Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: weazel on October 19, 2001, 02:15:00 PM
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Israels Sharon gave an ultimatum to Arafat that he has 7 days to arrest the assasins and quiet down the Palistinian "situation".
The toejams fixing to hit the fan in the middle east. :eek:
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003506 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003506)
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Yep, looks to be an interesting week coming up here....
"War within a week" (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001350019-2001363406,00.html)
[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Gunthr ]
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I read somewhere today that the PA has arrested a couple dozen people from the group that claimed responsibility for the assassination the other day.
I think Arafat is smarter than people think and knows what his countrymen are about to put themselves through. I also think that he is not in control of his government if you can call it that. I'd be scared if I was him, I'm sure he has people on both sides trying/wanting to kill him. I bet his days on terra firma are numbered....
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Guess Sharon thinks we need Israel so badly that this is the time to give up the pretense of peace negotiations, without fear of losing US support.
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More likely Sharon is tired of the toejam, and doesn't care what the US thinks. Imagine if Mrs Rice had been murdered on a hotel roof, and you get the idea.
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Originally posted by Gadfly:
More likely Sharon is tired of the toejam, and doesn't care what the US thinks. Imagine if Mrs Rice had been murdered on a hotel roof, and you get the idea.
yup, we'd put up with this for about a minute.
Go Sharon!
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Originally posted by Udie:
Go Sharon!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1395000/1395080.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1395000/1395080.stm)
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"Big light in sky, Slated to appear in Middle East..."
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Fd, what does that have to do with this incident? Or do you feel that US policy is the excuse for the WTC too?
There are no clean hands over there, Bud.
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Originally posted by Gadfly:
Fd, what does that have to do with this incident? Or do you feel that US policy is the excuse for the WTC too?
There are no clean hands over there, Bud.
Oh, good old fashioned "lump those who don't agree into the same bag" method...
One has nothing to do with the other. Unless you choose to make the association in your mind..
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Sharon is no less a terrorist than Arafat.
Shoot 'em both.
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Not lumping, just trying to figure out what one has to do with the other.
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See? Hang has the right idea.
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Here is some more:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/from_our_own_correspondent/newsid_1160000/1160145.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/from_our_own_correspondent/newsid_1160000/1160145.stm)
Very interesting persona.
I've posted the link to give Oooodie :D some idea as to who is the murdered that he's cheering for.
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I think he is cheering for the reaction, not the man.
Regardless of who he is, I think that in this instance, he made the right call.
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Originally posted by fd ski:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1395000/1395080.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1395000/1395080.stm)
Bunch of crazy lebonese (arabs) did it not him or the Isreali army. AND it has NOTHING to do with what's going on now. I've known too many people from the region in my life to think that they are not whacked out crazy diddlying people. Yes that's right, even the ones that are (were 15 yrs ago) my friends are crazy whacked out arabs. They HATE Jews more than I've seen anybody hate anything in my life. Hell even my Iranian friends think/know the arabs are nuts. This is why Isreal is forced to do what they must to survive
I guess some will hate the jews for all time. Really sad, but I guess that's what happens when your God's chosen people :)
[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Udie ]
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Originally posted by Gadfly:
I think he is cheering for the reaction, not the man.
Regardless of who he is, I think that in this instance, he made the right call.
yeah basicly, I really don't know too much about him. Call it blind support for Isreal I guess.
BTW, just so you guys know. My father was born Jewish but his mother/father died the night he was born so he was adopted by a Christian family. So the way I look at it is that these are "my" people. Go ahead and try and make me change sides Fdski, you'll only fail.
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Israeli army enter Bethlehem, six dead
GAZA CITY, Gaza, Oct. 19 (UPI) -- At least six Palestinians were killed Friday during
confrontations with Israeli troops and tanks that were ordered into the Palestinian-controlled
towns of Bethlehem and Beit Jala.
Israel conducted the incursions ahead of funerals for three members of the militant
Palestinian Fatah, who were killed Thursday when their vehicle exploded.
The incursions had begun in response to the assassination of Israeli Interior Minister
Rehavam Zeevi, who was shot to death Wednesday. The Popular Front for the Liberation
of Palestine said its members killed Zeevi, a hard-liner who opposed a suggestion
of loosening the Israeli clampdown on Palestinian areas. Israel has demanded that
those responsible for the killing be handed over to them, and Palestinian officials
have arrested several people in their investigation.
Israel has recently been loosening economic and movement restrictions on Palestinian
areas in light of an apparently successful cease-fire after more than a year of intifada.
