Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Morpheus on May 21, 2006, 10:03:24 PM
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This is probably the dumbest **** I've seen done with a plane. Im sure there's others, even dumber, but this takes the cake as far as flirting with disaster goes in my book. That being said, they have to have some big ones to even attempt this ****.
"The runway is wet" (http://www.furballunderground.com/films/The%20Runway%20is%20Wet.wmv)
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I wonder how much do they pay for life insurance? And what is their insurance company?
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Whoa!!!!!!!!:O
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Originally posted by Morpheus
This is probably the dumbest **** I've seen done with a plane. Im sure there's others, even dumber, but this takes the cake as far as flirting with disaster goes in my book. That being said, they have to have some big ones to even attempt this ****.
"The runway is wet" (http://www.furballunderground.com/films/The%20Runway%20is%20Wet.wmv)
Dumb maybe but I was friggin amazed ! :aok Just a donut length away from disaster.
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Water is not so dangerous:
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-3-11_into_a_wave.WMV
BTW, it is good site, a lot of amazing videos
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says you, at the computer.
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thats not so hard.
it looks like they are using smoke canisters to enhance the stunt.
not even 100% that you will die when you **** up either.
edit: Vad, that video is amazing, excelent find!
how the heck the pilot kept her flying i dont know
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
thats not so hard.
it looks like they are using smoke canisters to enhance the stunt.
not even 100% that you will die when you **** up either.
edit: Vad, that video is amazing, excelent find!
how the heck the pilot kept her flying i dont know
If Morph was talking about me when wrote "says you", he was wrong. I had no intention to belittle what that guys did. I have some friends who are real pilots , and I understand how amazing what that guys did.
Take a look into http://www.alexisparkinn.com. A lot of videos, and some of them I have no idea how he could get.
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/F15_midair.wmv
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-2-13_Mirageview_new.wmv
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-3-11_too_low.WMV
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Photos of that act started showing up in February in some of the aviation forums. Lots of debate on it.
Wish I had a T6 I could try it with :)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e382/N4995P/DSC1271.jpg)
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That stuff there near the tires, between the rubber and the water must be smoke. No way is that um, real. And water is soft once you get past 100mph. It gets softer the faster you go. Honest So if the gear does dig in, flips the plane end over end and smashes you into the water, it wont hurt, at all. In fact, it will probably feel nice. Something one would want to again. Batfink knows what it takes, he watched a sesna fly around his house from the airport near by. Those guys are a bunch of girls in that film compared to the likes of him.
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PS- Vad, I can't stand watching those films. Rather you posted them somewhere else. Not sure what sort of connection you are trying to make between two dog fighting F-15's smashing into one another and some T6's skimming the water with the gear down. Do people really think that's cool? Watching fighters strike ramps or run into eachother?
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Morph - Are you joking? In a world where people slow down or pull over to look at fatal car accidents? In a world where "*******" could be popular?
Personally it makes me ill to see things like that; but yeah, I can see such things being considered "cool".
As for the video of the T-6's scraping the water with their landing gear, I wonder how much speed they lose when their wheels hit water? I mean, the drag has to be incredible, even just barely touching. They HAVE to be playing with the throttle while they are keeping it steady, but you dont see those birds move as much as an inch once they make contact. Thats some damn fine flying. Stupid maybe, but still .........
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Morph,
You got it backwards. Water gets harder the faster you go, because it's not compressable. If you hit the water fast, it can't get out of the way adn it doesn't compress so it's worse than hitting a brick wall. At least bricks can crumble, but water doesn't move fast enough when you whack it hard. You ever see what happens to powerboat guys when their boat disentegrates at 200mph? They just go skipping across the water like a flat stone. They only dig in when a limb directly stabs the surface or when they slow down.
It's no different than guys who do barefoot waterskiing, and I've also seen many movies of alaskan bush pilots who do that sort of thing all the time on rivers. They land on the river and just need to make sure the water isn't much deeper than about 6-8 inches when they get below hydroplaning speed.
The stuff between the wheels and water is just water spray, no diff from what your car kicks up on a really wet road, and what the planes are doing is pretty much the same as what happens when a car hydroplanes. As a matter of fact, the lower they have the air pressure in the tires, the lower speed they'll hydroplane at. Hydroplaning speed is directly related to tire pressure. The higher the tire pressure, the faster you have to go before you hydroplane. Their smokers are under the fuselage.
