Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on May 01, 2006, 02:04:31 PM
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'Day Without Immigrants' under way (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/immigrant.day/index.html)
Jeff Salsbery told The Associated Press that he was losing thousands of dollars because 25 Latino workers hadn't shown up at his Carmel, Indiana, landscaping company.
"I'm not very happy this morning," Salsbery told the AP. "We're basically shut down in our busiest month of the year."
Well, Jeff, ol' buddy.... you'd be a whole lot unhappier if they put me in charge of enforcement.
Here you are basically admitting that you knowingly employ illegals and crying that you're losing money.
I throw your sad arse in jail and simultaneously fine you as much as the law allowed.
YOU asnd those like YOU, Jeff, are one of the, if not THE, major reason we have a problem with illegals in this country.
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Can't say that I've noticed them being gone.
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I have no sympathy for illegals or anyone that takes part in this sissy protest. If they dont like things here, they need to pack their bags and leave the USA
Time to build a berlin wall between mexico and the US and shoot anyone that tries to cross illegally
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Build the wall, sure.... save the shooting for people like ol' Jeff. They are the reason illegals come here.
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/ATT14164031.jpg)
Never forget this!!!!!
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Now you are getting it Toad old bean...
make it a one year mandatory jail sentance for anyone employing illegals and the problem goes away like magic... along with some of the sleazest scum bag employers since the slave trader days..
Those employers are not even one tiny step above the slavers. They are making a profit off of Americans and illegals.
I would not be opposed to putting a bounty on em.
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
Build the wall, sure.... save the shooting for people like ol' Jeff. They are the reason illegals come here.
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
BTW.. I approve. ;)
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Laz, I think it's already against the law.
Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime.
And this is from law.com
Six of seven current and former IFCO managers charged with felony conspiracy to harbor illegal aliens were released on bond and are to appear May 4 in Albany, N.Y., where the criminal complaint was filed and the investigation began at a suburban IFCO facility.
The managers could face up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for each alien involved, as well as forfeitures.
Start locking up the guys doing the hiring for 10 years and see how fast jobs for illegals dry up. No jobs, no point in coming here illegally.
It's the same old story; our problems are not new. Most of them have been around a long time; laws are on the books to deal with them.
However, the laws are not being enforced. What a suprise. The problem is us.
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I haven't seen a lawn service all day, anywhere, not even at one of the dozens of gas stations I've driven by. My office is in a neighborhood, and I pass through or past several on my way home. Not a single trailer of lawn equipment anywhere.
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Originally posted by Toad
'Day Without Immigrants' under way (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/immigrant.day/index.html)
Well, Jeff, ol' buddy.... you'd be a whole lot unhappier if they put me in charge of enforcement.
Here you are basically admitting that you knowingly employ illegals and crying that you're losing money.
I throw your sad arse in jail and simultaneously fine you as much as the law allowed.
YOU asnd those like YOU, Jeff, are one of the, if not THE, major reason we have a problem with illegals in this country.
I'm wondering where in Salsbery's quote did he admit to hiring illegal immigrants. :rolleyes:
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I heard on the radio that today is "Pinko de Mayo" :D
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'm wondering where in Salsbery's quote did he admit to hiring illegal immigrants. :rolleyes:
The whole purpose of the walkout and marches is to protest the "tough immigration laws" and make it easier to get citizenship.
So you think all those protesting already have their papers?
Landscape businesses are primary employment sources for illegals. It's possible Jeff ONLY hires legal citizens but it is extremely unlikely that that is the case.
I hope they investigate every single one of Jeff's employees and fine him according to statute if there are any that are illegal.
But then I feel that way about everyone using illegal immigrants as labor.
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I suppose on may 5th that stupid mexican day I should have banners that say
"Support America, deport illegals" :D
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Originally posted by Toad
So you think all those protesting already have their papers?
Many (if not most) probably do.
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I think your estimate is way, way off.
On February 7, 1997 the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) released its latest estimate for the size and growth of the illegal alien population in the United States, updating its 1994 report.
One of the findings was that the illegal population is 54 percent Mexican.
Who's primarily marching and boycotting today?
Quotes About National Immigrant Boycott (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3832430.html)
— Quotes from immigrants, business owners and others about Monday's national boycott.
"I really hope and I dream that we are not made into criminals, that there not be roundups and that they don't build that big wall they're talking about building." _ Jorge Reyes, an illegal immigrant who has been in the United States for six years, at a rally in Allentown, Pa.
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"We don't come here the legal way. But we don't come here to do anything bad, just support our family because our country is so very poor." _ Derrick Trundle, 29, a landscape worker and native of Honduras, at a rally in New Orleans.
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"I'm not very happy this morning. We're basically shut down in our busiest month of the year. It's going to cost me thousands of dollars today." _ Jeff Salsbery, owner of Salsbery Brothers Landscaping in Carmel, Ind.
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"Every time I see an immigrant, I say, 'Thank you for doing things for my country.'" _ Lupe Flores, 66, a native of Texas wrapped in an American flag as she marched through Milwaukee.
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"If I lose my job, it's worth it. It's worth losing several jobs to get my papers." _ Jose Cruz, 23, an immigrant from El Salvador who took the day off from his construction job to attend a rally in Homestead, Fla.
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"If he leaves, it's going to be hard for us." _ Halee Cisneros, 11, talking about her father, an illegal immigrant, at a rally in Phoenix.
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"If there is ever a time to show the world we are a compassionate people, this is it." _ Eamonn O'Neill, 64, who has tried to become a U.S. citizen since arriving from Ireland in 1965, at a rally in Milwaukee.
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"These guys come here, they work hard and they're honest. They're salt of the earth. They provide a vibrancy to our economy and our country that is fading." _ Denver-area contractor Chuck Saxton, who hires temporary workers and suspects some of his crews have been illegal immigrants.
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"I think it galvanizes average Americans into believing that there's a real problem that needs to be solved. The other thing that I think is important to note is these demonstrators here today do not speak for law-abiding Latino-American citizens." _ Republican National Committeeman Randy Pullen, a supporter of an Arizona law passed in 2004 to limit public services for illegal immigrants, outside a home-improvement store in Phoenix.
Yah... they're all legal. :rolleyes:
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why not build a wall all around mexico?
then fill it with water.. :t ;)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I heard on the radio that today is "Pinko de Mayo" :D
Some people are still in Red Scare mode, it is quite hilarious. :noid
International Worker's Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day)
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Here in my neck of San Antonio, the local wall-mart was absolutly dead. About 10 people alltogether in the store. The roads where very drivable this morning very little traffic. My trash didn't get picked up till about 4:30PM and there was VERY low attendence at my daughters school.
Other than that I marched on.
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Originally posted by Toad
I think your estimate is way, way off.
On February 7, 1997 the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) released its latest estimate for the size and growth of the illegal alien population in the United States, updating its 1994 report.
One of the findings was that the illegal population is 54 percent Mexican.
Who's primarily marching and boycotting today?
Quotes About National Immigrant Boycott (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3832430.html)
Yah... they're all legal. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
No one here said that they're all legal... and a list of nine quotes is not statistically significant.
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Didn't notice anything at school between AP tests and "marches", might when I go looking for a gun tonight though. At any rate, while they are marching, they can march right back to whatever country they originated from.
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I agree Nirvana
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Naw , no reason to put old Jeff in jail, just fine the piss out of him. I remember back in 1986 the feds put in all kinds of regs about this, it worked too.
Now it depends on where the contributions are flowing from, we have become a bannana republic.
shamus
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No no no no no, just do this take a BB Rifle go to the border line usually the fences, wait at night and take some pop shots, preferably a M249 SAW for the extra little fun, bring some paint nades, and put a nice big flood light on the fence on your truck. Happy camping!
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You know something, if I was an illegal immigrant, I think the l a s t thing I would want to do is proudly point it out. Or join a semi-riot slash protest with the goal of "shutting the city down" to get your way or else. Because the American people may have had this "awww" emotion for years...but when you *threaten* us and insist the laws shouldnt apply to you...then you've gone too far.
And these guys who hire the illegals deserve to be served and prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law.
Illegal immigration is a pretty simple issue. It needs to be addressed and stopped. But both stinking parties see "potential voters" more than enforcing the law of the land.
Bleah...
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Originally posted by Sandman
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
No one here said that they're all legal... and a list of nine quotes is not statistically significant.
Hey... you wanna believe it's all the already LEGAL immigrants out there campaigning for "Guest Worker" status and easier ways to become legal immigrants go ahead.
And if you want to believe that landscaper workers are primarily the LEGAL immigrants, go ahead.
I think I'll take a more logical view of it all.
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if you look at the locked thread, notice none of the MPs are in today to editing & enforcement
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I'm hugely pissed at the media... suddenly the word 'illegal' is very prominently missing from all the coverage.
CLUE; AMERICA: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE NOT 'IMMIGRANTS'. THEY ARE TRESPASSERS, BY ACT OF CONGRESS THEIR PRESENCE HERE IS IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW. THAT MAKES THEM CRIMINALS.
'IMMIGRANTS' ARE PEOPLE THAT COME HERE LEGALLY.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I'm hugely pissed at the media... suddenly the word 'illegal' is very prominently missing from all the coverage.
CLUE; AMERICA: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE NOT 'IMMIGRANTS'. THEY ARE TRESPASSERS, BY ACT OF CONGRESS THEIR PRESENCE HERE IS IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW. THAT MAKES THEM CRIMINALS.
'IMMIGRANTS' ARE PEOPLE THAT COME HERE LEGALLY.
hmmm... couldn't that be interpretted in such a manner that the main stream media would guilty under the code section Toad quoted above? I mean, that's only going to encourage them to stay/more to come right?
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i say wtg to the immigrants...if you don't want them , maybe some of the people should get off their fat arses and do some of the jobs the so called immigrants do...i say the lazy and shiftless are more of a burden..
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"I really hope and I dream that we are not made into criminals, that there not be roundups and that they don't build that big wall they're talking about building." _ Jorge Reyes, an illegal immigrant who has been in the United States for six years, at a rally in Allentown, Pa.
Hey buttwipe!
Your an "ILLEGAL" immigrant.
Your already a criminal
When you do something that is "ILLEGAL" that makes you a criminal.
:furious
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I mowed grass to buy my first car and I did landscaping as a summer job when I was going to college. I refuse to believe that illegals are the only way this is going to get done.
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Originally posted by Toad
Hey... you wanna believe it's all the already LEGAL immigrants out there campaigning for "Guest Worker" status and easier ways to become legal immigrants go ahead.
And if you want to believe that landscaper workers are primarily the LEGAL immigrants, go ahead.
I think I'll take a more logical view of it all.
Plenty of legal immigrants with illegal immigrant family and friends.
Maybe just maybe, the landscape workers are illegal, but the owner did not say that. Admitting that he had latino employees that didn't show up for work is not the same as admitting that his workers are illegal immigrants.
A more logical view is that illegal immigrants will keep a low profile and not attract attention to themselves by attending marches. The logical thing to do would be to boycott along with everyone else, but stay at home.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Here in my neck of San Antonio, the local wall-mart was absolutly dead. About 10 people alltogether in the store. The roads where very drivable this morning very little traffic. My trash didn't get picked up till about 4:30PM and there was VERY low attendence at my daughters school.
Other than that I marched on.
So in otherwords what your saying is with their absense you noticed an improvement in everything cept what time the garbage was picked up.
All the more reason to round them up and ship em back
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
i say wtg to the immigrants...if you don't want them , maybe some of the people should get off their fat arses and do some of the jobs the so called immigrants do...i say the lazy and shiftless are more of a burden..
I dont think anyone has a problem with immigrants.
If they want to come in legally and make a better life for themselves and their families I say. god bless em.
Its the ILLEGAL immigrant myself and others have a problem with.
I dont mind if you come into my house if I knowingly and willingly let you in.
But I'd get a bit upset if I opened my bedroom door and suddenly found some stranger had decided to just let themselves in sitting in my livingroom.
I dont care if you want to clean my house for next to nothing. I DIDNT INVITE YOU IN.
I have even a bigger problem when people not only sneak into the country illegaly then have the nads to start demanding rights they havent earned by comming in legally and quite simply dont deserve
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
I mowed grass to buy my first car and I did landscaping as a summer job when I was going to college. I refuse to believe that illegals are the only way this is going to get done.
Its not the illegals are the only way to do this but that the illegals are willing to do it for far less (Read less then minimum wage)
this is like an employers dream come true.
You can get a group of people to do the lowliest of tasks and you dont have to pay them even minimum wage, you dont have to worry about paying into unimployment, disability,Workmans comp,Health care Or taxes on them
And you can work them like slaves
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Was reading an article on MSN and it was talking about how Vicente Fox hopes the U.S. will reform their immigration policy and i was like wtf? You can't get your country together for a better life and so they don't have to come to the U.S. so you want big brother up north to do it for you. You know what? I say we grab control of Mexico so there are no more border disputes. We can make prisons and delicious smog producing factories down there in the center, and on the coasts we can make resorts for thousands of miles. Imagine the economic boom! It would be like Alcatraz of the desert if you were sent down there. I figure it can be divided into "Lower Texas" and "Lower California". Hell, then they would even need to go anywhere, they'd already be American citizens!
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Originally posted by Furball
why not build a wall all around mexico?
then fill it with water.. :t ;)
Sounds Good to me !
:aok
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
i say wtg to the immigrants...if you don't want them , maybe some of the people should get off their fat arses and do some of the jobs the so called immigrants do...i say the lazy and shiftless are more of a burden..
i mowed my grass today( as i always do) all i paid for was the gas and did not charge myself anything for the labor, they can't beat that price.
a one day walkout is not enough, they need to stay out a month or even better a year, that will show the stupid anglo who is boss.
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People who want to lynch the employers as the main source of the problem just don't quite get it, imo.
If you want to throw people in jail, you should first look at our elected officials who allocate funds to send illegals to school, help pay for college, medical expenses, you name it. The government is guilty of knowingly harboring and assisting illegals. And they do not enforce our existing laws.
The employer is just as much a victim as the illegal immigrant. The employer is forced to either play the game or go out of business in a lot of cases. Our government is guilty of not enforcing our laws and allowing illegals to deflate our labor prices and take the jobs that Americans would be doing if not for the flood of illegals being given the green light by our government.
It should BOTH be a felony to hire an illegal AND a felony to be in this country illegally.
No state assistance or funds should be allocated which encourage or help illegals to come here or to stay here. The money we waste on state benifits to illegals should be diverted to spending on deporting them.
That being said, I wish the illegals would stay home more often......the traffic was flowing smoothly today.
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Are you guys saying you didn't miss them? The whole point of this was so that you would miss them and demand they come back.
P.S. Why do you become a citizen if you have a baby in this country? I never got that, and it seems like it's exploited to the max by illegal aliens.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
People who want to lynch the employers as the main source of the problem just don't quite get it, imo.
If you want to throw people in jail, you should first look at our elected officials who allocate funds to send illegals to school, help pay for college, medical expenses, you name it. The government is guilty of knowingly harboring and assisting illegals. And they do not enforce our existing laws.
The employer is just as much a victim as the illegal immigrant. The employer is forced to either play the game or go out of business in a lot of cases. Our government is guilty of not enforcing our laws and allowing illegals to deflate our labor prices and take the jobs that Americans would be doing if not for the flood of illegals being given the green light by our government.
It should BOTH be a felony to hire an illegal AND a felony to be in this country illegally.
No state assistance or funds should be allocated which encourage or help illegals to come here or to stay here. The money we waste on state benifits to illegals should be diverted to spending on deporting them.
That being said, I wish the illegals would stay home more often......the traffic was flowing smoothly today.
In other words, Nukes fake grass business would fold if he paid a fair wage to a legal citizen.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
People who want to lynch the employers as the main source of the problem just don't quite get it, imo.
If you want to throw people in jail, you should first look at our elected officials who allocate funds to send illegals to school, help pay for college, medical expenses, you name it. The government is guilty of knowingly harboring and assisting illegals. And they do not enforce our existing laws.
The employer is just as much a victim as the illegal immigrant. The employer is forced to either play the game or go out of business in a lot of cases. Our government is guilty of not enforcing our laws and allowing illegals to deflate our labor prices and take the jobs that Americans would be doing if not for the flood of illegals being given the green light by our government.
Bash the employer and the government, but the consumer is yet to be bashed in this thread. Main source of money for the businesses are their customers, who willingly pay the lower price, let alone the demands for a low price. That's what makes it profitable to use illegal workers, because they're cheaper and the lower service price attracts more customers. Same thing is going on with every product that is manufactured in countries with cheap labor - you can sell products for lower price than your opposition. Eventually your opposition will be forced out of business or to compete on even grounds with you and move their production to a country with cheap labor. For the highly paid labor this means lower wages and less jobs, which in turn creates more demand for cheaper products. Rinse & repeat.
It's a rolling snowball, which doesn't stop growing until it stops from rolling. The consumers are heavily responsible for this. You are a consumer. It is you who decides what kind of service or product you buy. That creates a demand, the businesses offers you a service as you demand it. There's no such thing as cheap service or product - the price cutting has to be done somewhere in order to provide you with the lower price. Sometime, somewhere, the lower price will hit you back - was the price cheap or low?
If you don't like how the price cutting is done, then don't use the company or product. You are the source of money for the illegals.
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I agree Fishu, it's a big snowball effect and consumers play a role. It's just that most consumers are very detatched from the nuts and bolts of it all.
I gaurantee that if employers would be treated as felons for hiring illegals AND illegals were treated as felons for being here illegally, the problem would literally go away overnight. It's not just one or the other, it is both.
We need to spend money enforcing ALL of our laws and deporting illegals as they are caught. The government is unwilling to adress the problem in a serious way. Every few decades we just seem to give all the illegals amnesty (or suggest it as an answer) and then wait for it to become an issue again.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Can't say that I've noticed them being gone.
We noticed them gone at my work, the boss said that they can all go find new jobs tomorrow as far as he's concerned. He even made a list , he calls it the "need a new job cause your fired list"
By the way my boss is Latino, and has "no sympahty for anybody who enters a counrty illeagly".
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Now he has balls, I give him a WTG for standing up and having a backbone
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crap, I thought the same thing as sandman when I read Toads 1st post ...
it wasn't just the illegals that "protested" today .. my guess it was just as many legals
I still do not know what they thought walking out would do but show their arse and dis the person who pays them.. always good for ones career )
I think it didn't do anything positive for their "cause" - whatever that may be
ps
my garbage was picked up b4 noon today and I mowed my lawn last Saturday :)
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Just saw on the news that "Goya" stopped shipment of all its products in all states cept Florida and how X amound of products sat on warehouse shelves instead of being shipped.
Made me laugh.
Now they boycott to hurt themselves too. the proverbial cutting off ones own nose to spite ones face
How many people buy alot of Goya products that arent hispanic?
And in most major supermarkets around the country how much space is dedicated to Goya products?
Stores by me, maybe a 3-4 foot square area in 1 isle
Doubt the delay will even be noticed
Idiots
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I stopped by my old shop today... a boat building operation; last one on Long Island. Mostly illegals working in fiberglass layup. The layup shop was empty with the exception of the two legals.. guys that've worked there for 15 years.
Had a beer with the boss.. he was pretty annoyed. The guy has always been generous; always paid a fair wage, white, black or latino. Over the years, the layup shop has become some kinda little havana. We tossed back and forth ideas about what to do. I suggested that this was an outstanding opportunity to straighten out what could become a very expensive problem... without being a salamander. Ol Big Al want's to be everbodys friend, has always cut disadvantaged guys additional slack. He's big on self image. The crew usually took advantage, and today was no exception.
