Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Wasara on May 13, 2006, 10:20:32 AM

Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on May 13, 2006, 10:20:32 AM
I know that I'm talking about one of the icons of airwarfare WWII.Seems that my tactics with this beauty is totally wrong.Even with boom&zoom I can't get any scores.I know it has powerful R&R Merlin but all the same I have not progressed with it in H2H.

Any advices?
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: toon on May 13, 2006, 11:25:26 AM
yes,contact one of the trainers.they are an incredible resource and they are always happy to help.you can either e-mail them and set up an appointment or just show up in the T.A. brick31
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: toon on May 13, 2006, 11:27:02 AM
also, there are some finns in the game and they are GOOD. if you can get hold ogf one of them you'd be golden.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: GunnerCAF on May 13, 2006, 11:31:36 AM
The P51 was an icon of the war.  It's strengths are long range, high altitude, it's relatively fast, it turns well, good ammo load, can carry a good bomb load.  It may not be the best at anything, but it is good at just about everything.  In the MA, most the fights are low and you don't have to travel far for a fight.  There are other planes that are much better for the fights in the MA.

The P51 is a fun plane to fly.  Make sure you have time to gain some altitude (10K+).  The plane does not have good guns for B&Z (no cannons).  Try energy fighting.  Energy fighting is is not B&Z.  Your shots should be tracking shots from your enemys rear.  You need to keep your fire on one point for a few seconds to do damage.  Keep your speed high, don't turn tight with your enemy, break off and do a low energy (low G) turn  and engage again.

If you get slow, use one notch of flaps and turn fight.  If your enemy has no friends around, our you have a good wingman, you may get a kill and exit the area without being killed :)

Gunner
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Panzzer on May 13, 2006, 05:49:03 PM
Hello, Wasara!

If everything goes as planned, you should soon see a "Finnish Squads" forum in here (at the bottom of this board). And welcome to AH. :)
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: DamnedRen on May 14, 2006, 11:42:36 AM
Great plane~! Does everythng well. Has a few vices as flws:

A little slow to accelerate.
The .50 cal's a somewhat neutered in AH2 so you need to unload prior to shooting then hold the trigger for a full second for the kill.

Other than that is does just about everything you could possible want from a plane.

Great ceiling
Great range
Great maneuverability
Great speed once you get her going
Excellent handling at just about all speeds

Hope this helps. :)
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: GunnerCAF on May 14, 2006, 12:03:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DamnedRen
...
The .50 cal's a somewhat neutered in AH2 so you need to unload prior to shooting then hold the trigger for a full second for the kill.

...


Ren,

What do you mean by "unload prior to shooting"?  

Thanks,

Gunner
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Murdr on May 14, 2006, 12:12:12 PM
Unload G's.  Set up the shot so that you are pulling as little G forces as possible when you pull the trigger.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: DamnedRen on May 14, 2006, 12:51:20 PM
As Murdr followed up, anytime you pull any G's you are "loading up". When you do your bullets continually change impact point. If you "unload"all stick pressure, the majority of rounds will impact into a small area.
It's very easy to see how it works. Just get a little low and point yer nose at the water. Roll a little and pull and fire. You will see the rounds spread out as they follow the nose around. Now dive at the water and let go of the stick but just hold the trigger for a second and watch the rounds impact in approximately the same spot. Note: if you see rounds impacting in a spread it's probably the convergence you have your guns set at. As you close the distance to your convergence setting you'll see the unloaded rounds hit the same spot. There is a reason that gunsights had all kinds of little lines or circle imposed on them. One is you could set an average wing span in the gunsight circle to match the width of an average fighter plane at a given distance (guns convergence). When the guy fit inside of your circle he was in range for a solid shot. We have it easier as we can see the range to the target. German Aces used to "fill their windscreen" with the enemy plane and then they considered that was close enough. A simple dot (pipper) on a gunsight was not the prefered sight.

Unloading is not only used for shooting but it releases pressure to the control surfaces. Anytime you pull, push, roll or yaw you impart some drag on the plane and effect it's airspeed. Even in a dive. If you are unloaded the plane will speed up a little faster than if you're input stick pressure to the control surfaces. If you are in a fight and decide it's  time to bug for whatever reason if you can get the other into a hard break and as he pulls, you unload you will accelerate away from him.

