Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on May 01, 2006, 04:48:03 PM
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Oil Change Instructions for Women and Men
Oil Change instructions for Women:
1) Pull up to Jiffy Lube when the mileage reaches 3000 miles (or the calendar reads three months) since the last oil change.
2) Drink a cup of coffee.
3) 15 minutes later, write a check and leave with a properly maintained vehicle.
Money spent:
Oil Change $20.00
Coffee $1. 00
Total $21.00
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Oil Change instructions for Men:
1) Wait until Saturday, drive to auto parts store and buy a case of oil, filter, kitty litter, hand cleaner and a scented tree, write a check for $50.00.
2) Stop by 7 - 11 and buy a case of beer, write a check for $20, drive home.
3) Open a beer and drink it.
4) Jack car up. Spend 30 minutes looking for jack stands.
5) Find jack stands under kid's pedal car.
6) In frustration, open another beer and drink it.
7) Place drain pan under engine.
8) Look for 9/16 box end wrench.
9) Give up and use crescent wrench.
10) Unscrew drain plug.
11) Drop drain plug in pan of hot oil: splash hot oil on you in process. Cuss.
12) Crawl out from under car to wipe hot oil off of face and arms. Throw kitty litter on spilled oil.
13) Have another beer while watching oil drain.
14) Spend 30 minutes looking for oil filter wrench.
15) Give up; crawl under car and hammer a screwdriver through oil filter and twist off.
16) Crawl out from under car with dripping oil filter splashing oil everywhere from holes. Cleverly hide old oil filter among trash in trash can to avoid environmental penalties. Drink a beer.
17) Buddy shows up; finish case of beer with him.
Decide to finish oil change tomorrow so you can go see his new garage door opener.
18) Sunday: Skip church because "I gotta finish the oil change." Drag pan full of old oil out from underneath car. Cleverly dump oil in hole in back yard instead of taking it back to Kragen to recycle.
19) Throw kitty litter on oil spilled during step 18.
20) Beer? No, drank it all yesterday.
21) Walk to 7-11; buy beer.
22) Install new oil filter making sure to apply a thin coat of oil to gasket surface.
23) Dump first quart of fresh oil into engine.
24) Remember drain plug from step 11.
25) Hurry to find drain plug in drain pan.
26) Remember that the used oil is buried in a hole in the back yard, along with drain plug.
27) Drink beer.
28) Shovel out hole and sift oily mud for drain plug. Re-shovel oily dirt into hole. Steal sand from kids sandbox to cleverly cover oily patch of ground and avoid environmental penalties. Wash drain plug in lawnmower gas.
29) Discover that first quart of fresh oil is now on the floor. Throw kitty litter on oil spill.
30) Drink beer.
31) Crawl under car getting kitty litter into eyes. Wipe eyes with oily rag used to clean drain plug. Slip with stupid crescent wrench tightening drain plug and bang knuckles on frame.
32) Bang head on floorboards in reaction to step 31.
33) Begin cussing fit.
34) Throw stupid crescent wrench.
35) Cuss for additional 10 minutes because wrench hit bowling trophy.
36) Beer.
37) Clean up hands and forehead and bandage as required t o stop blood flow.
38) Beer.
39) Beer.
40) Dump in five fresh quarts of oil.
41) Beer.
42) Lower car from jack stands.
43) Accidentally crush remaining case of new motor oil.
44) Move car back to apply more kitty litter to fresh oil spilled during steps 23 - 43.
45) Beer.
46) Test drive car.
47) Get pulled over: arrested for driving under the influence.
48) Car gets impounded.
49) Call loving wife, make bail.
50) 12 hours later, get car from impound yard.
Money spent:
Parts $50.00
DUI $2500.00
Impound fee $75.00
Bail $1500.00
Beer $40.00
Total - - $4,165.00
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Fugg Jiffy Lube..I change every 6k(miles) and write a check for $10.
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Who but old women writes checks anymore?
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Whats a check?
Drediock, Have you been changeing your own oil again?
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Originally posted by dmf
Whats a check?
Drediock, Have you been changeing your own oil again?
You mean your supposed to change the oil? LOL
No. Gave that up a long long time ago. too hard to get rid of the old stuff anymore. But I could relate to sticking a screwdriver through the filter to get it off though from the days when I did.
And my time is worth more to me then that
No for less then $30 I can bring it to my local Bon ee fide Mech en ech 3 blocks away and get the oil changed fluids checked,joints lubed given a general once over.
I drop it off. Walk 2 buildings over. Grab a slice of pizza Walk 1 building ovr from that to the local Indian owned convenience store, Grab myself a can of Monster and a single lottery ticket., flirt with the hot hot HOT Indian chick there or when she is not there bust the chops of her brothers and husband and tease them how when I win the lottery Im gonna buy Cashmere so neither India nor Pakistan will own it or any number of other things.
Walk back pick up whichever vehicle I brought in pay for it and go home.
In less then 45 min I've had my vehicle seviced, I've been fed and Entertained or otherwise amused and I didnt bust a knuckle or get a stitch of grime on me.
Well worth the extra $15-20 dollars
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Dred not to mention you are still somewhat clean. I changed the oil in the jeep this weekend and a wind gust blew the oil stream about 2 senconds after removing the plug. Thank god it was cold and hadn't been drivin that day because it went all over my face and shirt. BUT I did dodge a pretty big bullet in that I noticed my radiator cap was about to break into a bunch of pieces so I replaced that this weekend as well.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....
hell; ya deserve a break.
Just remember, I coulda had 'fun' with this, Guns.
:D
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Oil Change instructions for Women:
1) Pull up to Jiffy Lube when the mileage reaches 3000 miles (or the calendar reads three months) since the last oil change.
2) Drink a cup of coffee.
3) 15 minutes later, write a check and leave with a properly maintained vehicle.
Now thats something I think a mother could do.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
1) Pull up to Jiffy Lube when the mileage reaches 3000 miles (or the calendar reads three months) since the last oil change.
3,000 miles? LOL - modern cars (like mine) with synthetic oils can go 18,000 between services/oil changes. :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
3,000 miles? LOL - modern cars (like mine) with synthetic oils can go 18,000 between services/oil changes. :D
I wasn't aware you had to grease up the hamster under your hood! That's another good reason to never have a rodent for a pet.
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Keep using the lub places....
that is where we get our (will get) for our LOCO....
Steamers burn used crankcase oil just fine.
Gunns
http://www.nmrhs.org/
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Originally posted by beet1e
3,000 miles? LOL - modern cars (like mine) with synthetic oils can go 18,000 between services/oil changes. :D
A pushmower has more HP than your cars... Britphag.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
A pushmower has more HP than your cars... Britphag.
:lol
An electric golf cart could beat my brand spankin new '96 Ford Probe off the line.
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I use synthetic and change it and the filter every 5 or 6k... it costs me about 25 bucks. takes about a half hour and I use the time to check out the car.
Unlike jiffy lube... I will be sure to put oil back in and tighten the drain plug... I will also know what the underneath of my car looks like.
lazs
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Originally posted by VOR
I wasn't aware you had to grease up the hamster under your hood! That's another good reason to never have a rodent for a pet.
Hamster Lube......opening in an area near you soon. :rofl
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......!!! LMFAO
That's right "up" beetles alley I'm sure.
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Last summer while riding my V-rod, I spotted a car leaving a Jiffy-Lube and turing in front of me. The car was spilling oil all over the street. Lucky I saw it rather than riding in it.
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Are you kidding? I know too many people who work in those places. I'd never let them change my oil lol. I go to the service station down the street that still has 2 full serve pumps and a full service garage on the side. He charges me 25 bucks and I get to stand there while he does the work. Granted sometimes I have to wait a full ............. oh, maybe 20 minutes. Horrible I know. I figure I'm helping support a business I want to see stay around, and I avoid having to dig in the backyard for the oil drain plug. :)
Word of warning on that screwdriver through the filter trick. Dont try it if the filter has been on there for like 100,000 miles or something stupid. I tried it once, the gasket was baked onto the block. Ended up smashing the distributor cap. That was fun to explain.
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lol.....
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
You mean your supposed to change the oil? LOL
No. Gave that up a long long time ago. too hard to get rid of the old stuff anymore. But I could relate to sticking a screwdriver through the filter to get it off though from the days when I did.
And my time is worth more to me then that
No for less then $30 I can bring it to my local Bon ee fide Mech en ech 3 blocks away and get the oil changed fluids checked,joints lubed given a general once over.
I drop it off. Walk 2 buildings over. Grab a slice of pizza Walk 1 building ovr from that to the local Indian owned convenience store, Grab myself a can of Monster and a single lottery ticket., flirt with the hot hot HOT Indian chick there or when she is not there bust the chops of her brothers and husband and tease them how when I win the lottery Im gonna buy Cashmere so neither India nor Pakistan will own it or any number of other things.
Walk back pick up whichever vehicle I brought in pay for it and go home.
In less then 45 min I've had my vehicle seviced, I've been fed and Entertained or otherwise amused and I didnt bust a knuckle or get a stitch of grime on me.
Well worth the extra $15-20 dollars
Or you couls have a car like mine and not have tochange oil just adda quart every now and then, and watch it magically disappear.
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The thought of paying someone to change the oil in your vehicle has always cracked me up.
