Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on May 19, 2006, 08:45:58 AM
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http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=11fbf4a8-282a-4d18-954f-546709b1240f&k=32073
Iran eyes badges for Jews
Law would require non-Muslim insignia
Chris Wattie
National Post
Friday, May 19, 2006
Human rights groups are raising alarms over a new law passed by the Iranian parliament that would require the country's Jews and Christians to wear coloured badges to identify them and other religious minorities as non-Muslims.
"This is reminiscent of the Holocaust," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, the dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. "Iran is moving closer and closer to the ideology of the Nazis."
Iranian expatriates living in Canada yesterday confirmed reports that the Iranian parliament, called the Islamic Majlis, passed a law this week setting a dress code for all Iranians, requiring them to wear almost identical "standard Islamic garments."
The law, which must still be approved by Iran's "Supreme Guide" Ali Khamenehi before being put into effect, also establishes special insignia to be worn by non-Muslims.
Iran's roughly 25,000 Jews would have to sew a yellow strip of cloth on the front of their clothes, while Christians would wear red badges and Zoroastrians would be forced to wear blue cloth.
"There's no reason to believe they won't pass this," said Rabbi Hier. "It will certainly pass unless there's some sort of international outcry over this."
Bernie Farber, the chief executive of the Canadian Jewish Congress, said he was "stunned" by the measure. "We thought this had gone the way of the dodo bird, but clearly in Iran everything old and bad is new again," he said. "It's state-sponsored religious discrimination."
Ali Behroozian, an Iranian exile living in Toronto, said the law could come into force as early as next year.
It would make religious minorities immediately identifiable and allow Muslims to avoid contact with non-Muslims.
Mr. Behroozian said it will make life even more difficult for Iran's small pockets of Jewish, Christian and other religious minorities -- the country is overwhelmingly Shi'ite Muslim. "They have all been persecuted for a while, but these new dress rules are going to make things worse for them," he said.
The new law was drafted two years ago, but was stuck in the Iranian parliament until recently when it was revived at the behest of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
A spokesman for the Iranian Embassy in Ottawa refused to comment on the measures. "This is nothing to do with anything here," said a press secretary who identified himself as Mr. Gharmani.
"We are not here to answer such questions."
The Simon Wiesenthal Centre has written to Kofi Annan, the Secretary-General of the United Nations, protesting the Iranian law and calling on the international community to bring pressure on Iran to drop the measure.
"The world should not ignore this," said Rabbi Hier. "The world ignored Hitler for many years -- he was dismissed as a demagogue, they said he'd never come to power -- and we were all wrong."
Mr. Farber said Canada and other nations should take action to isolate Mr. Ahmadinejad in light of the new law, which he called "chilling," and his previous string of anti-Semitic statements.
"There are some very frightening parallels here," he said. "It's time to start considering how we're going to deal with this person."
Mr. Ahmadinejad has repeatedly described the Holocaust as a myth and earlier this year announced Iran would host a conference to re-examine the history of the Nazis' "Final Solution."
He has caused international outrage by publicly calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map."
Iran does not yet have nuclear weapons, but Tehran believed by Western nations to be developing its own nuclear military capability, in defiance of international protocols and peace treaties.
The United States, France and Israel accuse Iran of using a civilian nuclear program to secretly build a weapon. Iran denies this, saying its program is confined to generating electricity.
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Aye... that is f*** up alright.
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Go ahead, Iran.... make it easy for Israel to provide you with their version of a 'final solution'. Unlike the rest of the world, they won't dither about 'collateral damage' and they'll trade the lives of the jews in Iran for a glowing crater to protect the future of their nation without a seconds hesitation.
There is not much i like about the way israel treats us... but I do wholly enjoy their foriegn policy when they see a threat to their nation.
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How far will Iran go in their west bashing and button pushing? I suspect this badge thing is really all about button pushing but it could easily get out of control. Let a mob run loose killing some of those wearing these badges and it will likely be the end of the current regime.
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This is a great example of why religion needs to stay out of the government.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
This is a great example of why religion needs to stay out of the government.
Perhaps the dumbest thing you've ever said. You're on a streak this month.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Perhaps the dumbest thing you've ever said. You're on a streak this month.
Wrong again mini.
I've said much dumber things than this, but maybe you could enlighten us on why you think I'm wrong here.
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A country that denies the holocaust is following in the very footsteps of the nazis.
This is not good.
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So, Mini...
I'd like to understand your view a little better.
You think religion SHOULD be running our government? You think you should have no say in anything, and only clerics are qualified to decide how you should think and act?
You do realize that a theocracy does not actually involve things like voting, right?
Which is the only right and proper religion to run our country, do you think?
What is your stance on Separation of Church and State?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Wrong again mini.
I've said much dumber things than this, but maybe you could enlighten us on why you think I'm wrong here.
