Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on May 20, 2006, 12:34:38 PM
-
A new car called the Loremo was introduced at the Geneva motor show, where it proved to be a huge hit. It is claimed that the car can achieve 155mph but still achieve 186mpg. Article here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-2066293.html The article is dated March 03, 2006 - and I must admit I did check to see that is wasn't dated April 01!
See what you think. Do you think this car could be popular where you live? The article extends over two pages. Be sure to read both. "Tobias thinks that car owners are ready to get over their own prejudices. “Seven or eight years ago there were no SUVs. Today every mother is told that she can’t get the kids to school unless she drives a tractor. And yet 80 per cent of SUVs are single occupancy."
;)
-
I went out of my way and deeper into my pocket to make sure my loved ones drive a vehicle that has a chance of surviving a t-bone accident with an SUV.
I'd put 'em in Abrams tanks and gladly pay the fuel costs if i could.
Anybody that puts their loved ones into an econo-box is playing the worst kind of roulette...
... I await with intrest the development of the car in Europe. I suspect there will never be an american version as I can't see how it could possibly pass the saftey standards as designed.
-
Decent idea, but the car is pretty much useless. It'd be unable to carry anything, tow anything, or do anything but get you from point a to b.
So why would I buy it then?
-
First thing I thought was how I could add a rollcage.. what's that saying?
"Fast, cheap, reliable."
-
It weighs roughly 1000 pounds. That immediately renders it totally unsafe as a vehicle and little better than a deathtrap. I suppose it's better than a motorcycle.
On the other hand, it's potentially useful as a technology demonstrator. I'm all for developing new technology, because while it might start out in a useless or undesireable form, further improvements may result in a truly road-worthy car. The Ford Model T isn't really road worthy by today's standards, either, but it was an important step in technological progression.
Unfortunately, the article mentions little about the technology. It simply goes on and on about the designer. The first thing I want to see is whether this car actually works as well as advertised--with a 180 MPG claim (british gallons I assume), it's up to them to prove it.
J_A_B
-
Nice ride. Light weight is the way to go.
-
Originally posted by J_A_B
It weighs roughly 1000 pounds. That immediately renders it totally unsafe as a vehicle and little better than a deathtrap.
Bullcrap. Weight doesn't equal safety. A lightweight car can be much better at crash tests than juggernauts, it is all in the design and the material used (agreed, R&D and modern lightweight materials aren't cheap).
My grandfather died in 1969 in a 1.2 ton Volvo Amazone that was designed like a tank. He went head-on into a less than 1 ton Opel. The Opel driver lived.
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Decent idea, but the car is pretty much useless. It'd be unable to carry anything, tow anything, or do anything but get you from point a to b.
So why would I buy it then?
IF this thing is as cheap as they say and it gets that good of MPG then the savings of using it as a commuter car to get to and from work would probably make the payment for you. That way I can leave my truck at home and use that for hauling and what not. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, especially if you have more than an hour one way commute per day.
-
With 0-60 being 20 and 9 seconds for the standard/GT respectively.
It would probably not sell in the US market.
Just my opinion.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Bronk
With 0-60 being 20 and 9 seconds for the standard/GT respectively.
It would probably not sell in the US market.
Just my opinion.
Bronk
What does a Geo metro or a stock civic (4cyl) get?
If I bought this as my comuter car i'd care less what the 0-60 was on it.
-
"My grandfather died in 1969 in a 1.2 ton Volvo Amazone that was designed like a tank. He went head-on into a less than 1 ton Opel. The Opel driver lived."
1.2 tons?
J_A_B
-
i'm not allowed to drive at 155mph.
------------------------------------------
small cars are death traps?
i have been driving small cars for many years and the only time i get hit is when the car is parked in a parking lot. ( probably by some 3 ton "safe" car.)
it's not the car, it's the driver.
-
I like the analogy of a pencil. It's hard to smash lenghtwise so the steel gurder Idea sounds like a winner. I'd like to see some actual tests though.
The market is ripe though for a small, safe, affordable, commuter car that gets oustanding fuel economy. If one could develop and market such an idea in the US they'd make a fortune. I could give two craps about luxury as long as it is upgradable with aftermarket components.
-
A 40mph crosswind gust will fling a little 1000 lb car doing 60 mph off the road like a potato chip flicked by a sneeze.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
A 40mph crosswind gust will fling a little 1000 lb car doing 60 mph off the road like a potato chip flicked by a sneeze.
It'll do the same to a jeep doing 60. Trust me I've been there. The sad part is the Jeep gets 13mpg.
(edit: no lugnut comments required sir...they've all been replace.)
-
LOL!
BTW, a 97-2001 Jeep Cherokee weighs about 3100 pounds. A Jeep Grand Cherokee.. 4,100.
;)
-
It's a nice idea, but I'd prefer something that was comfortable, got 40-50MPG, and doesn't result in me becoming a stain on the road if I meet up with a pickup...or hell, a heavy car for that matter.
