Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shamus on May 17, 2006, 12:50:37 PM
-
Anyone else find this chilling, is a free press out dated in this country now?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/05/fbi_acknowledge.html
shamus
-
"It used to be very hard and complicated to do this, but it no longer is in the Bush administration," said a senior federal official.
Good thing a SENIOR FEDERAL OFFICIAL said it. It's not like we need to name who actually said it, because it is a SENIOR FEDERAL OFFICIAL.
-
Chilling?!
What is chilling is having people leak information that deals with national security to reporters without having to worry about being arrested for being the traitors that they are.
Chilling is having the realization that these very same people could have vital information that could hurt millions of people if they decide to "leak" it to someone else.
Sorry but the Feds tracking phone numbers in the name of security is not "Chilling".
-
Originally posted by Mighty1
Chilling?!
What is chilling is having people leak information that deals with national security to reporters without having to worry about being arrested for being the traitors that they are.
Chilling is having the realization that these very same people could have vital information that could hurt millions of people if they decide to "leak" it to someone else.
Sorry but the Feds tracking phone numbers in the name of security is not "Chilling".
Did they say anything about "national security"?
As we are finding out with this administration, you can classify anything, as they are doing with things that have been in the public domain for years.
It is nothing more than a way stiffle people from leaking wrongdoing, Hillary would have loved it during Bill's administration, so would Nixon and Regan.
And by the way, your ignorance is showing, give me nothing but your phone records for a year, and Iwill put together an investigation that will know everything about you.
shamus
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Good thing a SENIOR FEDERAL OFFICIAL said it. It's not like we need to name who actually said it, because it is a SENIOR FEDERAL OFFICIAL.
Is that you way of saying this whole thing is a fabrication?
shamus
-
Any federal agency is welcome to all my phone records. I've nothing to hide.
That is all.
-
Ripsnort wrote:
I've nothing to hide.
Please back this up with action. Post your Social Security Number, Bank Account Numbers, PIN codes, email and login passwords and your AH password.
Copies of your last 5 federal tax returns could be interesting too.
-
Originally posted by Mighty1
Chilling?!
What is chilling is having people leak information that deals with national security to reporters without having to worry about being arrested for being the traitors that they are.
Chilling is having the realization that these very same people could have vital information that could hurt millions of people if they decide to "leak" it to someone else.
Sorry but the Feds tracking phone numbers in the name of security is not "Chilling".
You know... if people are indeed leaking classified information, it is a criminal act subject to severe penalties.
I suspect that the leaks aren't really leaks, but educated guesses and speculation.
-
Originally posted by Shamus
Did they say anything about "national security"?
As we are finding out with this administration, you can classify anything, as they are doing with things that have been in the public domain for years.
It is nothing more than a way stiffle people from leaking wrongdoing, Hillary would have loved it during Bill's administration, so would Nixon and Regan.
And by the way, your ignorance is showing, give me nothing but your phone records for a year, and Iwill put together an investigation that will know everything about you.
shamus
What a load of BS!!
They want to know who is leaking classified information and you think that is wrong and you call me ignorant?!
I don't care who is doing it it is wrong! And if the press won't tell their source our govt has not only the right but the responsibility to find out who it was. If that means they look at phone records the so be it.
BTW I haven't seen one leak that outed the govt doing ANYTHING wrong.
-
Pentagon Papers. Deep Throat.
Yes, if you leak defense critical info, off to court you should go.
Frankly, if it's info that demonstrates violation by offficals and the govenment of the rights of americans, then the leaker is obligated by loyalty to the constitution of the united states to leak.. shriek if necessary.
...and let the court decide if he's liable to serve time.
-
Originally posted by Mighty1
What a load of BS!!
They want to know who is leaking classified information and you think that is wrong and you call me ignorant?!
I don't care who is doing it it is wrong! And if the press won't tell their source our govt has not only the right but the responsibility to find out who it was. If that means they look at phone records the so be it.
BTW I haven't seen one leak that outed the govt doing ANYTHING wrong.
Well you and I disagree, I see all kinds of violations of the Bill of Rights and the Attorney General bold face lying before Congress about the NSA thing, you find it fine I dont.
Bush had taken a page out of Nixons book "if the President does it, it's not illegal"
Classify all wrongdoing and if your caught fry the leaker, take away the press's ability to protect a source.
Use signing statements to put Congress and the Supreme Court on notice that you reserve the right to ignore the laws that you sign, yes I call you ignorant.
shamus
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Any federal agency is welcome to all my phone records. I've nothing to hide.
That is all.
I'm sure that there are many folks who would find it fine for any Federeal agency to film them banging their wives, does that mean you should be subjected to that?
shamus
-
Originally posted by Shamus
I'm sure that there are many folks who would find it fine for any Federeal agency to film them banging their wives, does that mean you should be subjected to that?
shamus
Video tape and phone conversations to people outside this country are like apples and oranges, but nice stretch!
