Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on April 30, 2006, 11:12:09 AM
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I've got a great film I took today. Knights were fighting Bish over by some field in the middle. Knights end up winning, vulch the field for a bit (while leaving the ack up, brainiacs), basically kill the fight.
Anyway, the next field over starts showing a bar, so I fly over there. I notice a couple dots, figure I'll film the encounter.
I end up capturing a perfect example of the retardedness of the MA.
I'll need a host, but I'll explain the film to you.
Spit 16 and a Niki, start off higher but presumably slower than me (field was elevated). Both come down to make lazy halfass passes. Both break off their passes when I turn. Then they kind of make a couple more halfass passes, always breaking off as soon as I stop flying straight and level. Another plane comes, a 109. He also comes boring in for a pass, and ALSO breaks off when I manuever.
I think at this point I just get bored, and decide to joust with the Niki (I might have dodged a couple more halfass bore n zoom passes, I'm not sure).
Predictably, the niki holds the trigger down and flies straight at me.
Why on EARTH do people do that? They are so afraid to fight that they'll break off a bore n zoom pass if the target so much as breaks, but in a joust they just flip down the visor and hold the trigger down.
That has GOT to be the most retarded logic I've ever had the pleasure to witness. Why on earth would you casually accept a 50% chance of getting blown up or crippled, when you won't even press an attack on a moving target.
So why do people do it?
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welcome to dweebs low
the whole game has completely deteriorated over the last year and a bit, skill wise. just hotards and timid dweebs now:(
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Nah, it used to happen before then too, I quit ~ a year ago because the timidity was overwhelming and had sucked all the fun out of the game.
I may have even posted about this exact same behaviour before, I'm to lazy to look.
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Why on EARTH do people do that? They are so afraid to fight that they'll break off a bore n zoom pass if the target so much as breaks, but in a joust they just flip down the visor and hold the trigger down
The MA is nothing more than an ARCADE ARENA any more.If you want some good fighting action then spend more time in the AvA, and before you say" well there's never anyone in there" you should spend some time in the arena, eventually someone will show up and fight with you.
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ya this isnt new.. this is usually when i just sit in tower taking ships and writing my name.. or see if one of my buddies is in a furball so i can .join and kill em :D
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ahhh, it just drives me mad lol. perhaps it's due to the fact that 1 1/2 years ago i was a total noob, so i considered these guys good, and now that i've learned how to play properly, i see the same skill level differently, but man, it's so boring
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What are you flying urchin a spit? Why in the world would a mack truck try to dogfight a ferrarri unless your just plain stupid are really good. A p- 47 or p-38's advantage is speed, vertical performance why would i just blow my advantage to try to kill you on your terms? No i'm gonna make you follow me get you frustrated blow your energy and keep my advantage and kill you easy as i can. In a 109 or another spit hell yea i'd say dogfight all day. I don't think in ww2 actual pilots were told to dogfight a plane that had the advantage over them in a particular area unless they liked the taste of bullets in their mouth. I'd say if you've got it like that, by all means fight Mike Tyson if your a midget, otherwise kick him in the knees and break his legs to try to leverage his unfair advantage.
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Originally posted by LEDPIG
What are you flying urchin a spit? Why in the world would a mack truck try to dogfight a ferrarri unless your just plain stupid are really good. A p- 47 or p-38's advantage is speed, vertical performance why would i just blow my advantage to try to kill you on your terms? No i'm gonna make you follow me get you frustrated blow your energy and keep my advantage and kill you easy as i can. In a 109 or another spit hell yea i'd say dogfight all day. I don't think in ww2 actual pilots were told to dogfight a plane that had the advantage over them in a particular area unless they liked the taste of bullets in their mouth. I'd say if you've got it like that, by all means fight Mike Tyson if your a midget, otherwise kick him in the knees and break his legs to try to leverage his unfair advantage.
precisely the attitude that we're talking about. this game has become about kills and score to loads of people, when it's actually about aerial combat.
decent pilots dont keep loads of e, they dump all of theirs, making it harder, more fun, and more funny when you own the guy.
this game isnt about getting easy kills mate, that's just sad, this game is about the thrill of the fight:aok
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A couple of things I'd like to say; from the average guy's perspective, instead of the vet's.
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Personally, I don't mind the "halfass passes" part. As an average pilot myself, I know how other average pilots feel about this.
Pilots like us are in between the 'total n00b' and the 'seasoned vet' stage - and like with many other things in the world, normal people like us know that the odds are we probably won't ever be able to become as good as some of those vets in the game, no matter how long we play, or how hard we try.
Therefore, we are fully sensitive about the dangers of committing to a fight, and since we don't have any fantasies of our own skill level we will often choose to play it safe. Being average doesn't necessarily mean being inexperienced, and with a few passes we can easily sense if the guy we're attacking is a potentially dangerous prey or not.
Some vets will say that with an attitude like that, we won't ever become better in the game. It may be true, but frankly, that's none of their business in the first place. Nobody interferes in how the vets fly their planes, so why should they interfere in how us average guys fly our planes? If somebody flying 'timid' is boring, then one can simply disengage, come at co-E or higher alt, and be the one on the offensive, instead of playing the 'halfass dodgeball'.
I mean, us halfasses weren't exactly the ones who forced the vets to fly (often) inferior grade planes at lower altitudes than us.
We know what vets like - they love reversing situation in their low-flying, inferior planes. Shooting us down in their low-flying, inferior planes will makes them feel superior(which they probably are anyway). From the vet's perspective, us average guys of AH are supposed to be cannon fodder. We're supposed to go down like that. If AH was a Top-Gun movie, the vets think themselves as Tom Cruise in his F-14, and we average guys are supposed to be like the middle Eastern bad-guy pilots who get ass-wooped everytime. And when we refuse to oblige to that, then the vets start getting mad at us.
We're supposed to attack superior enemy pilots in a rash manner, engaging in a 1:1 duel, and then dumbfoundedly get reversed, and get shot down miserably. If we actually choose to fly in a way which ensures our own survival, and perhaps grant a certain chance of victory as well (flying with alt.. flying with friends.. etc etc..), then they start calling us names.
Hey, if you don't like us timid halfasses, then get a better plane and fly higher so we can't play timid like that. As I said, we aren't the ones who forced you guys to fly lower than us, in a mid-war plane. Sorry if we refuse to become one of your kills in a 10 kill sortie, but we aren't the extras in this movie.
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That being said,
...a true half-ass average would never do a lame HO like described in the latter part of Urchin's post. Like I said, we're average and skill-less, but that doesn't mean we're inexperienced. We weigh our chances of survival carefully and timidly, and we believe that if we can survive long enough, we can at least get a chance to gang-up on someone else and actually get a kill. However, just doing lazy BnZ passes and then HOing someone at the first chance is simply being stupid, taking unnecessary risks. Therefore, the guys that Urchin met are dweebs, and they are not "true-blue" halfass averagers.
So in the future, please take care you vets notice the difference between us averagers and dweebs. We may piss you off the same, but we're actually very different. :D
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Urchin what were you flying?
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Kweassa, sadly every one of the timid pilots I've run across except maybe 1 or two will go for the ho/ram, yet run away short of me doing anything except blatantly giving them my 6. I have to do this the majority of the time in the MA just to get anyone to engage me. It's really sad.
Urchin, I have no idea why they do it. It perplexes me as well. Makes zero sense at all, yet almost all of them seem to do it.
:huh
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I'd have to agree with several key points that Kweassa made. And I'd have to disagree with Pooface.
You basically want everybody to drop everything, blow every advantage, and stall-fight you (in your spit) in a turn fight. Expecting that is silly, to say the least. I think most folks feel this way because the better turn fighters are usually the slower aircraft, so they can't reverse on fast moving fighters like the p51 or typhoon, and they can't chase them, can't catch them. So they can turn, and all they want is for the enemy to turn.
But what if the enemy won't turn? Whip out the "Big book O' Names" and tune to ch. 200, let the name-throwing commence.
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precisely the attitude that we're talking about. this game has become about kills and score to loads of people, when it's actually about aerial combat.
It's about whatever your $15 says it's about for you. Who cares how someone flies & dies, if it matters to you, go find a different fight. I'm a terrible pilot but I enjoy getting low & slow in a Hurri-2C & dying. I myself like to win....I hate to lose; but because of how pitiful I am at ACM I have gotten used to it.
The so called vets won't admit it, but they are as score conscious as the "score potatos" because they like to win, if you didn't like to win, you wouldn't care. I get aggravated when I get HO'd over & over....because I can't win a HO...if I could it wouldn't bother me:lol It boils down to winning is fun & losing sucks.....if you're so skilled that no one can challenge your mad skills & you win without fail thus making you bored with the skill-less dweeb noobs, then the HO isn't going to get you anyway. My god,....you can't use the strengths of your plane or your a run dweeb or a cherry picker or a skill-less tard for trying to turn with a better pilot etc.....give it a rest people or take yourselves a break.:aok The good can't be as good as they claim or there would be a whole lot less crying about stuff in here; because winners don't complain...only us losers.
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Originally posted by Max
Urchin what were you flying?
I was in a Spit this sortie, but I've noticed it in other planes.
I actually had one El gay follow me around for about 15 minutes when I was in a 190A8, doing that lame crap. He'd make a pass, break off if I moved, run away, come back a little bit later.
Eventually I just let him get 400 yards off my 6 without moving, then broke when he started firing. He missed the shot, tried to follow me around, then tried to run when he realized he was actually in a fight. He got to about 600 yards away before I managed to S&P his wing off.
Then he logged off, guess he didn't want to get called out of Ch 200, since that was the only time I have tuned to it since I came back (to taunt his worthless sissy ass).
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'd have to agree with several key points that Kweassa made. And I'd have to disagree with Pooface.
You basically want everybody to drop everything, blow every advantage, and stall-fight you (in your spit) in a turn fight. Expecting that is silly, to say the least. I think most folks feel this way because the better turn fighters are usually the slower aircraft, so they can't reverse on fast moving fighters like the p51 or typhoon, and they can't chase them, can't catch them. So they can turn, and all they want is for the enemy to turn.
But what if the enemy won't turn? Whip out the "Big book O' Names" and tune to ch. 200, let the name-throwing commence.
No Krusty, I'd agree with you if I exclusively flew the Spit. I get timid horde pilots in *every* kind of plane doing the timid halfass stuff while waiting for friends to show up and help. I can be a 109/190 and I'll get a couple Spit 16s above me circling, waiting for more - because they are to timid to mix it up with a plane that is much less manueverable than theirs. It is disgusting, as far as I'm concerned.
