Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on May 18, 2006, 07:05:43 PM
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ok press the power button.
fans start spinning up for about 3 seconds then they power down.
yet one case fan remains lit
Shot or faultypower supply?
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Ok worse problem,
Opened the case, CPU fan had somehow come loose and was laying part on the cpu,part on the motherboard.
reconnected CPU fan.
Powers up fine. But thats all it does. no picture to the monitor.
tried changing out the Video card with a spare I had in another machine.
Still nada.
Nothing. no HD activity, no beeps. nothing but the fans whirring.
CPU shot? MB shot? Both?
Helllllllp!
I hate typing on this laptop!
On the upside. I get to see how well this thing handles the MA
I know it will run in it. we did it the other day.
But tonight Ill really beputting it through its paces.
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My guess would be the CPU fried. Fan came off, got too hot and bye bye!
Just a guess though. Dont suppose you have an old CPU you could plug in to try it?
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If there is a PC shop in your area, I would recommend you bite the bullet & take it in.
If not, are you techie enough to remove the CPU from the mobo & look to see if there is any obvious thermal damage? That's the first thing I would do, get a magnifying glass & some good light & look for any charring, swelling of the heat spreader, cracking, bubbling around the pins etc.
If you don't know what your doing definetly take it to a shop, I'm not implying anything or knocking you at all. It's just that so many things can go wrong from what you described & they can be made worse if you don't know what you're doing.
& I hope you get it back on it's feet.
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Sounds like the CPU fried to me also
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Odds are, you killed the CPU. Probably got the mainboard too.
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I'm not an expert but I wouldn't jump on the bad CPU MBO yet. I built a new pc for my son, it worked for a few days then one day only the case fan came on, nothing else, no beeps, no harddrive lights, nothing. I suspected the power supply because I reused an old PS I had. I bought a new 500watt PS and all is well.
Dred, I would take it in and just have it all tested, may just be bad PS, or could be CPU
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Power supply. If you have another atx, try it.
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I am currently in the process of fixing my moms compaq, the PS went out & took the Hard Drive out with it & it pulled a similar gag on us when it went. After checking the CPU for any obvious damage, definetly check the PS like chairboy & airscrew recomended.
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You definitely want to examine as many options as possible before determining it's dead. Even if you dont have another PS, you can check with a simple volt/amp meter.
Only reason I'd suspect CPU right off is that you found the CPU fan disconnected from the heatsink. I would THINK you'd have had some warning of an overheat, but not always, not if it did it quick enough.
Good luck!
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Pull everything but the CPU and memory and the leads to the PC Speaker/LEDs/Ect. If you don't get any beeps at all, I'd suspect the motherboard is toast.
If you feel handy with the 'puter and you have a good friend with a compatible setup, I'd swap out parts with him to see what works and what doesn't. If not, I'd find somewhere with a good return policy (ie, no restocking fees) and get a motherboard.
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Sounds like the cpu . Most newer pc's will give you some warning if its just the fan that has died or has fell off . They will lockup , or generally be unstable . If it was the Heatsink/fan combo that was half way off the board then the cpu is toast . You can try reseting the cmos (bios ) and reapplying thermal paste to the cpu ,then reseating the Heatsink . Its worth a try . GL
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Before you do anything drastic, unseat the ram, blow on it, and reseat it. Sounds wonky, but it works a lot (most likely the fact that you're reseating the ram).
Check that power supply by trying another instead, I had the EXACT SAME symptoms last year on my Athlon, and that was the culprit.
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bah. the only spare power ssupplies I have are from and old P 500 and an old Asus of around the same speed.
Just looking at the power supplies they dont look anywhere near big enough.
Im thinking if its the CPU I might be better off getting a new and better MB and CPU. (AMD64) Certainly would be faster then getting a cpu for this old socket A machine as those CPUs are no longer easily available around me.
at least the ones that can go in my MB
question is. How much of my old stuff , the memory in particular can I use with a new MB CPU combo?
wont be the machine I wanted to build for myself. But it will be better then highjacking my sons new laptop or my wifes machine.
And it will be better then the machine I was running
Figger right now I can AFFORD to spend around $250
Give or take a few $
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Doesn't matter if it's big enough, try that other power supply. Don't plug in the hard drives and accessories, just look for a video signal. It'll be more than enough power to determine if the other PSU is the problem.
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question. if it were the PS. Why would all the fans spin noproblem? wouldnt they be effected too?
Unfortunately I dont know when it happened.
