Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Speed55 on May 05, 2006, 05:26:20 PM
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I was just wondering why the la7 has 3 cannons.
I heard from a few people while playing that it was pretty rare. went and looked it up and it seems that it was extremely rare.
Now this is going by a quick google search.
3,000 - 5000 produced
400? with 3 cannons the rest with 2.
The la7 is a monster. Has incredible speed, great turn rate, and great ertical climb rate. Why give it an armament package that was extremely rair if you go by the numbers?
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..another reason to perk the LA-7!:aok
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Here we go again.
:rolleyes:
Bronk
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as well rounded of an aircraft that it is, i dont think it should be perked, but do think it should be more historically accurate.
I'm sure there are alot of aircraft in the planeset that were produced with some special weapons loadout, in as many or more numbers as the lala with the 3shvak cannons.
I don't fly the la7 very often, but don't want the guys that use it as there main ride to have to pay perk points for it either.
And honsetly i think the la5 with the 2shvak's does fine in the killing department.
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How many F4U-1C were made? 200?
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If the La7 was all that you would see every other person sucessfully landing kills in a la7. Thats not the case now is it?
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there was like 500 f4uc's made, but it was mainly on air to ground duty. There was also a nite fighter verison of corsair, i think it was f4u2 or f4u2n.
La7 is on the same level of the spit16. I would like to see it more accurate aswell. The spit 16 i believe had a weapons set with 4 hispanos like the f4uc but im not sure how many where runing around with them. Perkin them both wont hurt nothin. People will just move to a different variant spit# etc or la5.
When spit 16 came out i flew it for alittle, i kept brokein it with hard turns, was it really that weak?(no im not tryin to hijack)
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I say perk the dweeb16,La-7,and niki.
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i agree perk both la7 and spit 16, but a noe theres a few more planes runin around that might be considered. The nik could be perked but a hardcore nik pilot might be lost without a plane but it packs 4 cannons and if that aint perked the f4u1c shouldnt be perked. Anything with 4 cannons should make the list. They make all the 6 .50 cal planes look weak by comparison. If not let me hav the f4u1c, then i wont care if other planes hav 4 cannons. I figured the perk list would be dictated by the number of planes produced but thats not true in Aces high. If it was true then the f4u4 wouldnt be a perked plane since there here only maybe 200 more f4u1ds then f4u4s. The perk list is dictated by the use of a certain plane, lets say a certain plane, lets say its the p40e for example is being flown by 35% of the main arena at one time(thats alot of p40s) aces high will look at the plane and then consider whether or not to perk it. This is the reason i heard they perked f4u1c, i dont noe if this is a fact or not but this is what i heard.
Alot of people want to perk la7 and spit16, i wonder if htc will do it or not. Like i said before its not like there being put in the cold because they still have other variants that deliver more then enuff performance to get the job down. Its not like its will be a huge performance down grade like if u would go from spit 16 to spit 1.
Nite fightin would bring a good handful of planes to life. Slayer start a new thread on that.(this is not a high jack)
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i've read this thread before...oh no, summer reruns!
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I don't think there would be any reason to perk a 2shvak la7, since it was a normal varient of the aircraft.
If they perk the la7 with the 3 gun package fine.... i guess.
I was just looking for the normal version of the la7 to be implemented.
bk.. try changing your convergance on the .50's.
As far as the spit16 and n1k, i don't think either should be perked either, since both have there weaknesses.. but that can be brought up in another post.
do you fly in the MA at all?
(this is not a hijack) :rofl
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I said WEAK BY COMPARISON. When i fly a corsair with 4 hispanos and switch to 6 50s u FEEL a difference:lol
I fly a different name. Guys searched for my name in there but u wont find it. I dont want the message board to splash over into my flight time.
Perking the spit16 and la7 posts arent summer reruns, its last seasons episodes. I seen this thread come up alot of times.
