Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Warspawn on May 18, 2006, 04:02:52 AM
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Hey all!
Been cruising along in AH for a few years now and was thinking it may be time for an 'un-perk' suggestion instead of everyone screaming about the Spit XVI and La-7 (as far as makin' them cost points to fly).
With the new planes out there, is there really a reason to have the C hog perked, or the -4? There are planes out there better in several areas that aren't perked; I just see no real reason for folks to have to spend points in these if they want to fly them.
I know perkies are pretty easy to get if you want to up some of the Corsairs that cost points, but having these perked (and some could argue the spit XIV as well) while Spit 16's, D Ponies and LA-7's aren't perked doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
Whatcha think?
Oh, and why are TA 152's perked? Someone tell me that one! :rolleyes:
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Hogs are ubers, leave them perked.
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I agree, TA 152 is WAY overpriced but thats as far as I go on this ride.
Leave the Hawgs perked.
Until you've flown in an arena that was 1/3 to 1/2 Chawgs all HO'ing anything and everything in sight. And seen what it did to gameplay your just not going to understand. Trust me on this one, we do NOT want to go back there. The Chawg stays perked forever, its not that expensive, anyone can grab one almost anytime they want.
The F4u-4 is quite rightly perked, its a late war moster. Leave it in the box.
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Have you flown latly? you see hogs now more then spits, after the last update they all improved and now everyone knows it. I'm acctually getting sick of seeing them and am happy to see a 16 every once in a while.
Nick172
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lotta hogs? almost only time i see hogs is in FT or off a cv. and your seeing more hogs. becuase theres now alot more players online. i see tons more spits then hogs. maybe its cuz i fly against bish. but i see less LGHEYS than b4 since the new spitty came out
and 152 is not WAY overpriced. its 5 perks for god sakes. i mean almost any noob can afford 5 perks. 152 is faster than the U-4 and has better guns. and will perform better at 30k
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The F4U-4 is the best prop fighting in AH and you want it unperked?
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I agree the f4u-4 should be perked and the f4u-c should be perked higher.
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Originally posted by monteini
Have you flown latly? you see hogs now more then spits, after the last update they all improved and now everyone knows it. I'm acctually getting sick of seeing them and am happy to see a 16 every once in a while.
Nick172
What arena do YOU fly? In the MA, in the last month, I've seen a total of FIVE -4 hogs, and maybe THIRTY C hogs. TOTAL. As compared to an average of 15-20 Spit XVI's and Spit VIII's per flight. Hogs more than Spits? Are you flying strictly CV areas? Or are you dreaming?
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I think the cost of the F4U-4 should be brought down considerably, as should the Spit 14 in light of the release of the Spit 16.
The C-Hog is opnly 5 perks, not a big price.
Ta-152...who cares? Unperk it, it might even get some flight time
Ar234....bring that down. Better yet, give the bomber guys a perk bomber work earning points to. Say a grand-slam version of the Lanc? Or B-29?
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I fly in the ma around 7 most nights, I am bish and I see f4u's all of the time last night I saw 7 f4u-4's thats in one night and lots of c's 5 perks for a 152 is no problem, although personally I think all perks are a joke. Up a 109g-2 or a 38g once and you can earn 20 perks in no time. Yes I understand if you are used to flying p-51d's or spit 16, la7, or nikki's then its a little harder getting the perks, EXPAND YOUR FLYING EXPERIANCE THEN.
Nick172
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I would love to see the -4 Hog unperked. It is the best prop fighter in the game.
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There's more F4U's now since 2.07 for sure. If it wasn't for only having .50 cals you'd see 'em all over the place (you need cannon to shoot up outhouses).
The C-Hog has so much cannon ammo - and Hizooka cannons no less - that it has to be perked.
I need to go to the TA and have someone demonstrate why the 4-Hog is so great. Goofing around offline with it; I just don't see it. Guns package is nothing special at all - not compared to the much cheaper C-Hog especially.
Likewise the Spit14 ... how is it so much better than the 16? I can't see the vast difference that results in the high perk cost.
The 152 ... sucks. If I had the 10's of 1000's of perks that some people do I'd probably fly it a lot hunting high-alt buffs just to use 'em up.
It don't ruffle my feathers either way ... but I think given recent changes in the FM and new planes some of these things could stand a second look.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
I agree, TA 152 is WAY overpriced but thats as far as I go on this ride.
Leave the Hawgs perked.
Until you've flown in an arena that was 1/3 to 1/2 Chawgs all HO'ing anything and everything in sight...
Actually I have. You started training me back in '99 GhostH :D So yeah, I do remember the days of swarms of CHogs. Almost fondly now with Spit 16's crowding the airspace. Guess I'm just tired of seeing clipped-wing Spitties all over the place, and thought maybe giving other options to fly dominating aircraft for free would reduce their (Spit XVI's) popularity. The perks spent on a Chog or F4U-4 don't really annoy me; it's mostly the attention I get entering any kind of fight. As with any perked ride, folks will suicide to bring you down and that gets downright annoying at times :furious
Originally posted by Karnak
The F4U-4 is the best prop fighting in AH and you want it unperked?
Oh! About the -4; do you really think it was the best prop aircraft of the war? Heck, the Spit 16 out accelerates it and holds E better (in fact the F4U-4 is only 9th in sea-level acceleration), and tons of planes have it way out-gunned. I'll have to look, but the LA7 (down on the deck) and K-4 (up above 7500' MSL) both out-run it (as do both Ponies, the Dora; lots of un-perked rides do), and the P-47N will deliver more ordinance from farther out. Dozens of planes out-turn it at speed, including the LA-7 and Spit XVI...and the other Corsairs in the stable. Even full-flaps turning doesn't put it in the top dozen (according to Kweassa's data).
It's certainly a 'good' plane, but it's not 'godly' by any stretch of the imagination.
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Originally posted by monteini
I fly in the ma around 7 most nights, I am bish and I see f4u's all of the time last night I saw 7 f4u-4's thats in one night and lots of c's 5 perks for a 152 is no problem, although personally I think all perks are a joke. Up a 109g-2 or a 38g once and you can earn 20 perks in no time. Yes I understand if you are used to flying p-51d's or spit 16, la7, or nikki's then its a little harder getting the perks, EXPAND YOUR FLYING EXPERIANCE THEN.
Nick172
I've got all the perks I'll ever need or want, I can have a perk ride any time I want. Provided they aren't side limited. Oh, and I never fly an elgay, a spit, a pony, or a nikki. I fly P-38's mostly, although I've been playing with the tiffie for a month or two.
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Im mostly a P-38 driver myself. I do like the -4 hog tho, its pretty stinking fast up level.
Im just weary of seeing the same La7s, N1ks and Spit16s at every encounter I fly. For a game with so many planes, I keep running into the same 4 or 5.
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Flying 38 98% of my time so get lots of perks, and no I am not a toolshedder. I can crash many jets over and over if I wanted to. Only ones that dont get many perks are the ones that need the nik, spit 16, and lgay7, to back up their no skills.
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Unperk everything.
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Perk everything
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Perk the Val - it am be the uberest turner.
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Soon.... very soon.. you will all join my army of the New Perk Agenda...
HA HA HA HA...
Except the New Perk Agenda was brought up really a long time ago... so now it's actually an old perk agenda that will replace our current perk agenda, becoming a new perk agenda for our current perk agenda which is actually an old perk agenda compared to my current old perk agenda which was suggested as a new perk agenda.
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It doesn't really matter at this point. If the perk system was more dynamic in that as newer variants come available those late or rare variants were perked then both the -4 and Chog should stay perked. Since HTC has abandoned, or at the very least allowed the current perk system to stagnate, then just unperk them.
Back when the Chog was getting near 20% of the kills in the arena there were far fewer planes choices. Now with the greater number of choices I don't think it would get near 20% again. However, it would be used way more then it is now with the light perk value.
While the -4 is an outstanding fighter very few 'outstanding' pilots would fly it. The -4 will be just another fast suicide jabo similar to the P-51. Very few will fight in it. They will load up with bombs, climb to 20k and rush at a field as fast as they can, dive in, then drop their bombs and either auger or runway 10 sectors before turning around to repeat.
The only 3 planes that could really unbalance the arena are the 262, the Tempest and the 163 (less so since its limited to certain bases). The rest of the perk planes should be unperked. While a couple of them are really decent fighters they will mostly get used by 'tards.
Perk points are so easy to accumulate that it doesn't really matter much except to those who think 'perk points' have some real value. These are the folks that get upset about perk values and losing perks points in the first place. What's a Chog perked 8? I could spend a whole tour auguring Chogs and still have plenty of points for the next tour.
Urchin when did you come back to AH, this tour..? Don't you have like 2000 perk points already?
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Nah, I came back last tour. But yea, I've got a little bit more than 2000 perks right now.
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As bad as the HO fetish and porkage is now, perk-free C-Hogs would make it insufferable. The 4-Hog ... that's another story ... the lack of cannons will keep most of the MA players from bothering with it, save for Jabo work.
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Originally posted by Warspawn
Oh! About the -4; do you really think it was the best prop aircraft of the war? Heck, the Spit 16 out accelerates it and holds E better (in fact the F4U-4 is only 9th in sea-level acceleration), and tons of planes have it way out-gunned. I'll have to look, but the LA7 (down on the deck) and K-4 (up above 7500' MSL) both out-run it (as do both Ponies, the Dora; lots of un-perked rides do), and the P-47N will deliver more ordinance from farther out. Dozens of planes out-turn it at speed, including the LA-7 and Spit XVI...and the other Corsairs in the stable. Even full-flaps turning doesn't put it in the top dozen (according to Kweassa's data).
It's certainly a 'good' plane, but it's not 'godly' by any stretch of the imagination.
The F4U-4 is the best all around fighter in the plane set... If it had hizookas, it would be second only to the 262 in perk price.
There's much to what a makes a great fighter. The F4U-4 can reach 446 mph at 25k, about 370 on the deck. It's sustained climb rate is in the top 10 or better. Acceleration ranks it among the fastest, considerably better acceleration than the Spit16 from 250 mph on up. Great roll rate, best rudder of any fighter. Its "wonder flaps" and power loading can screw a Spit16 into the ground. Almost nothing but the very best turn fighters can beat the -4 in a stall fight and those turn fighters will need a damn good pilot as the average guy will surely die.
If you can't beat virtually anything you encounter.... It's not the plane's fault. Co-E, Co-alt merge with a Tempest, the Tempest driver better go for the HO... He probably won't see the F4U-4 in his windscreen again.
Oh, one last thing. Turning at speed is limited by G loading on the pilot. Below corner velocity the F4U-4 can begin getting out flaps and REALLY tighten its turn. With full flaps it's as close to a helicopter as anything in the game. Super tight turn radius and the ability to break out of a lufberry and climb like crazy. Flown by a pilot who knows how to exploit it, the F4U-4 is as bad as bad gets.
My regards,
Widewing
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As bad as the HO fetish and porkage is now, perk-free C-Hogs would make it insufferable.
unlike the niki and typhy now? they perk free, HO alot(as does hurri2c) and i know typhy is used to pork a ton now. why they so different? besides hurri2c ;) both have 4 cannons, both have some advantage or another to the chog and both do what everyone fears will happen if chog is unperked.
understand, i could care less one way or other. The argument I am seeing though to keep it perked dont hold much water. imho
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All that ammo, Killnu ... all that ammo.
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niki and typhy have plenty of ammo. not as much, sure, but they do have thier advantages as well.
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As bad as the HO fetish and porkage is now, perk-free C-Hogs would make it insufferable.
That's all the Chog was used for when it got nearly 20% of the kills in the main. It Ho'ed, vulched and base raped. How else do you think they got nearly 20% of the kills in the main? 1 v 1 dogfights? The only reason the Chog ended up perked is because Pyro couldn't lower the eny value any lower unless it hit 0.
Nothing about the current main is any different then it was 3 years ago in terms of who ho's who or who porks/rapes what. Now there are more plane choices and the Chog is perked so low now even one legged, blind, albino, midget, welfare mom's can afford one. You don't see them running wild in the main. Its the most used perk plane and its usage will go up if free but the main can't get any worse then it has been in the past.
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niki and typhy have plenty of ammo
The Niki has 2cm Type 99 MK IIs and they are no where near as lethal as hizookas.
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Originally posted by Bruno
The Niki has 2cm Type 99 MK IIs and they are no where near as lethal as hizookas.
But you use land lots more hits with them because it's much easier to get the guns to bear on a target (with your average stick). /shrug You can have lethal-lasers-of-doom and they'll still do you no good unless you hit something with 'em.
One other reason I'd love to see the Chog unperki-fied is because of the relative lack of gun choices for American iron. .50's seem SO anemic here; I often find myself unloading before a nice shot (so G's aren't affecting my bullet pattern) and still getting the kill stolen by a Cannon-jockey who just plinked at my target. P-38's mount a single 2cm gun with the 1/2-inchers, but that series and the single Corsair C-hog are the only ones afaik that have a cannon option (and the implied effectiveness vs. GV's and buffs too...).
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The only reason not to unperk the chog is that it will eliminate the other F4u1s from the areana. Of course, that is a problem only if you are bothered by an historically insignificant model representing the corsairs in the MA. In practice, the perk cost is so low and options for spending perks so limited, that it is as good as free already.
The problem I have with the F4u-4 is made of two:
First is similar to the above. Unperk it and F4u-1A/D will have no existance in the areana. The corsairs will be represented by their two most insignificant models - btw, I'd like to see the P47N perked for the same reason.