Set up Adaware to do a scan when I left. came back 8 hours later and saw a light on on the case but nothing running. thinking it had powered itself down I moved the mouse around tapped on the keyboard, and finally tried rebooting.
Nothing. the fans would spin for a few second then it would power down.
opened the case and saw the CPU fan was off.
Reset it. theral paste and all and the powered up. fans started running. but no beeps. no tick tick tick of the HD. nothing.
Monitor said it was getting no signal from the computer so I swapped out the Vid card with one I know works.
Nada. same thing.
But why do the fans spin fine?
Or is that like asking someone whose car wont start if the lights work?
enough power to light the lights but not enough to turn the car over
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Or is that like asking someone whose car wont start if the lights work?
that's pretty accurate.
what you described probably (not absolutely) fried the CPU, that's expensive yes indeed.
count the pins on the PS mobo connector, if you have a 20 pin mobo & a 20 pin PS it will work the same, just zip tie the PS in place or lay it on the bottom of the case, if you have a 24 pin mobo & a 20 pin ps go ahead & give it a try, they sometimes work, if it's a 24 pin PS & a 20 pin mobo your out of luck.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
question. if it were the PS. Why would all the fans spin noproblem? wouldnt they be effected too?
Unfortunately I dont know when it happened.
Set up Adaware to do a scan when I left. came back 8 hours later and saw a light on on the case but nothing running. thinking it had powered itself down I moved the mouse around tapped on the keyboard, and finally tried rebooting.
Nothing. the fans would spin for a few second then it would power down.
opened the case and saw the CPU fan was off.
Reset it. theral paste and all and the powered up. fans started running. but no beeps. no tick tick tick of the HD. nothing.
Monitor said it was getting no signal from the computer so I swapped out the Vid card with one I know works.
Nada. same thing.
But why do the fans spin fine?
Or is that like asking someone whose car wont start if the lights work?
enough power to light the lights but not enough to turn the car over
Because there are more than just one voltage rail. IIRC, the fans are on a 12 volt rail. The CPU doesn't use that one.
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Let me repeat: I had the exact same symptoms last year with a busted power supply.
Please just try the old power supply before you start sticking pins in things and getting yourself shocked. If you leave the HDs, floppy, CD-ROM, etc unplugged, it'll have more than enough juice to at least show you a POST screen.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Doesn't matter if it's big enough, try that other power supply. Don't plug in the hard drives and accessories, just look for a video signal. It'll be more than enough power to determine if the other PSU is the problem.
Nope.
Same as before.
Fans power up fine.
nothing else.
Well now this certainly bites.
what next.
Anyone wanna swap lives for a while till this one picks up again? lol
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Originally posted by Brenjen
that's pretty accurate.
what you described probably (not absolutely) fried the CPU, that's expensive yes indeed.
count the pins on the PS mobo connector, if you have a 20 pin mobo & a 20 pin PS it will work the same, just zip tie the PS in place or lay it on the bottom of the case, if you have a 24 pin mobo & a 20 pin ps go ahead & give it a try, they sometimes work, if it's a 24 pin PS & a 20 pin mobo your out of luck.
Ps fit fine. just didnt work lol
Well at least we ruled out the Ps as the problem
Heh good thing Im a packrat with old computers. (much to my wifes dismay)
I still have my old P100 laying around too.
the old Asus I found and used the memory on my other old machine to triple the amound of memory onthe P500 for my son to use for Homework and AIM till I got him the laptop.
was holding onto it cause I was planning for chits & giggles on rebuilding a machine out of scraps to run some old Dos and Win 3.1 stuff
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ok so it looks like here is where I stand.
Its not the PS. we ruled that out. which means its either the CPU or both the CPU and motherboard.
Now I cant afford to build an entire new machine right now.
extra computer funds already went into the kids laptop.
So I'd like and am going to be forced to cannablise as much of the old system as humanly possible.
I figure as I mentioned before to just give myself a bump in the CPU and MB
to an anthlon 64
The Case. is still usable but it is butt ugly. I can fix that with a can of spray paint lol.
I figure to be able to use the vid, sound,ethernet cards, CD drives. no problem.
My main concerns are the memory and hard drive.
old motherboard is a socket A ASUS A7V333
Questions.
Will the memory from my old system work in the newer motherboards?
What will happen when I boot up with the old hard drive on a new motherboard? orr would I be better off with a new HD too?
