Then again, a dual core CPU might help now today also, as stuff that hapens in the background while you play, should be using the "free" core.
Personaly, I will buy a dual core, because I belive it has more "potential" than adding 200MHz and 512MB L2. And also because I think it sounds cool and kinda fun to have to CPU :lol
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I agree with TC. Go with a single core cpu because AH doesn't like dual core AMD cpus, and bump the memory to 2 gigs (2x1 gig sticks).
I'd also get a better hard drive. You can get a nice 160 or 200 gig SATA drive with 8 or 16 meg cache for around $100, and the performance increase will be noticeable over an older 40 gig drive. Slap that old drive in an external USB chassis and use it for backups.
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Thx for the input fellas.
A couple more questions..... Under the "Memory" spec for the mother board it says "DDR400 PC3200" Does that mean that I need to use pc3200 only for my ram? Or can faster stuff be used?
Also, Would it be better to go with say 2 6600gt vid cards in SLI as opposed to one 7800gt? I can do either for about the same price.
I am hoping to place the order in a couple hours here...... Yeah Im getting giddy :)
Thx again.... Dave
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The faster spec'd memory is for overclocking , the pc 3500 3700 4000 is memory guaranteed to run at an overclocked speed . While you can run the memory at a higher speed , you have to overclock the cpu to get it there.
Ive seen benchmarks somewhere that had 2 6600GT's VS a 7800gt , and in games the 7800gt beat them , in synthetic benchmarks , im pretty sure the 6600's had higher scores. I would go with the 7800gt if AH is your main priority . 38
EDIT : Here is where i saw the two compared , this link is to a quake bench , but there are more games tested in the article
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/02/vga_charts_viii/page11.html
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There is nothing wrong with faster rated memory. In fact, you may gain a small bit of reliability when using faster rated memory. Just realize that if you aren't overclocking, a typical Athlon 64 system runs the memory at PC3200 speeds, or 200mhz bus speed.
For a vid card, I'd go with a single 7xxx card over any dual 6xxx sli setup any day. The new cards that come out every 8 months or so are so fast that it's rarely worth buying 2 of the last generation cards instead of buying the latest generation. SLI is IMHO only for those who consider price to be of no concern... If you're going to go SLI, you may as well go for two of the fastest cards on the planet, price be damned.
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Nomak,
Im running A8 SLI Deluxe,
PurePower 550
FX53
Corsair xms super low latencey 2-3-2-6?
Audigy ZS
BFG 6800 GT (256)
2300gig x SATA II RAID 0
Small Pac, 1600x 1200, 512 tex loaded to ram I get
85fps pegged with sliders 95% the way to the left (detail).
Dont bother with SLI, if you get that 7800, and spend the extra money on processor the thing will screw.
Balsy
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If you're going to go SLI, you may as well go for two of the fastest cards on the planet, price be damned.
That would be a waste of money, a single 7900GTX can outperform two 7800GT's in SLI & the 7900GTX is more than any current CPU can fully utilize at the momment so why have two? ( plus the outrageous power requirements )
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Originally posted by Nomak
A couple more questions..... Under the "Memory" spec for the mother board it says "DDR400 PC3200" Does that mean that I need to use pc3200 only for my ram? Or can faster stuff be used?
.... Dave
I would make sure I got low latency (CAS 2) RAM, as this is more important in memory than the rating of 3200, 3500 .... etc. RAM rated faster than what matches your CPU's bus speed is mostly for overclocking or possible cpu upgrades in the future that may run at higher bus speeds. You can certainly use PC4000 but if it is CAS 3 it may actually not perform as well as PC3200 or 3500 rated at CAS 2.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
That would be a waste of money, a single 7900GTX can outperform two 7800GT's in SLI & the 7900GTX is more than any current CPU can fully utilize at the momment so why have two? ( plus the outrageous power requirements )
Not to be argumentative , but this isnt good information . Ive only found one test in the article below where 1 7900gtx beat 2X7800GT in SLI and that was in a lower res test of battlefield2 . The rest of the tests show the 7800gts beat a single 7900gtx by as much as 20fps in some areas , and as low a 2 -3 fps in others . I'm just stating this as alot of people are running single 7800gt's , and i wouldnt want them to bypass an SLI option due to the statement above . 38
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2717&p=8
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I had two 7800's in SLI. I replaced them with the single 7900GTX. I'm just speaking from my own first hand experience when I say the 7900GTX outperforms the two 7800GT's, they may not on everyones PC or in all the artificial benchies...that's just how it worked for me. I had the same frame rates but with higher detail settings using the 7900GTX.