I just want to fight, I'll fight anyone in anything as long as it is fun. I think I've died maybe 2 or 3 times one on one this tour, and all of them were knife fighting more manueverable planes than the one I was flying. Why? Because I enjoy it, it is fun.
Dodging X timid sissies in whatever plane I happen to be flying is *not* fun. And 99% of the timid sissies will lower the lance and flip down the visor if you offer them a joust... which is completely incomprehensible to me. It makes no sense at all.
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Urchin, I, too, get timid enemies, however I was more thinking of the phenomenon of calling people out for "not dying properly" than I guess I was to "encountering timid pilots" phenomenon.
No offense meant toward you specifically.
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I think a lot has to do with exsperiance.If ya been playin this stuff any length of time you have learned what to do.You can sit back critique and say that was stupid,that was lame,why did he do that.You can say that stuff because you prolly know the form by now.A lot of people float in and out of these sims and do not develope the skills they need to pull off anything fancy.They just dont know any better.I remember when I first started I didnt know how to do anything either.I did the same stupid sh-t.Some people never get it.Is it theyre fault?Prolly not.
"A bandit at your six is better than no bandit at all"
Pipz
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Trying to embarass someone on Ch. 200 is a good idea.
Complaining about it on the BBS is a good idea.
Inviting a new guy to the TA to improve his ACM is a good idea.
HONK!
Gooss
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as i read Urchins opening comment, He did not complain about getting killed/losing, He complained about how timid the 3-4 opposing cons around him flew. He didn't mention having any countrymen around, so it sounds like there was at least 3 cons around him and not one would engage in actual ariel combat. Not even at 3on1.
For someone who plays for the aerial combat, nd not to win or lose, situations like this, prove the gme to be useless for his needs. I agree with Urchin on this one.
I'm really glad to read these threads, for some reason I had been considering a comeback. I will likely load the game on my new Tower, and give it one month to see if the MA will provide me with the entertainment I seek.
If not I will learn to host MY FIGHT, in H2H. Where I can make MY RULES, and enforce them MY WAY, for free. After all, it only takes 3-4 planes to have a GREAT FIGHT, and H2H allows for 8!
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i really hate the jiggly jogely pilots that wont hold still when i try to shoot them down. they wiggle all over the place, how am i supposed to get any kills if they fly that way?
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Originally posted by LEDPIG
What are you flying urchin a spit? Why in the world would a mack truck try to dogfight a ferrarri unless your just plain stupid are really good. A p- 47 or p-38's advantage is speed, vertical performance why would i just blow my advantage to try to kill you on your terms? No i'm gonna make you follow me get you frustrated blow your energy and keep my advantage and kill you easy as i can. In a 109 or another spit hell yea i'd say dogfight all day. I don't think in ww2 actual pilots were told to dogfight a plane that had the advantage over them in a particular area unless they liked the taste of bullets in their mouth. I'd say if you've got it like that, by all means fight Mike Tyson if your a midget, otherwise kick him in the knees and break his legs to try to leverage his unfair advantage.
I'm saying apply actual ww2 tactics to get an idea about how these planes would have been flown in real life. Though it is fun to blow everything and fly around fat, dumb and happy and just kill stuff and be killed oh well.
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I have no problem with "patient" BnZ pilots making a few passes before they actually go for the shot. The only ones I hate are those that will come down in a tiffy 500 mph, miss and run out of the sector before comming back.
A pilot staying above faking passes and taking his time is boring, but perfectly legit. It his money and his game, he may choose how to die. Urchin eventually did the right thing - gave him his 6 and offered a fight from a big disadvantage. Not suprisingly he killed the other guy anyway.
That's the trade off one has to accept: you want to make them fight? give up all advantage, fly a "tempting" target like a mossie or a P47 or a P38 and watch them come down to fight. If they actually give a fight, congratulate them to encourage future fighting.
But don't tell them what to do.
Bozon
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Originally posted by Urchin
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That has GOT to be the most retarded logic I've ever had the pleasure to witness. Why on earth would you casually accept a 50% chance of getting blown up or crippled, when you won't even press an attack on a moving target.
So why do people do it?
Simple ... and I've yammered about it for years ... because the HO shot is their best odds of getting a kill. Even if they stand a 50-50 chance of dying themselves. If they don't HO, they know their odds of scoring a kill drop dramatically, and their odds of getting shot down likewise increase well above 50%.
Consider that with the HO as it is in AH (a) you gain the ballistic advantage of the enemy plane flying into your shot, (b) you can line your shot up a mile out thanks to Neon range info, and (c) the enemy plane is more likely to follow a predictable flight path that you can aim your HO shot at. Short of saddling up on a C47 with the pilot AFK it's the highest percentage shot you'll get.
Consider that a typical HO has a closure rate of at least 500 mph ... that's over 700 fps. So in one second that enemy plane when from being a blur 2 football fields away to being past you. And you're gonna aim at that and hit with any kind of accuracy?
Anyway ... that's why, Urchin.
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Originally posted by Stang
Kweassa, sadly every one of the timid pilots I've run across except maybe 1 or two will go for the ho/ram, yet run away short of me doing anything except blatantly giving them my 6. I have to do this the majority of the time in the MA just to get anyone to engage me. It's really sad.
Urchin, I have no idea why they do it. It perplexes me as well. Makes zero sense at all, yet almost all of them seem to do it.
:huh
99% of my fight are like this. have to give them my 6 on a plate just to get them to come down and get within 1k of me. then i just reverse on them with a simple slow barrel roll, and then they run, and i have to do it again, usually 5 times a fight to drag their e down low enough to get a shot window.
just gets boring after a while. i get plenty o kills in the MA but it bores me to death, because that's all it's become a place where numbers make the podium instead of actual skill. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Urchin
I've got a great film I took today. Knights were fighting Bish over by some field in the middle. Knights end up winning, vulch the field for a bit (while leaving the ack up, brainiacs), basically kill the fight.
Anyway, the next field over starts showing a bar, so I fly over there. I notice a couple dots, figure I'll film the encounter.
I end up capturing a perfect example of the retardedness of the MA.
I'll need a host, but I'll explain the film to you.
Spit 16 and a Niki, start off higher but presumably slower than me (field was elevated). Both come down to make lazy halfass passes. Both break off their passes when I turn. Then they kind of make a couple more halfass passes, always breaking off as soon as I stop flying straight and level. Another plane comes, a 109. He also comes boring in for a pass, and ALSO breaks off when I manuever.
I think at this point I just get bored, and decide to joust with the Niki (I might have dodged a couple more halfass bore n zoom passes, I'm not sure).
Predictably, the niki holds the trigger down and flies straight at me.
Why on EARTH do people do that? They are so afraid to fight that they'll break off a bore n zoom pass if the target so much as breaks, but in a joust they just flip down the visor and hold the trigger down.
That has GOT to be the most retarded logic I've ever had the pleasure to witness. Why on earth would you casually accept a 50% chance of getting blown up or crippled, when you won't even press an attack on a moving target.
So why do people do it?
They rather lose a fight by chance (HO) then lose a knife edge dogfight by being PWN-ed by somebody.
Now that wasn't hard to figure out was it? Its an ego thing. :cry
The catch is that they'll never become a good pilot if they don't engage in a dogfight and take that chance and even lose allot in the first place ;)
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Originally posted by Apar
They rather lose a fight by chance (HO) then lose a knife edge dogfight by being PWN-ed by somebody.
Now that wasn't hard to figure out was it? Its an ego thing. :cry
The catch is that they'll never become a good pilot if they don't engage in a dogfight and take that chance and even lose allot in the first place ;)
yeah, it's odd, they want to be good, but arent prepared to learn:rolleyes:
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Ya this reminds me of the time i saw an old lady helping carson palmer cross the road.. :noid
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Sounds like you ran into some decent pilots and maybe a ho'er...would have to see the film to decide....
Sounds like you consider yourself a good knifefiter and wanted then to play your game...and they didnt...
Newbs reading this board should do exactly what these guys did to you...learn from this...bored vets like being slow and hving someone with e drop in on them..cut throttle and try to outturn them....that is a mistake...you will die and these posts will stop....
If you have e advantage on a slow plane do not try to outturn them....make passes and figure out your angles...go vertical as much as you can...
The reason i said maybe a ho'er is if you are a good turner he may have thought he had a six shot from 1k out and by the time he got to 400 you had flipped your nose around....
This is not the DA. Get some wingies. I remember a base you were fiting at about a week ago...you were low and slow and popped one of my squaddies...you could have gotten some speed up by the time i got over there but you were still on the deck and trying to pull me and pops949 in.
We sliced and diced you til you died. you then came back at about 8k and stayed there over your base. I thought that was smart of you...since we were lower we stayed on the cap and you picked some guys off...again i think that is smart...
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Most of the kids in todays world haven't had to work for or at anything in their lives. Especially the ones who have computers, Why would they start now?
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One other thing....knits/rooks HO like mad..i assume Bish do as well...
While i dont care for it...(i think i have a better then 50% chanceof killing someone)...i have accepted the fact that in multiplane situations i have too as well. Listening to ch200 seems most pilots admit that in busy situations "they do what they have to" to stay alive...
So i doubt that holding the trigger was anything but a guy figuring tactics is tactics and wanting you dead quickly so they could kill some more...
Again pls feel free to post the film...:aok
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one thing that kills the game...
Score.
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i constantly have to think of new ways to have fun in the game...i do like gv's so that helps..my dogfighting skills have completely gone to crap due to my own lack of interest in fighting 10 on one anymore...and as said earlier its a ho or a run with most ma pilots in one on ones..this is just the way it is, not anyones's fault i guess but it doesnt change the facts the alot of vets are just bored with it...you have to understand that this is not the gameplay that most vets are used to..this type of timidness would get you called out quick a few years ago, there are just too many players now
i was on a few days ago wingin with 2 squaddies and let one of them fight a con alone without interference, as well as told everyone else to please stay out..the same guy brought 8 wingmen back and promptly ganged the crap outta me with bnz cannon planes after i tried to engage him alone..its two different styles of play i guess :confused:
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
One other thing....knits/rooks HO like mad..i assume Bish do as well...
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Bish HO as much as anyone, they just have worse aim.
I don't think Urchin (and, yes, he is a damn good dogfighter) was going on a BnZ v. TnB rant so much as being puzzled at the logic of accepting a HO joust with a 50-50 chance of dying but running away from an engagement which showed any sign of fighting back.
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its two different styles of play i guess
you said a mouth-full right there.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
i constantly have to think of new ways to have fun in the game..
its two different styles of play i guess :confused:
Yeah. I think part of it is just the size of the community. When the game was "smaller" there was more peer pressure in terms of style of play. Now with all the zip-code playerID's and all ... well ... it is what it is.
