Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on May 09, 2006, 01:59:37 PM
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http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3799653
According to three documents on the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Relations Web site, the U.S. Border Patrol is to notify the Mexican government as to the location of Minutemen and other civilian border patrol groups when they participate in apprehending illegal immigrants -- and if and when violence is used against border crossers.
A U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman confirmed the notification process, describing it as a standard procedure meant to reassure the Mexican government that migrants' rights are being observed.
"This ... simply makes two basic statements -- that we will not allow any lawlessness of any type, and that if an alien is encountered by a Minuteman or arrested by the Minuteman, then we will allow that government to interview the person."
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I'm not mad at all. The Border Patrol is right.
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I see nothing to be mad about either. Seems to be an appropriate response, given the context.
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Why would the US government notify the Mexican government on the locations of a group that is acting within US borders? What is next, notifying Germany on the actions and locations of Martha Stewart?
Top it off, have the Minutemen been seen doing anything illegal or anything that violated the illegal immigrant's rights? If not, I don't see this as anything but harassment.
If you read it, they notify the Mexican government regardless if the law is broken. I'd have no problem if they acting beyond the means of a private citizen, but I haven't read of any accounts.
Besides, if the Mexican govenment is notified when the Minutemen 'participate', it will also help give the locations of Border Patrol as well.
In a word.. collusion.
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Originally posted by JBA
...reassure the Mexican government that migrants' rights are being observed...
that is what personally bothers me.
they are not "migrants" they are law breaking border hoppers. second they are not citizens of the US and therfore NOT guarenteed any rights in my book other than their OWN countries guarentee
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Why don't they build a wall like Isreal did?
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I kinda like the simple approach.
(http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/ssign5.jpg)
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Originally posted by Mustaine
that is what personally bothers me.
they are not "migrants" they are law breaking border hoppers. second they are not citizens of the US and therfore NOT guarenteed any rights in my book other than their OWN countries guarentee
Please feel free to point to the part in the Constitution that limits it to strictly lawful citizens.
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Sandy you'd make a great activist judge.
:aok
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As far as I have ever heard, the minutemen have not and do not arrest or detain anyone. They simply watch the border and report violations to the border patrol.
That's how I understod it anyway.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Please feel free to point to the part in the Constitution that limits it to strictly lawful citizens.
Oddly enough, I have to agree with Sandy here. While the US Constitution did not specify that rights were to be limited to citizens, the Declaration of Independence clearly indicates that basic rights are granted by God, not governments, and may not be taken away by governments.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
That being said, ther is NO "right" to be a resident of this country, nor is there a right NOT to be detained when caught breaking the duly instituted laws of the land.
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Originally posted by Shaky
Oddly enough, I have to agree with Sandy here. While the US Constitution did not specify that rights were to be limited to citizens, the Declaration of Independence clearly indicates that basic rights are granted by God, not governments, and may not be taken away by governments.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
That being said, ther is NO "right" to be a resident of this country, nor is there a right NOT to be detained when caught breaking the duly instituted laws of the land.
I would think that those who gave their consent to give power to the government would be citizens.
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Seems to me that if you notify the Mexican govt. the locals of border patrol then you are aiding and abetting criminal activity. If that info is used to brake the law. i.e. entering the country with out a visa..
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Originally posted by JBA
Seems to me that if you notify the Mexican govt. the locals of border patrol then you are aiding and abetting criminal activity. If that info is used to brake the law. i.e. entering the country with out a visa..
not brake, Break...
éste es los Estados Unidos; hablamos engles' aquí. :)
The Federal govt denies the Sara Carter report... say they are not doing it.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I would think that those who gave their consent to give power to the government would be citizens.
You would be correct, which is why I say that any prividges granted to US citizens by the Constitution are reserved for its citizens, not illegal aliens.
Keep in mind, however, that a founding principal of this country is that ALL men are endowed by basic rights, and no goverment can take them away. We are entitled to these rights not because we are Americans, but because we are MEN and these rights are part of being a free man.
And again, these inalienable rights do NOT include the right to illegally cross the border and live in this country.
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Originally posted by Mr Big
As far as I have ever heard, the minutemen have not and do not arrest or detain anyone. They simply watch the border and report violations to the border patrol.
That's how I understod it anyway.
" Texas Minutemen S.O.P. PDF Print E-mail
Written by Shannon McGauley
Sunday, 12 March 2006
You must follow all State and Federal Laws.
You must show due respect to all Federal, State, Local, and Texas Minutemen officials.
You must not display racism in all it's different forms. We encourage the USA flag and State flags with every member.
You must act in a reasonable and calm way in all situations. There may be aggressive agitators and Texas Minutemen will not respond to that. That is exactly what they want.
Texas Minutemen are required to have a higher standard of behavior in camp, in the brush, and in any nearby towns. We will not respond to remarks or gestures. This may cause you to grind your teeth but you will NOT respond.
You must show common decency to all.
In Texas, you can only carry a hand gun if you posses a Texas CHL or a CHL from a state that has reciprocal privileges with Texas, or when on private property. It stays concealed unless you fear for your life or the life of another volunteer.
