Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SFRT - Frenchy on May 06, 2006, 02:32:06 PM
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Created a monster:cry
(http://transamcountry.com/articles/whatif/SE_500.jpg)
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It looks confused.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
It looks confused.
Yup I'm gonna have to go with blueJ on this one. And just to piggyback on what he said that looks more like a Trans Am to me. :huh
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Let me explain for you two::)
In the 60s/70s the Camaro/Firebird shared the same body shape. So since the GTO is getting scraped, and Pontiac don't have a frame, the new Firebird might share the Camaro base, add a sprinkle of retrostyling and "Voila".
As every pontiac enthousiast, I'm waiting for a firebird revival. Contrary to the popular opinion, I don't like the new camaro, such project drawings generate some teeth grinding.
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PFFFFFT..... so sorry looking!
They should have styled it after the '69 Camaro....
Chevy blew it with this!
Mac <--- Had a '68 350 and a '69 327 Camaro... blew up the 327 and dropped in a LT1 outta '78 Vette into my '69 Coupe... I smoked FireTurds and Novasses at the light. G60 15's deep well ET's on the rear and runnin Cragers on the front. Had a Craig 8Track and tapes that would make you cry now.
Sold the '68 to a friend who rolled it 4 Months later... almost killed a woman.
While in Germany my Brother was hurtin on $$$ and decided to part my '69 out... Vulchers were all over it before I got word. That was a wall between me and Rick for the longest time. Drop kicked my Brothers asss when I returned...Now I just wish I had my Brother back.
Cars are kewl, but Family is better.
mac
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Let me explain for you two::)
In the 60s/70s the Camaro/Firebird shared the same body shape. So since the GTO is getting scraped, and Pontiac don't have a frame, the new Firebird might share the Camaro base, add a sprinkle of retrostyling and "Voila".
As every pontiac enthousiast, I'm waiting for a firebird revival. Contrary to the popular opinion, I don't like the new camaro, such project drawings generate some teeth grinding.
I am with ya, that thing is smurfy and whats with mixing late gen 2 crap like the eagle with a first gen retro car?
GM so got it wrong with that body.
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See Rule #4
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I kinda like it. Beats the new Mustang abortion by a mile.
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Yup...got a Pontiac instead of a Chevy badge too.
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AWMac, u don't get it do you?:rolleyes: I'm not saying it's a Camaro, I'm saying it's how the Firebird might look like if they share the Camaro's base, as historically GM was inclined to.
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68 Firebird
(http://www.classicfirebird.com/1968/68blk.jpg)
68 Camaro
(http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/chevrolet-camaro/images/chevrolet-camaro-1968d.jpg)
73 Camaro
(http://www.martzchassis.net/cope.jpg)
73 firebird
(http://www.therebel.nl/images/Galery/page3/1973%20Pontiac%20Firebird%20Ta.jpg)
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Frenchy, you 'll have to excuse them. Try to avoid speaking German in the future. They might get it then. :D
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73 firebird
(http://www.therebel.nl/images/Galery/page3/1973%20Pontiac%20Firebird%20Ta.jpg) [/B]
I love that bird, way back in the day my old man was still around, we considered picking up a basket case SD 455 a 73.
We decided agaist it cause we new GTOs better.
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I dont understand what theres not to understand...if that made sense.
I think it smurfy. "It looks confused" was meant toward the car. Not you.
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The Chrysler retro line looks better
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Kind of reminds me of the vehicle the Marines used in Aliens.
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:lol
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The Smokey and the Bandit T/Amaro!!! I LIKE IT!!!
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The grill doesn't look Pontiac-y enough, but I think it looks pretty good. Better than its Camaro incarnation.
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I like the new retro look, they have been getting to a point where every car had that bubble look and all looked the same.
Chrysler could really turn some heads with a new hemi cuda.
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Typically late-American in concept. Over-weight, over-designed, needlessly complex, with a gigantic turkey decal on the hood.
Whatever happened to the virtues of simplicity?
Less is more.
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I like it, but I like this version better:
(http://transamcountry.com/articles/whatif/transamconcept.jpg)
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I looks like a Hot Wheels car. I like a good "muscle car" but why they are scrapping the new GTO is beyond me. Its a nice ride with enough umph to get you a kick in the pants. BUT its still not like it should be.
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The pontiac mark on the front says Firebird ( lets not get into the big bird on the hood)... But whatever... An F car is and F car... camero... Firebird.. The only difference is pontiac sticks more plastic garbage on it...
Any how... Looks like the design guys at Chevy are making a half hearted attempt to follow Dodge's beautiful idea... Sadly, it looks like chevy kinda missed the mark and made a bastardized ugly bird/camaro and the Dodge kids hit the nail right on the head and drove it straight into hell
(http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-24942-567237-25692/2008%20Challenger%20002.jpg)
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Anyhow, the picture speaks for itself..
but the pontiac is 'confused'. Its mixing about 3 different era's of car into one... The scoop is 70's, the B pillar is 60's, the front is modern.