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I don't think there's a lot of drag involved. Yea there is some, but think about it just like you would for a hydroplaning incident on landing. There is no effective braking (or steering) when you're hydroplaning, and that's really all those planes are doing. There is some drag and the farther the wheel gets into the water the more drag there will be, but it looks like the water is generally supporting the wheel enough that it's not digging in. So it's really just hydroplaning like a boat with a planing hull or a car going to fast on the freeway.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
That stuff there near the tires, between the rubber and the water must be smoke. No way is that um, real. And water is soft once you get past 100mph. It gets softer the faster you go. Honest So if the gear does dig in, flips the plane end over end and smashes you into the water, it wont hurt, at all. In fact, it will probably feel nice. Something one would want to again. Batfink knows what it takes, he watched a sesna fly around his house from the airport near by. Those guys are a bunch of girls in that film compared to the likes of him.
It could be just me, But I believe morph was using some sarcasm in this post guys
BTW.. Damn Good Flying
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Some people get their rocks off filming complete stupidity and calling it a stunt. Twits with too much money and time on their hands. :aok
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eagl you have it right.
I know a guy that has done this. He said it is very easy and almost feels like pavement. Can you fk it up, sure you can. Is it dangerous, yeah to people who don't have the skill and are not one with their planes. The biggest danger is the FAA and floating debris.
It's a very nice affect and, no bat there is not smoke. Smoke is created by injecting caster oil or the like into the exhaust stacks, fed from something like a gas tank (smoke tank) in the plane.
Some people get their rocks off filming complete stupidity and calling it a stunt. Twits with too much money and time on their hands.
Your not talking about Morphs pic are you?
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FAA rules are remarkably relaxed in suprising ways... As long as you don't endanger any non-involved people or structures, or violate the airspace rules, the FAA is quite willing to let pilots do almost anything they want.
The basic rule is 500 ft from structures and people, and don't endanger anyone. Other than that, it's almost anything goes when in uncontrolled airspace. That said, the determination of what is dangerous is entirely up to whatever FAA investigator looks into any complaints or alleged violations, so if you get a pompous jerkwad FAA goon in your business, you're screwed.
Like one FAA inspector who went on a rampage at an airport back in the early 1990s... He got a bug up his butt and grounded every plane on one airport ramp, yanked numerous licenses, revoked A&P certificates, you name it he did it. His justification was that everyone was involved in flying aircraft with damaged propellors.
Well, it was a company that sold custom props with "bent" tips specifically designed to increase efficiency, and they were totally legal and FAA approved. But it took a LONG time before complaints about this FAA inspector's actions got up through the FAA administrative red tape before they even looked into it, and it took even longer to un-do the damage he'd caused. If I recall correctly, the company never did recover the lost income revenue due to this guy.
Lots of FAA inspector horror stories, but they're pretty much all individuals doing this stuff. All by yourself outside of controlled airspace, if nobody complains then the FAA probably won't even bother to check. The burden is almost entirely on the pilot to not do anything stupid.
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I have to agree with mars, there is no smoke & the pic is real. I looked at it in photoshop & I can't see any pixels out of place, also look where the front/top/left plane skips across the water; no smoke, just spray.
Of course it looked real to me before that I just thought I'd give it a look to be sure, some of the trick pics you see are pretty well done.
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Morph,
You got it backwards. Water gets harder the faster you go, because it's not compressable. If you hit the water fast, it can't get out of the way adn it doesn't compress so it's worse than hitting a brick wall. At least bricks can crumble, but water doesn't move fast enough when you whack it hard. You ever see what happens to powerboat guys when their boat disentegrates at 200mph? They just go skipping across the water like a flat stone. They only dig in when a limb directly stabs the surface or when they slow down.
hehe eagl, I was being a smart ass. Fastest I've hit the water was when I got dumped off my jetski at about 55. I thought my world had come to an end. I twisted stuff I didnt know could twist. I would not want to do it again, any faster.
Edit: As far as what they're doing being dangerous or not... Call me a little girl then, because IMHO unless conditions are absolutely pristine, the water is calm and clear as glass, with no real wind to speak of, the surface of the water is going to poke its hand out and pull that gear down sooner or later. They have just a few inches to play with before hydroplaning becomes something else entirely. Why some of you are talking like this is something for everyone with a little free time to do on a sunday afternoon is beyond me.