(THIS IS NOT A HIGHJACK) i wrote that because i seen a thread go from having problems sleepin to a mini dating service. I figured i try to keep it on track. Ur second post on this thread mentioned perking la7 and from there we get spit 16 and the rest of the bunch. After that nobody mentioned the gun packages. I mentioned somethin about the gun packages but went straight back to perkin things.
I agree, i would like to see the weapon package on the la7 that is must accurate. But the diferent gun package might change the performance of the plane for better or worst. What was the other gun package, 2 cannons and machine gun or just 2 cannons?
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Originally posted by bkbandit
La7 is on the same level of the spit16. I would like to see it more accurate aswell. The spit 16 i believe had a weapons set with 4 hispanos like the f4uc but im not sure how many where runing around with them. Perkin them both wont hurt nothin. People will just move to a different variant spit# etc or la5.
XVI never had 4x20mms.
Some IX's did but were EXTREMELY uncommon, problems with heating.
Spit V's had the 4x20mm package, mostly in the Med / N.Africa region.
The original 'c' wing designation was 4x20mm.
La7 and the XVI on the same level? - a late 1944 plane v a mid 1943 plane (performance wise), I'll have a gallon of what your drinking lol.
Thats like saying a Spit II is on the same level as the early 190's.
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Unperk everything.
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i seen on a different web page that 16 had a 4 cannon option.
Nobody said anything about when wat was created. BUt the la7 and spit16 attract tons of newbies,this wouldnt put them in different leagues.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Unperk everything.
Agreed, let folks fly what they want. The rest of you, butch it up
Princesses :D
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Anyone who thinks that 2 or 3 guns on the La7 will make any difference is fooling himself. We have both options btw so this is not a matter of historical accuracy.
If not let me hav the f4u1c, then i wont care if other planes hav 4 cannons.
You can have the -1C for a negligible perk cost. It is so low that anyone can afford it. What else are you using your perks for?
Bozon
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Originally posted by bkbandit
i seen on a different web page that 16 had a 4 cannon option.
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Joo must believe every thing on the intardnet.
Bronk
:noid :noid :noid
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Y should i pay for f4u1c when nik is free.
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It is a great idea to offer perk load outs. I think the 3 gun La7 is a great example of one.
And yes it makes a huge difference in the effectiveness of the airplane. I would say it has roughly 50% more fire power.
How many people would fly the 4 hispano Typhoon if there was a 6 hispano one not perked?
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Originally posted by Pongo
It is a great idea to offer perk load outs. I think the 3 gun La7 is a great example of one.
And yes it makes a huge difference in the effectiveness of the airplane. I would say it has roughly 50% more fire power.
How many people would fly the 4 hispano Typhoon if there was a 6 hispano one not perked?
How many would fly a 4 x hispano Spit V instead of the XVI?
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P.S. the 3 guns option on the LA makes a BIG difference.
Aside from performance, the 2-gun option is the same as the LA5FN. Try flying that plane for a while, then go back to the LA7. The 3-gun option shoots rounds faster (muzzle velocity) straighter, and each round is stronger than the 2-gun option.
It's like comparing MG/FF to Hispanos, folks! It makes a difference, TRUST me!!
EDIT: I don't think bkbandit really knows what he's talking about on this one, sorry, but you've said a lot of things that aren't true in this post. Might want to brush up a li'l.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
How many would fly a 4 x hispano Spit V instead of the XVI?
I think that quite a few people would. The La-7 is still the favorite for the "I dont want to die" crowd... the Spit 16 gets the nod from people who dont so much care about dying as they do about flying the easiest possible plane to get kills in.
A Spit V with 4 Hizookas would still have most of what makes the Spit 16 good (turning, faster than the Hurri 2c), and double the firepower. So I think most people would go for it.