-
the goofy thing is a 4 wheeled motorcycle with a wrap around full body helmet.. and seatbelts.
Laz will have a field day with this... ;)
-
if i could find a motorcycle that would keep the rain and cold off me and carry a case of beer i would buy it.
-
What is cost for maintenance?
-
john9001 wrote;
if i could find a motorcycle that would keep the rain and cold off me and carry a case of beer i would buy it.
I once carried 6 cases of beer and a passenger on a GS400. 2 cases on the rack behind the sissy bar. 2 cases upright between the passenger and my back. 2 cases on the tank.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
It'll do the same to a jeep doing 60. Trust me I've been there. The sad part is the Jeep gets 13mpg.
(edit: no lugnut comments required sir...they've all been replace.)
Bull****. It might catch a little more wind, but I've never lost control of my jeep.
-
I'd buy it, if it is a good way to keep the money I would normally spend in gas out of Bush's pocket!
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Bull****. It might catch a little more wind, but I've never lost control of my jeep.
maybe I need to have my front end looked at, my jeep get's a might squirly at 60+ with heavy winds
-
I smell greenie BS in the wind... I doubt that things gonna pass any safety standards and put 4 people in it and the fuel eco/performance will go out the window (and you'll probably wear the engine quickly)
-
a 20 hp engine? I guess it's just meant for flat roads. That's not new technology, thats a go-cart
-
Originally posted by Mr Big
a 20 hp engine? I guess it's just meant for flat roads. That's not new technology, thats a go-cart
Think about it a Geo metro or a Ford escort is only a 70HP. If this thing weighs half as much it requires half the ponies. On my commute it wouldn't make a difference and for that price it would pay for itself.
-
Toss out the Bugs and Ratton engine and install the one from this link.
http://www.angellabsllc.com/
Now there is power to weight ratio.
Bronk
-
Bronk wrote:
Now there is power to weight ratio.
But will it do this?
http://www.breaktaker.com/displayimage.php?pos=-1643
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Decent idea, but the car is pretty much useless. It'd be unable to carry anything, tow anything, or do anything but get you from point a to b.
So why would I buy it then?
Well if you comute daily you don't usually tow anything nor carry anything than yourself ... I guess it's not a niche market :)
-
That thing is so low that if it did run into 60 mph winds its going to still be on the highway. While all the SUV & Pickup trucks are in the ditch!
Its not about weight, its about design.
I don't know about you but I havn't seen that many VW beetles flipped by a wind. Not because of the weight, but the aerodynamics. Ooops, there is that design thing again.
The GT with 9 sec 0 to 62 mph would be fine for this country.
And there certainly is a market for an inexpensive point a to point b vehicle that gets decent milage.
So it doesn't tow, or cartop, so?
I wouldn't tow with a Yugo or a VW beetle either.
Best of all, set this little gem up to run on sunflower, or soybean oil, or bio diesel instead of petro and you'd have a real winner.
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
Best of all, set this little gem up to run on sunflower, or soybean oil, or bio diesel instead of petro and you'd have a real winner.
it comes in two flavors, gas or diesel.
-
The old VW beetles flipped all the time around here on the freeway just changint lanes and it was because of the wind... the new ones weigh 1000 lbs more.
plastic windows? Ever have a care with plastic windows? I have. not good.
20 hp and 0-60 in 20 seconds? you are gonna have some seriously po'ed people anywhere there is merging into traffic or hills.
in their quest to save weight they seem to have left out a few things that people might like.... air conditioning... heater and defroster... working windows... windshield wipers...
Gear it lower (lower top speed.. more acceleration) and it might make a good third car to replace a motorcycle and run errands with.
Funked is right tho... putting cars on diets is a good thing.
lazs
-
lol my 05 wrangler has a better 0-60 time. :lol
shweet!:rolleyes:
-
There are two versions of this car.
The 186mpg version costing £7500 is the slower of the two.
The 155mph version will cost more, accelerates to 100km/h (62mph) in ~9 secs, and achieves 2.7L/100km which is about 88 miles per US gallon.
-
Ok... a car that goes 0-60 in 9 seconds would be a hazard getting on the freeway and going up hills...
it would still not have air conditioning or heat or defrost and would be like seeing the world out of the bottom of a coke bottle once those plastic windows started getting messed up. Add all the stuff you need to make it a real car and it will be lucky to get 40 mpg.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... a car that goes 0-60 in 9 seconds would be a hazard getting on the freeway and going up hills...
it would still not have air conditioning or heat or defrost and would be like seeing the world out of the bottom of a coke bottle once those plastic windows started getting messed up. Add all the stuff you need to make it a real car and it will be lucky to get 40 mpg.
lazs
I liked this one...
And it’s a myth, says Tobias, that lighter cars are more vulnerable in an
accident: just watch any Formula 1 racer emerge unscathed from a pile-up.
Didn't an IRL driver just lose both his legs in an accident? There's also a difference between a open-wheel, carbon fibre monocoque chassis hitting a wall at speed, and a little plastic box with 3 girders getting T-boned by a 3+ ton cargo truck.