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Human rights groups are raising alarms over a new law passed by the Iranian parliament that would require the country's Jews and Christians to wear coloured badges to identify them and other religious minorities as non-Muslims.
It contradicts all current Iranian religious/ethnic policy. IMHO it's a lie. I've seen enough bull**** from "human-rights groups", they are strongly politically-engaged with their sponsors. Just look at their reports about Russian Federation.
I hope Babek will comment on this.
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thanks for the post even though it's bad news. we've seen this before haven't we?
hap
also, regarding mini's post and the retort "that's why religion shouldn't run the government" or words to that effect. 1st thing i thought of when i saw rip's post was nazi germany.
not known for their religiosity.
hap
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I give this whole situation about half a month before a fight breaks out and Iran's government realizes that they just stepped into a s*** pond.
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Originally posted by Mini D
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
First of all your lack of knowledge of Iranian history is showing like the crack of your bellybutton when you try to bend over for another beer. Iran was basically ruled by BP until they attempted to be democratic and all.... that was squashed by the CIA back in the 50's. Maybe you can pull some other facts outta your nether region later on.
This new Iranian law is all about power corrupting. In this case it is the power of religion. Religion has a stranglehold on that government and it MUST act accordingly. It still stands as a great example of religion in government run amock.
"Sure" you'll probably say after you drop a few more bombs on the discourse. But it is about power not religion (like Hitler not like The Ayatolla). But the power in this case comes from religion... not from an individual dictator or even some atheistic dogma like Communism or National Socialism. So you can't separate them, and you are wrong once again.
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What is this with those small and bearded guys?
Small+bearded=It's the jews, so tag'em.
Not a good idea if the tagged one has a nuke in his pocket or what?
Anyway, seriously, Iran is now toying with the western world because Iraq is basically a screw-up. They belive there is going to be no more action because of public opinion in the west so they are ready to go quite far in their game. Well, it might work for a while, but carry on like this and there will be no sympathy from the west.
The Nazis held one theory quite high. Hitler himself may have been the author of that one. ok:
"A democratic nation will never be able to fight a hard war. The military will not be hard enough" (Very much from memory so forgive me, but the meaning is on spot).
He proved wrong. And he had to swallow this the hard way.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
First of all your lack of knowledge of Iranian history is showing like the crack of your bellybutton when you try to bend over for another beer. Iran was basically ruled by BP until they attempted to be democratic and all.... that was squashed by the CIA back in the 50's. Maybe you can pull some other facts outta your nether region later on.
This new Iranian law is all about power corrupting. In this case it is the power of religion. Religion has a stranglehold on that government and it MUST act accordingly. It still stands as a great example of religion in government run amock.
"Sure" you'll probably say after you drop a few more bombs on the discourse. But it is about power not religion (like Hitler not like The Ayatolla). But the power in this case comes from religion... not from an individual dictator or even some atheistic dogma like Communism or National Socialism. So you can't separate them, and you are wrong once again.
Why be so general? It is one specific religion in the case of Iran and so many other theocracies. Please give me an example of a christian theocracy and we'll compare individual liberties.
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The Nazis held one theory quite high. Hitler himself may have been the author of that one. ok:
"A democratic nation will never be able to fight a hard war. The military will not be hard enough" (Very much from memory so forgive me, but the meaning is on spot).
He proved wrong. And he had to swallow this the hard way.
and he was almost correct, angus. The British slogged on for nearly two years alone while a pacifist and isolationist america agreed it wanted no part of another european war.
It took the japanese attack on pearl harbor to get FDR the green light.. and even then he would have been forced to deal with japan first had not Hitler declared war on America in support of their treaty with japan.
Since then, I've seen america repeatedly again refuse to accept a 'war footing' when it opposed a foreign power. We're now 5 vears into the current 'War'.. and we have in no way adopted a 'war' mentality or footing on the home front.
And this one will end with either a stalemate or withdrawl, just like all our other wars since WWII.
I despise us, sometimes. The moniker of 'weak willed democracy' is not un-fitting.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
First of all your lack of knowledge of Iranian history is showing like the crack of your bellybutton when you try to bend over for another beer. Iran was basically ruled by BP until they attempted to be democratic and all.... that was squashed by the CIA back in the 50's. Maybe you can pull some other facts outta your nether region later on.
OK... 60 years. I think you're forgetting just how long ago that is. The shah was as secular as it gets... you tell me who was worse. I'm sure you'll get arguments from alot of people on that one.This new Iranian law is all about power corrupting. In this case it is the power of religion. Religion has a stranglehold on that government and it MUST act accordingly. It still stands as a great example of religion in government run amock.