Israel said the clampdowns were necessary given the mortar barrage from Palestinian
areas shortly after the death of Atef Abayat and two relatives --all of whom were
associated with Fatah.
Palestinians said the three were killed as part of the Israeli campaign that targets
people suspected of carrying out attacks on Israeli interests. Israel has termed the
event a "work accident," its euphuism for someone killed while working with a bomb.
With tanks -- at least 30 according to Palestinian witnesses -- and troops moving
into the area by dawn, a well-placed military source said Israel was likely to continue
into the Palestinian areas once reinforcements were deployed.
The incursion was met with several confrontations.
Medical sources said six Palestinians were killed Friday in the Gaza Strip town
of Khan Younis and the West Bank town of Ramallah. A least four of the deaths occurred
when Palestinians either fired weapons or threw stones at Israeli soldiers.
However, hospital sources said a 13-year-old boy was killed after a tank shell exploded
near his house in Khan Younis. Israel said that death occurred shortly after a group
of children were seen playing with an object. And a 36-year-old woman died when she
was caught in cross fire during a gun battle.
At least 12 Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank and Gaza since Zeevi
was killed. An Israeli civilian was killed and two injured in an attack near Mar Sava
Monastery in the Judean Desert.
======================================
powderkeg - as riled up as the nutty Muslims are this is going to explode.
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Originally posted by Udie:
So the way I look at it is that these are "my" people. Go ahead and try and make me change sides Fdski, you'll only fail.
Is that the open-minded and tolerant part of you speaking ?
Who exacly are you blaming for your grand parent's death ?
My grand father was a bastard son of some rich guy in Poland, and best i can tell from the last name, he was prabably jewish.
So what ?
Are they now supposed to be "my" people ?
Should i hate everyone here who is german because they killed "my" people ? Twice for that matter ? Poles and Jews ?
Everyone on this fricking planet is "our" people. There is no us and them. There is only us.
By large token most people want to live till tomorrow and see their kids grow in better world then they lived in.
Your nationalistic stereotypes are nothing more then a flashback to 1930s when some believed then you can put everyone in the same category based on thier passport of size of their nose.
Is every arab terrorist ?
Is every 18 year old american girl a Britny Spears wanna be bimbo ?
Is evveryone from arctic short ?
Are all Swedish people blond ?
Are all black people lazier then white ones ?
Are all polish people stupid ?
Germans evil ?
Jews greedy ?
Americans uneducated ?
How many stupid stereotypes do you need to justfy your own point of view about others ?
Oh, i forgot, they are all nuts !!!
Wake up Udie. World is full of people who don't give a rat's bellybutton about politics, nationalism and finger pointing. They want to live out their days and have safety for their kids.
There are nutcases in every nation on this planet. Do you really want me to start posting links to the US based hate groups ? Will that prove that we have our own share of idiots ?
Hate politics feed on powerty. We don't have powerty so it doesn't breed here, but do study depresion times in this country, you might find it revealing. 99% of idiots you see on TV are representative of 1% of idiots that inhibit this planet. This goes for thier idiots as well as ours.
And in the end, there are only our idiots, for that matter, collectively we all are retarded. Let's put away religions, flags and symbols. Let's forget the race and accent. What is different between you and I ?
Are you better then me ? Or am i better then you ? Why would my accent be a reason for someone to hate me ? Why should your passport be a reason for someone to kill you ?
Some here will continue to tell me that what we are doing right now is just and proper. And it is. Arguing over details doesn't change the fact that we need to get rid of Taliban and Osama, but do look at your own attitudes and convictions. Look at the statements of hate you guys post here. Only difference between then and those of Osama are those who are blamed in them.....
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doesent it say somewhere in the bible(christian) that when the middle east sees peace, the end of the world would be near??.. not in those exact words of course but the same meaning
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"Is every 18 year old american girl a Britny Spears wanna be bimbo "
No, but we can pray they do become one :)
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Excellent post FD, one of the best i've seen on this board. Thank you.
kbman
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Do you realize that left and right aren't even arguing here?
The vast majority of this board agrees, Bin Laden and the Taliban must be stopped. The only way this can happen is by killing them. So be it.
Both the left and the right want to minimize the risk to men and women that are going to affect this.
The only conflict is over long term goals. I think we all agree that killing Bin Laden and the Taleban will not stop terrorism. Nor can our armed forces alone do this. It seems to me that right is concentrating on the immediate and the left on the long term.
I think that when the left goes on (myself included) about where the terrorists are coming from, the right feels that we aren't supporting the men and women in our armed services. And then the insults starts, unless of course the left hasn't yelled 'Nazi' already.