I told him to fire every guy that didn't come in today. Suggested that he let them re-apply for work and to let them know he'd accept applications with resident documentation. Told him to photo copy all the documentation and submit copies to the appropriate INS authority.. due dilligence and all. ;)
I think that's what he's gonna do.. his secretary called and said she's working up 'folders' on every one of 'em. (she was pissed, "Thanks.. havent seen yah in years and now I need a spanish dictionary!") hehehhehheheh. The bastard never listened to me when I worked for him.. lol !!
So, I did my bit on 'a day without criminal tresspassers'.
:D
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ok, lets get rid of all the illegal workforce
and when the prices of services and goods get to about double what they are now, take a guess if I'm right..
which genius that has posted so far will be able to figure out what the actual economical impact of this kind of "gun toting - blow harding " quick fix mentality will create?
ijots all of ya, cuz you guys wil be the first to stomp your feet and cry when the price of everything in the US goes through the roof... getting cheap labor to create goods in th eUS is a tradition, if it costs a buck to sell something then the smartest thing to do is make it cost 75 cents, so the ijots can buy it for 2 bucks instead of 2.25.... that is where our economy in the US is right now...
get ready to pay 4 bucks for what used to cost 2 bucks if something like this passes.... and kiss that Hummer goodbye
NwBie
its a dumb way to deal with a bad economical situation... politicians creating an economical climate... and ijots supporting it...
kee rist - Americans are ijots... and if we keep reproducing .... think of how well we will screw it up for our Grandkids... lol political economists and cow pie slinging republicans ... god help us
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There was a similar post like this before. It was closed and blocked. WHY? The "illegals" r protestin, that sounds like a big joke. There walkin off work mean while me aswell as 50 million americans between 20 and 34 are unemployed. Thats why im stuck in h2h. Im born and raised in brooklyn new yok and illegals are all over. All of them are workin but me and many other guys that i noe are just sitin wasteing away. Fine the employers heavy for useing illegals and without work they will disappear. I noe alot of businesses that make there pockets real fat useing illegals. Why would he pay an american 75 for a job when he can go to the corner and get an illegal for 35. U should dee it out here. They camp out by rent a truck places and 7 am in the morning they stand on corners on the main aves and just wait to get picked up. And on top of the 50 million unemployed how many more americans are homeless. I walk the streets of manhattan and see them sleepin on benchs and eatin garbage but these guys that jump the border illegaly work and arent sleepin on the street. If i didnt live with my mother i would be on the street aswell. Somethin needs to be done. U got them tryin to sing the nation anthem in spanish, its crazy. U sing the national athem in ENGLISH. RIght now im really editing myself cause this is a subject that gets me heated and just puts fire in my blood. I would just ship them all back and take those 50 million(and i noe theres more, 18 19 year olds need jobs too) and get them off the street and give them some work.
Alot of hispanics are mad at me and say im a racist(my skin is a cinnamon shed of brown, grandmother came here from puerto rico 60 years ago, i am an AMERICAN.......I dont fly planes in the game if it dont hav stars and strips on it). but america is for americans and people that come here live by our laws.
Funny thing is that it doesnt just hurt us it hurts mexicos economy. There tryin the revamp there counrty and need workers.
Fine the employers, arrest illegals...... i dont noe only thing i noe is that somethin needs to happen.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
The guy has always been generous; always paid a fair wage, white, black or latino. Over the years, the layup shop has become some kinda little havana.
He pays such a fair wage, the place has become a "little Havana"
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Originally posted by bkbandit
There was a similar post like this before. It was closed and blocked. WHY?
When threads degenerate to name calling, they usually are locked.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
He pays such a fair wage, the place has become a "little Havana"
The work is literally brutal. I've worked that shop for hundreds of hours.. nobody touched new molds but me. The layup shop is in a 'greenhouse'.... massive hanger-like building covered with plastic. Temps work up to over 120 degrees during the summer. The shop lead is a salvadoran, the music he plays is pure salsa. There's chickens outside the back.. **** fights on friday afternoons. It's basically 'his shop', he's been with Big Al since the start and has the last say on who works out there... Naturally, he's filled it with guys that are comfortable working in that kind of enviornment. We used to run all the new guys through that shop for two weeks.. understanding layup is critical to finish work on a boat. Luis is makin about 25 bucks an hour. Lowest paid guy in that shop (grinder) when I was there was at 12.50 an hour... and the guy was an Irishman. He's running the deck shop now. Still grinding too. ;)
But, Nuke; if yer point is ol Big Al couldn't make it with 'cheap labor' yer wrong... Big Al knows he can't make it if the boats don't float... and where the quality starts is when the layup starts.
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it'll be a sad day when the drug dealers bookies & hookers go on strike
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So Hang, you advised "Big Al" to report all his great illegal workers to the INS, and he agreed?
You say that not many people could handle the job conditions? I'm sure you are correct. At the money Al pays them, most legals would never work there under those conditions. Al would go under trying to keep up with Union pay, union demands and union workers. Of course, I'm just assuming they would be union.......maybe not.
Instead he gets good labor at below market value because he's able to hire illegals at a lower wage than a legal worker with the same skills.
The funny thing is that you took a cheap shot at my post, then hold Al up on a pedestle for hiring illegals, THEN tell Al to fire the illegals and report them to the INS.
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This might get the thread locked but I thought it a good read:
A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
An imaginary exercise.
By Tom Tancredo
What would a day without illegal aliens really be like? Let’s try to imagine it.
On May 1, millions of illegal aliens working in meat-processing plants, construction, restaurants, hotels, and other “jobs Americans won’t do” are supposed to stay home from work to show the importance of their labor to our nation’s economy. Doubtless, there will be some inconvenience if that happens, but there is another side to the story that is not being reported.
A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant 05/01
We are talking about illegal aliens, not mere “immigrants.” If legal immigrants stopped working for a day, we would miss the services of physicians, nurses, computer programmers, writers, actors, musicians, entrepreneurs of all stripes, and some airline pilots…as well as the CEO of Google. That would be more than an inconvenience, but it won’t happen because legal immigrants are not out marching angrily for rights that are already protected by our courts.
But if illegal aliens all took the day off and were truly invisible for one day, there would be some plusses along with the mild inconveniences.
Hospital emergency rooms across the southwest would have about 20-percent fewer patients, and there would be 183,000 fewer people in Colorado without health insurance.
OBGYN wards in Denver would have 24-percent fewer deliveries and Los Angeles’s maternity-ward deliveries would drop by 40 percent and maternity billings to Medi-Cal would drop by 66 percent.
Youth gangs would see their membership drop by 50 percent in many states, and in Phoenix, child-molestation cases would drop by 34 percent and auto theft by 40 percent.
In Durango, Colorado, and the Four Corners area and the surrounding Indian reservations, the methamphetamine epidemic would slow for one day, as the 90 percent of that drug now being brought in from Mexico was held in Albuquerque and Farmington a few hours longer. According to the sheriff of La Plata County, Colorado, meth is now being brought in by ordinary illegal aliens as well as professional drug dealers.
If the “Day-Without-an-Immigrant Boycott” had been held a year earlier on May 8, 2005, and illegal alien Raul Garcia-Gomez had stayed home and did not work or go to a party that day, Denver police officer Donnie Young would still be alive and Garcia-Gomez would not be sitting in a Denver jail awaiting trial.
If the boycott had been held on July 1, 2004, Justin Goodman of Thornton, Colorado, would still be riding his motorcycle and Roberto Martinez-Ruiz would not be in prison for killing him and then fleeing the scene while driving on a suspended license.
If illegal aliens stayed home—in Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, and 100 other countries—the Border Patrol would have 3,500 fewer apprehensions (of the 12,000 who try each day).
Colorado taxpayers would save almost $3,000,000 in one day if illegals do not access any public services, because illegal aliens cost the state over $1 billion annually according to the best estimates.
Colorado’s K-12 school classrooms would have 131,000 fewer students if illegal aliens and the children of illegals were to stay home, and Denver high schools’ dropout rate would once again approach the national norm.
Colorado’s jails and prisons would have 10-percent fewer inmates, and Denver and many other towns would not need to build so many new jails to accommodate the overcrowding.
Our highway patrol and county sheriffs would have about far fewer DUI arrests and there would be a dramatic decline in rollovers of vanloads of illegal aliens on I-70 and other highways.
On a Day Without an Illegal Immigrant, thousands of workers and small contractors in the construction industry across Colorado would have their jobs back, the jobs given to illegal workers because they work for lower wages and no benefits. (On the other hand, if labor unions continue signing up illegal workers, no one will be worrying about Joe Six-Pack’s loss. Sorry, Joe, but you forgot to tell your union business agent that your job is as important as his is.)
If it fell on a Sunday, Catholic Churches in the southwestern states might have 20-percent fewer parishioners at Mass if all illegals stayed home, but they would be back next Sunday, so the bishop’s job is not in danger. The religious leaders who send people to the marches and rallies will never fear for their jobs, because illegal aliens need their special “human-rights” advocacy and some priests and nuns seem especially devoted to that cause. The fact that most Catholics disagree with the bishops’ radicalism doesn’t seem to affect their dedication to undermining the rule of law.
All of this might be a passing colorful episode in the heated national debate over immigration policy if it weren’t for an odd coincidence: The immigration-enforcement agency responsible for locating and deporting illegal aliens is also taking the day off today. Of course, they didn’t call it a boycott. It is just (non)business as usual.
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lol like Carlos Mancia said if they bulid this "Berlin wall". Whos going to bulid it? hahahahahahahahah thats a great point. personaly imagrents who want to come to this country is perfectly fine when they get there license to be in this country its perfeclty fine. IMO all thoughs illegal Aliens are comming over here for a few bucks an hour just to live in our wonderful country doing all our dirty work work for us that personally none of us really want to. now i know that it is making less jobs for people. but cmon guys. none of these imagrents have a degree better a high school deploma. so its not like there going to take over a huge corpret office. plus im sure if you want a constuction job its not very hard to find one. alls im saying is maybe these illegal imagrents might be doing something good for us. you never no. just that these illegal aliens have never bombed 2 of our most important bulidings.
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Nope.. I told Al to clean house and get his employee records taken care of and explained that the guys that have been taking advantage of him he didn't need any more.
He could easily fill that shop with illegals at or well below minimum wage at any time he chose; every day. And he's been turning a blind eye to luis passing out jobs without involving Al in the interview process. And he's aware he had a problem or he wouldn't have hopped on sheril after i left to get the paperwork straight.
The national situation has proven to be a godsend to guys like Big Al.. In the past, society and the INS could give a crap about who worked in there, and he's always let his shop leads run their buildings as they wished as long as the quality was up to snuff and the boats floated out on time. Now, he's got an opportunity to sweep out the 'liabilities', remind the other shops who the hell the boss really is, and do the 'right thing' as an American and an Employer. And, he's well aware he'll have that shop staffed fully by wednesday.. by legals, at the same decent wages he was paying the illegals.
If what's going down at Al's tomorrow is repeated by a few thousand (or more) small to mid sized businesses across this county... then a 'day without illegal tresspassers' will have been a resounding American success story.
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Tom Tancredo
isn't that the incredibly bright congressman that suggested we nuke Mecca?
Gunslinger
Do you think you could come up with a list similar to that of natural born American Citizens
Lets start,
if John Wayne Gacy ......
If Jeffrey Dahmer.....
If yada yada yada
the guy is a nut.... he comes up with a list that is nothing but incendary, he has no other agenda than to get national attention.. without coming up with a realistic solution to an economical problem...
NwBie
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Nope.. I told Al to clean house and get his employee records taken care of .
The national situation has proven to be a godsend to guys like Big Al.. In the past, society and the INS could give a crap about who worked in there, and he's always let his shop leads run their buildings as they wished as long as the quality was up to snuff and the boats floated out on time. Now, he's got an opportunity to sweep out the 'liabilities', remind the other shops who the hell the boss really is, and do the 'right thing' as an American and an Employer.
God, I am glad I can go to bed laughing tonight. Thanks Hang!
Poor Al just needed a little nudge to realize that he was breaking the law. Now Al is happy, because society and the INS now seem to care about his plight.
LOL!
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Enjoy yerself tomorrow. The 'grass being greener', 'n all.
hehehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehehh eee!
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A high school dipolma is useless. U need college now. Alot of employers take advantage of these guys and pay them peanuts. Its a joke that businesses cant get by with out illegals. That means either he's lazy or a bad businesses man. I dont noe about the rest of the country but i noe about new york city. Alot of the bull**** jobs have rised there standards very high. They wanted 5 years experience for a 12.50 an hour partime inventory job in queens. Findin a construction job is everything but possible unless u noe the boss and he likes u enough to pay u. And that goes for alot of those simple joe get-by jobs. 50 million americans unemployed, theres a reason for this. A good chuck of that is due to illegals doin there job for peanuts. "they do the jobs that americans dont want to do" to me this means lazy americans. I watch employers get rich from usin mexicans, guy drives a dam $200,000 lambo but nobody other then the girl doin the paper work is a citizen.
People want to reform and even make these people citzens. What will that be like. Lets just imagine. Now they r citizens and they unionize............ demand more money and health care................. and they strike. Now what do u have, a population of employed people that r to lazy to work. What would that be now... 70 million unemployed americans. Now what.
I dont think u need to reform the immigration policy, i think u need to change that average lazy american into the the man he used to be...........not a 100 pound overwieght mcdonald eatin suv drivin too lazy to even moe his own lawn man but the man that wasnt afraid to get his hands dirty and do things for himself.
Look at all the tax dollars thrown away on people that arent even citizens. I would lov to see those tax dollars thrown into our schools, the kids in korea make our kids look like retards and we are supposed to be the last remaining super power. It be a hell of alot cheaper shippin them back.
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Originally posted by Nwbie
ok, lets get rid of all the illegal workforce
and when the prices of services and goods get to about double what they are now, take a guess if I'm right..
which genius that has posted so far will be able to figure out what the actual economical impact of this kind of "gun toting - blow harding " quick fix mentality will create?
ijots all of ya, cuz you guys wil be the first to stomp your feet and cry when the price of everything in the US goes through the roof... getting cheap labor to create goods in th eUS is a tradition, if it costs a buck to sell something then the smartest thing to do is make it cost 75 cents, so the ijots can buy it for 2 bucks instead of 2.25.... that is where our economy in the US is right now...
get ready to pay 4 bucks for what used to cost 2 bucks if something like this passes.... and kiss that Hummer goodbye
NwBie
its a dumb way to deal with a bad economical situation... politicians creating an economical climate... and ijots supporting it...
kee rist - Americans are ijots... and if we keep reproducing .... think of how well we will screw it up for our Grandkids... lol political economists and cow pie slinging republicans ... god help us
Bull****. Services would at first increase in price. But soon the jobs will start to be filled with the kids who should be there in the first place. The ones who might have had a tough break or are looking for a direction in life.
Just to save us the trouble, next time you have a thought, just let it go. You're going to strain yourself with all of this "Thinking" stuff.
Originally posted by ujustdied
lol like Carlos Mancia said if they bulid this "Berlin wall". Whos going to bulid it?
I would. I'd give you a kickass price for it and quality, too. Construction is a hard job but it's not the bottom of the **** bucket that everyone makes it out to be.
The greatest art in the world is Construction. If artists and musicians had half the skill a Carpenter or Mason or Welder had the world would be a better place.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Enjoy yerself tomorrow. The 'grass being greener', 'n all.
hehehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehehh eee!
take care of yourself, you old drunk! :D
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Originally posted by bkbandit
50 million americans unemployed, theres a reason for this. A good chuck of that is due to illegals doin there job for peanuts.
Hmmm... 50 million would be 16.9% of the population, and an even larger percentage of the workforce. The current unemployment rate is 4.7%.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant. ;)
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dont tell me that...... tell fox news. This is the number they said 2 nites ago.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
dont tell me that...... tell fox news. This is the number they said 2 nites ago.
Don't believe everything you hear on television. ;)
http://www.bls.gov/
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Not so quick Sandman. The Unemployment figures that you count are of those who are out of a job and are actively seeking another job.
So that 4.9% is the percent of americans who don't have a job, but are trying to get one.
While I wouldn't say that 16% of the population doesn't have a job, it's probably in the middle.
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Likewise, we can count stay at home moms as unemployed.
Nevertheless, methinks Fox News is pulling facts out of their rectums.
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Yes, you could. The real question is "How much of the US population is currently able to work, but does not?"
Would you count stay at home moms?
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regardless anything, giveing a teenager a part time job will get him off the street.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yes, you could. The real question is "How much of the US population is currently able to work, but does not?"
Would you count stay at home moms?
Guess it depend on how they qualify the question. Able meaning physically able or financially able. Plenty of people with moms at home simply because working to pay for childcare just sucks.
According to BLS, the U.S. had 135 million employees (not counting farm labor). That leaves another 160 million. Of that, there are about 14 million seeking employment.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The greatest art in the world is Construction. If artists and musicians had half the skill a Carpenter or Mason or Welder had the world would be a better place.
LMAO. You gotta be kidding me.
If this whole Mexican labour thing shows one thing, it's that anyone can do construction... and that it's all just a matter of who is willing to do it and for what price.
Damn...
Mexicans who have never even constructed Mechano nevermind anything else in their entire lives, and who can't even speak English, can somehow within a year seize a mightily threatening grip on the "art" that is construction...
"If artists and musicians had half the skill"..... Lol, I'm sure y'all are bracing yourselves for the armies of Springsteens, Wolf's and De Niro's poised just across the border.
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Originally posted by Nash
LMAO. You gotta be kidding me.
If this whole Mexican labour thing shows one thing, it's that anyone can do construction... and that it's all just a matter of who is willing to do it and for what price.
Damn...
Mexicans who have never even constructed Mechano nevermind anything else in their entire lives, and who can't even speak English, can somehow within a year seize a mightily threatening grip on the "art" that is construction...
"If artists and musicians had half the skill"..... Lol, I'm sure y'all are bracing yourselves for the armies of Springsteens, Wolf's and De Niro's poised just across the border.
classic!
Thanks, Nash.
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The makers and stars of shows like "Seinfield" could have saved a lot and made lots more money if they had just hired illegal writers and actors! :D
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WTF??
GIVE a teenager a job? WTF??
When the hell did it become requisite to GIVE a teenager a job? How about, give teenagers jobs when they show up for the interivew looking, talking, smelling and acting like they're employable?
Nobody wants a guy wearing makeup, waxed hair, a leather jacket, jeens down around his bellybutton with his shoes untied and a trout lure hangin off his ear delivering a pizza, son.
*sigh*
GIVE a teenager a job, my ass... yah gotta earn[/i] the damn job. Yah gotta compete for a job.
Welcome to the real world, son.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
WTF??
GIVE a teenager a job? WTF??
When the hell did it become requisite to GIVE a teenager a job? How about, give teenagers jobs when they show up for the interivew looking, talking, smelling and acting like they're employable?
Nobody wants a guy wearing makeup, waxed hair, a leather jacket, jeens down around his bellybutton with his shoes untied and a trout lure hangin off his ear deliving a pizza, son.
*sigh*
GIVE a teenager a job, my ass... yah gotta earn[/i] the damn job. Yah gotta compete for a job.
Welcome to the real world, son.
Hang speaketh truth.
It's harder to supervise a teenager than to just do the job myself.
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Is it legal for a foreigner to work in Mexico?
Yes, provided that you have the right permit. You are not permitted to travel to Mexico, enter as a tourist and seek gainful employment there. You must have the correct migratory permits to do so before you go.