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The thought of getting one's hands dirty just to save a few $ has always cracked me up. :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
The thought of getting one's hands dirty just to save a few $ has always cracked me up. :D
Noooo we proved that it doesn't save money:lol
What do you drive DMF? Some Volvo with an aftermarket engine from Checker Autoparts? Funny story about those engines...involves an 18 year old, a Talon, and about 40 grand worth of maintenance and upgrades.;)
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a penny saved is tax free...
...anyway everyone knows that proper lubrication increases fuel economy & reduces the risk of trouble like swallowed valves & broken arms...
...certainly there are worse ways to get your hands dirty, like currying favor with the head boy at your public school
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Originally posted by beet1e
The thought of getting one's hands dirty just to save a few $ has always cracked me up. :D
The thought of people trusting some teenager at a gas station to change their oil has always cracked me up.
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I do everything on my car. Changing oil is a breeze with an impact wrench. I picked up some mechanic gloves with rubber palms, cracking the oil filter is quick and painless. I'm done in 20 minutes, unlike any of the local places, and I know I put quality oil in plus put on a quality oil filter.
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Originally posted by beet1e
The thought of getting one's hands dirty just to save a few $ has always cracked me up. :D
Never been afraid to get my hands dirty. Most anyone worth a damn isn`t.
Saving money has nothing to do with it. Knowing it is being done right does. It is also part of the enjoyment of owning any vehicle, be it auto or bike, boat, plane or whatever. If ya don`t know what makes er tick, you don`t deserve the ride.
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Natty, why the hell are you changing oil with an impact wrench? box wrench or ratchet would be fine. Be careful putting that plug back in or you'll be investing in a bigger one...and bigger...and soon a brand new oil pan.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Never been afraid to get my hands dirty. Most anyone worth a damn isn`t.
Saving money has nothing to do with it. Knowing it is being done right does. It is also part of the enjoyment of owning any vehicle, be it auto or bike, boat, plane or whatever. If ya don`t know what makes er tick, you don`t deserve the ride.
I didn't say I'd never done it, and I didn't say I don't know "what makes er tick". But why have a dog and bark yourself, as we say over here. ;) Yes I've done oil & filter changes - always remember to grease the rubber seal on the new filter! But it's hardly what I'd call "part of the enjoyment of owning any vehicle". When I changed the oil in the old Beetle I had, I did not change the filter. And with good reason. It didn't have one! There was just a strainer thing that had to be cleaned out.
But the modern cars use very little oil, and with the modern synthetic oils there's no need for changes between major (18000 mile) maintenance.
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See Rule #5
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Taking it off with an impact wrench, because it's an old car and the nut gets stuck a lot. You risk stripping it if the ratchet slips off a lot trying to pry it loose.
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Now that was funny!!!!
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beet... you might want to check that oil change schedule.. 18000 sounds a little bit long.. I don't think they even make a filter that is recomended for that length of time.
I have bought some mobil one that said 15000 but... I can't get myself to go past 6-7k depending.
lazs
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I don`t care if it`s synthetic, smynthetic, prosthetic or dropped off a space ship marked "magical", if you don`t change your oil at least every 5000 you are a mor............ummmmm ....very unwise.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Jackal you owe me a Keyboard. Gd funny magical he says.
Still chuckling as i read it again.
Now I got to drain fluids from keyboard (coffee).
Where did i put that impact wrench.
Bronk
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See Rule #5, #4
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i let the pros handle the dirty and moving bits (engine?) on the car
no idea what it costs
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See Rule #5, #4
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Vasoline is a petroleum based lubricant. You're not supposed to use it because it causes various types of rubbers to break down (ex: latex, neoprene). Unless you break out your chemist set and find out the specific compound of that oil filter o-ring, it's better safe than sorry. Why risk an eventual leak when you can just dab oil instead of using something with the potential to cause damage? I thought you were a better safe than sorry kinda guy Beet :)
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Just FYI, and off topic. I grow weary of the same people making the same type of posts, over and over again, which need to be removed as they are highly negative, abrasive, and just flat nasty.
Either change your ways, or move along to another board as your time here will be very short if those habits are not changed.
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Skuzz - can't for the life of me see why you clipped that post, but OK. Let's just leave the Audi service interval in.
Audi Service Interval
Lazs - The right hand table below is the one I'm on. As you can see, the (variable) service interval can be as high as 20,000 miles, or two years.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/audioil.jpg)
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Mora mentioned the cost of oil. The oil I use - and a litre of it was supplied by Audi when I bought the car so I know it's the right type - is Castrol SLX, viscosity is 0W-30, and costs about £14 (~$25) for a litre. However, if you're a low mileage user on the Interval Service schedule (10,000 miles), a different type of oil is used.
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Recommended service intervals vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. My car requires oil changes every 5,000 miles (I change it every 3,000 miles). It explicitly states not to use synthetic oils.
I have been around cars all my life. Worked in many dealerships as well. One thing I know for sure is the automobile manufacturer has no interest in making your car last as long as it could.
Oxidation in today's oils are not as big a problem as it used to be. But, there is still the presence of fuel vapor, which over time, does break down the additives in the oil causing it to slowly lose the ability to suspend particulate matter. Many fuel additives expedite this process.
Diesel fuel is less of a problem than gasoline, which is one reason a diesel can go much further than a gas engine between oil changes.
Oh, mora, we have the same oils available here that you do. I use Pennzoil PZL Turbo, or Castrol GT in my engines. The PZL Turbo is difficult to find, but it really makes a difference in the smoothness and spinup of the engine.
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FYI, this is advice for non-synthetic oils. FWIW:My BMW owners manual says every 15,000 miles, but I change it every 10,000.
March 2, 2006
Don’t Change Your Oil Too Frequently
Here’s a money saving tip for you… Don’t change your oil any more than necessary. The idea of changing you oil every three months or 3,000 miles has been pounded into our heads by the oil change industry for years. But is it really necessary? Maybe, maybe not. But many people buy into the idea that frequent oil changes are “cheap insurance,” so why not do it?
While changing your car’s oil too often won’t hurt it, doing so is a waste of money. And besides, if you go to one of those Quicky-Lube places to get your oil changed, do you really want a minimum wage grease monkey messing with your car any more than is absolutely necessary?
According to Tom and Ray Magliozzi (a.k.a., Click & Clack of Car Talk fame), a general rule of thumb would be to change your oil and filter every 5,000 miles. They do, however, recognize that this will be too soon for many people, and a bit late for a few.
As far as I’m concerned, the best approach is to check your owner’s manual. While some cars still need to have their oil changed every 3,000 miles, others can safely go as far as 10,000 miles between changes. Keep in mind that most manufacturers recommend a shorter interval between oil changes if you drive under ‘extreme conditions’ such as extremely high temperature, exceptionally dirty/dusty operating conditions, regularly towing a load, or frequent short trips in cold weather. If you’re concerned, err on the side of the extreme driving conditions. But there’s no need to blindly follow the 3,000 mile rule of thumb.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
One thing I know for sure is the automobile manufacturer has no interest in making your car last as long as it could.
I can see where you're coming from on that, but remember - back in the 1970s, we had cars which required oil changes every 3000 miles. So clearly something has changed - in engine design, oil technology. What type of car is yours, skuzzy?
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2006 Lexus IS250. I change mine more often as I do a high percentage of in-town, short distance driving.
A lot has changed since the 70's. One of the primary reasons engines do not need oil changes as often as they did is due to the use of electronic fuel injection. Less fuel vapor finds its way into the crankcase of today's engines versus engines of yore.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
2006 Lexus IS250. I change mine more often as I do a high percentage of in-town, short distance driving.
And high heat area, considered "extreme" environmental conditions. Glad to see you are taking care of your car, Skuzzy! :aok Should last you 300k or so (if you own it that long)
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I keep my cars for 10 years, regardless of the mileage.
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I've only owned 3 "new" cars in 30 years of driving, a 1980 F150 that I sold when laid off in '82, a 1991 F150 I owned for 12 years, and my current BMW that I've owned for 5 years. Looks like my average is 8.5 years. The rest were beaters. Thats how I saved money to pay cash for my most recent car. :D
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I keep my cars for 10 years, regardless of the mileage.
so if it breaks down after 3 then you just sit in it and make engine noises while turning the weel?
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Originally posted by Nilsen
so if it breaks down after 3 then you just sit in it and make engine noises while turning the weel?
You mean you've never seen a picture of Texas Home landscaping? ;)
(http://www.brit.ca/~tboicey/junkyard/pics/junkyard_002.jpg)
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Originally posted by beet1e
I can see where you're coming from on that, but remember - back in the 1970s, we had cars which required oil changes every 3000 miles. So clearly something has changed - in engine design, oil technology.
The biggest difference is in the oil itself. The modern motor oils have much better detergent qualities, more resistant to oxidisation, the hydrocarbon chains (from which the oil consists of) retains their form better, etc.
Also oil filtering is more developed. Electronic ingnition and fuel injection systems have made the combustion process cleaner, and very little fuel gets in contact with the oil. The fuels itself are cleaner and de facto sulphur free. Even the manufacturing tolerances are smaller and less combustion gases get in contact with the oil. All these issues have an effect on oil change interval and there are probably some facts I missed.