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I've seen this before somewhere and my only thought was OMG:O :O :O
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Originally posted by Morpheus
hehe eagl, I was being a smart ass. Fastest I've hit the water was when I got dumped off my jetski at about 55. I thought my world had come to an end. I twisted stuff I didnt know could twist. I would not want to do it again, any faster.
Edit: As far as what they're doing being dangerous or not... Call me a little girl then, because IMHO unless conditions are absolutely pristine, the water is calm and clear as glass, with no real wind to speak of, the surface of the water is going to poke its hand out and pull that gear down sooner or later. They have just a few inches to play with before hydroplaning becomes something else entirely. Why some of you are talking like this is something for everyone with a little free time to do on a sunday afternoon is beyond me.
my turn..
ur so dumb..
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Edit: As far as what they're doing being dangerous or not... Call me a little girl then, because IMHO unless conditions are absolutely pristine, the water is calm and clear as glass, with no real wind to speak of, the surface of the water is going to poke its hand out and pull that gear down sooner or later. They have just a few inches to play with before hydroplaning becomes something else entirely. Why some of you are talking like this is something for everyone with a little free time to do on a sunday afternoon is beyond me.
Yeah you wouldn't want to do this on a windy day with white caps etc LOL.
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lol Nboy, did I hurt your feelings?:lol
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Yeah if you notice the lead planes right wing is dipping up & down a bit & the surface of the water is very smooth which indicates no wind. I could just see them trying it with a stiff crosswind & 2 foot whitecaps.
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Originally posted by mars01
Yeah you wouldn't want to do this on a windy day with white caps etc LOL.
I'm saying never is a good time to do this. It really is just a matter of an inch or two away from a group of pilots standing in a boat saying the trick wasn't worth Jim's life. It's kinda like playing russian rouhlette(sp chk) it might be a great high for those who are doing it but I'd rather not watch blatant stupidity.
Wow, I'm coming off harsh today. :aok
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We'll sky your misinformed bud.
When ever anyone is participating in an airshow they are taking mitigated risks no matter what they do. The trick is to be we'll trained, know your machine and practice all the time.
These guys are all of the above.
There are also some Bush pilots that will use this method to land, as mentioned above. Look for the video Big Rocks and Long Props (http://bigrockslongprops.com/). These guys will land on sandbars and beaches, that are way to short, all day long using the water as their runway so that they are just reaching the beach, rockpile, sandbar as they start to sink.
As far as just some GA guys going out and trying this, well yeah then your response would apply.
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Originally posted by Vad
Water is not so dangerous:
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-3-11_into_a_wave.WMV
BTW, it is good site, a lot of amazing videos
HOW IN THE HECK DID THAT GUY FLY AWAY FROM THAT!!!!
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Originally posted by Morpheus
hehe eagl, I was being a smart ass. Fastest I've hit the water was when I got dumped off my jetski at about 55. I thought my world had come to an end. I twisted stuff I didnt know could twist. I would not want to do it again, any faster.
It gets exponentially worse as you go faster too Morph. My fastest race jetski had a top speed of somewhere in the 75-80 range. I came off of it once at top speed and I can tell you, it hurt, a lot. My Mom was at that race but looked away for a second and my crew didnt want her to look back because they thought I was hurt pretty bad. I dont remember most of it after I hit the water, but I do remember thinking as I was flying through the air "this is not good".
Water is hard.
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Originally posted by Grits
It gets exponentially worse as you go faster too Morph. My fastest race jetski had a top speed of somewhere in the 75-80 range. I came off of it once at top speed and I can tell you, it hurt, a lot. My Mom was at that race but looked away for a second and my crew didnt want her to look back because they thought I was hurt pretty bad. I dont remember most of it after I hit the water, but I do remember thinking as I was flying through the air "this is not good".
Water is hard.
Were you violated?:(
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I have that clip on a tape, all he caught was the spray, it looked a lot worse than it was.
On the same tape is one I can't get my mind around; it's a video clip of a ground crewman getting sucked into a jet intake on a carrier deck. The video said he survived it, & I saw on a different show some years later, the guy they claimed was the one who got sucked in & he recounted his tale. If you see the video, it's just hard to believe anyone could survive it.
Here is a link to the video, I found it after a little searching:
http://www.aviationexplorer.com/a6_engine_ingestion.htm (http://www.aviationexplorer.com/a6_engine_ingestion.htm)
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if i did not see that video of the texans ..I would not have beleived that picture....seesm really risky
Seesm somthn like bush pilots would do..once you get well practiced in your hobby ..you tend to do the crazist sheite..