Really, if you're going to go retro... pick a season, you can't cram every year of the car into one and expect it to be pretty. Dodge did it right, they picked 1970 and they stuck to it and modernized it...
GM tried to cram a whole model history into a single car and it looks like a mutt.
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friggin americans....:t
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Originally posted by Kurt
The pontiac mark on the front says Firebird ( lets not get into the big bird on the hood)... But whatever... An F car is and F car... camero... Firebird.. The only difference is pontiac sticks more plastic garbage on it...
Any how... Looks like the design guys at Chevy are making a half hearted attempt to follow Dodge's beautiful idea... Sadly, it looks like chevy kinda missed the mark and made a bastardized ugly bird/camaro and the Dodge kids hit the nail right on the head and drove it straight into hell
(http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-24942-567237-25692/2008%20Challenger%20002.jpg)
They got it perfectly right!
Only gay euros should not like this car.
T
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I seen the pics of that trans am a while back.
There not killin the gto. There goin to restyle it thank god. BUt it aint goin nowhere. Chevy is killin the monte carlo this year so they will have room for camaro later.
I saw both the camaro and challenger inside and out at the nyc auto show last month. The challenger is nice but they didnt change anything. All the did was replace the metal with plastic and the interior has no life to it. It looks like a chip foose car not a new challenger. The camaro is different. My friend has a 68 with a 454 and a turbo 400 i noe what a muscle car is all about :aok . Up close the car has what u except from a camaro. I have a 86 and the models after mine i really dont like(there like freakin boats), they dont say muscle car but this new one does. Its bulky where it needs to be and curvy where it needs to be. It was hard to get up close to the thing cause there was a consist crowd around it. U have to get up to the car in person to really breath it in. Give it a chance cause i noe 9/10 of u didnt even see the thing up close. The challenger wasnt that much of a big deal after u saw the camaro. And could dodge really come out with it? They got that ulgy "4 door" charger. There supposed to give it a 2 door opition but i think they need to give the whole car a make over. All it is is a over powered grocery getter. If they come out with it which i doubt they will, they will prob make it a "special" edition car make like 500 of them and sell them for 45 grand.
Ford is the one to start the retro car thing. First it was the thunder bird and they followed that with the mustang. The gt500 is nice. They had the black and gold one at the show that was in the paper, it was a sweet machine.
They black and gold firebird in the pic is what would happen if the new camaro and a 77 bandit edition made "love". Thats what i wanted before i got my 86, a 77 or 78 trans am. Ponitac doesnt have room for a firebird. They would have to kill the gto and there not doin it.
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Pardon my french, but the Dodge's headlights eyebrow looks a bit like the ones ricers decal onto theirs. Other than that it's nice.
The Pontiac doesn't work.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
I seen the pics of that trans am a while back.
There not killin the gto. There goin to restyle it thank god. BUt it aint goin nowhere. Chevy is killin the monte carlo this year so they will have room for camaro later.
I saw both the camaro and challenger inside and out at the nyc auto show last month. The challenger is nice but they didnt change anything. All the did was replace the metal with plastic and the interior has no life to it. It looks like a chip foose car not a new challenger. The camaro is different. My friend has a 68 with a 454 and a turbo 400 i noe what a muscle car is all about :aok . Up close the car has what u except from a camaro. I have a 86 and the models after mine i really dont like(there like freakin boats), they dont say muscle car but this new one does. Its bulky where it needs to be and curvy where it needs to be. It was hard to get up close to the thing cause there was a consist crowd around it. U have to get up to the car in person to really breath it in. Give it a chance cause i noe 9/10 of u didnt even see the thing up close. The challenger wasnt that much of a big deal after u saw the camaro. And could dodge really come out with it? They got that ulgy "4 door" charger. There supposed to give it a 2 door opition but i think they need to give the whole car a make over. All it is is a over powered grocery getter. If they come out with it which i doubt they will, they will prob make it a "special" edition car make like 500 of them and sell them for 45 grand.
Ford is the one to start the retro car thing. First it was the thunder bird and they followed that with the mustang. The gt500 is nice. They had the black and gold one at the show that was in the paper, it was a sweet machine.
They black and gold firebird in the pic is what would happen if the new camaro and a 77 bandit edition made "love". Thats what i wanted before i got my 86, a 77 or 78 trans am. Ponitac doesnt have room for a firebird. They would have to kill the gto and there not doin it.
Spoken like a true Chevy bias nut.
You talk to enough car guys and you find the Chevy crowd the most bais.
Most can never appreciate any other car not even from other gm products.
Where as other make followers can appreciate Chevy's stand outs.
The Challenger concept is what its suppose to be .. a salute to the 70 not all years of the Challenger.
Its been said the camaro concept is to much of a mishmash. It looks like 3 people were fighting about what year the car should resemble.
Ohh and I believe it was dodge that started it , not ford . Although the GT is probably the best at looking like its predicesor.
Bronk
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Originally posted by bkbandit
I seen the pics of that trans am a while back.
