Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Souless on May 21, 2006, 12:32:15 AM

Title: OK enough is enough FIX IT
Post by: Souless on May 21, 2006, 12:32:15 AM
Please for the love of god fix the P-38 flaps.
HTC has stated that there is a problem with the flaps in ther P-38 please fix it. How long will this take 2 weeks??? pretty sad in my opinion.
What i find ammusing is the f4u out turning and hovering with less wing loaded planes.
Also the P-47 losing little eneregy with flaps deployed.
Historically correct i dont think so fix this pile of bull
Pretty sad the game has evolved to this
The new Fm has evolved to a bunch of bull crap
I never post on the boards becaause of the immature rebutles that i read however like i said enough is enough or im taking my tonka toy and going elsewhere:)
I have flown in the MA the 38L for several years and what i find is flaps out it loses e and noses down.
Sure i could keep it fast and high and bore and zoom but i prefere not to.
HTC there is a serious problem with the current fm that you introduced no need to look any farther than the f4u series and the P-47 series. You have introduced heavily wing loaded planes to simply hovercrafts that DID NOT perform in this manner.
You acknowledge that there is a problem THEN FIX IT pretty sad on your part it has taken this long to address your issues you created.
Title: Re: OK enough is enough FIX IT
Post by: SFCHONDO on May 21, 2006, 12:53:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Souless
Please for the love of god fix the P-38 flaps.
Nice intro
HTC has stated that there is a problem with the flaps in ther P-38 please fix it. How long will this take 2 weeks??? pretty sad in my opinion.
What i find ammusing is the f4u out turning and hovering with less wing loaded planes.
Also the P-47 losing little eneregy with flaps deployed.
Historically correct i dont think so fix this pile of bull
This is a game, I doubt any of these planes trully fly historically correct. Unless you have actually flown a real one of these in battle and know first hand, then I stand corrected
Pretty sad the game has evolved to this
The new Fm has evolved to a bunch of bull crap
Those statements will get you everything your asking for from HT I am sure
I never post on the boards becaause of the immature rebutles that i read however like i said enough is enough or im taking my tonka toy and going elsewhere:)
LOL...Talk about others immature replies, then you state you will take your toys and leave. That showing those immature tards



Don't take any of this personnal, It's late and I am bored...LOL... I do understand your concerns, I was bored so I figured I'd mess with you :D
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Souless on May 21, 2006, 01:02:46 AM
See Rule #4
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: hubsonfire on May 21, 2006, 01:39:56 AM
P.U.N.C.T.U.A.T.I.O.N.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: RTSigma on May 21, 2006, 02:31:59 AM
Did that just happen? I mean, those posts by him?
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Kermit de frog on May 21, 2006, 03:17:12 AM
Please be helpful to this discussion.

Or

Do not post anything in this thread.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 21, 2006, 03:20:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Please be helpful to this discussion.

Or

Do not post anything in this thread.


Skuzzy die and leave you moderator?


ack-ack
Title: Re: OK enough is enough FIX IT
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 21, 2006, 03:22:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Souless
Please for the love of god fix the P-38 flaps.
HTC has stated that there is a problem with the flaps in ther P-38 please fix it. How long will this take 2 weeks??? pretty sad in my opinion.
 



Patience is a virtue....

Besides, the bug is more of a hinderance than a game breaker.  Learn to use the flaps better and it won't bother you so much.  YMMV.



ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: BigR on May 21, 2006, 05:35:23 AM
I havnt had a problem at all. I Dont really fly the L that much but the G and J are fine for me. When the patch first happend i did notice a difference, but now I dont really think twice about it. I guess I just got used to it. It still handles super at extremely low speeds. There might be a problem, but I dont think its as bad as you make it out to be. If HT says theres a problem, he will get around to fixing it. I think they have a lot on their plate right now and theres only a few people working there. Cut em some slack. Im not a cheerleader at all but I do realize just how few people there are working at HTC. They dont have big programming teams like WOW or EQ. The biggest hurdle is getting them to admit there is a problem. After that, its just a matter of being patient and waiting for the next patch.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: bozon on May 21, 2006, 06:06:45 AM
I thought HT said that the bug was only for the last flaps setting in the P38.
Do you really use full flaps that often?
Do you think THAT is realistic?

HTC will get around to it I'm sure  - as I'm sure that the F4U will not stay as it is forever.