And I'll risk it and say it again... The reason why oil change intervals are smaller in the US is the direct result of the availability of very cheap mineral lowgrade motor oil(according to oil industry people). This evens out to cost difference to longer oilchange intervals in the other parts of the western world. A typical 18k oil change in Europe including filter would be in the order of $70 to $100 or even more. The situation in the the US obviously favors the "Jiffy Lube" type of busineses. In Europe oil changes are usually made when the car is serviced at a dealership.
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Good post, Mora - very informative.
It's a long time ago now, but when I owned a car in the US, what I noticed was that there was no recognisable service schedule or network of service agents. There didn't seem to be anything akin to what I would have known as a "6000 mile service". Instead, you got your transmission serviced at Aamco, you got your brakes done somewhere else, you got your oil changed at the "Jiffy Lube", and as I recall, there was no vehicle manufacturer recommendation as to the interval between these various checks.
This is very different from Europe where, as Mora says, you take your vehicle for service at ONE place - for new cars this is likely to be the vehicle manufacturer's own service facility. There, they will use the electronic plug in job and produce a report from the car telling them what work needs doing.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Good post, Mora - very informative.
It's a long time ago now, but when I owned a car in the US, what I noticed was that there was no recognisable service schedule or network of service agents. There didn't seem to be anything akin to what I would have known as a "6000 mile service". Instead, you got your transmission serviced at Aamco, you got your brakes done somewhere else, you got your oil changed at the "Jiffy Lube", and as I recall, there was no vehicle manufacturer recommendation as to the interval between these various checks.
This is very different from Europe where, as Mora says, you take your vehicle for service at ONE place - for new cars this is likely to be the vehicle manufacturer's own service facility. There, they will use the electronic plug in job and produce a report from the car telling them what work needs doing.
Its called a "Dealership" here Beet. The other options you listed are cheaper (in most cases) alternatives. No monopolies like Europe. ;) Capitalism at its best! ;)
Incidently, you can "plug" your car in at any Autozone autoparts store, they diagnose your car for free and tell you what part you need. :aok Its the only way to go if you're a DIY'er.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Good post, Mora - very informative.
It's a long time ago now, but when I owned a car in the US, what I noticed was that there was no recognisable service schedule or network of service agents. There didn't seem to be anything akin to what I would have known as a "6000 mile service". Instead, you got your transmission serviced at Aamco, you got your brakes done somewhere else, you got your oil changed at the "Jiffy Lube", and as I recall, there was no vehicle manufacturer recommendation as to the interval between these various checks.
This is very different from Europe where, as Mora says, you take your vehicle for service at ONE place - for new cars this is likely to be the vehicle manufacturer's own service facility. There, they will use the electronic plug in job and produce a report from the car telling them what work needs doing.
Toyotas have service schedules. Minor service every 5k (oil change, filter, check air filter, top off fluids). 15k, 30k, & 60k services are bigger. Brake pads, air filter, spark plugs, type IV ATF on some of the new stuff.. don't have my old cheatsheet anymore so I can't say what the exact differences are. Alot of parts on a car are designed to wear out over a specific period of time. They could be indestructible, but then nobody could afford them.
The reason people go to "jiffy lube" instead of a dealership is the $$ difference for labor hours, and sometimes parts. The jiffy lubes can get the parts for 20-30% off MSRP (from the dealership), and may or may not charge you the difference (usually they do). A dealership will charge you MSRP or matrix 99% of the time (matrix = MSRP + 2-10% to pad the part's managers & retail counterman's checks). That's just parts, the average labor price in most of Houston is $70/hr at dealerships. Shops can and will go $50/hr & less.
Those smaller chains will keep thriving until manufacturers adopt self-tightening, rfid bolts mainstream (already been invented). Then, only an authorized technician will even be able to get the engine cover off.
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mora... what cheap oils are you talking about? We have the same oil available here as you do. Are you saying that it is simply sold for a lower price here? Are you saying that mobil 1 is a cheap oil?
I can buy 5 quart container of mobil one for about $21.
skuzzy... why do you suppose your manufacturer does not want you to use synthetic... seems synthetic would be ideal for your area and type of driving.
beet... forgot your car was a diesel.... you would have longer times between oil changes... I would still go with the lower 10,000 mile one tho. I would imagine that high speed trips on the autobaun would be considered "sporty" driving by them.
lazs
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Mobil 1(the cheapest one) is $40 here for 4l... But I believe most people in the US don't use synthetic oils like Mobil 1 but very cheap mineral oils like "Valvoline 10W-40 API SG, which have to be changed at 6k miles. I don't know why people insist on an oil change every 3k, there's absolutely no need for that in normal use with any type of motor oil sold these days.
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You are speculating mora and I do not have a clue what you base that off of. My Wife's car uses Mobil 1, and has been using it for the last 150,000 miles. Your general statement about most people in the U.S. using cheap oil is just wrong.
Name me someone you personally know who uses cheap oil. I certainly do not know anyone.
One possible reason the service intervals may be shorter could be due to climate. Like Rip noted, here in Texas we have to deal with temperature ranges from 0F to 120F. The high temperatures damage oil very quickly.
The driving conditions here in the U.S. is quite a bit different from Europe as well.
Lazs, I asked the service manager about the reasoning behind not using synthetic oils. He told me it was due to the direct injection fuel system. Apparently there needs to be another API upgrade to synthetics before Toyota/Lexus is comfortable with synthetics and these particular engines.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Good post, Mora - very informative.
It's a long time ago now, but when I owned a car in the US, what I noticed was that there was no recognisable service schedule or network of service agents. There didn't seem to be anything akin to what I would have known as a "6000 mile service". Instead, you got your transmission serviced at Aamco, you got your brakes done somewhere else, you got your oil changed at the "Jiffy Lube", and as I recall, there was no vehicle manufacturer recommendation as to the interval between these various checks.
One reason why that works in the US is that there's no mandatory vehicle testing(MOT) you can drive your car until the brakes fail completely and take it to a "brake shop", hopefully not causing an accident on the way there, and when something else fails you take it to another shop. Here you would have to take it to 5 different shops once a year, which would be inpractical.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
You are speculating mora and I do not have a clue what you base that off of. My Wife's car uses Mobil 1, and has been using it for the last 150,000 miles. Your general statement about most people in the U.S. using cheap oil is just wrong.
I've heard it from several people here and in the US after asking, and I've personally seen the "Jiffy Lubes" advertising the $20 oil changes, and assumed based on what others have told me that's what most people take when they have an oil change. I've also seen a service manual for US and Euro version of an indentical vehicle(Ford Focus?? can't remember for sure), and the Euro version had twice the oil change interval, and the specified oil was of a much higher grade. There's no other reasonable explanation for it, than having lower oil change interval in favor for using lower grade oils. The climate does not explain it. Compared to Texas, Nordic coutries have larger temperature variations, more humid climate, and below freezing temperatures. Yet the oil change intervals are the same (12k to 18k) as in the rest of the Europe. I've never seen a study which would indicate that those would be too long intervals, and neither did the teacher(D. Sc.) whose lubrication technology course I participated.
Maybe I'm wrong then, I have no problem with anyone using cheap oils. As I've said there's no major price difference, you just need to change it more often, which I consider a disadvantage.
I don't consider myself an expert in this particular field, but I have studied automotive stuff for 7 years and have a B.Sc in automotive engineering, so I do feel confident about things I've said here.
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dup. post
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Originally posted by mora
One reason why that works in the US is that there's no mandatory vehicle testing(MOT) you can drive your car until the brakes fail completely and take it to a "brake shop", hopefully not causing an accident on the way there, and when something else fails you take it to another shop. Here you would have to take it to 5 different shops once a year, which would be inpractical.
Mora, not true. There are more than 30 states that have mandatory vehicle inspections. Just about all have mandatory emissions testing.
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What Rip said. Even Texas (considered backwards by most people) requires an annual inspection (new cars first inspection after two years) and emissions test.
What we do not have is a good drivers license test. If you can walk into the drivers license station, you are pretty assured to get a drivers license.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Mora, not true. There are more than 30 states that have mandatory vehicle inspections. Just about all have mandatory emissions testing.
Was aware of the emission testing, but otherwise it's news to me, I've allways thought that this concept was rejected in the US.
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Originally posted by Bronk
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Jackal you owe me a Keyboard. Gd funny magical he says.
Still chuckling as i read it again.
Now I got to drain fluids from keyboard (coffee).
Where did i put that impact wrench.
Bronk
:aok
Hehe. Borrow Beet`s. He don`t use it.
As for the Valvoline disser.............I wouldn`t use anything else in anything over a four cylinder............which I would`t have. Great oil for high performance, heavy use. Also use Valvoline aircraft oil in the Harley.
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So jackall, have you read the Audi maintenance schedule that I posted? I embedded it so you wouldn't have to download it. See where it says oil service interval - up to 20K miles? :D:D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Mora, not true. There are more than 30 states that have mandatory vehicle inspections. Just about all have mandatory emissions testing.
I’ve owned cars in Alaska, Hawaii, Colorado and Ohio. Only in Hawaii was there a required inspection beyond emissions. Those Nazis made me replace a cracked blinker lens on my old Audi. It was cracked; mind you, not broken or missing the slightest bit of plastic. In Alaska you could duct tape an orange plastic newspaper bag over the spot where the lens used to be and call it good.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
I’ve owned cars in Alaska, Hawaii, Colorado and Ohio. Only in Hawaii was there a required inspection beyond emissions. Those Nazis made me replace a cracked blinker lens on my old Audi. It was cracked; mind you, not broken or missing the slightest bit of plastic. In Alaska you could duct tape an orange plastic newspaper bag over the spot where the lens used to be and call it good.