There not killin the gto. There goin to restyle it thank god. BUt it aint goin nowhere. Chevy is killin the monte carlo this year so they will have room for camaro later.
If u can buy a GTO in 2007, more power to you, but I doubt u will be able to. So far they have yet to find a frame for the GTO, no frame, no car.
Maybe you consider stoping the Camaro production in 2002 "restyling", but at the time "Scraping" was on everybody's mouth.
I have a find who's like you, he has a V6 80s Camaro (85 I think), and he doesn't like the subsequent models. I think he's nuts, has I would take that : Deliberate choice of picture to induce CNN style brain wash
(http://i21.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/00/64/25_12.JPG)
Over that
(http://www.knights-rule.com/cars/ralph_camaro.jpg)
But to each his own taste. (I love the retro 70, more than anything else, even the new stang. BTW the gold/black one you saw is a remake of the Shelby GT350Hertz Mustang, as those where available for rent to the general public from 66 to 68. I know a couple of guys that used t rent them, swap the engine with there's for the week end, drag race, swap the engine back, and return the car):lol
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Originally posted by Kurt
The pontiac mark on the front says Firebird ( lets not get into the big bird on the hood)... But whatever... An F car is and F car... camero... Firebird.. The only difference is pontiac sticks more plastic garbage on it...
Any how... Looks like the design guys at Chevy are making a half hearted attempt to follow Dodge's beautiful idea... Sadly, it looks like chevy kinda missed the mark and made a bastardized ugly bird/camaro and the Dodge kids hit the nail right on the head and drove it straight into hell
(http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-24942-567237-25692/2008%20Challenger%20002.jpg)
Looks too european. Sort of looks like an old Opel Manta to me.
(http://www.fastdrive.org/img/Galleri16.jpg)
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Originally posted by uvwpvW
Looks too european. Sort of looks like an old Opel Manta to me.
(http://www.fastdrive.org/img/Galleri16.jpg)
Thems fightin words! :mad:
Actually, thats funny how similar it is, but only in shape in the frond end... Its about twice as big and has more than 4 times the horsepower of an Opel.
Those pictures above are to scale... :confused:
Notice how the Dodge could easily run over the opel.
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LOL :D
Btw. that particular Opel has about 500 hp under the hood, but it's greatly modified.
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Pretty insane if you ask me.
http://www.fastdrive.org/1/p/car-videos/car-videos.php?view.380.0.25
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Originally posted by Kurt
Any how... Looks like the design guys at Chevy are making a half hearted attempt to follow Dodge's beautiful idea... Sadly, it looks like chevy kinda missed the mark and made a bastardized ugly bird/camaro and the Dodge kids hit the nail right on the head and drove it straight into hell
(http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-24942-567237-25692/2008%20Challenger%20002.jpg)
HELL YEAH!
I am not a dodge fan but that thing is SICK.
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I apreciate other cars, i just think that its more of a chip foose car then a 2009 or whenever it is supposed to come out(or if) I seen the car and the thing i really didnt like about the car was the interior, there to much pastic in there. Its a nice car but all it does is make u want the 1970 challenger. The car should be ablle to stand alone as a new model not a retro challeger. Its a nice machine and i would like to see it come out, but i dont think dodge has a spot on the roster to fit it.
I heard that there buildin restyled gto on the same chassis as the camaro(they say its a concpet but there comin out with it). If a trans am was to come out i would like to see it come out with a different chassis then the camaro, so it could be a different car. They can always build the gto on the g6 chassis and do a trans am on the camaro chassis but i would like to see a different car. Im watchin smokey and the bandit rite now and if they can do somethin like that i would love it. I hate that the camaro and trans am are pretty much the same car. And now there goin to use the same engine, not like in the 60s and 70s when u would the pontiac 400s and chevy 396s.
My biggest concern with all these cars is goin to be the price. If they want an arm and leg for one it dont matter how nice it looks. Look what they did with the vette, the zo6 is like 80 grand. I remember when a new one was 50 grand and that was alot.:O
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The Vette is no longer the poor man's Ferrari it once was. It has evolved into a supercar in its own right, and with the price tag to match.
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That front on view of the Challenger looks great... unfortunately, it doesn't look nearly as good from the sides, IMHO. I can't pinpoint it what i dislike about it... maybe it's the short nose.
(http://www.allpar.com/images/dodge/challenger/front-quarter.jpg)
(http://www.allpar.com/images/dodge/challenger/rear-quarter.jpg)
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The corvette in my eyes should never be 80 grand. And for 80 grand theres alot better cars out there, the funny thing is this was told to me by the salesman at the chevy dealership, the zo6 is a limited edition the salesman told me because for that price gm wasnt excpetin to sale many. I think the regular ls2 vette is like 40 grand. The zo6 should be no more then 55 grand, now thats a poor mans super car. That car would be unbeatable for that price. The lotus elise is suppoed to be like 45 50 grand and this is a car that can race against a porche so why would i give gm 80 for a vette. I dont think the vette is a super car for the simple fact that it cant beat its competition. If a z06 vette could go and beat the hell out of a lambo i wouldnt care if it was 80 grand but the thing was no chance. The last great vette was the zr1 which could hang with a ferrari for a fraction of the price.