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a late 1944 plane v a mid 1943 plane (performance wise),
Kev, quit hiding behind the year thing...its crap. i could care less what they perk or dont perk, but playing this card for the spit16 is a joke. spit16 does to many things well to be considered less than uber because of the year it was made. i myself dont have an issue killing them because most people try to do horizontal loops in it...wrong way to fly that thing, in most cases.
oh, and save the..."imagine the whines if it was boosted to blah blah blah or if we had the spitXXIIXXIXIXXIXIX blah"
it has great roll, average to above average firepower, good climb, decent accel, top end speed not the best, but better than average. and considering most are diving from above(due to great climb), the speed thing can be decieving to most, hence all the great speed claims.
sorry, but the year a plane was made does not decide if its uber or not.
heck, as far as Im concerned, the 38G is better than the J or L...but thats my opinion. Guess Im wrong though because the G was made before the J or L.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Y should i pay for f4u1c when nik is free.
Speed, durability, Hispanos and CV capable. That is why.
N1K2-J has better handling at low speeds though.
The Type 99 Model IIs the N1K2-J has are significantly less effective than the Hispano M2s the F4U-1C has.
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Originally posted by Krusty
The 3-gun option shoots rounds faster (muzzle velocity) straighter, and each round is stronger than the 2-gun option.
If it does in AH then it should not..............
The Bereznin was lighter than the Shvak............after that there was no difference (other than the Bereznin was less reliable and prone to jam).
They both fire the same round, they both have the same rate of fire, they both have the same muzzle length and velocity.
The 3 gun option is 1.5 times more lethal/sec than the 2 gun option.............. so simple it is.
But green tracers would be neat:rolleyes:
Hopefully when its re rendered to AH's latest graphics capability then HT will ensure the cannon bulges are properly defined and we get two models..(S & B)... then IMO it may be reasonable to perk the 3 cannon (B)version.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Y should i pay for f4u1c when nik is free.
Try the offline .target 500 command. Set convergance for 500 on a nik, and fire a hundred rounds at the target. Bring it close with .target 50, and do a screenshot.
DO the same thing with a hurri or a tiffy.
You'll see a big difference in scatter. Even that doesnt take into account the higher hitting power of the hispano round....
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They eliminated the taters for the G-6 in AH I think they should eliminate the 3 cannon La7 or just perk the 3 cannon La a small perk albeit but a perk nontheless,besides the Lala doesn't need 3 cannons 1 or 2 pings and your tail falls off,particularly while flying a 190.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
....snip....
I agree, i would like to see the weapon package on the la7 that is must accurate. But the diferent gun package might change the performance of the plane for better or worst. What was the other gun package, 2 cannons and machine gun or just 2 cannons?
In our Main Arena, we have Lachovkins as wingmen to Spitfires and FW's, attacking P-40s and Niks.
"Accurate" isnt the right word for Aces High gameplay.
Now, the FLIGHT MODEL strives to be as accurate as fun and processors allow. However, the arena is designed for fun. That means variety, balance, and loosely structured "gamey" activities like base capture are the rule of the day.
The production runs are essentially irrevelant, since the guiding rule for inclusion (as I understand it) is just that the airframe needs to have reached squadron deployment during WW2. Subtypes are included based on variety, difficulty coding, and balance in the MA. The C-Hog makes perfect sense in the MA even though only 200 reached deployment.
By the way, the 2gun La-7 IS ALREADY IN THE GAME. Select your weapons loadout in the hangar, and you can pick the 2cannon bird no problem. If you want to see how differently it performs, do some old fashioned test flying -- time to altitude, how many 360 rolls in 10 seconds, how long to turn 360 circles at stall, etc....and you'll find that HTC includes weight's impact on performance already. Even in flight, you get loighter and more maneuverable as you use fuel and ammo.
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Originally posted by Tilt
The 3 gun option is 1.5 times more lethal/sec than the 2 gun option.............. so simple it is.
In AH it's 4x as lethal. That's a fact. Any single ping from anywhere does noticable damage. In the same session (thus negating lag and connection issues) I went back and forth between la7s with 2 guns and with 3 guns. 3 guns = instant kill/disable every ping. 2 guns = massive hits little to no damage. I landed 20+ 2-gun hits from nose to tail on a p51D. I don't care WHAT you say about "landing hits all in the same place," but that plane didn't lose one single part or even any engine fluids. I went back to the 3-gun and I landed snapshots that gave me kills left and right. I went back and forth between the two, and every time the LA7 with 2 guns landed lots of hits with little damage, and the 3-gun LA7 raked in the kills over and over.