Cool looking car, but it'd fail horribly in an America market.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... a car that goes 0-60 in 9 seconds would be a hazard getting on the freeway and going up hills...
I call BS on that. Some variants of the Honda Civic take longer than 10 secs to reach 100km/h or 62mph, and yet the Civic is one of the best selling cars in America. Besides, if taking 9 seconds to reach 60 is such a hazard, how do trucks get by??? it would still not have air conditioning or heat or defrost and would be like seeing the world out of the bottom of a coke bottle once those plastic windows started getting messed up.
Sounds like you were describing the original air cooled VW Beetle - best selling car of all time, and which sold over 100,000 units in America some years in the 60s. But then Detroit decided you wanted power everything, so that's what you got. The whole point of this Loremo car is a no-frills car. Many people (including gunslinger ^) would waive "luxury" items to get a car which was competent for the commute and was economical.
-
Hehe, I could see the ad for it in Texas.
".....We can offset the weight gains of adding A/C by removing the brakes! When you want to stop, just turn on the A/C!"
Guns, wait until August before you think you would actually commute in this car. You just moved to Texas (San Antonio). When the temperature hits 100 and the humidity is at 80%, you would kill to get rid of something like this.
Talk about road rage.
-
Originally posted by indy007
a little plastic box with 3 girders getting T-boned by a 3+ ton cargo truck.
i guess what you drive now would survive getting t-boned by a 3+ ton cargo truck?
-
Originally posted by Mr Big
a 20 hp engine? I guess it's just meant for flat roads. That's not new technology, thats a go-cart
It all depends on how the ponies get to the ground. I had a 19hp tractor that would pull stumps a 400hp Blazer couldn't.
It's never going to beat a Corvette, but it could be an effective commuter car. You can forget about installing a/c, unless it was one of those old swamp cooler in the window types.
-
I'll give myself a better chance of surviving with all those exceedingly heavy, dangerous enemies of the environment and low mileage commuting like side impact airbags, crumple zones, energy absorbers...
I used to work at car dealerships, still do consulting for them, so I've seen more than my fair share of bodyshops. If I'm going to be hit by a 3 ton truck.. much rather be in my SUV, or any sedan for that matter, with all the safety features. Why willingly put yourself in a vehicle that shed all of that to save on mileage?
-
the "you might get in an accident, what about the children" arms race must be stopped.
maybe gorby will be the next GM CEO
-
Would you really buy another car just to use for commuting? You aren't going to save a penny if you don't have it for a LONG time.
Figure the 1st year costs alone: (costs may vary, these are approximate)
1. Purchase: $14,158
2. Sales Tax: $707
3. Excise Tax: $400
4. Registation: $65
5. Dealer Fee: $200
6. Insurance: $600
That's $16,130 - at $3.50 per gallon of gas, that's 4608 gallons of gas.
If your current vehicle gets 20MPG, thats 92,160 miles of driving to equal what you spend to get the thing.
Still want to buy it?
-
It is a good idea as long as you are aware of it's deficiencies. It's safer and more practical than a motorcycle. But less safe in an accident than a normal car. As cheap transport, it's ideal. If you can afford better you won't buy it. That will be it's downfall, it's only real advantage is that it's inexpensive to run. That doesn't sell many cars these days.
Someone mentioned the Geo Metro. I had one of those, actually the Suzuki Swift version. That was such a tinny car. No weight at all. Oddly enough the engine suffered from carburettor icing after about ten miles or so. You had to stop and let the ice melt:lol before starting off again. It was wrecked when I was rearended at a red light by a fool in van and pushed into a VW ahead of me. Neither the VW or the Van had more than minor dings and scratches. The Suzuki was totalled. It made me wary of lightweight cars ever since.
I think they'll sell a few Loremos but really what needs looking at is normal cars with better fuel economy or biofuels. That is what people will buy.
-
No fair, Midnight, no fair!
-
Originally posted by Midnight
Would you really buy another car just to use for commuting? You aren't going to save a penny if you don't have it for a LONG time.
Figure the 1st year costs alone: (costs may vary, these are approximate)
1. Purchase: $14,158
2. Sales Tax: $707
3. Excise Tax: $400
4. Registation: $65
5. Dealer Fee: $200
6. Insurance: $600
That's $16,130 - at $3.50 per gallon of gas, that's 4608 gallons of gas.
If your current vehicle gets 20MPG, thats 92,160 miles of driving to equal what you spend to get the thing.
Still want to buy it?
That's if the current vehicle has 92,000 miles left in it. Look at these numbers:
1. Tires: $500
2. Transmission repair: $1500
3. Engine repair: $1000
4. Towing: $200
You still have the same insurance, taxes, registration, ect. One thing to consider, not everyones current vehicle gets 20mpg. Mine gets a smooth 12.9 mpg.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Many people (including gunslinger ^) would waive "luxury" items to get a car which was competent for the commute and was economical.