I love muscle cars and i think america needs them. When we lose in baseball to the japs theres a problem and dont forgot that our players are the highest paid players in the world. I want to see the camaro and the challenger on the street along with a newly styled gto(or trans am watever comes first) and the mustang. The issue is goin to be the price. Look at the average national income and that should dictate the dam price. These cars are supposed to be for everybody. I excpet the gto and challenger to be alittle more expensive but camaros and mustangs were always ur beginner level muscle car(unless u had a zL1 camaro or a gt500). I dont think it should cost a arm and leg for a 330 horse strong tranny and tight rear car. There not race cars there FUN cars. These cars aint hand crafted there machine built and tested. I dont want to here "well younger kids will prob speed with it" because i see alot of hondas and acuras speedin and nobody is jackin there prices. I talk to old men and they say "well my first car was this nice little 67 camaro, i loved the way that 302 sounded". Corvette wants to be 38 40 grand no problem but camaros is a different story. Look at gto sells, there horrible becuase younger guys cant afford them. The older guy will hav credit built up and enuff to go after a vette. Im pretty sure the one thing we all have in common is the love for muscle cars, there nothin like them in the world(they make the voices go away:lol ). Problem is that muscle cars in there day were affordable. If u could make a srt4 neon and have it run a high 13 second quarter mile(watch is almost as fast as the stock camaros in 2002) for 20 grand y not give me a v8 that can do it in 12 for 22 or 24 grand.
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(http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-images/media/11-chevrolet-camaro-concept-2006-2007-2008-2009.jpg)
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how do u post pics, i got a pic of one with a different grill.
That a good shot that shows the curves on the car.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
I apreciate other cars, i just think that its more of a chip foose car then a 2009 or whenever it is supposed to come out(or if) I seen the car and the thing i really didnt like about the car was the interior, there to much pastic in there. Its a nice car but all it does is make u want the 1970 challenger. The car should be ablle to stand alone as a new model not a retro challeger. Its a nice machine and i would like to see it come out, but i dont think dodge has a spot on the roster to fit it.
My biggest concern with all these cars is goin to be the price. If they want an arm and leg for one it dont matter how nice it looks. Look what they did with the vette, the zo6 is like 80 grand. I remember when a new one was 50 grand and that was alot.:O
LMAO lots a plastic he says . Show me a modern pony car that doesn't have a ton of plastic. The days of a cheap pony car are gone period end of story. The last cheap pony car was the 86 mustang lx notch back ($9700)
The reason why it was so cheap.... no frills. This was the last true pony car.
this car could be spec out with..
1. no AC (less weight, no power robbing extra pulley)
2. No power anything ( all those motors to move stuff mean weight)
3. 3.73 gears for a minimal fee you could get good rear gear with posi traction.
4. no premium sound .. Use the $$ to buy the rear gear .
5. lx notch back weighed less..
This was a true pony car for its time.. cheap fun.
All these so called modern pony cars have to much crap.
If the manufacturers would go back to basics... like the above set up.
Then they would sell a ton of cars.
Make the people who want all the crap pay for for it . Not the guy who wants a no frills pony car.
It's to simple so it would never happen.
Bronk
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
(http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-images/media/11-chevrolet-camaro-concept-2006-2007-2008-2009.jpg)
That will do well when the mullet becomes a popular hair style again.
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Take a good like at the interior of the challenger and ull see wat im sayin. Its not like the plastic in my boys 99 mustang. I figured it would at least be a high grade plastic.
I want them to have a straight "joe performance" pony car aswell. Take out all the power things like power seats, mirrors, windows, keyless entry,remote start, heated seats,etc. A simple maybe 2 speaker sound(one in each door)system with a single disc player and a am/fm radio, after that maybe an ac and that it. Leather seats r optional but for the "joe performance" car a solid grade of plush would do just nicely(pluch like in my boys 99 mustang is great, u dont really miss the leathers). A solid black interior with the exterior color of my choice. The rest of the car is all business, the only computers i want on the car is the fuel injection system and the traction control. I simple drive train, a 350 engine with 330 horse backed with a rock solid 4 speed or 3 speed auto(my choice) with a hardcore 3.73 rear. This would be ur z28 package. For general motors to mass produce a car like this cant cost them much. Look at lotus and there elise, they designed a car to give u the best bang for ur buck, why cant our auto companys do the same(there a bunch of crooks) This is a performance package for a guy that wants to move not a guy that want to do his nails.
I rather see a guy with a mullet then i guy walkin down the street with a hand bag. Men need to start actin like men. I see toooo many guys that go to nail salons with there women, i ask myself whos wearin the skirt in this situation. Maybe some muscle cars will put that fire back in them and remind them that there men.
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I actually like the Firebird concept Frenchy posted, but having read this thread, I feel guilty for so liking.
I now know I was wrong.
-Sik
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Dunt sweat it Sik. I like the Firebird cncept much better than the Camaro, for sure.