There's a difference in AH as to how they work. I don't know if they're supposed to be that way or not. That's just how AH has it.
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None of what you guys are discussing matters. There is only one factor that will make HTC perk a plane - over use in the MA. That's why the C-Hog got perked.
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I'd like to see true usage numbers on the spit16 and the la7. I would be the two of them combined gets up near 50% of total planes flown for a tour.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Anything with 4 cannons should make the list.
Perk teh mossah! l33t!
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Originally posted by Stang
I'd like to see true usage numbers on the spit16 and the la7. I would be the two of them combined gets up near 50% of total planes flown for a tour.
Did a quick check of the stats -- doesn't quite work out.
I know that kills and deaths are not the same as "sorties", but they should correlate fairly closely. After removing kills and deaths for vehicles, chutes and guns (leaving just "airplanes"), the LA7 + SpitXVI account for 15.3% of the kills and 12.8% of the deaths of aircraft. The Niki is not far behind those two. My cursory glance says the P-51D is a distant 4th. Even removing all the bombers (including IL2 and A-20) moves the numbers up to just 16.7% of kills and 16.3% of deaths of fighters. These are from the April tour.
All you need to do is go to the scores page, do a model vs model compare, chosing "all models" as the type of aircraft in both. I used the first set of data that gives kill/death ratios, copied and pasted into Excel. I am sure there is a better way to analyze the data, but this was the quickest way.
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That seems very low.
I'd think that the top two would account for roughly 20% of the total kills.. it has been that way historically.
I'll check it out later, see if my analysis agrees with yours.
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We have about 200% the number of airplanes in this game now, as compared to the time the Chog was first introduced.
We have at LEAST 5x the number of players (don't forget, 500-slot servers are a recent addition, it used to be much lower, this was done to accomodate the enormous amount of players now), as compared to the time the Chog was first introduced.
Back then 20% *was* possible, simply because the % wasn't dilluted with twice as many aircraft options, and there were much less people flying (less variation in what was flow). The fact that the spit16 outpaced the all-time-killer (the LA7) for many months is a testament that it is worse than the Chog, when the Chog first came out. Do I think it should be perked? I don't know. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. The LA? Perked? No. 3-gun option removed? Yes!
15% in "current numbers" is probably worth 35-40% in "old numbers" lol I know that math doesn't add up, but the impact is the same.
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Originally posted by Urchin
That seems very low.
I'd think that the top two would account for roughly 20% of the total kills.. it has been that way historically.
I'll check it out later, see if my analysis agrees with yours.
Please do -- Always good to have a second set of eyes just to be sure I didn't have mine crossed at the time . . . :aok
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Perk the La-7? OK, I have enough points to say I dont care any more! If i do need points its back to the La-5. The two gun model is harder to get kills in, but that just means you have to be sure of your shot before you pull the trigger. The La-5 and 7 dont have alot of ammo to waste and the ballistics arent that great, but they are great rides to run in! They are also great for feild defense. What planes will be perked after these?:D
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I'm with the camp that says remove the 3x20mm and go with only the 2x20mm....there is a big difference....and the vast majority of La-7's had only 2 cannons.......
I would even say that the 3x20mm version was produced in such low numbers as to almost consider it a "field mod"
also, anyone got a reference for the performance of the La-7 that includes acceleration data? that's really what I think casues problems in teh MA, the la7 is not hard to defeat but it's accelleration makes it almost like a UFO
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It would not be any great effort for HTC to split the La7 into two models at the next update.
The appropriate skin (Airmess's yellow 93 {drab olive}) already exists and can be the 3 cannon default.
Leave the icons as they are. (if its got a drab olive skin its a 3 cannon)
Plenty of options how to list them in the hanger clipboard window.