:rofl ^^
Just about every state east of the mississippi have state vehicle inspections. (last count was 34 states nation-wide) Our state (WA) doesn't have a mandatory vehicle inspection but it does have mandatory emissions testing.
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Originally posted by beet1e
So jackall, have you read the Audi maintenance schedule that I posted? I embedded it so you wouldn't have to download it. See where it says oil service interval - up to 20K miles? :D:D
So beet, do you understand now that we do have recognisable service schedule and a network of service agents in the U.S.? :rofl
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So beet, do you understand now that we do have recognisable service schedule and a network of service agents in the U.S.? :rofl
Can you post it in the thread? I posted mine. I know you're good at cutting and pasting. :D
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Oh, the sun has set and risen again - still no word from jackall about the 20K oil change. :confused:;)
Originally posted by eskimo2
In Alaska you could duct tape an orange plastic newspaper bag over the spot where the lens used to be and call it good.
When I was in CA in 1979, I was amazed at some of the cars I saw which their owners at least deemed to be "roadworthy". The funniest was a large sedan/saloon which had been in a crash and had damaged the front corner. The whole headlight assembly had been smashed up, and what remained was left dangling on a piece of wire. The owner was driving around like that! Wish I'd taken a photo.
Over here, all cars are subject to an annual "MOT Test" when they turn 3 years old. eskimo's car would not have passed with that duct tape. No damage is allowed to the light clusters, and the windscreen/windshield must be undamaged - no stone chips in the area in front of the driver. The numberplate must be undamaged. Even the windscreen washers have to be working!
Full details of test - http://www.motcentrefinder.co.uk/nav/info_pages/checklist_mot.htm
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Originally posted by Jackal1
:As for the Valvoline disser.............I wouldn`t use anything else in anything over a four cylinder............which I would`t have. Great oil for high performance, heavy use. Also use Valvoline aircraft oil in the Harley.
I couldn't agree more, it's good oil.
Nothing goes in my 351c except Valvoline mineral oil, and I keep it in there a max of 5k miles before changing it...engine oil is relativly cheap. 10 years of flogging the ring out of the car every chance I get and the engine still runs as sweet as it did when I bolted it together, no smoke, rattles or knocks and it never needs topping-up between oil changes. I got no need for synthetic oil, it offers no advantage and would probably only piss out past the crank seals anyway.
Excel
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Originally posted by beet1e
Over here, all cars are subject to an annual "MOT Test" when they turn 3 years old. eskimo's car would not have passed with that duct tape. No damage is allowed to the light clusters, and the windscreen/windshield must be undamaged - no stone chips in the area in front of the driver. The numberplate must be undamaged. Even the windscreen washers have to be working!
About the same as here. A car with a cracked rear light wouldn't be failed though. It would be a category 1 fault at most, which you can have up to 3 and still pass, but the "1" faults are written behind the registration.
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Sounds just like our annual inspection in Texas beet. Except it starts after two years for new cars, and some windshield chipping and/or minor cracks are allowed as long as it does not interfere with the view from the drivers seat.
Windsheild wipers must be functional, headlights must be correctly aligned, tires cannot be worn down to or past the wear bars, all factory lenses must be intact, emissions must pass, turn signals must be functional, seat belts cannot be worn/frayed, license plate (I believe you called it a "number plate") lights must be operational, and a host of other little things.
A sticker is affixed to the windshield, visible from the outside, which carries the month and year of the next inspection due.
Now, with that said, there are a number of illegal ways to circumvent this whole process. There are counterfeit stickers, inspection stations which can be bribed to slap the sticker in place without doing the inspection, and so on.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Recommended service intervals vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. My car requires oil changes every 5,000 miles (I change it every 3,000 miles). It explicitly states not to use synthetic oils.
FYI in France for a IS250 oil change is at 15000km (about 9000miles)
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That's interesting straffo. Do you happen to have the API standards for the IS250 handy for the oil required? Also, what is the horsepower rating? What is the minimum octane fuel which can be used?
The U.S. version is rated at 204HP. The fuel octane is 91, or better.
I just wonder how much this has to do with emission controls as well.
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mora... even in the states that require no inspection... if you take your car in for anything.... it can't be repaired if there are safety items that need repair first.... they can't put wheel bearings on a wheel with bad brakes say.
I do not believe in safety inspections and note that states that do not have em do not have a higher overall or even equipment related accident rate.
They are a ripoff and just more government interferance.
I believe that the reason they started was not for suspension and brakes and such but because.... like you in ice bear country... our states with severe winters put salt on the roads and killed the cars in a few years.... rust was the main concern originaly... course.. no government program every stays the way it claimed it was meant to be..
lazs
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Now, with that said, there are a number of illegal ways to circumvent this whole process. There are counterfeit stickers, inspection stations which can be bribed to slap the sticker in place without doing the inspection, and so on.
A English friend of mine, now living in Arkansas, once told me that when he came to book an MoT Test and asked the garage how much it would cost, the reply was "...depends whether or not you bring the car in"! Ah, the 1970s - heady days...
BTW historically the octane rating for American fuel has been much lower than in Europe. I believe Regular in the US is still 87 octane, or even 85 in certain high altitude areas. 91 was at one time considered to be super plus! Back in the day, this was probably because of ubiquitous low compression V8 engines, whereas here we've had high compression, high revving engines for as long as I can remember. Over here, we had a star system *=91 octane, **=93, ***=95, ****=97/99 and *****=101. The '73 oil crisis killed off 5* 101, and not many cars would run on *91 octane (the beetle would!) so that went too. In 1988 we began to see the first deliveries of unleaded. Now all cars have a CAT. There are basically two kinds of petrol - 95 octane unleaded, and 98 octane unleaded. Almost all cars will run on 95. That's what I used in all my 6-cyl petrol cars.
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beet.... different ways of rating octane are the reasons not the actual difference in the fuel. your cars will run better on our 91 than on your 95
lazs
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
That's interesting straffo. Do you happen to have the API standards for the IS250 handy for the oil required? Also, what is the horsepower rating? What is the minimum octane fuel which can be used?
The U.S. version is rated at 204HP. The fuel octane is 91, or better.
I just wonder how much this has to do with emission controls as well.
I don't know what API standard is I guess you're speaking of the kind of oil to use ? it's 5W-30 concerning fuel we can choose between 95 or 98
Here it's rated 208ch at 6.400rpm (+4 hp naner naner ;) )
The spec I have are :
Moteur : 2.5L V6 24s VVT-i
Puissance : 208 ch à 6400 tr/mn
Couple : 252 Nm à 4800 tr/mn
0-100 km/h : 8,1 (8.4) s
Vitesse max : 225 (220) km/h
Conso. l/100: 13.5/7.7/9.8 (12.7/7.0/9.1)
Emission CO2: 214 g/km
I'm trying to get a used one but for the moment the cost is to high :
IS250 Pack Luxe (auto) : 39000€
IS250 Pack Executive (auto): 46600€
IS250 Pack Sport (auto) : 45300€
the price are for a brand new
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Originally posted by beet1e
BTW historically the octane rating for American fuel has been much lower than in Europe. I believe Regular in the US is still 87 octane, or even 85 in certain high altitude areas. 91 was at one time considered to be super plus! Back in the day, this was probably because of ubiquitous low compression V8 engines, whereas here we've had high compression, high revving engines for as long as I can remember. Over here, we had a star system *=91 octane, **=93, ***=95, ****=97/99 and *****=101. The '73 oil crisis killed off 5* 101, and not many cars would run on *91 octane (the beetle would!) so that went too. In 1988 we began to see the first deliveries of unleaded. Now all cars have a CAT. There are basically two kinds of petrol - 95 octane unleaded, and 98 octane unleaded. Almost all cars will run on 95. That's what I used in all my 6-cyl petrol cars.
Beet,
Are you that naive? :rofl
Europe octane ratings appear higher because they use RON scale, we use an average of MON and RON.
http://www.t-r-i.com/gifs/xGasoline%20Quality.pdf
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I see one really big difference straffo. The IS250 CO2 emissions are very different.
Translated to pounds/mile, yours is 0.759 pounds/mile.
The IS250 sold here is rated at (must be below this to pass state inspection) 0.565 pounds/mile.
Did you get the figures for the 4WD or 2WD version? CO2 emissions are higher for the 4WD version (true of most 4WD cars).
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Oh! OK. :aok
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i get my truck serviced every ten days or 10k miles which ever comes first. for about 250.00 usd heres what they do
change oil 10 gallons mobil1 15-40 synthetic
change oil filters 2
change fuel filters 2
change water filter 1
lube truck
check trans
check axle differentials 2
adjust brakes 6
lube trailer
adjust brakes 4
in three years i have put 625317 miles on the kw. lipstick (really bright red) should be good for about 2 million miles with this service schedule
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Originally posted by beet1e
So jackall, have you read the Audi maintenance schedule that I posted? I embedded it so you wouldn't have to download it. See where it says oil service interval - up to 20K miles? :D:D
So Beetle, have you taken a close look at Audi dealerships around your area? Do they look prosperous? Look like they are making some serious bucks?