But the Challenger is spot on, only if they put a decent engine in it.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Dunt sweat it Sik. I like the Firebird cncept much better than the Camaro, for sure.
But the Challenger is spot on, only if they put a decent engine in it.
I was working in a Library in 1999 when they said they were going to kill Plymouth. On the whole I wasn't bothered by the news, but there was a big part of me that was sad that there would never be another Barracuda. When the Charger came out I nearly wept again. I always prefered the fish.
-Sik
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You would have died the other night then Sik. The Wife and I went out to a restuarant in Plano, which is sort of a cruisers hangout.
There was a 69 or 70 Hemi Cuda there. Looked like it just drove off the dealership floor too. Beautiful. There was also a Cuda convertible there as well.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Dunt sweat it Sik. I like the Firebird cncept much better than the Camaro, for sure.
But the Challenger is spot on, only if they put a decent engine in it.
Dont like the current Hemi or Dodge V8 line?
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Are you asking about the cars Gto? Nope, I do not really care for them. The Challenger looks good though. I have no information on what engine choices they will offer with it.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
only if they put a decent engine in it.
Everything I've seen (specifically from an article in Automobile and an online article I read somewhere) says its getting the extra big hemi that goes in the Charger Daytona. I forget the displacement, but I think we're talking about 400ish horsepower. Those numbers would suggest its tuned a little higher than the Daytona
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Chrysler's problem isn't their engines. It's the other 95% of the car that is a POS. I'll never own another one again.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
You would have died the other night then Sik. The Wife and I went out to a restuarant in Plano, which is sort of a cruisers hangout.
Wife 2.0 informed me that I won't be buying a car with a bird on the hood this summer. I don't think she "gets it." Sigh.
Is there a patch I can DL somewhere?
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Is there a patch I can DL somewhere?
Should be ready to go in another few thousand years. Still working on it.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Chrysler's problem isn't their engines. It's the other 95% of the car that is a POS. I'll never own another one again.
I don't know when you owned your last Mopar, and I'm not going to speak for the small cars that are built by mitsubishi (a known garbage car producer) such as the stealth, and various others....
But I can tell you this.
I'm on my second Dodge Dakota and I would never even look at another light truck. Its the best and most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. And I'm 20 years into my drivers license...
And Everyone I know who has owned an American made mopar (not a mitsubishi) has been thrilled with it... These include the trucks, the new crysler 300H, Magnum, Charger etc... I'll be getting a charger when the truck is paid down more... Unless the Challenger goes to production... then I'll be on that.
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my biggest problem with all the cars is the prices.
Im wit bronk, give me a straight performane car for a cheap price. If the challenger comes with a 6.1 hemi its goin to be expensive. The thing will cost prob 55 grand plus taxes and title(plus insurance), how many of u are willin to pay that. The srt charger costs about that now, unless dodge wants the challenger to go head up with the mustang it will prob have a high price tag. In my world the camaro mustang and challenger all compete for our money by upin the perfromance improveing the opitions and LOWERIN THE PRICE. If it worked in 67 it should work now.
There are 2 cars on the market that are real sleepers when it comes to performance and they cost about 20 grand or under. The chevy cobalt(the supercharged one) and the dodge srt4(turbo charged). Both of these cars run high 13 to super low 14 second quarter miles, the last 2002 camaro ran a mid 13 second quarter mile. I heard that and i was shocked, i looked it up and it checked out, a guy with a dogde posted his time. For 24 grand i should be able to run that quarter mile in a super low 13 to high 12s in a camaro or maybe a challenger bring it out.
I like them both(im not a bais chevy guy but i like the camaro better) and i hope the come out with them the same way i seen them in the auto show. I remember the charger concept car from a while back. It was a aggressively styled two door and they turned it into a dam over powered family car, its a dodge 300m(i hope they remodel it along with the gto, for the arrival of the camaro and challenger, maybe even a restyled mustang could be ready by then). I want to see a second muscle car era, alot of reving and burnouts and parkway drag races. Thats the american way:aok
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Still can't hold a candle to my baby... :)
(http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/timeline/05/06/BlackPonyCoupe-1.jpg)
Mine is just like this, except it now has Rousch window lovers and spoiler. Gold Le Mans stripes will be going on after I get a Ram-Air hood installed.
I agree with a lot of you guys though, the new Challenger is a beauty- it LOOKS like a badoscar musclecar. The new Camaro is OK, but I think it falls way short.
Still much better than the POS they called the GTO though.
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Originally posted by Kurt
(http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-24942-567237-25692/2008%20Challenger%20002.jpg)
Oh...SNAP!
That is an example of a retro car done right.
This is an example of a retro car done wrong.
(http://transamcountry.com/articles/whatif/SE_500.jpg)
At least they chose the right year to retro-ize on the grill, but the wrong year everywhere else. They should've chosen the 1977 T/A and stuck with it bumper to bumper.
The good news is, the Solstice is getting a turbocharger in 2007. The bad news is that the Saturn Sky Redline looks better.