The military alone cannot win this war. But, they can give it a great start. Again, I think we all agree with this. A tautism - killing a terroist is a great way of getting rid of a terrorist. But we also need to do what we can, within the limits of not giving up our freedom or soveriegnty, to try and see if some of their claims are substantiated.
Religous fanatics aside, to the middle-east, the west does not represent freedom and democracy. It represents a group of powerful countries propping up dictators and regimes that have horrible human rights records. For the most part, they aren't trying to destroy our way of life. Our way of life is not what we show them. Freedom and democracy at home but tyrany is okay elsewhere? Of course not.
This is an opportunity to give the people of these countries freedom and democracy. It's probably the greatest gift the west can give them. And it will serve the west's interests as well. When the Taliban is destroyed, I hope that a truely democratic government is put in place. And not another dictator. Luckyily there are some pretty smart guys at the top...well near the top ;) . And I think they've been doing a better job than I could. I hope they keep it up.
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fd
I understand all that and you are right. Now get the other guy to understand it as in the meantime he is trying to kill me so I will try to kill him 1st.
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Germans evil ?
Americans uneducated ?
I'm an evil uneducated German American...muhahaha :D
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One of the best handles I've seen in the arena is SnkyBast (I think it is). Don't you wish we could just remove this amazinhunk's power by stealing his money (bin Laden's I mean)? Wouldn't that be sneaky and underhanded (snicker)? I wonder how long he would live then?
Ah, well. He'll be dead soon.
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Solution:
The American Global Government Commssion.
"Canada, Mexcio, UK in its entirety are now the 51st,52nd and 53rd States ratified into the United States this week..."
Yah. Absorb 'em all. ;)
Think of the tax benefits... and all those new customers, earning frequent flier miles.
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Is that the open-minded and tolerant part of you speaking ?
No that's the I'm pissed off that my country is at war side talking.
Who exacly are you blaming for your grand parent's death ?
What does it matter who I blame, I don't blame anybody, except the crook who shot my grandand and caused my grandmom's premature delivery and death.
My grand father was a bastard son of some rich guy in Poland, and best i can tell from the last name, he was prabably jewish.
So what ?
Are they now supposed to be "my" people ?
Should i hate everyone here who is german because they killed "my" people ? Twice for that matter ? Poles and Jews ?
Everyone on this fricking planet is "our" people. There is no us and them. There is only us.
Unfortunately some of "our" people want to kill everybody else on the planet. There's a really large chunk of em that want all Jews dead too. What are we supposed to do about them? It would be nice if everybody could just get along, but that ain't never going to happen. So we could talk to them, but that doesn't work because they are evil and they lie. We've tried apease them for too long and look where it has gotten us. So I say kill the ones that are trying/wanting to kill us. Do it big, do it nasty so that nobody else will ever get the gumption to do it again.
By large token most people want to live till tomorrow and see their kids grow in better world then they lived in.
Your nationalistic stereotypes are nothing more then a flashback to 1930s when some believed then you can put everyone in the same category based on thier passport of size of their nose.
So is this how you call me a nazi without saying the word? Sorry bud but that's just pathetic. My grandfather and great uncles were over there trying to save your grandfather from Hitler. diddly you very much for comparing me to him...
Is every arab terrorist ?
no but most terrorist are arab...
Is every 18 year old american girl a Britny Spears wanna be bimbo ?
Is evveryone from arctic short ?
Are all Swedish people blond ?
Are all black people lazier then white ones ?
Are all polish people stupid ?
Germans evil ?
Jews greedy ?
Americans uneducated ?
How many stupid stereotypes do you need to justfy your own point of view about others ?
I don't think I stereotyped anybody. I said all my arab friends were nuts, because they were. I stopped being friends with them back in '91 when I saw them frothing at the mouth after that scud hit those barracks killing 28. That was a sureal moment that was, me the only American in the room with about 10 palestinians.
You can try to stereo type me as some sort of nazi racist, but your only being what you accused me of being. It just don't work like that. I grew up in Houston, Tx. Most people think oooh texas, must be a hick. Guess what? I grew up in one of the most multiculteral places on earth. I had black friends when I was 2 yrs old. I had an Indian friend in first grade. From 3rd to 5th grade there were families from Norway, Japan, and Mexico living within 5 houses of my house. Their kids were my best friends. I was introduced to more cultures by the time I was 10 yrs old than most people are in their whole lives. So I've seen first hand that most people/cultures are alike and want the same things in life, the main thing being peace.
Oh, i forgot, they are all nuts !!!
alot of them seem to be.
