Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Lord ReDhAwK on April 29, 2006, 12:25:17 PM
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Huge Salute to Kev and Guppy for helping me find and implement her. This is a 17G from 214 Squadron. Standard RAF colors. Letters BU-G, # identifier HB817. Lots of fun making this one :)
Have not completed Oil drips or smoke stains. Any and all helpful critiques most welcome. Historic photos and skin follow:
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/Dudes.jpg)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/HB817 BU-G Spring 1945.jpg)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/AHViewer.gif)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/AH3-4L.gif)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/AH3-4R.gif)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/AHFrontU.gif)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/AHTop.gif)
ReDhAwK
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Ooh! Not half bad!!
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Wow, nice work man ! :aok
Would you think it would look better with A bit more dirt ?
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More dirt is no problem ur Kazaaness. Let me see a little more feedback and I will make all the changes at once.
I guess "not half bad" from Krusty should be taken as a compliment :)
Thx gents,
ReDhAwK
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That's looking really nice, it will be a great skin when it's dirtied up. Its always good to see more RAF skins.
I think the green/brown camouflage matching where the wings join the engine nacelles could be improved, despite the awkward nacelle mirroring. There may also be another camouflage mismatch on the top of the inboard nacelles.
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Originally posted by Lord ReDhAwK
I guess "not half bad" from Krusty should be taken as a compliment :)
As was intended!
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Thanks Greebo. Yes, the camo is fubared because of the mirroring issue on the engine joining the wing. I have it down to the pixel before the stretch occurs. Any idea or a visual representation of something "proper?"
Personally I cant stand the joint of the two. I guess I tried to fake it till it felt right before putting it up for you guys to critique.
More dirt coming up :D
ReDhAwK
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lol. The "not half bad" from you has made my day Lord Krusty :) Thnky sir.
ReDhAwK
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Looks great RedHawk :) Nice to see something different for the 17. Thanks for taking the time to do that for the rest of us
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Heh, can we impose upon you to do a white coastal command version next? :D
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Nice -
Can see maybe three errors (maybe a texture issue),
1) The NIVO on the undersides of the engine nacelles should come up level with the upper/lower camo demarcation on the wing leading edge.
2) The NIVO on the tail should start a lot further forward
(http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/aircraft/images/1944/1944-p016747-B-Fortress-III.jpg)
If you look at the tail, NIVO curves down from the tail (fwd of the fin flash) to the fuselage just behind the 'W' of the sqn code.
3) Spinners should be NIVO not camo.
As for the mirroring, post it in the Bugs forum, there isn't supposed to be anymore mirroring used due to problems it causes.
The P51-D had a texture screwup on the leading edge when first released, I posted pics showing the problem, was fixed the next patch.
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May have a work-around for your mirroring prob :)
If you base the wings on this Lancaster all the engine nacelles are Dark Earth, therefore no mirorring problems.
(http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/Lanc-1.jpg)
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Good point there Kev.
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Thx for all the input guys.
Kev, I have made the corrections to the spinner and the tail section as you pointed out. I have also made correction to the engines but am still running into a stretching issue. You will find two pics attached.
#1
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/stretch.gif)
you will notice the funky stretch (this is painted one pixel above the next pic break line.)
#2
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/Nostretch.gif)
no stretch indicated
I cannot believe that this stretch is gonna be the only thing to keep me from submitting this...please god no! :)
Ur Krustyness, I'd be happy to do the coastal for you sir. Let me get this one finalized first ;)
ReDhAwK
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One more thing Kev,
I noticed on the Lanc pic that there is dark earth on the nose. Should I duplicate that paint onto the 17? I cant tell on the period pic :(
ReDhAwK
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I'd stick an extra Dark Earth band on the nose.
Looks real good!!!
You should definately post the pic with the stretching / mirroring on the bugs forum.
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If you went with the lower line to avoid the stretching, would it be possible to bring the line up to the leading edge, like this?
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/rafb17sc1.jpg)
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Thats a fantastic idea Greebo. I will try it tonight when I get in from work. Thanky Sir!
ReDhAwK
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Salute Lord Greebo :)
Worked P E R F E C T!
Great idea on the work-around. Let me throw another one at you (the last I believe.) The nose section in front of the canopy; all the way to the glass nose, mirrors left and right. I have found no way to work around the mirroring effect. I posted it in the bugs section. The mirroring is EXACT! No working a camo band on the nose unless it is in unison from left to right or vice versa. Unless fixed she will have to be submitted without the forward camo band :(
Any ideas guys?
ReDhAwK
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Do the Dark Earth band on the part that mirrors, use the area just behind it (no mirroring) to do the demarcation line.
Keep it as close as possible, I think it should look OK.
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Wilco Kev. I will post a pic manana. Thanks for the input sir.
ReDhAwK
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:eek: :aok
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Salute Kev, Dan, Greebo et' al,
Sorry in delay of updated post. Called outta town with work.