The second reason is selfish. The last thing I want is another, even faster free plane in the areana. Even as it is now, if one likes to fly early or mid-war planes he's destined to spend his time chasing planes 20-40 mph faster than his ride, or having to climb high enough to get one diving attack opertunity before his target runs away. I don't mind people pwning me in their spit 16s becuase they fight and have harder time running away (though it is still faster than anything I like to fly). One La7 in the areana is enough - it being russian keeps its numbers down. Make an american F4U-4 free and instead of F4u-1s that fight, I'd get another no fun, running opponent. That is what the P51 is there for.
Bozon
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You can have lethal-lasers-of-doom and they'll still do you no good unless you hit something with 'em.
Its easier to land hits with Hizookas, especially at range and this is an advantage in the Ho which is what DoK was talking about.
.50s are not 'anemic'. They out range any gun in the game. When landing this at convergence they work fine. The choice of Ami 'iron' should be .50 cal after all that's what they used. There were only a couple of hundred Chogs in service before the war ended and saw limited combat at Okinawa.
As for killing tanks, Hizookas are just BS. They didn't carry AP... In Ah they are a hybrid round. With high velocity and mix of AP / HE they are the deadliest cannon in AH. In rl they RAF said the lethality of the Hizooka and the M'geschoss MGFF were about the same. In AH the MGFF is the weakest of the 2cm cannon. Even weaker then the 2cm Type 99 MK1. This is because the AH DM rewards a greater proportion of damage due to impact velocity and less so on HE. IIRC there no M'geschoss rounds modeled in AH and lethality is averaged out over the cannon load. If anything both .50 cals and Hizookas out perform all other MG and cannon types because of this. Flying head long into a wall of Hizookas if far more risky then flying into a wall of Type 99 MK II, especially at range.
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I never run in a 4-Hog. I can't use her as described by WW, either.
Guaranteed, though, unperk the 4-Hog and it sure as hell will shut up the "Perk the ElGay" whiners. Just not in the way you'd WANT it to.
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I can see the 4-Hog costing what a Ta-152 costs. It just doesn't have that huge a performance edge over non-perked planes.
All the other perked fighters are cannon monsters. Even the Totally Awful 152 is a beast in the guns department. You can't kill with a crossing shot or a HO in a 4-Hog like the other perked planes.
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The reason the f4uc is perked is becuase of the cannons, but there are other planes running around with 4 cannons that arent perked.
When it comes to the 4 hog i really dont noe. I honestly like the d better then the 4, its very fast but i think the d hog handles a bit better. Its one of those planes that u have to now how to fly to land kills, like the mustang. Whether it stays perked or is free really doesnt matter to me, i wouldnt fly it anyway, if i want to go fast i take 51d.
Alot of people complain about the mustang because its fast, but these are the guys that fly turn fighters. He'll fly a zero and get mad at me because i dont want to turn fight him. ANd they the funny thing is when theres 3 on 1(the 1 being u) and the say u got no balls. Its like me calling the zero pilot a punk because he doesnt want to come to 25k to fight me. If u have a turn fighter chances are that 51 is faster and if u have a fast plane chances r that 51 can out turn u. The mustang isnt the only runner i have seen. Typo's run like crazy. U dont want to let him get away, get in somethin faster, i have had 109s 190s typos temps dive and run, all i do is switch out of the corsair and chase him.
When it comes to the USAF gun choice i like my 50s, but some hispanos wouldnt hurt. The coverages are very important with the .50s. Maybe if the upgraded the damage models the 50s would be a better weapon. I have killed p47s with the first burst of my 50s, i have seen documentarys with this thing absorbing tons of damage from german 109s. 50s are good when u got ur coverages right but u got ur fights when u have to put more lead then normal(when there liter aircrafts like the zero this becomes very annoying), i hate those when i put shells in the cockpit and he keeps going. But since everything i fly has .50s cals i pretty much learned to live with its advantages aswell as there flaws. In the end .50s are good, they have a high fire rate and great amount of ammo.
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The Niki has 2cm Type 99 MK IIs and they are no where near as lethal as hizookas.
ummm yea...ok. what, does it take one more to take wing off?
Ive landed 20+ in one sortie, no rearms in niki and Chog. Rtb'd with no ammo left in either.
If you hit with the niki's gunz, it goes down. I will agree the ballistics are not as good as the Hispanos, but as far as what i consider lethality, oh ya, they are just as lethal. IMHO
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what Widewing said..........
I use to never take the -4 Hog, this tour started to fly it more ( mostly really )....
I still like all variants, mainly F4U-1 & F4U-1C but am falling in love more so with the F4U-4 these days...
never seen a C-Hog cost 5? mainyl see it cost 9 to 16 perk points............only if I lose it does it cost.....
the F4U-4 most times is costling 21 to 29 perk points......
I fly as knights.........
also, I like Bozon's assessment of the later variants should have a slight perkness so the other variants do not go unused and end up being Hangar Queens.........case in point all the P47N's we are starting to see and all the Spit16's you never hardly see a spitV/VIII/IX these days.......
I find the F4U-4 on par with the La7 for the most part, unless the La7 is just blowing through , the 4-Hog can maintain a chase and sometimes even close the gap depending on the La7 pilot's ability to maximize the planes top end speed........some people should read the article titled " The Chase " by Badboy at SimHQ........
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I'd say that the La-7 is probably as good as the F4U-4, or if not it is so close that it wouldn't matter anyway for most people. It used to be roughly equal to the Tempest (that may have changed, the FM has had a couple revisions since I played around with it).
The Spit 16 is as good or better in a fight than any of the perk planes, but it can't run away from the speed demons, so maybe it balances out.
I *still* don't see whats so great about the Niki. It used to be an awesome plane (back in AH 1). I'd have taken it over any Spit or the Ki-84 in AH1, but in AH2 it just feels fat and unresponsive. The Spits and Ki-84 feel a lot more nimble to me.
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All late war fighters should be perked.
Either that, or all should be unperked.
Sure.
The F4U-4 is a great plane. It might even be the 'best' plane as Widewing puts it. But seriously now, how much of a performance margin does it have over its contemporary late-war fighters that is large enough to justify its current perk price, when all the monsters such as the 109K-4, 190D-9, P-51D, La-7 and etc. are not perked at all?
Compare the F6F-5 and the A6M5. Both are contemporary mid-war fighters. Aside from turn performance and sustained climb rate (perhaps acceleration too), the F6F-5 simply dominates the A6M5 in overall performance attributes that concerns aerial combat. It is faster, rolls better, dives better, tougher, better armament, better handling at high speeds etc etc etc etc.. It can tactically dominate the fight, with the only possible reason of being shot down coming from only the pilot himself.
So, would you say the difference between the La-7 and the F4U-4 is even larger than the A6M5 and the F4U-4? The 'superiority' of the F4U-4 over other late war fighters is clearly not something that justifies its current perk price. In terms of performance if the F4U-4 is perk material than so is the La-7, Typhoon IB('44), Fw190D-9, Bf109K-4, P-51D, P-47N, and etc etc.
However for some reason the 4hog stays perked, the same with the Spit14, which would be the Ta152 to the Fw190D-9. Who cares if the Spit14 outperforms the Spit16 at 25k? Who cares if the Ta152H-1 outperforms the Fw190D-9 at 35k? At the altitudes where it really matters in the MA both the Spit16 and the Fw190D-9 is much superior to the Spit14 and the Ta152H-1 - except for some reason the planes that perform better remain perked, and the planes that performs even worse are perked.
At least the Ta152H-1 and the F4U-1C has grounds to be perked in the fact that it was a rare fighter...(in which case so should the N1K be perked). Why's the Spit14 perked in the first place?
I say unperk the Spit14, Ta152H-1, and the F4U-1C, F4U-4.
UTSTAFF!!!
..either that, or slap a modest perk price on all the contemporary late-war fighters in the game that maintains comparable performance to the currently perked fighters, but for some reason remains unperked.
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I think lowering the cost of the 4-Hog to 5 or less makes sense. Even then, I'll wager you see more C-Hogs because the MA is all about HO'ing. But at least it'd be affordable for those who want to fly it. Spit14 is probably the same kind of deal - with the Spit16 in the MA now, I just can't see why the 14 is so expensive.
Making the 4-Hog free would more or less remove all the F4U-1's and P51's from common use in the MA.
The Ta152 is a completely separate debate because that plane sucks. Bring it down to 2 perks and I'll use it to hunt high-alt bombers (which is more or less a suicide mission anyway).
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The spit16 is alot better then the other spits, that makes something like the spit 9 a rare site, but the p47n isnt much better then the d model. I fly the d over the n model. All the n model p47s are prob just newbies takeing the latest model. I dont fly the b model 51 but if im fighting one u still have a chance of seeing a b over a d model.
IF the f4uc is perked becuase of the rarity of the plane the nik should be perked also. The la7 i think was another plane that wasnt made in major numbers either(ill try to dig up the stats). The only difference between the c and d corsair is those guns. If the c hurr gets to have 4 cannons why cant i have them on the corsair. Hoing is something that people do without cannons or not, i seen f4fs try to ho, and win.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
If the c hurr gets to have 4 cannons why cant i have them on the corsair.
You already have them on the corsair at the low-low price of 4.99!
Even better - it's totaly free if you land it.
HTC is not likely (nor should imo) mess with the MA. It is a relic. Clearly, Combat Tour is what HTC consider as the future of the game and all development efforts are directed in that direction. Messing with the MA will only distract them and they'll have to experiment with the setting and deal with the endless whining that will result - perhaps loosing a few subscribers in the process.
Maybe, if CT is a success, they will attempt this.
Bozon
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I thought the reason the TA and the Corsairs are perked is due to their limited numbers in the war?
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if the did it according to production numbers the f4u4 would be unperked, there were only like 200 or so more f4u1ds then f4u4
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I still don't get why the Hog's are perked and the Spit 16 and La's are unperked. Seems to me that what was happening with the Hog's being unperked is now happening with the Spit's La's Hurr blah blah. Everytime you take off that's all you see. It's not uncommon to be in a furball and see 15 enemy spitfires with 1 or 2 people flying something diferrent, i mean come on. Afterwhile it's going to be just a Spitfire simulator around here.:huh
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I got back into m/a last week(final out of that h2h crap) and its retarded. I come to a field to drop some bombs and make a quick rocket run(in a f4ud) and i get there drop real quick so i can get some air to air going... and the con ids show up its just spit16 spit16 spit16 spit16. Give me a break. And if it aint a spit 16 its a la7. Its just makeing the game suck. Then everytime somebdoy lands kills 60% of the time its la7 and spit16. Rename it spit16 vs la7. Then if the la7 cant ho u r turn better he will runaway(if hes outnumbered i dont care, but they do this when its one on one). Its getting out of hand. I saw a p40 the other day and though i was seeing things. The way things r goin aces high will have maybe 8 planes that people take out and the rest will be hanger queens(niki,la7,spit16,typo,110, and asorted bombers)
There was a different post awhile back, i forgot how started it but he had a really good idea. He said to perk all of the later perk rides. This would get all of those hanger queens out and into the action. PLane like the razor back canopy p47 will be flying. The m/a needs more balance, its now fun when its 6 la7s a spit16 and maybe a typo and 109. Either that or unperk everthing but the jets. I mesed around with the la7 offline and the thing can get to 400mph at 4k! and they cant let me have a f4u4(it doesnt have cannons) for free. It isnt the point about sending a couple of points, its just i shouldnt have to pay when the la7 is free.
Im sorry if im not leting this arguement die its just killing the fun factor of the game when i see the same fighter over and over.
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Hello bkbandit,
While Spit 16 and La7 are without doubt the both most used types in game and can give you some frustration at times, they are not nearly as dominant nor numerous as you may believe right now. No way that 60% of all landed kills shown are from that planes alone. I see a lot P38´s, F4Us, C205, Bf 109 and many more planes landing kills. But as that is of course a subjective view, I just looked up the stats yesterday.
(There is no pure "Usage" stat, but if you add kills & deaths for a plane, you get quite a expressive number number):
1. Spit16: 8%
2. La7: 7.1%
3. N1K2 6.7%
4. P51D 5.3%
5. Bf110G 4%
6. Typhoon 3.7%
7. HurriIIC 3.4%
(...)
20. C205 1.9%
(...)
30. Bf109K 1.1%
The top 10 Airplanes have 47% kills&deaths combined,
the top 20 68% total, and even ranks 41-60 have about 22% kills & deaths (much more than I expected)
(If any one is interested, I could post a little chart)
And even more important is IMHO the K/D rate. The Spit 16 has a k/d of 1.07, that´s absolute unimpressive! F4U4 has about 2.6, Ki-84 about 1.6, 109K 1.5 and even the C205 has 1.33 and the FM2 1.05%. The Spit 16 is on K/D rank 29, La7 rank 19!
So while the most used planes, La7 & Spit 16 are not as dominant or deadly as we all (including myself) may sometimes tend to believe...
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The Spit16 and La7 aren't as statistically dominant because you have so many idiots flying them.
As for valid comparisons of the F4U-4 try this one (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=la7&p3=190d9&p4=f4u4).
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And yet even WITH those charts we'll still have the "4-Hog ain't so uber!" nonbelievers coming in. :D
I think the lethality chart is a bit deceiving relying solely on hitting power alone, tho. The Ma Deuce is as near to point-and-click shooting as you can get in here so getting fire on target is a lot easier than with the ballistics of the ElGay's cannon, and under convergence the .50 cal is just plain nasty (granted not so effective against Buffs).