La7(44) & La7(45)
La7(2c) & La7(3c)
La7(Shvak) & La7(Beresnin)
La7(S) & La7(B)
La7(Std) & La7(Tbilisi)
La7 & La7(Tbilisi)
The problem with all the above is that Lavochkins never had such numeration.
The use of the year of manufacture may suffice however both 2 and 3 cannon variants were manufactured in 45.
The reference to Tbilisi is with respect that the main plants (Gorky and Moscow) making La7's in early 45 produced 2 cannon variants. However the much smaller plant of Tiblisi started to produce the 3 cannon variant earlier.
Tiblisi production models account for nearly all the 3 cannon variants to see action in the GPW.
I need to check my spelling of Tiblisi. (edited to read Tbilisi)
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Split? Why split? Just remove one weapons option. They've done it on other aircraft on more than one occasion.
No need for 2 identical planes, exactly 100% identical except for guns loadout, where one plane has a super rare almost unheard of guns option that is much more lethal than the default.
Might as well just remove the super rare guns option.
If the La7 were just an up-engined LA5 (as it should be) it wouldn't be nearly as much a threat as it is in AH, but that's personal conjecture on my part. I haven't died from LA7s in a while, it's 90% spit16s these days.
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Originally posted by E25280
Did a quick check of the stats -- doesn't quite work out.
I know that kills and deaths are not the same as "sorties", but they should correlate fairly closely. After removing kills and deaths for vehicles, chutes and guns (leaving just "airplanes"), the LA7 + SpitXVI account for 15.3% of the kills and 12.8% of the deaths of aircraft. The Niki is not far behind those two. My cursory glance says the P-51D is a distant 4th. Even removing all the bombers (including IL2 and A-20) moves the numbers up to just 16.7% of kills and 16.3% of deaths of fighters. These are from the April tour.
All you need to do is go to the scores page, do a model vs model compare, chosing "all models" as the type of aircraft in both. I used the first set of data that gives kill/death ratios, copied and pasted into Excel. I am sure there is a better way to analyze the data, but this was the quickest way.
I got numbers pretty close to this.. I got 16.98 % for the La7 and Spit 16 combined (kills), I took the kills of GVs out and most of the bombers. Think I left the IL-2 in, since I see that being used as a fighter quite a bit.
That actually seems very low to me... I seem to recall the numbers being around 40% for the top 5 a couple years ago. Maybe the arena is getting more diverse, but so slowly that nobody can tell :).
Haha, maybe not so much after all... got 36.16% for the top 5 killings fighters. Using my numbers they were the Spit 16, La7, Niki, P-51D, and Tiffie.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Split? Why split? Just remove one weapons option. They've done it on other aircraft on more than one occasion.
I believe in thise instances they were correcting an error........the 3 x B2 20mm la7 existed and is a viable AH ac
No need for 2 identical planes, exactly 100% identical except for guns loadout, where one plane has a super rare almost unheard of guns option that is much more lethal than the default.
Might as well just remove the super rare guns option.
it was not super rare.......... more saw action than several othe varients featuring in AH
If the La7 were just an up-engined LA5 (as it should be) it wouldn't be nearly as much a threat as it is in AH, but that's personal conjecture on my part.
It was not up engined....in fact it used the very same engine as the La5FN (of 1944 at least)
Simply put by splitting the model AH gets it right and is able to address many whines pertaining to the mark commonly expressed here.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I got numbers pretty close to this.. I got 16.98 % for the La7 and Spit 16 combined (kills), I took the kills of GVs out and most of the bombers. Think I left the IL-2 in, since I see that being used as a fighter quite a bit.
That actually seems very low to me... I seem to recall the numbers being around 40% for the top 5 a couple years ago. Maybe the arena is getting more diverse, but so slowly that nobody can tell :).
Haha, maybe not so much after all... got 36.16% for the top 5 killings fighters. Using my numbers they were the Spit 16, La7, Niki, P-51D, and Tiffie.
Thanks, Urchin, for checking. I think I forgot to remove the TBM in my original numbers, so my totals are 16.8 and 16.5 excluding the IL2. So we are definitely in the same ballpark.