Wake up Udie. World is full of people who don't give a rat's bellybutton about politics, nationalism and finger pointing. They want to live out their days and have safety for their kids.
There are nutcases in every nation on this planet. Do you really want me to start posting links to the US based hate groups ? Will that prove that we have our own share of idiots ?
I never said their weren't nutcases everywhere. Hell i'd be we got more people over here that are bent than anywhere else in the world. But they don't go around crashing airplanes into buildings.
Don't you think an Isreali want to live out his or her life in peace? With out some crazed palestinian teenager lobbing a mortar into their neighborhood? Don't you think the average Isreali would like to live a life that didn't consist of every country that surrounds their country wanting them all dead? Isreal is just in protecting itself from people that want it destroyed.
Hate politics feed on powerty. We don't have powerty so it doesn't breed here, but do study depresion times in this country, you might find it revealing. 99% of idiots you see on TV are representative of 1% of idiots that inhibit this planet. This goes for thier idiots as well as ours.
Hate politics was alive and well here until 9/11/01. Probobly still is too. Politics is the last thing on my mind right now. I'm hoping that this will be some of the good to come out of this whole ordeal. Maybe the left and right and finaly get together and do what's right for our nation.
And in the end, there are only our idiots, for that matter, collectively we all are retarded. Let's put away religions, flags and symbols. Let's forget the race and accent. What is different between you and I ?
Are you better then me ? Or am i better then you ? Why would my accent be a reason for someone to hate me ? Why should your passport be a reason for someone to kill you ?
Wouldn't it be nice if everybody on this planet could understand that seemingly extreemly simple consept?
Some here will continue to tell me that what we are doing right now is just and proper. And it is. Arguing over details doesn't change the fact that we need to get rid of Taliban and Osama, but do look at your own attitudes and convictions. Look at the statements of hate you guys post here. Only difference between then and those of Osama are those who are blamed in them.
We are just in what we are doing, and it has needed to be done for a long time. I do think we are lucky that we have Bush in white house. He's has a lot more wisdom than people give/gave him credit for. He has assembled one of the strongest cabinets if not the strongest of my lifetime. I just hope the rest of the world has the stomach for what has to be done. You have to know that Iraq is next.
And just so you know. I do want the Palestinians to have their own state. You may remember that they almost did. I seem to remember a few years back that Isreal accepted one of Clinton's deals but there was a stumbling block on the Palestine side. That silly little clause in their charter or constitution, what ever they call it, that calls for the destruction of the Isreali state. They wouldn't take it out. Would you want somebody who'd main goal in life was to kill you and your family forcing living next door to you and forcing himself on to your property all the time?
I don't have any answers. I just know that we have to stop these evil people from doing what they do. If America has to go it alone I'm willing to do it, because it's the right thing to do. And in the end that's usualy what us fat cat sleeping Americans do when times get tough.
One more thing. You can get angry and hate me for what I believe in, but please don't ever try and compair me to a nazi again. That really pisses me off bad. It's uncalled for and just down right rude. I never called you a nazi I don't think...
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Udie, how's the return to the BBS going?
:)
Smile, bro... not everyone's going to agree and some of them can't resist the ad hominem argument.
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Some quotes from Sharon
No one will touch Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]! Or Gaza either! (Judea and Samaria) belong to us. They have been ours for thousands of years, eternally.
August 1982
Yes, I am for the expulsion of anyone who throws a stone in the occupied territories.
March 16 1988
But while the civilian deaths were a tragedy, the Kibbiya (sic) raid was also a turning point. After so many defeats and demoralising failures it was now clear that Israeli forces were again capable of finding and hitting targets far behind enemy lines.
On the commando raid he led in 1954, in which 69 civilians were killed in the Jordanian village of Qibiya, from his autobiography Warrior, published by Simon and Shuster, New York, 1989
Standing with the cabinet ministers on a high hill, I pointed out exactly what I thought was needed. If in the future we wanted in any way to control this area, I told them, we would need to establish a Jewish presence now. Otherwise we would have no motivation to be there during difficult times later on.
On his plan to move Jewish settlers into the Gaza Strip in the early 1970s, from Warrior
I never accepted the Oslo agreement as it was.
January 5 2000 http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,434618,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,434618,00.html)
Regarding Sabra and Shatila, where the Israeli army stood back and allowed a Lebanese militia to massacre a couple of thousand civilians, the Kahan inquiry, led by an Israeli supreme court judge, ruled that Sharon bore responsibility for the massacre, and was in a position to know what would happen when he allowed the militia into the camp.