And if so, ....well I'll ask when I actually get to that part lol
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if its an amd it may be fried ... cpu / mb
they burn under the cpu also into the mb and damage it too
now if ya lived around the corner from me id loan ya one...
Most smaller pc shops will test your pc for free ... exspecially if its hurt .. its good bizness for them ... sometimes they have a few parts laying around to get ya running fast again too ...
Now Can i intrest you in a misc box of Slot A pent 2's ... 233mhz slow junk :rolleyes:
ps ... check http://seattle.craigslist.org/ for pc's ... oops change it to your city ..
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Got a 2100 Tbred I can send you if you want it.
A7V333 is a ddr board, should work in the new systems.
shamus
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As long as you dont go buying an Intel board that uses DDR2 RAM you should be fine with the memory you have. Assume your video card you have now is a AGP card?
Now, if you need to replace that motherboard, you'd be surprised. Lots of places online still have Socket A motherboards and they are dirt cheap. The problem is the CPU. Its almost as expensive as buying a low end newer one. I'd shop around a bit if I were you and see what kind of prices I could find on each before deciding. I'd also be deciding on my upgrade strategy and how soon you are going to be looking at wanting to upgrade everything anyway.
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AMD CPUs only take about 5 seconds to fry if the fan comes off. It was a common problem about 6+ years ago because it was extremely difficult to fit the fan in place, and if incorrectly fitted the fan would ping off.
The current AMD CPU fans are much easier to fit.
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I thought AMD finally implemented thermal protection in thier CPU.
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We had this happen just a week ago (except it was a retarded teacher who let a kid play with her computer. GRRRRR!) and it was the CPU. We were lucky nothing else fried.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
As long as you dont go buying an Intel board that uses DDR2 RAM you should be fine with the memory you have. Assume your video card you have now is a AGP card?
Now, if you need to replace that motherboard, you'd be surprised. Lots of places online still have Socket A motherboards and they are dirt cheap. The problem is the CPU. Its almost as expensive as buying a low end newer one. I'd shop around a bit if I were you and see what kind of prices I could find on each before deciding. I'd also be deciding on my upgrade strategy and how soon you are going to be looking at wanting to upgrade everything anyway.
Yup Vid card is AGP
just doing a quick scan..real quick
this board any good?
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=332173&pfp=SEARCH (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=332173&pfp=SEARCH)
If memory serves correct. the 939 boards are the way to go
probably wont get it at compusa but a mom & pop shop
(there are a ton of em around here)
future upgrades are something Im taking into consideration
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Originally posted by beet1e
It was a common problem about 6+ years ago because it was extremely difficult to fit the fan in place,
Understatment.
Particularly if your using the bigger better thermaltake CPU fans.
and that was the case with this one.
Had picked up a quieter one because the sound the Tt makes was driving me batty which was tons easier to conncect but tended to collect dust faster around the heatsink and I had to take the fan & heatsink completely off everytime I cleaned out the inside.
so I switched back and just wore my heaphones so I couldnt here it but it drove anyone else who happened to be in the room batty (screw em;) )
Thingis I havent had the fan off of this one in about 5 months. and I've opened this thing to clean it 3-4 times since with no prob.
I tried not to take it off unless I had to simply because its such a PIA to put back on.
damn engineers. As is usually the case I could, off the top of my head think of probably 3-4 easier was to accomplish the same task then that fubarred design lol
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I would want to know why the fan was half off the CPU. What jarred the computer good enough to do that? If it was jarred it is very possible that the mobo is shorting out. A classic symptom of a shorting motherboard is fans running but nothing else.
I would pull the mobo out and inspect it, then try running it outside the case.
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DRED dont worry about your hardrives, theyll retain all info you had on your OS, well unless you screw them up that is......so you should be able to install them with a new mobo and not have to change a thing other than your bios
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I thought AMD finally implemented thermal protection in thier CPU.
you only have protection with the newer 939 cpu's and/or you have to run a program such as the asus probe in the background to protect it ,even some of those dont shut down your pc , they just give a audible warning . depends on mb .
a 32bit athlon/barton without a fan defentally went POP and/or toasted the mb under it .
I use a soft paint brush and compressed air to clean mine .. (ive been know to use the vacumn too "but its not recomended " ) i dont take the fan off ..
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Intel CPU's have had thermal protection since the Northwood series.
I use a leaf blower in the garage to clean out the inside of my cases. Does not take long for a 300MPH gust to bust loose any dust. Cleans the PS out really well too.