And the whole "timid flyer" thing is subjective anyway. If you're in a 190 or P47, hey, BnZ is what you chose to do when you chose that plane. So I don't have a problem with people using the planes as they were intended.
The thing that keeps me around is that there are so many things to do. And so many friends in the game, some of whom I've known over a decade.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Then he logged off, guess he didn't want to get called out of Ch 200, since that was the only time I have tuned to it since I came back (to taunt his worthless sissy ass).
This last line is why you, Chi and all others like you are actually the horse's rear. This is your fragile ego, crying "look at me, I'm great!", and wanting to rub someone's nose in it, thus making you a sad pathetic excuse for a human being and a damn poor waste of protoplasm.
I have never seen anywhere, online or in the real world, so many people who love to taunt, ridicule, belittle, and foster anger in others than I find here. I keep hoping that I find out most these types are foreigners playing the game, cause fairplay, respect and honor just can't be missing that badly from Americans.
"Children behave!"
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I keep hoping that I find out most these types are foreigners playing the game, cause fairplay, respect and honor just can't be missing that badly from Americans.
I didn't know there are foreigners on the internet :confused:
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Anything is fair to me, kill me how you have to, do what you want, they are all tactics. I do enjoy the straight dogfight i also enjoy guys that fly smart and wear me down. I don't think theres an actual fighter pilot that would complain about how they kill are how they got killed the only thing thats important is to just kill. Be ruthless be aggressive be smart use your advantage over mine, if your in a bnz plane don't dogfight me in a spit that would be stupid on your part to think your going to come down blow your e and outmaneaver me in a plane that weighs 8 tons more. At some time though after you've boomed and zoomed your going to have to blow some e to get a shot and thats when it gets fun. I fly the P-38 alot and generally i keep speed above 300knts and slash into the fight until i have a shot then i'll come down and blow some e to kill, but i try not to go round and round the merry go round with a spit or something and play his game. However if i'm in a 109 i will go round and round because the two planes are more equal and it's more fun. But i have learned one thing in this game being new, if you want to learn go down and get killed in the mellee in your big fat airplane i think the best pilots can have a chance against the smaller planes no matter what there flying and think they got killed ALOT to do it. Once you do that then you've learned and YOU become a weapon.
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Originally posted by Sloehand
This last line is why you, Chi and all others like you are actually the horse's rear. This is your fragile ego, crying "look at me, I'm great!", and wanting to rub someone's nose in it, thus making you a sad pathetic excuse for a human being and a damn poor waste of protoplasm.
I have never seen anywhere, online or in the real world, so many people who love to taunt, ridicule, belittle, and foster anger in others than I find here. I keep hoping that I find out most these types are foreigners playing the game, cause fairplay, respect and honor just can't be missing that badly from Americans.
"Children behave!"
You are welcome to your opinion, but it is my opinion that "fairplay, respect, and honor" is sadly lacking in the vast majority of gamers in the MA. In fact, compared to the folks who's typical method of fighting is commonly displayed at Renaissance Fairs everywhere I think I'm a veritable knight in shining armor.
I get frustrated just like everyone else, and one of the things that frustrates me the most is seeing someone who is in a plane that is superior in every single way to the one I'm in refuse to fight at all. Not E-fighting, not angles fighting, not doing much except making lazy halfass bore n zoom passes while screaming for more people to show up and come help him (presumably).
I personally don't think I've got much of an ego.. and I know for sure it isn't fragile, so the projection is an inaccurate one.
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In regards to Kweassas post, newbs, vets, and being good at anything.
Getting good at anything means that basicly you are going to have to make some mistakes. In this game, mistakes usually end with death. The way I always looked at it was, you're NOT REALLY DYING. So if you do "DIE" in your plane, think about what it was that got you dead, and try to fix it. There is always something to take away from every fight, or things. Lessons in AH are only learned through making mistakes and getting blown out of the sky.
To put it at bluntly as humanly possible, if you are going to fly like a panzy, never die, and always be afraid to commit to a fight that you might die in, then you WILL NEVER GET BETTER.
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Originally posted by Urchin
one of the things that frustrates me the most is seeing someone who is in a plane that is superior in every single way to the one I'm in refuse to fight at all.
maybe they feel sorry for you flying such a poor plane and don't want to take advantage of your poor choice. maybe they want a "fair fight"
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The interesting thing is, if there were three planes and they actively pursued an aggressive BnZ, everyone would be having a blast, Urchin probably would have bit the bullet eventually, thus one of the BnZers would get that nice toasty feeling of a kill and at least Urchin would have had a fun challenge.
Would someone please post a film redeeming BnZers???? There IS a way to do it that doesn't come off half assed and everyone (including victim) has to put down the beer and try a little. This usually results in fun for everyone...
And as to the original question... No, it makes absolutely no sense in my mind to be afraid of screwing up a barrel roll etc. only to accept 50% odds for a HO a few minutes later. None at all. I don't get it. You're always better off screwing up behind the plane then rolling the die in front of it.
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Originally posted by Urchin
You are welcome to your opinion, but it is my opinion that "fairplay, respect, and honor" is sadly lacking in the vast majority of gamers in the MA. In fact, compared to the folks who's typical method of fighting is commonly displayed at Renaissance Fairs everywhere I think I'm a veritable knight in shining armor.
I get frustrated just like everyone else, and one of the things that frustrates me the most is seeing someone who is in a plane that is superior in every single way to the one I'm in refuse to fight at all. Not E-fighting, not angles fighting, not doing much except making lazy halfass bore n zoom passes while screaming for more people to show up and come help him (presumably).
I personally don't think I've got much of an ego.. and I know for sure it isn't fragile, so the projection is an inaccurate one.
Spot on.
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The BnZing isn't so bad, annoying but it is a flying style I guess. But like everyone else has said, it's when the guy takes 15 mins and then finally will just HO you. Seems like a waste of time when he could have done that within the 1st few minutes and saved us both the time.
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Less than half the players can maintain a 0.5 k:d... 50/50 shot on average is an improvement.
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urch, you'll find that there's a certain art to getting these idiots to actually fight you in AH nowadays... like stang said, you basically have to give them your 6. and never in a spit... if you want to fly something twisty-turny, take an 84, since these twits don't seem to realize that an 84 can hang with a spit/niki. But you're (were?) a 109 stick, so just fly K4's around low and blow the idiots up as they fly by.
AH pretty much sucks now...
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Originally posted by wetrat
so just fly K4's around low and blow the idiots up as they fly by.
:aok
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I have never seen anywhere, online or in the real world, so many people who love to taunt, ridicule, belittle, and foster anger in others than I find here.
I tuned out channel 200 today at about 4pm, so if i don't answer you, friend or foe now you know why. i guess the .s command will have to do.
I'm recovering from hand surgery. If anyone is familiar with the saitek x52, its what i use. My left hand is completely bandaged up, and in a half-cast up to mid-forearm, and only my thumb is sticking out. I use the little slider for throttle and that little blue button next to it for squad vox.
I'm on heavy painkillers and aniti-biotics, and they make me a bit edgy.
This game is alot of fun, but it is also very competitive. So if 5 yahoo's want to try and BnZ me to death than so be it, but i'll TRY to take out 1 or 2 with me before i go. I just can't deal with the "nice ho.. or nice ram" comments anymore. I just want to fly and have fun.
You know what would have happened as soon as one of those guys committed to a turn fight urchin? One of his buddies would have come down to pick you. It's just the way it is when your outnumbered, on all 3 countries.
And to the guy that accused me of stealing his two precious kills, which i didn't.
:lol
I just checked out your score. seems like you were trying to steal them from me.
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Originally posted by Sloehand
This last line is why you, Chi and all others like you are actually the horse's rear. This is your fragile ego, crying "look at me, I'm great!", and wanting to rub someone's nose in it, thus making you a sad pathetic excuse for a human being and a damn poor waste of protoplasm.
I have never seen anywhere, online or in the real world, so many people who love to taunt, ridicule, belittle, and foster anger in others than I find here. I keep hoping that I find out most these types are foreigners playing the game, cause fairplay, respect and honor just can't be missing that badly from Americans.
"Children behave!"
You have no clue who urchin is. I know this because he left before your newb bellybutton came on. I'm not deffending him, I just hate to see you newbs get out of hand.. He can do that on his own... But everything you've said pertaining to him is a load of assuming bull*****.
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In regards to Kweassas post, newbs, vets, and being good at anything.
Getting good at anything means that basicly you are going to have to make some mistakes. In this game, mistakes usually end with death. The way I always looked at it was, you're NOT REALLY DYING. So if you do "DIE" in your plane, think about what it was that got you dead, and try to fix it. There is always something to take away from every fight, or things. Lessons in AH are only learned through making mistakes and getting blown out of the sky.
To put it at bluntly as humanly possible, if you are going to fly like a panzy, never die, and always be afraid to commit to a fight that you might die in, then you WILL NEVER GET BETTER.
.. which, as I've already solidly laid out, is none of anyone's business.
We just do what's necessary for us in the immediate presence of superior enemy pilots. We sure as hell aren't gonna voluntarily help rack up someone else's score so they can teach us "a lesson in becoming better" by swatting us down like flies.
I'm really sorry, but none of us will go;
"Hey, there's a guy who seems like a pretty good pilot. He's flying low in a relatively inferior plane, so he must be pretty confident. Fighting him will be dangerous... but oh what the heck. I will go down there and fight him in a way which he enjoys, get reversed and shot down like in a turkey shoot, and still be all happy and smiles about it because I've learned a valuable lesson in maneuvering, and helped satisfy the vet's lust for easy kills. I feel that I've become much better in flying by pitting myself in a fight which I knew I couldn't win in the first place!"
Rather, since we're probably never gonna become a Leviathan or a Fester or a Drex anyway, we'd rather become "better" in the art of "pissing off hot-shot pilots by never giving them a chance to kill you, and scoring only small amount of kills safely and easily, instead of giving the superior pilot a chance in what he loves to do."
Ofcourse, being grossly average, even that kind of flying yields only a very modest score. But still, it's satisfying to us, since we fly the way how we see fit, not how someone else dictates so we can become 'lesson material' by being shot down.
How we fly is our call. The vets can comment all they want on how it's 'boring' and 'lame' and 'not helpful in getting any better', but none of that is gonna change how we fly. Call us pansies and scaredy-cats, but in the end, we're not the one's complaining or getting pissed off.
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Oh, I have no problem with being BnZ'd. That is fine, at least they are trying.