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Originally posted by Karnak
The F4U-4 is the best prop fighting in AH and you want it unperked?
Maybe was in real world, but not in the "reality" and needs of the game
not all the players play for fights/score and skils, and imop is not eficient for base defence/goon hunting/, if i would have the F4U-4 unperked next to La7, i would chose the La7.
90%+, of the fights in MA are under, or end up under 10k, and La7 is faster, accelerates better, rear visibility is better in la7, i would not trade 3x20mm shvaks, for 6 x .50cal,
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Originally posted by Saxman
And yet even WITH those charts we'll still have the "4-Hog ain't so uber!" nonbelievers coming in. :D
Well it's uber, but how is it so expensive compared to the other three planes compared which aren't even perked?
Given how things happen in the MA, not having cannons is a significant handicap. The M2's ballistics are great, but you still need a long burst into one place to kill; cannons just need a couple rounds to hit anywhere.
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I consider the F4U-4 to be the best all round piston fighter of WWII, and I think it is in AH as well. Widewing says it far better than I can. The thing is a monster.
Now, I could see an argument for perking the Spitfire Mk XVI and unperking the Spitfire Mk XIV, but I think that is fine as it is now.
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Perk anything with more then 2 cannons :)
With all the HO shooters now, it gets tough as the Hurri IIc drivers do it, the LA7 guys, the C Hogs, the Tiffies, even the Temps.
Misjudge the merge even a tad and one hit you are down in particular in a 38.
Of my 104 deaths this tour (yeah I suck, but that's beside the point), most fall to those cannon birds.
11 to Spit XVIs although I've killed 25 of them so I think that has more to do with sheer numbers, followed by 10 to LA7s, 9 to Hurri IIcs, 5 to C Hogs and 5 to N1Ks.
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Lusche thanks for the stats. They arent dominate in the kill/death but why do i see them in bunches. I dont remeber the last time i seen a zero. Maybe its the side of the map i fight on but dam. The guy that fly the spit16s and la7s are the sucide guys, the run in get one guy and get banged by 3 other fighters. Spit16 is the plane that i bet is most vulched in the game. Last nite there where 4 5 guys that keep tryin to up from a base we were hitting, i was crusin 5k and watching them just get slamed by all the other bishops. It must have been 5 minutes till we destroyed the hangers and stoped them. If it wasnt for that spit 16 would be the must dominant by far. Dokgonzo got it right, alot of idiots fly them. The plane really has no real weakness, other then the duriability and the fact that alot of "simple" people fly it. SOme guys say "let the new guys have a chance to learn", they wont learn nothin in spit 16. The la7 is just a ho machine and the first guy to run, if i cant say nothin else about the spit16 at least it stays to fight u.
I really dont see why the f4u4 is considered uber. Why because it can chase these runing la7s and typos. Yes its faster, it accel rates better, climbs faster, but thats it. It still got 6 50s. The 6 50s arent a bad gun package, there really good but not point and click. When u look at the gun package as a whole, ammunation wise and ballistic then in my opinion there the best(unless u got the 4 hispanos on the corsair c with all that ammo). GHI spelled it out for us, f4u4 was the best in the real world not in the virtual world of aces high. 9 out of 10 guys will do just what ghi said.
Perk anything with more then 2 cannons, sounds good. BUt then those cannon guy will either move to 6 50s are want them perked. Just perk everything but the early warbirds. I want to see how lang those suicide spits will last.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Maybe its the side of the map i fight on but dam.
Ah yes, good point! In some battles they are much more prevalent than in others, especially if one side gets cornered and is fighting a desperate defensive battle, the number of Lalas in air rises dramatically. And I have to confess that I will be one of them :D
And on that maps with larger distances between bases you will encounter less La7´s.
So your perception of "nuthin but Spits & La´s" may have been right for that battles you fought..
Originally posted by bkbandit
SOme guys say "let the new guys have a chance to learn", they wont learn nothin in spit 16. The la7 is just a ho machine and the first guy to run, if i cant say nothin else about the spit16 at least it stays to fight u..
On that issue, I belong to another school of thought. If you would put all newbs in that "crappy" early-war rides competing with Mustangs,Spits,Tempests, Doras & Franks, most of them wouldn´t learn anything at all, because they would have been shot even faster than they are now. People are not able to cope with an unlimited level of frustration, they´ve got to have some success better sooner than later to stay motivated. And that is easier to achive in planes like Spit 8, 16 or maybe La5/7. If they are willing to learn, they will learn even in dweebmachines, and if not, a P40 wouldn´t help them though ;) This game is hard enbough to master as is for a newb.
I started my AH life about 6 months ago, and for the first few tours I flew La7 most of the time. I was thankful for that extra speed & power and easy handling that made it possible that not every wrong move ended with a flaming death. As my skill was improving, I took other planes more and more often into the skies. Today only about 10% of my kills are in a Lala as I work my way from top to bottom of the planeset. I think in 3 years I´ll be able to fly SpitI´s with some degree of success ;)
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Take the C off, leave the 4 on !
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to learn with ok, but they wont leave it. I was forced to leave it, i kept breaking the plane on high h turns. But when i compare spit 16 to other fighters it does things that just kept u flyin it. It rolls like crazy climbs great accels great. Its only weakness is its duriability and maybe the gun package. Whats wrong with learning in a spitfire 9 or 5. I never said put all the newbie but the dweebis that cant land kills with out la7 or spit16 will be out of luck, and plus t/a is there for a reason. ANd learning on somethin like a f6f isnt terrible. HTC really needs to rethink the perk planes list.
I dont see why leaving the 4 on makes a difference. It just accels better and is faster, thats it. I dont see why people say its a monster. I still think its because then people cant runaway with typos and la7.
NOt only when iam attack a base do i see them, i see them all other.On the map now its preetyy big and i still see alot of them. I just really want to see a wider range of fighters. All u need to do to la7 is took of that third canno. I read somewhere that the three cannon la7 was very rare. In the 200s. With a 2 cannon la7 it will become "less" popular. The spit16 is just somthin else. The way it moves feels more like a f16. Perk it like they perk the f4u4. All the spit 16 guys arent left in the cold, they have many other models to get into. Just like if the perk the d mustang those guys will pick up the b model, just like if they perk my d corsair(and i couldnt afford the d) i would get into the f4u1. There not bad planes(i have landed kills in the f4u1, not vulches either).
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What then? Perk the Spit VIII as it surges in use?
At that point those of us who are actually Spitfire fans get left out in the cold.
For me, I prefer the Spitfire Mk VIII to the Spitfire Mk XVI, so as I contemplate returning to AH I know that a perked Spitfire Mk XVI wouldn't affect me until the whiners got my Spitfire Mk VIII perked as well.
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Going cannon count alone won't make it - the 190A-5 shouldn't be perked, nor should the 190A-8 ... they are so vulnerable in the MA if the pilot makes any mistakes and gets slow. Not so with the other multi-cannon planes mentioned.
But the issue at hand in this thread was the F4U-1C and F4U-4. The -1C needs to stay perked because we already know what happens when it's unperked. And that was before the Hawg got Der Uberflappen.
The 4-Hog, though, has no real performance edge over the 3 top late war rides, other than full-flap turn rate. Which is compensated for with lower lethality. A lot lower. If its perked for the reason of being a rare bird, fine, perk it like a Ta-152. I'd pay 5 perks for a nice ride that's gonna get HO'd out of the sky anyway because it has no cannons.
But throwing away a 20+ perk ride that way when I'm not getting anything for the perks that a La-7 or Spit-16 or D-9 doesn't also give me don't make sense.
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Karnak i see where ur coming from but u cant compare a spit 16 and a 8. Spit 16 really puts the others to shame, i have flown both. The spit 16 has crazy agility, the others cant stack up. The other spits r safe, there no way u guys will get left in the cold with all those models. With the spit16 of the market u will get more variety in spits not just 16s. I only seen 5 spits in the last week that werent 16s. And i see alot of spits. I flew spits agaisnt 109 and i can apperciate them(im not a spit hater) but c'mon. The spit16 is kinda killin the rep of the spitfire period, without that 16 spit guys will get more respect, i mean... i heard a guy say im a ace spitfire pilot and i laughed, i said wat model and he said 16, and i told him thats why i laughed. Im a corsair fan but if every other plane is a corsair c hoin everyone i wouldnt fight perking it, i would have to let it go and either pay the perk or fly d model. Doesnt bother me, i can earn perk points.
I just got out of the m/a arena and that c hog is a brute. I undertand why its perked but y arent the other 4 cannon planes perked. I mashed a nik 51 and lacs like they were paper. Thats not fair. NIK typo hurriC(if i missed a 4 cannon plane add it) should be perked. THese guys r the biggest ho bags in the game. AS soon as i see them comin for a head on i move but alot of guys go for it and lose, and we are giving a guy with no skill a good score(that and vulching, another post). I dont want them to unperk c hog, i want them to perk the other 4 cannon planes and cut one canon off the la7. Hurri guys will fly the hurri one(or a non spit) i mean give me a break i have seen huuriCs turn inside zeros and it has 4 cannons ontop of that, typo guys can do the same thing the hurri guys do or they can fly mustangs, nik guys can move to a ki84,zero or the hanger queen ki61(i noe its 60 somethin). THe la7 with 2 cannons or perked wont be bad they got la5.
I understand some people might be left in the cold but i really dont c it that way. Theres alot more planes out there. IF they perked all the hogs and 51 i would just rock a f6f, i have flown them with alot of success before, yes it isnt my first choice but i can adjust and learn(im still learning). THe reason i changed out of the spit 16 a couple of months ago was partly due to the dweeb 16 remark(in h2h its 8 guys, tempers r all over) and i started to break the plane with high g turns. I mean i would cut hard and would have his six but both wings would fall off. YEa the corsair doesnt move like it but i feel it has a better gun package(compared to chog theres no contest) it takes all the g's i through at it, it carrys alot of ord and ammo, its faster, better in the dive and its does pretty well on a full tank of gas. These guys that r "left out in the cold" need to learn another plane or stop playing simple.
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Bkbandit, you are missing the point.
Right now, the Spit 16 is the "best" 'turny-plane' (much like the La-7 is the "best" Ho-n-Go plane).
So you (and some others, no doubt, so don't feel as if I'm coming after you personally) think "Oh, this Spit 16 is just to good! It can turn, accelerates well, has the best guns in the game, and isn't even that slow! Perk it!"
What Karnak is saying is that there is always a "Best plane".
If the Spit 16 gets perked (which it won't), the new "best plane" would be the Spit 8. The Spit 8 is a Spit 16 with normal span wings and .303s. They are identical other than that. So fine, lets perk that too. Whats the next "best plane"?
Probably the niki, I'd imagine. It'd go from 5-6% use to 14-15% (add almost all the Spit 16 drivers to it).
OMG, PERK TEH NIKI! Four cannons, absurd ammo load, turns on a dime and gives you back a nickel's change!
Good argument, lets perk it.
So now what happens? I imagine either the Spit 9 useage takes off or the Hurri-2C's usage does. Perk those?
See where we are going?
The Spit 16 does not enjoy such a huge performance advantage over the other "turny planes" that perking it would make any difference at all. The Spit 8 / Niki would dominate just the way the Spit 16 / Niki dominate a "furball" now. Perk the Spit 8 and Niki and you get Spit 9's and Hurri-2C's.
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Yeah, what Urchin said.
The only caveat I'd add would be that it would be interesting to see what happened if the 3-cannon La-7 were perked, leaving the 2-cannon version free.
And I still can't see any reason why the 4-Hog costs more than 5 perks. Not in an MA dominated by HO'ing cannon-birds.
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the spit 8 cant do half of what the 16 can do. I have fought agaisnt them and flyed them. The spit16 is way better, if the 8 was as good i would see at least 2 of them, but i see seafires and 5s. THere so many spit 16s and hoing that it takes the fun out of the game. U can be the best 109 pilot in the game and just get sick with all of the spit16s. Last time i flew spits i run the 9 against 109, great plane, i was taking those 109s out. BUt with a 16 it becomes to easy, the roll rate alone is a big advantage. The gun package sucks but its still better then the other spits.
People say oh keep c hog perked because of hoing, but have u seen m/a lately. Perk the 3 cannon planes, c hog is perked and that isnt fair to corsair guys. Give them a lite perk and thats it.
There will always be a best plane but theres too many hanger queens to worry about that. The 3 cannon planes and spit 16 would just give the m/a more variety. 2 cannon la7s, then u will see a more wider variety of things to fight. There wont be any fighter that ups in packs of 5(all guys from different squads) like the la7 and spit16 does. I see what ur talking about best but after the perks it will put it under controll and there wont be any standard m/a plane. If u want it u buy it if u lose it that it. WHen u pay for planes u r less willing to ho:lol
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Spit VIII is within a hairsbreadth of the Spit XVI in capability. The capabilities are just slightly different.
Spit VIII:
Slightly better turning
Better fuel endurance
Spit XVI:
Better roll
Slightly better guns
Slightly faster at low altitudes
Every fight I have had Spit VIII vs Spit XVI has been a close, hard fight if the pilots were close in skill.
People are sheep and will allow themselves to be convinced there are large differences where there are not.
Overall, yes, the Spit XVI is more agile, but it is not so far as to make that much of a difference.