If it doesn't have AC he won't be driving it for long. One two hour wait in a traffic Jam mid August without AC would change his mind... :lol
AC is more of a necessity then a "luxury"...
-
Originally posted by rpm
That's if the current vehicle has 92,000 miles left in it. Look at these numbers:
1. Tires: $500
2. Transmission repair: $1500
3. Engine repair: $1000
4. Towing: $200
You still have the same insurance, taxes, registration, ect. One thing to consider, not everyones current vehicle gets 20mpg. Mine gets a smooth 12.9 mpg.
RPM - I meant would you buy another car, as in a second vehicle, just for commuting. If it's going to be your only car, then it is probably a worth-while purchase.
Also, I just looked at the end specs for that thing again. Projected retail prices are actually $20,752 - an even bigger cost.
There's too many variables to give every possible cost analysis, but even for me (getting about 12.5 MPG) when you figure in the higher purchase price and taxes, I could still put in 82,695 miles before the new car paid for itself.
I left out maintenance, because if you have two vehicles, you have to figure the costs for both, so it's probably a wash.
-
Originally posted by john9001
i guess what you drive now would survive getting t-boned by a 3+ ton cargo truck?
(http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram15.jpg)
or a Volvo if you're cheap ;)
-
Skuzzy and others,
Just FWIW, I DONT HAVE A/C in my Jeep as it is! BUT, I can take the top off and get a nice hot breeze.
Then again my hours wont require me to have A/C. When I get my hat I'll be going in at around 4AM and working till 9PM for roughly 3 weeks strait....hours after that very for the next 5 weeks and that cycle repeats itself every 8-10 weeks for the next 18 months minimum.
Nope you guys wont be seeing me too much.
Midnight that drops down to 52000 and change if you get around 12.5MPG. For somone (not me though) that has a 100 mile per day commute will easily drive that in 2 years. 50 mile/day it would take 4 years. I say the savings would almost pay for it and you can keep your "other car" without putting the miles on it.
Bad car
50 Miles per day = 4 Ga. @ $2.75 = $11/day X 20 days = $220/month fuel bill
Good car
50 Miles per day = 0.5 Ga. @ $2.75 = $1.37/day X 20 Days = $27
(calculated using 100MPG economy)
Difference of $193/mo.
now $15K borrowed @ 7% for 72 mo. with 0 down = $255.74/mo
$62.74/mo you'd be paying to:
1. Help the environment
2. Put less money into "big oil" and ultimately "our friends the sauds" hands
3. Build equity into something that Might hold some kind of resale value after 5 or 6 years.
4. not rack up the milage or the wear/tear on your "other car"
aside from the whole A/C thing it doesn't sound all that bad to me.....plus it looks better than a metro and doesnt have that "hybrid" stigma to it.
-
cars are metal pimps. i hate them all.
hap
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Skuzzy and others,
Just FWIW, I DONT HAVE A/C in my Jeep as it is!
Have you used your jeep here during the summer?
When I first moved to Texas I had a small Toyota truck that did not have AC and had to get rid of it...
-
Guns,..hehe,..I grew up in Corpus Christi, which is south of San Antonio. Let me tell you something. At 4am when you crawl into your Jeep, and it is 90 degrees and 86% humidity, you are not going to be a happy camper.
Worse thing about the early morning hours is the humidity is higher than during the day, and there is virtually no wind. Ever steam clams? Welcome to south Texas Mr. Shell. :D
-
I'll stick with my Yukon XL
-
English page of the company's website http://www.loremo.com/index_en.php
according to the specs page, it will have option for AC.
http://www.loremo.com/daten_en.php
earliest they are planning to sell is in 2009, and in Europe. I've read nothing about it coming to the US.
if it was cheap enough, I'd get one. would love to fill up only once every 3 months or so, to drive to work.
-
you'd never remember which side of the car the fuel door was on lol
that would cut into your mileage lmao
-
It’s always interesting to see how new developments in automotive and fuel technology are received amongst the population at large. Even the somewhat limited cross-section of the motoring public who have replied to this thread, we can see people who are ready to embrace this car positively, wheareas others have rejected it out of hand.
I’ve been to numerous motor shows over the last ~35 years, and at most of these shows have seen what has been created as a “concept car”. A concept car is not something I would expect to end up on the road being driven by the masses, but has been created to make a point, or to show what can or could be done in a particular branch of automotive technology. The Loremo has gone a stage further, and will enter production.
Some people here have dismissed this car because it “doesn’t have air conditioning”. But as DieAz has pointed out, a/c is indeed listed in the Loremo options. See the link provided by DieAz ^
Others have suggested that the Loremo would “fail miserably” in the American market. But then those same people were probably saying that about the Smart Car, which I first saw in Germany in 1999. A lot of naysayers thought it could not succeed, least of all in America, where those people who still hark back to the days of "cheap gas" insist on having an armoured vehicle akin to an Abrams tank! But, after a few more years and with people feeling the pinch at the pump, attitudes have changed, and the announcement that the Smart Car would be deployed in the US was carried in the USA today newspaper in 2004. Story here (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-04-15-mercedes-smart_x.htm).