Just for grins, I did two more data points -- Instead of April, I chose March and December 05. Looks like either the "Lgay" and "Spitdweeb" comments plastered all over are having a slow erosive effect, or the changes in FM narrowed the gap a little between performance and people are beginning to figure that out. In March, the two combined for 18.3% of kills and 17.7% of deaths, and in December the figures were 19.9% and 18.6%.
I tried to look at September, but I forgot that the Spit XVI had not been introduced at that point. All the current XVI flyers seemed to have been flying either Spit Vs or Spit IXs then. Use of ALL SPITS has actually climbed (no surprise with the XVI and VIII intros) from 10.5% of kills, 12.2% of deaths in Sept to 14.9% / 16.2% in December, and 12.5% / 15.0% in April. The plane set that sufferred over the same time frame is the 109s - The G-10 to K-4 conversion I expect being at least partially to blame. In Sept, the percent of kills and deaths were 7.8% / 6.5%, dropping to 4.4% / 4.2% in December and 3.6% / 3.4% in April.
The LA 7's figures have been up and down: Sept - Dec - Mar - Apr figures for kills are 9.5 / 9.0 / 9.3 / 8.6, and death percentages are 8.5 / 8.2 / 8.3 / 7.4.
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I'd chalk up the drop in LW usage to the change in the cockpits... the LW currently have probably the worst forward views of any single engined planes in the game. The old G-10 was the same as the new K-4 (it was modelled to K-4 standards), and overall performance actually got BETTER... the 109F4 is now quite the turny plane.
So I think that the drop in usage is more than likely just reflecting the difficulty in getting kills... You can lose enemy planes in the cockpit bars as close as 100 yards.
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Im just wondering if the La-7 or 5 ever were fitted with cannons that had better range? Any one know?
How about an La-9 for aperk plane?:D
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Tilt I don't think it's the same engine (or if it is, it's NOT running at the same capacity) because the same engine in two nearly-identical airframes would NOT produce a 50+mph speed difference (that our 5FN and 7 currently have modeled)
The 3-gun LA variant was rare. "Most" LA7s had the 2x shvaks, and by most I mean the dominant large majority of thousands and thousands of aircraft (with only a few hundred with 3x b20s saw action).
Hell the 109G6 had a higher percentage of units that had 30mm installed. Hell the 109F4 had a higher percentage of units that had gondolas installed!!
Hell! The F4u1C has a better right to be in this game than the 3-gun LA7!
I think it should be removed (return the LA7 to the pre-eminant 2x shvak variant) and I think that if/when HTC ever gets around to redoing the Lavochkin series they will do this, as they are re-considering things about every unit they update.
I think it's inevitable, I just want to see the gun option removed before we have to wait 3 years for the LAs to be remodeled to "modern" standards :P
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As long as were talkin about homo7's errrrr Lgay's who is in favor of givin it a more threatening name?............................
im thinkin, "THE ANAL BLAZER SEVEN"
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Originally posted by bkbandit
i agree perk both la7 and spit 16, but a noe theres a few more planes runin around that might be considered. The nik could be perked but a hardcore nik pilot might be lost without a plane but it packs 4 cannons and if that aint perked the f4u1c shouldnt be perked. Anything with 4 cannons should make the list.
You only want them perked because you don't know how to fight against them.
ack-ack
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As long as we have odd planes (with respect to the numbers produced) like the 163 and 152 the La7 has the same 'right' to keep its 3 cannons.
At the end of the day, does anybody really think that by removing said option the whining will be over?
So why bother?
The 3cannon argument seems more like a strawman and disguise for a general La-7 whine, am i right? ;)
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Originally posted by Krusty
Tilt I don't think it's the same engine (or if it is, it's NOT running at the same capacity) because the same engine in two nearly-identical airframes would NOT produce a 50+mph speed difference (that our 5FN and 7 currently have modeled)
Well we will have to disagree re the viability of the 3 x B-20 in game.
However I can absolutely confirm that the La7 has an identical engine to the La5FN...........with the same horse power etc etc.