Mexican Work Permit (http://www.mexperience.com/liveandwork/working_mexico.htm#IsLegal)
Read the links on Immigration etc.
Now, I have no issue with people coming here to gain citizenship. That is what this nation is founded on, and bless them for wanting a better life.
But as Vincente Fox urges the US to ease up, they have some pretty interesting standards themselves.
**
Investors
You can receive an immigration permit if you are willing to invest your capital in Mexico. You investment can be directed at industry or services, and must equal a minimum of 40,000 times the minimum daily wage in Mexico City.
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I am totally stunned by the protesters on the steps of the Capital today. Proudly proclaining their Illegal Status while Insisting they have the Right to be here. No, they have no rights in that respect. They have visitor status. They have the Opportunity to Gain Citizenship. They Gain Rights when they Become Citizens.
Has this world really gotten this crazy where we even have to Debate something as fundamental as this?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Nobody wants a guy wearing makeup, waxed hair, a leather jacket, jeens down around his bellybutton with his shoes untied and a trout lure hangin off his ear delivering a pizza, son.
Actually, that sounds kinda sexy!
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Originally posted by Mr Big
Actually, that sounds kinda sexy!
You're scaring me.
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Originally posted by Nash
LMAO. You gotta be kidding me.
If this whole Mexican labour thing shows one thing, it's that anyone can do construction... and that it's all just a matter of who is willing to do it and for what price.
Damn...
Mexicans who have never even constructed Mechano nevermind anything else in their entire lives, and who can't even speak English, can somehow within a year seize a mightily threatening grip on the "art" that is construction...
.
mexicans arnt doing "skilled labour" there moving heavy stuff from A to B and putting in nails...
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Younger kids would have a better chance to compete with out illegals. I noe what these kids do, either a paris hilton rip off or a wanna be gangsta. But maybe with with half a chance they can turn around and surprise u. U got ur 16 year old moron but u got the kids that noe how to act. But now with out a job and nothin else to do this "good" kid will eventually turn into the worst one of them all. I see these kids all the time, wants some cloths or a car and turns to crime. Give the kid a fightin chance.
Also the fact that he will act like a dam moron is the fact that his parents arent rising him right(another big problem). All im sayin is give him a chance. Whether its a young teenaer tryin to save money for a car or a guy in college(or tryin to go back like me) tryin to pay for books.
Its hard to compete with somethin that works for almost half. Im a solid 250lb ex linebacker and im still somewhat in shape and i speak ENGLISH, ur tellin me a illegal mexican is more quailifed to work at a moving company then i am.
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I've read on a few blogs that so-cal freeways are strangely... "normal"... instead of insanely overcrowded like usual. Jerry Pournelle reports that it took only 3 hrs to get from his place in San Diego back up to LA... A new world record apparently.
With results like that, I hope they stay home. The legal immigrants will eventually get back to work and people who employ illegals will either find new employees, new price points, or re-do their business model in a manner that is actually LEGAL this time. I don't feel sorry for any of them.
Nobody I know relies on illegal immigrant labor. My Dad picked fruit "back in the day" so the claims that produce prices will go through the roof are simply BS.
Boot the illegals, and the legal immigrants will find less discrimination since there will be less resentment over their presence. And fine or throw in jail any employers who gripe about their illegal employees not showing up to work.
The lazy fatprettythanges who rely on illegals to mow their lawns might actually get out and get some exercise... oh teh horrorz!
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why mow?
rent a goat.
1-800-SOB-GOAT
and it's easier to catch than a cat.
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Hmmmm...4 1/2 years after 9/11 and many billions of dollars later spent on foriegn soil, and we STILL don't have secure borders here at home??
That's what we all should be pissed about.
Secure the borders....and the problem is mitigated a great deal.
Both parties are enjoying a banner year on kool-aid sales.
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The political parties are focused 99% on re-election, not on any reasonable concern for properly governing the country. I think term limits (with certain rule-based exceptions) are the only answer.
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nash knows as much about construction as he does about the rest of America.... nothing.
The construction work illegals are doing is a joke... it takes three of em to do a job that a construction worker of 20 years ago would be ashamed of... but... they do it for 1/3 the wages and they aren't picky about little things like benifets and overtime and that kinda thing...
nope mr big... the only way to stop it is to arrest the employers. You can round up whatever dregs remain after the demand goes down to allmost nothing.
Toad... the U.S. stopped all meanigful arrests of employers in 1992
A cop will sit and watch 20 illegals pile into the back of some sleazy employers pickup at a safeway parking lot and pretend he doesn't see a thing but.... if you ride your motorcyle by him without a helmet... he will call for backup and they will run you through every background check they can think of.
A day without an immigrant? My son called it... a morning without a leafblower...
I say it didn't work good enough.... I didn't get the point... next time, make it a decade without an immigrant and see if I get it.
Those of you who think we can't live without illegals are just plain stupid and being manipulated. What the illegals give us we don't need.
lazs
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Originally posted by Nash
If this whole Mexican labour thing shows one thing, it's that anyone can do construction... and that it's all just a matter of who is willing to do it and for what price.
Yah, anyone can do it but not everyone can do it well.
There's been some recent press on just how crappy the new homes turned out by these "quick to grasp the skills required" illegals that are driving the nails in the new home industry.
But then it's not about doing it well anymore.
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Originally posted by Toad
Yah, anyone can do it but not everyone can do it well.
There's been some recent press on just how crappy the new homes turned out by these "quick to grasp the skills required" illegals that are driving the nails in the new home industry.
But then it's not about doing it well anymore.
The crappiness of the homes has nothing to do with the unskilled illegals, but the Home Building owners being cheap as dirt and skimping on many things then overcharging.
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So we presure the employers forcing illegals to go home. We then pay more for avacados and you have to mow your own damn grass and clean your own toilet. How much do think you're already paying for the invaders kids to go to your school or their health care?
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An after action report.
Don`t know if our area will ever recover from this boycott.
First thing that was immediately noticeable was...............well....... ...............nothing.
People mowed their own lawns as they usualy do. (Gasp!)
Garbage pickup was on time. (Ran by U.S. citizens)
People cleaned their own houses as they usualy do. (Another gasp)
Farmers were in the fields.
Noticed the man and two sons who run the largest steer operation in the area was out on horseback checking the stock. (As they usualy do)
The largest construction project within 25 or 30 miles was going strong when I drove through. (The contractor only hires U.S. citizens)
The grocery store was in full swing when I went to pick up a few things.
Everything seemed pretty normal.
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lukster..... bzzzzzzzt... wrong.
we jail the emplyers and the illegals stay home by choice and..... the price of avacados goes down because someone invents a picker or a sorter that allows one American to do the work of 20 former slaves.
just like tomatoes.... remember the tomato scare? what happened is that now one simple laser does the work of 40 former slaves.
It is foolish in the extreme to think that our economy depends on unskilled slave labor... that is the mistake the south made in they 1800's
and... the quality of labor for building houses is at an all time low.... even the drug addict construction workers of the 70's did a better job than the flood of illegal slaves doing it now.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
just like tomatoes.... remember the tomato scare? what happened is that now one simple laser does the work of 40 former slaves.
It is foolish in the extreme to think that our economy depends on unskilled slave labor... that is the mistake the south made in they 1800's
lazs
Rumor is I may get to drive one on a visit to my girlfriend's mom.
(http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/media/images/series/combine_cornhead_action96740.jpg)
My inner redneck has never been happier.
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i agree wit lazs, make the employer pay for it. I see them litter the streets here, start makein the employers life miserable and he'll be sendin them back him self.
Jackal certain areas r infested with illegals, just be glad ur area isnt. Walk on to a construction site in brookyln and u wont see less then 15 of them. Im pretty sure areas out there in middle america wont have a huge illegal population. BUt here in new york city its out of hand. These fat kats use them to build condos out here then they want $500,000 for a 2 room apartment and yes there built like s***.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Jackal certain areas r infested with illegals, just be glad ur area isnt. Walk on to a construction site in brookyln and u wont see less then 15 of them. Im pretty sure areas out there in middle america wont have a huge illegal population. BUt here in new york city its out of hand. These fat kats use them to build condos out here then they want $500,000 for a 2 room apartment and yes there built like s***.
Hehe. I`m in the great state of Texas. Tell me about illegals. :D
The point was I believe that the boycott accomplished one thing. They screwed themselves. :aok
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Originally posted by Nash
If this whole Mexican labour thing shows one thing, it's that anyone can do construction... and that it's all just a matter of who is willing to do it and for what price.
Obviously, you have not had a hack do any contract work on your house. Have seen many an idiot tear down a support wall
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As has already been observed, the liberals thought they had won the social war in this country simply because the silent majority was, well, silent. Those promoting these protests evidently suffer from the same delusion. Calling attention to themselves was a big mistake, for them.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The crappiness of the homes has nothing to do with the unskilled illegals, but the Home Building owners being cheap as dirt and skimping on many things then overcharging.
So you're saying that a roofing crew made up of all illegals that cant even get the shingles put on the roof straight is all about cheap Home builders?
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Yes.
They choose to design and build ****ty houses.
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we jail the emplyers and the illegals stay home by choice and
I dont believe that just jailing employers that hire illegals will solve the problem. The problem isnt just the employers. People have been coming to America looking for a better life since the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. Increase the standard of living for the average Mexican and they will have no reason to leave Mexico. Also enforce our immigration laws and the problem will be mostly solved.
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no lasersailor... many cases the illegals are incapable of doing skilled labor... their culture is so different from ours that they are untrainable in the construction field. No matter what you tell em... the minute you turn your back they are doing it wrong again.
We would be better off without the slave labor.
Indy... I get to drive a lot of really neat farm equipment on my job.
lazs
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No, you're generalizing. I've seen just as many ****ups of all different races then hispanics.
I dont believe that just jailing employers that hire illegals will solve the problem. The problem isnt just the employers. People have been coming to America looking for a better life since the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. Increase the standard of living for the average Mexican and they will have no reason to leave Mexico.
Yes, let's throw a couple billion dollars at mexico. That'll solve the problem, right? Just like every other time that throwing money at the problem has solved it, right?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yes.
They choose to design and build ****ty houses.
The house designs (only talking about houses I have helped build) arent crappy, but the quality of work that goes into them is.
Home designs have nothing to do with foundations being poured out of level, or brick columns not being laid level OR plumb.
I've seen the entire back wall of a 2 story walk-out home have to be re-sided because the siding was put on out of level and the story not matching around corners. (Home was sided the first time by a Mexican crew). I was unfortunate enough to have to help fix a pair of dormers on a home that a Mexican crew screwed up so badly that it took us 5 hours to make them look right again.
Most of the problems with new homes that I have seen are directly related to poor workmanship as oppossed to simply a crappy design.
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laser... that quote isn't mine... I FIRMLY believe that the only so0lution is to jail a few hundred employers and..
Home designs and materials are for the most part superior to those of the 60's 70's and 80's today.
The illegals do not intentionaly screw up... they simply have a different culture and training background that is difficult or impossible to overcome.
lazs
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, you're generalizing. I've seen just as many ****ups of all different races then hispanics.
Yes, let's throw a couple billion dollars at mexico. That'll solve the problem, right? Just like every other time that throwing money at the problem has solved it, right?
That isnt our problem to fix, it's Mexico's problem. I would not be opposed to the US sending financial aid to help Mexico create quality jobs.
Majority of our illegal immigrants are from Mexico, so no....I am not generalizing :)
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Originally posted by Elfie
Home designs have nothing to do with foundations being poured out of level, or brick columns not being laid level OR plumb.
Illegals probably built this. Not a plumb or level thing in the whole building.
(http://www.hohpe.com/Gregor/Travel/2002/Seattle/emp.jpg)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Illegals probably built this. Not a plumb or level thing in the whole building.
(http://www.hohpe.com/Gregor/Travel/2002/Seattle/emp.jpg)
Foundation in that building should still be level, interior walls should still be plumb. :)
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Originally posted by Toad
'Day Without Immigrants' under way (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/immigrant.day/index.html)
Well, Jeff, ol' buddy.... you'd be a whole lot unhappier if they put me in charge of enforcement.
Here you are basically admitting that you knowingly employ illegals and crying that you're losing money.
I throw your sad arse in jail and simultaneously fine you as much as the law allowed.
YOU asnd those like YOU, Jeff, are one of the, if not THE, major reason we have a problem with illegals in this country.
lol....ok quick while thier all huddled together, call the border patrol.......
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Originally posted by Elfie
The house designs (only talking about houses I have helped build) arent crappy, but the quality of work that goes into them is.
Home designs have nothing to do with foundations being poured out of level, or brick columns not being laid level OR plumb.
I've seen the entire back wall of a 2 story walk-out home have to be re-sided because the siding was put on out of level and the story not matching around corners. (Home was sided the first time by a Mexican crew). I was unfortunate enough to have to help fix a pair of dormers on a home that a Mexican crew screwed up so badly that it took us 5 hours to make them look right again.
Most of the problems with new homes that I have seen are directly related to poor workmanship as oppossed to simply a crappy design.
When you have houses being put up that were designed to rely on Drywall for structural support, you know you have a bad design...
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Originally posted by indy007
Rumor is I may get to drive one on a visit to my girlfriend's mom.
(http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/media/images/series/combine_cornhead_action96740.jpg)
My inner redneck has never been happier.
:D Can we say "Hydrostatic" children?
Smooth as an oiled baby`s behind. :D
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Originally posted by Elfie
Foundation in that building should still be level, interior walls should still be plumb. :)
In order to be plumb and or level, don't you need a straight line somewhere?
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"newton be damned! ...just another dead brit-inna-wig anyway.
WTF.. you guys on break? Nail that damnned wall up fer crisssakes...
*sigh* ...can't find any decent help these days."
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Originally posted by Toad
The whole purpose of the walkout and marches is to protest the "tough immigration laws" and make it easier to get citizenship.
So you think all those protesting already have their papers?
Landscape businesses are primary employment sources for illegals. It's possible Jeff ONLY hires legal citizens but it is extremely unlikely that that is the case.
I hope they investigate every single one of Jeff's employees and fine him according to statute if there are any that are illegal.
But then I feel that way about everyone using illegal immigrants as labor.
MSNBC had a poll: (mind you, a liberal network with a somewhat liberal viewership) 68% of those surveyed answered YES to the question of whether or not to arrest those illegals found at the protests-- Our elected leaders--in particualr, President Bush-- are ignoring public sentiment, banking on the likelihood that these non-English speaking border crossers are going to someday be voters.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
In order to be plumb and or level, don't you need a straight line somewhere?
Of course you do, it all starts with the foundation. Just because the outside of that building is completely funky w/o a single straight line anywhere does not mean the interior walls are not plumb nor does it mean the foundation looks like the exterior of the building. ;)
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
When you have houses being put up that were designed to rely on Drywall for structural support, you know you have a bad design...
I would agree with that statement.
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"Home designs have nothing to do with foundations being poured out of level,"
do you have any idea how incredibly incompetent you have to be to mess that up? they could hire the high school grade 11 class to do it, and they could do it right after a week of work!
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Originally posted by vorticon
"Home designs have nothing to do with foundations being poured out of level,"
do you have any idea how incredibly incompetent you have to be to mess that up? they could hire the high school grade 11 class to do it, and they could do it right after a week of work!
Actually no I dont. I did however work on a framing crew for some time and never once saw a foundation that was level. We always had to use shims under the bottom plates of the walls to make sure the tops of the walls (and subsequently the 2nd floor) were level.
While siding, our first row was always overlapping the foundation by one inch. The second row we leveled in and went from there. The first row of siding was never level, but needed the 1 inch overlap on the foundation.
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With all of them protestin i feel like holdin a protest to counter them. Im pretty sure we all feel the same way about just sending them back. I would support a protest against them and i would be there all the way. He have the right to protest "WE R AMERICAN" how are they protestin when they dont belong here and truly have no right to anything here. All it tooks is 2 or 3 guys and it will snow ball into millions.
I went to a deli today to get a sandwich in my system before i went to play some hand ball at the park. Of course theres a illegal mexican workin the deli so i get my sandwich and sit with my firend and eat. My friend told me that the guy has been workin there for years. His little girl come from the school down the block and was waitin for him to finish up. Now im thinkin this man is tryin to do the right thing for his family but wait................after all these years y hasnt he got his papers done to become a citizen? At that moment any type of compassion is gone. Why doesnt he get his papers, is it so hard. Theres a buch of russians that r fresh off the boat but they have there papers done, whats wrong with this picture. So we finish and head to the park and 2 blocks down we run into this kid. A good kid 16 17 years old and cant find a job to save his llife, the kid is just as desperate as me. But this is illegal is workin the deli down the block from his house.
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Write your congressmen. I just did.
http://www.senate.gov
http://www.house.gov
It's really easy to look up who your representatives are, and most (all?) have easy webmail forms you can fill out to give your opinion. The voices of the illegals are being heard, so what about your voice? Here's your chance.
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no congressman or senator is goin to do nothin. They want votes and if the head a anti illegal protest they will put them selfs at a disadvantage when it comes to elections. This is somethin that has to be started by someone else.
Look at hilary clinton, shes just takin advantage of the situation. We hav a better shot startin somethin from this thread then gettin any political help. U hav alot of news people that are anti illegal but sean hannity was to protest he would be called a rascist and might even lose his job.
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after all these years y hasnt he got his papers done to become a citizen? At that moment any type of compassion is gone. Why doesnt he get his papers, is it so hard. Theres a buch of russians that r fresh off the boat but they have there papers done,
It is hard to get papers, that's the problem. To get into the US as a legal immigrant. You have a couple of chances. One is to win a green card in the annual State Department lottery or have a direct relative living in the US or have some needed skill. I don't think the Mexican guy qualifies. If he applied for papers, he would draw attention to himself and be booted out. It's tough to become a legal immigrant to the USA.
However it is easy to be illegal. I agree with Lazs, prosecute the employers. Make an example of a few and the others will soon get the message. I don't blame the illegals themselves. They're often from very poor countries and want a better life and they go to where it can be found whether it's the USA or Europe. What's more they can get jobs when they do arrive in America because of unscupulous or careless employers. That's the problem. If they couldn't get jobs they would not go.
I believe the biggest problem is that it is very difficult to get into the US legally even for well educated, highly skilled English speaking people. It is near impossible if you are unskilled and don't speak good English. Yet people are needed for all the low paid, dirty jobs. That is the real issue. The truth is immigrants are needed in the US but at the moment most of them are illegal mainly because a blind eye has been turned and because it's so tough to become legal. Yet there are plenty of jobs for legal immigrants.
We have the same problem in Ireland at the moment. We need workers, unemployment is practically zero. There is one difference. We allow in immigrants from EU countries like Poland, Latvia etc in. They fill the jobs the Irish don't want. Over 100, 000 Poles alone arrived in the last couple of years. Without them our economy would be in trouble. We don't have many illegals either, simply because it's tough for employers to get away with it. I think the US needs something similar. A more realistic immigrant policy and enforcement against employers who exploit illegals.
Which brings me to the Irish illegals in the US. I'm afraid I have no sympathy with them. Not so may years ago it was tough to get a job here. But that has all changed. 100, 000 Poles can't be wrong! They should come home and contribute to their own country's wealth. They are needed back here.
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OOOOHHHHHHHHH the humanity!!! :cry
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060502/i/r2048252209.jpg)
-SLICER
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cpxx... exactly... the employers are just opportunist criminals and extremely cowardly.... while they don't care what happens to the country... they certainly do care about being bubbas wife for a year at some federal prison... they will stop hireing in very short order..
you are also dead on right about it not being the immigrants fault for the most part.... what are they suppossed to think? they need the work.... they come here and can carry a sign saying they are illegal if they want and no one arrests them? they get hired by every crooked gringo in sight... They know that once they are across the border the law no longer exists.