-
Fat slicks + that MYT engine and it might just work...
-
MYT is a paper engine. Check their BB to learn more.
This however (http://www.regtech.com/) is a running engine, which is efficient and light, but doesn't claim to produce 1000 kW. But it's Canadian...
-
Originally posted by Debonair
you'd never remember which side of the car the fuel door was on lol
that would cut into your mileage lmao
thats where a post-it note on the dash would come in handy.
that Rand Cam engine looks interesting. where are the detailed specs?
how much it cost and where can one be ordered, etc?
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
That thing is so low that if it did run into 60 mph winds its going to still be on the highway. While all the SUV & Pickup trucks are in the ditch!
I'd haul that thing in the bed of my pickup so when i get ran off the roads by heavy winds, i'd still be able to get to wherever it was i was going.
:aok
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Guns,..hehe,..I grew up in Corpus Christi, which is south of San Antonio. Let me tell you something. At 4am when you crawl into your Jeep, and it is 90 degrees and 86% humidity, you are not going to be a happy camper.
Worse thing about the early morning hours is the humidity is higher than during the day, and there is virtually no wind. Ever steam clams? Welcome to south Texas Mr. Shell. :D
hell it's like than in San Antonio, too... 90%+ humidty in early mornings dropping down to low 30% by late afternoon and starts rising over night. it's not quite so hot, tho' that early... worst time of day i think for heat is around 5-6pm...
but you growing up down(wind) of corpus... well that explains a lot. :lol
now you're just another yankee up in dallas...
-
Originally posted by DieAz
English page of the company's website http://www.loremo.com/index_en.php
according to the specs page, it will have option for AC.
http://www.loremo.com/daten_en.php
earliest they are planning to sell is in 2009, and in Europe. I've read nothing about it coming to the US.
if it was cheap enough, I'd get one. would love to fill up only once every 3 months or so, to drive to work.
They still need to dump the plastic windows....
If it has AC they might be able to sell it down in the lower southern states.
But I don't see it selling "well" in areas where there would be lots of snow. The first time someone scrapes the ice off their plastic window scratching it all up, they would be wanting their SUV back "thinking screw the environment I need to see out my window".. ;)
-
Originally posted by soda72
The first time someone scrapes the ice off their plastic window scratching it all up
I guess you never worked with industrial touchscreen ?
-
Bottomline: I value the safety of myself and my family more than I am concerned about the environment or fossil fuels. This is nothing more than a small coffin with wheels on it.
Beet1e, you drive a 4 wheel drive vehicle, which gets worse gas mileage than a comparable 2 wheel drive vehicle would. Why? According to you, it is a safety issue. Of course, you will no doubt have excellent rationalizations covering this.
I wonder how much weight it will gain in order to be sold here? I wonder what type of person would actually risk thier life to drive it?
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I wonder what type of person would actually risk thier life to drive it?
The same people who would drive a Yugo.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Beet1e, you drive a 4 wheel drive vehicle, which gets worse gas mileage than a comparable 2 wheel drive vehicle would. Why? According to you, it is a safety issue. Of course, you will no doubt have excellent rationalizations covering this.
I just checked the Audi website, and the 2WD version of what I drive is indeed about 3mpg better than the 4WD version, ie 50mpg instead of 47mpg. I chose the 4WD because IMO it drives a lot better, and is better able to deal with winding roads, uneven terrain and loose or wet surfaces.
As for the Loremo, please remember that I have neither denounced nor advocated this car. I have merely posted a thread to alert fellow board members of its existence in these times of rising oil prices. I wonder how much weight it will gain in order to be sold here?
I don't know of Loremo's plans to sell the car in the US, but I suspect they will want to try. The Smart Car made its debut in Germany in 1998, but it wasn't until 2004 that it was introduced in the US. The Smart Car ForTwo weighs about 730Kg depending on the variant, by the way. I wonder what type of person would actually risk thier life to drive it?
I would have thought the occupants of the Laremo would be safer than the riders of any motorcycle. How many motorcycles are sold each year in the US?
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
I went out of my way and deeper into my pocket to make sure my loved ones drive a vehicle that has a chance of surviving a t-bone accident with an SUV.
I'd put 'em in Abrams tanks and gladly pay the fuel costs if i could.
Anybody that puts their loved ones into an econo-box is playing the worst kind of roulette...
... I await with intrest the development of the car in Europe. I suspect there will never be an american version as I can't see how it could possibly pass the saftey standards as designed.
Kinda threw me for a loop seeing you actually talk about a loved one surviving a t-bone accient with an SUV. You are wise on this one, speaking as somone who lost a son and daughter in a t-bone accident with an SUV. My son's Chevy Cavalier never had a chance against the Jeep Cherokee that hit him. If they'd let me go back in time, I'd put em in a tank too. To my everlasting regret, I can't
-
Motorcyclists, in general, would not be interested. Trust me on this one. I was an avid motorcyclist for many years.