Back to unloaded shots. The secret to the unloaded shot is you first go for a saddle up. Don't be thinking about the quick, snap shot. Think about a good saddle up. When you get there and own the fight then fly into the unloaded shot and take it. Most folks put everything into a snap shot and sometimes it works. Sometimes not. If you saddle up and own the guy you will get an unloaded shot.

Hope this helps
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: GunnerCAF on May 14, 2006, 04:30:15 PM
Murdr, Ren, Thanks!

Ren, great stuff on unloading.

Gunner
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on May 15, 2006, 01:47:33 AM
Thanks Coba,Gunner,Panzzer,Ren and Murdr for the great stuff!

I must digest that gunnery thing for a while.

I will check "Finnish Squads" also.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: TexMurphy on May 15, 2006, 05:55:11 AM
Hey Wasara and welcome to AH.

As said BnZ isnt really the ultimate style for the Pony due to the lack of cannons. That said the Pony is still a good BnZer if you get your gunnery down and can land extended bursts on your target.

But what I like in Ponies is to fly a mix of energy fighting and BnZ. Basicly I start out with a few BnZ passes inorder to read how my target reacts to my passes. Once I see his defensive pattern I put the preasure on him. I make my passes more and more frequent till it turns into more of a energy fight then a BnZ style attack.

Basicly I make sure he cant work his energy back after my pass. I slowly drain his E while constantly managing my own. My own E will drop as well since I make more frequent passes, key thing is to use the vertical more then he does. As long as that is done my E will always be higher then his.

Eventually I will get a good lead shot or deflection shot on him.

Another thing Ponies are really good at is "towing enemies out of the fight". Personally I hate crowded fights. I like it much better when I can work my enemy alone.

In the pony you can get someones attention and then slowly separate him. Important thing is to not make the enemy think your fleeing. Because if he thinks your fleeing he wount follow.

If your starting out with a BnZ attack you can make sure to "push" him out of the fight area by always making your attacks so that you are between him and the big fight. This will force him to extend away from the fight.

If your starting out co-alt then you can always drag him out and as soon as he starts loosing interest you attack. Then drag him out a bit further. Rince and repeat till you are away from the fight.

Now you can go into a full feathered E fight with him without caring about the other enemies.

Finally I do prefer the B pony over the D pony. Sure it has less guns and lacks a few mph in the top speed but it manouvers much better imho and is a more versile fighter.

Tex
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on May 18, 2006, 07:48:05 AM
Thanks and thanks for the response,Tex!It seems I must try that B-version too.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: HeLLcAt on May 19, 2006, 03:12:55 PM
I used to train back in the day, I still got it and would love to help if you'd like. Drop me an email, lmpbzktsk82004@hotmail.com. Thank you.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on May 22, 2006, 10:27:49 AM
Hello Hellcat!

How this training goes?In Main Arena?
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Schism on May 22, 2006, 12:35:57 PM
Man, I read all the post and it is still all Greek to me.  I have been playing for over a year and I still bite at dog fighting.  I guess I need to get a student loan and go to one of the local flight schools so I can understand what you guys are talking about and learn the basics of flying, LOL.  GV’s, guns, bombers, and dive bombing I rock at, but my dog fighting skills are scary.  Anyway, all those that are still learning appreciate you guys taking the time to give out the info.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: DamnedRen on May 22, 2006, 01:28:50 PM
Schism,

There are a lot of us trainers in the Training Arena (TA). All ya gotta do is ask us and we'd be happy to take you from "wheels in the well" up to the scary dogfighting stuff. Get up and fly with us and we can evaluate where you are currently and help you move along.

Reading is a great help but nothing beats being able to see and experience what you see on the discussion boards.

Hope this helps.
Title: Hey ren?
Post by: red26 on May 22, 2006, 03:39:29 PM
Will you be in the TA this tuesday or about the two days there after??
I would love to join your plane or you join mine and show me some dog fighting skills I kinda got the hit and run down but staing on a pilots tail I cant do for some reason can you help me this week???
Title: Re: Hey ren?
Post by: DamnedRen on May 22, 2006, 04:32:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by red26
Will you be in the TA this tuesday or about the two days there after??
I would love to join your plane or you join mine and show me some dog fighting skills I kinda got the hit and run down but staing on a pilots tail I cant do for some reason can you help me this week???


I'm a little under the weather since yesterday and cant seem to sit for more than 1/2 hour. I can't tell if its a nasty cold or the flu coming on.

Hence, I won't be able to get up tomorrow but i should be feeling better and can meet you Thursday morning or thru the whole 4 day weekend  anytime.