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That black trans am isnt even a real concept, just a pics someone else scraped together. I have seen some concepts on the web done by amaterus that look real good but others that just shouldnt see the lite.
I seen that solstice at the auto show. it said 300 somethin horse out of that small engine, that goin to be a rocket with that small size. The saturn does look better(heard to believe im saying that about a saturn:lol ). Im pretty sure they will put a turbo on the saturn aswell.
That mustang u got is nice but i hope its the gt, v6 pony cars suck. Its like haveing the size of a body builder with 20 inch arms and only being able to curl 15 pounds. I like that gt 500, it supposed to have 475 horse. That sounds like tons of fun:aok
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I always had the hots for the extremely clean but snazzy looking 1981 Firebird WITHOUT the decal and spoiler. Drove one once, liked it, but ... (sigh) ... just wasn't me.
Who is me? 2005 Camry dark gray 4 cylinder automatic LE sedan ... the essence of practical. :confused:
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U need that big bird on the hood of any trans am. It just completes the car.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
v6 pony cars suck.
I completey disagree. My '96 Camaro with the 3.8 Series II V6 5-speed manual has about 225 hp after the mods I did and I still get killer gas milage. When I fled Houston last summer from Hurrican Rita I drove it out to El Paso and still averaged 33 - 35 mpg. Bash V6's all you want, I really like mine.
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When u get a camaro or mustang the gas mileage is the last thing u should be lookin at(even though now its goin nuts). If u want to save gas these type of cars are the last thing u should be lookin at. Look at the new mustang, its a 4 liter v6, thats too big for a v6. For that they should give me the 4.6(im not a ford guy but i miss that 302). At least in the 90s there was a size difference now the 6s are getting to big. I wonder wat the difference in manufactureing cost is between the 4.0 v6 and the 4.6 v8 would be.
diablo im pretty sure if u had a choice u rather have a lt1 in that camaro. I noe guys with 6s and they save there money for an engine swap and dont even look to put mods.
I was watchin a clip from automobile mag on the camaro. The guy said that gm could prob offer a v8 for the price of the 6. :aok V8s for everyone.
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"I completey disagree. My '96 Camaro with the 3.8 Series II V6 5-speed manual has about 225 hp after the mods I did and I still get killer gas milage. When I fled Houston last summer from Hurrican Rita I drove it out to El Paso and still averaged 33 - 35 mpg. Bash V6's all you want, I really like mine."
It's also slower than my Roadmaster (which is a land whale if ever there was such a thing). If you want a practical car, why not buy something that has a real back seat and a useful trunk? A V-6 muscle car just seems like the worst of all worlds.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
It's also slower than my Roadmaster
You may test that assumption at your convenience...
It's not all about practicality.
I've always loved F-bodies.
I've had a '77 T/A that was highly modified and a '65 GTO that was even more radical.
I just don't feel the need to burn down my tires through 4 gears anymore.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
I completey disagree. My '96 Camaro with the 3.8 Series II V6 5-speed manual has about 225 hp after the mods I did and I still get killer gas milage. When I fled Houston last summer from Hurrican Rita I drove it out to El Paso and still averaged 33 - 35 mpg. Bash V6's all you want, I really like mine.
:huh
Wow, neat. My Dodge Dakota has you by 25 HP dead stock and after a tiny investment of about 400 bucks its got you by 50... its a truck. And if the V8 engine was in a car shaped like your Camero it would have probably beat your milage too..But even in a 4400 pound square truck it gets 20mpg. The Camero comes in about 70% of the weight and lower aerodynamic drag... I'm pretty sure that your rather large V6 could be better replaced with a small v8... But Chevy is way too stupid to offer one.
Chevy really only has one V8 engine... ONE... And that is just a 30 year old design brought into the modern age with overhead cams. If they would get with the program and make something TRULY new, people would come buy it. But there is no such thing as a sexy v6.
GM has tried to sell us on the 'hot' v6 since 1985... And it has never worked.
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Originally posted by Kurt
:huh
Wow, neat. My Dodge Dakota has you by 25 HP dead stock and after a tiny investment of about 400 bucks its got you by 50... its a truck. And if the V8 engine was in a car shaped like your Camero it would have probably beat your milage too..But even in a 4400 pound square truck it gets 20mpg. The Camero comes in about 70% of the weight and lower aerodynamic drag... I'm pretty sure that your rather large V6 could be better replaced with a small v8... But Chevy is way too stupid to offer one.
Chevy really only has one V8 engine... ONE... And that is just a 30 year old design brought into the modern age with overhead cams. If they would get with the program and make something TRULY new, people would come buy it. But there is no such thing as a sexy v6.
GM has tried to sell us on the 'hot' v6 since 1985... And it has never worked.