I have never heard of the 'Smart Car'. I did look it up, and apparently, it is not available in the U.S. from dealers. They are still "mapping out the distribution network". No indication when or where it will be available, that I could find. The only way you can get one is through an exclusive importer. Hmmm,..mail order car. I might do that for an Aston Martin, as an example, but for a ZAP? Hehe.
I would not consider one. It's only $4,000 less than my Lexus. And it is a lot less car. I definately would not consider one if I cannot test drive it.
Here is another little tidbit about the ZAP, "The Smart Car Americanized by ZAP is now legal on most U.S. road and freeways,...." Most? So, I have to check to see if it is even legal to drive here? 85MPH is top speed. I wonder what the 0-60MPH speed is?
Interesting disclaimer as well,,.....
"ZAP is not affiliated with, or authorized by, smart gmbh, the manufacturer of SMART automobiles, or the smartUSA division of Mercedes-Benz LLC, the exclusive authorized U.S. importer and distributor of those vehicles. ZAP purchases its vehicles from non-affiliated direct importer Smart-Auto LLC."
-
I used to love pulling up to a drive though in my mustang which got 5mph on a good day and giving everyone inside a nice high off turbo blue. mmmm i miss that smell. I also loved to intentionally pull infront of cars like beetles with people probably like beelte driving them on the highway and watch their faces turn green from all of the raw fule dumping out of my 3 1/2 inch exhaust with zero emisions equipment...
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I have never heard of the 'Smart Car'. I did look it up, and apparently, it is not available in the U.S. from dealers.
I reread that 2004 article from USA Today which says "Mercedes-Benz confirmed Wednesday that it will introduce its Smart line of small cars, now just in European and Asian markets, to the USA in 2006." It doesn't say which month in 2006, but it's likely to be quite soon.
There are numerous variants, and a plethora of engine options - the very first Smart Car I saw in Germany had a load of blurb on the back, in which it claimed a top speed of 176km/h.
-
Originally posted by Morpheus
I used to love pulling up to a drive though in my mustang which got 5mph on a good day
5mph? My dad's riding mower was faster than that.
-
phat fingers syndroom.
atleast I'm not a brit. :)
-
According to Smart, the U.S. version will be governor limited to 85MPH. Has something to do with passing DOT safety regulations.
I called one of the local M-B dealers. They have not gotten any word on it.
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I called one of the local M-B dealers. They have not gotten any word on it.
Give 'em another call - maybe in 2 weeks. ;)
-
Nah,.it will be at least 6 months, if they have nothing yet. It will take that long to do all the support training for sales, marketing, mechanics, make-ready and so on.
Besides, at $25,000 U.S., what numpty would buy one?
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
what numpty would buy one?
Those are my thoughts when I see people buying 12mpg SUVs.
-
At least the SUV is safer.
-
I don't know about that skuzzy, I saw a Chevy Trail Blazer in a werck today with a Dodge Stratus, and it looked like the Stratus won, at least it could be moved without useing a dustpan.
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
At least the SUV is safer.
what happens when your SUV gets hit by a 18 wheeler?
so sorry.
-
Originally posted by john9001
An SUV would get creamed if an 18 wheeler hit it. Therfor an SUV isn't safer than a smartcar.
Uh, ok.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Those are my thoughts when I see people buying 12mpg SUVs.
The 2006 Suburban...a BIG SUV... 1500 2WD w/1WT is equipped with a standard 5.3-liter, V8, 295-horsepower, flexible fuel engine that achieves 14-mpg in the city and 19-mpg on the highway.
Just sayin'.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Those are my thoughts when I see people buying 12mpg SUVs.
Yet you rode around in them when you went on a trip to the Middle East. It was okay though, because the country had a lot of oil, it was YOU, gas was cheap and you "needed" to get your fat arse carted in comfort and safety up a big pile of sand in chit-land.
-
My kid rented a econo-box... she said 'it was kinda scary. i was sitting in traffic, i coudn't see around the car in front of me, i was looking in the rear-view mirror wondering if the guy behind me would stop before he squished me. when i looked out the front again i realized i was looking UP at the trunk lid of a honda.'
-
Originally posted by Mr Big
Yet you rode around in them when you went on a trip to the Middle East. It was okay though, because the country had a lot of oil, it was YOU, gas was cheap and you "needed" to get your fat arse carted in comfort and safety up a big pile of sand in chit-land.
:rofl
Oh, you mean that dune riding trip to the Inland Sea. That was a surprise treat laid on by my friend who lives there. :aok:p
Well skuzzy, you were born the same year as me, so our motoring memories are similar but for being on opposite sides of the pond. You seem sceptical about the success of the Smart Car, due to be introduced in the US in 2006. By the way, I don't think they'll be sold at existing Merc dealers. The Merc UK website doesn't have details of the Smart. It wouldn't be good marketing to have a Smart Car in the line up alongside all those 500SEL luxury models. I don't know how Smarts are sold in the UK, but I can find out.