I have made the 3 corrections Kev pointed out (Spinner Nivo, nivo on tail further forward, nivo coming level with upper camo "with Greebos suggestion".) Which IMHO worked perfectly :aok
Anyway, I have dirtied her up, scratches, oil, smoke. It really did give me more to work on her by being away. You will also notice the work-around I did on the nose camo band per Kevs suggestion. I tried to implement as much curve as I could so it wasnt just "blocky" with all the other curve in the camo scheme.
3 pics attached. Scrutinize and feedback please. I gotta get this one done so I can get Kazaa's Coastal done (Im bribing him not to kill me in that Ki again) :t
ReDhAwK
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr1.jpg)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr2.jpg)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr3.jpg)
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bravo! :cool:
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Its looking really good Redhawk, the cowling camo still looks off to me though. I reckon it would look better with the green/brown camo lines adjusted something like this. You'd need to make the back part of each nacelle green and then adjust the wing camo to match.
The wing roundels also look a bit big compared to Kev's photo.
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/rafb17sc2.jpg)
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Greebo's got the ticket! I was thinking something similar myself, but was too busy to photochop an example up :P
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Rgr gents. Just in from work. I will put me on some coffee and have it updated for you tonight. I appreciate the help :aok
ReDhAwK
btw, noticed I owe Krusty the Coastal 17, not Kazaa :) Still; Kazaa, stop shootin me down :t
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You owe me naught but to enjoy the game! :) I'd owe you one if you made it for me though ;)
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Heh! Rgr. I will be more than happy to make her for ya sir :)
OK..Updated
Greebo, I really like the direction you took me. Much improved I believe. I redid the dark earth bands to go with the dark green on the nacelle. Sexy curves now baby ;)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr4.jpg)
Reduced the Roundals by 15% on the wings.
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr5.jpg)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr6.jpg)
Can't believe Im going to say this but she still seems to be missing something. Not sure what. Ideas? Suggestions?
ReDhAwK
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Can't believe Im going to say this but she still seems to be missing something. Not sure what. Ideas? Suggestions?
ReDhAwK
Dirt & exhaust residue..
Looks greats:aok
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The camo looks a lot better now. Maybe you could add a shadow effect behind the cowling flaps. Also make the cowling flap panel lines heavier than the other panel lines. Narrow shadows on the leading edges of the control surfaces would make them stand out more than the other panel lines.
The exhaust stain effects could be increased a bit and maybe add some stains behind the fuel filler caps. Also a few oil leaks behind the engines.
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Engine cowling flaps shading -
Heres a pic of a jug I did, just a simple gaussian blur.
(http://www.ah-skins.com/skins/screenshot344.jpg)
For the control surfaces shading use two layers, 1 dark, 1 light. Yet again simple single line gaussian blurred. Dark line next to the join, highlight line just behind it.
Look at the aileron on this one.
(http://www.ah-skins.com/skins/screenshot389.jpg)
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Alrighty then, lets have a look at these :cool:
Added:
o More dirt
o Oil stains behind and along engines
o Smoke staining behind engines and out of exhausts
o Weathered paint more on all leading edges
o Shadow behind cowling flaps
o Shadow on leading edge of control surfaces
o fuel drips from caps
o placed monkey in the navigator seat :huh
lol, we will get there together, Thx for all the input gents. Im learning much :aok
ReDhAwK
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr7.jpg)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr8.jpg)
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr9.jpg)
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Looking good.
Tip to help soften the panel lines.
Duplicate your dark panel line layer.
Gaussian blur it (around 4.0 in PSP)
Put it underneath you dark and light panel line layers, adjust opacity to suit.
To add a little extra - before blurring it use the color replacer to change it to a darkish brown. Looks like grime after blurring.
For rivets to avoid the big tank bolt look -
Draw them in black using the pen tool, they come out slightly aliased.
Then duplicate the layer and gausian blur (0.5 in PSP).
Duplicate this layer and use negative to get them white.
So you have 3 layers - 1) Original in black, 2) Duplicate blurred, 3) Duplicate of the duplicate as a negative image.
Select the appropriate areas on each duplicated layer and move them 1 pixel diagonally.
When opacity is right you can just about see the center of the rivet, but you have the slight shadow and highlight either side.
If you look at my VIII here -
http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177203
You can just about see the rivets from that distance, but they can be seen (reasonbly) from the cockpit.
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Salute Kev,
Great tips sir! I will use it on the panel lines and control surfaces tonight (we seem to have posted at same time.)
I thought the 17 was looking pretty darn good...then I saw that Spit. Damn! Should I just scrap mine now? :confused:
Outstanding!
ReDhAwK
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Originally posted by Lord ReDhAwK
Salute Kev,
Great tips sir! I will use it on the panel lines and control surfaces tonight (we seem to have posted at same time.)
I thought the 17 was looking pretty darn good...then I saw that Spit. Damn! Should I just scrap mine now? :confused:
Outstanding!
ReDhAwK
Lol thanks, you should see some of my early ones, looked good at the time.