:huh :huh
So you think that by what a vehicle "is" determines what horsepower it "should" have. What insight. There are plenty more trucks that have more horsepower than my V6, whooop de doo. So what if Chevy only has "one" V8, does having 5 mean it's better in some way? Oh, love the "brought into the modern age" comment. Both basic designs are over 100 years old even though the "cam in block" design did come out first. Ford's first modular 4.6 SOHC V8 produced a whopping 215 bhp. I like how classic designs that are upgraded which make them competely competive are still derided as not being an equal to a newer design simply due to the fact that it isn't "new". No one said anything about a V6 being sexy, hell no. Those Buick Grand Nationals and Trans Am GTA pace cars sure were POS's according to your logic.
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A v6 muscle car really doesnt serve a purpose. Its like a b52 filled with water ballons instead of bombs, u look big and powerful but when its time to drop ur not hurtin nobody. If u just gonna cruze a four door really seems better then a pretend muscle car. U put mods on it showin that u want some type of performance. A stock lt1 fast enuff wit out mods. U had 400 cid and a 389cid in ur other cars:aok i dont understand why u would try to mod a v6. If thats what u like go for it but i think a moded a v6 is a waste of time.
The 1980 turbo trans am was a 4.9 v8 but i think the 80s pace car was the grand national motor. In the 80s they didnt noe how to make horse:lol , look at the 92 5.7 tpi and the 93 5.7 lt1. We started gettin horse power back in the 90s, those emissions killed our cars for a while. But the horse is here now and i hope it stays.
There aint nothin wrong with my small block and over the years its just getting better. The new ls7 has 500 pluse horse and gets mileage like the ls2 with that system that lets u cruze on 4 cyclinders and when its time to bogie rock on all 8. Thats a BIG step. In the 60's 500 horse would eat 7 miles a gallon or worst. Then the thing can run on either gasoline or ethanol. These arent no old designs, this is new tech. I didnt see any i roc camaros runing 400 horse and doin 25 miles or better on gas. The small block chevy has been out for i think over 50 years. They still work on the same principle but when u got down to it the engines now are alot more advanced. Ford has been doin the 289cid engine since the begining of time, there aint nothin wrong with it(i rather see the 302cid come back but o well). The 289 got 300 horse. I dont even now what dodge got, all i noe is that they think that they can make anything sell by writeing hemi on it.
There supposed to build the camaro(concept my bellybutton this is comin out) on the zeta platform. The zeta chasis is supposed to be a joint deal with holden and chevy. Indenpendent front and rear susepension. I hope they make all of them v8s. Give me a 5.3(330horse) 6.0(400horse, but please more torque) and i would like to see them come out with somethin to race the cobra. Super charge the 6.0 or put a torquey ls7. I would like to see a 5.7 liter but i noe it aint goin to happen.
Frenchy im lookin for any trans am stuff but nothin. They have to kill the gto for a transam to come out. There supposed to redesign it so i guess then they can figure out whether the junk it or not. Unless they make the gto real sexy and give it crazy horse, like 500 plus pit it agaisnt the gt500 and only offer the car as a 500 horse option. Then u would have room to start think about a transam. So they they can offer the solstice, trans am, and higher up have the gto. I want to see all the muscle cars come out. Hondas are gay, that fast and furious movie filled those morons heads with these ideas that this 1. somethin liter is goin to beat me. Then when u rape them in the straight they think u have all types of mods on the car and dont want to believe that its stock.
If i misspell sorry, its 4am:lol
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I just read off road and track that there killin the gto by the summer. Now is the time to start ask for a trans am. They can build it on the zeta platform but i really want the camaro and transam to be 2 different cars. The camaro concept is the one they should go wit, i seen it at the show, it looks like a camaro should look and can stand on its on as a 08 instead of a remake of a 69 and hopefully i can get that to replace my 86(give her some time in the garage). The camaro takes after the first gen so maybe the trans am can take after the second gen. Give them the same engine and drive train but give them different bodys, and yes put that big bird on the hood :aok .
GM i think learned there lesson and will spend alot more time on design. A holden with gto stickers is still a holden no matter how much horse it got. Dealers across the country or goin to be stuck with those gto for a while.:lol
Forums like this dont go on noticed. I seen alot of different threads askin for a camaro since 03 04. They want information on how to make there products better and more desireable GM Dodge and ford can just go on the web and get it straight form the horses mouth.
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Brokeback Chevrolet (http://www.opeldealer.nl/new2/upload/1_1118658156.jpg)
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
:huh :huh
Those Buick Grand Nationals and Trans Am GTA pace cars sure were POS's according to your logic.
Show me one that is still on the road! They were garbage. I worked at Pontiac when those two were in the showrooms.. They were the hottest car around BUT, that was a low point in automotive history. Its easy to shine when you're surrounded by other garbage. Today's market is MUCH more interesting, and you can't keep throwing the same bone and expect the buyers to respond. This is one of the reasons GM is suffering so much right now - they refuse to move foward. Bolting more plastic body panels onto a car is NOT progress.
With regard to your remark about the basic technology being 100 years old... We all know that. Thanks for the lesson. But what I was talking about is that the Chevy 350 is essentially the same engine today that it was in 1968. Meanwhile every other manufacturer has moved on.