Follow those instructions. Adopt an Audi dealer in your area today. Your contributions are appreciated. :D
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Don't know, Jackal! I hardly ever need to go by my Audi "dealership". Oh wait, I got that litre of oil there this week. They look like they're doing OK, despite the length of time between visits by their customers. :)
I'm just about to rack up my 10,000th mile, which will happen tomorrow. Only another ~8000 miles, and I'll be due for an oil change!
:aok:D
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Originally posted by NattyIced
I do everything on my car. Changing oil is a breeze with an impact wrench. I picked up some mechanic gloves with rubber palms, cracking the oil filter is quick and painless. I'm done in 20 minutes, unlike any of the local places, and I know I put quality oil in plus put on a quality oil filter.
Your better than me, I do everything TOO my car, the guy at the garage fixes it for me.
Hey I know where the gas and oil go give me a break.
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Well, your quite a mechanic:aok :lol
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Originally posted by beet1e
Oh wait, I got that litre of oil there this week.
So...........your car is using oil ? I wonder why.......... :aok
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Originally posted by Jackal1
So...........your car is using oil ? I wonder why.......... :aok
Jackal!!! Well, my understanding of it goes like this. The cylinders will eventually have a slightly ovoid shape when the engine is bedded in, caused by the slight sideways motion associated with the crank mechanism. When an engine is new, there's no way the makers can machine the pistons/cylinders to make a perfect fit in view of this, so the original fit is deliberately set a little tight to allow for the running in process. The pistons will be bedded in after a few thousand miles. During the first 1500km, the vehicle manufacture cautions against excessive engine speeds. In the old days of long stroke engines (1960s) some cars had to be driven very carefully indeed - no more than about 50mph. (The Morris Minor had to be driven at no more than 30mph for the first 500 miles! But that was a bread and butter car with a 4 cylinder engine for the masses - it would be of no interest to you) The crucial thing here is mean piston speed. With today's short stroke engines, improved oils and engineering techniques, the running in requirements are much less stringent. They just say don't use full throttle in that first 1500km, don't go past 4000rpm, don't tow anything and don't go faster than ¾ of the vehicle's top speed - so I was able to do 90mph from the first day.
During this time when the engine is bedding in, it is understandable that a small amount of oil will be consumed. This tallies exactly with the oil consumption of my original Golf VR6 - Within the first 10,000 miles, I had to add about a litre of oil. After that, it never used any oil between services, which on that car were at 10,000 mile intervals. I kept that car for 3½ years and 66,000 miles. The next car I had with a modified version of the same V6 engine never needed any oil added at all! It went about 13,000 miles between services. The one after that was my 1.9L diesel. Again, it needed a small amount of oil in the first 10,000 miles - and I think it needed about another 1 litre in the next 38,000 miles. But again, this is normal and I was told to expect it with a diesel engine. In fact my overall oil consumption was less than VW told me to expect.
So - my bumper sticker says "adopt a "dealership", and yours reads "adopt an engine oil retailer" :D
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See Rule #4
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Google`s lights just flickered. :rofl
Should have used a break in oil the first 500 to 1000, dumped it and went with permanent after that. If it was using oil after that and it were mine I`d be concerned. Of course I`m not big into depending on canned instructions and suggestions. I pretty well go with common sense.
Bought a new Cummins once and it was using oil after what I considered reasonable break in. Kept a log of oil usage for a few trips and back to the dealer we went. Cummins had changed from their normal supplier to a German company for their piston rings that year. Of course they didn`t tell you that , it wasn`t mentioned in the manual, nor did they tell you that they were experiencing problems with them. You more or less knew there was a prob on your own or went with the oil usage.
I demanded that it be set straight. The dealer balked, but when I contacted Cummins they more than readily agreed to take care of it and were more than a little upset with their dealer.
I left it with the dealer and went fishing while the work was being done. Funny thing was that when I went to pick it up the dealer had a prepared bill for the oil and filter. Not a small bill for a 400. I went to the head man and told him to stuff his bill for that and that it had oil and a new filter in it when I brought it in. Problem solved, no bill. :rofl
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Should have used a break in oil the first 500 to 1000, dumped it and went with permanent after that.
Nope. Euro engines used to need a "break in" oil, but no longer. The last car I had that needed that was a 1982 Ford. I had a couple of Toyotas in the late 80s/early 90s. Can't remember if they used a "break in" oil. I don't think they did. There used to be an initial 1000 mile service on cars here at which point they'd change the oil - get rid of the "break in" oil and put in "normal" oil. That's no longer the case. Of course I`m not big into depending on canned instructions and suggestions. I pretty well go with common sense.
I can't see how it's possible to improve on common sense by doing something other than what the vehicle's own maker recommends. I think someone would look silly walking into a vehicle "dealership", and telling them that the service recommendation for their own cars was bollocks. :rofl
Cummins diesel? Hey! There's an outside chance that the 64ft boat I'll sail on in August will have a Cummins engine. But it's more likely to be a Lister (specialist in marine diesel) or possibly a Perkins. Is Cummins American?
Hehe, I had a minor disagreement with a newbie service agent at VW a few years ago. I took the car in for service at ~13,000 miles, and this kid said I should have brought it in at 10,000, and suggested that I might have voided the warranty. I said I'd done exactly what the handbook said, and acted in accordance with the service indicator on the dash. A more senior service agent took over, explained that there were two service schedules and that I'd been put on the wrong one! All sorted out, warranty intact. :aok
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If your engine burns oil in the first 50,000 miles, you didn't break your engine in properly. Letting the piston rings seat properly by varying speed and not exceeding manufacturer recommended rpm during break in cycle is important during the first 1,000 miles. Happy to say my BMW has never burned a drop. When I do an oil change after 8-10k miles, I get back exactly what I put into it. :aok
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
If your engine burns oil in the first 50,000 miles, you didn't break your engine in properly. Letting the piston rings seat properly by varying speed and not exceeding manufacturer recommended rpm during break in cycle is important during the first 1,000 miles.
Not quite. As you say, in the first few thousand miles, the rings won't have seated properly - and therefore oil can get past. If my engine had not been broken in properly, it would have continued to burn oil - beyond the initial period of ~10,000 miles. It didn't. :aok
Furthermore, I have never had engine problems in any of the cars I've owned in the past 25 years. When I do an oil change after 8-10k miles, I get back exactly what I put into it.
I always remember a guy crowing to this effect in one of the motoring journals. The editor's response was something like "if your engine oil is coming out nice and clean, it probably means that it's leaving your engine nice and dirty!"
:rofl
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"Break in oil" was a 60's thing... Some racing engine builders still use it and some don't.
Modern cars don't need a break in oil, or even a break in many case(according to manufacturers), but I guess it doesn't hurt. Why is there less need for a brek in these days? It's because of smaller manufacturing tolerances and better materials.
Some examples of identical engines use more oil than others, but this isn't usually due to a lack off break in. The engine in question might have just happened to get a piston(s) and/or rings on the low side of the tolerances, and cylinder(s) on the high side by a pure coincidence. To avoid liability the manufacturers specify a maximum allowable oil consumption of 1l/1000km, but I'd say anything above 0.3l/1000km on the long run is abnormal.
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Originally posted by mora
"Break in oil" was a 60's thing...
Mora - a lot of these guys drive vehicles which employ 60s technology, and don't understand modern cars or oils. That's why they still think that cars need an oil change every 5000 miles, and still think a "break in" oil is needed. Best we give them a chance to catch up to modern times. They'll get it eventually!
:D
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Originally posted by mora
"Break in oil" was a 60's thing... Some racing engine builders still use it and some don't.
Modern cars don't need a break in oil, or even a break in many case(according to manufacturers), but I guess it doesn't hurt. Why is there less need for a brek in these days? It's because of smaller manufacturing tolerances and better materials.
Some examples of identical engines use more oil than others, but this isn't usually due to a lack off break in. The engine in question might have just happened to get a piston(s) and/or rings on the low side of the tolerances, and cylinder(s) on the high side by a pure coincidence. To avoid liability the manufacturers specify a maximum allowable oil consumption of 1l/1000km, but I'd say anything above 0.3l/1000km on the long run is abnormal.
Mora, you're totally misinformed. Please show me facts and data that break in is no longer needed.
ost manufacturers have recommendations in the handbooks.
Basically you start off treating the engine very gently i.e. gentle revs and never more than 1/4 throttle. Over time you gradually use more revs and more throttle until you eventually end up using the full range of the engine. It is important to eventually end up using all the power and rev range to wear harden various parts. It is also important that you do not keep to a single continuous speed or gear but vary your speed quite a bit during this time (a long highway journey is NOT a good break in if you just sit in top gear at a continuous speed). This is because things are still hardening up and you can wear a groove into them.
Modern engines break in relatively quickly, often 1000km, older designs took longer as the tolerances were not as precise. The first oil change is often a lot sooner than later ones as during break in rough edges from manufacturing will be worn off and end up in the oil.
Here is more advice from other FAQ Farmers:
* Drive it gently. general rule is not to exceed 3000 - 3500 rpm. for the first 500 miles. It is also a good idea to be kind to it for the first 2000 miles.
* Rule #1 if you want your engine to last a long time, treat it gentle all the time, not just for the first 1000km.