Sharon doesn't want peace. He believes that the West Bank and Gaza are part of Israel, and all his life he has been fighting to absorb those areas into Israel.
Sharon is similar to Milosovic in many ways. He has tried to expand the borders of his country, he has used ethnic cleansing and massacres of civilians to achieve that aim.
Look at the Qibiya raid. A group of men cross the border under cover of darkness, and attack a village, throwing bombs into houses and shooting anyone who comes out. Those men were Israelis, led by Sharon. How does that make him any different from a Palestinian terrorist?
[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: Nashwan ]
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And just so you know. I do want the Palestinians to have their own state. You may remember that they almost did. I seem to remember a few years back that Isreal accepted one of Clinton's deals but there was a stumbling block on the Palestine side. That silly little clause in their charter or constitution, what ever they call it, that calls for the destruction of the Isreali state. They wouldn't take it out. Would you want somebody who'd main goal in life was to kill you and your family forcing living next door to you and forcing himself on to your property all the time?
They voted to remove it on the 14th December 98.
In fact, it is largely Israel that has reneged on the agreements. The Oslo accord called for the release of all Palestinian prisoners held by Israel, who had committed their crimes prior to 1993. In the event, Israel released only about 70% of them. The Wye accord called for another 750 to be released, but israel released mainly those convicted of normal criminal acts, not the members of PLO, Hamas etc agreed to.
The transfer of land agreed to at Oslo and Wye River has also been delayed or postponed by Israel, to protect the settlers, whose numbers have been increasing dramatically in recent years.
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Arafat is in deep doo doo.
The Israelis call the murder of the minister their "11th". As such, they're using the very same arguments against the Palestinians as the US is doing against the Taliban - you're harboring terrorists.
If Arafat gives them up, he'll have war with his own people. If he does not, he'll have war with Israel.
Man, the world today is like a glass house filled with gun powder occupied by seven year olds with matches. Ugh.
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Man, the world today is like a glass house filled with gun powder occupied by seven year olds with matches. Ugh.
Yep... retarded 7 year olds at that.
Scary. And worse thena the Missile Crisis.. to many players in this mess; all or any can touch it off.
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The species learns something from every disaster.
World War II was a cataclysmic disaster; we survived and improved. (Note: improved does not imply perfection.)
If we survive the coming problems, the species will improve.
If we don't, we have only ourselves to blame and the cockroaches get to rule the earth after all.
(Head Cockroach: "The Carpenter Ants must die! They don't believe in the Great Coackroach that is the Father of Us All!)
Laugh. It's life and it isn't perfect.
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To late toad. Here in east Texas the roach's are big enough to wear Hats and boots, and they are already taking over.
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Easy, if it's only two boots, those are just normal politicians.
If it's six boots... look out!
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You guys in Tx must have never seen a NYC cockroach. Now THOSE mothers are tough. And they f*ckin FLY - ugh!. Otoh, i've never been so grossed out as during a visit to Tx in September, during one of your regulary scheduled cricket plagues of Biblical Proportions. Man, it was like a Hitchcock movie, and the entire state smelled like DEATH. <shudder>
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Originally posted by Red Ant:
You guys in Tx must have never seen a NYC cockroach. Now THOSE mothers are tough. And they f*ckin FLY - ugh!. Otoh, i've never been so grossed out as during a visit to Tx in September, during one of your regulary scheduled cricket plagues of Biblical Proportions. Man, it was like a Hitchcock movie, and the entire state smelled like DEATH. <shudder>
Crickets are a mess this time of year, but our roaches not only fly... THEY BITE!!!! :eek: :eek:
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Udie, if i wanted to call you a Nazi, i would have.
Franly political correctness never bothered me much.
There was way more to Nazi philosophy then just simple racism and hate. If you studied your history you'd find that most contries of western europe at that time and US had some soft of hate/rasism based policies in effect. One might argue that in USA it took till 60s to have it removed.
As such, my comment was towards overwhealming global mindset during those days. If you choose to associate it with Nazism, that's your choice.
As for the rest of your post, I'm afraid that you're proving my point.
Did you have any palestinian neighbours when you were 10 ?
Eagler, my post was mostly directed some of the views of current "israel/palestine" developments and commencts on this board.
But it applies to everything i guess :)
[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: fd ski ]
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Everything down here bites, stings, burns,pokes, or gives you the finger. The worst is a GD caterpillar.
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..or gives you the finger. The worst is a GD caterpillar.
Yah; takes the critter 20 minutes to finish flippin you off.. not unlike our NYC cabbies.