-
it is indeed chilling. there is no justification for the further erosion of our civil rights. The safety and security of any number of lives, even those of my children and grandchildren cannot be used for the justification of further governmental intrusion into the lives of American citizens. Governments are by their very nature evil. they need to be curbed. our founding fathers understood this. some of you "men" should as well. "The cost of liberty is eternal vigilence" that which we are supposed to be keeping in check are those who govern us. In America the federal government is out of control, it has grown too large and intrusive, the sad thing is that it has occurred with the consent of the governed.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Video tape and phone conversations to people outside this country are like apples and oranges, but nice stretch!
Check again, it has been updated, domestic calls as well.
That aside, you seem to be stating that if its ok with you its ok for everyone.
shamus
-
Originally posted by Shamus
Check again, it has been updated, domestic calls as well.
That aside, you seem to be stating that if its ok with you its ok for everyone.
shamus
I'm saying that if we are to prevent another 9/11 or something worse at the nuclear scale, maybe its okay for alittle domestic ease-dropping. No terrorist attacks in the U.S. in over 4 years so far..something is working.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm saying that if we are to prevent another 9/11 or something worse at the nuclear scale, maybe its okay for alittle domestic ease-dropping. No terrorist attacks in the U.S. in over 4 years so far..something is working.
I've got a bottle of elephant repellant on my desk. It works great.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
I've got a bottle of elephant repellant on my desk. It works great.
I'm certain its not BS repellent, or you'd not be around your desk at all! ;)
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm saying that if we are to prevent another 9/11 or something worse at the nuclear scale, maybe its okay for alittle domestic ease-dropping. No terrorist attacks in the U.S. in over 4 years so far..something is working.
We had none between 93 and 01, I guess Bush should do what Clinton did, that was 8 years.
shamus
this is getting silly :)
-
if you are willing to surrender your rights to fight terrorisim, then the terrorists have won.
now, as of this day, our borders are not secure. my phone is tapped. our ports are seives. we have spent 50 billion dollars on homeland security, watched the governement trample our civil rights..
and we are NO safer than we were prior to 9/11.
50 billion... rights trampled... costs for all forms of transportation up... access for citizens to air transportation is a joke; an embarassment. Granny's with wands up their skirts while Omar is ignored.
Rip, if yer willing to cave to the government, then you become a terrorist successs poster boy.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
if you are willing to surrender your rights to fight terrorisim, then the terrorists have won.
now, as of this day, our borders are not secure. my phone is tapped. our ports are seives. we have spent 50 billion dollars on homeland security, watched the governement trample our civil rights..
and we are NO safer than we were prior to 9/11.
50 billion... rights trampled... costs for all forms of transportation up... access for citizens to air transportation is a joke; an embarassment. Granny's with wands up their skirts while Omar is ignored.
Rip, if yer willing to cave to the government, then you become a terrorist successs poster boy.
As opposed to do nothing, hide in our closets from the bad guys? I think if we were to do nothing as you suggest, then the terrorists have won.
-
Get with it people! There's a war on!
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terra
You're either with us, or you're with the Terrans!
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm certain its not BS repellent, or you'd not be around your desk at all! ;)
Clinton had no domestic terrorist attacks for almost 8 years... I guess his policies were twice as good.
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
Clinton had no domestic terrorist attacks for almost 8 years... I guess his policies were twice as good.
He was the reason we were attacked. He did nothing, and had the opportunity to take out Bin Hiden (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/)...did nothing, and cost us 3000 lives.
I told you in 2000 that the Legacy of Bill would haunt us for years to come, this was proof.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
He was the reason we were attacked. He did nothing, and had the opportunity to take out Bin Hiden...did nothing, and cost 3000 lives.
Naw, it was George the first's fault for screwing up the first time in Iraq, just like the problem we are having with Iran right now is Carters fault.
shamus
-
This just in... Bin Laden is still loose.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
This just in... Bin Laden is still loose.
Ya think he might be alittle harder to get to now that he pulled the tigers tail? ;) Clinton screwed up. Now its up to Bush to clean up..which is almost impossible to do NOW!
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ya think he might be alittle harder to get to now that he pulled the tigers tail? ;) Clinton screwed up. Now its up to Bush to clean up..which is almost impossible to do NOW!
He can stay out of the limelight now, his mission succeded beyond his wildest dreams.
But thats right, we will hear, "we cant stop him till you give us more power" untill we win the war on terror, and we still have no definition on a "win" and we never will.
shamus
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
He was the reason we were attacked. He did nothing, and had the opportunity to take out Bin Hiden (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/)...did nothing, and cost us 3000 lives.
I told you in 2000 that the Legacy of Bill would haunt us for years to come, this was proof.