The La7 also had
significant reduction in drag over the La5FN
a more efficient (and possibly a slightly longer) prop than the La5FN
a slight(but not significant) reduction in weight.
The only aspect of performance open to doubt is the La5FN's WEP duration.
There are three source's (LW tests @Rechlin, Free Czech pilots and a Czech journal article) that suggests that the La5FN had limited WEP of only 2 minutes where as everyone seems to agree that the La7 enjoyed WEP upto 10 minutes.
The reason for this was conjectured to be the poor air flow around the La5FN cylinders due to the older inefficient cowling system used. The problem with this conjecture was that the La5 & La5F most certainaly did have WEP capability all be it from an engine without the boost of the N variant. So why should the La5FN suffer? well its engine was rated higher than the previous models and so more cooling would have been required....
also
We now learn (infact for me only this week) that the La5FN was not cowled with the "onion" shaped cowl of the La5 & La5F, but indeed had a cowl with parallel sides more similar to the La7, unfortunately the La5FN also had an exhaust system which packed this area more solidly than the revised La7 system, explaining the difference between cylinder head cooling of the two models.
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As long as we have odd planes (with respect to the numbers produced) like the 163 and 152 the La7 has the same 'right' to keep its 3 cannons.
Quick search again:
TA-152 - somewhere around 10 produced.. great at 40,000 feet, and perked.
ME-163- around 400 produced, 279 seeing service. perked.
So since the numbers of la7's with 3 cannons, and 163's are around the same, maybe it shouldn't be perked than? no way!
I didn't start this thread as a whine. If it was, i would have just said to perk the la7, without mentioning why. I was just wondering why we have 3 cannons as an option, when in reality, most of the the pilots that flew the bird didn't.
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Perk the spit 9 ahead of any lgay anyday, I'd put a spit 9 up against any lgay or spit 16, 9 will out turn the 16 if you can sucker him in to a turn and will chew the lgay under similar circumstances.
Not a hijack here, but why is the spit 14 still perked when the K4 isn't ?
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Originally posted by Speed55
[..]I didn't start this thread as a whine. If it was, i would have just said to perk the la7, without mentioning why. I was just wondering why we have 3 cannons as an option, when in reality, most of the the pilots that flew the bird didn't.
That's true, you didn't. The usual follow-ups, however.. ;)
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Originally posted by Hawco
Perk the spit 9 ahead of any lgay anyday, I'd put a spit 9 up against any lgay or spit 16, 9 will out turn the 16 if you can sucker him in to a turn and will chew the lgay under similar circumstances.
Not a hijack here, but why is the spit 14 still perked when the K4 isn't ?
You're wrong and it just shows you how little you know about the Spitfire IX and the other planes you've mentioned.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You're wrong and it just shows you how little you know about the Spitfire IX and the other planes you've mentioned.
yup, I'm wrong and also about the other planes i've mentioned, ty for pointing that out, glad you did, saved me having to come back later and change it.
Thanks once again
Hawco
:aok
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Originally posted by Speed55
Quick search again:
TA-152 - somewhere around 10 produced.. great at 40,000 feet, and perked.
Not so. Many many hundreds made, but of the H-1 only about 10-12 made it to a unit (as a single group, rather than scattered) before the end of the war. 300 or more were already being finished when the war ended, but they didn't get out to the units fast enough.
Also it's best speed is around 30,000, not 40,000 :)
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Originally posted by Krusty
Not so. Many many hundreds made, but of the H-1 only about 10-12 made it to a unit (as a single group, rather than scattered) before the end of the war. 300 or more were already being finished when the war ended, but they didn't get out to the units fast enough.
Also it's best speed is around 30,000, not 40,000 :)
Taking this criteria (under production) we could double, if not at least more than double, the oft number quoted for La7 3 x B-20 of 368 (which was the number produced by factory 381 which (to correct my post above) was Moscow not Tbilisi)
Further we could extend the period of production beyond the GPW to include the period upto (and including) August 45 whilst Russia invaded Manchuria.