* Break in is important. All engine bearings and cylinders, etc. must wear evenly and proper. Also, piston rings need to seat. Have you ever seen a new engine burn oil until it breaks in? Some piston ring take up to 5000 miles to fully seat or wear evenly to cylinder bore. Not following proper break in proceders could result in premature engine/parts failure.
* This depends whether you purchase or lease a car. With a purchase you should break a car in for the reasons and using the methods described before, ignoring the one comment about it being bull****. If the vehicle is a lease you may skip the break-in period if you so wish. Since not breaking-in a car may result in improper wear of parts, or even engine failure, during the warranty period it will be covered, and a leased car will be returned to the dealer before the warranty period expires.
* You shouldn't just break-in your car if you are buying it. Even if you are leasing it you should. Do the next guy a favor. A very inconsiderate answer man. Besides some people lease it and then decide they like it and want to buy it, so I say, you should break it in anyway. No matter what.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Mora, you're totally misinformed. Please show me facts and data that break in is no longer needed.
He didn't say that. He said that a break in oil is a thing of the past. Having said that, I can tell you that the VW Beetle handbook for the old air cooled engines gave NO break-in recommendations. The engine was ready to be abused from Day1.
I still say that the manufacturer's handbook overrides any of these dubious nuggets of advice seen on a BBS, or heard in a bar - especially if it's after 10pm. :lol
As for your quoted advice... Basically you start off treating the engine very gently i.e. gentle revs and never more than 1/4 throttle.
Do you know anything about light aircraft engines, Rip? The advice you gave here is the absolute worst thing you could possibly do to an aircraft engine during its break-in period. (I'll explain later if there's sufficient interest, but be warned - it might be after 10pm and I'll have been to the pub LOL.) My point is that different engines need different treatment. Just because an American V8 designed in the 1960s needs an oil change every 5000 miles, it doesn't follow that a modern engine needs the same. One size does not fit all.
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And yet, both Volvo and Lexus (possibly more, but I only have direct access to those two makes owners manuals) still recommend oil changes every 5,000 miles. Neither of which uses an American engine.
It appears a reason for this is the emissions systems in the cars sold here.
Curious, outside of the U.S., what type of federal (or whatever your countries governing law makers is called) laws are there regarding emidsions systems in cars? I am not talking about the actual requirement levels, but the service levels.
Do other countries require the manufacturer to warranty emissions controls beyond the normal warranty? There are many cases where the U.S. federal courts have forced car manufacturers to repair the emissions controls on vehicles for periods up to 14 years and up to 150,000 miles.
Are there similar things, like this, happening in the rest of the world? Just curious.
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beet... we are talking about 3 entirely different mechanical situations (four if you count direct injection skuzzy) here and...
That may be the confusion.... diesel motors are different service and break in than air cooled gas engines than are water coooled gas engines.
lazs
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Wait a minute,...beet's car is a diesel? Well sheez,...that makes a ton of difference. All my owner's manuals quotes are for gasoline engines. Diesel and gasoline engines have very different service intervals.
I did find out why Lexus does not want you to use synthetic oils. There is a common molecule in all synthetics, which is highly corrosive to certain materials. The tip of the injectors in the direct injection fuel system is subject to being corroded by that molecule.
Apparently the injector tips have a high content of carbon (probably to withstand the constant exposure to burning fuel vapor), which is something synthetics will dissolve.
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skuzzy - here's a link to the Volvo service schedule for cars with petrol engines: http://www.volvocars.co.uk/VolvoOwnership/VolvoService/_Service+Interval+Summary+Petrol.htm As you will see, for most models it's a 12,500 miles or in some cases 18000 mile service interval.
There's another one for diesel. Gotta run - meeting a friend for a beer. Back later - I won't have too many. ;)
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Must be emission related then as the manaufacturer's service interval is based on them changing the oil.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I see one really big difference straffo. The IS250 CO2 emissions are very different.
Translated to pounds/mile, yours is 0.759 pounds/mile.
The IS250 sold here is rated at (must be below this to pass state inspection) 0.565 pounds/mile.
Did you get the figures for the 4WD or 2WD version? CO2 emissions are higher for the 4WD version (true of most 4WD cars).
I've been unable to find if it was for a 2WD or 4WD (btw I think the 4WD is not availlable here)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Nope. Euro engines used to need a "break in" oil, but no longer. The last car I had that needed that was a 1982 Ford. I had a couple of Toyotas in the late 80s/early 90s. Can't remember if they used a "break in" oil. I don't think they did. There used to be an initial 1000 mile service on cars here at which point they'd change the oil - get rid of the "break in" oil and put in "normal" oil. That's no longer the case.
Every engine has a break in period. You need to change the oil by 500 or max 1000 miles. I don`t care if it came from Mars.
You recently mentioned what you refered to as the the "strainer thing" on the Beetle instead of an oil filter. If you were paying attention you would also have noticed that the oil plug in the center of the "strainer thing" was magnetic. It was put there to attract metal particles from wear.
Especial during the break in period of any engine you will have some metal wear while it is seating in. that`s why you use a break in period , then change the oil at 500 to 1000 max. If you don`t , your are wearing your own engine out. That`s where the common sense part comes in. :)
I can't see how it's possible to improve on common sense by doing something other than what the vehicle's own maker recommends.
See reference to common sense above. :)
I think someone would look silly walking into a vehicle "dealership", and telling them that the service recommendation for their own cars was bollocks.
I think someone would be more than a little silly if they didn`t already know better. :rofl
The maker and dealer are there to sell you their cars. If you wear one out fast, then more power to you. It suits them just fine.
I have seen some of the most absolute brain dead people calling themselves mechanics working for dealers, so I wouldn`t put too much faith in some of them. Not all, but a lot.
I have a friend who has ran his own garage since graduating high school. He employees 7 to 10 mechanics. When the dealer mechanics in the area get stumped, they bring the cars to him to straightened out. He actualy knows his business instead of what someone who thinks they do wrote for a book.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Every engine has a break in period. You need to change the oil by 500 or max 1000 miles. I don`t care if it came from Mars.
No you do not! Read the freaking manufacturer's data, FFS. Yes I'm fully aware of magnetic sump plugs. Like I said, I don't change my own oil. I'll take the car to the dealer every ~18,000 miles, and they'll change the oil then. It is absolutely NOT NECESSARY to change the oil at 500 or 1000 miles. Get out of the 1960s, Jack. I'm talking modern engines here. Why would I believe a 500 mile oil change was necessary when the vehicle maker themselves says 18000 miles is OK? The maker and dealer are there to sell you their cars. If you wear one out fast, then more power to you. It suits them just fine.
Well skuzzy might agree with you, but AFAIC that's BS. They would much rather the customer took his car back every 3000 miles - just as it was in the old days. They'd have 6 times as many customer visits and would therefore be making more money. I follow the service schedule and don't have any problems. I don't know what you're talking about by wearing a car out fast by not changing the oil every 500/1000 miles. I had a Toyota which I ran for 6½ years and 84,000 miles. No "break-in" oil, and services at 9000 miles. It was just fine - as have been all my subsequent cars, despite a vastly increased service interval. The last car I had needed only 2 services/oil changes in the 48000 miles I had it. It was fine.
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Originally posted by beet1e
No you do not! Read the freaking manufacturer's data, FFS. Yes I'm fully aware of magnetic sump plugs. Like I said, I don't change my own oil. I'll take the car to the dealer every ~18,000 miles, and they'll change the oil then. It is absolutely NOT NECESSARY to change the oil at 500 or 1000 miles. Get out of the 1960s, Jack. I'm talking modern engines here.
How many engines have you built and torn down/rebuilt Beet?
If any, you know better. Refer back to common sense.
Modern, smodern............it`s still and engine and it still wears especialy during break in. The manufaturer is there to sell you cars. Wear em out, they`ll sell you another. Common sense again.
Why would I believe a 500 mile oil change was necessary when the vehicle maker themselves says 18000 miles is OK?
If you had ever built/rebuilt them, you would know and could have seen with your own eyes.
At break in you get fine metal shavings on any engine, no matter who makes it or where it comes from.
You don`t change the oil during break in, you are wearing your own engine.
They would much rather the customer took his car back every 3000 miles - just as it was in the old days. They'd have 6 times as many customer visits and would therefore be making more money.
Buzzzzzzzz!! Wrong. Profit margin for service work such as oil changes is very low compaired to major repair, etc. They would much rather you put some major damage to it, then bring it back so they can stiff you...............and the manufaturer if it`s still under warranty. Oldest game in the books for dealers.
I don't know what you're talking about by wearing a car out fast by not changing the oil every 500/1000 miles.
You don`t change the oil every 500/1000 miles. read what was posted. Even with a few beers you should be able to muddle through it.
You change oil on a new engine at around 500 to 1000 miles during break in. It gets the metal shavings out from the seating in process of all engine components. They will be there no matter what engine it is.
I had a Toyota which I ran for 6� years and 84,000 miles. No "break-in" oil, and services at 9000 miles. It was just fine
No, it wasn`t. :)
The last car I had needed only 2 services/oil changes in the 48000 miles I had it. It was fine.
No, it wasn`t. :)
48000and 84000 huh? Is that about what you think is the life of an engine?
One new car I purchased I was putting 1500 to 2000 miles a week on it.