NEVAR FORGIT TEH KLINTNO!!! :mad:
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ya think he might be alittle harder to get to now that he pulled the tigers tail? ;) Clinton screwed up. Now its up to Bush to clean up..which is almost impossible to do NOW!
I guess you didn't get the memo on your current talking points...
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)
-
The thing with giving up civil liberties is the Government--all governments, really--is always happier to take them away than give them back.
Free press doesn't come without its own problems, though. Spanish-American war, anyone?
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
As opposed to do nothing, hide in our closets from the bad guys? I think if we were to do nothing as you suggest, then the terrorists have won.
CONTROL THE BORDERS. SECURE THE PORTS;. IT'S BEEN 5 FREAKIN YEARS;.. SOME OF US HAVE PARENTS THAT REMEMBER AMERICA WON WWII IN 4.
50 BILLION.. YOU THINK THEY HAVE THE SITUATION IN HAND? THAT YOU ARE SAFER??
BULLPUCKEY!
'WAR ON TERROR' MY FREAKIN ARSE!
IT'S A WAR ON AMERICANS, BEING ORCHESTRATED BY A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT USING SCARE TACTICS TO SERVE THE CORPORATE INTRESTS.. THE GUYS THAT SIGN YER FREAKIN CHECK, YOU MISERABLE SELL-OUT!
-
Ooo, Hang is pissed. I'm with him.
-
We won in four but it took two nukes.
Somehow I don't think that most in this thread will approve the use of nukes against anyone.
-
*idea!*
wee shall see!!
(see nuke vote thread)
-
Hangtime wrote;
IT'S A WAR ON AMERICANS, BEING ORCHESTRATED BY A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT USING SCARE TACTICS TO SERVE THE CORPORATE INTRESTS
Give that man a cigar.
-
Originally posted by Dale
IT'S A WAR ON AMERICANS, BEING ORCHESTRATED BY A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT USING SCARE TACTICS TO SERVE THE CORPORATE INTRESTS.. THE GUYS THAT SIGN YER FREAKIN CHECK, YOU MISERABLE SELL-OUT!
(http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_kothw1_1b.jpg)
-
The FBI filed "National Security Letters" to get phone records from ABC.
+
"National Security Letters" are only used in terrorism cases.
+
ABC is owned by Disney.
=
Disney supports terrorists.
-
the war on drugs is about 20 years old
the war on poverty is about twice that
the was on masturbation has been going on for centuries
the good news is that fewer people are poor or selling drugs because they're employed in the pr0n industry
-
Originally posted by Toad
We won in four but it took two nukes.
Somehow I don't think that most in this thread will approve the use of nukes against anyone.
Victory was achieved on the ETO without nukes.
-
If the govt was doing a traffic study at an intersection to determin traffic patters about how many cars made a left hand turn and how many went strait.....and there was a judical process to oversee this traffic study.....and there were no liscense plate numbers written down, just the types of cars and the direction they went.....I don't see how my civil rights were being violated.
Now if this study was classified by the executive branch for security reasons and somone leaked it then I think the leaker should face a court as well. This whole chicken little attitude by some is sickening to me, there is a process in place and a road map for usage, let the system work.
Just like free speech is not absolute, free press follows the same guidlines. You have to be responsible for what you say and print if it causes harm to others.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
now, as of this day, our borders are not secure. my phone is tapped. our ports are seives. we have spent 50 billion dollars on homeland security, watched the governement trample our civil rights..
Borders are not secure? I agree.
Your phone is tapped? You must be talking to terrorist then so stop.
Our ports are seives? Been that way for more than 20 years why the whine now?(oh yeah! I forgot that's the Democrat talking point)
Your rights trampled on? You still have the right to whine like a girl so grow up.
Some parents know WW2 was won in 4 years? I don't need Mom and Dad to tell me how it came out. Plus it's apples and oranges. In WW2 we had clear cut enemies while now we fight people who mingle with the crowd and come from countries we are not supposed to be at war with.
-
FBI Acknowledges: Journalists' Phone Records are Fair Game
May 16, 2006 12:25 PM
Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report:
The FBI acknowledged late Monday that it is increasingly seeking reporters' phone records in leak investigations.
"It used to be very hard and complicated to do this, but it no longer is in the Bush administration," said a senior federal official.
Shamus, it's plain awful. Chilling yes. To say it's Orwellian is not an exaggeration.
hap
-
Originally posted by Hap
FBI Acknowledges: Journalists' Phone Records are Fair Game
May 16, 2006 12:25 PM
Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report:
The FBI acknowledged late Monday that it is increasingly seeking reporters' phone records in leak investigations.
"It used to be very hard and complicated to do this, but it no longer is in the Bush administration," said a senior federal official.
Shamus, it's plain awful. Chilling yes. To say it's Orwellian is not an exaggeration.
hap
Your right!