I think it is pretty inhumane the way we treat em... I think that for no other reason than that it needs to stop. It is simple defacto slavery in anyones book.
I also think that so long as they are criminals they don't deserve rights.
jail the employers of illegals.... start a guest worker program if more workers are needed. Build a wall if it makes somke people feel better even but..... it wouldn't be needed if we took care of the real problem..
the lying, crooked, scum bag, criminal, employers.
lazs
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Originally posted by eagl
I've read on a few blogs that so-cal freeways are strangely... "normal"... instead of insanely overcrowded like usual. Jerry Pournelle reports that it took only 3 hrs to get from his place in San Diego back up to LA... A new world record apparently.
With results like that, I hope they stay home.
I ran errands from North Hollywood to Pasadena, Glendale, Eagle Rock and back to NoHo. It should have taken hours, but I was home by 3:30 having a beer
Open freeways, ample parking, no noon line at the bank... I swept through Ralphs which is always a mad house. I was thinking how great LA could be if it wasn't TJ north.
It was great. Deport em ALL.
Or borrow from the French and establish an "American Foreign Legion", after 5 years military service in Iran-astan they hand you your citizenship papers.
Jobs Americans wont do?, tell an American he either goes to pick grapes or his unemployment and or public benefits end, now.
We have all seen the perfect example of the lazy american who thinks starting at the bottom is below them, "I'm not working at no Mac donalds!", or that being an US citizen means they're entitled to some form of govt relief to subsidize thier lazy arrogance.... so they work they system.
I've meet people who have lived in public housing for 4 generations, the kids grow up expecting hand outs having no idea what a hand-up looks like... they have no, or little, concept of what its like to work hard to make a living... their parent(s) never had to, their homies slang 1/2 a day and earn a months Mac Donalds salary... its an entire culture of unmotivated lazy pukes.
For these folks, no problem. You can still live in public housing... but you'll have to move to central Cali and work the vineyards. Your kids get all the same benefits as always, as long as they too work.... consider it an after school job thats earning them a free education.
There are the people that need to be hunted down and put to work, like it or not. And if they dont like it?, they're free as anyone else to go out and provide for themselves, but as long as we are providing for them, they need to earn it.
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my brother said the freeways of Las Vegas were pretty much the same way. VERY little traffic and what usually took an hour to drive took 20 minutes.
I think the average "citizen" realizes in some ways and this may have back fired on them.
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Originally posted by lazs2
cpxx... exactly... the employers are just opportunist criminals and extremely cowardly.... while they don't care what happens to the country... they certainly do care about being bubbas wife for a year at some federal prison... they will stop hireing in very short order..
you are also dead on right about it not being the immigrants fault for the most part.... what are they suppossed to think? they need the work.... they come here and can carry a sign saying they are illegal if they want and no one arrests them? they get hired by every crooked gringo in sight... They know that once they are across the border the law no longer exists.
I think it is pretty inhumane the way we treat em... I think that for no other reason than that it needs to stop. It is simple defacto slavery in anyones book.
I also think that so long as they are criminals they don't deserve rights.
jail the employers of illegals.... start a guest worker program if more workers are needed. Build a wall if it makes somke people feel better even but..... it wouldn't be needed if we took care of the real problem..
the lying, crooked, scum bag, criminal, employers.
lazs
The first problem is that our government doesn't enforce our immigration laws. Our Government and law enforcement, by not enforcing the laws against hiring illegals AND against being in the country illegally, has basically said it's okay to hire illegals and that it's okay to come across the border for jobs that "no one" else will do, which is bs.
The people that come across the border illegally are also "criminal scumbags" who knowingly are breaking the law. To hold them blameless is not being rational. They certainly are not slaves being forced to cross the border at gunpoint, then forced to stand on the street waiting for the scumbags ( or, person who is giving them the job they came here for) to run them off to the slave labor camp.
Punish employers and start deporting anyone illegally here and start enforcing our laws. Don't give any illegal one penny of our taxpayer's money to do ANYTHING other than get carted home ASAP.
Another thing. Pass a law that says if you get caught in the country illegally, you can NEVER become a US citizen. Second time caught here, off to prison camp.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
Second time caught here, off to prison camp.
Thought you didn't want to waste one penny of taxpayers' money on them?
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(http://www.usagc-green-card.org/images/large_green_card.jpg)
hook one of these to a fishing wire:lol
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cpxxx unemployment isnt zero here. And it cant be that hard to get ur papers, look at allllllllllll the russians we got here in new york as well as all of the middle eastern people here and u still got a large population of chinese. And all of them hav there papers. The mexicans are the only ones that have a illegal population here in new york. I speak english......a high school diploma........and i was bron and raised in new york city.....but i sit in the park unemployed. Im not a small or weak guy and on my worst day should always hav the option to do a meat head job. I noe russains that came other here with out family or anythin in this country. Father drives a cab and there mother works at a nail salon and they work hard and pay taxes. Y cant the mexicans do it.
If there was a zero or 2 % unemployment rate then i wouldnt mind a guess worker program or other things of that nature. BUt me aswell as many other americans are sitting on our tulips wasteing away and just being plain fustrated at the fact that they cant make a dime. I dont noe about other states but here in new york u either noe somebody that can get u a job or u dont work. Employers set there standards so high that a simple job like checkin inventory in a warehouse needs 5 years experience.
Mr. big i couldnt u couldnt have said it better. Useing our tax dollars on people that r here illegaly is ridiculous. This money should be spent on our schools and health care for us AMERICANS. Bush has to send them back and stop tryin to please the liberals. The people that want to keep the illegals are the fat business men that dont worry about bills.
x0847Marine another man that speaks the truth. I c all these protect guys out here and the do the same. They collect hand outs(our tax dollars) sell drugs and live better then me. Then they say america is holdin them down. Lazy america needs a kick in the ass. A moving job were im liftin all day would do me just fine. If i work that and go to school then i hav a base to work from. Then if i work hard i can turn into something. Thats how america used to be according to wat these old men tell me.
x0847marine and mr.big lets protest them.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Actually no I dont. I did however work on a framing crew for some time and never once saw a foundation that was level. We always had to use shims under the bottom plates of the walls to make sure the tops of the walls (and subsequently the 2nd floor) were level.
i worked doing foundations for a short time...it requires a fair bit of incompetence to make a foundation unlevel, since the bottom is level, as is the top- where the tops of the forms for the footing are was determined by laser rig (and usually confirmed later with spirit level), and the ladders are leveled with spirit level before being nailed, so even if there was some sag or rise at one point near the bottom, it would be evened out there, or at least theoreticly, those spirit levels arnt known for being perfectly accurate...
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Originally posted by bkbandit
x0847marine and mr.big lets protest them.
Amen brother.
The hispanic illegals who come here willing to work totally lack the lazy American DNA strand thats evolved into generations of people. Where they come from, at best, the Govt will give you a boot in the eye. No work, no eat...
Then take a walk around the US PJ's one day, the most well fed non working mofos on the planet... there's even a name for it, chicks from the PJs who have a fatass = "Welfare spread". Also in the PJs you'll find thousands of able bodied young americans milling about with no job who could easily be picking grapes, bussing tables or whatever.
Oh wait, I'm sure someone would call that racist... it's best we pay them to just hang out.
Of course if you even suggest that they to get off their beer drinking lazy rump and pick grapes, they'd protest... working in the dirt might soil their bling and designer clothes.
Some dude with section 8 moved in to my apt complex, he pays a fraction of the rent I do, he has a county provided maid that comes daily to walk his dogs and dust off his big screen tv... I watch him hang out all day doing nothing. If he can lift a beer can, he can pick a grape.
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mrbig... I have no problem with arresting the illegals and with not giving them one cent in benifiets especially schooling but.... they are only here because we hire them.
They would not come here if we didn't. Putting the employers in prison is the most effective way of shutting off the tap. to arrest the illegals is to bail the basement with a teacup while leaving the tap open.
As for services.... we are a compassionate country... angry right now but still.... compassionate... who amoung us is gonna throw the sick or injured illegal child or mother out of the emergency room waiting room?
I do agree that it would not be a bad idea to get the word out that continued infractions of the border would result in permenant ban from citiaenship..
As for who is the real criminal? well... the illegals are criminals but they aren't as big a criminals as the employers in my book... the employers do it to leach off of all of us... the illegals do it to keep their families from starving.
To think that you can keep out illegals so long as the jobs are here for them is ludicrous. To look the other way while the landscaper you hired has four illegals working on your property is the hight of hypocracy.
lazs
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WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
By Frosty Wooldridge
February 27, 2006
NewsWithViews.com
As a teacher, I sat dumbfounded last May 16, 2005, when the Rocky
Mountain News inked a story, "What Happened?" to a stunned Denver,
Colorado audience. In a five year study starting in 1999 in Denver
Public Schools, 5,663 students started the eighth grade. Five years
later, only 1,884 graduated from high school. That's a 65 percent drop
out/flunk out rate! That's pathetic, if not frightening.
What was the cause? First of all, 30,000 illegal aliens, speaking 40
different languages, attended Denver schools. Our classrooms suffered
thousands of kids functionally illiterate in English with parents
functionally illiterate in English and Spanish. The classrooms featured
so much incompatible diversity that it created horrific tension,
stabbings and death. Thus, American kids suffered a profoundly
dumbed-down educational process. One in five teachers quit or
transferred out of those Denver classrooms every nine month cycle
during those five years.
Last week, the Denver Post announced that 30 percent of teachers in
Denver schools were not coming back next year. This is a nationwide
travesty. Why? As a teacher, I taught in the inner city in the 1970s.
It's exasperating beyond understanding to walk into a classroom where
children suffer learning disabilities, broken homes, teen pregnancies
at 14, 15, 16, multiple languages and violent confrontations with other
ethnic groups. It's impossible to teach. I left my idealism in the
ghetto and escaped to a suburban school. But, today, teachers can't
escape because over 1.5 million illegal alien students with more than
100 languages attend our kids' schools nationwide. We witness a
national breakdown in education. Last week, Superintendent Roy Romer of
Los Angeles public schools resigned in frustration and defeat.
California schools match the violence of a war zone.
Can you imagine such a failure rate across the country? Can you
imagine the consequences of an illiterate generation leading this
Republic into the 21st century? Folks, this country won't make it.
Where is the outrage?
It takes four aspects for a free and democratic society to maintain
itself. It requires a highly educated population that can write, read,
think and vote intelligently. It takes a similar moral code whereby
everyone adheres to the common good. It requires a similar code of
ethics whereby citizens adhere to honesty, doing what is right and
maintaining those ethics throughout the social fabric. Finally, it
takes a similar language that allows citizens to discuss, debate and
resolve problems. We compromise all four with an invasion exceeding
four million new people into the USA annually—20 million illegals to
date and climbing. We allow the disintegration of our nation without a
whimper. Where is the outrage?
Last Monday, February 20, 2006, the Rocky Mountain News reported,
"Mile-High Drug Hub" making Denver the leading center for drug
distribution in the United States. It's part of MS-13 Gang's dispersal
of $128 billion in drugs crossing our border with Mexico every year.
Ironically, Congress guards South Korea's border with 37,000 troops
with our billions in tax dollars, pats down gray-haired ladies at our
airports, spends $80 billion annually on the war on drugs, but leaves
our border unguarded allowing that $128 billion in drugs to cross year
after year. Additionally, terrorists from any country can walk over the
Mexican border with a 99 percent chance of succeeding. Where is the
outrage?
With a growing illegal alien population exceeding 300,000 in
Colorado, the state House legislators on Wednesday of last week
defeated six bills to stop illegal alien migration. One particular
bill, HB 1134, would have given cops the ability to arrest, detain and
deport illegals. It was soundly defeated after dozens of citizens,
including this Coloradan, testified to support the bill's passage.
I demanded, "We are tired of being collateral damage for illegal
aliens. We're tired of being raped, killed, robbed and our schools
being trashed by multiple languages while our medical systems take
better care of illegals than our own citizens."
Representative Francesca Natividad Coleman remarked that it was a
Federal issue. I retorted, "We're the ones getting killed and raped
here locally and we're tired of it." Last year, three Coloradans were
killed by illegals; Greeley, Colorado suffered 270 hit and run car
accidents alone; eight rapes by illegal aliens in Boulder and thousands
of robberies. Where is the outrage?
To top off the crisis in our Denver schools, the Rocky Mountain News
reported the next day, February 21, 2006, "Welfare Surges 45%" with an
increase of 4,743 cases. They said it was tough job hunting, but
neglected to mention that 300,000 illegal aliens in Colorado stole jobs
from Coloradans in every sector: drywall, construction, landscaping,
fast food, house painting, janitorial, paving and dozens of other jobs
formerly worked by Coloradans. Where is the outrage?
Denver Mayor Hickenlooper hired illegal aliens long before he was
mayor and one of his illegal employees, Raul Gomez-Garcia, killed
Denver police officer Don Young last May. Hickenlooper stood in direct
violation of federal laws and could have been fined $2, 000.00 per
illegal alien hired (estimated at 70 working in his restaurants) and he
could have gone to prison for five years. Governor Owens actually
endorsed a booklet showing illegal aliens how to imbed themselves in
Colorado. He aided and abetted illegal aliens, but didn't receive a
slap on the wrist. Where is the outrage?
Since it's happening in my state with 300,000 illegal aliens, can
you imagine what is happening in California with three million? Or,
North Carolina with one million? How about Illinois with one million
illegals? How about Texas with 1.5 million? I know Texans pay over $4.1
billion annually for educating their massive load of student illegals.
Where is the outrage?
We're being colonized with over nine million illegal alien Mexicans
crashing our schools, medical systems, language, culture, parks, tax
and welfare systems. One look at the headlines of major newspapers
across the country echoes and mirrors the Rocky Mountain News. Where is
the outrage?
It stupefies me beyond comprehension that Americans sit back and
watch this invasion of their country without any outrage. Worse,
without any response! More than that--without a concern for their own
kids' future! Even more horrific, the line of immigrants from Mexico
(and the world) shows no sign of stopping, as the number of Mexicans
grows from their current 106 million to 200 million in this century.
As I open this can of worms weekly; as I expose this accelerating
national crisis weekly; as you experience its quickening day by day—I
would think the outrage would reach fantastic levels. But it is not! In
fact, Bush, Congress and governors of all 50 states—not only watch it
happen—they actively aid and abet it. Arlan Specter of Pennsylvania
wants to add another one to two million legal immigrants annually.
Senators John McCain and Ted Kennedy want to give amnesty to 20 million
illegals and add more in a guest worker program. Utah's Chris Cannon
welcomes millions of Mexicans as he encourages their takeover of our
country. His sidekick Senator Orrin Hatch mirrors that sentiment.
Representative Joe Baca of California actively promotes the takeover of
California by Mexico as he endorses "Reconquista of Aztlan." As Mark
Twain said, "Suppose you were an idiot; and suppose you were a member
of Congress; but then, I repeat myself." Twain got it right, but where
is the outrage?
While 85 to 95 percent of the American public wants our borders
secured, they stand around quietly sucking their thumbs while doing
nothing. However, the outrage and arrogance of millions of illegal
alien migrants in America advances like Paris, France's recent
experience with immigration—10,000 fire bombed cars and a month-long
conflagration! We watched stupidly as if it won't happen to us. Think
again! Of the thousands of emails I receive, the worst and the most
frightening ones are from citizens who tell me, "Keep your powder dry!"
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You guys realize that vouchers would get rid of the illegal alien problem in schools along with making us a better educated country. I wonder how much more worse the public school system and it's teachers union have to get before even brainwashed Americans watching reality shows and "love a teacher" comercials will get it?
The day without a leafblower should have been a godsend... the incompetent public school teachers have been blaming everyone and everything in the world for their failure to teach for years...
Their current pet excuse (besides not getting enough money for their part time job) is that the classes are too large...
Day without a leafblower should have lowered the size of the classrooms considerably and allowed them to really show their stuff...
Oh... and kids staying out of school to protest? Hell....if you told em it was "end womens sufferage day" and it meant they could not show up for class you woulda got the same attendance rate as leafblower day.
lazs
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Mars!!!! :aok
Its all coruption...as I said many times before...Illegals are getting paid less=more profits=high stock prices=the rich get richer and the poor poorer
I watched T.V. last night about Our big mighty military...Bless them all.. but while we are pumping billions of dollars in the military our country crumbles from within...kinda like what happened to the Romans
Our goverment does'nt care about us they care about lining thier pockets
I listen to alot of political programs, just once I'd like to here solutions instead of what the problems are!!!
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There's plenty of outrage mars01. It was even recently expressed in the house. Our senate squashed their bill flat with people like Hillary Clinton calling tougher laws on those helping illegals unamerican. The democrats are making a huge mistake by siding with these illegal aliens. While the republicans aren't a lot better they have at least made an attempt to reform the situation. We really need someone like Tom Tancredo of Colorado in the White House.
http://tancredo.house.gov/press/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=1189
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Mars!!!! :aok
Its all coruption...as I said many times before...Illegals are getting paid less=more profits=high stock prices=the rich get richer and the poor poorer
I watched T.V. last night about Our big mighty military...Bless them all.. but while we are pumping billions of dollars in the military our country crumbles from within...kinda like what happened to the Romans
Our goverment does'nt care about us they care about lining thier pockets
I listen to alot of political programs, just once I'd like to here solutions instead of what the problems are!!!
Its too late to do anything about Illegals...there are too many here now and our goverment wanted it that way, they are in our goverment offices the are voters and of all things my own religious faith backs them
There are too many people that are making lots of money and these issues dont concern them...they are making big money..send thier kids to private schools....they dont care....but watch what happens when this effects thier lives...it will be a whole different ball game...but by then it will be too late!!!
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The small businesses are the ones hiring the illegals not the big, rich companies. It's not about "the rich getting richer" for the small comapanies who hire the illegals.......mostly for labor.
Laz, I have always said that we need to both punish employers AND punish/deport anyone caught here illegally. Both.
I still say that the small businesses ( one's requiring low-skill labor) are just as much victims as the illegals, and it's ALL because the laws are not being enforced.
The small business trying to stay alive is screwed by the government allowing illegals to flood in, take jobs and LOWER wage prices to the point that certain businesses are just screwed out of the market unless they play the same game as their competition. In most cases, I'd say that the people hiring the illegals are very small and just trying put food on their families tables as well.
The real problem is our government ignoring the problem, as usual.
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Its true i struggle to pay rent but these project guys have jordans. If america keeps goin like this it wont last long. Were roitin from inside. I had a conversation today and came to the same conclusion. Everybody is quick to complain but dont want to do a thing. I ran the idea about protestin these illegals and ill i got was a bunch of i dont noes and a bunch of what abouts. I see it in my generation that this lazy s**T is runing wild. They ***** but dont want to lift a finger. Somethin got to give, why is my tax dollars goin into the pocket of some lazy bastard that dont do anythin for this society and then has the nerve to complain. I would either cut welfare and all other types of public assistance or regulate it in a way that doesnt let u live on it for ur entire life. Give public assistance for a max of 5 years and make u find a job. I rather the goverment use tax dollars to send people to college(i would love some of that) then to let them hang out all day.
Nobody in the media is takin a stand and pushin towards a solution with this illegal problem. I understand why, im pretty sure the first person that says straight out "america is for us citizens, send them back" will be labeled a racist. I think that is very sad. I cant speak my mind about things of this nature cause u will have 50 different organizations lookin to make u out to be a villian.