Bozon
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: storch on May 21, 2006, 06:08:50 AM
I've flown the P38 and the pony a bit lately and they are awesome to play in, easily beating most of the axis rides, depending on who the opposing player is of course.  thanks for the allied whine.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Blooz on May 21, 2006, 06:32:55 AM
I heard McGuire had five notches of flap out the day he crashed too.


But seriously. Learn to fly your wannabe fighter (it's an intercepter really) the correct way.

A couple notches of flaps in a turn does wonders. Granted, you can't go full flap anymore and out turn Zero's but hey...you shouldn't be able too right?

Also, you could look for an advantage in that last notch of flap. It sure does bring those 17,000 pounds to a stop awfully fast. Maybe you could produce a new overshoot technique with it?
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: killnu on May 21, 2006, 07:29:28 AM
i actually tried that blooz.... very little if any success.  problem is the nose drops like a rock when you get to number 5.  

I thought flaps added lift?  understand they also increase drag, but right now the 5th notch adds such an amount of drag that it actually causes you to drop.  Like it has been stated, its a known bug...guess they will get to it when they get to it.  I understand a bit where souless is coming from, fly a plane a certain way for years, then pooof, add a bug and fly like it no more.  Then sit around and wait for it to be fixed.  

I myself just fly the 38 less anymore. :cry   109s are the poooopp right now.:aok
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: CHECKERS on May 21, 2006, 08:23:18 AM
Souless ,
 I agree  .....
 last patch , no flap fix  :(  ....I really do not like the  new FM at low slow speed,  stall  jackhammer stutters either !!! )
     
 game just isn't as much fun now  in low on the deck in the trees- furballs as before ...

   Bob/CHECKERS
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: LEDPIG on May 21, 2006, 08:27:04 AM
See Rule #7
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 21, 2006, 09:06:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bozon

Do you really use full flaps that often?
Do you think THAT is realistic?



Bozon



Yes.  



ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 21, 2006, 09:11:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LEDPIG
I fly the 38 religiuosly and have to find ways around it's terrible performance. I don't think the P-38 flew this crappy.


Other than full flaps, the P-38 still flies like it used to.  You just need to be careful when using the last flap setting and not ride the plane on full flaps but rather use full flaps only when necessary and then retract them immediately afterwards.  I have no troubles turning with N1K2s or Spitfires but then I was the kind that never rode full flaps but would only use full flaps when absolutely necessary to gain an angle and then retract them immediately afterwards.  YMMV.



Quote
See Rule #7 [/B]



Yawn...just another whine.



ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Swager on May 21, 2006, 09:25:24 AM
Someone bring the cheese!
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Morpheus on May 21, 2006, 09:31:19 AM
plz fix the 38. its the only plane i loved to fly. :(
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: B@tfinkV on May 21, 2006, 09:49:12 AM
learn to adapt to the problems.

if the 38's 5th flap setting is bugged, dont use it.

sucks, but its the only solution that doesnt require somebody else doing something for you.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Hoarach on May 21, 2006, 10:29:35 AM
Before the patch, 38s were able to outturn niks, spits occasionaly, la7s, 51s, hogs, etc.  There were not too many that could out turn the 38 before the patch except the hurri and zeke but 38 could outrun those so wasnt much of an issue.

Now its hard to outturn 51s, hogs, la7s, niks, etc. to what I listed above.  Because of the last flap the 38 is not able to turn as well as it once used to.  When the patch first came out and got low and slow with a 51 and it out turned me I knew something was wrong.  Landing on a cv I learned about the 5th notch flap as I sank.




P.S.  Blooz, its also said McGuire had DTs on when fighting.  He wanted the most kills in the war so figured he could quickly kill the enemy with his DTs then move on to have enough fuel to fight elsewhere and fly home.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 21, 2006, 10:35:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hoarach
P.S.  Blooz, its also said McGuire had DTs on when fighting.  He wanted the most kills in the war so figured he could quickly kill the enemy with his DTs then move on to have enough fuel to fight elsewhere and fly home.



Not quite.  He was forced to engage to clear a Japanese fighter off his wingman's six.  Do a search of these boards for Savage's post on McGuire's death, very informative and good read.


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Hoarach on May 21, 2006, 10:39:48 AM
Ack-Ack I have read several different stories to how McGuire died.  This is just one that I remember.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Morpheus on May 21, 2006, 10:47:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
learn to adapt to the problems.

if the 38's 5th flap setting is bugged, dont use it.

sucks, but its the only solution that doesnt require somebody else doing something for you.