Granted, the chevy small block IS a classic and reliable engine. But, it simply isn't the best way to get things done anymore. And bolting on fuel injection, computers and new heads aren't going to move it forward.
Chevy V6's do make good power for what they are. But, when you look at the displacement of those V6's, they are huge. Its not like they are getting really great power for their displacement. And Historically speaking (no smack at your Camero personally) they don't last. I assume you'll post a remark about some guy you know who has one with 300k miles on it, and thats great. But for the vast majority, they don't last.
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There aint much u can change about the 350. Compare ur 67 350 sbc to a ls2. The ls2 is completey different. What type of new engine do u want, u what a chevy jet engine in the car? NO other company has any "new" type of engine, there all things that have been being upgraded for years. And dont say the mazda rotarty engine because those have been out since the sbc came out. I love my sbc, there getting better and more effieceint(please excuse my spelling im alittle tired). Yea u can get a 2.4 with 240 horse but the thing has no torque. Sbc has good horse and great torque. Look at the ls2 it makes more then 1 horse per cubic inch and thats with out any mods:D , and it has great torque(i think it should have more torque then horse but that just me). All that and ls2 can still cruze without eating that much gas. U cant compare a 67 sbc to a current gen sbc.
Chevy v6 aswell as ford v6s are a waste of metal. There to big to even consider being a v6. A 4 liter v6 ford........give me a break. Put v8s in all of them, ford can make v6s for the same price as the v8, the v6 is only .6 liters smaller. Ford should make the 4.6 the standard most engine and bring back the 302's back. I seen video from automobile mag and a gm insider said that they can build v8s for the same price as v6s, they can give u a 327 standard and then have the ls2 as the higher package. A v6 muscle car isnt desireable, the big three need to learn this, ever time i think about a camaro its a always a tire smokeing machine, v6s arent meant for this.
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The new Mustang V6 has almost as much power stock as the '94 V6 limited edition that Saleen put out with a Vortech blower on it- after some slight tweaking and a CAI, I pull about 215HP/210#s of torque, where the Saleen was rated at 220/250. Couple that with the GT suspension and Pirelli tires, almost even 50/50 weight distribution, and about 30MPG (it'll cruise at 80Mph turning 2,300RPM) and I'm quite happy with my V6 Pony Car. It handles like its on rails and accelerates better than my friends 95 Vette (I kid you not).
Plus the fact that I bought it over 3 months ago and still have the only V6 Pony Package sold in the area, but I see GTs everywhere. Theres 2 red ones, a black one and a yellow one just within about 20 miles of my house. Its nice to be different.
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have u guys seen the new zo6 vette. That thing is stupid fast. I saw it on top gear and on another site(check it out streetfire.net, nothin but races). The thing is faster then a lambo, i seen one with an intake and it beat the hell out of the ford gt. It might look like us americans might have somewhat of a supercar.
Treize its a 4 liter, ford should give u the 4.6 for the same price. If the v6 was 3.5 or smaller ok but its 4 liters.
Streetfire.net check it out..........alot of car race videos and news on the upcoming cars. The have alot of stuff about the new camaro.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
A v6 muscle car really doesnt serve a purpose.
I tried to convince my wife of this very concept when she bought her '05 convertible last July. She didn't want to wait (I waited patiently 3 months for my car from Germany!) THe woman wanted a pony car and wanted it NOW!
Well, now I have to tell you...for a V6, that engine is a peppy little bastige. Ford spend millions in R&D trying to reproduce the sound of both the small block and big block engines from the 60's I'm told...they nailed this V6, when you get on it, it sounds just like a 289 small block with duel exhausts.
Now, the wife doesn't care about "muscle", but the car's lines and the convertible really appeal to her, and that's what its about after all, if YOU like it, then you should buy it. Men can't enforce their opinion about muscle in cars on women, because they're from venus and we're from Mars.
Compared to european/asian model suspensions, the Ford Mustang SUCKS in both the stock GT and V6. Nothing corners like a BMW, Porsche and about 1/2 dozen other imports. Mustang is great to go in a straight line, fast. But I prefer cornering fast personally. This won't stop me from looking at a GT though, I have a friend that has an '06 GT that he wants to unload, it has every option except the upgraded wheels, and he may sell it to me for $25k since he's on a 07' Shelby Cobra waitlist.
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/8668097/147921683.jpg)
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I loved my 1979 Z-28 camaro. It was a great car, it was sad that the pontiac was 99% the same, seems sort of stupid for GM to have done that but I don't design or sell automobiles so i may be missing their motivation.
On a side note, v-6 muscle cars of the 80's, thinking specifically of the camaro & the firebird were great to pick up used with a smoker under the hood, we used to get them for as little as a couple hundred bucks. Then you dump a junkyard v-8 into it & go win 1/4 mile street races. The gear & tranny ratios were so low to develop enough torque out of the v-6's of the day that even a crappy 250 h.p. v-8 out of a junk yard wreck could win most of the time. It only took a few hours of work & you could have fun for a few weeks then sell it & start over.
It gave us something to do.