Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on October 18, 2001, 10:14:00 AM
-
..now my tax dollars will be spent keeping this scum alive.
Saudi Man Given Life Term for Kenya Bombing
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Mohamed Rashed Daoud al-'Owhali, a Saudi citizen, was sentenced on Thursday to life in prison without parole for his direct role in the 1998 bombing of the U.S. embassy in Nairobi, Kenya.
Al-'Owhali, 24, was convicted by a Manhattan federal jury in May with three others for conspiring with Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) to kill Americans in a plot that included the bombings of the U.S. embassy in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.
Although al-'Owhali could have been sentenced to death, the jury was deadlocked on whether he should be executed. Because they could not agree, U.S. District Judge Leonard Sand was required under federal law to sentence him to life in prison.
-
maybe he was sad? :( we should also shell out for counseling and group therapy. he probably just had a bad childhood. poor lil guy...
;)
-
You guys don't get it. The US is totally responsible.
See.. they had this GREAT civilization.. leadership in mathematics, science.. very advanced. Military power? They almost made it to Paris in 732 but they were turned back by Martel.
Unfortunately, that was "high tide". They had gloriously slain a lot of infidels but... Slowly, in fits and starts, Islam was pushed back.
By the mid-1100's, there were Christians occupying Islamic territory, including Jerusalem. By 1300, the Christians were pretty well pushed back out and the Euro's gave up on conquering the Holy Land. (I'm still working out how to blame this on the US 1000 years before it's creation, but I'll find a way.)
While the Euro's went on to evolving their societies, defining the "rights of man" (and woman), building bigger and better cities, etc., the Muslims didn't.
The stuck to their holy book with it's rules on how to run a 7th century society and treat women like slaves... and stuck with it for another 1300+ years.
As one recent article put it "And when contrasted with the success of Israel, Arab failures are even more humiliating. For all its flaws, out of the same desert Israel has created a functioning democracy, a modern society with an increasingly high-technology economy and thriving artistic and cultural life. Israel treats its 1m Arabs as second-class citizens, a disgrace on its democracy, yet it accords them more political rights and dignities than most Arab nations give to their own people. This is the tragedy of the Arab world."
... and so, in the end, this poor creature had no other option. He had to attack the US, the Great Satan that has "kept the Muslim man DOWN!"
Oh, wait... maybe they kept themselves down by not evolving beyond an unchanged 7th century religion that provided them with leadership either by dictatorial kings or dictatorial religious leaders?
Nah, no way.
Only thing left is to gloriously slay some more infidels and return to their proper place in the world. While keeping their women as slaves of course....
Ah, the good old days!
-
Damn, Toad... nicely put.
The big question...
Was Martel French?
-
Much as it must disappoint you Hang... :D
"Charles Martel
Charles Martel
Pronounced As: märtel [O.Fr.,=Charles the Hammer], 688?-741, Frankish ruler, illegitimate son of Pepin of Heristal and grandfather of Charlemagne. After the death of his father (714) he seized power in Austrasia from Pepin's widow, who was ruling as regent for her grandsons, and became mayor of the palace. He subsequently subdued the W Frankish kingdom of Neustria and began the reconquest of Burgundy, Aquitaine, and Provence. Charles Martel defeated the Spanish Muslims at the battle of Tours (732-33) and began the military campaigns that reestablished the Franks as the rulers of Gaul. Although he never assumed the title of king, he divided the Frankish lands, like a king, between his sons Pepin the Short and Carloman."
... as a side note:
"In 732 Abd-er-Rahman, Governor of Spain, crossed the Pyrenees at the head of an immense army, overcame Duke Eudes, and advanced as far as the Loire, pillaging and burning as he went. In October, 732, Charles met Abd-er-Rahman outside of Tours and defeated and slew him in a battle (the Battle of Poitiers) which must ever remain one of the great events in the history of the world, as upon its issue depended whether Christian Civilization should continue or Islam prevail throughout Europe. It was this battle, it is said, that gave Charles his name, Martel (Tudites) "The Hammer", because of the merciless way in which he smote the enemy."
No stand-ins for this guy; he was out front leading.