I look at them now and EEEEKKKKK.
E.g rivets file (only top wing B17, not got any further, sorry)
http://www.cyberonic.com/~kreed/rivets.zip (http://www.cyberonic.com/~kreed/rivets.zip)
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Beautiful bird! Looks absolutely fantastic to me. :)
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Originally posted by United
Beautiful bird! Looks absolutely fantastic to me. :)
Where the heck have you been United? Bout time you showed up again :)
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One thing I see, the panel lines on the cowling flaps are waaay too wide. I mean the flaps are too wide. They're more like P47 flaps (almost square). Maybe take your panel lines for those engine cowling flaps and just put an extra one in between every two? (Cut each one in half?)
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That is one fine looking skin ReDhAwK, done yourself proud :aok
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about the exhaust on the tops of the wings that everyone screws up 100% of the time...
those 4 vents behind each engine are recessed and should be more normal camo color...
the streaks go between the vents not out from them.
look at the default skin it is correct in this regard...
want to get even more accurate with it? displace the exhaust to the left a little tiny bit on both engies on the left wing and the left on both engines on the right wing to account for the slipstream of the props.
so said another way the streaks and discoloring etc streams back from the nacels over the wing and once it gets to the vents theres a triangle below each 4 holed vent that is recessed and dosnt collect grime the way the rest of the wing behind the engine does.
look closer at what you see dont just assume its a certain way because everyone else did it that way because everyone else in this case did it wrong ;)
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Salute Gents,
Thanky Lord Kazaa and Ur Unitedness. This has definately been a group project. Not a single comment left that has not been helpful :D
Added:
o additional panel lines on cowling flaps per Krusty.
o recessed vents on wings per Fester.
o more dirt and grime overall airframe
o played with smoke streaking behind the vents on wings between vents and rear edge.
o made (vent vacume?) where smoke would hit it (IMO) from maneuvering and environment. Weathered area.
o exhaust displacement per Fester
o fed monkey in navigator seat (it drank all my beer) :cry
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr10.jpg)
I feel it being closer now. That "thing" I just couldn't place my finger on that was driving me nuts was definately the vents Fester. I'm muuuch happier with her now :aok
I have been putting together the text files that will accompany her. Material file generously provided by Kev. Working on the naming convention for the text box. I know it will be 214BS. However, what would be the complete naming convention for her? I have this right now:
HB817/214BS by ReDhAwK
I believe that I will place the url for this entire thread in the info.txt file per the conversation Skuzzy started in the Forum about the new submitting protocol he would like to use, (i.e. posted in the Skinners Forum first for higher priority.) I will also place the 214 Website in there as that is where we got the historic shots from.
I can't begin to thank each of the participants enough for all the help you have provided. I hope to do the same in the future for others.
Check her out and let me know of any corrections or ideas.
ReDhAwK
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I have an idear-
Get rid of the navigator monkey and get a copilot orangutang! Despite the size, they are lightweights when it comes to beer, so he'll never drink all of it. :D
Anyhoo, the skin look great! I cant wait to see that in the game. :aok
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lol. Thx man :)
ReDhAwK
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According to the real pic Kev posted, I think the roundels are still a little too large. It seems to me that the Lanc posted has larger roundels than the B-17 photo. Although, it could just be my eyes. :)
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Rgr United.
Can somebody verify this. If too large, how much (percentage wise) do you feel they should be reduced?
ReDhAwK
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Since it was pointed out, went back and looked at the photo-
(http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/aircraft/images/1944/1944-p016747-B-Fortress-III.jpg)
Compared to yours-
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr7.jpg)
Theres definitely a size difference, I'd say about 1/4 to 1/3 too big.
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You guys are absolutely correct. Not only are they smaller on the 17 period pic, they are centered on the wing, rather than forward sitting.
GREAT CATCH United! Thnky sir. I will correct it.
ReDhAwK
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I think you have the trailing edge of the roundel in the right place, just shrink it down with that spot anchored.
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Hows this gents?
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr11.jpg)
ReDhAwK
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Shrink it to where the trailing edge is in the same place, but the leading edge of the roundel is behind the de-icing boot. :)
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Alrighty then. Roundals shrunk to what I believe to be the de-icing boot :)
Thanks for the direction sir. Let me know if this isnt the correct placement.
(http://www.revivecomputing.com/b17gscr12.jpg)
ReDhAwK :)
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OUTSTANDING! :aok :cool:
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EDIT: NEver mind, I misread what "under" meant :P
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I was using the line for where it would be as a reference.
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Alrighty gents. Skin submitted!
Mucho thanks to all involved in helping me get her fine tuned. I appreciate everything you did :aok
ReDhAwK
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Lovely plane and 3D model, indeed :aok
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Very nice skin redhawk, look forward to seeing it online. :aok
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even though im just a nobody. great work on that skin. looking forward to it. and as an AH player i appreciate all you skin guys time spent making the kicka** skins we got.
wish i had the skills to make those in photoshop.
Toadflak