Most retarded thing I've heard. "Its broke because HTC broke it, so learn to fly with it broke"

Yeah, that's the way to run ****. :aok
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Brenjen on May 21, 2006, 10:54:41 AM
I don't fly the 38 much unless I get an urge to JABO, it's really stable when plunking bombs onto GV's.

 Aside from that, do you really think threatening to quit playing or angry faces & asteriks over cuss words directed at the people you want to fix the problem is going to get it done?

 I'm sure Hi Tech Creations, as a company, is smart enough to try & pacify it's customer base when there is a problem. All you have to do is grumble & make yourself heard long enough. You don't have to get "pissy". If you do, you're less likely to get what you want. I'm sorry but it's just human nature to resist in those situations.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Souless on May 21, 2006, 11:15:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Other than full flaps, the P-38 still flies like it used to.  You just need to be careful when using the last flap setting and not ride the plane on full flaps but rather use full flaps only when necessary and then retract them immediately afterwards.  I have no troubles turning with N1K2s or Spitfires but then I was the kind that never rode full flaps but would only use full flaps when absolutely necessary to gain an angle and then retract them immediately afterwards.  YMMV.






Yawn...just another whine.



ack-ack

It certainly does not handle like it use to ack ack but thats my opinion and you have yours we could debate the issue to death but there is no need.
What I would really like to know is why we have several series of planes like the F4 series that can literally hover in a stall fight.
The flaps on the 38 create more wing area however it handles like a pig at low speeds.
This latest patch has created several surprises in the planeset which need to be corrected
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: SkyRock on May 21, 2006, 11:22:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Not quite.  He was forced to engage to clear a Japanese fighter off his wingman's six.  Do a search of these boards for Savage's post on McGuire's death, very informative and good read.


ack-ack
Yeah I believe Weaver called for his help and he turned sharply to the left and stalled going in inverted nose down.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Stang on May 21, 2006, 01:08:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Souless

This latest patch has created several surprises in the planeset which need to be corrected
It sure has, such as the 109F being able to run circles around a Spit V.  As much as I'm loving it in the MA this way, it's not correct, no way.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Raptor on May 21, 2006, 01:23:55 PM
My thoughts are those that say it does not perform any different only fly the P38 fast or do not know how to fly it. 109s and La7s now can turn with it which is far from accurate. 109s could not turn with a P38, so they took advantage of its low compression speed. According to P38 pilot's actual words, the only US fighter that he could not turn with was an F4F.
As I stated in an earlier post on this topic, HTC has not properly modeled the fowler/butterfly flaps. It was proven in Mosq's turning radius test. The P38 and the Ki84 both perform worse.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 21, 2006, 02:17:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor01
My thoughts are those that say it does not perform any different only fly the P38 fast or do not know how to fly it. 109s and La7s now can turn with it which is far from accurate. 109s could not turn with a P38, so they took advantage of its low compression speed. According to P38 pilot's actual words, the only US fighter that he could not turn with was an F4F.
As I stated in an earlier post on this topic, HTC has not properly modeled the fowler/butterfly flaps. It was proven in Mosq's turning radius test. The P38 and the Ki84 both perform worse.



With the exception of the bug that increases the drag with full flaps, the P-38 flies like it did before the patch.  And I don't think you can add me to the group that doesn't know how to fly the P-38.  If you have that mistaken belief, I would be more than happy to show you how wrong you are.  But as all things in life, YMMV.


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Murdr on May 21, 2006, 02:53:10 PM
P-38J turn radius
Kweassa's 2.06 test with 75% fuel:
514 Feet

MOSQ's 2.07 test with 25% fuel:
598 Feet

The new thrust/drag model has changed all planes to some degree.  The F4U and bf109 benifited from it.  The P-38 on the other hand took a hit from it.  It does fly different.  Sorry but I disagree AKAK that it flies the same as before.  It does not ride the edge of the evelope like it did under the previous model.  It does not have the stability that it once had.  This effect will be most noticed by those who commonly fly it on the raged edge at slow speed.  As you indicated, your own style is not that way.