The whole point about the Loremo, the Smart, the price of gas etc. is that the motoring scene is constantly changing, along with everything else. When we started driving, Honda made motorbikes. I don't think Honda was even building cars c1970. So who would have thought, back then, that a Honda car would be amongst the three best selling cars in the US, alongside two other Japanese imports, one of those another Honda? Who would have thought, back then, that a Honda would become Motor Trend car of the year for 2006? But then again, who would have thought, back then, that the price of gasoline would exceed $3/gallon, and who would have thought that the twilight years of oil would be upon us, and with China set to suck up every remaining drop of oil the world can produce?
-
It's interesting that many Americans are so conserned about safety all of a sudden.
-
See Rule #5
-
Mora, nothing 'all of a sudden' about being concerned with safety. I have always considered it in the purchase of a car. Of course, having ridden motorcycles for over 30 years has a tendency to make you think about all the bad things that can happen if an accident occurs.
One of the compelling reasons I bought my new car was due to the knee air bags. Being tall, my knees are almost always in harms way. Of course, the car also tied the BMW 3 series for safest car to be in, in an accident.
But the Lexus has edge. It is designed to be repaired, in the advent of an accident. It has the lowest cost of repair of any car in its class.
The outstanding gas mileage, for a car it's size, was just icing on the cake.
Beet, quit being so damn condescending. It adds nothing to the discussion. We may be about the same age, but when it comes to cars, my knowledge far exceeds yours.
-
There is nothing wrong with choice. The more different types of cars out there the better so far as I am concerned. What I don't want is someone telling me what I can and can't drive or what can and can't be manufactured.
I have no problem trading performance for comfort as in a light car. I have no problem with fuel milage going up. I just want choice.
I have no problem with alternative fuels either... I just want choice. If narmal gas got too expensive I would probly seek an alternative for mundane driving and still drive my old Hot Rods when I could afford it.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Beet, quit being so damn condescending. It adds nothing to the discussion. We may be about the same age, but when it comes to cars, my knowledge far exceeds yours.
What, my oil change remark? Wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I was merely observing that the interval between oil changes for modern engines has increased to a level we might not have thought feasible, 30 years ago.
-
yep... and we don't lube cars or adjust points or put on tires every 10k (except back ones on hot rods)...
I think we all know how far cars have come.
I think we know that a new Z06 vette will do 200mph with the airconditioning on and run sub 12 sec quarter miles while listening to a 100 watt stereo system and that it will crush you with g forces and that it will get 26 mpg and put out 525 hp and cost a mere 65k
you don't lube the car or change the spark plugs or put tires on it every vacation.
There are many ways for cars to evolve.... I think skuzzy realizes this and finds your cherry picking anoying is all. It is like the guy who never drank wine before except maybe in wine coolers who finds a wine that some magazine says it one of the best for the money and then get's all preachy about it to everyone he meets explaining how it is the best wine ever and why.
listening to someone who knows so very little about cars preach about em is like.... well... listening to someone who knows nothing about guns talk about em.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
But the Lexus has edge. It is designed to be repaired, in the advent of an accident. It has the lowest cost of repair of any car in its class.
You should look at my DB and see what the parts actually cost. I'm pretty sure Lexus is japanese for "Toyota plus 30 percent".
-
Originally posted by lazs2
yep... and we don't lube cars or adjust points
The last time I had a car that used "points" was in 1978. At that time I had a Ford Cortina 2000E, and I ripped out the points and condensor and replaced them with a Piranha electronic ignition system. A slotted disc was fitted on to the distributor shaft under the rotor arm, and as the slots passed between a light sensor, which was fitted where the points used to be, the unit varied the current to the LT side of the coil but did it better and more dramatically than a set of points/condensor could. A better spark was the result, and I did gain about 1-2 extra mpg, and smoother running. (The HT side of the coil was unchanged) Did the same job on my next car, but the sensing mechanism employed the "Hall Effect", and used magnets instead of a light sensor and slotted disc. you don't lube the car or change the spark plugs or put tires on it every vacation.
I never change the spark plugs in my car. ;) listening to someone who knows so very little about cars preach about em is like.... well... listening to someone who knows nothing about guns talk about em.
Not preaching about cars in this or any other thread, Lazs. I have simply brought to your attention a new car - the Loremo - and made a few observations about the way motoring has changed over the years. In some cases, the pace of change has been so fast that there have been difficulties assimilating it.
-
Ok... but you seem to be taking one car and using that as proof that cars are going in one direction only when those in the know realize that there are many paths.
lazs
-
Originally posted by indy007
You should look at my DB and see what the parts actually cost. I'm pretty sure Lexus is japanese for "Toyota plus 30 percent".
I know there is a premium for the Lexus parts indy. My point was not to elude to the actal parts cost, but to actually being able to repair the car.