At your "everythings fine" level it would have had to have been pretty disposable. I put somewhere in the neighborhood of 350000 on it, loaned it to a friend who drove it for a few months, then gave it to one of my daughters and her family. They drove it for two years before selling it. :)
I changed the oil at around 3000 on it. Common sense again. :)
You are more than welcome to follow what the dealer and builder tells you in their little book. No skin off my nose.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
How many engines have you built and torn down/rebuilt Beet?
How many have YOU built? I bet you haven't done as many as Audi or Volvo, whose service schedules I have quoted in this thread. Modern, smodern............it`s still and engine and it still wears especialy during break in. The manufaturer is there to sell you cars. Wear em out, they`ll sell you another. Common sense again.
I think you're all off here, Jack. You see, cars used to need a "break-in" oil which would be changed at 1000 miles. Cars used to need servicing every 3000 miles after that. Cars used to need very careful handling in that first 1000-2000 miles... But things have changed, Jack. It's called Progress - or do you think that technological developments simply stopped in 1965? Progress is responsible for improved engineering techniques, and improved oils. Progress is also the reason that some of us have dumped the modem and now connect to the internet with a 1MB ADSL broadband connection, whereas others.... er, do not. ;)
I think your remarks about manufacturers wanting to wear the car out prematurely are bollocks. If what you say is true, and that by changing the oil every 5000 miles and using a break in oil which got changed after 1000 miles was the key to long engine life, please explain to me why car companies offered a 1 year/12000 mile warranty on cars requiring this treatment, whereas nowadays cars like mine with an 18000 mile service interval come with a 3-year 60,000 mile warranty? According to you, cars with an 18000 mile service interval should wear out faster, so why is the warranty 3 times as long and/or 5 times the mileage as it was for cars that needed the old short interval oil changes? Cars today last much longer and are capable of much higher mileages than cars of 30-40 years ago, so how do you explain this anomaly? Could it be that you are... wrong? Or perhaps just a little out of date. :p
My cars have all been fine, so I don't know what you mean when you say "No it wasn't". I sold them on at market value. No-one ever said to me "sorry, gonna have to pull out of the deal because you didn't change the oil every 5000 miles". I sold 'em all on at market value, and that's all I care about.
I'm going to be up north next weekend. It will be a 600 mile round trip. Maybe I should organise an oil change for while I'm up there! :rofl
But on second thoughts, maybe not. Given the choice of acting upon manufacturer's recommendations versus the word of...er, someone else, I'll stick with the former. :aok
Skuzzy - I've found a road test of your car! - http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=201&model=757&description=Lexus%20IS
I was looking for Lexus service interval recommendations and found that it was 5000 miles!!! Then I realised that I was looking at the US .com website! As you will see in this (UK) test, the service interval is 10,000 miles. The reviewers were not terribly impressed by that, and remarked thus: "Short 10,000 mile service intervals will make for plenty of trips to the dealer for average owners."
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Originally posted by beet1e
How many have YOU built?
More than I care to count or would be able to remember at this stage.
I`ll take your non-answer as "none". That`s what i thought. :) Might get your hands dirty as you stated before. :)
I think you're all off here, Jack. You see, cars used to need a "break-in" oil which would be changed at 1000 miles
Yea, they used to need a break in period.....and still do. If it`s an engine...it needs a break in period. Refer back to common sense once again. If you choose not to....hey.....you certainly wouldn`t be the first not to know to.
But on second thoughts, maybe not. Given the choice of acting upon manufacturer's recommendations versus the word of...er, someone else, I'll stick with the former.
Wonderful.
Jessica Simpson is interested in selling you some skin care products.
Also some company is interesting in selling you a sea vessel. lt was stated that it had a small hull leak, but could probably be fixed with JB Weld. I beleive they said the name was Valdeez or something like that. At any rate, it comes with an owners manual, so if the instructions are followed everything should be just fine. :rofl :aok
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What do you guys actually mean with "break in oil"? If you mean the first oil change after 1000km or so, then it's something that a few manufacturers still recommend.
The oil in the new engines after factory is NOT "break in oil" but the same stuff that the manufacturers are recommending you to use. They used to have special "break in oil" decades ago, and you HAD to change it soon or the engine would be ruined.
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Been reading a lot, and found some intersting reasons why cars sold in the U.S. require shorter oil change intervals. And Beet, I could care less what some magazine has to say about a car. I am more thanqualified to write and article about a car, and I could say your Audi is junk in it for various reasons, if I wanted to.
And Beet, I have already stated, in a couple of threads, my car's oil change interval is 5,000 miles. I actually change it every 3,000 miles. This is for several reasons. It goes to how I drive, and the weather conditions I drive in.
Most owner's manuals have a caveate in them. The recommended oil change interval is a general recommendation. If you drive in adverse weather (read extreme temperature ranges), dusty conditions, or do a high percentage of stop and go driving, you should consider changing the oil more often.
Now on to the show.
The U.S. courts have been rather harsh to automobile manufacturers over emission controls. Case in point; Honda was sued by the EPA for violoating the emissions standards in the 96 and 97 year models of all thier cars. Honda fought and lost the case. The result: Honda has to update every 96 and 97 year model free of charge, for a period of 14 years or mileage not to exceed 150,000 miles. The violations were not sufficient enough to warrant a recall and only applies if the car is brought into a dealership for repair to any part of the emission control system.
There are several cases like this, against various automobile manufacturers, on the books. So, the manufacturer, in order to insure the emission control systems on cars sold in this country will pass muster for 7 years, or 100,000 miles, requires more frequent oil changes.
The manufacturers determined the more frequent oil changes will keep the car within U.S. federally mandated emissions levels for that period of time.
The EPA has acknowledged if the manufacturer does require more frequent oil changes and the emission control system fails, they cannot be held responsible for the failure.
So, therein lies the reason for the more frequent oil changes required in the U.S. Bottomline, the manufacturers agree longer oil change intervals will result in faster deteriation of the emission control systems in cars. It does not go to engine wear, per se, just emissions.
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Skuzzy, that might have something to do with shorter service intervals, but it has nothing to do with oil change intervals. Why? Engines just don't wear prematurely if they are properly serviced according to manufacturers specifications even here in Europe.
If the car is serviced properly at the specified intervals, all the emission related components will not fail due to lack of service. If a component related to the emission control systems fails between services, the MIL light will advice the driver. I'd guess that it's the users resposibility from there on, if he keeps driving the vehicle? To what extent is the manufacturer liable? If an ignition coil fails is the manufacturer liable if the car is less than 7 years old? How about this scenario: I own a car and a spark plug fails. I keep driving for 300 miles and change the plug myself. The catalytic converter takes some damage, but the car still passes emissions. 5 years later the cat fails completely. Is the manufacturer liable for the repair?
Of the 1000 or so vehicles I've inspected I've failed less than 5% due to exhaust emissions. I can only remember one example where the reason was premature engine wear, and that car hadn't been serviced properly. In at least 99.x% of the cases the fault has been unrelated to the motor oil. The most common cause is a fault in the ignition system. The problem is either acute, or the has previously been an ignition fault, and the catalytic converter has sustained damage.
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Mora, are the emission requirements there the same as they are here, worse, better? I figure there are differences in the emission standards around the world. I could be wrong. Gasoline mixes are also different. The EPA requires certain additives to be put into gasoline sold in the U.S. And in certain areas of the country where smog is acute, there are other additives required to be placed in the fuel sold there. Yes, even within the U.S., there are different mixes of fuel sold.
The more frequent oil change intervals help the automobile maintain emission control standards for a longer period of time in the U.S. It could go to the type of driving or even the fuel mix here. It may not. All I know is the manufacturers who came under fire came up with the proposal, proved it effective, and got the EPA off thier back.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Mora, are the emission requirements there the same as they are here, worse, better? I figure there are differences in the emission standards around the world. I could be wrong. Gasoline mixes are also different.
I can't tell because I don't know the US reguirements.
Here's how the emission test goes here.
The engine is inspected to make sure that all the emission related components mentioned in the registration are in place. The emissions are then measured when the engine is running freely at idle and at over 2000 rpm.
The limits are:
Idle: CO 0.5% HC 100 ppm O2 <5%
>2000 rpm: CO 0.3% HC 100 ppm Lambda 1.00 +-0.03 O2 <5%
Gasoline engined cars from 2001 forwards also reguire an EOBD(OBD-II) test.
The only thing I know about the US tests that they might involve a dynamoter test? That would make them way more advanced. Is anyone familiar with how the tests are performed there?
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so beet is poluting the air with his long service intervals and dirty oil?
shame beet!
just talked to an engine builder buddy and guy I use for machine work and he said that motors with short oil change intervals look a lot better when torn down than those that he considers neglected... He also said that he never seen a motor that was on synthetic that looked like it had much wear... You can still destroy em (that's why he sees em) but it is hard to wear em out.
lazs
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:rofl
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mora... I just had a dyno smog test on the Lincoln but I threw away the paperwork after it passed... the results are transmitted electronicaly to the state DMV so there is no need to save em. Your O2 levels sound high tho.
lazs
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mora, I am trying to find something comparable to how you present your emission samples. The EPA states it all in grams/mile, and not percentages.