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Spit8 v. Spit16 (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=spit16&p2=spit8)
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Could it also be -
F4U-1C
Service - Spring 1945
Manufactued - around 200
Seems like a rarish late war bird, with awesome guns.
Karnak - Perk the XVI, and unperk the XIV, your nuts?
Although thinking about it a free XIV would a dream, or more likely an MA fiasco.
It's the ONLY Spit you'd see.
Perk 1700HP or so Merlin 266 XVI and unperk a 2000HP+ Griffon 65 XIV.
Love to know your reasoning.
Oh by the way, I'd love to see it.
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The handling on the XIV is much, much worse than on the XVI.
That said, I didn't say I would support it, just that I thought an argument for it could be made.
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Personally Karnak I'd be all for it, something free that can compete with the La7 on equal terms.
Always thought the XIV and Ta-152 should both be free, their biggest assets are at very high alts, not exactly where the MA furballs are.
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well i stated playing this game a week before the spit16 came out and u saw spits but they were different models runing around not all one model. Sheep lol, i noe what they can do.
Perks arent decided by production numbers. If that was the case f4u4 would be free. There werent that many spit16s, alittle over a 1000 were made in 44'. There where more niks then that(around 1500). There hey down too many threads about 16 and la7 and majortiy of the people here want them perked. When i flew 16 i noe that sooner or later it would be perked because of the performance. Alot of guys that take it out for sorties say the same thing. When i see a corsair A good half the time its the c model but i dont care because its a perked plane(it is a very cheap price, the most i have seen it was 15 perks). A lite 15 20 tops perk price on these planes would give the m/a more balance. Nobody here cant tell me they cant afford 15 perks to take out a cannon bird la7 or spit 16. Im not talking about a 50 point perk, just 15 to 20.
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NO
Bronk
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i was porking a base once in a p47d40 , and i got gang banged by 6 spit 16s...... if they were perked there wouldnt be anymore gang bangs like what happened to me.
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Originally posted by justfreds
i was porking a base once in a p47d40 , and i got gang banged by 6 spit 16s...... if they were perked there wouldnt be anymore gang bangs like what happened to me.
Right. It would have been a Spit VIII gangbang instead.
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Originally posted by justfreds
i was porking a base once in a p47d40 , and i got gang banged by 6 spit 16s...... if they were perked there wouldnt be anymore gang bangs like what happened to me.
So your upset that you couldn't pork unopposed. WHAAAAA.
Sounds like the XVI is doing the roll i thought it would do.
Intercept inbound porkers and base defence.
Bronk
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bkbandit,
In your musings, did it occur to you that the Spit XVI is the same as the Spit LF.IX? Yes, the LF.IX of which nearly 5,000 were built.
So in actuality the number you use should be about 6,000, not 1,000.
Also, in your N1K2-J number of 1,500ish you counted the very differnent N1K1-J. 1100ish N1K1-Js and only a bit over 400 N1K2-Js.
Less than 300 C.205s.
Just over 200 F4U-1Cs.
A bit under 50 Ta152H-1s.
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Originally posted by Karnak
bkbandit,
In your musings, did it occur to you that the Spit XVI is the same as the Spit LF.IX? Yes, the LF.IX of which nearly 5,000 were built.
So in actuality the number you use should be about 6,000, not 1,000.
Also, in your N1K2-J number of 1,500ish you counted the very differnent N1K1-J. 1100ish N1K1-Js and only a bit over 400 N1K2-Js.
Less than 300 C.205s.
Just over 200 F4U-1Cs.
A bit under 50 Ta152H-1s.
Karnak do confuse the lad with so many numbers. Hell, think you lost him with the roman numeral IX.
Bronk
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Widewing is right, the -4 Hog is an outright monster. If you dont think so, you dont know how to use it. Its only real drawbacks are average guns and short fuel range.
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Nice bronk:aok dont add anything to the thread, ur just wasteing ur time clickin this link.
Tryin to perk a base with a solo p47 and getting jumped is ur on fault. Im pretty sure thing was loaded to the max with fuel and ord. With that much wieght it feels like a truck. Even without the extra ord and fuel it still wont hang with a spit 16 with out alt and e.
Before the spit16 came out there where other spits in the air, now there mostly 16s. U used to see all the other models(i liked the 5). Production number dont matter, if it did f4u4 would be free. The spit16 and 9 arent the same, the spit has shorter wings and a different gun package,in r hanger there is spit16 and spit 9 not no spit LF.IX. Its just very gay when i up and there 10 spit16s. GUys that fly spit 16 laught about it, that the map is cluttered with them.
c205 is a solid plane but it isnt a simple point and click plane. If it went by production numbered this would be perked. BUt there where more f4ucs then c205s, they perk the f4uc because it was ruining the m/a, the spit16 and la7 are doin the same. I have upped been in all spit rooms in h2h and the spit16 is dominate. A spit 8 9 or 5 is a great plane when stacked up against "other" planes but it cant mes with the spit 16.
U guys attack like a 10 15 point perk is so much. I take out a corsair c i got mind, just have to be more care full so i dont lose it. And if i do there aint nothin wrong with the d or the hellcat.
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The big thing about the F4U-4 is that she does pretty much EVERYTHING well, and THAT'S what really makes her such a beast. It can soak up a ton of damage, and imo the Brownings are being WAY underestimated around here--except for the occaisonal rubber bullets night I rarely have trouble sawing off wings or other important bits with half-second bursts, (well, when I hit the target :D ) and with the previously mentioned good ballistics of the Ma Deuce getting any sort of sustained fire is made much easier. She already has all the good performance aspects of the early Corsairs (roll rate, excellent top speed at all altitudes, excellent high-speed maneuverability and pretty dang good in the mid to low-speed range with flaps out) and adds even better performance in the vertical and GREATLY improved acceleration (checking the comparisons, the 4-Hog is within 1-1.5 seconds of most of the top dragsters from the 0-250 range). She's just as stingy with her E as any other Hog (all of which will hold on to it relentlessly) and just like any other Hog can STILL shed it rapidly at will (is there any other fighter with high energy retention that can even DO that?!)
So what if this plane or that plane might have an edge in one category or another? The F4U-4 can just pull another trick out of her VERY full bag.
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bkbandit,
You did not understand what I said.
The Spitfire LF.Mk IXe and the Spitfire Mk XVI are the same airplane.
We have a Spitfire F.Mk IX in AH, not a Spitfire LF.Mk IX.
Clipped wings don't say anything as the wings could be clipped or unclipped as desired. I can find you photos of Spitfires with high altitude engines with clipped wings and photos of Spitfire LF.Mk VIIIs or Spitfire LF.Mk IXs with full span wings.
As a matter of fact, the Spitfire Mk VIII in AH is a Spitfire LF.Mk VIII with full span wings.
If you look at the performance diagrams, the reason the Spitfire Mk VIII and Spitfire Mk XVI are the same is because the Merlin 266 in the Spitfire Mk XVI is just an American built Merlin 66 like in the Spitifre LF.Mk VIII that we have.....or the Spitfire LF.Mk IX that we do not have.
The Spitfire LF.Mk IX entered service in March, 1943.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
Before the spit16 came out there where other spits in the air, now there mostly 16s. U used to see all the other models(i liked the 5). Production number dont matter, if it did f4u4 would be free. The spit16 and 9 arent the same, the spit has shorter wings and a different gun package,in r hanger there is spit16 and spit 9 not no spit LF.IX. Its just very gay when i up and there 10 spit16s. GUys that fly spit 16 laught about it, that the map is cluttered with them.
I cannt see a point... You as to perk Spir16 or unperk F4U-4?
Originally posted by bkbandit
U guys attack like a 10 15 point perk is so much. I take out a corsair c i got mind, just have to be more care full so i dont lose it.
So, what a problem with F4U-4? It cost only ~15-20 perks and it not too much as you said.
Yes, Spit16 very good and easy plane, but it not near as capable as F4U-4. Even F4U-1D can easy match with spit16. And 6x0.50 are deadly. Corsairs are not so common in MA because they are not "easy planes", they requires skill to fight in it.
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Its easy -
Take the 1942 Spit F IX -
Put a Merlin 66 in it = LF IXc
Put a Merlin 66 in it and add 50cals = LF IXe
Put an American built Merlin 66 (Merlin 266) in it and add 50 cals = LF XVI
Therefore LF IXc / LF IXe / LF XVI are all the same plane, of which over 4500 were built ( 3500+ LF IX's and 1054 XVI's )
From mid 1943 onwards almost every IX built was the LF IX.
The F IX (Merlin 61) and HF IX (Merlin 70) complete the Mk IX family, they had around 2100 models built.
Clipped wings mean nothing - This was done at a unit level (apart from XVI all delivered clipped), and you can find pics of an aircraft either clipped or with a regular wing depending on what it was being used for.
Another example is the Spit HF VII - All were originally fitted with the extended pointed tips, but by D-Day they had been replaced by regular tips as they were no longer needed for extremely hi-alt work.
HF, F ,LF - Refers to motor fitted, NOT wing tip type.
Just to really confuse you -
The Mk IX came BEFORE the Mk VIII.
Why? - VIII was in development when the FW190's arrived. So as a 'temporary' counter to them they put a Merlin 61 in a Mk V airframe and desginated it the F IX. The Mk VIII didn't arrive till around 12 months later.
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Yes the f4u4 is the type of plane that propertly used is very strong. The spit16 is a easy plane and that is bad for alot of the new guys. Theres great pilots out there, off the top of my head theres a guy that flys 109s docuwe. He makes that 109 do amazing things. I love fighting him one on one. Those fights are like those old samurai sword fights. Start at 1k and work fight about to 20k or from 20k down. These r the fights that i play the game for. The corsair d can beat it u just cant get careless, i have to work harder. I really dont want this game to get corny, i want the level of competition to be high. I want to log on and noe im fightin with the best of the internet pilots. I never said unperk f4u4, but when the cannon planes are free and la7 and spit 16 are free it really isnt fair(i will spend the perk points, no 10 15 isnt alot but when i can get somethin almost as good for nothin i will take the freebie). This game isnt supposed to be easy.
Corsair 4 is a great plane but how many guys really now how to get everything out of it. 51d is the same. Its fast, has great views, solid gun package, solid turn rate, but alot of guys still dont noe how to get the full power out of the plane(i dont noe either). i bag sorties and i can protect bombers very well but i still need more time to get it down. F4u4 is the same kind of beast, u need to full understand her to make it a monster.
I really dont want this game to become lame. i really like this game. IF it aint this ill prob just wait for ps3 to get back on to internet gameing(this was my first internet game).
I dont see reengineing an older model counting as the same plane. Its like taking a 69 camaro and puting in the new 500 horse ls7 engine. The stock engine had 300 horse and the ls7 reengined camaro has 500. These arent the same cars. There the same body but are 2 different animals. Its like saying the p51 with the allison is the same as the p51 with the merlin.
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Your misunderstanding -
LF IXc - Merlin 66 - Mid '43
LF IXe - Merlin 66 - June 44
LF XVI - U.S. built Merlin 66 - Oct 44
Total of 4500+ produced
Same plane, same engine. Only reason for XVI designation was to differentiate between different tools/spares required because of different measureing systems used between US / UK.
In fact LF IX and XVI rolled off the same production line side by side, all that decided if they were LF IX or XVI was where the motor was made.
Been saying for a while now it should be retagged the LF IXe, just to avoid these misunderstandings.
Would then also open up the possibility of adding .303 as an armament choice to have the LF IXc also.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
I never said unperk f4u4, but when the cannon planes are free and la7 and spit 16 are free it really isnt fair(i will spend the perk points, no 10 15 isnt alot but when i can get somethin almost as good for nothin i will take the freebie). This game isnt supposed to be easy.
Weapon alone dont determines plane's cost. As well as rarity i believe. IL-2 or Hurr2 are HO monsters for example, you want to perk them too?
Game is supposed to be fun. If your fun is flying in easy-mode planes - you can do that, if you like challenge - you can fly other plane and so on. Asking to force others fly in difficult planes is not best way.
Back to spit16, it is good for noobs. Guys who said noobs dont learn anything while flying spit16 are plain wrong. If somebody want to learn for basic ACM he can do it in spit16 with great success, if he dont want to learn he would learn in any plane.
Flying spit16 force you to fight even if you in disadvantage, because you cannt just run like you can do in La7 or P-51D.
I really like to meet spit16s much more then La7s or ponys. And spit16s are only ~6% of all my kills in last month.
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easy made will make this game suck. Its like playin halo and giveing all the dweebs rockets lauchers and the giving the hardcore guys manchine guns only. Guys will be blowing u up with themselves at close range all day long(the ho) and everytime u got a good position on the field u have 30 rockets comeing at u at once. No matter how good u are this will become old quick. No real gun fights, just u either sneakin up on them and balstin or dodgeing 20 rockets and gettin killed in the process.
This game isnt supposed to be easy, star fox is easy.
ANd i have seen more runners then that. The last time i seen a p51 run was because we shot down all his buys and he was the only one left(if u have 4 on 1 and the stang runs hes smart). La7s and typos are big time runners these days. ANd dont forget the yak, when things go bad(and u have nothin fast enuff to catch him) he breaks out. 190s r always one of the first to dive anyway and run when the fight turns. I dont mind this, if im in a pack of 3 and he sees that hes goin to get jumped let him run, it shows he has a brian in his head. It gets annoyin when its one on one and this happens. I see this as a unoffical win, hes running away. If i have somethin fast enuff to chase i go but if i cant owell.