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Some good info there guys..... Thx again.
I hate to say this but I cheaped out a bit......
I decided to try to revamp my old box yet again..... So I ended up ordering the AMD 3700 that TC and Roo recommended, I also got the Corsair ram 2x 512 and an Asus MB.
I am reusing my Power Supply, Hard drive, and my (cringe) AGP 6800gt. I just couldnt get over the fact that 18 months ago that 6800gt cost me 400 bucks. Dang PCI express......
Because the MB was AGP it was cheap. Did the whole deal for 425.00. I paid for Fedex next day (like 20 bucks more) yet here it is the next day and no stuff :furious
I will let ya know how it turns out
Dave
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Originally posted by Nomak
Some good info there guys..... Thx again.
I hate to say this but I cheaped out a bit......
I decided to try to revamp my old box yet again..... So I ended up ordering the AMD 3700 that TC and Roo recommended, I also got the Corsair ram 2x 512 and an Asus MB.
I am reusing my Power Supply, Hard drive, and my (cringe) AGP 6800gt. I just couldnt get over the fact that 18 months ago that 6800gt cost me 400 bucks. Dang PCI express......
Because the MB was AGP it was cheap. Did the whole deal for 425.00. I paid for Fedex next day (like 20 bucks more) yet here it is the next day and no stuff :furious
I will let ya know how it turns out
Dave
I would like to hear how that MB works out. I still have a 6800 GT and good 939 boards with AGP are getting harder to find.
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Originally posted by Nomak
Some good info there guys..... Thx again.
I hate to say this but I cheaped out a bit......
I decided to try to revamp my old box yet again..... So I ended up ordering the AMD 3700 that TC and Roo recommended, I also got the Corsair ram 2x 512 and an Asus MB.
I am reusing my Power Supply, Hard drive, and my (cringe) AGP 6800gt. I just couldnt get over the fact that 18 months ago that 6800gt cost me 400 bucks. Dang PCI express......
Because the MB was AGP it was cheap. Did the whole deal for 425.00. I paid for Fedex next day (like 20 bucks more) yet here it is the next day and no stuff :furious
I will let ya know how it turns out
Dave
Don't worry about that 6800GT agp...it's a good card & still competitive. I don't know what your previous set-up was...but it's my hunch the better CPU & memory will boost the performance of the 6800GT to levels of performance you didn't think possible.
*edit: By the way, the next time you get parts use Newegg if you can shop there without paying state taxes & use regular ups ground shipping. I always get my stuff in two days.
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Originally posted by DAVENRINO
I would like to hear how that MB works out. I still have a 6800 GT and good 939 boards with AGP are getting harder to find.
I will definatly let ya know how it goes Bud.
Just FYI..... It was $66.99. Here is some info
Model
Brand ASUS
Model A8V
Supported CPU
CPU Socket Type Socket 939
CPU Type Athlon 64 FX/Athlon 64/Athlon X2
FSB 1000MHz Hyper Transport (2000 MT/s)
Chipsets
North Bridge VIA K8T800 Pro
South Bridge VIA VT8237
Memory
Number of DDR Slots 4x 184pin DDR
DDR Standard DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Maximum Memory Supported 4GB
Dual Channel Supported Yes
Expansion Slots
AGP Slots 1x AGP 4X/8X
PCI Express x16 None
PCI Slots 5
Storage Devices
PATA 2 x ATA100 up to 4 Devices
SATA 1.5 Gb/s 2
SATA RAID RAID 0/1/0+1
Onboard Audio
Audio Chipset Realtek ALC850
Audio Channels 8 Channels
Onboard LAN
LAN Chipset Marvell 88E8001
Max LAN Speed 10/100/1000Mbps
Rear Panel Ports
PS/2 2
COM 1
LPT 1
USB 4x USB 2.0
S/PDIF Out 1x Coaxial
Audio Ports 6 Ports
Onboard USB
Onboard USB 4x USB 2.0
Physical Spec
Form Factor ATX
Dimensions 12.0" x 9.6"
Features
Power Pin 20 Pin
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i myself perfur the Nforce chipset over the via ...
one thing is i hope your old powersupply is up to it .. my old antec keeled over and died when i upgraded .... its now buried in my "Closet from Hell"
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Originally posted by Brenjen
Don't worry about that 6800GT agp...it's a good card & still competitive. I don't know what your previous set-up was...but it's my hunch the better CPU & memory will boost the performance of the 6800GT to levels of performance you didn't think possible.