And this is different from the shah in what way? Oh... now it's under the guise of religion so it's an example of the follies of religion... though it was the same before a religious sect took over and will be the same after the next overthrow. Religion is not the problem here. It's just something that rubs you the wrong way so you pretend it is."Sure" you'll probably say after you drop a few more bombs on the discourse. But it is about power not religion (like Hitler not like The Ayatolla). But the power in this case comes from religion... not from an individual dictator or even some atheistic dogma like Communism or National Socialism. So you can't separate them, and you are wrong once again.
The power comes from the fact that they are in control and had the means to get it. Once again, religion isn't the problem here. The fact that these people are straying so far from the cores of Islam highlight that. You are mistaking the actions of men for the philosophy of religion. You are absolutely wrong when you do that.
You go to the next level, revealingly so, when you say there's no place for religion in government. You do realize that statement is pretty much in line with the Nazis, Communists and the people you're using as "proof" of your statement? Maybe we could just make anyone religious wear a stripe on their shirt so we know not to let them into any position of power. Yes... that's the only sure way to keep religion separate from government.
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Ah but the crux of this issue is NOT the identification of Jews or Christians in Iran. It is the fact that the laws must follow the religion (ordering "muslim" clothing) and the only way for the government of Iran to stay true to its religion and still try to allow some sort of religious freedom (to wear what you want) is to implement this stupid rule. It is all about trying to balance democratic rule with a theocratic power base. It just don't work.
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:huh
hap
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There are conflicting reports on this.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=6626a0fa-99de-4f1e-aebe-bb91af82abb3
Could it be that the same people who declaired that the Iraqi's were pulling babies out of incubators and tossing them on the floor and left to die are the ones delivering this 'story'?
One things for sure, who ever 'they' are, their message will have their belivers in the audience and nothing, not even the true facts, will convience them that the propoganda war against Iran is in full swing.
As Yogi Barra once said, 'It's like deja vu, all over again'.
edit to add linky
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Ah but the crux of this issue is NOT the identification of Jews or Christians in Iran. It is the fact that the laws must follow the religion (ordering "muslim" clothing) and the only way for the government of Iran to stay true to its religion and still try to allow some sort of religious freedom (to wear what you want) is to implement this stupid rule. It is all about trying to balance democratic rule with a theocratic power base. It just don't work.
You're an awfully back and forth *****... aren't you?
The crux is that a group of people are in control of the country, not the government. There is no dillution of power, no checks, no ballances. Any government based on these priniciples will run the inherant risks of the corruption brought on by power.
For some reason, you seem to think religion causes this. I think you're wrong and I believe history proves that.
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Originally posted by Angus
The Nazis held one theory quite high. Hitler himself may have been the author of that one. ok:
"A democratic nation will never be able to fight a hard war. The military will not be hard enough" (Very much from memory so forgive me, but the meaning is on spot).
He proved wrong. And he had to swallow this the hard way.
Except most of their fightning was against russians, who weren't democratic.
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Wha?
It's the people in power that are the problem, not the religion? Even though the religion is the basis for that power? It is the lack of checks and balances that are the problem? Not the fact that religion HAS NO checks and balances.
You're confused.
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Whenever a government tries to pass a law with direct references to religion we have a problem.
"The law mandates the government to make sure that all Iranians wear "standard Islamic garments" designed to remove ethnic and class distinctions reflected in clothing, and to eliminate "the influence of the infidel" on the way Iranians, especially, the young dress. It also envisages separate dress codes for religious minorities, Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians, who will have to adopt distinct colour schemes to make them identifiable in public. The new codes would enable Muslims to easily recognize non-Muslims so that they can avoid shaking hands with them by mistake, and thus becoming najis (unclean)."
Does anyone else find this disturbing????????
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I'm betting this story is bogus. Any takers?
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Aren't we (the U.S.) already fighting Iran? I thought most of the insurgents in Iraq were Iranian.
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The dress code program being discussed in parliament has no relation to religious minorities. These reports are a flat out lie,” says Iranian lawmaker Imad Efrog, who proposed the “National Uniform Law.”
On Friday the Canadian Newspaper National Post reported that Jews would have to wear yellow armbands, based on the claims of Iranian expatriates living in Canada. Shortly after the article was printed, the newspaper backed off from the report and published a second article expressing reservations about the report’s credibility. However, the flames were already ignited as the story quickly spread around world news media.
Source (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3252934,00.html)
IRAN'S only Jewish MP strongly denied reports in a Canadian newspaper overnight that Iran may force non-Muslims to wear coloured badges in public so they can be identified... "This report is a complete fabrication and is totally false," Maurice Motammed said in Tehran. "It is a lie, and the people who invented it wanted to make political gain" by doing so.
Source (http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,19196947%255E1702,00.html)
Looks like you can file this one in the same place as the Kuwati incubator story, mobile Iraqi WMD labs, mincing machines in Iraqi jails, Iraqi WMD being flown to Syria etc etc.