I also noted the measurements are based on two tables. The first table shows the acceptable levels for the first 5 years or 50,000 miles for a vehicle, while the second table is 10 years or 100,000 miles. A slight increase in emissions is allowed after 5 years or 50,000 miles, but must still meet the emission requirements up to 10 years or 100,000 miles.
Footnotes in various EPA documents allow an automobile manufacturer to have some emission failures during the 10 year/100,000 mile period of time, but if they are considered excessive, the EPA has the right to force he manufacturer to warranty all cars/makes of that year model for some period of time.
This appears to be what happened to Honda. The vehicles of the year models in question had excessive failures in testing and the EPA made Honda (via court action) pay for any work needed to keep the said vehicles within emission standards.
I did find a section showing the differences between U.S. and Euorpean emission standards. It seemed pretty general, but showed the U.S. to have the tougher emission standards, as compared to Europe.
I have no idea how to validate the information as I do not know who sets the emission standards for Europe.
EDIT: Mora, dynometer testing is currently only required in California for emissions testing. It is optional for all other states, but expected to be required within the next two years for all states.
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Originally posted by lazs2
mora... I just had a dyno smog test on the Lincoln but I threw away the paperwork after it passed... the results are transmitted electronicaly to the state DMV so there is no need to save em. Your O2 levels sound high tho.
lazs
The O2 level should be close to nil, but it's obviously not a polluting component. If it's over 5% there's a significant leak in the exhaust, which causes a failure.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
mora, I am trying to find something comparable to how you present your emission samples. The EPA states it all in grams/mile, and not percentages.
Those are the values of an emission test cycle. The percentages are measured in the SMOG test, as an emission test cycle costs thousands. The emission test cycle limits between Europe and USA are usually comparable from eraly 90's forward. On older vehicles the US standards are way more strict. When the limits are tightened it usually happens in CA first, followed by the EU and the rest of the US. Diesel emission standards are AFAIK more strict in Europe and we have emission tests for them too.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
EDIT: Mora, dynometer testing is currently only required in California for emissions testing. It is optional for all other states, but expected to be required within the next two years for all states.
I don't expect it to happen in Europe for at least in 10 years. That would be a huge investment and would likely double the yearly inspection cost. More likely the future OBD systems will eliminate the need for a physical emission testing.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Yea, they used to need a break in period.....and still do. If it`s an engine...it needs a break in period. Refer back to common sense once again. If you choose not to....hey.....you certainly wouldn`t be the first not to know to.
I never said that modern cars didn't need a break-in period, but I said it was not as stringent as in decades gone by. And Beet, I could care less what some magazine has to say about a car. I am more thanqualified to write and article about a car, and I could say your Audi is junk in it for various reasons, if I wanted to. - skuzzy
Oooooooer!! Lighten up! I only posted that link because I thought you'd find it interesting, and for no other reason. I only read the Service section, and scanned the rest. By the way you reacted, I'm guessing it wasn't a flattering write-up. I'll have another read of it. I wasn't trolling you. just talked to an engine builder buddy and guy I use for machine work and he said that motors with short oil change intervals look a lot better when torn down than those that he considers neglected... - lazs
Lazs, I don't disagree with you or jackal that those old legacy engines that you guys have in your cars benefit from a short interval between oil changes. The point is that the modern engines benefit from all the things Mora has already pointed out: Cleaner running because of more efficient computerised engine management and fuel injection, "lean burn" engines, improved engineering which allows engines to be built to finer tolerances, improved oil technology and modern synthetic oils. For these reasons, the service interval is much longer these days. Do those old V8 klunkers enjoy any of these benefits?
While I'm STILL waiting to hear from Jackall as to why new car warranties have become longer, not shorter, with the advent of long service intervals and no need for a "break-in" oil, I did some research on Hyundai, the Korean car maker. Hyundai models have a service interval of 10,000 miles, and there is NO "break in" oil needed and NO initial oil change at ~1000 miles. Despite this, Hyundai models in the UK are sold with a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty. That is to say that if I drove 20,000 miles a year, after 4½ years the car would still be under warranty at 90,000 miles, despite never having used a "break-in" oil. Hyundai warranty link: http://www.hyundai.co.uk/fiveYearWarranty/intro/
"Break-in" oil - LOL - that really is a thing of the past! :rofl
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Originally posted by mora
What do you guys actually mean with "break in oil"? If you mean the first oil change after 1000km or so, then it's something that a few manufacturers still recommend.
The oil in the new engines after factory is NOT "break in oil" but the same stuff that the manufacturers are recommending you to use. They used to have special "break in oil" decades ago, and you HAD to change it soon or the engine would be ruined.
Just read break in oil as the oil you use during break in period. Evey engine has a break in period....no matter what it is.
I , personaly, never used same viscosity for break in period than permanent.
Owners manuals or sort of like Windows For Dummies, only for cars. If you trust a dealer even to know about his product, mechanicaly, in most cases, you are barking up an empty tree. Most are assuredly experts on taking your money for payment, but few actualy know anything about their own product. Dealers are salesman. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I never said that modern cars didn't need a break-in period, but I said it was not as stringent as in decades gone by.
Classic. :rolleyes:
While I'm STILL waiting to hear from Jackall as to why new car warranties have become longer, not shorter, with the advent of long service intervals and no need for a "break-in" oil
They still do have a need for break in oil. A big need, so you won`t be hearing that from me.
As far the longer warranties.... I don`t think you are that dense and I know I`m not so just call the game due to rain of the brain. :rofl
I did some research on Hyundai
Translation: "Google just had another brownout and I found some more generalized canned info that I take to be the gospel." :aok
Hyundai for God`s sake. Sheeeesh. :rofl
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In Europe, it's not the "dealership" that publishes the vehicle handbook, it's the manufacturer. Thus there's just the one version that is provided in all cars, regardless of which "dealership" sold the car. Yes, I'm sure the manufacturer knows more about the cars he makes than some guy rocking back and forth on his stoop, 5000 miles away across the pond.
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The manufaturer gives the benefit of a doubt that the buyer has at least a glimmer of common sense. ..........................Pro bably a mistake. :)
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Translation: "Google just had another brownout and I found some more generalized canned info that I take to be the gospel."
Straight from the Hyundai website, Jackall. I repeat, Hyundai in the UK offers a five year, unlimited mileage warranty on their new cars, which DO NOT use a "break in" oil and which DO NOT require an initial oil change at ~1000 miles. Are you saying that this information is false? I know you never follow the links, for two reasons: - your dial-up doesn't have the bandwidth
- you're not interested in the FACTS.
For those who ARE interested in the facts, the Hyundai warranty says this: Hyundai's cars are covered by a five year, unlimited mileage warranty* protecting you in the unlikely event of problems arising from defective materials or manufacturing defect. This is in addition to your statutory rights as a consumer and forms an integral part of the car purchase.
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I think it's pretty pointless to argue this issue. Both sides are not going to change their position on this one.
Not once have I heard from any credible person or literature that our oil change intervals are too long, or that there is any reasonable benefit from changing your oil at 3k or so miles(if proper oil is used). Infact the teacher of a lubrication technology course(D.Sc from VTT (http://www.vtt.fi/index.jsp?lang=en)) confirmed this when we asked him(I actually believed otherwise back then). A "technicians" testimony will not change my view on this.
Conserning "break in". A properly done break in(like the racing engine builders do) is a complex procedure, and it's something the average car owner can not do(And the manufacturers have kept this in mind during the engine design). I suggest on taking it easy for the first 1000 miles, there's really nothing else you can do. Many manufacturers don't have any recommendations conserning break in at all.
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by beet1e
Straight from the Hyundai website, Jackall. I repeat, Hyundai in the UK offers a five year, unlimited mileage warranty on their new cars, which DO NOT use a "break in" oil and which DO NOT require an initial oil change at ~1000 miles. Are you saying that this information is false? I know you never follow the links, for two reasons: - your dial-up doesn't have the bandwidth
- you're not interested in the FACTS.
For those who ARE interested in the facts, the Hyundai warranty says this: [/B]
And Google just browned out again. :)
Beetle I don`t need bandwidth to ignore Hyundai. It`s also pretty easy to ignore the tin cans in the trash. :)
Just a word about "owner manuals". Contrary to what seems to be beleived here, the manual didn`t come from some superior being seated on a a throne of golden Engineness. :) It is a compiled list of merely bits and pieces produced by many people that haven`t got a friggin clue. It is meant as a very, very minimum piece of info for those with very, very little savvy.
I`d be willing to bet that not one of these folks could actualy build an engine, have built one or would even have the faintest clue where to start. It is bits and peices, gleaned from larger sources, by many, who know nothing more than how to produce a booklet.
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I have not argued whether oil changes are too long, or too short. I was really curious about why the same make of car would have two different recommendations about oil change.
I think I have that one figured out and it was a rather fascinating learning process.
Mora, my vehicle test report for my old Infiniti shows ppm/litre for HC and NOx, and a percentage/litre for CO. CO and CO2 are combined in the CO reading. I assume the same is true for your tests as well.
I am still trying to find some technical papers which gives details as to why more frequent oil changes would help keep the emissions of a vehicle reduced. The studies are done, but finding stuff like this is like pulling teeth.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #5
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Ok, this one is done. This is the second time I have had to close a thread or do heavy editing because of you two. Either ignore each other or stop responding to each other. I will not tolerate another one of these exchanges.