See all state gun laws at http://www.packing.org/ to check reciprocal states.
Texas Minutemen is not a club or a militia; we are like minded Americans assembling along the Borders of the USA to do the job our lazy and corrupt politicians will not do. Presently, this website and email addresses are just a contact point for members.
If you are tired of unmanned US Borders then you are in the right place.
Anyone who believes in secure borders, non-violence and is not a Racist can associate with us, there is no fee, but we certainly need donations. Any willing person may serve.
Please assist us! Become a Volunteer!
It is very important that all who volunteer operate in a reasonable manner. We are only spotters. No more than a neighborhood watch on the border. Texas Minutemen in no way condones physical or verbal abuse.
Spotters will program their cell phone or call Texas Minutemen comm center with a spotting and comm will inform Border Patrol. Texas Minutemen do NOT in any way detain, threaten, or engage illegals. We spot them and call it in.
Border Patrol may ask us to move out of an area without some obvious reason and WE DO THAT IMMEDIATELY. No argument. We are there to help, NOT make their job more difficult.
All Texas Minutemen are charged with their own correct behavior and that of their neighbor. If you see your neighbor doing something against the SOP then it is your duty to let an official know immediately. We cannot let the poor behavior of one ruin the entire operation for all.
There will be media as there was before. You are welcome to speak with them if you are able to THINK before you speak.
Our intent is to back up the laws and Law Enforcement and never to violate basic human rights or break local, state or federal law.
Minutemen leave no trash. We pick up after ourselves at all times. Carry a garbage bag with you."
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Of course there are ways around this....................espec ialy if you have a signed doucument from a private land owner. :)
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-Mark Twain
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Originally posted by JBA
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3799653
According to three documents on the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Relations Web site, the U.S. Border Patrol is to notify the Mexican government as to the location of Minutemen and other civilian border patrol groups when they participate in apprehending illegal immigrants
The words "time frame" that are missing is the key. It`s after the fact and no given time frame.
Example of times past: Notification to a to a foreign government of activity in a certain area of their country..... (Laos, Cambodia, etc).........would read something like this if reading between the lines and cutting through the whitewash........"This is official notification of activity planned for certain segments of Air America inside your designated country boundaries in area blah blah blah on the dates of..................Ooooops.. ..two months previous." :D
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Please feel free to point to the part in the Constitution that limits it to strictly lawful citizens.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Those are the unalienable rights. They are given to every man by god. However, The declaration states why government exists, and that it is the duty of men to fix their own governments.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
The Declaration establishes WHY Governments are created. The constitution establishes HOW.
In the very first line of the constitution, it establishes WHO the word "People" refers to.
Christ, you'd think half the people here don't know how to read.
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Whatever happened to shoot first and ask questions later?:(
Seriously though, can't we just breed man eating scorpions along the border or some Pumas or something.
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Its none of Mexico's business what free Americans do legally inside the United States.
Its even less of our govts business to monitor Americans and report their legal actions to anyone, much less such a bad neighbor like Mexico.
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Originally posted by Delirium
What is next, notifying Germany on the actions and locations of Martha Stewart?[/B]
at lunch today, i read USA Today's spread on the NSA phone thing.
hap :noid
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Its none of Mexico's business what free Americans do legally inside the United States.
Its even less of our govts business to monitor Americans and report their legal actions to anyone, much less such a bad neighbor like Mexico.
Have you ever heard about border zone?
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Originally posted by dmf
Why don't they build a wall like Isreal did?
DMF...Israel is fascist, evil and dictatorial. They are true murderers allowed to run free.....we don't wanna be like them, do we?
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Originally posted by Sandman
Please feel free to point to the part in the Constitution that limits it to strictly lawful citizens.
Oh come on now. The freedoms guaranteed by the constitution are REGULARLY denied to those who break the law.
EDIT: Here's my anaolgy to what happened...
It is like the DEA calling up a Columbian cartel to tell them where the local neighborhood watch will be this Saturday night.
You have a government law enforcement group who is informing a foreign government (which is actively involved in breaking US laws) where a group of law abiding citizens are going to be trying to help said LEA do their job...sheesh.
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Originally posted by AZDiablo
DMF...Israel is fascist, evil and dictatorial. They are true murderers allowed to run free.....we don't wanna be like them, do we?
Arent Israel start as illegal immigrants who use terror attacks to establish they own country?
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Originally posted by ramzey
Arent Israel start as illegal immigrants who use terror attacks to establish they own country?
You are absolutely right....and they condinue to do so daily. Did you know Israel shells various areas (ie. Gaza) daily, at least 15-25 times a day? But we only hear what our government feels we should hear. I hope Hamas can enlist the aid of the Arab nations, cuz they're gonna need it to stop the tyranny and hate. Besides....this is no different then what England did to Ireland during the potato "famine". There was no famine...Queen Victoria (or whoever the hell she was at the time) stole Ireland's land, forced humongous rent and stole almost all their food by gunpoint. No different. Now we have the wonderful media to thank for changing perception that Israel is simply "defending it's borders". Whatever...