Just have to make sure you have all your cables dressed and tied down, and avoid pointing it at fans for too long. They have a tendency to spin up to dangerous levels (i.e. exploding in a bazillion pieces.....trust me on this one). :D
I have since altered the dust-busting to include stops for all the fans. :)
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I thought AMD finally implemented thermal protection in thier CPU.
Have they? I bought an AMD XP2600 for AH2 in 2003. By that time, they'd started to supply the required HSF unit along with the CPU, so at least you knew you were getting the right one, but I still had to mount it myself. Much easier now though - with a black plastic thumb grip on the lever - none of that nonsense about having to force down that sprung arm over the three plastic lugs on the mobo using a screwdriver.
Back around 1999, I don't think the CPUs were supplied with an HSF, and it was up to you to order the correct one!
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Some of the motherboards for the Socket A Athlons had thermal protection, but not the CPU itself. So if your motherboard didnt have it, or you turned it off, you could easily make the CPU go BOOM. I did it to a couple of em. :)
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Originally posted by Vipermann
I would want to know why the fan was half off the CPU. What jarred the computer good enough to do that? If it was jarred it is very possible that the mobo is shorting out. A classic symptom of a shorting motherboard is fans running but nothing else.
I would pull the mobo out and inspect it, then try running it outside the case.
I'd like to know that very same thing.
coulda been the dogs (1 male golden retriever 1 female Chocolate Lab)wrestling around under my desk
Or my daughter. or my wife. As they were the only ones home.
Nothing looked out of place though.
Thinking maybe wife smacked into it while cleaning or something
Why do I think that may be it?
because she didnt do her usual moaning and groaning about my spending the money on a new mother board and CPU.
course she mighta not said anything because she knows by now it would'nt stop me.
but thats never stopped her before LOL
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And the verdict is in
CPU definately fried
brought it in just out of morbid curiousity
Dunno bout the motherboard as I didnt have that checked out.
End result.
MB and CPU upgrade (when life gives ya a lemon. make lemonaid)
Ok I know this stuff isnt super duper. but They are better then what I had
And about all I could afford right now
Socket 939 AMD Anthon 3200+ CPU
Gigabyte K8 Triton series K8NSC-9 ATX socket 939
Price $286.18 including sales tax
should hold me for a while anyway.
think it'll play AH? LOL
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I use a leaf blower in the garage to clean out the inside of my cases. Does not take long for a 300MPH gust to bust loose any dust. Cleans the PS out really well too.
Just have to make sure you have all your cables dressed and tied down, and avoid pointing it at fans for too long. They have a tendency to spin up to dangerous levels (i.e. exploding in a bazillion pieces.....trust me on this one). :D
I have since altered the dust-busting to include stops for all the fans. :)
Shop vac works great too
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well she runs.
Windows wont boot though.
Send me to the screen where I can choose to boot in safe mode
but wont boot in safe mode.
Just keeps comming back to the same screen.
So I set it to boot from CD and it (so far) will let me enter the installation.
So Im guessing Im gonna haveta reformat and re-install windows.
there were a few files I would rather have not lost but nothing critical (anything absolutely critical I burn to CD).
anyone have any other suggestions?
Or is that the best path to take?
but gonna havego do this all later though as I have to go to my daughters dance recital.
goody goody. I get to spend 3 hours at a place watching other peoples kids dance for 2 hours 45 min and my kid for 15.
LOL
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LOL... you had this in the wrong thread for a moment.
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Lots of things can cause the boot to safe mode. Will it go ahead & boot normally if you let it do the countdown itself?
If it will not boot normally, go into the bios & choose default settings & shut down afterward, do not let the PC boot after. That's called a warm boot & the changes may not have taken effect. You might also try unplugging the P/S from the A/C source & remove the mobo batt & leave it out for three or four minutes. That will reset the bios. Put the batt in again & restart the P/C. If it gives you the same run-around & puts you back into the "loop" of not booting, try setting the jumper on your hard drive one of two ways:
if it is on "master" now, move it to "CS"
if it's on "CS" now, move it to "master"
Different mobos require different jumper settings sometimes. It's worth a try & you can always change it back.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
Lots of things can cause the boot to safe mode. Will it go ahead & boot normally if you let it do the countdown itself?
No
What is does is powerdown down entirely and I had to unplug the PS at the back of the machine (not on MB) and plug it back in for it to boot again
only let it count down that one time
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Have you tried changing the jumper setting on the hard drive yet? That may get you going, of course it might not.
Try it & see, it's easy & quick & reversible.