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bkbandit when you learn how to read other peoples posts I'll add . But you just proved you don't with your latest.
HT could relabel the XVI to the LF IX. The only real diff is the XVI has two .50 cal , and the LF IX has four .303 cal.
Now try reading this slowly and think before you repost.
Also if HT was to perk the XVI ,you'd be here in less than a week wanting to perk the VIII.
Now I'll explain why . They have almost the same performance. So every XVI you see would be a VIII.
Is it starting to sink in yet.
WOW if Mr Mitchel only new how much of a monster he made.
Bronk
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Originally posted by bkbandit
... ANd dont forget the yak, when things go bad(and u have nothin fast enuff to catch him) he breaks out. 190s r always one of the first to dive anyway and run when the fight turns. ...
Yak's big weakness is its small ammo load, a lot of times you need to break off while flying it because you run out. Especially when it's one of "those nights" with the net.
190 should dive away when things go bad. They don't have the turn rate to work to any advantage at low speed. Dive away is what they did. If it's 190 v 190, that's different.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Now I'll explain why . They have almost the same performance. So every XVI you see would be a VIII.
Is it starting to sink in yet.
Bronk
And you would probably see a lot more pilot wounds with the 4 .303s adding to the bullet stream. :t
People think the 16 is 8 versions better than an 8. The only real practical difference is 4 .303s vs. 2 .50s. Oh, and fuel load, it lasts longer in the 8.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
The only real practical difference is 4 .303s vs. 2 .50s.
I have to say I'm going to have to disagree with this summation. I've flown both a bit in HTH, the MA and DA, and the 8 can't hover in the verticle like the 16 does. The e bleeds noticably more quickly in the VIII. Putting your nose down on the XVI and hitting wep is like strapping a rocket on; I've gotten into a mess and landed kills, then escaped in the 16, where I'd have been too slow with no where to go in the 8.
Fly ém both a few times back-to-back and see. I know on paper the stats look very similar, but they fly way way differently. I apologize in advance if my feelings are wrong about the two planes, but to me they're very different birds, and I have to change my maneuvers accordingly.
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I have flown all the different models of spitfire, They have there differeneces but for the most part they are very similar, which isnt a bad thing. BUt the spit16 is a just better. Its way more agile and that wep powers it around turns. I have fought 16v5, 16v8, 16v9,etc. The spit allows u to be very careless and get kills. The biggest advantage u can have when fighting a spit16 is the quality of the spit16 pilot. ALot of them just go straight into a sustained turn until they come around on u or someone else comes into the picture. U can sit there and say look at this chart or that chart but it really doesnt represnet what this plane can do. I doubt that if 16 was perked 8 would become the standard spit. I used to see more spit 5s and seafires(not off cvs, smack in the middle of the map) before spit16 came out. When i started playing tthis game(about 2 weeks beofre spit16 came out) guys told me try one of the spits to learn. I uped off a carrier with it and just stook with the seafire until i tryed the spit16. I didnt noe much but i could get kills in it. It took longer to learn another plane once i flew the 16 and i dont really get out of it until i started brokeing the plane with g's. There is no almost the same, its the same or its not. Similar is not the same. THat spit 16 is better then the spit 8, that doesnt mean that spit 8 sucks, it just means that spit 16 has the edge.
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Originally posted by Bronk
bkbandit when you learn how to read other peoples posts I'll add . But you just proved you don't with your latest.
HT could relabel the XVI to the LF IX. The only real diff is the XVI has two .50 cal , and the LF IX has four .303 cal.
Now try reading this slowly and think before you repost.
Also if HT was to perk the XVI ,you'd be here in less than a week wanting to perk the VIII.
Now I'll explain why . They have almost the same performance. So every XVI you see would be a VIII.
Is it starting to sink in yet.
WOW if Mr Mitchel only new how much of a monster he made.
Bronk
Slight correction -
He could re-label it an LF IXe and there would be NO difference.
Only difference between the XVI and the 1943 LF IXc is the 50s in place of the .303s.
As for the VIII v XVI - Bear in mind the VIII is heavier, 2 extra wing tanks as the XIV, but has a retractible tailwheel, and has a full span wing.
So although they both use a Merlin 66 there will be differences in performance, but it's not much.
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bkbandit,
That "wep that powers it around turns" is exactly the same wep that powers the Spitfire Mk VIII.
Exactly the same.
You do not seem to understand that. The differences you are feeling, other than roll rate, are in your head and not really there.
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Well, according to speed chart giving the 21k FTH in the HTC homepage, the AH XVI is actually a LF IX with Merlin 66. The real XVI had the Merlin 266 ie basicly the same engine as the V-1650-7 which had higher 2nd speed gearing than the Merlin 66, 1st gearing being roughly same. The 2nd FTH should be around 22-23k for the XVI.
gripen
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There was about a 1k difference in FTH between an American Merlin 266 and Rolls Royce Merlin 66.
Its not any faster, nor does it roll faster, or climb faster.
The Merlin 66 makes it's best speed 1k lower than the Merlin 266 (21k vs 22k), but top speed is still the same.
No biggie.
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If its the "same" why arent they being flown. I only see 16s. If they were the same u would see an equal amount of 16s and 8s. U act lie i dont fight this these things. The gun package isnt a factor in pickin between the 8 and 16, both of them rely on the 20mm. If the were so equal in capabilitiy u would see them. I have fought 8 and 16s in h2h, the 16s r a tougher nme, and with the 16s track record we could assume that the 16 pilot isnt as experienced as the 8 pilot. A very few couple of times i have seen different spit fires there were 9s 5s and seafires. This differece isnt in my head, if that was true u would see spit 8s in m/a not just 16s. Ride around m/a and count the spit 16s, 7/10 spits u will see is a spit16.
I guess that we can agree that the corsairs are goin to stay perked, i just dont think its fair that a hog can get a nik or another cannon bird for free when i have to pay for mine, a fly perk cost of 10 to 15 will make the ho bags think twice about riskin there 10 perks on a ho. Make em cheap even 5 perk oints for the hurri typo nik, wont stop hoin all together but it will make the ho less appealing.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
If its the "same" why arent they being flown. I only see 16s. If they were the same u would see an equal amount of 16s and 8s. U act lie i dont fight this these things. The gun package isnt a factor in pickin between the 8 and 16, both of them rely on the 20mm. If the were so equal in capabilitiy u would see them. I have fought 8 and 16s in h2h, the 16s r a tougher nme, and with the 16s track record we could assume that the 16 pilot isnt as experienced as the 8 pilot. A very few couple of times i have seen different spit fires there were 9s 5s and seafires. This differece isnt in my head, if that was true u would see spit 8s in m/a not just 16s. Ride around m/a and count the spit 16s, 7/10 spits u will see is a spit16.
I guess that we can agree that the corsairs are going to stay perked, i just dont think its fair that a hog can get a nik or another cannon bird for free when i have to pay for mine, a fly perk cost of 10 to 15 will make the ho bags think twice about riskin there 10 perks on a ho. Make em cheap even 5 perk oints for the hurri typo nik, wont stop hoin all together but it will make the ho less appealing.
Because people think that the higher the number the better the plane is.
That's human nature, instead of whine try the VIII and the XVI. You will see that the both Mks are quite deadly.
Also if you want to see a truly deadly early Mk check out the Mk. XII.
Also the plane has nothing to do with it Levi can kill most people 1v1 with a val. If ya don't believe check out his post in the freeplayer. The val film is exquisite
Bronk
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Originally posted by bkbandit
If its the "same" why arent they being flown. I only see 16s. If they were the same u would see an equal amount of 16s and 8s. U act lie i dont fight this these things. The gun package isnt a factor in pickin between the 8 and 16, both of them rely on the 20mm. If the were so equal in capabilitiy u would see them. I have fought 8 and 16s in h2h, the 16s r a tougher nme, and with the 16s track record we could assume that the 16 pilot isnt as experienced as the 8 pilot. A very few couple of times i have seen different spit fires there were 9s 5s and seafires. This differece isnt in my head, if that was true u would see spit 8s in m/a not just 16s. Ride around m/a and count the spit 16s, 7/10 spits u will see is a spit16.
I guess that we can agree that the corsairs are goin to stay perked, i just dont think its fair that a hog can get a nik or another cannon bird for free when i have to pay for mine, a fly perk cost of 10 to 15 will make the ho bags think twice about riskin there 10 perks on a ho. Make em cheap even 5 perk oints for the hurri typo nik, wont stop hoin all together but it will make the ho less appealing.
BIG difference is the XVI's roll rate, it's way better than the VIII.
Plus as said XVI is higher than VIII so people assume its a much higher performers.
Not a lot take the IX as it's a high alt bird compared to the XVI and VIII, and the Vb was neutered (1/2 ammo, less boost) compared to the 'old' Vc.
Seafires you usually only see off a CV.
Always said if they unperked the XIV you probably still see more XVI's as for the newbie XVI is higher than XIV, without knowing the XIV is a Griffon Spit.
Your argument of perk all 4 cannon planes doesn't add up. Why perk a mid war Hurri IIc?
Whats next? Any plane that can go faster than 400mph, followed by all planes with a climb rate of 3500fpm or better?
Where does it end?
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The roll rate is what makes the 16 so attractive. Once you add that the Spit16 is pretty much without weaknesses, save for high-speed dive and lack of armor.
What I'd really like to see is what happened if for just one tour the F4U-4 was brought down to 5 perks. I'm betting there'd be only a small impact on what planes get used, other than for more experienced players who don't rely on the overwhelming firepower of quad-Hispanos.
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ALL the spits are great gun platforms. Bronk i have flown all of them. I have flown 9 and 16 back to back agaisnt 109s and 190s. ANd since this thread i mess around with it alittle more. The16 feels so much liter(even with full fuel, and even when i forget to drop my ord). I prefer the gun package on the 9 but the agility is a big thing that comes into play when picking. Yes they are "similar" but a spitfire is a spitfire whether its 5 9 16 etc(only big problem with the mk1 is the engine turns off in the dive). BUt the 16 has an upper hand. If the 8 and 16 were so similar as u say people would fly them more, the 8 has a better gun package then the spit16, 2 solo 50 cals are really useless and on top of that u only have 500 rounds. I have flown the 12 and i like it. It doesnt break under high g as fast as the 16. If its perked guys went be in the cold, they have a stable of very good aircarft waiting, it just wont be point and click. A spit 9 or 12 will still smack a 109 or nik. Bronk i have tryed all of them, the 16 will get away with things that the others will die trying to do. It doesnt mean the other spits are bad it just make 16 pilots more careless and alittle brain dead. U can tell when a guy just got out of a spit16 and is tryin to learn another plane.
That val is a real sleeper, people dont see much of it so they just jump in behind and turn with it, they get slow and lose. U have to fight him like he was a zero. They arent fast but there slow turn rate is something else. Just have to stay fast and a zal or zero cant hurt u. ALot of guys that fight zeros forget that the zero is the slowest plane in the game, these bucnh of guys that forget make those zero guys happy.
F4u 4 wouldnt be used as much as the c if they were both 5 perks. Only the guys that really now what there doin will use it. The hurr is a ho machine period. U would be better of making the d hurri with those aaa guns free then the hurri c. Isnt this the reason they perked c hog? Give me a breeak i dont care is it came out before ww2 started or if it came out a day before it ended. The give credit to the hurri and nik pilots because at least they will fight u, the typo guy will either go for the ho or run, la7 is another one. Litely perk them so u dont have ho machines. 5 perks thats all. The chog is 15 and i pay it and take it out for a fun ride now and then but i dont need to rely on the cannons to take cons down. I go from 6 50s to hispanos and its crazy, i point it at anything and it dies. With all the cannon planes running around(for free) it makes all the other gun packages look like crap. I heard a guy say "the guns on the p47 suck, it dont have cannons like my typo". Cmon, 8 50s knock things out cold, i have sawed cons in half with them(spit 16s dont stand a chance agaisnt a hard snap shot). If they didnt ho everything in site i wouldnt care. BUt i seen too many guys just ho and blow up, its funny but at the same time its stupid.
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I fly the 8 when I don't take the KI. I feel it's a bit more of a pure dogfighter in than the 16. That's probably more of a personnal preference though. Next to the seafire, IMO I feel the 8 is the closest thing to the ol spit5.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
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F4u 4 wouldnt be used as much as the c if they were both 5 perks. Only the guys that really now what there doin will use it.
....
Exactly ... so why not do it.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
ALL the spits are great gun platforms. Bronk i have flown all of them. I have flown 9 and 16 back to back agaisnt 109s and 190s. ANd since this thread i mess around with it alittle more. The16 feels so much liter(even with full fuel, and even when i forget to drop my ord). I prefer the gun package on the 9 but the agility is a big thing that comes into play when picking. Yes they are "similar" but a spitfire is a spitfire whether its 5 9 16 etc(only big problem with the mk1 is the engine turns off in the dive). BUt the 16 has an upper hand. If the 8 and 16 were so similar as u say people would fly them more, the 8 has a better gun package then the spit16, 2 solo 50 cals are really useless and on top of that u only have 500 rounds. I have flown the 12 and i like it. It doesnt break under high g as fast as the 16. If its perked guys went be in the cold, they have a stable of very good aircarft waiting, it just wont be point and click. A spit 9 or 12 will still smack a 109 or nik. Bronk i have tryed all of them, the 16 will get away with things that the others will die trying to do. It doesnt mean the other spits are bad it just make 16 pilots more careless and alittle brain dead. U can tell when a guy just got out of a spit16 and is tryin to learn another plane.