The FBI actually trying to find out who is leaking classified info to the press is chilling and Orwellian!
:noid
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
Clinton had no domestic terrorist attacks for almost 8 years... I guess his policies were twice as good.
Revisionist history again?
-
Since we're talking about the administration and the press, here's a newspaper article. A bit of news I missed reported by Reuters and run in Al Jezeera.
Oh, why "Al Jezeera?" Reading what some of y'all have to say made me think reading what the Arab newspaper report can't be all that more far out. Dunno. It might be.
My guess is this story was duly reported in this country, and I missed it.
Bush aide jailed for dirty tricks scandal
Thursday 18 May 2006, 6:16 Makka Time, 3:16 GMT
Tobin's conviction is an embarrassment for Bush
A senior official in George Bush's re-election campaign has been sentenced to 10 months in prison for his role in suppressing votes in a US Senate race, a scandal that Democrats say may involve the White House.
James Tobin, 45, one of three Republican campaign operatives convicted in a phone-jamming scheme designed to keep New Hampshire Democrats from voting in a 2002 election, was convicted of two telephone harassment charges.
Prosecutors had asked for a two-year sentence.
Steven McAuliffe. a US district judge, described the crime as extremely serious and a threat to free and fair elections.
"People in your position need to know they cannot do these things and if they do the consequences are very, very serious," he said in handing down a sentence harsher than the six months home detention and community service sought by Tobin's lawyer.
Democrats want an investigation into 22 telephone calls made by Tobin and New Hampshire Republican party officials to the White House on November 5-6, 2002, and say they believe national Republican officials may be involved in the scheme.
Kathleen Sullivan, the New Hampshire Democratic party chairperson, said she did not consider the sentencing to be the end of the matter.
"I consider this to be one more step in the process of uncovering exactly who knew about this. There are still unanswered questions," she said.
The national Republican party, which has paid more than $2.5 million in legal fees to defend Tobin, has said the calls to the White House were routine during a tight state Senate race and had nothing to do with the phone-jamming.
800 calls
Get-out-the-vote hotlines set up by state Democrats and a firefighter's association to urge residents to vote were jammed by more than 800 hang-up calls.
State Republican officials say they tried to stop it once they learned of the scheme.
John Sununu, the Republican candidate, beat Jeanne Shaheen, the then governor in the election and state Republicans swept a number of close polls.
Tobin, the former New England regional director of the Republican National Committee, stepped down as New England chairman of Bush's 2004 re-election campaign when he became subject of a federal criminal investigation.
Several other senior Republican figures have been convicted for their parts in the scheme.
Tobin was denied bail and also fined $10,000 and given two years of probation. He plans to appeal, his lawyers said.
Reuters
-
A senior official in George Bush's re-election campaign has been sentenced to 10 months in prison for his role in suppressing votes in a US Senate race, a scandal that Democrats say may involve the White House.
I love that line.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
If the govt was doing a traffic study at an intersection to determin traffic patters about how many cars made a left hand turn and how many went strait.....and there was a judical process to oversee this traffic study.....and there were no liscense plate numbers written down, just the types of cars and the direction they went.....I don't see how my civil rights were being violated.
Sure.. no problem. It's ok that they know and duly note, recorded for prosterity and the highest corporate bidder that I call the Hooters Hotline 4 times a week...... my rights have not been violated because they didn't 'listen in'.
Whups.. looks like one of Osamas 4th cousins calls the same number 4 times a week. Now, we're all labeled commie terrorist tittie bombers, they open a file....
WAKE THE **** UP, GUNS!
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
Sure.. no problem. It's ok that they know and duly note, recorded for prosterity and the highest corporate bidder that I call the Hooters Hotline 4 times a week...... my rights have not been violated because they didn't 'listen in'.
Whups.. looks like one of Osamas 4th cousins calls the same number 4 times a week. Now, we're all labeled commie terrorist tittie bombers, they open a file....
WAKE THE **** UP, GUNS!
They don't know that Hangtime calls hooters, they know that hooters recieved 4 calls from your number and 5 calls from this number and 3 calls from this number and so forth. You are a needle in billion needle haystack and there is nothing in that haystack that points directly to your name. I seriously don't see this as an erosion of privacy or rights if used correctly.
Aha the gunslinger said "used correctly" you might be saying "Gunslinger what if it isn't used correctly?" then I'd say just like anything else there is judicial oversite. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060517/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_phone_records
-
The information credit card companies have on you makes the phone log business pale by comparison
-
Originally posted by bj229r
The information credit card companies have on you makes the phone log business pale by comparison
Good point! :aok
not to mention if you don't check the applicable box they can sell it at whim!
-
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
This is what Sandman was saying or are you ignoring it because it doesn't agree with your POV ?
Or perhaps you're just trolling ?
-
Winner!