If that works for you just let me know when you'd like to meet.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Spatula on May 22, 2006, 05:15:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TexMurphy

...
Another thing Ponies are really good at is "towing enemies out of the fight". Personally I hate crowded fights. I like it much better when I can work my enemy alone.

In the pony you can get someones attention and then slowly separate him. Important thing is to not make the enemy think your fleeing. Because if he thinks your fleeing he wount follow.

If your starting out with a BnZ attack you can make sure to "push" him out of the fight area by always making your attacks so that you are between him and the big fight. This will force him to extend away from the fight.

If your starting out co-alt then you can always drag him out and as soon as he starts loosing interest you attack. Then drag him out a bit further. Rince and repeat till you are away from the fight.

Now you can go into a full feathered E fight with him without caring about the other enemies.

...


Damnit, Tex, thats a favourite trick of mine, now you spilling all the mad seekritz... shoosh you!
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: toon on May 23, 2006, 08:59:27 AM
getting alot better at maintaining E.been messin with 51-B.i'll be lookin for you ren.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: red26 on May 23, 2006, 04:12:17 PM
I will be in the TA most of the night after 8 or 9 central is there any one that can teach me how to dog fight with the 51D tonight??? just let me know and I will be there.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on June 06, 2006, 09:41:08 AM
I made first two scores with P-51D today.The other of two was Spit.Both where B&Z and headons while maintaining 400 mph and making immelman and getting above enemy.Not so proud,and not so healthy tactics...or was it?Must add I'm using taped mouse.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: toon on June 06, 2006, 01:06:02 PM
wasara..2 kills with taped mouse thats absolutely awesome.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on June 06, 2006, 02:29:37 PM
Thanks Coba!

I'm considering to buy joystick after all,but it will take some time,gotta spare some money.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: SAS_KID on June 06, 2006, 09:23:15 PM
well are you sure you it was a head on? Or a high front quarter shot. If the person was able to shoot back at you or you hit him people will call it a HO. I myself hate getting PM'd hoer when they are pulling up to me and i come down neg G and blast as they pull in front of me. They can see me shoot at them when looking forward but can't get a shot as i destroy there engine or even kill the pilot. I myself belive this is a high quarter shot.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Kermit de frog on June 07, 2006, 01:43:06 AM
Why is unloading the preferred way of shooting?

If my target is moving, I like to keep "loading" on my wings.  Helps keep more bullets in 1 spot on my moving target.  If I want to put a wall of bullets in front of my target, then I may "unload" because thats what you have to do.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on June 07, 2006, 11:58:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SAS_KID
well are you sure you it was a head on? Or a high front quarter shot. If the person was able to shoot back at you or you hit him people will call it a HO. I myself hate getting PM'd hoer when they are pulling up to me and i come down neg G and blast as they pull in front of me. They can see me shoot at them when looking forward but can't get a shot as i destroy there engine or even kill the pilot. I myself belive this is a high quarter shot.


I have much speed and I saw them firing but they were so late that I have almost passed by them when they started to fire.I had to made three or four passes.It can be that my shots hit on the upper side of wings,canopy or motor-in other words those were high quarter shots.
Title: Re: P-51D Mustang
Post by: x0847Marine on June 07, 2006, 04:33:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wasara
I know that I'm talking about one of the icons of airwarfare WWII.Seems that my tactics with this beauty is totally wrong.Even with boom&zoom I can't get any scores.I know it has powerful R&R Merlin but all the same I have not progressed with it in H2H.

Any advices?


To better maintain E... when climbing out, look for the Accel guage.. lets say you want to maintain 300 MPH even as you climb out, push your stick forward to "0".. and you pretty much stay at 300 MPH as you climb and level out
(http://members.dslextreme.com/users/fanofhockey/images/51b.jpg)

Work great (if) your force feedback is working (mines isnt waiting on a fix), you can get a feel for where the 0 is and wont even need to look. Practice enough and you can look behind you the whole time while screaming up out of a dive.

Dont worry about chopping throttle as you dive, if you start to compress use the trim to smooth out of it. I personally like to appear as if I'm screaming in on thier 6 at mac 1, they figure I'll be easy to dodge at that speed, which is accurate... but while OMW down, at about 1k out, I chopped my gas and hit 1 flap and I'm slowing rapidly... but still maintaing my speed relative to what they are in (slow more for a Hurri, less for an LA7 / 109) once they commit to a move I can sometimes pull in beind tem using a combo chop trrottle / flap(s) to turn with em, or go full throttle + wep, no flap, pull up into a high yoyo, invert keeping an eye on em, and jump on em when they are at thier slowest.