Still as of the time of this posting, I have 71 Kills and 6 Deaths in the P38J for the tour.  So I also don't buy that the plane is in any way unflyable, or the issue itself a game braker.  Im sure they have more than just one issue to address with the next patch, and it will be released when its ready.  No amount of complaining will speed up the process.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Blixen on May 21, 2006, 03:35:46 PM
ack ack it does fly different but how do u know about flaps at 30k
bnzing afk planes:rolleyes:
:rofl

P.S. i also notice the drag bug in other 38`s aswell

but like murdr says even though slow speeds are severly hampered
its not totally unflyable till next patch ...in 2 weeks i guess
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Slash27 on May 21, 2006, 08:34:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
With the exception of the bug that increases the drag with full flaps, the P-38 flies like it did before the patch.

ack-ack


Nope.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: BBQ_Bob on May 21, 2006, 11:10:34 PM
See Rule #7
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Guppy35 on May 22, 2006, 12:10:44 AM
I won't claim any knowledge of how the real one flew or how this one should fly.

Here's how it's affected this 38G driver.  Where I used to get down and dirty on the deck in the furballs in my 38G, I've now gone to the Spit VIII.  It's no longer survivable down on the deck like it used to be.

Maybe that's the way it should be, I'll never be able to say since I've never flown a real one.  But for this wannabe pretend P38G pilot, the change has taken a lot of the fun out of flying that bird.  It's now B & Z to survive in it, which isn't what I enjoy.

I'll live with it, if this is the way it's going to stay but do wish it would drift back towards that bird that could get down and dirty with the Spits and LAs.

If nothing else when it could, it put a lot more 38 pilots in the air.  Sad to see so many of us drifting into other birds just to compete.

Just a quick check on the scores from tour 73 vs 74 and 38J kills as an example show about 2000 less 38J kills vs each country.  Folks are flying the 38 that much less I'm sure.

Just out of curiousity I checked the 109G14 and that one is up about 1500 kills a country too.  So the flaps change surely made a positive difference for the LW guys who weren't happy about their rides.   I'm happy for them, but understand the disappointment of the 38 drivers as well.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: scot12b on May 22, 2006, 05:46:33 AM
See Rule #7
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Pawz on May 22, 2006, 03:58:22 PM
This is crazy can someone tell me where the rules are?
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on May 22, 2006, 04:02:18 PM
At the top of each forum, under the heading of announcements.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Blooz on May 22, 2006, 04:02:42 PM
The forum rules are in the sticky post at the top of each forum.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: SkyRock on May 22, 2006, 04:05:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pawz
This is crazy can someone tell me where the rules are?
The rule is that ack ack made a statement that could have only been made by someone who hasnt flown the 38 since the last patch.  lmao
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: scot12b on May 22, 2006, 04:20:15 PM
Ok fly the 51D why? Just fix the 38. I no if the Pony,Spit,Niki or the La7 had a bug it would be fixet in no time why because the BB would have so many post about it.  HTC no`s about this Bug I can undestand they are busy but it has been long a nuff for a fix to come out. I love them game and plane I dont mind flying other planes but at the same time if the planes I have noted had a bug you can bet thir would be mass WAWAWA:noid
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Krusty on May 22, 2006, 04:39:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Just out of curiousity I checked the 109G14 and that one is up about 1500 kills a country too.  So the flaps change surely made a positive difference for the LW guys who weren't happy about their rides.


Just as an addition to this comment, the problem with LW planes was not the flaps (although, some have argued for different flap speeds, but that's another issue). The problem with a LOT of aircraft was the instability (flaps up OR down) where the thing was balanced on a needle and any thought/breath/fart/sweat-drop made you flip 180 wing over wing.

The code that was changed was not just flap code, it was ALL code that computed how the air flowed over a wing/surface. Haven't you noticed that when you lose a vertical stab you have a little more stability (you don't instantly cartwheel across the sky like you used to)? That's because all the air flow (even across the fuselage) for all aircraft has been recomputed, and for the better.

These flap bugs are another issue, and one I hope is resolved, but the airflow code is wonderful on most of the aircraft I've experienced it with. I fly a lot of different aircraft, too.

Just wanted to point that out.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: viper215 on May 22, 2006, 06:29:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Souless
See Rule #4


Quote
Originally posted by LEDPIG
See Rule #7


Quote
Originally posted by  BBQ_Bob
See Rule #7


Quote
Originally posted by  scot12b
See Rule #7


:lol :rofl :lol :rofl skuzzy pwned:D
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 22, 2006, 06:43:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
The rule is that ack ack made a statement that could have only been made by someone who hasnt flown the 38 since the last patch.  lmao



And whoever said that is wrong.  Go to the 479th film library, just sent Murdr of a deck fight with a Spitfire XVI made after the patch introduced the bug with full flaps deployed.  