*edit: By the way, the next time you get parts use Newegg if you can shop there without paying state taxes & use regular ups ground shipping. I always get my stuff in two days.
Well the original setup was as follows....
Asus A7V600 400FSB
Athlon XP2500+ Clocked to a 3200+
GeForce FX5600 256 (Leadtek)
512 PC2700 DDR
350 Watt PS
Western 40 Gig 7200 rpm
(All of this was high end stuff at the time)
The Leadtek 5600 turned out to be PooPoo and I had nothing but probs with it. Newegg ended up giving me a full credit on a return. I used a GeForce 4 ti4200 (used from a friend) for over a year. Then I bought a ATI9800 pro and another stick of 512. That was a real nice video card. I used that for another year or so.
Upgraded to a PNY GeForce 6800GT 256. To be honest I really didnt see any improvements over the 9800. At this point I realized that my cpu was the bottlekneck. I was running the Video and the processor Overclocked for a long time. I think that was the ultimate demise of the processor. After a while the puter would lock up on start up and give me error messages about how the processor was catching on startup. A week or two later it quit all together......
So the new set up will be....
Asus A8V 1000 FSB
Athlon 64 3700+
1 Gig Corsair PC3200 DDR400
40 Gig Western 7200
PNY GeForce 6800GT
350 Watt PS (I hope its enough :( )
My old set up was running AH fine 3 months ago before it quit so I am banking on the new set up to be good for a while.
Again thx for the interest and the comments.
Dave
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
i myself perfur the Nforce chipset over the via ...
Talk to me brother...... I dont know/Understand the difference.....
one thing is i hope your old powersupply is up to it .. my old antec keeled over and died when i upgraded .... its now buried in my "Closet from Hell" [/B]
Yeah I hear ya..... at least Power Supplys aernt to God awful expensive.
Dave
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power supply .... Sorry Dave but your gonna need it ..
Btw Watcha doing with that 2500+ barton outta ur old pc ???
I could use one for Mrs Roo's pc . ( Got a few $$ i could send ya to offset your Power supply purchase)
oh yea
A8N <--- this third diget the N means its an Nforce chipset
A8V <-- 3rd didget means its a VIA chipset
amds love the nforce chipsets
intels like VIA or intel chipsets more
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
power supply .... Sorry Dave but your gonna need it ..
Btw Watcha doing with that 2500+ barton outta ur old pc ???
I could use one for Mrs Roo's pc . ( Got a few $$ i could send ya to offset your Power supply purchase)
oh yea
A8N <--- this third diget the N means its an Nforce chipset
A8V <-- 3rd didget means its a VIA chipset
amds love the nforce chipsets
intels like VIA or intel chipsets more
Kewl thx for the info.....
Roo , I have always liked you and I think we have always gotten along well. That being said..... You can have the cpu, heat sink and fan for the cost of shipping alone. However please be aware that I think the cpu is junk at this point. I am not doing this because I want better performance..... I am doing it because the puter was literally totally inoperative. As in not functioning. I believe that the cpu was the failure. I dont know that for sure but I am fairly confident.
The call is yours. PM me if you want it.
Dave
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pm sent Sir :)
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
i myself perfur the Nforce chipset over the via ...
I also prefer the Nforce boards and haven't had a Via for a long time. A search on Newegg only finds one Gigabyte, one Epox and one ECS with AGP and Nforce3 for 939 and none of them get rave reviews from those who bought them. I may try the same route if this setup works for Dave.
Originally posted by Nomak
Then I bought a ATI9800 pro and another stick of 512. That was a real nice video card. I used that for another year or so.