For example, the front sub-frame is bolted on, using grade 12 bolts. High in tensile strength, but lower shear strength. It is possible to replace the front sub-frame. In most cars, you cannot do this. Any impact, which would bend/damage the front sub-frame, will normally bend the main frame as they are usually welded on.
In low impact collisions with the front, the front cross member is designed to allow it to move, then be re-positioned during repair. Most cars require the front cross member to be replaced once they have absorbed an impact.
There was an analysis done for cars in this price range, and the Lexus IS-250 was actually cheaper to repair in frontal collisions below 50MPH. I caught this on the news one night. Parts costs more, but, generally speaking, you have to replace fewer of them.
--
Beet, you lament about then same things, over and over again, flying in the face of facts presented by others. Simply taking things out of context to take a cheap shot. The oil change interval, for my new car, is the same as the oil change interval for my Wife's car, which is 5 years old. 5,000 miles. We established the potential reaons for this in another thread, you were part of. You seem to convienently ignore that.
You continue to badger about some 12MPG vehicle (which is also available from your own country and which is something of a rarity here,..but you keep on whining about it), while also elluding to how far cars have come and how much more advanced they are. You have taken any challenge about this Smart car and turned it into a "it's only because you are ignorant" discussion.
In fact, the Smart car is not as safe as most cars. You ignore the fact the DOT (Department of Transportation) has restricted the Smart car to speeds not exceeding 85MPH due to safety concerns. And when someone comments on how potentially unsafe this vehicle could be, you misdirect the conversation chanting about ignorance.
You take things out of context, you ignore facts, you dismiss facts all the while taking cheap shots every chance you get. You do not ask questions, you assume you know it all, and know it better than anyone else. You do not discuss, you dictate. You take information which suits you and present it out of context, if neccessary, to support your claims. Heck, there are times you have no facts, but just an opinion, and you present it over and over again as if it were fact.
These are all perceptions and my opinion based on how you present yourself here. I find there is no point in trying to have a discussion with you. You do not listen, and when refuted, you resort to misdirection and cheap shots covered in well presented language usage. It does not matter how well you wrap it up, it comes off as condescending and arrogant.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... but you seem to be taking one car and using that as proof that cars are going in one direction only when those in the know realize that there are many paths.
Well no, but I would say that crude oil prices are going in one direction only. We know what that direction is, and it isn't South. Other than that, I wasn't trying to prove anything. How does making a post about a car that hasn't even entered production "prove anything"? In another thread, I even mentioned a news segment I saw in which a British racing enthusiast raced a car powered by wheat oil! I think it's a good thing for people to be aware of the alternatives to gas guzzling cars that rely on expensive imported oil from unreliable sources. More choices, see - I'm surprised that you of all people should have a beef with that, unless it's because you don't like some of those alternative choices.
A 200mph Corvette sounds formidable in terms of power, but what chance do you think it has of outselling the more mundane Honda Civic? As oil becomes more expensive, and you see the $4 gallon sometime this July/August, I think people will be looking for solutions. 26mpg is not a solution. YMMV.
-
I know exactly what you're saying Skuzzy. Handled my share of Toyota, Lexus, Scion, & some domestic body orders once upon a time. :) Comparing the amount of front bumper covers/absorbers/extensions/reinforcements that are sold without need crossmembers, engine cradles, or more frame parts.. it really is astonishing and a testament to clever engineering.
There's a bit more to it though, in regards to my post... On an IS-250, there's actually little commonality with existing Toyota/Scion/Lexus, so not much chance to save a buck on general repairs. A quick example are the 470 series SUV's. Last I saw, the part # should be for a Sequoia, 04465-35290. They're the exact same as the 470's pads... except at a Lexus store, the same part, in the same box, costs them and you about 20%-30% more. It's a strange, but appearently successful system. Lexus dealers can not use the same distributors as Toyota/Scion stores. In fact, Gulf States Toyota is 10 minutes west of Houston, hundreds of Toyota dealers use them. The Lexus stores here in town must use the Lexus distributor, which I think is in Tennessee. However, they could call over to a Toyota store, have the part delivered, and actually make a few % more on it. Part of my business capitalizes on cross-compatibility and while it's not our most profitable idea, it is a good one. :) Works for Toyota-Lexus-Scion-Hyundai, Ford-Mazda, and some others... you just have to sit down with enough books and patience (or in my case, OCR scanner, Excel, and a *!@# load of RAM)
It's a strange, strange parts world. :)
-
Oh yeah, been there and done that indy. It is funny about the parts though.
Most of the car manufacturer's do not make thier own parts and some of the parts manufacturer's take advantage of it as well. "Hey, this is the same part as the Toyota uses! Put it in a Lexus box and charge more for it!" I used to see this, all the time, when I worked in auto parts.
Heck, this was the also the case internally to the manufacturer as well.
Ford was really bad about this, at one time. The upper control arm for the Mustang, Falcon, and Fairlane were the exact same parts, but carried three different part numbers and three different prices.