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I believe in "Short Cuts" if Iran wants Nukes and the ability to build them, then why don't we support them? I mean we can give them one or two.. from 30,000 feet in the early morning hours as they put on their "traditional Islamic Clothes".
I'm getting so frikken tired of the crap the USA is going thru at the time. Toss the UN outta the US... send them to France or Germany. Let Europe foot the bill. UN is soo worthless. Name the last thing that the UN did good? Yeah I thought so.
Instead of half stepping here we should just look at it as it is! Welcome to WWIII. This is not a single War it's Global. You Libs need to pull yer heads out and realize it's real. Or do you wait until it knocks on your back door to make it personal?
Never pet a Rabid Dog. You put them down.
Mac
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Originally posted by midnight Target
It's the people in power that are the problem, not the religion? Even though the religion is the basis for that power? It is the lack of checks and balances that are the problem? Not the fact that religion HAS NO checks and balances.
The "basis" for that power? What was the basis for the shah's power? How much differently did he handle things?
You make it sound as if these things would be different in Iran if it weren't the religous in charge. How much different was it in Iraq? That was a secular government. Where the people better off? Where the individual religions better off? Did the nation want to see Israel destroyed? Come now MT... it's only the religous that want this... right? I mean, it's all about religion, right?
Sheesh.. you have such a bad case of "it must be religion" tunnel vission that you completely ignore everything else actually HOPING that's the real problem. Talk about confused.
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"Jewish MP denies Iran badge plan
From correspondents in Tehran
20may06
IRAN'S only Jewish MP strongly denied reports in a Canadian newspaper overnight that Iran may force non-Muslims to wear coloured badges in public so they can be identified.
"This report is a complete fabrication and is totally false," Maurice Motammed said in Tehran. "It is a lie, and the people who invented it wanted to make political gain" by doing so.
The National Post newspaper quoted human rights groups as saying that Iran's parliament passed a law this week setting a public dress code and requiring non-Muslims to wear special insignia.
Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians would be forced to wear a yellow, red or blue strip of cloth, respectively, on the front of their clothes, it said.
Mr Motammed said he had been present in parliament when a bill to promote "an Iranian and Islamic style of dress for women" was voted. "In the law, there is no mention of religious minorities," he added.
MPs representing Iran's Jewish, Christian and Zoroastrian minorities sit on all parliamentary committees, particularly the cultural one, he said."
http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,19196947%255E1702,00.html
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Aren't we (the U.S.) already fighting Iran? I thought most of the insurgents in Iraq were Iranian.
Last numbers I saw were that well over 90% of insurgents were Iraqi.
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Zieg Heil. Iran is gonna become the 4th reich.
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It looks like a lot don't even make the effort to read the whole thread before posting so...
HELLLLLLO all of U 'special' people...this story looks like bogus.... You may de-knot your panties now... or at least wait to see if it is confirmed before carrying on
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Originally posted by deSelys
It looks like a lot don't even make the effort to read the whole thread before posting so...
HELLLLLLO all of U 'special' people...this story looks like bogus.... You may de-knot your panties now... or at least wait to see if it is confirmed before carrying on
From what I'm reading Iran says they are indeed looking at appropriate and required dress for muslims but not requiring other identifying dress for non-muslims. Of course we can without doubt trust everything said coming out of Tehran. If they allow non-muslims to dress however they like including the garb worn by muslims then it's a non-issue. Otherwise, they may as well require bright yellow badges.
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Sheeesh, Lukster, one source is jewish! Do you believe in a secret alliance between jewsed and moslems? I'm not saying that it is per se 100% reliable, but it brings a reasonable doubt to the original press report.
... Of course we can without doubt trust everything said coming out of Tehran....
With this reasoning of yours, no need to collect intelligence, you just have to imagine the worst case scenario... Oh wait, that's precisely what you did about Iraq!
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Originally posted by deSelys
Sheeesh, Lukster, one source is jewish! Do you believe in a secret alliance between jewsed and moslems? I'm not saying that it is per se 100% reliable, but it brings a reasonable doubt to the original press report.
With this reasoning of yours, no need to collect intelligence, you just have to imagine the worst case scenario... Oh wait, that's precisely what you did about Iraq!
My source for what I posted was from Iran and no where else. Of course we may not even be able to trust their lies about their truth about their lies.
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I make it a point not to trust the press from any country because the main thing they want is rateings, and they do whatever it takes to get them. But it wouldn't put it past any country that wants Isreal "wiped off the map" to do something like that.
Just remember the evil one wil have the blue turbin on :) ( according to the dead guy that made all the predictions)
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OMG..... THE STORY.... like folks here have already said.... AINT TRUE.
It's like freakin' PsyOps directed at foreign countries getting lapped up by their own citizens and regurgitated. What a joke. I'm not sure if it qualifies as irony, but it's something like that.
(ps... If Ripsnort posts it, then you should know better by now.)