Upgraded to a PNY GeForce 6800GT 256. To be honest I really didnt see any improvements over the 9800. At this point I realized that my cpu was the bottlekneck. I was running the Video and the processor Overclocked for a long time. I think that was the ultimate demise of the processor. After a while the puter would lock up on start up and give me error messages about how the processor was catching on startup. A week or two later it quit all together......
My old set up was running AH fine 3 months ago before it quit so I am banking on the new set up to be good for a while.
Again thx for the interest and the comments.
Dave
My old Barton has been running great for bout 3 years at 3200+ speed. I originally built it with an ATI 9800XT which I still use in my Guam machine so I don't really want to take the 6800GT to Guam and buy a PCI Exp card for Hawaii. I hope it all works for you but I think you will be lucky if the Power Supply is going to work.
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If it's a *GOOD* 350w power supply it may still be fine. If not, it should be obvious because your new parts won't work right. If anything fails to function, video problems, instability, etc., then you may be better off going for a new PS instead of trying to troubleshoot very much.
Of course, it may work just fine. You'll have to see.
I'd still consider a better hard drive if I were you. That 40 gig drive is a bottleneck now.
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Originally posted by eagl
If it's a *GOOD* 350w power supply it may still be fine. If not, it should be obvious because your new parts won't work right. If anything fails to function, video problems, instability, etc., then you may be better off going for a new PS instead of trying to troubleshoot very much.
Of course, it may work just fine. You'll have to see.
I'd still consider a better hard drive if I were you. That 40 gig drive is a bottleneck now.
agreed, save up and get you a SATA hard drive 7200 rpm or 10,000 rpm with the biggest cache size on the HD you can afford.if you just building this as a gaming PC, don't go to extreme on HD size, keeping it say 80gig should be good enough, only bigger if you are needing storage space. On the Power Supply, cough up the doe and by a respectable PS, I prefer Antec, a good 500/550 watt PS will run ya 60 to 100 bucks.......but is well worth the cost......
I truely have learned alot from people posting in this forum, and I myself stay with Nvidia Nforce chip AMD boards, the old Via chipset boards I have had in the past always seemed to have problems even if it was just on occassion.....
but we all experience different things, Dave, you might not have 1 single problem and everything work just fine for you, so don't worry about anything UNTIL something does happen :aok
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I finished my build yesterday. The A8N family of boards has an ac'97 block for your front panel audio. It should have 2 jumpers installed on it. W/out the jumpers, your rear panel speaker jacks WONT work. If you want to plu your FP audio jack into that board you'll have to give up your rear speakers.
This is an annoyance because I use the front panel for my headset & dont want to get behind the case swapping jacks to listen to my speakers.
If youve already ordered the board, search for a website called "the home for the asus A8N family" or look in the official asus forum for the link. It's some guys in UK who setup a forum just for that mobo and they've already helped me w/ some overclocking crash recovery (heheh).
On the bright side - my A8N5X w/ 3000+ is unbelievable. Its incredible. I'm in awe of the performance increase and the video quality from my X800GTO is amazing. I still have a lot of kinks to work out . . .
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for quick going from headsets to speakers in ac97 type sound or other onboard
i just put a Y lead in and either turn off the amp in the speakers or zero the volumn on the speakers .. use the pc's software volumn controls for the headset volumn.
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Shes Formating as I speak.........
Muhahahaha
Dave
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Good Luck Sir .
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Any bench marks I should run?
Dave
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Run prime95 if you like...give it 24 hours & if it passes all the tests it's solid. But on the other hand AHII will stress it more than Prime95 & give you more information on how it performs than an artificial benchmark will. In other words use AHII as your benchie!:D
But that's just my opinion...you know what they say about those.
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After a buildup I run memchk86 overnight, run prime95 overnight the next day, and in between I run whatever 3dmark version was current when my vid card came out. I don't care about the absolute number of the 3dmark results, but if it runs without crashing and the results are in the general ballpark for similiar computers in the 3dmark results database, then I figure nothing is really messed up. If you get 3dmark scores 20% or so below everyone else though, then that's a good clue that something isn't working right.
I agree about AH being a good test... If it runs AH without crashing and you get decent performance, then it's ok.
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Well I have to say that I am happy. I am getting between 60 and 100 fps out of this new set up. It usually stays around 80. Its better than I expected really.
Thx.... Dave