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Guppy35 on May 22, 2006, 07:33:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
And whoever said that is wrong.  Go to the 479th film library, just sent Murdr of a deck fight with a Spitfire XVI made after the patch introduced the bug with full flaps deployed.  

ack-ack


What kind of speed range AKAK?  As long as the speed stays up the 38 is fine.  What it lost is the slow speed handling it had down low.  I'm only speaking of the 38G cause that's all I fly in the 38s.  I used to be able to hang with the Spits down low and slow.  Now there is no chance, which of course has driven me into Spits again to fight those fights.

I guess what it basically comes down to is that to fly the 38, at least for me, it has to be a speed and alt game now without the low and slow.  Not nearly as fun
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Murdr on May 22, 2006, 07:34:54 PM
The film in question (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownloaddetails&lid=51&ttitle=p-38films.zip)
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 22, 2006, 07:48:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
What kind of speed range AKAK?  As long as the speed stays up the 38 is fine.  What it lost is the slow speed handling it had down low.  I'm only speaking of the 38G cause that's all I fly in the 38s.  I used to be able to hang with the Spits down low and slow.  Now there is no chance, which of course has driven me into Spits again to fight those fights.

I guess what it basically comes down to is that to fly the 38, at least for me, it has to be a speed and alt game now without the low and slow.  Not nearly as fun


Here is the post (http://http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178230) on the AH Training boards I just made.  The deck fight goes from medium to low speeds.


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: killnu on May 22, 2006, 07:59:08 PM
ok, just watched it, nvr once full flaps.  twice close at end...when you apparently died.   unless film viewer for some reason shows you have some left, but really dont.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Murdr on May 22, 2006, 08:06:40 PM
Full flaps deployed at 7:12-7:14,  7:19-7:23, and 7:39-7:59 I just checked.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Murdr on May 22, 2006, 08:15:59 PM
Quote
P-38J turn radius
Kweassa's 2.06 test with 75% fuel:
514 Feet

MOSQ's 2.07 test with 25% fuel:
598 Feet

By the way, I should point out that kwe's test was with stall limiter on, and full flaps.  MOSQ's was in 'full shake' with 4 notches flap *due to the 5th being bugged.  It looks to me like the 2.06 even with stall limiter, and 1100 lbs of extra fuel can easily out turn the 2.07.  That just doesn't square up with "the P-38 flies like it did before the patch"
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: navajoboy on May 22, 2006, 08:18:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
P.U.N.C.T.U.A.T.I.O.N.



you having your period again??
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: hubsonfire on May 22, 2006, 10:45:11 PM
Worse; I was sober.

So, from what I gather after searching through the bbs, HTC knows about this bug, they just haven't either fixed it, or released the patch, correct? They could be having trouble nailing down the exact cause, or perhaps they've got it fixed and are working on a few other bugs in the hopes of releasing a patch soon, or maybe this isn't a huge priority with them. I can understand being frustrated, having been screwed in the past by bugs introduced, but coming on here and screaming and *****ing isn't really going to get anything done any faster, is it?
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Guppy35 on May 22, 2006, 11:45:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Here is the post (http://http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178230) on the AH Training boards I just made.  The deck fight goes from medium to low speeds.


ack-ack


Different then my 38G fights on the deck :)  Basically it looked like in that bit at the end you used the drag from the flap bug to get that too fast Spit XVI out front.  

That wasn't much of a turn fight compared to what I was used to down in the weeds in the 38G.Riding the edge in a turnfight on the deck was something that was doable.  Now it shakes and shudders and falls out of the sky.

I'm not saying the 38 is useless now.  It just has to be used differently in a fight and that's the part I miss.  I liked going round and round with the Spits and N1Ks in the G :)

 That's not a viable option at this point so it's to fly it more as the B&Z bird.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Delirium on May 23, 2006, 12:17:06 AM
The P38 has had some changes that I both agree with and disagree with... the low speed handling is laughable and when combined with the really poor score whoring game play in AH lately, I don't want to log on.

I tried to make a return recently and overall, I had very little fun... probably going to cancel my account until something changes.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Delirium on May 23, 2006, 12:20:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
coming on here and screaming and *****ing isn't really going to get anything done any faster, is it?


Frankly (and I hate to be so negative), the change happened on March 20th and it is now almost June... that isn't time enough to examine the problem and remedy it?