I mean, if I at least have to make someone miss, I'm convinced that they are really trying to kill me.
On the other hand, the folks that kinda halfway commit, but break off and zoom when you pull the "setup turn" (the gentle 2-3g turn you start when they are still 1.5k out, at least I do) to make em attack from an angle.. I always picture those folks as anxiously yelling for help... it kind of amuses and disgusts me, at the same time.
Its like, what can they be saying? "Ohmigod, come help me please! This guy 5k below me has really got me cornered!"
And the ones who won't commit to a BnZ pass but will gladly joust really confound me, although I expect that DoKs explanation is the right one. I honestly thought that the "average" would be around a 1/1 K/D... you have to figure for everybody that dies there is someone that killed em.
Booz, how did you arrive at the conclusion that less than half the MA population could get a K/D of over .5?
A .5 K/d means 1 kill for every two deaths, unless I'm sorely mistaken.
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I honestly thought that the "average" would be around a 1/1 K/D... you have to figure for everybody that dies there is someone that killed em.
As in real life, the distribution is un-even.
Look at the average salary in your country - most people make less than the average because the average is dominated by the few people with very high salaries. Same thing with the kill statistics in WWII or MA.
Bozon
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Originally posted by Kweassa
.. which, as I've already solidly laid out, is none of anyone's business.
We just do what's necessary for us in the immediate presence of superior enemy pilots. We sure as hell aren't gonna voluntarily help rack up someone else's score so they can teach us "a lesson in becoming better" by swatting us down like flies.
I'm really sorry, but none of us will go;
Rather, since we're probably never gonna become a Leviathan or a Fester or a Drex anyway, we'd rather become "better" in the art of "pissing off hot-shot pilots by never giving them a chance to kill you, and scoring only small amount of kills safely and easily, instead of giving the superior pilot a chance in what he loves to do."
Ofcourse, being grossly average, even that kind of flying yields only a very modest score. But still, it's satisfying to us, since we fly the way how we see fit, not how someone else dictates so we can become 'lesson material' by being shot down.
How we fly is our call. The vets can comment all they want on how it's 'boring' and 'lame' and 'not helpful in getting any better', but none of that is gonna change how we fly. Call us pansies and scaredy-cats, but in the end, we're not the one's complaining or getting pissed off.
Some are happy being mediocre, even if it is just a game. And that is ok. But you cannot say I'm wrong in that making mistakes and dying, and LEARNING from those mistakes, is the easiest and best way to learn. You can't tell me I'm wrong. It worked for me, and its worked for those of whome I've helped. Its worked for the players who I have watched grow and become better. Plain and simple... It works.
If you are so concerned about dying, score, and who's ego you're going to be fluffing by getting killed, then you aren't concerned with learning.
For me, and the rest of the guys who I fly with, and those who I help, or whome have helped me, it has always only ever been about working to get better. The ego's are left at the door.
I'm sorry, but you and I have a completely different take on this game when it comes to just about everything... Learning included. You refuse to learn by your mistakes... So you dont push anything. Fly around, do whatever you do, I dont know what... And that's it. If you dont push it... You, the plane, and the guy your fighting, you're never going to grow.
How do you think Drex, Levi and the rest got good? By simply logging in one day and... Presto... they were good? Yeah.
LIke I said, if you're going to worry about numbers, score, and ego(yours and everyone elses), forget it. You may as well just not play in my opinion.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Rather, since we're probably never gonna become a Leviathan or a Fester or a Drex anyway, we'd rather become "better" in the art of "pissing off hot-shot pilots by never giving them a chance to kill you, and scoring only small amount of kills safely and easily, instead of giving the superior pilot a chance in what he loves to do."
How would you know if the other guy was a hot-shot pilot if you don't engage?
Do you treat every enemy as a hot-shot pilot? Seriously, they don't have special icons that say "hot-shot". So, how would you determine this, because he actually attempts to engage you? ESP?
Besides, aren't you the guy that insists that the aircraft is the deciding factor as seen in your sigfile: "It's the machine, not the man".
So, if you're in the superior aircraft and are still afraid to engage, then you must be afraid of the "man" after all. That's what your post implies.
Why settle for being a piss-poor pilot? Come to the TA, work with a Trainer or one of the skilled volunteers (like Infensus, one of the best pilots in the game), build some skills and self-confidence. The only limiting factor is a lack of willingness to improve.
My regards,
Widewing
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What this always seems to boil down to is "I dont like dying a certain way "
Well here is my take...
I DON'T LIKE DYING AT ALL!!!!!!!!!
i dont like dying in a house
i dont like dying in a mouse
i dont like dying in a shoe
When i die I say a word like "poo"
yes i know it is a game
yes i know you think im lame
but when i kill you i feel good
probably cuz i get some wood
On 200 you will then type
How im just a big buttwipe
But i will giggle to myself
and kill a guy named akelf
the lesson then is pretty clear
i think you all are awful queer
for telling me how i should play
has really gone and made my day
@ falconwing 2006 1:05 am (i need sleep)
:lol :cry :lol :cry
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Originally posted by Kweassa
We just do what's necessary for us in the immediate presence of superior enemy pilots. We sure as hell aren't gonna voluntarily help rack up someone else's score so they can teach us "a lesson in becoming better" by swatting us down like flies.
Well, ya can only lead a horse to water... In your case you'd rather have a beer I guess. Just don't make the mistake that they're in this for score.
Rather, since we're probably never gonna become a Leviathan or a Fester or a Drex anyway
I just don't see why anyone would go through life/virtual life with this attitude, but that's just me. I don't mean to offend.
How we fly is our call. The vets can comment all they want on how it's 'boring' and 'lame' and 'not helpful in getting any better', but none of that is gonna change how we fly. Call us pansies and scaredy-cats, but in the end, we're not the one's complaining or getting pissed off.
Your coin, your call. But you have to realize that by not taking those lumps and not putting in that effort, you are only denying yourself more ways to have fun. It's kinda like some game where you get experience/upgrades/better stuff/whatever... You can still use the old tricks, or play the old way, you just have new tricks/ways to. The more you learn in this game (like life), the more possibilities you open up. Variety is the spice of life, no? :D
Kweassa, I don't mean any disrespect to you in anyway by this, but your whole post reads, to me, like the words of someone who has tried, failed, given up, and is trying to justify to themself why they shouldn't give it another shot.
If I were you, I'd give it another one. But, until I hit the lotto and feel like paying your subscription, just play however makes you happy :)
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Here's the key to all of this.
NO ONE REALLY DIES!
So live...er...die a little. So what if you get clobbered a 100 times engaging in a fight. Could be that 101st will be the fight you'll remember.
Planes are free, no one dies. Screw the scoreboard. Have some fun and die a little. You might just get better :)
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Aaaaaah Guppy you poor confused chap!!!
Read the last 2pages...they all care how they "don't" die!!! LMAO!!
Well mebbe they dont care how they "dont" die BUT they REALLY seem to care about how we "dont" kill them!!!! :rofl
No offense to urchin....im sure he is a fine stick...but there are tons of fine sticks in this game...very few post...
AND here is a wake up fricking call to the morons who put levi..fester..etc up on a pedestal and say we should be like them....
THEY (levi...fester etc) DONT PLAY ANYMORE!!!!!!! :rofl :rofl
mebbe the game becomes less exciting when you feel you can beat anyone 1v1 and still die because it is a game....mebbe what the 500+ mediocre to bad sticks who play each night are doing is (gasp) HAVING FUN!! and loving every moment of a great game!!! and THEY are still playing!!
all goofiness aside...lighten the hell up fellahs or cancel that account...come back when you can enjoy just looking around the game and be amazed at how awesome it is...how the graphics are superb and the number who can fit in an arena are breathtaking....
We all get ho'd ..ganged...vulched...but you wil never see me on ch200 whining about it...nor most decent sticks...i bet levi and those guys didnt either....
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Originally posted by Urchin
. I honestly thought that the "average" would be around a 1/1 K/D... you have to figure for everybody that dies there is someone that killed em.
Booz, how did you arrive at the conclusion that less than half the MA population could get a K/D of over .5?
A .5 K/d means 1 kill for every two deaths, unless I'm sorely mistaken.
Having done alot of statistical analysis, one thing you must consider is roughly 75% of the kills are scored by 25% of the people. That means the other 75% of the AH population that are only getting 25% of the kills are doing 75% of the dying on average (actually more dying than that as the top 25% pilots also die alot less per capita). So, the average pilot is nowhere near 1:1 K/D. It's more like you have 1 guy with a 5:1 K/D and 10 guys with a 0.50:1 K/D in reality, for example...
Zazen
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
Well here is my take...
I DON'T LIKE DYING AT ALL!!!!!!!!!
i
That's exactly how I feel as well. Killing is satisfying, very much so, but what is most satisfying is killing and getting away with it. After you have mastered the basic fundamentals of air to air combat, killing in and of itself becomes quite easy. Killing and getting away with it then becomes the more exhilerating pursuit. Anyone can not die, anyone can get kills, getting kills and not dieing in a timely manner is usually quite alot trickier, especially if you refuse to vulch...
Zazen
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Originally posted by Urchin
I personally don't think I've got much of an ego.. and I know for sure it isn't fragile, so the projection is an inaccurate one.
Sorry Urchin, I used this one spacious comment of yours to impose my own rant about how way too may people behave in the game. I really don't lump you in with the likes of Chi, however I thought that your previous ending comment was a bit pointed, so I automatically responded as I did.
I personally don't give a hoot how the enemy flies, be they lions or be they mice. The only activities I get upset about is people who maliciously, with malice of forethought, do their utmost to aggravate others, ruin everyone else's enjoyment of the game, and pass spurious judgement on "How The Game Should Be Played".
The truly sad part is that the anonymous nature of this online reality is like the tongue weakening effect of alcholol on some people. Their true and usually repressed, anti-social nature and behavior comes out. Sad, sad, pitiful people.
I do understand the occasional need to sucumb to an overwelming need to release pent up aggravation, which I suspect was all you were really refering to.
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I'm with you on that Kweasea your not obligated to do anything but pay taxes and die, if your not fighting how someone wants you to screw him, a lot of them want to jump on inferior pilots (like me ) and get us to dogfight them in the stupidest planes to do such a thing how they want us to fight them to get a kill. If i was flying a B-52 i wouldn't be in a hurry to dogfight some guy in a F-16 just cause he wants it how he wants it. Screw him:furious
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Originally posted by Urchin
Booz, how did you arrive at the conclusion that less than half the MA population could get a K/D of over .5?
A .5 K/d means 1 kill for every two deaths, unless I'm sorely mistaken.