Jail the employers, search for and arrest illegals(there not hard to find here, if u paid me 20 bucks a illegal i would be driveing a new zo6 next week). And when i say arrest i dont mean lock them up and use tax dollars i mean finger print them and ship them back, ban them from the US for good or at least 5 years. PLus mexico is tryin to reestablish there economy and could use the labor. I noe guys that run land scapin companys and use illegals when there are a bunch of healthy young teenage americans that could use a job. No wonder the US as a country is so fat, y do anything when u could pay an illegal to do it.
The poor get poorer the rich get richer. In 1998 i was middle class now its a struggle. And im not the only one. At this rate by 2020 we will be livein in clans in huge slums.
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I agree with lazs and others......jail, fine, confiscate the businesses......do whatever it takes to make the employers aware that the type to stop hiring illegal's is NOW, and keep it up, let everyone know you are watching them from here on out.
Get positive ID via fingerprint, DNA, whatever method it takes, on the illegals, ship them to the US/Mexico border, give em a choice of helping to build not one, but TWO walls, with a no man's land in between......and if they refuse, they are persona non grata, PERIOD, no appeal, for a minimum of five years.
Last.......I love kids, but dang it all.........sit and talk to some of these folks and they will almost giggle at how ridiculous it is, but if they have a child born within our country, they automatically get to stay. It is a game to them........sneak in, get knocked up, have a baby, get to stay, or as one Hispanic group leader said on TV the other night, "beat the system".
Repeal or modify the 14th Amendment to make it where only children born in the US to LEGAL citizens get automatic citizenship. Make it where they dont have that automatic anchor that keeps them from ever being deported and see how many of them want to come here still. There are folks coming over here to work, spitting out a couple kids, then teaching said child about their Mexican heritage, NOT their AMERICAN heritage.
If you wanna come here to make a better life, come legally, embrace the American way of life and American heritage and traditions, not hold on to the old country. In my eyes, that is one of the most significant differences in the immigrants of old and the ones we see today.
Case in point..........
Buddy of mine works up in Liberal, KS at National Beef, where the workforce is made of mainly Hispanic workers.
He lives in Oklahoma, little tiny town, and a lot of the workers live there too. One of his best friends there came over illegally about 25 years ago, but became a legal US citizen several years back.
He talked to several of the illegals about becoming legal citizens or workers and, to a man, they all replied 'screw that, I'm Mexican, I don't want to be an American!"
He is as fed up with the crap as any natural born American citizen, probably even more so.
I wanted to buy the man a beer when he told them "then get the f*** out of my country and go back to Mexico"............
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Happy Cinco De Mayo. :D
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mrbig.... you are wrong.. the small business owner that hires illegals may be doing it because "everyone else is doing it" but... he is a criminal that is causeing the flood tide and....
If you jail a few of the cowardly leaches then the others will fold like a cheap card table under a fat lady at the thought of spending a year being someones girlfriend in federal prison and then the rest of the pooooor "victim" employers can make an honest buck without stealing from the rest of us and behaving like common drug dealers and dealers in stolen property or.... slave owners.
If you are a business owner with illegals then you are immoral. Unless of course you are some sort of freedom fighter for free borders.
If you are a small business owner hireing illegals then you have no right to complain about the problem.
I would also say that it should be that a child born in the U.S. is not a citizen unless one of his parents is... They law allready is that the parents can stay till the child is 18 then they must go... that is fair but unenforced.
The democrats stopped all enforcement of the law jailing employers in about 1992... It was a "governmment program" that they felt did not need to be funded. I do not expect liberal democrats to do much about it now.
lazs
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One question for you: WHO will enforce these laws?, jail the employers and all that?
Local police departments here in Cali are forbidden, via policy, to get involved in immigration issues. LAPD / LASD you name it will do nothing even if you report the crime to them.
The Feds should allow states to enforce the laws and protect its own borders using the National Guard, or get serious about it and form a branch of the military like the Coast Guard that borrows from all branches and takes care of all things border security.
I'd have no problem with state side Marines protecting our borders rather than spending 3 months at the Stumps training. Cobras have all the wazoo night vision technology to spot little runners, MPs can wisk them away.
Military surgeons work at County USC hosp, medics with fire depts... the Feds have a massive trained man power resource they can throw at the border, but dont.
It will take some a-hole smuggling a suitcase nuke across the Mexico border, then blowing up los angeles (no real loss) before the moron politicians decide it might be a good idea to protect ourselves better....oh and we can take better care of that illegal alien thing too.
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by that way...
Running a small business here in Los Angeles is a red tape / permits needed disaster... on top of the additional taxes / insurance businesses pay. You try hiring a legit employee after the local & state govt has sucked you dry.
Its not easy, or cheap.
Starbucks and 7-11 would just love it if they started going after small time employers, jailing the mom and pop competition.
I am all for enforcing the laws on the books, but the red tape and death of a 1000 permit paper cuts local govts have in place need to compensate so hiring illegals isn't their best option.
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See Rule #7
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xmarine.... let me ask you this....
Who will round up all the illegals and send them back to mexico? Who will build a wall for hundreds or thousands of miles?
What the hell do you mean "who"??
you hire more immigration officials but instead of having em patrol the border like little dutch boys with their finger in the dike or having em round up 12-30 million illegals like trying to hold water in your cupped hands...
you have em visit some criminal frigging employers office.... flash a badge and look at the books... if they don't like what they see they have the power to arrest... If the books are good but the scum bag is hiding the fact he has illegals... you watch his jobs... real hard eh? You have TV campains and get angry Americans to snitch off the scumbags....
Cops.... sheesh... cop car watches 10 illegals pile into a pickup truck and does nothing.... guy goes by on a motorcycle without a helmet and they call for backup and 5 cop cars are there in a few minutes and they do backgrounds on the guy all the way back to the mayflower...
If we are that broke..... fire some helmet law enforcers and hire some immigration suits.
My guess is tho that the 4-10 billion a year some states save just in educating illegals will more than pay for a few immigration officials.
It's not like it is a difficult or dangerous job rounding up pasty white leaches and slavers.
What was your solution again?
lazs
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With all that money spent on illegals u could do ALOT of things. Nobody want to look for illegals, ill do it:D . That will create plenty of new jobs even if its just temporary. Mexicans will run straight back to mexico when they see me coming. Give me a badge, an unmakred impala and let me work. And pretty sure a few 100 guys in each state doin this type of thing will save ALot of tax dollars. Ill clean out brookyln by myself by the end of the summer. Send these tax dollars on education, i still cxant get over the fact that compared to the rest of the world our kids are stupid. Cancel shows like andy milonakus, its killin our kids. That and some freakin parnetin. Im 20 years old and times when i sit in the park relax and have a smoke i end up haveing to try to teach these kids how to behave. When u hav 5 year old walkin around tellin his mother to go f herself somethin is wrong. I would hav got my bellybutton beat if i tryed that.
Its true police here see 20 of these illegal mexicans in the back of a f150 and just keep on drivein by. Instead of having bounty hunters make illegal hunters. Ill do it. Once the illegals noe theres a organization that is lookin speficaly for them they will lieave in a hot flash.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
I'd have no problem with state side Marines protecting our borders rather than spending 3 months at the Stumps training.
Unfortunately, that was already tried and the result was the Marines shooting and killing a 17 year old goat herder.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by bkbandit
With all that money spent on illegals u could do ALOT of things. Nobody want to look for illegals, ill do it:D . That will create plenty of new jobs even if its just temporary. Mexicans will run straight back to mexico when they see me coming. Give me a badge, an unmakred impala and let me work. And pretty sure a few 100 guys in each state doin this type of thing will save ALot of tax dollars. Ill clean out brookyln by myself by the end of the summer. Send these tax dollars on education, i still cxant get over the fact that compared to the rest of the world our kids are stupid. Cancel shows like andy milonakus, its killin our kids. That and some freakin parnetin. Im 20 years old and times when i sit in the park relax and have a smoke i end up haveing to try to teach these kids how to behave. When u hav 5 year old walkin around tellin his mother to go f herself somethin is wrong. I would hav got my bellybutton beat if i tryed that.
Its true police here see 20 of these illegal mexicans in the back of a f150 and just keep on drivein by. Instead of having bounty hunters make illegal hunters. Ill do it. Once the illegals noe theres a organization that is lookin speficaly for them they will lieave in a hot flash.
How about getting yourself an education so you won't have to worry about an illegal getting hired over you. Honestly, if you interviewed for a job and didn't get it because an illegal got it instead, I would think that would be a good wake up call to brush up on your job interviewing skills.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
How about getting yourself an education so you won't have to worry about an illegal getting hired over you. Honestly, if you interviewed for a job and didn't get it because an illegal got it instead, I would think that would be a good wake up call to brush up on your job interviewing skills.
ack-ack
Or that he wanted at least minimum wage to do the same work so the employer decided to take the illegal because he could pay him far less.
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Ack- Ack give me the money to pay for school and ill gladly go. And there are no interviews, i cant get my foot in the door when the illegals work for half of the money. And i talk to employers and they tell me straight up, i cant really hire u and ur friends cause i can make way more useing these mexicans. I cant get mad at them cause there just doin whats is best for them even though its freakin illegal.
Ack-Ack pay my bills and college tution and i will gladly go. I dont collect no dam public assitance. Theres a whole bunch of guys here that cant get back in to school not because they are dumb but becuase they aint got the money.
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Report them to the dept of labor
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
How about getting yourself an education so you won't have to worry about an illegal getting hired over you. Honestly, if you interviewed for a job and didn't get it because an illegal got it instead, I would think that would be a good wake up call to brush up on your job interviewing skills.
ack-ack
huh? They work for next to nothing, that's what gets them hired. They had a big write up in the local paper about illegals hanging on street corners and getting picked up for daily work. Alot of the time the contractor will stiff them and there is nothing they can do about it(who they gonna complain to?).
What it does is undermine the legit business. They throw in low bids for jobs cause they pay next to nothing for labor. I am with Lazs on this one, prosecute the business hiring the illegals, put them out of business.
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I'm with Lazs on punishing the people who hire the illegals. Funny thing is that Lazs doesn't seem to want it to work both ways.
What are all those illegals standing on the corner doing? They don't have jobs. They need to be arrested and deported. Lazs seems to think of them as victims.
We have a new law in here in Maricopa county ( most of Arizonans reside in maricopa county)
It is now a felony to be caught smuggeling people across the border AND that ALSO applies to the people being smuggled as well. They get those people on conspiracy to smuggle themselves!
If the whole country had this law and enforced it, how many illegals do you think you'd see standing on the street looking for work?
ALL the laws need to be enforced. Screw the scumbag, sleazy, unlawful illegal alien and anyone who hires them or supports them.....including any government agencies.
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If i get my hands on a camera i will take a picture of them standin in bunchs on street corners and at rent-a-truck places. These illegals arent victims cause theyare aware of what there doin.
Give lazy welfare collectin america a kick in the bellybutton and make them work.
The fact that there smugglin people in to the country puts me at alert, i live in nyc and dont need no more terror attacks. Im tired of walkin down the street and seein police in full gear with assualt rifles. We need to protect our borders to the south aswell as the north.
Again a want to thank skuzzy for lettin this thread continue without lettin it be edited. U never noe, this thread can be what startes the chain reaction that makes a difference.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
What are all those illegals standing on the corner doing? They don't have jobs. They need to be arrested and deported. Lazs seems to think of them as victims.
Not victims, just doing what they can to survive, as anyone would. If they knew they couldn't be hired as illegals they wouldn't be there. The reason they stand there as illegals is someone will hire them, and that is the problem.
Try, if you can, to walk a mile in their shoes. If you lived across the border and had no money, and were desperate for money to support your family, and knew just across the border their were contractors just waiting to hire you, what would you do?
Desperate people do desperate things. We are all the sons and grandsons of desperate immigrants, who came here with nothing but the clothes on their backs and hopes and dreams of a better life. Alot of us seem to forget where we came from.
Two things, enforce the law on business who hire the illegals, round up every illegal, one by one, deport him and take someone from the list who has applied to legally work here and put him in the job the illegal was working.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Two things, enforce the law on business who hire the illegals, round up every illegal, one by one, deport him and take someone from the list who has applied to legally work here and put him in the job the illegal was working.
I agree 100%.
Also feel that the people coming here are doing what any person would do under the same conditions. These people are hard workers and they are good people.
It's sad that the world is so unfair, but it is what it is. Our country needs to be secured. We do a lot to help people, but we need to have a secure border AND then figure out how best to manage this problem.
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Wait a second.
U cant compare the big immigration surge decades ago to now. I understand what there tryin to do and im not some type of monster that wants to see people suffer. But what about the unemployed americans and what about our homeless people. I see a bunch of homeless in nyc that live in the streets, why cant i give this guy a job. A friend of mine noes a another guy that owns a business. I think it was a real estate place but anyway, bum comes up to him and says please i need work im starving, the boss hires him to do maintence now and the guy has somewhere to live. We have to take care of our own before we open our arms. Instead of givein the guy a hand out on thanksgiving i rather give him the means to support him self. Bring down the unemployment rate and take the homless off the street ad i wont have a problem. I would be tryin to get them green cards.
We live in the united states of america and we shouldnt have people that are homelss or unemployed. This is a country that if u hav the desire to be great nothin can hold u back. But now unemployment is all over, are childerns education is mediocre and nobody here can simply agree on anythin to get somethin done. The fact is it should hav never got to this point, this thread shouldnt exist, our elected officals arent doin there job. U cant blame bush alone becuase that not fair, he's one man. Theres all types of different department that are supposed to handle ther end but now they stay quiet and everybody point that finger at bush. Like the big hurri that hit new orleans, nobody said nothin to the mayor everybody jumped on bushs ass. I remember the terror attack on 9/11, nobody here liked Guiliani but the way he steped up and took charge of the city changed everyones mind. Bush isnt the best but nobody around him is helpin him neither. Our elected officals are sittin on there hands, someone needs to stand up and do whats right. They need a good swift kick in the ass.
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I have often thought about filming a drive by any local Home Depot here. I think most people on the bbs would be amazed at the blatant mass of illegals begging to jump into any p/u truck passing by.
I don't think that most people understand the scope of the problem in our border states, nevermind the whole "enchilada"
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Originally posted by Mr Big
I have often thought about filming a drive by any local Home Depot here. I think most people on the bbs would be amazed at the blatant mass of illegals begging to jump into any p/u truck passing by.
I don't think that most people understand the scope of the problem in our border states, nevermind the whole "enchilada"
Just curious...
How many of the American "homelss or unemployed" that bkbandit speaks of will your video show?
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Originally posted by Nash
Just curious...
How many of the American "homelss or unemployed" that bkbandit speaks of will your video show?
probaly none. not pulling your leg.
If I went downdown, I could find maybe a few.
You'd be amazed Nash.
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where's michael moore when yah need him?
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Originally posted by lazs2
xmarine.... let me ask you this....
Who will round up all the illegals and send them back to mexico? Who will build a wall for hundreds or thousands of miles?
What the hell do you mean "who"??
Yes, "who" considering police & Sheriffs dept in California are forbidden to get involved in immigration issues. When the INS did a raid to free some slaves, my dept stood by 1/2 mile away and did nothing, per policy... and thats typical.
That also means the local attorneys & DAs office DO NOT prosecute FEDERAL immigration laws in local courts.
So we are left with the Feds, and only the Feds.
Politicians / community activist pukes argue if illegals fear a local uniform officer can deport them, they wont report being victims of crimes, ergo will be easy targets for criminals. They will also fight like hell, run, and take more drastic measures to avoid arrest, even for minor infractions which politically motivated police associations will tell you results in more cops being hurt.
Nobody knows better where the illegals are than the local beat cops, and they are forbidden to assist the Feds in any way re: immigration... cant even share info openly.
While I am all for locking them all up, the Feds dont have the law enforcement / court resources to get the job done right, and its just felony stupid to exclude the state sworn police from helping... but thats our country.
Before you can start throwing the book at people, things need to change and/or be done a-lot differently because the current set up will choke. Getting to trial on immigration issues could take 3 to 5 years in the very slow moving Fed court system.
If its gong to be the Feds, deploy the military at the border and free up the INS agents to go after employers in state or fed court... or create a separate immigration court. I'd rather pay a battalion of Marines to train at the border than a few hundred miles north in the Stumps.
Or maybe the Feds should let the State protect their own border, perhaps using National Guard or creating a new State police agency to focus on nothing but immigration... although any idea of state sworn officers patrolling the border will be met with bigtime opposition.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
You'd be amazed Nash.
It doesn't surprise me, actually.
The homeless in NYC that bkbandit was talking about are way beyond gone. It's sad, but it's a constant, in that every society in every century has a set of people that just aren't equipped to deal. They were there 2,000 years ago, and they will be amongst us 2,000 years from now. It's less about motivation and will than it is about mentality and circumstance. It really doesn't add anything to the immigration debate to make mention of them.
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Originally posted by Nash
It doesn't surprise me, actually.
The homeless in NYC that bkbandit was talking about are way beyond gone. It's sad, but it's a constant, in that every society in every century has a set of people that just aren't equiped to deal. They were there 2,000 years ago, and they will be amongst us 2,000 years from now. It's less about motivation and will than it is about mentality and circumstance. It really doesn't add anything to the immigration debate to make mention of them.
I agree.
I still think that most people here would be amazed if they saw what we are dealing with here, with the illegals
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See Rule #7 (one more time and you are gone, read the rules)
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Originally posted by Nash
It doesn't surprise me, actually.
The homeless in NYC that bkbandit was talking about are way beyond gone. It's sad, but it's a constant, in that every society in every century has a set of people that just aren't equipped to deal. They were there 2,000 years ago, and they will be amongst us 2,000 years from now. It's less about motivation and will than it is about mentality and circumstance. It really doesn't add anything to the immigration debate to make mention of them.
Wow. I agree with Nash about somethin:O
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sheesh... are you guys just thick?
xmarine... who care about the police? who said anything about em... we all know they are only good for writing tickets and rounding up people that get snitched off.....
What is your solution?
As for the rest who feel that you will need to round up the illegals (the frigging millions of em BTW and every one a citizen of a foreign country)
Again.... are you just thick?
IF THERE ARE NO JOBS HERE THEY WILL NOT COME HERE... THOSE WHO ARE HERE WILL GO HOME. ANY THAT DON'T WILL BE SO FEW AS TO NOT MATTER.
you can solve the problem or you can let the government sell you a handfull of majic beans for your tax money. or... you can just get all pumped up with hate and maybe punish a few high profile illegals for your tax dollar and not even slow the flow.
you all want to be little dutch boys with your finger in the dike while the dike is gone half a block away.
lazs
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While I agree with whomping the employer, I also beleive we are in bad need to tighten up our borders In a BIG way. Not so much for the illegals from Mexico coming in , but for a much more seroius issue. Slowing down or stopping some illegals from entry will just be an added benefit.
We have left ourself wide open for too long.
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impossible to control immigration without first securing the border. we've got adequite laws on the books for dealing with illegals, for dealing with employers.
the current laws are just ignored, or there was no funding appropiated to enforce them. new laws are ludicrious.. if we don't enforce the current ones, including those in place to fine and prosecute employers of illegals, just what do you think will be accomplished by 'new' laws?
SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST.
Then, ENFORCE the laws on the books now.
NO AMNESTY. If you are an illegal; home you must go, apply you must do, return you may, after the proper proceedures are in place. Sounds cruel, but rewarding tresspassers while the legitimate immigrants continue to stand in line is wrong.