I really like HTC and everything they have done for me and well as liking the game itself, but I feel I've given them more than enough time.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 01:06:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
ok, just watched it, nvr once full flaps.  twice close at end...when you apparently died.   unless film viewer for some reason shows you have some left, but really dont.


Full flaps were used during the fight with both the Mustang and Spitfire, I only deployed them as necessary.  Didn't die at all, ended up dead stick landing those 12 kills (#12 was a proxy...Mustang augered in trying to get me) at the VH nearby but the film is turned off after the Spitfire kill because it was initially only taken to see who those guys were I was flying against.


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: BBQ_Bob on May 23, 2006, 01:15:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Full flaps were used during the fight with both the Mustang and Spitfire, I only deployed them as necessary.  Didn't die at all, ended up dead stick landing at the VH nearby but the film cuts out because it was initially only taken to see who those guys were I was flying against.


ack-ack


Sure you did. :aok Funny how the film just cuts out like that.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 01:26:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35


I'm not saying the 38 is useless now.  It just has to be used differently in a fight and that's the part I miss.  I liked going round and round with the Spits and N1Ks in the G :)

 


I guess I'm more of an angles fighter than a turn fighter.  Murdr's comment was that I won that fight on pure ACM, which is probably correct but that's my style of fighting I guess.


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 01:34:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BBQ_Bob
Sure you did. :aok Funny how the film just cuts out like that.


Cuts out because I turned it off.  The initial intent of the film wasn't to film any fights but rather to see who I was fighting.  


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: hubsonfire on May 23, 2006, 01:36:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium
Frankly (and I hate to be so negative), the change happened on March 20th and it is now almost June... that isn't time enough to examine the problem and remedy it?

I really like HTC and everything they have done for me and well as liking the game itself, but I feel I've given them more than enough time.


I'm not trying to come off as being a salamander here, but this is one plane exhibiting one flaky behavior that in all probability, would have gone unnoticed by a huge a majority of players. With all the other stuff that's years overdue, as well as the normal work, they've got a lot on their plates, and I'm sure they'll get to it, just like they did the 109 flaps.

I'm just trying to say that patience and restraint are a lot more helpful here than posts to just blow off steam and complain about how long it's taking.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: scot12b on May 23, 2006, 05:42:50 AM
Ok if the 38 fly`s   like it use to why did HTC say thir was a bug and it did affect the 38 flaps?:confused:
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: killnu on May 23, 2006, 05:52:00 AM
gonna have to go look at flap postions now in 38...I remember having that needle buried.  sure looked like there was more left.


sorry akak, couldnt tell if it was just cutout or not, just heard a boom then film over...boom musta been 51 augering.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: LEDPIG on May 23, 2006, 06:02:07 AM
I give up, i'm just flying a Spit like everyone else :cry
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: storch on May 23, 2006, 06:54:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LEDPIG
I give up, i'm just flying a Spit like everyone else :cry
what do you think that rediculously over modelled P38 was before?  all the chest puffy P38 players involved in a communal whine is music.  The fact is the P38 still rocks, it's just your antigravity device has been curbed a wee bit.  get over it.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Guppy35 on May 23, 2006, 10:36:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
what do you think that rediculously over modelled P38 was before?  all the chest puffy P38 players involved in a communal whine is music.  The fact is the P38 still rocks, it's just your antigravity device has been curbed a wee bit.  get over it.


LOL, at least you are predicable.  You base your comment on the 38 on your years of actual flight time?  Seems to me you were in the 109 Chorus loud and clear :)

I think the point, which is the same point that the 109 drivers were making pre patch, is that the AH ride they remembered as better performing and more fun, is now not that and it's impacted on the fun.

Now get back to 30K with your pack of 109s :)
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Guppy35 on May 23, 2006, 10:37:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Worse; I was sober.

So, from what I gather after searching through the bbs, HTC knows about this bug, they just haven't either fixed it, or released the patch, correct? They could be having trouble nailing down the exact cause, or perhaps they've got it fixed and are working on a few other bugs in the hopes of releasing a patch soon, or maybe this isn't a huge priority with them. I can understand being frustrated, having been screwed in the past by bugs introduced, but coming on here and screaming and *****ing isn't really going to get anything done any faster, is it?