I've always paid attention to it out of curiosity, you can fish through squad rank rosters. For instance a random guy I found has K/D=0.53488 ranked 2187 out of 4580+ players in KD+1 column.
Another is k/d=0.45455 rank=2424, still near the top of the bottom half
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I'm sorry, but you and I have a completely different take on this game when it comes to just about everything... Learning included. You refuse to learn by your mistakes... So you dont push anything. Fly around, do whatever you do, I dont know what... And that's it. If you dont push it... You, the plane, and the guy your fighting, you're never going to grow.
This stuff becomes tense only when some vet starts calling the other guy by names just because they refuse to "fly" or "learn" in the way they see fit. For example, your own attitude (or any other "vet's" for that matter) in this discussion disguises some clever 'concern' for the other guy - how you are worried that the other guy is "never going to grow".
Well, who in the world cares?
Again, other people rarely, if ever, question the attitude or flying styles of the vets. If it comes to the vets and their hugely successful scores and flying styles we also have some choice words to say according to our own observations on how the vets usually fly. However, we hardly say anything about, nor do we complain about it. They fly better, so they fly differently. We got no problems with that.
So likewise, keep your noses out of our butts. Whether we learn or not is none of anyone's business, nor did we ask anyone to 'care' about it. Whether we push our planes to the edge or not, whether we never 'grow' or not, just stay out of our business and there's no ruckus to start in the first place.
Only when some vet comes in these open forums and starts ranting about how none of the other guy flies the way he wants them to, does this 'problem' manifest. Soon all the other vets join in and start a collective tantrum of how everyone else in the game is all pansy and sissy except themselves.
Well, woop-dee-too. It's our non-growing pansy-ass, not yours.
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Do you treat every enemy as a hot-shot pilot? Seriously, they don't have special icons that say "hot-shot". So, how would you determine this, because he actually attempts to engage you? ESP?
Empirical evidence.
Say for example, you see a C.205 flying at mid-alts lower than your plane. The odds are, no 'n00b' is ever gonna fly a C.205 other than a very few guys who are trying the plane out. Try a few passes, and he will almost always display the most classic maneuvers that lead into certain overshoot situations. At that point, it becomes pretty clear what kind of pilot is flying the plane.
After being treated as cannon fodder for years, us average guys usually develop a knack for judging these kinda stuff upon the 'feel' alone.
Naturally, instead of "humbly learning our lessons", we'll just fly around timid, and wait for more of our own guys to gang up on him. He's in an Italian mid-war plane. He's not gonna run away from us. And then, we hit him like a pack of hyenas. Sure, we're only average, so even in that kind of fight a lot of us are probably going to get suckered and get shot down in the process.
However, one thing certain is we're not gonna give the C.205 an easy time in anything, nor will we ever give him the perfect fight he wants. We're either gonna bore him to death by running away when things aren't looking too good, or by gang-banging his rear end until he develops bloody hemorrages.
Besides, aren't you the guy that insists that the aircraft is the deciding factor as seen in your sigfile: "It's the machine, not the man".
So, if you're in the superior aircraft and are still afraid to engage, then you must be afraid of the "man" after all. That's what your post implies.
That's another story to tell.
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The whole point to this story is, the "ACM" and "vet" way of thinking aerial combat, is like "chivalry" in the medieval ages. There's no such thing in the first place - it's an empty ideal which only a very few of the few ever get to experience.
The rest of us, who constitute a very large and absolute proportion of the AH demographics, live in a different world of flying and fighting where none of the vet's fancy or reasonable ideas of skillful fighting exist. We don't necessarily care about the scores as much - like others have mentioned our K/D is barely over 1.0. However, score or no score, being shotdown by a classic sucker-punch hurts just the same, so we just try not to get shotdown, in our own way of flight where the rules of ACM don't apply, since most of us aren't good enough to understand the concept anyway.
If compared to real life, we're the guys who fly against people like Hartmann or Johnson or Gabreski. We're the runts and underlings who die out in their first week of the tour. We're the people who try vain things and get shot down in the process, and by dying, become training material for others who will become known as "aces". However, one big difference is that in AH, we don't stay dead. Some of us would eventually go over the edge and become one of the 'vets', but most of us will be in our own cycle of endless life and death in the virtual skies. It's where we live, and in this cycle, we have our own rule of ACM - "Average Combat Maneuvering".
Indeed, in our own big world, we never "grow" or "get better". However, incidentally we do happen to be the majority of the AH world, and it is the vets who should be getting used to us, not us who should bow down before the vet-almighty, heeding to his wise words, "Come play with me and get killed. You will learn something that way."[/b] I mean, if they really want others to learn, they can be the ones flying the role of the "target drone" and get shot down during the process. Why's it always have to be us who becomes the guinea-pigs in the vet demonstration of "how to sucker a fool"?
No thanks. We never complain about anything, so you should never complain about us.
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I SO agree with Kweassa on this!
I have been flying the game for 3.5 years. The whole point of my relatively little time in AH is to up a plane and shoot down other people (duh). But I always want to LAND the kills. Not because I like to see my name in the text buffer but because I think it is realistic to try to survive. I like it that way.
I admire the pilots who can wade in every furball and actually survive while shooting twice as many planes per hour than me.
Point is, I don't have the time, nor the desire to learn how to be as good as all the hotshot pilots and go into the DA with Widewing to get myself humiliated. That's no fun. Playing lone wolf, reading the flow of the battle and pick off people, that's fun for me You might disagree and call me timid, but I know I am not a top pilot. I have become a pretty good survivor and a good shot though. Much better than the dweebs Urchin is complaining about.
Sure, I like a good 1vs1 fight but these are rare in the MA. And I have flown AvA a lot when the BoB rolling planeset came out, but now (again) I can hardly find anyone to fight. Still I could maintain 2vs1 K/D in the Hurricane I.
I could rant some more but the point is, it's a game. If Urchin thinks the rest of the players should play as he sees fit, well, that's not realistic. It takes some nerve to fly towards the enemy at a clear disadvantage in E and numbers. I never do that because I'll die. However, I think I stand a pretty good chance of killing a good pilot when he is unwise enough to fight me with inferior E. That's good enough for me.
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Originally posted by hogenbor
Point is, I don't have the time, nor the desire to learn how to be as good as all the hotshot pilots and go into the DA with Widewing to get myself humiliated. That's no fun.
That wouldn't happen as I never train in the DA, and for exactly that reason. Getting shot down is something most people have plenty of experience with. Surviving a hit and continuing the fight uninterrupted is the advantage of the TA.
Trainers are not there to humiliate players. They are there to challenge, teach and encourage. The ultimate goal is to produce pilots who can beat the Trainers, and in that regard we will know that we've done our job.
My regards,
Widewing
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urchin's argument rings hollow to me. he doesn't want to fight he wants to complain. he was in the AvA last week once, dweebing around in pure easy mode in his spitV against FW190A5s, he and his teammmates owning both the alt and with equal number of friends v enemies. his friends were dispatched almost immediately and he was left all alone with three 190's. while he put a good fight (as one would expect in a dweebV) everyone stayed and turned with him. the one that went quickly into boreNsnore mode was urchin. after about three vertical passes he presented a nice tits down view I was able to draw lead and collected a nice beaver pelt. it wasn't too long before he returned to the relative safety of the MA.
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I did not mean to be rude Widewing, and I'm sure your desire to teach is genuine. I meant TA, not DA by the way. I get them mixed up easily because I never fly there. If you take this as proof that I don't take the game very seriously, you are absolutely right. I am happy with my current skill level and don't strive to be better. That I reserve for things that really matter to me.
I only get a bit frustrated every time a vet is complaining about all the clueless and skillless people he has the misfortune to meet. Everyone is free to play the game as he sees fit, als long as no abuse takes place.
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Originally posted by storch
urchin's argument rings hollow to me. he doesn't want to fight he wants to complain. he was in the AvA last week once, dweebing around in pure easy mode in his spitV against FW190A5s, he and his teammmates owning both the alt and with equal number of friends v enemies. his friends were dispatched almost immediately and he was left all alone with three 190's. while he put a good fight (as one would expect in a dweebV) everyone stayed and turned with him. the one that went quickly into boreNsnore mode was urchin. after about three vertical passes he presented a nice tits down view I was able to draw lead and collected a nice beaver pelt. it wasn't too long before he returned to the relative safety of the MA.
Yea, sorry to let you down there 4c3.
The only two fighters available for the Brits were the Spit 5 and Hurri 2c.
I do vaguely remember you getting a cherrypick on me in an X on 1, is that the heroic engagement to which you are referring?
And I "quickly fled" to the MA because the AvA is like the CT, which is to say it is... well... boring. The flying there is even more timid in the MA because (normally) one side doesn't have a plane that does everything better than the other sides planes. So usually the side with the "fast" plane (LW or US) bore n zooms the slow plane side (japan or britain) while they wait for sufficient numbers to show up to actually have a chance at landing some hits during their timid passes.
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Hehe zazen i dont just vulch :p ....much......
I choose to be good at AH....i choose to spend time in the DA and see how i can kill people faster...more efficiently...i like 2 v 1's because when i take em both out i feel better....thats how i play
many of us are AW vets...we were the best of the best there..we learned the flap and throttle and merges long before you could take a base or win a war...not long ago i was furballing with jaxxo and friends...lot of fun..at the end of it he said "you are getting away from the toolshedding and into furballing, good for you"....I WAS SHOCKED....
jaxxo didnt understand that many of us have already done the furball top pilot thing....the way i derive pleasure from the game is my squaddies and teammates (yes the chesspiece)...if i didnt like all the dimensions of the game i would have quit long ago....thats why i dont country jump...to me it is a sign that the game is stale and a person has to switch sides to "punish someone/something" or to find situations (i.e. furballs) that better suit their limited dimension of fun...too many i see quit not long after the jumping begins...
there are other games i play...tribes..everquest...wo rld of warcraft...i am average at best...im sure there are vets there posting about dweebs like me....but i dont have the time to dedicate to so many games to fly like a vet in all of them....IM SURE THE SAME HOLDS HERE...there will always be guys who choose not to improve, not because of some personal defecit, but because their time allows only so much improvement and that would take away from their time for fun...
Finally there are guys who cant afford the setups many of us "vets" have...lets be honest..Frame rate matters...monitor matters...joystick setup matters...video card matters...in the last 3 months since i upgraded my computer and video card my K/D in a fiter went from 2:1 to 6:1....trust me i didnt get that much better...i just am more efficient with my shots and can stay up longer without running out of ammo...
why dont we just enjoy the community we have and thank goodness that so many are interested in flying...ch200 is an embarrassment...shades are an embarrasssment...lets try and fix our own house instead of building others:aok
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this whole thread makes me sad...maybe it is a wake up call to hang it up..the friends ive made flying is really the only deciding factor on why Im still here...it is a great game with even greater potential...sadly you cant fight human nature's "easy way out" approach.....