That val is a real sleeper, people dont see much of it so they just jump in behind and turn with it, they get slow and lose. U have to fight him like he was a zero. They arent fast but there slow turn rate is something else. Just have to stay fast and a zal or zero cant hurt u. ALot of guys that fight zeros forget that the zero is the slowest plane in the game, these bucnh of guys that forget make those zero guys happy.
F4u 4 wouldnt be used as much as the c if they were both 5 perks. Only the guys that really now what there doin will use it. The hurr is a ho machine period. U would be better of making the d hurri with those aaa guns free then the hurri c. Isnt this the reason they perked c hog? Give me a breeak i dont care is it came out before ww2 started or if it came out a day before it ended. The give credit to the hurri and nik pilots because at least they will fight u, the typo guy will either go for the ho or run, la7 is another one. Litely perk them so u dont have ho machines. 5 perks thats all. The chog is 15 and i pay it and take it out for a fun ride now and then but i dont need to rely on the cannons to take cons down. I go from 6 50s to hispanos and its crazy, i point it at anything and it dies. With all the cannon planes running around(for free) it makes all the other gun packages look like crap. I heard a guy say "the guns on the p47 suck, it dont have cannons like my typo". Cmon, 8 50s knock things out cold, i have sawed cons in half with them(spit 16s dont stand a chance agaisnt a hard snap shot). If they didnt ho everything in site i wouldnt care. BUt i seen too many guys just ho and blow up, its funny but at the same time its stupid.
First I'm confused - We don't have 12 (XII), but we do have a perked 14 (XIV).
Second - The Hurri IId was an anti tank version, hence the 2x40mms, and is already free.
You can bet that the average pilot is flying something a lot faster than a IIc, but doesn't have the patience to work a '6' shot.
Third - Saying the 4 cannons planes ho, then forgetting so does EVERY other plane also.
How about 2 or 3 tours back some idot tried to ho my IL2 with a Tempest (hee hee), that mean the IL2 should be perked also.
If by your argument you were to perk every hoing plane, we'd have nothing left.
Fianlly - Reason F4U-1C was perked : It accounted for over 20% of the MA kills, I think Spit XVI's are currently around 10%-12%.
In other words you were twice as likely to see a F4U-1C (before perking) than you are to see Spit XVI in the current MA.
Yet you complain about ALL the XVI, imagine twice as many hoing 4C's?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
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If by your argument you were to perk every hoing plane, we'd have nothing left.
No ... we'd have the Val ... which should be perked anyway because it am be teh l33t turning masheen. :D
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Fianlly - Reason F4U-1C was perked : It accounted for over 20% of the MA kills, I think Spit XVI's are currently around 10%-12%.
Actually, less than that. Removing all bombers, vehicles and ships gunns, the Spit XVI accounted for 9.3% of fighter kills in May, the LA-7 8.9%. They also accounted for 9.6% of all fighter deaths, vs 8.0% of the LA-7. The inability to run obviously hampers them vs the LA-7.
Kills and deaths are not the same as sorties, but should be close. People perceive them to be more numberous than they truely are. "Half the planes are spits and the other half LAs" is the complaint I keep hearing, but more than 4 of 5 fighters you see have to be something else according to the numbers.
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Run a comparison on Dok's charts. Honestly, do you all REALLY want to see the F4U-4 at the same perk cost as the 1C?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
First I'm confused - We don't have 12 (XII), but we do have a perked 14 (XIV).
I wanted him to google it . Sorry for the confusion.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Saxman
Run a comparison on Dok's charts. Honestly, do you all REALLY want to see the F4U-4 at the same perk cost as the 1C?
It's still slower than a 109K.
I would be real surprised if a 5-perk 4-Hog made much of a difference in things except to the more experienced players.
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Guaranteed that if you remove the perk outright or lower the cost that much every 1, 1D and PROBABLY the majority of 1C's will be replaced by F4U-4s because everything the other Hogs can do the -4 absolutely WASTES them (the one exception being the hitting power of the 1C's lasers).
And so what if the K-4 is faster? We can go round and round about this (Spixteen out accelerates/climbs, Zeke out turns, blah blah blah yakity shmakity) but the simple truth is that except for the jets there's no one fighter that has such a huge performance advantage over the F4U-4 in ANY category that she can't compensate for it with another. THAT'S what makes her so uber, and why lowering that perk cost is flat-out asking for trouble.
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imop , i would let unperked the F4U-4/C,
cuz:
1. F4U-4 is slow, poor acceleration /under 10k, weak firepower, poor rear visibility , 90% fights are under 10k ,soo if LA7 is unperked , why perk the F4U-4?! Soo what if is fast at high alt?, who's fighting up there @25 000 ft ?
2, C-hog, great guns, but NIKi is better fighter, close firepower and is free, soo if, NIKI/typhoon is unperked, why perk the C-hog!?
imop, i would perk:>
-- Me262--> 150 perks,
--Me163--->60 perks-- BUT . > enable it on more bases, Large A-bases, or Z-bases, cuz are fun to fly, and are lot of large maps where we don't have a chance to fly them long time
--Tempest--->50 perks
Also, give to "2 weeks flyboys" 1-2 free jets bonus, in MA environmet, most of them will crash them anyway, they don't have a chance to make those perks in 2 weeks,
I feel sorry for some of them, crying cuz they can't up certain planes.
I feel somtimes like eating a flufy blueberry pancake, in front of a crying/ hungry kid, but i can't give him some,
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why do people here keep asking for uber planes?
It will give you no advantage since everyone else will have them too. It does give you an advantage if you spend the perks and will be one of the few that fly them.
Eventually, even those who like old rides will give up and roll a 1945 plane just to kill you.
Are you an F4U fan? No you are not, since historic fans usually like to fly the more representative model of their plane. They are also more than happy to use their otherwise useless perks on the uber models.
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Um... What stats on the F4U-4 are YOU looking at?
Top speed on MIL is 350 on the deck, up to ~375 at 10k. On WEP she'll hit 400 at 10k and is within only a few mph of the P-51D throughout most of that range (closer on WEP). In fact, with WEP at 10k she's FASTER than the La-7. Below 10k, yes, the La-7 IS faster, but 375 is still DAMMED respectable and still close to the top in airspeed
Acceleration to 300mph at 500ft alt is only ~2.5 seconds behind the La-7 (to break it down, she only lags by about a second accelerating from 150 to 250). The only SIGNIFICANT advantage the La-7 has in acceleration is from 300-350 mph, (nearly a full 10 seconds) but that's only really an issue if one or the other decides to run (I've had more La-7s run from my Corsair than I've even NEEDED to run from an La in one).
Weak firepower? If the charts are to be believed the .50cal on the F4U-4 aren't THAT far off the La-7's cannon in lethality. However the F4U-4 has TWICE the fire duration, (4x if you only fire by "batteries" and not all six guns at once) and the Ma Deuce is about as close to E-Z mode gunnery as the game gets.
I'll agree with you on rear visibility, however the F4U-4 isn't unique in that respect and this is largely offset by adjusting the views (I WOULD like greater flexibility, tho, like being able to adjust head tilt and not just up/down, left/right, forward/back).
The F4U-4 is perked for GOOD REASON. The La-7 should be too.
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I still think its worth trying (reducing 4-Hog price). I really can't see the typical MA denizen spending perks for a plane without at least 2 cannons. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and HT can just reset the base price. If I'm right then the people who can appreciate the plane can use it without such a steep price.
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Ghi.
You have an "interesting" definition of "poor acceleration".
If the F4U-4 has "poor acceleration" what do the other 95% of the planeset that have poorer acceleration have?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Ghi.
You have an "interesting" definition of "poor acceleration".
If the F4U-4 has "poor acceleration" what do the other 95% of the planeset that have poorer acceleration have?
I had the La7 in my mind for comparation, i didn't look at performance charts, just the way it feels to do the job, maybe K-4 has more "muscles" also under 10k,,but the firepower is porked since gondolas are out,
I 'm upping many times a La7 on a CAPed bases through vulchers net, hit the wep, put the nose on the grass and reaches 300mph+ in few seconds, enough to kill the goon, I would not up, F4U-4 for this kind of job,even it would be free, unperked,
Does the F4u-4 accelerate better than La7 in "hot combat zone under 10k"? i don't think soo, and it feels "heavy" not soo agile like LA7.
I keep my oppinion, if LA7 is free, no reason to have the F4U-4 perked for "reality" of MA fights,
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The 4-Hog accelerates about like a D9. Which ain't as fast as the La7, but hardly what I'd call "poor".
I still think it's at least trying it out at 5 perks. Below 10K it gets outclimbed by both the Spit16 and La7. Below 5K it's slower than the La7. Both the La7 and Spit16 accelerate better at sea level than the -4. And its only turn rate advantage is about a 30-foot smaller turning radius with full flaps.
Most people in the MA won't pay 5 perks for that kind of performance if it doesn't have Hispanos. But dropping the price does allow people to have a perk plane available at a reasonable price that will reward them if they learn to fly the thing.
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Funny thing is a read on a few sites and seen on tv that there was a 4 cannon spitfire(u dont believe me watch the top ten fighters on military channel). When u say nik is better then the corsair that is preference not a fact. I have out acceled niks and stuck to them like glue on turns in my corsair. Yes in a long slow turn fight nik will win, corsair pilot just cant be stupid, plus i have taken hits from the nik cannon and shook them off, i havent seen a nik shake off 50s and the hispanos are a quick end to an nme nik.. Ki84 is a better plane then the nik but again i have come up on them in a corsair(1d) and stuck it to him. Yes i am a corsair fan(i like the pacific theater) and the f4u4 performs where the f4u1d lacks. Accel is great, speed is great and yes its heavy but when u got speed she is very agile. she isnt a easy mode plane(like the p51d) but with some brain power she does very well. Yes i have had plenty of fights above 15k and that high slt speed is great. The 50 cals arent as good as the c's hispanos(wat is) but the 50s take down cons with a well placed snap shot. They are NOT meat head style gunnery and u need to put some time in to make them work right.
YES if nik,typo and la7 are unperked y should i pay for c hog. They should lower the price of f4u4 to within 5 points of c hog. I dont want to unperk c hog i rather perk nik typo and la7 with a very low cost. U can be good in anything if u learn how to fight in it. I have seen fm2s and sbds do some amazing things in the h2h.
When it comes to performance useing that new chart is ok but i wouldnt bet the farm on it. The arent gaugeing alot of areas that effect the fight. T
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The 4-Hog accelerates about like a D9. Which ain't as fast as the La7, but hardly what I'd call "poor".
I still think it's at least trying it out at 5 perks. Below 10K it gets outclimbed by both the Spit16 and La7. Below 5K it's slower than the La7. Both the La7 and Spit16 accelerate better at sea level than the -4. And its only turn rate advantage is about a 30-foot smaller turning radius with full flaps.
Most people in the MA won't pay 5 perks for that kind of performance if it doesn't have Hispanos. But dropping the price does allow people to have a perk plane available at a reasonable price that will reward them if they learn to fly the thing.
I actually think the perk system is kind of broken.. but even at whatever it costs now it isn't exactly prohibitive. Heck, the Spit 5 has Hizookas and an ENY of 35. If you can joust with one Spit 16 / Nik / La7 / P-51 a sortie and 'win', you get 7 perks. More if you manage to bring your crippled steed back home. Whats the F4U4 go for nowadays? 20 points? That is 3 jousts... not even a tournament.
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Originally posted by Urchin
... Whats the F4U4 go for nowadays? 20 points? That is 3 jousts... not even a tournament.
Yea verily.
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Originally posted by ghi
Also, give to "2 weeks flyboys" 1-2 free jets bonus, in MA environmet, most of them will crash them anyway, they don't have a chance to make those perks in 2 weeks,
I feel sorry for some of them, crying cuz they can't up certain planes.
I feel somtimes like eating a flufy blueberry pancake, in front of a crying/ hungry kid, but i can't give him some,
I had around 400ish perks by the end of my first 2 weeks. I upped a few perk planes, including a 262 which I got a few kills in and landed fine. ;)
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Most people in the MA won't pay 5 perks for that kind of performance if it doesn't have Hispanos. But dropping the price does allow people to have a perk plane available at a reasonable price that will reward them if they learn to fly the thing.
20 perks is quite reasonable price for F4U-4.
If somebody want learn to fly hogs there is F4U-1D for free.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
There was about a 1k difference in FTH between an American Merlin 266 and Rolls Royce Merlin 66.
Its not any faster, nor does it roll faster, or climb faster.
The Merlin 66 makes it's best speed 1k lower than the Merlin 266 (21k vs 22k), but top speed is still the same.
No biggie.
My point is just that technically the AH XVI is infact a LF IX. There should be a small difference in top speed due to higher FTH but not much (couple km/h).
gripen
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Just retag it as an LF IX not XVI slight technical glitch solved.
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first off as a dedicated hog pilot I must say some of you are way off.
1) I rarely run across an nmy f4u
2) the f4u4 is outpreformed by the tempest. The tempest can outrun outclimb Outgun and outturn a f4u4. Most other aircraft can either outrun it outgun it outclim it or outturn it but they rarely more then 2 advantages.
3) with the exception of the f4u4 all the other f4u's suck in the exceleration departlment.
4) the 3 most common perk planes I run up against is the spit16 the tempest and the 262.
5) I run across far more la7s then any other aircraft with the p51 as a close second then the n1k2.
there are many solutions. such as
1) Unperk all the prop planes and leave only the jets and tiger perked.