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Originally posted by AZDiablo
Besides....this is no different then what England did to Ireland during the potato "famine". There was no famine...Queen Victoria (or whoever the hell she was at the time) stole Ireland's land, forced humongous rent and stole almost all their food by gunpoint.
So it was who... Maybe Prince Albert who developed the "Phytophthora infestans" mold in the basement of Windsor Castle and set it loose in Ireland?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Those are the unalienable rights. They are given to every man by god. However, The declaration states why government exists, and that it is the duty of men to fix their own governments.
The Declaration establishes WHY Governments are created. The constitution establishes HOW.
In the very first line of the constitution, it establishes WHO the word "People" refers to.
Christ, you'd think half the people here don't know how to read.
If its teh duty of men to fix their own government, then when is sombody going to fix ours?
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Originally posted by AZDiablo
DMF...Israel is fascist, evil and dictatorial. They are true murderers allowed to run free.....we don't wanna be like them, do we?
Did I ever say I wanted to be like Isreal? no I didn't, I just believe that if your going to come to this country, then you should do it legaly. And when your here learn this language, don't complain and cry that this country should change its language to yours. That should apply to everybody, not just mexicans.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So it was who... Maybe Prince Albert who developed the "Phytophthora infestans" mold in the basement of Windsor Castle and set it loose in Ireland?
If you read your history you'd know why the Irish were forced to grow potatoes in the first place. The fertile lands in the east were stolen by the English, and most were forced to move to the west coast of Ireland, where very little would grow. The potato was introduced because it would grow where nothing else would. The people were forced into a terrible diet as most of the other foods were sent to England "by request of the Queen (with warships and soldiers)". It was just a domino effect....basically the truth is England is ultimately responsible for over 500,000 deaths as a direct result of purposely starving the Irish and forcing them to rely on potatoes alone as the staple in their diet. This whole fiasco also allowed over 500,000 good Irish people to emmigrate to the US where they helped shape our country to what it is today. So....read a little more and watch less television.....heehee
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So the Irish were forced to grow potatos, the diet was then heavily dependant upon potatos, then the potato fungus killed the potatos, but ...
Originally posted by AZDiablo
...There was no famine...
Somehow these are contradictory.
Many famines have political underpinnings. The famine that engulfed Ukraine, the northern Caucasus, and the lower Volga River area in 1932-1933 (sorry Boroda) was the result of Joseph Stalin's policy of forced collectivization. The death toll there has been estimated in the millions. Perhaps a completely politically caused famine, but still a famine none the less.
Perhaps you should read more.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So the Irish were forced to grow potatos, the diet was then heavily dependant upon potatos, then the potato fungus killed the potatos, but ...
Somehow these are contradictory.
Many famines have political underpinnings. The famine that engulfed Ukraine, the northern Caucasus, and the lower Volga River area in 1932-1933 (sorry Boroda) was the result of Joseph Stalin's policy of forced collectivization. The death toll there has been estimated in the millions. Perhaps a completely politically caused famine, but still a famine none the less.
Perhaps you should read more.
You're starting to sound redundent (sp?). Your comments prove my point exactly. I just don't see the point in shifting perception away from the reality of catastrophies like these (Ireland....Israel). Politically motivated horrors like these just strike a cord in me. I feel retribution, retaliation and careful "creative" diplomacy are valid reactions.
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Originally posted by AZDiablo
You're starting to sound redundent (sp?). Your comments prove my point exactly. I just don't see the point in shifting perception away from the reality of catastrophies like these (Ireland....Israel). Politically motivated horrors like these just strike a cord in me. I feel retribution, retaliation and careful "creative" diplomacy are valid reactions.
You said that he potato famine didn't happen, so you were wrong and Holden is correct.
Nice try though.
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diablo is correct... there was no "famine" if they would not have had to ship their food to england they would not be in "famine". There was a potato blight that killed the only food the english allowed them to have.
either way.... most countries have more than enough reason to hate the brits. they brought death and missery and loss of freedom everywhere they went.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
either way.... most countries have more than enough reason to hate the brits. they brought death and missery and loss of freedom everywhere they went.
lazs
Well, there was that America thing
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Originally posted by dmf
If its teh duty of men to fix their own government, then when is sombody going to fix ours?
I'll fix it. But I'm waiting for the catalyst. Within 10 years, the government will try to heavily restrict guns. That's the catalyst. If I do anything before this, I won't have any support and would just be seen as a whacko murderer.
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they restrict guns every day. been doing it for years. When is it too much?
for me... so long as their are free states for me to move to... I can ignore the feds and the blues. everyone is different. I don't think that so long as there are 80-90 million gun owners in the country that any government is gonna be dumb enough to go door to door trying to confiscate em...
Nope.. it will be like the examples of england and other socialist countries gun control.... slow and sneaky till their is a very tiny gun culture and then slam that small group and slam em hard.
The best thing any of us can do is.... go buy another gun... join the NRA.... take someone who never owned a gun or hates guns out shooting.
lazs