Edit: something just occured to me. The windows OS is tied to the mobo. If you changed the mobo, you'll probably need to re-install windows & call Microslave & beg them to allow registering on the new mobo. It will entail lying to them probably, I have never had to swap mobo's without installing a new OS so I don't know for certain how the registration will work. You can read about the problem of re-registering a pre-registered copy of windows in their newsgroup forums...big to do about what constitutes a "new" or "different" PC. Microslave seems to link it to the mobo though.
Sorry I can't be of more assistance on that particular issue except to maybe shoot you a few links to discussions.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
Have you tried changing the jumper setting on the hard drive yet? That may get you going, of course it might not.
Try it & see, it's easy & quick & reversible.
Edit: something just occured to me. The windows OS is tied to the mobo. If you changed the mobo, you'll probably need to re-install windows & call Microslave & beg them to allow registering on the new mobo. It will entail lying to them probably, I have never had to swap mobo's without installing a new OS so I don't know for certain how the registration will work. You can read about the problem of re-registering a pre-registered copy of windows in their newsgroup forums...big to do about what constitutes a "new" or "different" PC. Microslave seems to link it to the mobo though.
Sorry I can't be of more assistance on that particular issue except to maybe shoot you a few links to discussions.
Actually its up and running as we speak. in fact Im on it now.
Yup OS was the prob.
I booted from the CDrom and Windows Upgrade I had from when I installed XP on the machine I built for my wife
It has a "Repair" option which I selected so I didnt have to do a full install and I didnt loose any of the files I had.
Only took about 45 min too.
Still had to register with microsoft
but beleive it or not I did it over the phone and it was a snap
Just required me speaking the numbers the software gave me into their automated system.
The the same system gave me a set of numbers to type in.
No questions asked, no excuses made up. Was easy as pie
My main concern is that windows on this machine wasnt registered to me but from the Buddy of mine I got it from.
turned out to not be a worry at all.
the worst thing about the whole thing was I had to keep telling the kids to shut up while I was trying to pay attention to the numbers the autosytem was telling me.
Other then that was no problem at all.
Still have some tweaking to do and drivers to install and update as the repair removed a great deal of them. But. this is my first real test drive and so far so good.
Nice and quiet too.
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Congrats man, I'm glad you got it hammered out. I knew you would have to call from what I had read, but as I stated, I had never done it, I'm happy to hear it was simple & you didn't lose any files on the repair install.
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As you can see from my above post Im up and running and starting to put on the finishing touches now.
I want to thank everyone for their assistance
Shamus thak you for the offer.
and to everyone your help is greatly appreciated.
You guys are the best.
Tell ya what. If their other boards are like the one I used
(Gigabyte K8 Triton series K8NSC-9 ATX socket 939)
This was a very easy Mother board to set up.
Nary a problem (knock on wood)
Basically I have now build my second computer.
I used all the old parts including the case But I literally took it apart down to the last screw in the case. I even took all the fans out
Gave everything a good cleaning and put it all back together again.
so far so good.
Little more farting around with it like I said and I'll be good to go probably 100 % sometime tomorrow
Thanks again
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cool glad ya saved most of it ..
And No you cant add the blown up parts to my "closet of pc hell" :D
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
cool glad ya saved most of it ..
And No you cant add the blown up parts to my "closet of pc hell" :D
Ohhh mannn. But they will get lonely!
LOL actually All I know for sure is the CPU was fried.
Gonna bring the motherboard in and have that checked.
If it still works I should be able to pick up a Socket A CPU pretty cheap and I'll hook it up for my daughter inasmuch as for what few games she plays and the stuff she does Doesnt require a faster processor or the best
Or to run old Dos/Won3.1 stuff I miss like I was gonna do with the P500
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lol ...
ya know how they have the neiboorhood " leave your junk on the street day "
Well up here in the Seattle area its "Leave your old pc on the street day"
I'll keep my eyes out for ya if you want (i just gave away 2 850mhz tbirds i resurrected to needy kids ) i'm really getting tired of all the slot A 233 pents though .. i must have 5 of those in my "closet of pc hell" right now ,junky dell stuff .
those 800's make great kids pc's my 5 year old loves his .. not to slow for a sometimes impaitent youngster.
the socket A semprons are really cheap but ......... they dont always work very well on most of the mainboards and they ussually need a bios flash (i hate flashing bios) there a dirivitive of the stupid applebred cpu.. that IM Roo Opinion is a real pos.