(http://shim1.shutterfly.com/procsserv/F-gNWTFozbtHZwIJEgy_OA)
figured id start building my new system
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no cherry pick there red baron. you guys were just spanked, period the spanking so "bored" you that you retired, wisely I might add.
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This stuff becomes tense only when some vet starts calling the other guy by names just because they refuse to "fly" or "learn" in the way they see fit. For example, your own attitude (or any other "vet's" for that matter) in this discussion disguises some clever 'concern' for the other guy - how you are worried that the other guy is "never going to grow".
Want to show me where I started calling you names?
What is wrong with you're head man?
I'm not going to read that full page essay you just wrote on how you are too lazy, or too weak minded to learn. As far as the name calling goes, youre full of it. I'm not worried at all about you or how you "grow". I never said I was you chink. There, now you can say I called you a name. I simply said "you", not you in particular, are never going to get better if you dont push things.
The MA and AH as a whole is so full of freaking newbs and people that just plainly suck now, that I packed up shop months ago and haven't looked back. Those same people are the ones who find it more fun to bomb chit, than dog fight. And i think HT wants it that way.
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Great pic jaxxo!
Hope you would not hang it up....too many good pilots have already left because they couldnt seem to find the mix they needed anymore...you always add fun when you are on with your comments and i think that is good...
but again beware the one dimensional boredom!!
funniest interchange i saw in awhile was last nite while BoPs were defending 40 from knit attack at 39. To set it up...knits had superior numbers..few bops and i got up and 999000 is there as well. we fly into a bunch of knits and killed a slew of them...one was a guy named ailuf...suddenly Waldo says "hey ailuf is bish now" we joke on squad ch about how we kilt him hard enuf that he got blown into bishdom...then on range channel this interchange occurs:
ailuf: woah the legendary 999000 flies for this country?
limmi: yes he does
ailuf: he is a legend over there
999000: LOL
ailuf: the knits talk about him all the time
ailuf: they fear him!
I ABSOLUTELY LOVED THAT!!! we all know 999000 is a great guy but here is pure respect being paid to a humble non-fiter jock team player. made my night. i was grinning for the next 15 minutes...
may we all deserve that unasked for....non-DA'd for respect from fellow players:aok
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We just do what's necessary for us in the immediate presence of superior enemy pilots. We sure as hell aren't gonna voluntarily help rack up someone else's score so they can teach us "a lesson in becoming better" by swatting us down like flies.
There is that magic word as DoK pointed out ... SCORE. I'll bet the ranch that Urchin could give a rats arse about score ... he just wants to fight. Timidness is a byproduct of those whos virtual life revolves around score and thinking that score indicates their abilities.
Rather, since we're probably never gonna become a Leviathan or a Fester or a Drex anyway, we'd rather become "better" in the art of "pissing off hot-shot pilots by never giving them a chance to kill you, and scoring only small amount of kills safely and easily, instead of giving the superior pilot a chance in what he loves to do."
Guys like Lev, Fester, and Drex didn't just wake up one day, grab a joystick, and become what they are today. I am sure that they have died many a virtual death. Guys with skills such as these probably had a shorter learning curve, but still, had to mix it up inorder to get where they are.
Hell ... have you ever seen the Drex Ju-88 film ... unbelieveable ... If he gave a watermelon about score, he would never have lifted the Ju-88 knowing that the plane is a slug with 2 engines.
we'd rather become "better" in the art of "pissing off
That seems to be a more prevalent attitude in AH these days and that is probably one of the more significant reasons why the MA sucks pond water these days. Timidity and griefer are true game killers.
Ofcourse, being grossly average, even that kind of flying yields only a very modest score. But still, it's satisfying to us, since we fly the way how we see fit, not how someone else dictates so we can become 'lesson material' by being shot down.
Once again it's about "score" ... which drives timidity. What's wrong with a "lesson" ... if it isn't shoved in your face ... which I have to agree that most find necessary to thump their chest on CH 200 and degrade the loser, which I also believe is a major contribitor to timidity. If you spank a newb ... send them a <> ... it will lessen the hurt and make them feel that dying really isn't all that tragic.
How we fly is our call. The vets can comment all they want on how it's 'boring' and 'lame' and 'not helpful in getting any better', but none of that is gonna change how we fly. Call us pansies and scaredy-cats, but in the end, we're not the one's complaining or getting pissed off.
Those who know you, know that you are not a card carrying member of this group ... I have flown against you and with you. You are just carrying the mantle to play devils advocate here ... nice try ... ;)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
[BOfcourse, being grossly average, even that kind of flying yields only a very modest score. But still, it's satisfying to us, since we fly the way how we see fit, not how someone else dictates so we can become 'lesson material' by being shot down.
Once again it's about "score" ... which drives timidity. What's wrong with a "lesson" ... if it isn't shoved in your face ... which I have to agree that most find necessary to thump their chest on CH 200 and degrade the loser, which I also believe is a major contribitor to timidity. If you spank a newb ... send them a <> ... it will lessen the hurt and make them feel that dying really isn't all that tragic.
[/B]
I have no doubt some fly timidly for scoring purposes. Although flying too timidly actually harms your score, so even that may be a somewhat misguided premise. But, believe it or not, some fly, what I call, conservatively simply because killing efficiently without dying is what they find most realistic and fun. I know this because I am one of those. I could not care less about my rank, but I do care about not giving up my pelt due to stupidity. I'd much rather kill 2 and live than kill 5 and die.
A perfect hop is what makes my nads wiggle, a perfect hop to me would be to outsmart/outshoot/outfly half a dozen decent pilots and survive. I would quest for my definition of a perfect hop just for my own personal amusement and nothing more, whether scores, ranks, stats, buffer accolades, etc. existed or not...So, I would not go so far to say everyone who flies "conservatively" does so for the sole reason of scoring...
Zazen
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Lets also acknowledge that there is a difference between flying smart and flying timid. A FW driver who doesn't get sucked into a turn fight with a Spit is smart. A P38 driver at 20K who runs away from a 109 at 15K is timid.
Likewise there are varying kinds of veteran players. Not all of them/us are like Drex or Levi. There's a lot of real good players who drive 190's and 51's. And most can do well in just about every plane available. And I'll wager almost none of the true veterans care about score anymore.
"The Art of Pissing People Off?" ... puhleaze ... the closest I've seen to anything I'd even acknowledge as a worthy effort is capturing TT/FT. The incessant HO'n'Go dweebs and outhouse addicts are an annoyance, but nothing more.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I have no doubt some fly timidly for scoring purposes. Although flying too timidly actually harms your score, so even that may be a somewhat misguided premise. But, believe it or not, some fly, what I call, conservatively simply because killing efficiently without dying is what they find most realistic and fun. I know this because I am one of those. I could not care less about my rank, but I do care about not giving up my pelt due to stupidity. I'd much rather kill 2 and live than kill 5 and die.
A perfect hop is what makes my nads wiggle, a perfect hop to me would be to outsmart/outshoot/outfly half a dozen decent pilots and survive. I would quest for my definition of a perfect hop just for my own personal amusement and nothing more, whether scores, ranks, stats, buffer accolades, etc. existed or not...So, I would not go so far to say everyone who flies "conservatively" does so for the sole reason of scoring...
Zazen
The word "conservative" was not used once in my post. Like DoK stated above, there is a vast difference in flying smartly and being timid.
I love nothing more that being low and slow and seeing s P-38, P-47, 109/190 ... BnZ the crap out of me ... properly.
When they make their first pass, then immediately zoom within 800 to 1.5 and come right back with the same attack ... that I can appreciate ... cause that is using the plane to it's maximum aggresiveness.
I have been killed (in my Spit V / Hurri II / FM2) by those who know what they are doing ... and I love it. They are confident enough to at least expose themselfs to a possible mistake (make a fight of it), which I will jump on if they make one, but at least they fought ... and they didn't have to TnB with me to do it.
When I fly a BnZ plane I will do the above ... my heart practically jumps out of my chest on each pass and zoom cause I know that if I make a mistake ... it will cost me ... but were gonna have a heck of a go-around until one of us dies.
BUT ... when they BnZ on the first pass ... extent to 6.0+ ... and then come back when you are then engaged, they are the timid ones and have not learned to use their plane properly and are scared to die.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
THEY (levi...fester etc) DONT PLAY ANYMORE!!!!!!! :rofl :rofl
I don't? That's news to me. Did you cancel my account or something?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I don't believe that score actually motivates much of the timid flying. Rather, fear of dying encourages people to gang, vulch, and otherwise engage in the types of activities that encourage survivability. This has less to do about score or rank (after all, you hardly obtain much rank by landing 30 sorties and gaining only 8 kills) than it does about an unwillingness to appear weak or noobish.
The game offers players this path of least resistance, and unsurprisingly many choose to follow it. I suppose I can't blame them; the game has a daunting learning curve, the arena is huge compared to when many of us "old" vets started, and few mechanisms exist to discourage this behavior other than posting threads that these players won't read. Timid players "win" by not dying, by encountering the enemy and living another day.
Why do they headon? Probably because that's the only time the other plane isn't wildly maneuvering to avoid them. That's their one good shot right there.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The word "conservative" was not used once in my post. Like DoK stated above, there is a vast difference in flying smartly and being timid.
I love nothing more that being low and slow and seeing s P-38, P-47, 109/190 ... BnZ the crap out of me ... properly.
When they make their first pass, then immediately zoom within 800 to 1.5 and come right back with the same attack ... that I can appreciate ... cause that is using the plane to it's maximum aggresiveness.
I have been killed (in my Spit V / Hurri II / FM2) by those who know what they are doing ... and I love it. They are confident enough to at least expose themselfs to a possible mistake (make a fight of it), which I will jump on if they make one, but at least they fought ... and they didn't have to TnB with me to do it.
When I fly a BnZ plane I will do the above ... my heart practically jumps out of my chest on each pass and zoom cause I know that if I make a mistake ... it will cost me ... but were gonna have a heck of a go-around until one of us dies.
BUT ... when they BnZ on the first pass ... extent to 6.0+ ... and then come back when you are then engaged, they are the timid ones and have not learned to use their plane properly and are scared to die.
Ok, I can appreciate that distinction.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I mean, if they really want others to learn, they can be the ones flying the role of the "target drone" and get shot down during the process. Why's it always have to be us who becomes the guinea-pigs in the vet demonstration of "how to sucker a fool"?