Who are you and what have you done with hub?
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Souless on May 23, 2006, 11:41:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
what do you think that rediculously over modelled P38 was before?  all the chest puffy P38 players involved in a communal whine is music.  The fact is the P38 still rocks, it's just your antigravity device has been curbed a wee bit.  get over it.


I remember your communal whine misic on this very same bbs about the 109 for some time which i did agree to.
Have you forgotten AH1 where the 38 would take 1 ping that would kill a motor and take off the vertical stabilizer?
The relevace of this post is what delerium has said the bug was introduced in march and here we are almost into june more than enough time to fix the problem imho.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Iceman24 on May 23, 2006, 11:48:58 AM
"Granted, you can't go full flap anymore and out turn Zero's but hey...you shouldn't be able too right?"


I don't think think the 38 was ever able to outturn a zero ( in a flat turn anyway ) , theres quite a few planes that would outturn the 38 ( pilots being equal ) in a flat turn going round and round in circles, the 38 may be able to stay with the other plane for the 1st 1/2 of the turn, maybe even beating them by using flaps, but it wont hold a sustained flat turn with it. Of coarse add the vertical to the fight and the 38 wins... It still whoops other planes in the vert easily, even the new hover mode corsairs. Flat turn and roll rate the corsair will win, but if the 38 goes vertical the corsair will stall out a good 3 seconds before the 38 does. Was in the TA about 2-3 weeks ago and tested this with the assistance of Ghost. Anyone flying the 38 in circles in a flat turn is not using its best advantage IMHO which is the vertical.. The last notch of flaps bug would be a very welcome fix, but in no way is this plane obsolete. It just won't chase it's own tail like it used to in a flaturn...
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Bronk on May 23, 2006, 12:04:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iceman24
"Granted, you can't go full flap anymore and out turn Zero's but hey...you shouldn't be able too right?"


I don't think think the 38 was ever able to outturn a zero ( in a flat turn anyway ) , theres quite a few planes that would outturn the 38 ( pilots being equal ) in a flat turn going round and round in circles, the 38 may be able to stay with the other plane for the 1st 1/2 of the turn, maybe even beating them by using flaps, but it wont hold a sustained flat turn with it. Of coarse add the vertical to the fight and the 38 wins... It still whoops other planes in the vert easily, even the new hover mode corsairs. Flat turn and roll rate the corsair will win, but if the 38 goes vertical the corsair will stall out a good 3 seconds before the 38 does. Was in the TA about 2-3 weeks ago and tested this with the assistance of Ghost. Anyone flying the 38 in circles in a flat turn is not using its best advantage IMHO which is the vertical.. The last notch of flaps bug would be a very welcome fix, but in no way is this plane obsolete. It just won't chase it's own tail like it used to in a flaturn...



Was this tested with the -4?


Bronk
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Iceman24 on May 23, 2006, 12:16:06 PM
yes, sorry it was the U4 model of the corsair versus the J model 38
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 12:25:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by scot12b
Ok if the 38 fly`s   like it use to why did HTC say thir was a bug and it did affect the 38 flaps?:confused:



Because there is a bug with full flaps deployed.  I was stating that in my opinion other than the bug at full flaps the P-38 flies like it  used to.


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 12:28:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
all the chest puffy P38 players involved in a communal whine is music.  



Strange...I don't recall whining.  


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 12:31:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
LOL, at least you are predicable.  You base your comment on the 38 on your years of actual flight time?  Seems to me you were in the 109 Chorus loud and clear :)



He's basing his comments on all the times he's gotten his arse whacked by a P-38 in here.  Honestly though, even a player in a C-47 could shoot down Storch.  Which explains why he flies in a hord and at 30,000ft.



ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Souless on May 23, 2006, 01:08:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Because there is a bug with full flaps deployed.  I was stating that in my opinion other than the bug at full flaps the P-38 flies like it  used to.


ack-ack

It certainly does not
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Kev367th on May 23, 2006, 01:50:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium
Frankly (and I hate to be so negative), the change happened on March 20th and it is now almost June... that isn't time enough to examine the problem and remedy it?

I really like HTC and everything they have done for me and well as liking the game itself, but I feel I've given them more than enough time.


Your assuming the next patch will ONLY fix the P-38 flap bug, there are probably much, much more fixes in it.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Souless on May 23, 2006, 01:53:01 PM
Not at all kev your assuming yourself now:aok
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 02:04:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Souless
It certainly does not




And from my experience, I disagree.  But then my flying style isn't flat turning in a Luftberry hoping to get an angle.