2) Perk all late war fighters, such as the la7 n1k2 ki84 p51d f4u1d and c ect
3) leave the perk system alone.
Unperking the f4u1c will mean most f4u drivers and every one that loves the head on shot will start flying the chog.
Unperking the f4u4 will resualt in most f4u drivers will start flying the f4u4.
my I fly each of the f4u's for a difrent perpose.
If I want to get nastalgic or pick up perk points I fly the f4u1.
If I want to bust buffs I use the f4u1c
If I want to bust tanks or bases I use the f4u1d
If I want to fly fighter suprestion/interception or cap I fly the f4u4.
one good flight in a f4u1 pays for 2 f4u4s.
I hated the idea of the perk system. at the time I thought (and in some ways still do) it only hadcaps newer or less skilled pilots who probably need the uber planes more then the rest of us anyway. I personally beleive the jets should be reserved for scenerios and special events. When the f4u1c (at the time I was mostly flying the f4u1d) was perked I dumped my AH account and went strictly to H2H. I eventually came back about a year later.
There really is no solution to the perk problem now that HTC has opened pandora's box. should the f4u1c be perked ... probably not however unperking it will cuase an increase in it's use and probably cuase alot of hog drivers (not all) that fly the f4u1 and f4u1d to switch to the f4u1c. The f4u4 is perfectly fine as it is. It doesn't cost that much and does outclass alot of aircraft in the game even a few perked planes.
Why do I fly the f4u. Becuase it is my favorite aircraft from wwII. Becuase I used to watch alot of Blacksheep on TV as a kid in the 70's. Becuase it has a wicked look and killer history.
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Originally posted by Mayhem
2) the f4u4 is outpreformed by the tempest. The tempest can outrun outclimb Outgun and outturn a f4u4.
That tempest must be a monster, because f4u-4 can outturn spit5. Well... almost.
And F4U-4 climb far better i believe. Dont even mention about roll.
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Tempest is a dragster, pure and simple. If she gets in a close-quarters turn fight with ANY F4U that Temp is by all rights dead.
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Mayhem,
That is some nice FUD there. Tempest turns better than the F4U-4. :lol Yeah, right.
I have a bridge for sale to anybody that believes that.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Mayhem,
That is some nice FUD there. Tempest turns better than the F4U-4. :lol Yeah, right.
I have a bridge for sale to anybody that believes that.
Unless they have changed the tempest it could outturn a f4u4 thats assuming both pilots know thier planes and how to use thier flaps.
on that note the f4u4 is the worse turner of the f4u's the temp can't out turn the f4u1 1d or 1c but it can out turn a f4u4 if the pilot knows it well enough. Again thats if they haven't changed it.
but if you put a good f4u pilot against a newbi in spit n1k2 and zeke and have them turn fight the f4 will win just based off of skill.
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F4U-4 turns exactly (or almost exactly) like F4U-1D and they both turns better than F4U-1C.
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Mayhem,
So, you wanna buy a bridge? It is a nice one, landmark even, seen in many photos and postcards. It is just over 60 years old, still has a good working lifespan ahead of it.
Selling cheap, only $20,000,000. Tolls will repay that in no time at all.
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i dont see many nme f4us either. For some reason or another my side of the map is mostly la7s spit16s niks typos. If u dont think the f4u4 turns well its because all that speed u got, look at the speedo. That same quick turn u would take with a f4ud is different in the much faster f4u4. AN unperked f4u4 wont attract any new corsair pilots it will only benefit the hardcore f4u guys. The real problem is way can i get a cannon bird that is the fastest plane on the deck for free and not a corsair. I dont think giveing the new pilots uber planes will help them, they wont learn how too fight. I played h2h and started learning p51 and f4u and i as a started picking up on some of the different fighter styles and how to engage certain targets it made me a better player. M/A isnt a noob friendly enviroment and is a place where u have to learn fast to be successful, giveing the new guys uber planes wont teach them the game and will eventually make aces high a stale combat experience. A noob was laughin about it the other day, he flys a la7, all he does is ho vulch and run, have all the new guys coming in and fightin like thisand aces high will suck and the search for a new online combat simulator will follow.
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Originally posted by Mayhem
Unless they have changed the tempest it could outturn a f4u4 thats assuming both pilots know thier planes and how to use thier flaps.
on that note the f4u4 is the worse turner of the f4u's the temp can't out turn the f4u1 1d or 1c but it can out turn a f4u4 if the pilot knows it well enough. Again thats if they haven't changed it.
The current F4U-4 literally will fly circles around a Tempest. Don't even think about turn fighting one if you're in a Tempest. Likewise, the F4U-4 turns better than the F4U-1C. Moreover, it is vastly superior to the other Corsairs in the vertical.
Turn radius / Turn rate in degrees per second
F4U-4: 428 feet / 19.7
Tempest: 518 feet / 18.8
No contest.....
My regards,
Widewing
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What's this about the Ta-152 being "crap"? If you mean "crap" in the sense that it can't compete in the low-altitude turnfights in the MA, then yes, it's crap. But, nothing beats it above 30,000 feet: It has excellent maneuverability up there, it's the fastest prop plane (472mp/h, only surpassed by the Me-262 and Me-163), it has a lot of fuel capacity, its guns package is perfect, and the cockpit visibility is top-notch. It's also the perfect cherry picker: Climb to about 25,000 feet, and drop into a furball. Its 'E' retention is so good, that the 500mp/h+ speed is maintained for about 30 seconds of level flight, more than enough time to get a few kills. Then, you just use your remaining energy to climb back up to 25,000, gain your speed, and dive back down. The tactic works --- I landed five kills in one sortie by doing this, and my 152 was completely untouched.
Roughly the same can be said about the F4U-4, except its guns package isn't as good, and it isn't unmatched at 30,000. However, it *can* compete at the low-altitude MA furballs, making it extremely versatile.
Look, there's a reason these planes are perked. They *are* that good; it just takes the right pilots to really show people what they can do.
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Originally posted by Fruda
What's this about the Ta-152 being "crap"? If you mean "crap" in the sense that it can't compete in the low-altitude turnfights in the MA, then yes, it's crap. But, nothing beats it above 30,000 feet: It has excellent maneuverability up there, it's the fastest prop plane (472mp/h, only surpassed by the Me-262 and Me-163), it has a lot of fuel capacity, its guns package is perfect, and the cockpit visibility is top-notch. It's also the perfect cherry picker: Climb to about 25,000 feet, and drop into a furball. Its 'E' retention is so good, that the 500mp/h+ speed is maintained for about 30 seconds of level flight, more than enough time to get a few kills. Then, you just use your remaining energy to climb back up to 25,000, gain your speed, and dive back down. The tactic works --- I landed five kills in one sortie by doing this, and my 152 was completely untouched.
Roughly the same can be said about the F4U-4, except its guns package isn't as good, and it isn't unmatched at 30,000. However, it *can* compete at the low-altitude MA furballs, making it extremely versatile.
Look, there's a reason these planes are perked. They *are* that good; it just takes the right pilots to really show people what they can do.
For the record: Our P-47N can attain 476 mph at 30,000 feet, way more than the Ta 152H can manage at that height (454 mph). Indeed, the Ta 152 doesn't equal the P-47N's speed until 36,000 feet. In terms of acceleration, at 30k nothing comes close to the P-47N and its climb rate at 30k is superior to the Ta 152 as well (and everything else too). Unfortunately, the Ta 152H is an ultra-high altitude fighter. Therein lies its problem... The bombers were flying at 25,000 feet. At 25k its performance is no better than the P-47D-40. To reach 472 mph, the Ta 152 had to climb above 40,000 feet. That's good speed, but there's absolutely nothing up at 40,000 feet to engage.
Being a niche aircraft, the Ta 152H is of limited use, even for Combat Tour (where its late appearance and limited numbers will certainly restrict its use). Other than for its miniscule numbers, I see no reason to perk the Ta 152H.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Fruda
What's this about the C-202 being "crap"? If you mean "crap" in the sense that it can't compete in the low-altitude turnfights in the MA, then yes, it's crap. But, nothing beats it above 30,000 feet: It has excellent maneuverability up there, it's the fastest prop plane (472mp/h, only surpassed by the Me-262 and Me-163), it has a lot of fuel capacity, its guns package is perfect, and the cockpit visibility is top-notch. It's also the perfect cherry picker: Climb to about 25,000 feet, and drop into a furball. Its 'E' retention is so good, that the 500mp/h+ speed is maintained for about 30 seconds of level flight, more than enough time to get a few kills. Then, you just use your remaining energy to climb back up to 25,000, gain your speed, and dive back down. The tactic works --- I landed five kills in one sortie by doing this, and my 202 was completely untouched.
Look, there's a reason these planes are perked. They *are* that good; it just takes the right pilots to really show people what they can do.
zOMG perk teh 202!
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Originally posted by Widewing
For the record: Our P-47N can attain 476 mph at 30,000 feet, way more than the Ta 152H can manage at that height (454 mph). Indeed, the Ta 152 doesn't equal the P-47N's speed until 36,000 feet. In terms of acceleration, at 30k nothing comes close to the P-47N and its climb rate at 30k is superior to the Ta 152 as well (and everything else too). Unfortunately, the Ta 152H is an ultra-high altitude fighter. Therein lies its problem... The bombers were flying at 25,000 feet. At 25k its performance is no better than the P-47D-40. To reach 472 mph, the Ta 152 had to climb above 40,000 feet. That's good speed, but there's absolutely nothing up at 40,000 feet to engage.
Being a niche aircraft, the Ta 152H is of limited use, even for Combat Tour (where its late appearance and limited numbers will certainly restrict its use). Other than for its miniscule numbers, I see no reason to perk the Ta 152H.
My regards,
Widewing
Aaaah, I completely forgot about the P-47N! Well, the Ta-152 still beats it in the guns department, and I'll still stand by my point in that it's the king of cherry pickers. Is that such a good thing? Well, the furballers whine about cherry picking, but it's a viable tactic (I like furballs as much as anyone, but a bout of cherry picking can be good fun).
And yeah, considering we have an unperked P-47N... Unperk the Ta-152. I mean, at least the P-47N is viable at lower altitudes. The Ta-152 is a deathtrap anywhere below 25,000 feet, really, and even at *that* altitude, it'll still get beaten by the 190D-9.
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And yeah, considering we have an unperked P-47N... Unperk the Ta-152. I mean, at least the P-47N is viable at lower altitudes.
At sea level the P47D40 is superior to the N. It is even slightly faster without WEP. The only thing the N has going for it in MA condition is a monster WEP. You get 5 min of rocket boost (that you really really need) and after that you are a slow, worst climbing plane around.
Even gun lethality seems reduced since in the modified wings, the gund are even farther out. You can almost fit an entire 109 between P47N guns.
Most players don't realize this and take the N as a JABO. The D40 will carry the same load, climb faster and reach the target faster. The N will be better at running away after the drop if it saved his WEP (and climbed like a B17).
Still, I'd like to see the N perked on being a very late war bird. 5 points will be enough to make the Ds the more representing models.
Bozon
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Originally posted by Widewing
The current F4U-4 literally will fly circles around a Tempest. Don't even think about turn fighting one if you're in a Tempest. Likewise, the F4U-4 turns better than the F4U-1C. Moreover, it is vastly superior to the other Corsairs in the vertical.
Turn radius / Turn rate in degrees per second
F4U-4: 428 feet / 19.7
Tempest: 518 feet / 18.8
No contest.....
My regards,
Widewing
I couldnt agree more widewing it is the best plane overall in the planeset
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I still think the cost of the f4u4 is still alittle too much. It has alot of great attributes but nobody wants to pay anything above15 for a plane with no cannons. Those rubber bullets episodes make life alitle harder when it comes to the .50 calibre mgs.
I like the p47d better then the n, the d has somethin that makes life alot easier that the n doesnt have, those dive flaps.
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Originally posted by bozon
At sea level the P47D40 is superior to the N. It is even slightly faster without WEP. The only thing the N has going for it in MA condition is a monster WEP. You get 5 min of rocket boost (that you really really need) and after that you are a slow, worst climbing plane around.
Bozon
This might be do to the fact that the N fuel load is so large.
If you take same time duration not % carried the N should be much better.
Bronk
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I cant let this die for some reason. I just got out of m/a. I fought a f4u4 with a p51d. Couple of turns and he dives and runs, i dived after him and chased him down and had him pressin o for the chute. When u compare the p51d and f4u4 the f4u4 isnt much better(but it is still better). U have a great roll rate with the f4u4, more ammo, u can carry 2 more rockets, and it is a touch faster. The p51d has a better rear view and the flaps come down at a higher speed. BUt in a fight mustang isnt out classed, i figured i wouldnt be able to catch him in a drag race but i did. Yea the fight stood at a meduim to fast speed and i was on him tight but if the fight would have slown down he would have got me.
THe 51d is free along with alot of cannon birds, a free f4u4 wont hurt nothin. I doubt anybody other then the hardcore f4u4 guys would fly it. The cannon crowd wont give it a second look. MAybe the tnb guys would complain but anythin that is faster then them they want killed off. The f4u1c has to stay perked, the cannon crowd has enuff planes.
Im sorry if im dragin this out.
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Originally posted by Bronk
This might be do to the fact that the N fuel load is so large.
If you take same time duration not % carried the N should be much better.