Alright, I'm gonna assume Slap is right on the devil's advocate thing, because this statement is just foolish.
Which one of the guys in this thread isn't willing to do this? Urchin? Morpheus? Widewing? Have you ever spent any time with any of these people in the DA?
Do you honestly think that if you asked them, "Hey, I can't figure out this evasive... Can I get on your tail and you pull it off so I can get it on film?" that they wouldn't oblige? Come on, get off it man. Take Widewing up on that offer. He'll give you his six. Or whatever angle you want to work on. His job is to help you get better.
Most everyone in this thread that is arguing against you has either taken me into the DA (From way back when I was AWFUL to now when I'm mediocre), wrote me emails/messages on what I'm screwing up and what to try, or helped me along in the help forum with some insight. ALL I HAD TO DO WAS ASK.
The only reason I haven't spent any time with some of the other people, is I NEVER ASKED. I know they've all helped someone else who did.
How you fly is not my business, true, but if you're going to insinuate that vets aren't serious about wanting to help others reach their level, I'm going to call you on it.
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SO would anyone play this game if there were no "XXX landed 77 kills in an LA7 for the GeNerALz aRe KiNg squad" attaboys?
Would anyone play if there was no rank system or scoring system?
Being on the top of the AH scoreboard and a buck might get you a can of Coke right?
LOL It's like talking into the wind. Who cares about the score. What's the point if you don't get in and mix it up a bit?
No one dies, planes are free. Forget the attaboys and scoreboard. Best way to get better is to get in there and fight.
You might surprise yourself and kill a few....unless you are like me and just get a kick out of seeing how many pieces your plane gets blown into each flight :)
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Why do they headon? Probably because that's the only time the other plane isn't wildly maneuvering to avoid them. That's their one good shot right there.
-- Todd/Leviathn
home for lunch..quick question, Lev
do you think if the Head On Shot was lowered percentage wise or made nearly useless, that people would then decide to LEARN how to "gain angles" "understand E-Management" and practice "Lead turns/defelction shots/anything else besides JOUSTING?
or
do you think the multitude of them would just go find another game that is much easier for them?
ok.out the door, samwitch in hand got do go make that dime.....
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Planes are free, no one dies. Screw the scoreboard. Have some fun and die a little.
I so agree with that statement.
All this typing is a waste of time.The MA is an ARCADE ARENA so play in it like it is.
I see all these bad arse virtual pilots on this BB talkin all this smack and all that smack about how they are so awesome and your not,when you log in too the MA(MA = Major Arcade) you see those same people landing kills in the easiest planes there are like they are so awesome.
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The folks who man the TA are very good at spotting problems in technique. And they work there every night just because they love the game.
And in the MA you'd be surprised how much a veteran player can see about what you're doing wrong, even from 2K away. All you need to do is ask.
Compared to when some of us started - when *all* we had was a copy of Shaw and a vivid imagination - "these kids today" have it so easy in terms of learning the game. I have a tough time feeling sympathy for someone who won't take one evening off from shooting up outhouses to go to the TA and freakin' learn a few things.
But so many n00bs are "good at flight sims" and their fragile little egos can't handle the notion that someone with a decade or two of experience might be able to teach 'em something.
Oh ... and as far as mixing it up to learn ... that's fine ... as long as after each death you can see WHY you died. Otherwise you're just jerking off with sandpaper.
-DoK
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
home for lunch..quick question, Lev
do you think if the Head On Shot was lowered percentage wise or made nearly useless, that people would then decide to LEARN how to "gain angles" "understand E-Management" and practice "Lead turns/defelction shots/anything else besides JOUSTING?
or
do you think the multitude of them would just go find another game that is much easier for them?
ok.out the door, samwitch in hand got do go make that dime.....
As I recall, AW did precisely this. Hell, for a while you could fly right through each other on the merge. All of a sudden people were working for angles instead of trying to gut shoot each other. It was a smaller game then, so those playing weren't about to leave.
In AH, I'd expect such a change would result in more vultching (i.e. timid approach to enema base and then strafe field until dead, lather, rinse, repeat). The use of the La-7 would probably drop off too, without that HO shot it's not as effective. Probably see people convert from Spit16 to Spit8 as well.
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I still have my account, but never play anymore because of this issue.
I want air-to-air fighter combat, and most of the MA occupants seem to want air-to-mud work.
The Fighter Town areas were fun, but most maps didn't have them
I really don't care if I lose after a good fight. Sure, I'd rather win, but a loss after a good fight is far, far more enjoyable than a cherry pick. Sadly, too many people don't fight.
Last time I played I did get a nice fight against a guy in a Spit XVI and that was fun. Even got a out of it, so I think he had a fun time too.
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The folks who man the TA are very good at spotting problems in technique. And they work there every night
Maybe Ghosth and WideWing,that is about all out of the "Trainers".The people who help the others learn and cannot type in blue are in the TA more than the ones who can type in blue.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Maybe Ghosth and WideWing,that is about all out of the "Trainers".The people who help the others learn and cannot type in blue are in the TA more than the ones who can type in blue.
Wrong thread for this jab.
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TC, I think that those people would continue to attempt the headon, but they would succeed in killing with it and dying by it less often. As long as people attempt to headon, it should continue to present the best possible shot for the relatively clueless regardless of hit percentage.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Maybe Ghosth and WideWing,that is about all out of the "Trainers".The people who help the others learn and cannot type in blue are in the TA more than the ones who can type in blue.
haha, didn't you get banned as a trainer? Someone's still bitter...
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haha, didn't you get banned as a trainer?
You have too be a trainer to be banned first moron.Too think of it now i would rather be a paying customer than a croonie of HT for the custumer is always right.
Wrong thread for this jab.
was no jab was simply setting someone straight.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Oh ... and as far as mixing it up to learn ... that's fine ... as long as after each death you can see WHY you died.
-DoK
Hehe...after being killed by the same guy 4 times in a row it was because I sucked. As passed to his squaddie who was flying Knights at the time. I already knew that so I didn't learn anything. Unless maybe it would be go fast and don't turn. :D
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Hehe...after being killed by the same guy 4 times in a row it was because I sucked. As passed to his squaddie who was flying Knights at the time. I already knew that so I didn't learn anything. Unless maybe it would be go fast and don't turn. :D
Well even that is a lesson.
Recognizing when you're over-matched (due to skill, joystick, and/or plane selection) and getting away is a victory. I'd rather tangle with someone who realized he was over his head and was able to evade and break off, than someone who realizes the same thing and goes into Joust Mode instead.
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(due to skill, joystick, and/or plane selection)
Joystick has nothing to do with it.Plane selection has nothing to do with it.In the end it all comes down to knowledge of the plane you are fighting and experience in SA awareness.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Joystick has nothing to do with it.Plane selection has nothing to do with it.In the end it all comes down to knowledge of the plane you are fighting and experience in SA awareness.
Uh ... knowing the limits of what you can make the plane do with your stick, and what the enema's plane can do relative to yours, is all part of SA.
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knowing the limits of what you can make the plane do with your stick, and what the enema's plane can do relative to yours, is all part of SA.
How did you come too that conclusion, please share with all of us.Last time i checked, SA meant situational awareness.i know people who will out fly you with a mouse while having all the SA in the world.I have shot down people with a 20$ Microsoft while they have X-52's or CH products out their arse.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
How did you come too that conclusion, please share with all of us. ...
You are not worthy of my wisdom.
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LOL AP. You are far too stoopid to be arguing with Dok.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
LOL AP. You are far too stoopid to be arguing with Dok.
AMEN!
And to answer your question Stang...
Basically Ghosth or TC told AP that if it was between a noob and him, they'd pick the noob:rofl Of coarse I can't blame them considering his teaching consist of a 15K hard deck and his best(and only) ACM is a rope which he calls an immel?
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You are not worthy of my wisdom.
Yea your right as if i would care anyway.You and the other super awesome dweeb flying plane types can eat a ****
...........werd!
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Next AP will brag that he is trolling us all .
Wait and see.
Bronk
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Sayeth AutoPilot:
I see all these bad arse virtual pilots on this BB talkin all this smack and all that smack about how they are so awesome and your not ...
And a few hours later AutoPilot doth utter:
I have shot down people with a 20$ Microsoft while they have X-52's or CH products out their arse.
(http://www.gonzoville.com/share/files/1/Files/pwned.jpg)
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and that folks, concludes this lesson on "SA" ;)
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slight mismatch in a battle of wits between AP and DoK.... that's like a quadroplegic midget (AP) vs. mike tyson (DoK).... :rolleyes:
and your stick makes absolutely ZERO difference in the end... if your stick doesn't spike, has a view hat, and a trigger, you'll be FINE. I've been using a $50 stick since I started this game, and didn't bother getting pedals until a few months ago....
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Yea your right as if i would care anyway.You and the other super awesome dweeb flying plane types can eat a ****
...........werd!
LMAO and what do you do? Just log in and "chat" to people from the tower?
LOL like I said, you are too stoopid to argue this one.
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:lol
Go Dok.
:aok
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Even a retarded midget with muscle disorders can make kills while flying a Spitfire,Niki and a cheap stick.
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Originally posted by Glasses
Even a retarded midget with muscle disorders can make kills while flying a Spitfire,Niki and a cheap stick.
No I can't.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
But, believe it or not, some fly, what I call, conservatively simply because killing efficiently without dying is what they find most realistic and fun. I know this because I am one of those. I could not care less about my rank, but I do care about not giving up my pelt due to stupidity. I'd much rather kill 2 and live than kill 5 and die.
Zazen
I very much agree.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I get frustrated just like everyone else, and one of the things that frustrates me the most is seeing someone who is in a plane that is superior in every single way to the one I'm in refuse to fight at all. Not E-fighting, not angles fighting, not doing much except making lazy halfass bore n zoom passes while screaming for more people to show up and come help him (presumably).
(presumably) >>>>That can be presumed or taken for granted; reasonable as a supposition: presumable causes of the disaster.<<<< It never ceases to amaze me when GAMEPLAYERS of your skill level complain about not finding challenging fights. If you are at a level where it takes 6 on 1 to challenge your skills...then by all means do so. Sir.
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he couldn't handle 3 190s all at lower alts in the AvA the other day and the fight started 3 on 3 to begin with and they were all in spitVs with a significant alt advantage.
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Yes i switched because i got hot headed from lack of teamwork. And sure I respect those good players on the other team like 999000.
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I don't really see any real difference between the sides. To think one side doesn't use teamwork, or one just vulches and porks troops and ord is a ridiculous statement.