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Ok... go ahead and "secure the borders" whatever that means.... seems it means.... build 12' walls in order to drive up the cost of 13' ladders tho to me but...
go ahead... hire about a thousand or more extra cops to try to plug what is essentialy a sieve to the land of milk and honey... Like trying to capture water in your spread hands.
or... throw your hard earned money at the politicians and let em give you a handful of magic beans and a few months of tough talk and sound bites.
or...
you could just hire a couple of four eyed dweeb accountants to review the employers books and then arrest em and watch the flow of illegals slow to a trickle as demand goes away.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
you could just hire a couple of four eyed dweeb accountants to review the employers books and then arrest em and watch the flow of illegals slow to a trickle as demand goes away.
lazs
Yup to simple.. Translation: Government will never go for it.
Besides even if they did go for it .. They would have to have years of study at tax payers expense to see if it would work.
Bronk
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Originally posted by lazs2
sheesh... are you guys just thick?
xmarine... who care about the police? who said anything about em... we all know they are only good for writing tickets and rounding up people that get snitched off.....
You are suggesting an agressive law enforcment solution, and I'm telling you that the quirky politically correct rules that are in place exclude state sworn police and local courts from being involved.... The local law enforcment guys who patrol the streets and are in perfect posisition to make a difference, are not allowd to.
While the Feds are chasing them down, LAPD would be kicking back handing out hotel vouchers to the ones that get away... that system, they way it is, will FAIL.
The massively bloated Federal Government police dont have the manpower, local knowledge, or enough courts to do anything but make examples of a select few, to make headlines, before moving on. I dont see the FBI driving marked cars down Burbank Blvd rousting illegals every day.
And as soon as the Feds move on, the illegals will be right back out on the corner flipping the bird at the local gendarme... they know damm well a Federal cop can arrest em, but the local cops cant.
Ever been to Federal court?, it's slow, inefficient, bloated, and already choking.. plus its not set up for mass bookings or dealing with volumes of people. Who will transport the illegals to court?, where will they be jailed?.. it wont be the local Sheriffs Dept, nor can they be held in local jails on Federal immigration charges. We'll need new Federal jails, an entire infrastructure of buses, guards and a revamping of the Fed court system to aggressively go after and process illegals.
My solution is screw what the activists want and let the local cop on the beat enforce the law, its just stupid to exclude State law enforcement resources. I put more admitted illegals in jail than you can imagine, not 1 was ever kicked out, even after being through the local court system numerous times. A clear sign the system in place is broken.
Maybe it will cause illegals to not report crimes, fear the police, become perfect victims for criminals and all that.... and thats ok, send the message to all hopeful illegals that just because you made it here, its not an "illegal friendly" place and you will be hunted down and kicked out.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Ack-Ack pay my bills and college tution and i will gladly go. I dont collect no dam public assitance. Theres a whole bunch of guys here that cant get back in to school not because they are dumb but becuase they aint got the money.
Why not get financial aid to pay for your school? Quit making up excuses and blaming others for your own short comings.
ack-ack
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That money aint free. U have to pay it back. I noe a guy that cant finish until he starts sendin payments. Im not sure how much but i noe it aint cheap. Why else would girls strip to pay for college. Its to bad im not sexy in a thong. Regardless the goverment flips the bill i need money in my pocket for books,etc. If i could just go to college completely free like if it was high school i would go. The goverment wont give me along with my aid money to eat and to take the train. I took a placement test and was goin to go this past sept but the fact that i had no money in my pocket and cant ask my mother to take loans and dig herself in debt i didnt go. Im all for a competitive work place, competition breeds excellence. But im supposed to compete against somebody with my skill not by takin peanuts for pay. Just like football, 1 linebacker got strenght one linebacker has speed, now which when doesnt miss tackles. This is a competitive playin field. If when player is payin the coach to play doesnt matter how fast or strong the other guy is, he wont get the spot.
U have to attack employers but it would be easier to just grab them when there in bunchs waitin for work. Goin to each and every employer checkin his books doin backround checks on the workers would take awhile. And im pretty sure they will figure out somethin to get around it. All of a sudden all of the guys nephews are workin at his place when the inspector comes.
I understand that with the local police on there tail that they might be targeted by thieves and the like. Its bad but its another reason for them to go back. Lets say employers are being fined, local cops r on the look out, and then u got a bunch a guys with box cutters tryin to rob them for everything they got. Thats one ugly picture, and im pretty sure they wont want to hang around. Ull have illegals robin other illegals not just ur average street guy lookin to make a score. Putin the local lawenforcement after them doesnt mean i want them to be victims of crimes, the local law will just speed up the process of deportin them back.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
U have to attack employers but it would be easier to just grab them when there in bunchs waitin for work. Goin to each and every employer checkin his books doin backround checks on the workers would take awhile.
huh? How about just asking them to submit a w4? They pay them cash, no reporting to the IRS, and that would make for another law the business is breaking
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I havent evn sat down and watched the news in the last couple of days. Are they even tryin to get anything done?
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Originally posted by bkbandit
I havent evn sat down and watched the news in the last couple of days. Are they even tryin to get anything done?
Oh yea..........Rebecca Miller at channel 5 out of Dallas has gotten a new hairdo. Looks like she lost a few pounds and is really looking good.
About the best I could come up with concerning the news. :D
We`re talking da gubment here, which moves at the pace of frozen molasses.
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xmarine... local cops handle it??? the only thing that local cops can do "agressively" with their fat female 5'2" force is to go on an "agressive" (read PMS) "campaign" to enforce seatbelt and helmet laws.
I am not asking for any more police force. I am asking for accountants and immigration officials for stakeout... the local police can hang out with em during the arrest... they like to do that sort of thing in any case.
If this solution were implemented... you can bet the feds would be under pressure to get some results (throw some particularly abhorent employers in prison) and.... quickly....
The results are the fear. It doesn't matter how many you throw in jail... it matters not at all that most will get away... it only matters that they stop hiring out of gutless fear of prison.
If they know we are serious they will stop.... when they stop, the illegals will stop coming over... when that all happens the ones that are here will be fired (out of fear) and they will go home..
lazs
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:lol Operation "Do your ****ing job"
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moot... that is really really well said. That would be a perfect description of what I would call the plan if I had the power.
Can you imagine being an immigration official in charge of hunting down and arresting employers today? "what do you do for a living?" "oh.. I arrest employers who hire illegal aliens."
"oh... so what do yo DO for a living?"
Operation "Do your frigging job!"
I love it moot.
lazs
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Hehe :)
It's great that you're actually doing something. If I had the patience to deal with people and the courage to wade thru all the BS and red tape of bureaucracy, I think I might have made a career of it.. I'm better at working in scientific research, but I do think I'll get involved to a certain degree once I've got citizenship, even if the odds are against me.
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Also "operation do your ****ing job could entail enforcing our imigration laws and deporting any "sleazy scumbag" illegal caught in the country.
I'd love to see the "sleazy, scumbag law breakling" illegals taken off the steet corners for good with a few high-profile round-ups as well as the employers getting nailed. Both.
Really, I just want all of our laws enforced. Punish the sleazy scumbags who who hire illegals and deport the sleazy, dishonest, law breaking illegals who are caught here, no exceptions.
I don't see where we are thinking any differently lazs, except maybe that you don't seem to want to punish any illegals for breaking our laws.
How many illegals do you think would be standing around on the streets looking for work if they knew they would be deported if caught?
Just enforce the laws, that's all I want. I also want real penalties for being caught here illegally.
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Nuke I think his point was that it's the most efficient pressure point.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
That money aint free. U have to pay it back. I noe a guy that cant finish until he starts sendin payments. Im not sure how much but i noe it aint cheap. Why else would girls strip to pay for college. Its to bad im not sexy in a thong. Regardless the goverment flips the bill i need money in my pocket for books,etc. If i could just go to college completely free like if it was high school i would go. The goverment wont give me along with my aid money to eat and to take the train.
Actually, unless things have changed in the last few years, you are mostly wrong.
First, your need is computed based on tuition, supplies, room and board, and living expenses.
Second, a large portion of the financial aid available comes in the form of grants. (State and Federal, though I am not sure what NY offers.)
Third, of course you can "finish" school before you start paying back the loans. In fact there is a grace period (I believe it's like 6 months) after you graduate and even then the US Dept of Ed (who administers the Direct Loan program) is quite liberal in repayment methods and even forebearances (requested time to not make payments due to inability).
Fourth, even if they compute that you can afford to pay more than you actually can there is a non need-based version of the Direst Loan that can help cover the gap.
True, you do have to pay back quite a bit of money, but it is well worth it.
Remember, you said this:
"This is a country that if u hav the desire to be great nothin can hold u back."
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Originally posted by bkbandit
That money aint free. U have to pay it back. I noe a guy that cant finish until he starts sendin payments.
From your writing, I do don't think it's the illegals that are preventing you from getting a job.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by bkbandit
See Rule #7 (one more time and you are gone, read the rules)
Where are the rules? cant find them.
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nm found them
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Here is a link to a well thought out debate on this very subject.
http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=17263
shamus
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again... moot explained what I am saying.
It isn't a matter of me not wanting illegals arrested... it is a matter of me not wanting to waste a lot of tax money and resources on some feel good worthless program.
I have no interest in having my money be spent on fat assed immigration cops rounding up a few illegals and then... while they are filling out the paperwork..... ten times as many as they 'caught" are back across the border.
build the walls.... hire a bunch more border watchers.... be mean to an illegal if that will make you happy but....
at some point we will have to solve the problem... and the problem is...
THEY ARE COMING HERE BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL HIRE THEM.
lazs
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Desperate people do desperate things. We are all the sons and grandsons of desperate immigrants, who came here with nothing but the clothes on their backs and hopes and dreams of a better life. Alot of us seem to forget where we came from.
And you all speak English now, and WANT to be Americans.
not like the current crowd
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This is a BIG problem.
Going after the employers is great idea but....
Once they are gone do you really think that every illegal is going to just shrug his shoulders and say, "Oh well, it was fun while it lasted." in whatever language, and just march back to where they came from?
At that point i picture major crime waves as these illegals become wolf packs out for there own survival by any means needed.
Then what do we do? Form town militia's, and help the police/feds or whoever to gather every one of them up?
Unless the govt. comes up with a REAL plan on paper, and follows it through WITH the co-operation of the citizens, i honestly don't see anything changing. How many citizens actually have the honor and loyalty to this country, or even the balls to take on such a job?
Divided we fall...
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This just in... some (if not many) illegal aliens use fake identification cards and fake social security cards.
The employer is under NO obligation to verify the authenticity of these documents.
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Ack-Ack i could careless what u think, this isnt about goverment aid. I could came with a suit and tie to a interview but when they can get someone else for half the price they got u beat. Thats the point, and it goes right over ur head. I did my papar work and they didnt cover it all, and i still needed books and transportation. It was a nice school out in long island with football and the whole 9. Did well on the entrance exam and since i had no money i figured i would just start in the spring but i still havent found work. I need to cover the other expenses that uncle sam doesnt pick up. My ex girlfriend was goin to a good school butt due to money problems ended up tranferin to a moron school. If its diferent in ur state maybe i should move. Im just tellin the story from here in nyc.
ACK-ACK if u think im a moron or somethin i could truly careless, u dont noe me and i live on the other side of the united states. HOw can u possible now what i deal with every day i get up in the morning. If it was as easy as u say i would be studyin for exams or working. BUt im not. If there was jobs left and right then yea im being a jerk but thats not the case. Fill out 50 applications on the web and in person, talk to people and have people out lookin for jobs for u..... still no job. Then ill do a simple job with a friend, unloadin tiles off a truck, in a 2 and a half hours i made a quick 40 bucks......... i ask the guy if there would be any more jobs later on and he tells me, while today is not a normal business day, i normally get mexicans. The guy starts laughin and gets into his bmw and drives off. I dont mind workin for my money but dam, aint nothin out there. Any other job i get its either a hook up or a temp job, im not doin well with either. A quick meat head job will pay the little expenses, i wont get it when the can get some illegal to do it for less then half. Thats the point, not how i perform during an interview or how i speak to an employer, but the fact that these guys work for peanuts and dont give u a chance to even compete for the job. The last job i worked was a ups temp job during the holidays. Only reason i got the job was the fact that i aced the interview. BUt ur tellin me that im makein excuses and i dont know how to carry myself infront of these people. That seriously steams me. I hav been fightin my whole life to just stay above water but u reach a time where u either lose ur mind or run out of gas. My problem is the fact that these illegal mexicans give employer a different mind set, it goes from best guy for the guy to, the lowest bider.
Speed55 if these illegal mexicans want to try to start a crime wave here in brooklyn it aint goin to work. First sight of a illegal gang in my next of the woods is goin to be trouble for them, we will handle them. The goverment needs to step up. Lazy american and other guys that live off of there labor are goin to fight tooth and nail to keep them. Regardless anythin somethin has to happen.
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Originally posted by Sandman
This just in... some (if not many) illegal aliens use fake identification cards and fake social security cards.
The employer is under NO obligation to verify the authenticity of these documents.
Fake SS card? So they report a number that does not exist to the IRS?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Fake SS card? So they report a number that does not exist to the IRS?
Yep, you are right, blows my mind, how the hell can you just make up a number? Weird. I have read that they are cracking down on it, big time, I guess it's just a matter of wanting to find them
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You'll have to ask the IRS what they do with SSNs that don't quite match up.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You'll have to ask the IRS.
Yeah, just posted, they seem, in the past, to not want to find them. But here most work for cash, the ones hanging on the corners anyway.
"The employer is under NO obligation to verify the authenticity of these documents."
Well, it's time to become obligated
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Originally posted by Sandman
You'll have to ask the IRS what they do with SSNs that don't quite match up.
kind of funny that none of them ever get audited, or maybe they never file for a return and the IRS keeps the money:noid
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Bravo dear Watson
Im suprised of your lack of knowlage.
IRS is colecting milions every year from fake SSN numbers, thats "free"money.
Since they are not payd by employe but employer money are flooding to non existing accounts.
After every year or two, IRS is sending polite letter about non matching SSN and ask for correct data.
They dont care where from money come.
As for fake ID's. DL's and SSN thry can only work for this purpose. If you will try to use them to start bank account , buy weapon, take loan, buy insurance or do anything whats smell as a fraud. You will have your friendly neigborhood swat team knocking at your doors within 48 hours.
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Obligation? It's a felony to hire them.
I think they'd be obliged to themselves.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Well, it's time to become obligated
That's not their job. We pay law enforcement to worry about such things.
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Originally posted by Toad
Obligation? It's a felony to hire them.
I think they'd be obliged to themselves.
No, it's a felony to knowingly hire an illegal alien. Slightly different situation.
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Originally posted by Sandman
That's not their job. We pay law enforcement to worry about such things.
So I guess it's not the contactor's obligation to know building codes, we have town inspectors for that.
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he cant just put guys up from the corner and say "i didnt know he was illegal":lol
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Take it up with your representatives. I'm just telling you how it is, Sixpence.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
he cant just put guys up from the corner and say "i didnt know he was illegal":lol
No one asks a day laborer for paper work or ID. They are typically paid in cash are they not?
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Originally posted by Sandman
Take it up with your representatives. I'm just telling you how it is, Sixpence.
How it is is this, it is illegal to hire an illegal
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All U.S. employers are responsible for completion and retention of Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must verify the employment eligibility and identity documents presented by the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9. Acceptable documents are listed on the back of the form, and detailed below under "Special Instructions."
How many employers of illegals do you think are complying with this provision?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
How it is is this, it is illegal to hire an illegal
No, it is illegal to knowingly hire an illegal alien.
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Originally posted by Toad
How many employers of illegals do you think are complying with this provision?
Probably most if not all of them that hire full time employees. As I stated before, the employer is not obligated to detect fake identification documents.
Don't trust me. Google is your friend. Fake identification documents are a huge problem.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/14501687.htm
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sand man employers look for illegals to hire. They noe wat they are doin and there makeing crazy profits useing them. They go out get a couple of mexicans for the day and pay them cash. Some guys have regular mexicans that they use. Theres a deli that has three of them i noe all those guys that work there are off the books. They KNOWINGLY hire illegals. Our representives prob own a businesses(car washes,deli's,landscapeing,moveing companys,etc) that uses mexicans. If they were out for our best interest this wouldnt have happen. They just say that they do the jobs that we dont want to do which is bull. America gets lazyer and employers triple there profit.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
sand man employers look for illegals to hire. They noe wat they are doin and there makeing crazy profits useing them. They go out get a couple of mexicans for the day and pay them cash. Some guys have regular mexicans that they use. Theres a deli that has three of them i noe all those guys that work there are off the books. They KNOWINGLY hire illegals. Our representives prob own a businesses(car washes,deli's,landscapeing,moveing companys,etc) that uses mexicans. If they were out for our best interest this wouldnt have happen. They just say that they do the jobs that we dont want to do which is bull. America gets lazyer and employers triple there profit.
I'm not talking about day laborers or those paid with cash... You don't need IDs for this type of labor.
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They work ur day to day construction but u got alot of them that work everyday at car washes gas stations junk yards deli's pizza places u name it. Regardless whether they jump truck to truck they work illegal for peanuts. Go to any business that has a kitchen and theres a bunch there. Theres only one place i noe of here that dont have them and because its a family run place, nothin but aunts uncles cousins and brothers.
Why dont we tally up how many people want to get rid of the illegals and how many people here want to keep them.
I dont want them here 1.
Pro illegal 0
Anti illegal 1
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LOL... now this is really getting silly. Why do we check anything on firearms purchases if it is soooooo easy to just make up some numbers for ID?
If they can do a background check when an illegal tries to buy a firearm then they can do one when he tries to get hired... so what is there is a 24 hr waiting period to get hired...
And.... "roving bands of mexican illegals".... Ok... so now they are really just rioters? not people trying to feed their families? If they can't work they won't go home and instead... stay here and loot?
Doesn't sound like the kind of people we want here if that is the case.
nope.... you could have a 24 hr background check that would catch 99% of every fake ID and once the jobs dried up these hard working illegals would just go on home.
9 out of ten scum bag employers use fake ID's as an excuse to hire people they know are illegal.
the doom and gloomers have to make everything so complicated and impossible... silly..
lazs
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sandies article makes my case tho instead of perhaps what he wanted... If it costs $2000 for a fake ID package and passage to America.... when the jobs dry up so will the flow of illegals..
When the fake ID is kicked back on the 24 hr background check.... If it is good enough to pass a background check then we need to get rid of useless background checks on firearms purchases.
Seems there is no end to the criminals out there preying on illgals... be a good thing to take away the whole slave trading business.
lazs
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Originally posted by bkbandit
That seriously steams me. I hav been fightin my whole life to just stay above water but u reach a time where u either lose ur mind or run out of gas. My problem is the fact that these illegal mexicans give employer a different mind set, it goes from best guy for the guy to, the lowest bider.
Just more excuses...
ack-ack
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Hey BK,
Not sure how old you are, but your making it sound like you are totally desperate to find a career and or direction in your life.
No money = no school = no education = no job = no house, wife, kids.
Ever consider a branch of the military?
Last time i checked, there were no illegals, you get an education, you don't have to pay a dime, you get to travel, and it is an excellent base for any career.
A friend of mine just graduated from air traffic controller school in fl. and he was as desperate as they come a few years ago.
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From Sandman's article:
Unscrupulous employers also exploited the statute, authorities say. In mid-April, ICE agents raided the nationwide operations of Houston-based IFCO Systems, a pallet-recycling firm, after an undercover investigation led to allegations that midlevel managers were recruiting illegal immigrants and helping them obtain phony documents. Top company officials have said that they thought the documentation was legitimate.