Why did we ever let that change? :confused:
-
Eagler,
Not to worry, You should know that "Bubba", that never diminishing fount of testosterone, is patiently waiting in his cell for his new "wife" Owhalla to arive. Honeymoon plans have been in the works for days. The new nuptual cell is prepared. "Soap is for sissies", according to "bubba".
Mav :D
-
This guy will prolly last 6 months before a shiv is shoved in his back and I bet noone will see a thing :D
-
They won't last a month...... when word gets out that they are with OBL, they will be beat down so fast..... lethal injection would be a walk in the park compaired to what they are gonna get. not to mention, untill they get killed in prison, they will be someones squeak.
-
If your holy book is the word of your god, why should it be changed?
Compare and contrast with the Christian bible, whose current content has been modified for political reasons for the last two thousand years. Perhaps most notably is the number of gospel accounts, which was decided for political expediency to suit the church hierarchy.
All religion is the same to me. The Koran is as good a read as the Bible, although I've only just started.
-
I doubt if convicts treat their squeakes as bad as the tali ban treats their women.
[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: easymo ]
-
ummmm... maybe because if you use your _religion_ as your _political structure_
....then you need to adapt to a changing world? You know all that Science stuff and "rights of man" philosophical stuff?
Of course, might be easier NOT to use your religion as your politicial structure, you think?
-
Well Dowding, straying alittle off your mark, I work with an engineer here at Boeing that is one of my closest co-workers in 3 years. He's from Iran, came over in 1979 at age 18, after living in Iran and growing up with the Koran. All religion aside, he told us frankly this:
These Muslim Extremists hate ALL western society (This includes you Dowding)..they do NOT want to negotiate, sit down at a table and work things out, they only want to kill you. Plain and simple, you must die. Whatever means it takes, they will try to succeed. We must kill them before they kill us."
Our conversation was much deeper than this, we spoke of the Japanese suicide troops/fighter pilots/naval personal, he brought up some good points..."Those people had a sense of nationality, love of country, love of mother and father, and girlfriends that awaited them...these extremists have none of that, they hate women to the point that they rate lower than a dog, they have only one thing in mind, kill infidels, they are much more dangerous than the Japanese ever were because frankly, these folks are robots."
Anyway, just thought I'd share that.
-
I think reading the Koran will give you about as much insight on the Muslim terrorist as reading the Bible would give insight on an abortion doctor killer....
the message of most major religions is the same, it is man's interpretation that screws it up.
-
Eagler is absolutely correct. Its all about how one interprets God or Allah or whatever god or being they worship. I have not read the Koran, but I doubt it says anything about destroying all non-Muslims. But just like people here who purposely misinterpret the Bible (and even the Constitution) to further their own agendas, there are people over there who do too, and the weak minded will follow them.
-
Surely if your god (indirectly) handed this book of moral guidance to you, you should base your whole system of government around it? Afterall, surely an almighty deity would equip you with everything you needed to live until you were admitted to your afterlife? Also, why should there be any change to deal with?
Personally, I believe religion is a personal choice - religion defined as meaning 'way of life' - and should be independant of government.
Science hasn't exactly been embraced by religion. The two border on mutual exclusivity at times. Wasn't there a survey done in the US that looked at attitudes to the Christian creation story? The results showed that a significant proportion believed the literal version of Adam and Eve over Darwinism. I'm sure it's a similar story in other mainly Christian countries.
Of course, interpretation of religious text is and has been the biggest problem for millenia.
Ripsnort - I understand what you are saying. But being British and specifically English, if I walked into a certain pub, in a certain part of Belfast and ordered a drink, what do you reckon the outcome would be? Hatred is not something new. We have to deal with it as we have always dealt with it.
-
Originally posted by Eagler:
the message of most major religions is the same, it is man's interpretation that screws it up.
the message of most religions is we are right and you are wrong! we are good and you are bad.