If the sides were different, they'd have different planes, settings. But no, each side has the same access to the amount and type of airplanes and ordinance.
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Originally posted by wetrat
and your stick makes absolutely ZERO difference in the end... if your stick doesn't spike, has a view hat, and a trigger, you'll be FINE. I've been using a $50 stick since I started this game, and didn't bother getting pedals until a few months ago....
I beg to agree AND disagree.
Yes, a good pilot with a mouse can probably beat a bad one with a full CH setup.
But, a better stick still makes things easier.
When i started flying, i did so with a very simple JS with hatswitch and a small throttle lever, four buttons, no rudder. My "skill" especially gunnery and low speed abilities jumped to about triple when i got a stick that had rudder control (rocker).
A few months back, i got a X45.... while the difference wasnt THAT noticable, i now use flaps a lot more and smoother then i did when i still had to remove hand from rudder to reach the buttons.
Im pretty sure once i get pedals, my rudder control will improve. Thats at least what i try to tell myself ;).
So, yes, equipment does make a difference (to a certain point). But it wont do the "dirty work" ie training/learning/practice for you. You gotta learn to USE it.
PS: Autopilot, i havent seen YOU in the TA for quite a while....
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Maybe Ghosth and WideWing,that is about all out of the "Trainers"......
Strongly disagree!! I've had excellent direct contact with Badboy and Murdr, whose styles of teaching match well with my style of learning. Even guys whose teaching styles dont click as well with me have been so eager to help out that I've felt guilty for not doing sessions with them. (Thanks Hammer, Widewing, and TC -- trust me its learning style, not teacher deficiiency!!)
Some trainers are great at fundamentals, solidifying building blocks that only show up in combat skills down the road.
Others dont verbalize as directly, but they're great at doing a fight and telling you where you zigged instead of zagged.
All of them have made a long term commitment to give up their free time - and flight time -- to teach those who want to learn, and the ride herd on the TA when those with "personalities" make life uncomfortable for the rest of us.
great folks like schatzi and infensus also teach lots, and because there're
only a few trainers the unofficial ones make do a huge amount the rest of the time.
Dont slam the trainers. They're an important volunteer resource.
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Took me a while to realize that some people WANT to play, but DON'T want to get better.
Even guys wiht limited time could take a 30 minutes -- giving up a single flight session -- to spend with a trainer appointment. That single appointment could make noticable changes, changes that I'd think would make the game MORE fun from then on. Two months later, try another appointment and learn one more thing.
But some players are either perfectly happy dying a lot, or they're happy enough in their unhappiness that they dont want to take steps to move forward.
ITs not the way my head works, so I can't pretend to understand it, and I wont offer any theories. Well, maybe its the guys refusal to ask directions gone wild...dunno. But I've seen guys who played 4+ yers with kpd's of 0.6, who wanted help with setting up new equipment but didnt want any tips on actually flying. I've had 1v1s in the MA where the con flat turned to my immel, and I've PM'd -- "hey, no offense or ego, but do you want to know how I got behind you so fast?" -- with no response.
Wanting to do it better isnt the same as wishing I could beat Morph or Lev or Urchin. I dont have the natural talent to get to the very top, and I wouldnt want to invest the discipline and time it'd take for me to get that good. Its a game, not my life. But personally I just dont understand not wanting to improve.
Bottom line is its their $15, and if they dont want to build thir skills no amount of arguing or whining will change their mind.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Im pretty sure once i get pedals, my rudder control will improve. Thats at least what i try to tell myself ;).
The rocker for rudder control I found useless for the most part. Rudder pedals is the way to go. Much better control.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
The rocker for rudder control I found useless for the most part. Rudder pedals is the way to go. Much better control.
Well..... if everyone responding to this thread sends me one dollar... i can order them next week. :D
Till then, it will have to stay a dream.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
The MA is nothing more than an ARCADE ARENA any more.If you want some good fighting action then spend more time in the AvA, and before you say" well there's never anyone in there" you should spend some time in the arena, eventually someone will show up and fight with you.
Not true, at least not always. I went in there the other week, was SpitV versus A5s. I upped a 190 since there was one guy on that team and three on the Brits. Headed toward the only enemy dot I saw. Figured i was dweebing badly enough when I hit 12K so i leveled out. When I got into icon range he was at 20K. I used his extreme speed "advantage" to dodge him a few times, got co-alt and co-E, made a 520 degree turnfight and was losing angles badly (duh...he was a spit) so I egressed out to about d1.5 when I was called out as a runner on open channel.
He broke off and dove to the deck over the channel. I followed but by the time I made my 180 he was out of icon range. I kept following his dot, he was very low and I was about 7K. He must have been boogying pretty well since by the time I saw an icon we were almost over England. I beagan to engage, this time with an alt advantage when two more spits showed up quite a bit higher than me. I pressed the attack thinking this is the CT and there's some chivalry here when one of them came zooming in. I broke off and ran (yeah THIS time I was running) back to France. I landed and exited while the open channel was full of cat calls and name calling.
To sumarise...I got 1.5 distance between us and I am a luftrunner yet he ran beyond icon range. Spit drivers always want their opponents to flat-turn with them and anyone who uses speed is a runner, yet I tried to continue a fight but was dragged to a gang of friends....sigh.
I figured I can see this watermelon in the MA and at least have more fun with more targets and threats. I'll try the CT/AvA again in another year and see if it still reeks.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
My "skill" especially gunnery
errr.....
:D
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Originally posted by Edbert
Not true, at least not always. I went in there the other week, was SpitV versus A5s. I upped a 190 since there was one guy on that team and three on the Brits. Headed toward the only enemy dot I saw. Figured i was dweebing badly enough when I hit 12K so i leveled out. When I got into icon range he was at 20K. I used his extreme speed "advantage" to dodge him a few times, got co-alt and co-E, made a 520 degree turnfight and was losing angles badly (duh...he was a spit) so I egressed out to about d1.5 when I was called out as a runner on open channel.
He broke off and dove to the deck over the channel. I followed but by the time I made my 180 he was out of icon range. I kept following his dot, he was very low and I was about 7K. He must have been boogying pretty well since by the time I saw an icon we were almost over England. I beagan to engage, this time with an alt advantage when two more spits showed up quite a bit higher than me. I pressed the attack thinking this is the CT and there's some chivalry here when one of them came zooming in. I broke off and ran (yeah THIS time I was running) back to France. I landed and exited while the open channel was full of cat calls and name calling.
To sumarise...I got 1.5 distance between us and I am a luftrunner yet he ran beyond icon range. Spit drivers always want their opponents to flat-turn with them and anyone who uses speed is a runner, yet I tried to continue a fight but was dragged to a gang of friends....sigh.
I figured I can see this watermelon in the MA and at least have more fun with more targets and threats. I'll try the CT/AvA again in another year and see if it still reeks.
the AvA is at times populated by allied players who are as timid as can be, other times you get as good as you give but on it's worst day it is infinitely better than the best MA day I've ever had, especially now. on sunday I went into the MA for a few minutes and ran up 11 kills with three deaths in 110s or 109s and the deaths were from 4 plus spits and corsairs all with great alt advantage, even then I managed to take out at least one per death that way. keep the MA it's not very much fun and even less of a challenge.
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Originally posted by Furball
errr.....
:D
I never said it got GOOD... i said it tripled from what it WAS!!
Hey, you lazy bum... get back from your holiday, i need something to shoot at! :t
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Originally posted by Urchin
No Krusty, I'd agree with you if I exclusively flew the Spit. I get timid horde pilots in *every* kind of plane doing the timid halfass stuff while waiting for friends to show up and help. I can be a 109/190 and I'll get a couple Spit 16s above me circling, waiting for more - because they are to timid to mix it up with a plane that is much less manueverable than theirs. It is disgusting, as far as I'm concerned.
I just want to fight, I'll fight anyone in anything as long as it is fun. I think I've died maybe 2 or 3 times one on one this tour, and all of them were knife fighting more manueverable planes than the one I was flying. Why? Because I enjoy it, it is fun.
Dodging X timid sissies in whatever plane I happen to be flying is *not* fun. And 99% of the timid sissies will lower the lance and flip down the visor if you offer them a joust... which is completely incomprehensible to me. It makes no sense at all.
I agree, and am just like you Urch. My guess is you were still in the Spit8. You fly that very good. I know you were in the middle of a couple of 2 on 1's, or 3 on 1's. When I got you I luckily rolled a Hurricane with 50% fuel, had there been 100%, I wouldn't have gotten you. I didn't fire in the HO, and tried to have a damn fun, and good knife fight. <> We had a blast fighting you and Wotan.
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I have spent some time in the AvA... on it's best days it is as good as the Ma but on it's worst it is far worse than the Ma.
LW or allied... no one really fights unless they are new or have a huge advantage... the skill levels are about average but there are a lot better players that are in the Ma.
Mostl... the players in the AvA are like the Ma in that they look for a way to gang. It really is nothing special but it can be a diversion if you don't mind the limited and unfair plane sets. Once in a great while there will be a good furball in it.
What I find is that there is one or two LW squads that play as a team in the AvA.. the numbers are so low that it gives 2-6 players who play as a team a huge advantage... they can work the guys who are basicly, singles uping at different times. It can get old fast if you don't think the germans were cheated out of the win in WWII or that you look good in a black uniform.
lazs
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The typical response to this is ....
What a big cry baby session!
So let me get this right ....
People are upset becuase not every joe pilot out there will fly thier way so you can shoot them down then get on ch200 and badmouth them.
Waaaa! :cry
Sounds more like people crying becuase not every one will hand you thier butt on a platter, depriving you of your smack talking gloat time.
Oh god! The Horror! The terror! :O
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See Rule #7
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Originally posted by Urchin
That has GOT to be the most retarded logic I've ever had the pleasure to witness. Why on earth would you casually accept a 50% chance of getting blown up or crippled, when you won't even press an attack on a moving target.
So why do people do it?
Because, if you fight, you could lose. It has nothing to do with dieing or score, in most cases. Its about ego. They know they can't fight (especialy if they knew you may be in the area) and they dont want to be bit. So, they will take the 50-50 chance anyday since if they do end up losing, YOU did not bit them with skill but just luck. So, you are not any better than them. That keeps them huppy.
If you think I made that up, check again. I've been in a couple of squads were after the squad ace gets killed, he and a few othe aces anounce that they will go out in a lala and HO the guy that killed them.
Retarded? You bet. But most people are
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
You have too be a trainer to be banned first moron.
you also have to know ACM and how to fly/fight in AH to be a trainer...3 qualities you do not possess in any amount.
ack-ack