I suspect that is not in the least uncommon. These guys should be put in the slammer and fined to the max.
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2 years ago we had the Secret Service show up at our door. They were interested in falsified documents and such. We cooperated with them and found about 30 of our 800 employees were not who they said they were. Some had been with us for up to 5 yeas and one was a supervisor.
We check all appropriate documentation and keep it on file. Employers are pretty easy to fool when it comes to this stuff.
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And then there's the employers who aid and abet the "fooling process" by helping their employees obtain false documents.
I think Laz is right on this one. The primary problem is the ease of finding a willing employer for an illegal.
Solving this problem has to start with that. They come here for the jobs, not for the cuisine.
Dry up the job supply and the incentive to come illegally is far, far less.
I think that's what we should be focusing upon. Far easier to catch 1000 law-breaking employers than 1,000,000 law-breaking aliens.
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i noe if i say anythin directed at ack-ack they will prob skuzzy will boat me, lets just say i would like ack-ack to come say it in my face.
I was about to go into the army a couple of months back but there people here in new york city i need to be here for. Its not the fact that im desparte for direction i just dont like sitting on my but. I feel kinda useless, i wake up lift some wieghts, play some games and hang out for a couple of hours. It was fun in the begining but i just feel useless now. IM not the knida guy that likes to sit in one place, i need to move. BUt thanks alot for the postive input.
I think u need to attack from both angles. Putting heat on the employer and giving a couple of cops on the beat the power to drag them in. It will be quicker this way. The illegals that dont get deported with the paper work will be found by the cops.
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Day without an Immigrant ended a week ago, and most of the country really didn't care...
Immigration reform will happen when the CITIZEN immigrants VOTE IT IN. Not when the Illegals and the misinformed stand in the streets and wave banners.
IF you're a citizen and you want change... VOTE. If you're not a citizen and you want to be one, do it right, do it legal.
Even American citizens who break the law have some of their rights removed.. Its called jail. We don't need more law breakers... I don't care what country they come from or what color their skin is.
But what I'm confused about is why this thread didn't end around the same time as the marches?
What did I learn from May 1st? I learned which local businesses hire illegals and which ones think they need to protect their right to exploit illegals by paying sub-minimum wage... Those businesses have lost my patronage, and that will last more than one day.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Its not the fact that im desparte for direction i just dont like sitting on my but. I feel kinda useless, i wake up lift some wieghts, play some games and hang out for a couple of hours. It was fun in the begining but i just feel useless now. IM not the knida guy that likes to sit in one place, i need to move. BUt thanks alot for the postive input.
You sound like a you have a good work ethic and a good attitude. Only you can decide what to do, but I'm pretty sure everything will turn out okay, based on what I can see.
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Originally posted by Kurt
Day without an Immigrant ended a week ago, and most of the country really didn't care...
Immigration reform will happen when the CITIZEN immigrants VOTE IT IN. Not when the Illegals and the misinformed stand in the streets and wave banners.
IF you're a citizen and you want change... VOTE. If you're not a citizen and you want to be one, do it right, do it legal.
Even American citizens who break the law have some of their rights removed.. Its called jail. We don't need more law breakers... I don't care what country they come from or what color their skin is.
But what I'm confused about is why this thread didn't end around the same time as the marches?
This thread was one hour and forty-four minutes closer to ending before you replied to it. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
This thread was one hour and forty-four minutes closer to ending before you replied to it. ;)
That would have been quite insightful... But Mr Big posted in response to a different remark and ruined it for you :aok
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Originally posted by Kurt
That would have been quite insightful... But Mr Big posted in response to a different remark and ruined it for you :aok
The bastige. :D
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if so much of the mexican workforce comes to america, i wonder how it affects the mexican economy.
maybe shut the border & mexico becomes china, but with burritos, tacos & enchiladas
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well... whatever your solution... unless you take the time to email or snailmail or even call your representitives..... you aren't doing anything.
I think most of the politicians know that the only solution that will work is to crack down on the employers...
Sadly... I don't think they are interested in a real solution. As pasta said... if you try to use a fake ID to buy something or get a loan or buy a firearm... 600 feds and 700 SWAT will be at your door (or maybe the neighbors first) kicking it in...
It would be dead simple to catch all the fake ID's and have a 24 hour waiting period for hiring...
The result would be that instead of "bi lingual" being the most desirable hiring trait... "citizen" would be.
If you care... write your representitives...
lazs
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What I don't understand is why it's such a big problem to find employers who hire illigals?
It seems obvious for me that illigals are paid less than minimal wage. If it is not the case it just means that minimal wage is too low. But paying subminimal wage is already illigal, and any speculations about fake IDs just have no sence, employers know for sure that they are hiring illigals.
I think that such things like paying less than minimal wage can be found by good accountant even from balance sheets. May be not to prove that but start to suspect.
Actually, even this is not necessary. All of you know where illigals work, and what kind of companies hire them. These companies have to do that otherwise they won't be competitive on the market, but it is another story. I think, US officials are not silly than you, and they all know this as well.
The question is: why they know that, and do nothing or very little?
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We just all need international IDs. Something easy to verify. Maybe a bar code tattooed on your hand or forehead. ;)
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Microchips, like dogs and cats.
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Originally posted by Toad
Microchips, like dogs and cats.
The problem with microchips is that they can be easily replaced or removed. Get a fake one every time you switch jobs or need to change your identity. Tattoos can be removed too but not easily or without leaving evidence.
Of course then someone will come up with an ink that can be made to disappear. I suppose ID tattoo ink will have to be government regulated and verifiable by any scanner. The scanner will link back to a world wide database identifying the individual and recording the scan and it's intended purpose.
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Not where I'm going to have them put the chip. ;)
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Originally posted by Vad
What I don't understand is why it's such a big problem to find employers who hire illigals?
It seems obvious for me that illigals are paid less than minimal wage. If it is not the case it just means that minimal wage is too low. But paying subminimal wage is already illigal, and any speculations about fake IDs just have no sence, employers know for sure that they are hiring illigals.
I think that such things like paying less than minimal wage can be found by good accountant even from balance sheets. May be not to prove that but start to suspect.
Actually, even this is not necessary. All of you know where illigals work, and what kind of companies hire them. These companies have to do that otherwise they won't be competitive on the market, but it is another story. I think, US officials are not silly than you, and they all know this as well.
The question is: why they know that, and do nothing or very little?
You can bet that the people that are using fake IDs are getting paid minimum wage or better.
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A background check like they use for guns would be a start.
That way, if the 20 year old Mexican standing in front of you is using the SSAN of a dead 90 year old one might surmise there is something amiss.
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So, when our elected officials fail to act what are we going to do about it? When will we collectively open our windows and yell "I'm mad as hell as I'm not going to take it anymore"? Will yelling do any good? I'm betting a tax revolt would get some real attention.
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Originally posted by lukster
So, when our elected officials fail to act what are we going to do about it? When will we collectively open our windows and yell "I'm mad as hell as I'm not going to take it anymore"? Will yelling do any good? I'm betting a tax revolt would get some real attention.
A tax revolt would get the first 1,000 or so made an example of (loose all assets, long prison term), that would be the end of the revolt.
shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
A tax revolt would get the first 1,000 or so made an example of (loose all assets, long prison term), that would be the end of the revolt.
shamus
That's what "they" want you to think. ;)
One of my customers is a CPA. We were talking one day and he told me that I would be very surprised to learn how many people go years without filing. Imagine what would happen if 100 million people simply "delayed" filing one year.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy
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Vote, and spread the word.
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Immigration reform could cost you (http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/28/smbusiness/immigration_reform_prices/index.htm)
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Illegal Immigration is ALREADY costing you a bundle (http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalconclusion.html)
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True enough, but I doubt that anyone has studied the problem well enough to determine if the cure will be more costly than the disease.
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Originally posted by Sandman
True enough, but I doubt that anyone has studied the problem well enough to determine if the cure will be more costly than the disease.
Well, one good thing could come from the influx of Mexicans. They could succeed in reclaiming California for Mexico. :p
We just need to make sure they promise to keep all the people living there now.
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sandie... if you want to make it a matter of profit or loss... you still have to get rid of the illegal slave trade.
It is impossible to figure what an illegal will cost the sytem in infrastructure like medical and schooling and such.... it is certain that the costs will rise every day tho as more and more illegals and their families come to America to use the benifiets that citizens are paying for...
How do you estimate the worth of illegals making our schools substandard? Illegals are trying to stop the testing for graduation right now because it is "unfair" to them because...... they can't speak english?
Nope... the cost for groceries and for having your lawn mowed is not just what you pay the grocery store or the slaver who sends a crew of leafblowers to your house....
At least if we got rid of the illegals we would know what the true cost of goods and services was.
Once the cost of a head of lettuce went up.... demand for mechanical solutions would arise... right now... we are not doing the necessary work on that because the illegals are so easy a solution for the slaver/employer....
he couldn't care less what it ultimately costs the country... He won't buy equipment when saps like us are willing to let him hire illegals and then care for them with our tax dollars.
lazs
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put simply... Let us say that it is a wash... the cost to keep illegals here is the same as what they do to keep costs down..
say that a head of lettuce currently costs 50 cents at the store and $4.50 a head in extra medical, criminal and schooling and other infrastructure to have illegals do the work... that is a total of $5.00 a head to us.
Now... say that they are gone... can't hire em no mow.... Now the cost of lettuce goes up to $5 a head because the farmer has to hire white kids and welfare people who are lazy and want a lot more money per hour and don't do as good of a job or..... documented guest workers getting more money...
In which of the above cases is the industry (john deere etc) gonna have a better market (incentive) to develop new equipment that will replace workers?
lazs
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Kick the mexicans out and make the people on welfare take the jobs!..they can still collect welfare but have to work for it!!Too many lazy folks in this country!!
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We're flying blind. We don't know the cost of the current problem and we don't know the cost of the solution.
... and yet everyone will gleefully go along and expect that immigration reform will make the problem better.
I have my doubts. I fully expect that any solution offered in the near term will simply cost the taxpayers to implement. Afterwards, any hardship imposed upon employers will simply be passed on to the consumers as added cost. Hospital and insurance costs to the consumers will not decrease. Schools will continue to fail because teachers and administrators are keenly focused on grades and test scores rather than education.
This entire problem is about money. Any solution better mean that I either get more, or get more for it and I just don't see either happening.
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Any solution to this issue that doesn't include some kind of economic package that will build up Mexico's job market is doomed to failure.
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What we're not flying blind about is that it is illegal. As in, "against the law"; so do we just ignore that? Just another law to ignore?
Second, is there any history of a country with completely open borders that maintained a high standard of living?
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Originally posted by Toad
What we're not flying blind about is that it is illegal. As in, "against the law"; so do we just ignore that? Just another law to ignore?
We have 14 million illegal immigrants in this country. We've been for all practical purposes ignoring this law for quite some time.
Certainly something should be done... but right now, with what our leaders know, this is little more than a political and/or emotional issue. They're short on facts and long on rhetoric.
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Here's my idea for fixing the problem.
1. secure the border ( fence, gaurd, technology or whatever), but get the damn border secured, to a reasonable degree.
2. Once the border is secure, grant amnesty to all illegals currently in the country who are not otherwise criminals.
3. Going forward, make it a felony to be in the US illegally, no exeptions.
4. make it a felony to knowingly hire or conspire to harbor any illegal
5. Bar all federal funding to anyone in the country illegally.
6. Mandate English as the official language of the US. The only taxpayer funded language programs or schooling should be English lessons for all immigrants who care to take them.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
Here's my idea for fixing the problem.
1. secure the border ( fence, gaurd, technology or whatever), but get the damn border secured, to a reasonable degree.
2. Once the border is secure, grant amnesty to all illegals currently in the country who are not otherwise criminals.
3. Going forward, make it a felony to be in the US illegally, no exeptions.
4. make it a felony to knowingly hire or conspire to harbor any illegal
5. Bar all federal funding to anyone in the country illegally.
6. Mandate English as the official language of the US. The only taxpayer funded language programs or schooling should be English lessons for all immigrants who care to take them.
1. Will cost $ billions.
2. Way too easy. Illegal immigrants should at least prove that they've been paying taxes for 10 years minimum.
3. More wasted tax dollars. Just deport.
4. Difficult to prove. Easier to simply deport.
5. Conflicts with 3. Prisons are often federally funded.
6. I can nit pick, but I get the gist of it. Will taxpayers be funding Spanish lessons for white folk?
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So when is the Day Without Legal Immigrants (and their Decendants) being organized? Wonder what effect that would have on the economy...
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Originally posted by Pei
So when is the Day Without Legal Immigrants (and their Decendants) being organized? Wonder what effect that would have on the economy...
what would the point be? What would they be protesting?
Nobody here is complaining about legal immigrants.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
Nobody here is complaining about legal immigrants.
Ah hell... we've got some "natives" that really ought not breed. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
1. Will cost $ billions.
2. Way too easy. Illegal immigrants should at least prove that they've been paying taxes for 10 years minimum.
3. More wasted tax dollars. Just deport.
4. Difficult to prove. Easier to simply deport.
5. Conflicts with 3. Prisons are often federally funded.
6. I can nit pick, but I get the gist of it. Will taxpayers be funding Spanish lessons for white folk?
Sandman.
1. couldn't think of a better thing to spend billions on
2. Too easy, yes. That's okay though, because we have them here anyway and we are not going to deport them anyway
3. I agree, deport the first time. 2nd time, tent city in the desert.
4. I see your point. Still, have it on the books and enforce it when able
5. yes.
6. Yeah, nit-picker you! Normal public school language programs can be taught as a second language. Second to English. English should be manditory for all public schools and all government business.
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Originally posted by lukster
That's what "they" want you to think. ;)
One of my customers is a CPA. We were talking one day and he told me that I would be very surprised to learn how many people go years without filing. Imagine what would happen if 100 million people simply "delayed" filing one year.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy
OK..you go first :)
To get 100 million into something like this you have to have leaders, they would go down in flames fast.
Can you imagine the perp walks on the news every night, film at eleven of all the poor women and kids dragged out of their homes because Dad was a tax protester?
I can tell you have not seen how vicious the government can be when you mess with "their" cash.
shamus
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Originally posted by Sandman
Certainly something should be done... but right now, with what our leaders know, this is little more than a political and/or emotional issue. They're short on facts and long on rhetoric.
So we should just forget all this and do something mañana?
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until next year?
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Originally posted by Sandman
.
4. Difficult to prove. Easier to simply deport.
By ignoring the employers you ensure this problem will never, ever, end and only get worse.
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Originally posted by Shamus
OK..you go first :)
To get 100 million into something like this you have to have leaders, they would go down in flames fast.
Can you imagine the perp walks on the news every night, film at eleven of all the poor women and kids dragged out of their homes because Dad was a tax protester?
I can tell you have not seen how vicious the government can be when you mess with "their" cash.
shamus
Hence my quote of JFK.
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sandie... at best the cost is a wash but most agree that the cost of having illegals here is huge and a defficet and.... it is getting worse.
But let's say it is a wash... You don't condone slavery for economic reasons. The reason hireing illegals is against the law is because it is immoral.
It is also dragging down the country and.... promoting a general disrespect for the law. that is all fine if that is the kind of country you want to live in...
As for the economic aspect... you could have guest workers... they would have documentation. Best of both worlds.
I do find it amusing that you sandie, in order to save a buck on having your lawn mowed... are willing to see hundreds or thousands of men women and children die every year trying to get into this country illegaly and.. to support what is in effect a slave trade and support some of the worst criminals in existence.
If your arguement is that it got bad over time and needs to be fixed over time.... that is OK... simply start jailing the employers... it would take a year or two to scare the traitors into submission but being the cowardly scum bags that they are... it would work.
No solution that does not involve the active and agressive capture and prosecution and jailing of employers will have any chance of working..
You could also say that any employer caught knowingly hireing illegals loses his chance to hire legal guest workers in the future.
lazs
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I expect the growing illegal immigration problem to be a major issue in the '08 election. If we can get someone elected who promises immigration reform we just might see some changes. If not, we better work on our spanish.
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Originally posted by Toad
So we should just forget all this and do something mañana?
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until next year?
In other words, "We don't understand the problem, so let's just quit."
How about taking the time and effort to understand the problem before leaping towards a solution? How's that sound?
You guys are being played. You're being played by the protestors, the media, and the politicians and you're going to jump head first into a emotional decision.
Don't be surprised when the results aren't at all satisfying.
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Originally posted by Sandman
In other words, "We don't understand the problem, so let's just quit."
How about taking the time and effort to understand the problem before leaping towards a solution? How's that sound?
You guys are being played. You're being played by the protestors, the media, and the politicians and you're going to jump head first into a emotional decision.
Don't be surprised when the results aren't at all satisfying.
I think I understand the problem quite well. The neighborhood in which I spent a fair amount of my youth now looks like Mexico. Everything is rundown and all shops have signs in Spanish. Of course the real problem is the very high crime there making it a dangerous place to be.
Just over a year and a half ago my youngest son was badly injured as a passenger in an automobile accident. He has twenty titanium plates in his face and head. The bill was $180K. We lived in the hosipital with him for over two weeks. During that time I think about 80% or more of the people we saw there were hispanic. I'm betting most them weren't paying customers. How much of my bill was paying for their care?
The problem is obvious to most of us. The irritant is that we have laws to protect us from this illegal immigration which are not being enforced. We want and need leaders who will ensure that our laws are taken seriously and enforced.
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sandie you make no sense.... It would appear to me that federal government not enforceing the hiring of illegals laws is us "being played"
I had the impression that you are being played by the lefties who want to add more and more needy socialist democrat lovers to their roles of voters. Seems that democrat politicians have no more love for America than employers who are breaking the laws.
It is you who are being played at this point... the rest of us have been hiding our heads in the sand but the problem has gotten too big to hide from.
enforcing the law on the choke point (the scum bag employer) is the best solution.
lazs
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Originally posted by Sandman
How about taking the time and effort to understand the problem before leaping towards a solution? How's that sound?
Ah.. so the problem "needs more study".
Perhaps we should appoint a committee; as a rule they are highly effective in studying the problem. We could give them a few tens of millions of dollars and 5 or 10 years to work through this complex issue.
THEN we might "understand" the problem or, things may have changed so we'll have to have another study.
Or maybe the problem is pretty simple. Employers employing illegals are felons.
I know it's hard to understand the concept of enforcing that law but maybe we could give it a try while all the studying is going on.
Or maybe there is no right and wrong anymore. Maybe it all just "depends".
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Originally posted by Pei
So when is the Day Without Legal Immigrants (and their Decendants) being organized? Wonder what effect that would have on the economy...
Don't know 'bout that ......But found this .....
Received: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:13 AM On May 1st, as a result of the Mexican boycott, national retailers reported 4.2% lower sales for the day, with a 67.8% reduction in shoplifting.
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You guys just don't get it. Forget about the sociological and morality or immorality issues of capitalism at work.
My sense of caution is purely economical.
Lasz you've admitted as much. You don't know the cost of the problem. I'm certain that no one knows the cost of the solution either.
So... dive right in. Legislate away.
I'm just going to sit back and wait for the unintended consequences and the inevitable finger pointing. I'll be sure to say, "I told you so."
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There isn't any need to legislate anything further at all. The laws are already on the books.
Actually, you're just sitting back and doing nothing. Great solution.
Maybe if we ignore it, it'll just go away.
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I might as well be having a discussion with a brick.
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Well, let's study that problem some more.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I might as well be having a discussion with a brick.
Here ya go Sandi.... a place where your views fit right in .....
2006 Immigrant Rights Club Educational
Guide.....http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/752/1/105/ (http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/752/1/105/)
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I should have said bricks.