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Hoarach on May 23, 2006, 02:08:14 PM
So people thinking that 38 is ok saying that all of us who have flown 38 and nothing else since AH1 should change our whole flying style from TnB to BnZ? :rolleyes:
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Souless on May 23, 2006, 02:23:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
And from my experience, I disagree.  But then my flying style isn't flat turning in a Luftberry hoping to get an angle.


ack-ack

and from my experience, i disagree. But then my flying style isn't a stratosphere cherry pick
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: daddog on May 23, 2006, 02:59:06 PM
Quote
The new thrust/drag model has changed all planes to some degree. The F4U and bf109 benifited from it. The P-38 on the other hand took a hit from it. It does fly different. Sorry but I disagree AKAK that it flies the same as before. It does not ride the edge of the evelope like it did under the previous model. It does not have the stability that it once had. This effect will be most noticed by those who commonly fly it on the raged edge at slow speed. As you indicated, your own style is not that way.
Murder is right on IMHO. I fly the 38 a lot and it does not fly as it used to at slower speeds.

------------------------
CO, CM daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.332nd.org/)
332nd Roster (http://www.332nd.org/squadroster.htm)
Special Events (http://events.hitechcreations.com/)
Noses in the wind since 1997.
daddog@hitechcreations.com
(http://www.332nd.org/cdaddog.jpg)
There are three signs of old age: Loss of memory… I forget the other two.
Red Skelton
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: killnu on May 23, 2006, 03:05:28 PM
if BnZ is mostly what you do, then yes, it flies just fine.  If you are use to using the flaps more frequently at low speeds, then no it does not.

I dont expect to fly exactly as it did with the changes they made across the board to all FMs though, but the known bug should be taken care of.  Im sure it will be...at some point.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: storch on May 23, 2006, 03:21:04 PM
any time you guys want some schooling come find me in the AvA at 5k.  wait for a spit set up you might have a better chance then.  I especially found ak ak's post humorous what him being mr 30k afk killer and all.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 03:32:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hoarach
So people thinking that 38 is ok saying that all of us who have flown 38 and nothing else since AH1 should change our whole flying style from TnB to BnZ? :rolleyes:



LOL don't try the "I've been flying the P-38 since blah blah blah.." because you're not going to win that argument.

Nor have I ever said that you have to change your flying style, I haven't.  I've stated that as long as care is taken when deploying full flaps and you don't ride them for extended periods of time and only use them when necessary, the bug shouldn't be a game breaker for you.  I don't feel the bug is a game breaker and only a hinderance at best but as with all things with life, YMMV.  


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 03:34:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Souless
and from my experience, i disagree. But then my flying style isn't a stratosphere cherry pick



Hmmm...you should really take some time to watch some of the films I've made over the years in AH.  Might show you how wrong you are about my flying style and you might even learn a thing or two about flying the P-38 but again YMMV.


ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2006, 03:36:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
any time you guys want some schooling come find me in the AvA at 5k.  wait for a spit set up you might have a better chance then.  I especially found ak ak's post humorous what him being mr 30k afk killer and all.


Why not set up a time in the DA?  Me in a P-38 and you in any plane prop plane you wish to fly.

ack-ack
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: killnu on May 23, 2006, 03:52:07 PM
AKAK is right, he is always down in the weeds TnB.  He would know all about how to TnB down in the weeds better than anyone else in 38.  Especially after the patch, look at all the time he has been in a 38 now.  geesh guys.:rolleyes:
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Murdr on May 23, 2006, 04:01:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
AKAK is right, he is always down in the weeds TnB.  He would know all about how to TnB down in the weeds better than anyone else in 38.  Especially after the patch, look at all the time he has been in a 38 now.  geesh guys.:rolleyes:
I detect a bit of sarcasm there :D
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Guppy35 on May 23, 2006, 04:04:45 PM
Jeez gents.  Let it go.  Point's been made and then some.  Fly em if you like em. Fly something else if you don't.

Patch will get here eventually. Doubt we'll get the old 38 back regardless.
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Souless on May 23, 2006, 04:19:03 PM
See Rule #4
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: killnu on May 23, 2006, 04:42:44 PM
Quote
I detect a bit of sarcasm there


:D   just a little.;)   Sorry, cant help the sarcasm, the Navy did it to me.:aok
Title: OK enough is enough
Post by: Skuzzy on May 23, 2006, 04:52:24 PM
This one is well done.