Trial and error man is all it is really, the more you can traverse the sky knowing your Energey state while looking around, the easier it gets. IMO force feedback is a must, my K/D improved bigtime with it... but thats just me, others migt not think so.

Have patience young grasshopper, go for "the shot", not just "a shot", with 50's you had better dial in your convergence and sights... try using ".target xxx", xxx being the number of yards away the target will be, i.e .target 500.. I know exactly wich part of my sight to put where wen I need to shoot.

Also with bombers, no need to try and blow them up, you'll waste all your ammo, concentrate on 1 engine.. once it catches fire, it will burn him down.. while dudes is on fire, climb out and figure out which engine on which buff your gonna hit next.

BTW I suck, so feel free to ignore this... just my observations.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on June 08, 2006, 08:13:32 AM
Thanks a lot,Marine!

Again one excellent response!
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: bkbandit on June 12, 2006, 03:44:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DamnedRen
Great plane~! Does everythng well. Has a few vices as flws:


The .50 cal's a somewhat neutered in AH2 so you need to unload prior to shooting then hold the trigger for a full second for the kill.


Hope this helps. :)


Yes, someone finally said it, i have been saying the guns r alittle weak for a while and everybody thinks im crazy.

I fly the f4u 90% of the time but certain situations i just need to get in the 51d.  The thing i love about it is most of the time u will be either faster or turn better then the nme. And the high speed turning is excellent. A high speed mustang is hard to follow, i have made spits break tryin to follow me in high g turns. And the thing is feakin fast in the dive. And the views r great. u just cant get slow with it, u lose speed u better off just punchin out early because ur not goin to last long.  Just take ur time learning it, dont get fustrated just try to learn from ur mistakes. 51d prob the fastest unperked plane out there(i dont count the jug because u have to get to 30k to see that speed, in ah thats preety much space) so stay fast and ull be ok.
Title: Re: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Platano on June 12, 2006, 04:08:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wasara
I know that I'm talking about one of the icons of airwarfare WWII.Seems that my tactics with this beauty is totally wrong.Even with boom&zoom I can't get any scores.I know it has powerful R&R Merlin but all the same I have not progressed with it in H2H.

Any advices?



Use a 109 :aok
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: DamnedRen on June 12, 2006, 09:41:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bkbandit
Yes, someone finally said it, i have been saying the guns r alittle weak for a while and everybody thinks im crazy.

I fly the f4u 90% of the time but certain situations i just need to get in the 51d.  The thing i love about it is most of the time u will be either faster or turn better then the nme. And the high speed turning is excellent. A high speed mustang is hard to follow, i have made spits break tryin to follow me in high g turns. And the thing is feakin fast in the dive. And the views r great. u just cant get slow with it, u lose speed u better off just punchin out early because ur not goin to last long.  Just take ur time learning it, dont get fustrated just try to learn from ur mistakes. 51d prob the fastest unperked plane out there(i dont count the jug because u have to get to 30k to see that speed, in ah thats preety much space) so stay fast and ull be ok.


Actually, it's more of an evolution of the game.
For those, who have not been around since AH the guns of the P51 are what they are and are fine.
For those who flew during some of the earlier years, they have changed dramatically. Many of the old folks complained to no avail. It is what it is so those who continue with the game have learned to live with it or fly other planes.

The good news is the Pony is still a nice flying plane and/or you have many other planes to chose from. Why do you think so many people fly around in La7's? :)

Hope this explains it a bit more.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: toon on June 12, 2006, 11:22:43 AM
ren,where you been? brick
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: DamnedRen on June 12, 2006, 11:31:16 AM
Normally been up in the TA after 4pm-7 to 8pm days....

You? :)
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: toon on June 13, 2006, 08:16:09 AM
i contacted my internet provider and found myproblem, they are going to fix it on thur. but i start every session in the t.a. haven't seen you in a while was hoping everything ok. see you in there .
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: DamnedRen on June 13, 2006, 09:04:24 AM
Told ya it was yer provider. :) Hope they get it up and running for ya.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: HeLLcAt on June 13, 2006, 11:18:58 AM
Wasara I shot you an email about training if you're still interested.
Title: P-51D Mustang
Post by: Wasara on June 13, 2006, 12:37:22 PM
I got that,Brad!

And thanks to you others guys too.Seems this thread'll live on.