:rolleyes:
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WTF..
Sandy is correct.. Toad is correct.. and Laz is correct.
And.. gawdammit, securing this nations borders is not an issue that's debatable. We are at war.. They should be secure. Period.
No new FEDERAL laws need be enacted.. just enforce the ones we have.. including allocating the funds necessary to do the enforcement. Employers fined and /or jailed, illegals deported.
The only new legislation required devolves around state's.. it's assinine for a state to deny their involvement in the creation of this problem... as long as they issue a drivers license without documentation and prohibit the police from acting to deport or detain for federal persual of policy the illegals.. then it's THEIR problem. On the Federal level.. enforce the laws on the books now, and States need to accept responsibility for their local dillema.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
WTF..
No new FEDERAL laws need be enacted.. just enforce the ones we have.. including allocating the funds necessary to do the enforcement.
Funds?
Cost of the Iraq war to the border states:
California: 36 billion
Arizona: 3 billion
New Mexico: 900 million
Texas: 21 billion
Louisiana: 2.5 billion
Mississippi: 1.2 billion
Alabama: 2.6 billion
Florida: 15 billion
........pissed away.
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Nash, to be fair you should include the costs to those states of all other military and humanitarian actions funded since the Punitive Expeditions into Mexico. Since it was money spent in the pursuit of interests other than the security of the Southern US border, it was equally "pissed away" in the context of securing the Southern US border. Don't forget to account for inflation since we're going for a fair and impartial analysis.
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On May 1st, as a result of the Mexican boycott,
>national retailers reported 4.2% lower sales for the
>day, with a 67.8% reduction in shoplifting....
>_
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hang... sandie is not in the least correct since he offers no solution at all except to maybe form a committe.... probly headed by diane finestien...
to "study" the problem.. What he advocates is to continue with the lawlessness so long as it brings new socialists into the country and gets his lawn mowed.
There are plenty of "studies" on the cost/benifiet of illegals in this country. Most show that that if everything is taken into consideration.... it is a wash or costing us.. at the current rate... it will only get worse tho as more illegals flood in.
The costs we can't measure is the cost to learning and the cost of seeing the law ignored by those who swore to uphold it. Why should I obey the law? especialy if breaking it will get me to work faster or be better for me in some way?
As toad pointed out and sandie ignores... the laws are on the books.. people have sworn to enforce them...
We either do that or change the laws. those are the only options... study before enforcement or change is not an option.
If these employers are breaking the law we need to arrest them and run them through the system that is in place...
Any illegals caught need to be deported.
No illegals should be allowed schooling in a taxpayer funded school.
the border needs to be secure.
this will take time and give finestein and company plenty of time to "study" the problem.
In the end... everyone will just agree that what happened was that we didn't arrest enough employers and we made it too tempting to be an illegal alien here tho.
lazs
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Lazs u cant argue with that.
But what do u mean by "any illegals caught". I can go to 18th ave right now and "catch" 30 of them or a can just go to ur average business car washs, land scaping, moving companys, fruit stands, deli"s, construction, pizzeria's, etc and get a whole bunch of illegals. Do u want cops on the beat to bring them in?
Hiring illegals is against the law but if you think about it this is just a business man being a business man. He's trying to get the most porfit that he can and the fact that these illegals are all over and working for peanuts of course there goin to take advantage of the situation. Yes i would like to see them pay for breaking the law, but instead of jailin them and doing all the paper work i would just ticket the hell out of them. And still they will probably just say that they didnt know that he hired illegals, that will be another hassel.
Geting after the employer will leave them with out jobs but what if they hang around. I dont think they will just start walkin back as soon as joes moving company wont hire them. If u start roundin them up and shipin them back im pretty sure they will start goin back faster. Haveing the cops do bring them in(i dont think theres nobody better for this sort of thing) might cause other problems like profiling but it really isnt hard to pick these guys out.
No we shouldnt pay for there schoolin or health care. BUt heres the trick, the jump other and hav a whole mess of kids here. I would send there kids back too but i dont think its that simple. That will probably be a whole new debute in itself.
They need to handle this illegal problem all ready, goverment officals are sitting on there hands. The laws are there in black and white, whats the problem send them back.
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Originally posted by lazs2
hang... sandie is not in the least correct since he offers no solution at all except to maybe form a committe....
Please point to the post where I stated anything about committees. Oh... and who decided that we can't point out a problem without providing a solution? You? Pfft.
Originally posted by lazs2
There are plenty of "studies" on the cost/benifiet of illegals in this country. Most show that that if everything is taken into consideration.... it is a wash or costing us.. at the current rate... it will only get worse tho as more illegals flood in.
...and yet, earlier you stated that the true costs could never be known.
Whatever...
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sandie... you can indeed point out a problem without offering a solution but it is dishonest to simply tear down solutions when you really do have an agenda. I believe that your politics are best served by allowing as many illegals in the country as possible and.... figuring out a way that they can vote the socialist party of the democrats.
As for "cost" I said that simple ledger costs can be tallied in dollars and cents the billions a year to educate for instance... that is simple.. it is not so simple to add up what it costs us to lower our education standard to suit these third worlders..... pretty simple difference really.
Nope.. the laws are on the books... enforce em. I see hesitation in judges to do the right thing so... like in so many other cases.... we need a mandatory jail time for hiring.. other than that....
simply enforce the laws.
regular cops can arrest for no ID or false ID and then turn over to immigration.
bandit.... you are correct... some will hang out but... the tide will slow to a trickle... we will then have resources to gather up the hard core criminal types who won't leave.... most, those here to support a family, will just leave... not point in being here if they can't send money back to the family.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
sandie... you can indeed point out a problem without offering a solution but it is dishonest to simply tear down solutions when you really do have an agenda. I believe that your politics are best served by allowing as many illegals in the country as possible and.... figuring out a way that they can vote the socialist party of the democrats.
Go easy on the koolaid. Some of us in this country don't buy into the red/blue polarizing nonsense.
I'm not a democrat.
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If you do not see the polarization of voting in the red blue areas then you are blinded by agenda... If you do not see the agenda of the democratic party on the issue of illegals then...
you are a fool or you think we are.
Or is it a coincedence that the democratic party spokespeople sound just like you? "let's do nothing... let's study it.... let's not be too hasty.... let's remember they are simply undocumeted immigrants and not criminals.... it is impossible to do anything about... studies show we will all die with our lawns not mowed if we get rid of em." you are probly not a democrat... like me you probly hate them like I hate republicans but.... you vote for em when the green party or the peace and love or socialist party can't get in or... a repulican might..... just like I vote republican when a libertarian can't tget in or a democrat might.
LOL... I would bet anything that you want them to continue to come in at the same rate and to get more and more rights until they are at last able to vote.... I would bet that you are ok with educating their kids and giving em drivers licences.
lazs
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Blah blah blah...
Prove I'm wrong. You don't know the true economic costs of 15 million illegal immigrants and you don't know the cost of immigration reform.
Let's just ignore all that and talk about your ridiculous perceptions of me.
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http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html
http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2537000&nav=menu135_2_5
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43275
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm
http://madtechspeaks.blogspot.com/2005/05/hidden-cost-of-illegal-immigration.html
http://www.carryingcapacity.org/huddlenr.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040825-031809-3159r.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7820047/from/RL.3/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12157299/from/RL.1/
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/mostread/s_450498.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1609318/posts
there are hundreds of more sights with only the NY times (big surprise) saying that "it looks bad sure... but maybe not as bad as it seems"
Most of the sites I have come upon seem to cite the governments Center for Immigration study... they also take state sponsored studies and just plain opinions...
In any case... the costs never seem to worth it.
as for my "ridiculous perceptions" of you.... do you and I not dissagree on allmost every important matter? Do you not vote democrat far more often than republican?
lazs
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Perfect. We're back on topic.
Er... almost perfect.
I have no idea which candidates I vote most for because I don't vote along party lines, but I always vote no on any new tax or anything that costs more money. It is my opinion that the state and federal governments already have more money than they need and I vote accordingly.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Prove I'm wrong. You don't know the true economic costs of 15 million illegal immigrants and you don't know the cost of immigration reform.
One thing is certain: We are not ever going to deport 24 million illegals, so the cost doesn't matter much either way.
That's why I favor securing the borders first. We can build a wall, put cameras and sensors up and get the military down there to man everything. I'd bet we could stop over 90% of these criminal scumbags from sneaking into the country.. We can estimate the cost of doing this to a reasonable degree.
Will it cost a lot? Yes
Can it be done? Yes
Is it worth it? Our country NEEDS to do this, sooner or later. Well worth it.
Once the border is secured, give the scumbag, lying, dishonest criminals already in the country amnesty and get them all documented. They are here anyway and they are not going away.
From that point on, every illegal caught in the country is charged with a felony and deported. If they come back, they are prosecuted and sent to a tent city out in the desert.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
Once the border is secured, give the scumbag, lying, dishonest criminals already in the country amnesty and get them all documented. They are here anyway and they are not going away.
You build that big wonderful wall and then you give the "insiders" amnesty?
Hardly... you put 'em back on their side of the wall.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
I'd bet we could stop over 90% of these criminal scumbags from sneaking into the country.. We can estimate the cost of doing this to a reasonable degree.
That's the only crime more often than not; sneaking across the border. It's a misdemeanor offense.
I can't find myself calling someone a criminal scumbag simply because they want more for themselves and their families and they're willing to work for it. I suspect that most of us if faced with the same sort of poverty would do the same.
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I think that giving them amnesty is the most practical solution.
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Originally posted by Sandman
That's the only crime more often than not; sneaking across the border. It's a misdemeanor offense.
I can't find myself calling someone a criminal scumbag simply because they want more for themselves and their families and they're willing to work for it. I suspect that most of us if faced with the same sort of poverty would do the same.
Here in Maricopa county, it's a felony now. Our borders must be secure.
And I call them that in response to Lazs calling the people who hire them the same names. Both are breaking the laws, lying and being dishonest just to try to make more money.
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That's nice, but illegal immigration is not a state offense. It's a federal offense and the federal government will not allow the state to take action. That the SC struck down California's Prop 187 is an example of this.
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well... we do agree on the fact that the illegals are doing what they do because they are trying to improve a very bad life situation. They are criminals but... what are they to think? they come here and once here... their "illegal" status is ignored and they are hired eagerly...They have very little incentive to obey the "law".
As such... stronger borders are both needed and... impossible to make 100% effective and.... probly costly.... not 10-30 billion dollars a year costly like what illegals cost but.... costly.
The absolute best way to do the most good is to arrest the real criminals causing the problem... the scum bag traitors.... the employers. It is the easiest and most cost effective way. Stronger borders are needed but only in conjuction with jailing the scum bag employers.
lazs
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Originally posted by Sandman
That's nice, but illegal immigration is not a state offense. It's a federal offense and the federal government will not allow the state to take action. That the SC struck down California's Prop 187 is an example of this.
Well, we are already taking action. Hundreds of arrests have been made under the new law. Conspiracy to smuggle an illegal across the border is now a felony here. Conspiring to smuggle oneself falls under the definition of the law as it's been interpreted.
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Smuggling illegal aliens is a federal felony offense, IIRC.
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Originally posted by lazs2
They are criminals but... what are they to think? they come here and once here... their "illegal" status is ignored and they are hired eagerly...They have very little incentive to obey the "law".
lazs
Works both ways. What is Joe from Joe's landscape to think? The laws against hiring illegals is ignored and there are hundreds of illegals standing on the corner willing to work. Joe has to eat too. Very little incentive to obey the law.
The small business is a victim just as much as the illegal is, but you can't see it. The government has allowed the laws to be ignored....even encouraged it.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Smuggling illegal aliens is a federal felony offense, IIRC.
Tell that to Maricopa county and the Sherrif ;)
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Originally posted by Mr Big
The small business is a victim just as much as the illegal is, but you can't see it. The government has allowed the laws to be ignored....even encouraged it.
It's called capitalism.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
Tell that to Maricopa county and the Sherrif ;)
That doesn't mean they can't enforce it. What I meant was that the states cannot make immigration laws that are more restrictive than federal statutes.
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Originally posted by Sandman
That doesn't mean they can't enforce it. What I meant was that the states cannot make immigration laws that are more restrictive than federal statutes.
I'll look it up ( or google it )
The law was just passed and it interprets "smuggling" to include smuggling yourself. So it's a felony to enter the US illegally and that is what is being enforced here.
It's a good start.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
I'll look it up ( or google it )
For starters, do a search on Prop 187 in California. After an overwhelming majority of votes, the SC struck it down.
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sandie... 187 was struck down by the wildly liberal 9th circuit... The ACLU and ninth agree on allmost everything.
So what are we doing? not much.
I admit that just getting my point out here and to anyone who will listen is no big deal...
Also... no big deal but I just wrote to every one of my representitives and told them how I feel about the issue. Again... no big deal but it is something... every one of em is a woman democrat tho that I have never seen make a rational dicision so I don't expect much.
It is "something" tho. I would suggest that all of you do the same.... voice your opinions. It is quite easy to email your reps and if they are all clones like mine you only need write one email and copy and paste for all of them.
lazs
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Joe from joes landscaping isnt just getting by useing illegals, he's makeing out lovely. If he needs to rely on illegal immigrants to make a profit he's a horrible business man and doesnt desire it. Dont give him jail time just fine the living daylights out of him. Give him a good $1000 fine and that will make him think twice about hiring some illegals off the corner. Now with no work we send our everyday on the beat cops to drag them in and ship them back(i can go alone and get a goood 60 a day). We have to hit them from both angles. Im not goin to stand for none of these illegal gangs runing around brooklyn. Down in the south west that ms13 or whatever they call themselves is running wild. If we dont go after them we will end up with a big population of unemployed drug dealers and gang bangers. They can easliy go from mowing the law to tryin to push drugs(now instead of joe landscaping taking advantage of illegals bobby with a basement full of coke will take advantage).I wont stand for that, ill get all these moron crips and bloods and organize them then pit them against these illegals.
U cant build a wall and make these illegals here legal. Once there legal they will want the same pay as anyone and why would joe landscaping hire them now. Joe landscaping rather pay a young kid that speaks english. I have heard these from guys that own construction company etc. The fact that there illegals means that they cant complain, alot of times i heard that they will do a job and the employer will turn around and not pay them. A guy told me a story the other day, he was goin to lay some tile and he went to go get some illegals, he comes up and says 40 bucks, illegal turns around and say give me 70. So the guy says u take 40 or i either get u deported or i drive to the next corner and get someone else, u guys are a dime a dozen. I thoug this was funny but when u think about it its a big problem. U make these guy legal they wont work. Mexicos econmoy needs them there anyway, there tryin to rebuild so throwing them back over might be alot better them then leting them stay here.
The liberals are a big problem, these are the people that catch bin laden and let him go because he said sorry.
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Originally posted by lazs2
sandie... 187 was struck down by the wildly liberal 9th circuit...
Oops... you're right. But I'd rather blame Gray Davis for not pushing for an appeal.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
The liberals are a big problem, these are the people that catch bin laden and let him go because he said sorry.
:noid
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grey davis was as liberal socialist as the ninth circuit and the ACLU birds of a feather.
The 9th circuit court is the very best reason to never vote for a democrat because it might give em power to appoint judges.
The ninth circuit has been thwarting the will of the people for decades.
lazs
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The court isn't subject to the will of the people. I'll bet that's exactly what the founders intended.
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Originally posted by Sandman
The court isn't subject to the will of the people. I'll bet that's exactly what the founders intended.
The court is indirectly subject to the will of the people. People makes laws, through their elected legislators and sometimes through direct vote. It is the courts only purpose to uphold those laws, never to legislate as some are doing.
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Nope.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Now with no work we send our everyday on the beat cops to drag them in and ship them back(i can go alone and get a goood 60 a day).
LMAO! I'd like to see the newspaper headlines if you tried. "Stupid New Yorker gets bellybutton kicked by 60 Mexicans on a street corner" lol
ack-ack
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Ack-ack has nothin better to do then try to take shots at me:lol .
He hasnt written anything else on this thread, nothin about a solution to the illegal problem. Find somethin better to do ack-ack.
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don't get me wrong sandie.... I think the court has the duty to make sure that the will of the people does not step on individuals rights and that it is constitutional... I simply believe that the ninth circuit is twisting the meaning of our constitution all out of shape in order to impose their will over ours. I believe that the people are acting constituionaly and the court is not.
That is why it is so bad to let democrats in. they appoint commie judges.
lazs
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The only thing the illegal immigrants need to have underway is their butts back to their own country. If they come here legally & go through the process they deserve their chance, just as our laws dictate. If they come here illegally & then join our military & risk their lives for our country, they should be granted citizenship. I think the crap about our govt. spending federal money to carry immigrants who come here & claim asylum is ridiculous.
A friend of mine lived in Sacremento & was barely getting by working at a poster factory & rooming with 4 or 5 other people in a two bedroom apt. His dad was killed in Vietnam & has an education as a machinist, the people who lived next door to them were Ukranians who got $100,000 a year for five years from the federal govt. for living expenses, a business purchased for them by the federal govt. (seperate from the 100K a year), their rent paid (seperate from the 100K a year), new furnishings purchased for their apt. (again, seperate fro mthe 100K a year) & they were sheltered from taxes for that five year period.
My friend found all this out becasue he was sleeping on the floor with a military surplus wool blanket & the Ukranians were hauling a leather couch to the curb for pick-up! He inquired about the couch, (scored it for a bed) & struck up a friendship with the father & oldest son, they had a good pot connection & my friend was a stoner at that time & they ended up spending a lot of time talking with each other.
My buddy eventually ended up buyiong a Toyota B-210 wagon from them & driving back to Arkansas, gave up smoking dope & has a daughter & a job installing sattelite dishes. As a single father he provides the best he can on what little money he makes...but I always wonder how the Ukranians faired after the $1,000,000 our federal govt. spent on them.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
The only thing the illegal immigrants need to have underway is their butts back to their own country. If they come here legally & go through the process they deserve their chance, just as our laws dictate. If they come here illegally & then join our military & risk their lives for our country, they should be granted citizenship. I think the crap about our govt. spending federal money to carry immigrants who come here & claim asylum is ridiculous.
A friend of mine lived in Sacremento & was barely getting by working at a poster factory & rooming with 4 or 5 other people in a two bedroom apt. His dad was killed in Vietnam & has an education as a machinist, the people who lived next door to them were Ukranians who got $100,000 a year for five years from the federal govt. for living expenses, a business purchased for them by the federal govt. (seperate from the 100K a year), their rent paid (seperate from the 100K a year), new furnishings purchased for their apt. (again, seperate fro mthe 100K a year) & they were sheltered from taxes for that five year period.
My friend found all this out becasue he was sleeping on the floor with a military surplus wool blanket & the Ukranians were hauling a leather couch to the curb for pick-up! He inquired about the couch, (scored it for a bed) & struck up a friendship with the father & oldest son, they had a good pot connection & my friend was a stoner at that time & they ended up spending a lot of time talking with each other.
My buddy eventually ended up buyiong a Toyota B-210 wagon from them & driving back to Arkansas, gave up smoking dope & has a daughter & a job installing sattelite dishes. As a single father he provides the best he can on what little money he makes...but I always wonder how the Ukranians faired after the $1,000,000 our federal govt. spent on them.
thats a big BS,
there is no machinist who earn less then 25$hour around bayarea, unless he dont like to work or is really poor machinist.
For that kind of money you dont have to share apartment with anyone
Looks like your friend was just lazzy.
Also i dont belive our cheap gov will give anyone 100k a year as charity