- so now is a good time to leave religion where it belongs - as a relic of our primitive past when the night, moon and changing seasons scared us and didn't know how to treat each other or cope with the unknown.
haven't enough gods come and gone yet for the world to get it? what's zeus up to these days hmmmm?
does it surprise anyone that of the thousands of gods we've been subjected to and died and killed for over the centuries, none actually show themselves?
seen any blue, 4 armed flaming eyed dieties walking thru your hood lately? any miraculous buring bushes give you any insights this week? - coincidence? oh but that's their god huh - yours is much more credible whatever it/he/she is...
it's time to go on into the unknown and accept our insignificant place in an eternal and mysterious universe without our wubby, teddy and nightlite. quit living to die and live here and now.
we should extinguish religion before it extinguishes us. i'm sick of it. it's not 'man's poor interpretation of god's divine word'! it couldn't be a more clear case of 'us vs them'.
i mean the texts of almost every religion say we go to heaven and you are wrong and bad if you aren't with us - what's to misinterpret??
it's just an irritating stupid relic. grow up world and quit being afraid of the dark.
-
Well, surely you read the "Excellent article on Arab vs West relations" thread and the accompanying article at :
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/10/14/stiusausa03007.html? (http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/10/14/stiusausa03007.html?)
So, (IMO) since you always like to argue the opposition position in any remotely pro-US related thread go ahead and explain why
"if your god (indirectly) handed this book of moral guidance to you, you should base your whole system of government around it"
are they so filled with hate and envy? Why are they so unhappy with the governments/dictatorships that have resulted?
They hold their own destiny in their hands yet their societies obviously causes them great disappointment.
They have the book; they've had around 1300 years to put it into practice...with basically NOTHING to show for it.
Things haven't gone sour for them in the last 60 years.. the years since the US stepped to the forefront on the world stage.
Things WENT sour for them LONG before that... and they did NOTHING to improve their lot or change their mode of operation.
Why do they not take care of their fellow starving Muslim brothers? Why is the "Great Satan" the largest donor of aid to Afghanistan and not an oil-rich country like Saudi Arabia?
...ah, because the god-given book, the precepts of which have made many of them into the poorest, most barbaric nations in the world is perfect, right?
Despite the obvious real-world evidence that has surrounded them for the last 1000 years and has made them miserable and envious, they KNOW they are the "chosen".
Some book.
Surely, I'm wrong. I know you'll correct me. :D
-
mrfish
I was born and raised a catholic, altar boy & all, but do not practice it. I don't think it did me any harm, catholic shool to just about HS.
Maybe many believe in a heaven or hell, I believe we are already in the latter. Isn't it relative? Prob I had with the h or h was that it is to cut and dry and way to short an answer. I believe in an ever ongoing journey of enlightenment or whatever you want to call it on which one life just doesn't cut it. It's a karma thing, reap what so you, ying & yang, so on & so forth. To think you are judged for eternity on what you do in what, 80 years max, seems a stretch for me. I'm afraid I'll be back many times to come...
Plus side is I'll be around for AH ver 210.02 :)
For all it's problems I think the average Joe needs the guidelines religion, and its beliefs, places on ones conduct & moral structure. Some of the most "Christian" & giving ppl I know have never set foot in a church, dont know the first prayer.
kinda strayed off topic again - sry..
[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]
-
Because, Toad, the Koran is basically roadkill. It's like the Christian bible - full of promises with no real basis in fact, as you point out. Suppositions and superstitions.
A great story and if people wish to base the lives on it, that's fine by me. And frankly, its none of my business - providing they don't try and dictate how to live my life, based on their own beliefs.
I have no idea why certain Muslims hate and envy the West. I'm mystified by the extent of anti-US or anti-West feeling in certain quarters. Less so in others. But I will say this - look at the regions where Islam is based compared to those where Christianity has a stronghold. Europe had plenty of resources from which to develop a semblence of civilisation, based on what we consider human rights. Food was plentiful and more effort could be expended on development of processes that would improve living conditions. When you have an empty stomach, you're less likely to consider the finer points of philosophy. ;)
Now compare that situation with the Middle East. Food production has always been difficult and drought and famine have never been far away. This has stunted the development of civilisation on a par with that in the West.
Consequently, the only thing I can think of to explain the current situation is that it is a symptom of the tension that exists between the 'haves and the have-nots'. Religion is just a vehicle for it and a way certain individual/groups gain support, through their particular 'interpretation'.