50% in the N is very close to 75% in the D40/25. With that fuel load, the N climbs worse without WEP and is not faster. The full power is 52" MAP in the D25/40 and 54" in the N. With that ratings, the engines produce nearly the same power but the N is heavier and might be slightly draggier due to the larger wings. So it perform worse and eats more gas...
End result is that the N is the worst climbing P47 without WEP - about the same as D11 . About the speed, I need to test it again myself but according to all the tests published in this forum it is also slower.
My only wonder is if the P47N no-wep engine rating is correct. I assume it is unless I find other data.
Bozon
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Originally posted by bkbandit
I cant let this die for some reason. I just got out of m/a. I fought a f4u4 with a p51d. Couple of turns and he dives and runs, i dived after him and chased him down and had him pressin o for the chute. When u compare the p51d and f4u4 the f4u4 isnt much better(but it is still better). U have a great roll rate with the f4u4, more ammo, u can carry 2 more rockets, and it is a touch faster. The p51d has a better rear view and the flaps come down at a higher speed. BUt in a fight mustang isnt out classed, i figured i wouldnt be able to catch him in a drag race but i did. Yea the fight stood at a meduim to fast speed and i was on him tight but if the fight would have slown down he would have got me.
Actually, if the fight had slowed down, you'd have got him worse. The F4U-4 out-turns the P-51D by a significant margin, especially when slow. It has a smaller circle, and gets around that circle faster. In addition, it climbs and accelerates better.
Originally posted by bkbandit
THe 51d is free along with alot of cannon birds, a free f4u4 wont hurt nothin. I doubt anybody other then the hardcore f4u4 guys would fly it. The cannon crowd wont give it a second look. MAybe the tnb guys would complain but anythin that is faster then them they want killed off. The f4u1c has to stay perked, the cannon crowd has enuff planes.
Im sorry if im dragin this out.
I agree with your argument, but your reasoning is flawed, in my opinion. I think quite a few people would end up flying the F4U-4 because it really is quite a nice airplane. I prefer the Spit 14 personally.
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When u the things that makes the f4u1d feel slow is the fact that theres in wind in m/a. a 10mph breeze makes it feel like a animal and the f4u4 is just retarded. THere is WIND in the real word, with wind u could prob take off with a fully loaded corsair(turn the cv into the wind like ur supposed to). Corsair kinda heavy, but she cant be that sluggish. I fought a f4u4 wit my f4u1d today, he was in trouble but then has friend in a 205 came around and i had to get off him. F4u4 is great but its not a point and click spit16, u have to handle with experience and care(i have been into the corsair hardcore for 2 months now and have been very successful, but i still need alot more time). I noe the suggestion to add weather has been posted before but i feel we need it, this game really is startin to feel more and more like a arcade game and less like a sim.
I noe the f4u4 out turns 51d but at high speeds there either even or 51d does better. And for the most part both of these planes r hot rods, u want to be fast in them. THe f4u4 isnt really the plane of choice to do tnb fightin. F4U4 is more agile and a touch faster then 51d but mustang can hang with the f4u4. Not much seperates them. The only bad thing about unperkin the f4u4 would be that f4u1d would be out of a job.
I dont like the p47n, it isnt much of a upgrade. Yes alot more fuel but thats it, it goes faster yes, but it does this half way to the moon at 30k, then then u have to burn out all ur wep to get it. u want a solid high alt speed demon i say 51d. The 47n doesnt have dive flaps, and thats the real reason i dont fly it. when i throw that nose down and dive bomb those dive flaps keep me in control.
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jez the la7 can do 400mph pretty much on the deck. for the type of fightin in m/a the la7 and the spit 16 are the best, i dont care if people want to give the noobs a break, all it creates is horrible pilots that cant kill unless they ho u,jump u with 4 other planes or vulch. Then the game becomes stale. If im level wit a con the first move i always make is the move to avoid the ho. Unless u have a turn and burn plane the la7 will dominate on the deck, why is it free. why am i payin for f4u4. Again i just came out of m/a, i had a seaspit, i was in the thick of it, i got 2 niks and a la7 that was tailin a friendly, i started to leave because i was the only one around so i break out towards the water, i get out there and look back and 4 la7s, give me a break. f4u4 is good(and in real life alot of people say it was better then the 51d, i have read this at many sites) but in the m/a it lacks. Hoers vulchers out number the real good dogfighters. Never Never Never again do i ever want to here runstang because when the heat is on la7s run noein that anybody can catch them.
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Took up an F4U4 tonight for a spin, flew it somewhat smart, somewhat stupid, but as long as I had a room I didn't have a problem. Was able to chase down a 38 on the deck, with his buddies locked on behind me, follow him up for his rope, shoot him down, manage a quick diving reversal, roll around a HO or two, and haul *** outta there. ~20 perks is just fine for that sort of performance, IMO.
You also have to consider the fact that in any Corsair, you've got more options then many planes offer. You can stall fight, you can BnZ, energy, hang on flaps, drop gear and get slow FAST for a reversal or even just scissors, float around slower then just about anything else can go and still be in complete control, yada yada yada. The F4U4 even gives you one more option - the ability to at least run far enough for the five darn spits following the Lala to give up. Once that happens, the Lala dies :)
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The main problem is, that since the F4U-4 is fairly heavily perked (like the Tempest and Tiger, yes?), the enemy knows that it hurts to get killed in it, and you get ganged.
I kid you not, I flew through a fight today in one and 2 spit XVI's a Pony and a pair of LA-7's broke off what they were doing to chase me. It draws attention like a Tempest or 262, without the ability of those two to disengage at will and RTB to save your perkies.
Drop it to a C-Hog price and maybe you wouldn't get the "OH MY Gawd a PERKIED plane, KEEL it!" crowd willing to suicide in order to have a slim chance of costing you points.
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Purpose of perk cost is decreasing numbers of said planes. If loosing that perks will hurt you, may be you must fly another plane instead asking to make it less costly.
F4U-4 worth his perks.
And Tempest cost 2 or 3 times more.
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Originally posted by Warspawn
The main problem is, that since the F4U-4 is fairly heavily perked (like the Tempest and Tiger, yes?), the enemy knows that it hurts to get killed in it, and you get ganged.
I kid you not, I flew through a fight today in one and 2 spit XVI's a Pony and a pair of LA-7's broke off what they were doing to chase me. It draws attention like a Tempest or 262, without the ability of those two to disengage at will and RTB to save your perkies.
Drop it to a C-Hog price and maybe you wouldn't get the "OH MY Gawd a PERKIED plane, KEEL it!" crowd willing to suicide in order to have a slim chance of costing you points.
Yea, you would. The TA-152 still attracts attention like that, and I think it is only a couple points now. It is still worthless, perked or not.
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Originally posted by Oleg
Purpose of perk cost is decreasing numbers of said planes. If loosing that perks will hurt you, may be you must fly another plane instead asking to make it less costly.
F4U-4 worth his perks.
And Tempest cost 2 or 3 times more.
You're right Oleg! I really don't care about the perks; I'm sure most of the folks posting here have a couple thousand banked. Sorry 'bout my mistake there.
Hmm... "purpose of perk cost is decreasing numbers of said planes". Maybe it is time to make it cost a small amount to ride the LA-7 and Spit XVI? I like the idea of a rolling plane set better, with the late-war rides comming into play as the arena map matures; perhaps with the 'losing' side getting their set advanced more quickly.
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Originally posted by Warspawn
The main problem is, that since the F4U-4 is fairly heavily perked (like the Tempest and Tiger, yes?), the enemy knows that it hurts to get killed in it, and you get ganged.
I kid you not, I flew through a fight today in one and 2 spit XVI's a Pony and a pair of LA-7's broke off what they were doing to chase me. It draws attention like a Tempest or 262, without the ability of those two to disengage at will and RTB to save your perkies.
Drop it to a C-Hog price and maybe you wouldn't get the "OH MY Gawd a PERKIED plane, KEEL it!" crowd willing to suicide in order to have a slim chance of costing you points.
hmmmm....i seem to remember this happening almost everytime i bring a goon near bad guys. and goons aren't perked :confused:
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Haha! Money! Perk the goons!
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i was messing wit the la7 for alittle yesterday and jezzzzzzz, the thing is uber. It accels like retarded, it does 400 mph wit the prop almost hittin the deck and it got 3 cannons and the thing is a solid plane that can cant hits, a pilot wit half a brain is hard to stop. Spit 16 isnt uber, its just over used, it accels good and is very agile but it isnt fast, it isnt heavly armoured, the guns suck and high g turns break the wings off. I get spit16s off me all the time by doin that, they dive on me(im already about 10k) from about 12 15k i start to slowly dive to make him commit, get the speeds up and turn to the point of black, guys that follow end up breakin to pieces. u can leave the spit16 alone because u could get around its advanteges, the dam la7 as soon as it starts loseing just turns it on and is out of there at 400mph. If la7 is free the tempest and f4u4 should be free. The la5 is a good plane, its not as good as the la7 but the typhoon is not as good as the tempest. NOBODY is being left out in the cold if the la7 is perked(it should be as much as tempest or f4u4).
Yea goones attract alot of guys because thats the eassyest kill in the game, u should be makeing sure that there is friendly fighters around u(at least 5). The other day i got 2 kills just protectin the c47 from nme fighters, we was at about 11k and cons were pullin straight up and stallin to just try to get a shot at it, i just came in and kept them down, the guy flyin the c47 must have been asleep at the wheel because he drops down and gets swarmed( o well, i tryed). But f4u4 does attract more attention, as soon as it say 4 instead of 1d its like guys become blind and only see u even though there 6 other guys wit u.
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Originally posted by Warspawn
You're right Oleg! I really don't care about the perks; I'm sure most of the folks posting here have a couple thousand banked. Sorry 'bout my mistake there.
Hmm... "purpose of perk cost is decreasing numbers of said planes". Maybe it is time to make it cost a small amount to ride the LA-7 and Spit XVI? I like the idea of a rolling plane set better, with the late-war rides comming into play as the arena map matures; perhaps with the 'losing' side getting their set advanced more quickly.
As much as I agree with perking the La7, it leads to the inevitable -
OK whats the next most used plane - perk that
OK now everyones flying the whatever - perk that
Dam now everyones flying that - perk that
etc etc
'Maybe' it will get perked once the VVS planeset is remodelled and more models added? Who knows.
Hope you realise the XVI isn't a late war performing plane per-se.
It is no faster, or better climbing, or better turning, or better rolling than a clipped 1943 LF IX. Only diff is 50cals instead of .303s.
You could actually give it a .303 option with NO other changes and it would be a 1943 LF IXc.
Someone worked out with its current FTH setting it is actually an LF IXe, not a XVI anyway. XVI's FTH was 1000ft higher.
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la7 is uber, under 10k(where 90% of fight take place) it can dominate. I have messed wit them offline in the t/a and in the m/a. lspit16 has a great roll rate and good turn rate but the guys suck,its lite on armour,its slow, and high g's kill it. The speed and accel of the plane will make up for it if it is fightin somethin that out turns it. All ur other planes have some type of weakness but ur la7 pilots weakness is that half the time he aint payin attention, thats the not the planes fault. Now that i think about it alot of the times i kill la7s its either hes runing and i dive on him, im takeing him off one of my guys, hes above 10k, or he doesnt see me seting up for a attack. spit16 is just annoying but when u approach them with some care u can break him down la7 is way more dangerous. I have flown the la5 around a bit and its great but after the la7 it feel medicore. Im pretty sure the typhoon will have the same affect after the tempest.
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Drag that La-7 into a low-speed turning fight and you WILL see a weakness. It's not a significant one compared to much of the plane set, but most birds the La-7 will out run CAN out turn it.
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only la7 pilots i seen get into a slow turn fight are the dumb ones, these are the ones u just shadow him and get a kill. Stupid pilots shouldnt effect whether a plane is perked or not, the performance if the plane should. F4u4 and tempest is perked because of performance and the la7 should be in the same boat.
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Originally posted by bkbandit
only la7 pilots i seen get into a slow turn fight are the dumb ones, these are the ones u just shadow him and get a kill. Stupid pilots shouldnt effect whether a plane is perked or not, the performance if the plane should. F4u4 and tempest is perked because of performance and the la7 should be in the same boat.
You haven't met shane. He'd show you how capable a La7 is in a dogfight. It can be used in that role very effectively. But as this games been going lately, it's the fastest plane and no one wants to die so it get's takin and only used as a runner plane b/c no one has a clue on how to fight anymore.
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i noe its a sickness goin around. they vulch or gangbang. I have had the best fights in h2h. For some reason there are more guys that noe how to fight there then in the m/a, there too many dweebs runing around. IF the fastest prop plane on the deck la7 is free then f4u4 should be free and tempest should be free.
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The La-7 isn't the fastest prop plane on the deck. The Tempest is.
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ok fine so where does that place la7, in second? i haven seen many tempest around anyway, and on top of that i hav causght a tempest with a seafire, im assumin it takes some time to get up to speed like the f4u, la7 accels really quickly, thats a plane that i have merged wit(while in a spitfire) he will break left wiggle a bit and just accel away.
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If you would take your time and check the stats of the planes instead of referring to your own subjective experiences, you would see that the tempest accelerates even faster than the La-7. Its a MUCH more dangerous plane. BTW, it has currently a K/D rate of 5.9, far ahead of any plane in game...
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tempest is perked and not a common plane. The fact that dweebs fly those "not coming home" type of missions should not affect whether there perked or not. a perked plane should be one of the fastest. but how many times will u get a la7 and a tempest on the deck??