Btw..You guys like that Knight Rider rythm in the Mirage video?..I was waiting for K.I.T's voice to come over..."Michael...I think we better keep going"
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Originally posted by Slash27
Were you violated?:(
No, even in the summer I wear a wetsuit to prevent "water intrusion" into sensitive areas. :)
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lol.. There is nothing more fun then planting a jet ski at 70mph...
grow a pair dude...:lol
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Originally posted by Lazerr
lol.. There is nothing more fun then planting a jet ski at 70mph...
grow a pair dude...:lol
What kind of ski do you have?
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family owns 2 old seadoos, 1 new one supercharged, and a brand new aquatrax.
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Pics, we want pics!
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anyone who truly still believes i think this stunt is easy, come on now, work it out. ;)
and Mars, look again, they do use smoke.
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Originally posted by Lazerr
family owns 2 old seadoos, 1 new one supercharged, and a brand new aquatrax.
Sweet. The new four strokes are nice, especially the supercharged SeaDonts.
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Nuttin to work out Bat, when you think about it, it's nothing but greasing one in. I just noticed Morphs link is a film. Yeah there are some small instances where they are using smoke, but I see they turn it off quickly too.
Also notice how the first time they touch, they are feeling it out, then they lay it in there. Very nice work. Of course it takes a nice touch, but then so does everything else when flying :aok
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Was never much for seadoo, but that supercharged has some giddy-up.:D
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I've seen that before. Cool stuff right there!
:)
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Originally posted by mars01
We'll sky your misinformed bud.
When ever anyone is participating in an airshow they are taking mitigated risks no matter what they do. The trick is to be we'll trained, know your machine and practice all the time.
These guys are all of the above.
There are also some Bush pilots that will use this method to land, as mentioned above. Look for the video Big Rocks and Long Props (http://bigrockslongprops.com/). These guys will land on sandbars and beaches, that are way to short, all day long using the water as their runway so that they are just reaching the beach, rockpile, sandbar as they start to sink.
As far as just some GA guys going out and trying this, well yeah then your response would apply.
I noted I was being a little harsh. Must have been a bad batch of coffee this morning. I love to watch planes fly. I love to see planes pushed......a little. I have never been a fan of "close call" air shows where the planes come real close to ground( in this case water) or each other. Always gives me a bad feeling. I saw a video of these two p-51's being flown and they were maybe 10-15 feet off each others wings while they flew some manuvers. It was awesome to watch but I still felt at any moment I was going to be watching disaster.
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I think they had bald tires. Anythign treaded I think would have had to much bite.
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Wonder who thought " I'm gonna touch the water with my landing gear just to see what will happen."
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Originally posted by Morpheus
hehe eagl, I was being a smart ass. Fastest I've hit the water was when I got dumped off my jetski at about 55. I thought my world had come to an end. I twisted stuff I didnt know could twist. I would not want to do it again, any faster.
(Note) I had to edit the last part of Morphs post cause it was to long.
Call me a little girl .....absolutely pristine, .....with no real ... inches to play with ......on a sunday afternoon .......
Originally posted by Grits
It gets exponentially worse as you go faster too Morph. My fastest race jetski had a top speed of somewhere in the 75-80 range. I came off of it once at top speed and I can tell you, it hurt, a lot. My Mom was at that race but looked away for a second and my crew didnt want her to look back because they thought I was hurt pretty bad. I dont remember most of it after I hit the water, but I do remember thinking as I was flying through the air "this is not good".
Water is hard.
So have the two of you gone back for more water enemas since then. :aok
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On jetskis I hardly ever tend to fall off when going that fast. If I go faster than 50 its because the water is there for it. Its nothing I want to do on a daily basis for the heck of it. Fall of at high speeds that is. Maybe if my balls where as big as lazers are, I'd have a chance. But then again, knowing him in game as I do, I dont think anyone is as good as lazer in all departments. :aok
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Originally posted by Grits
No, even in the summer I wear a wetsuit to prevent "water intrusion" into sensitive areas. :)
A guy at work had an incident once. He was climbing on the the back and his buddy was going to be funny and goosed the the throttle. Apparently everything was lined up perfect for a lake water enema. Poor sucker ended up getting a pretty nasty wound out of the deal.:(
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The guy I used to fly for used to do that in a C-188. He reported that once you were planing you could put quite a bit of weight on the mains and it felt solid.
Never tried it on purpose but I can report first hand what happens when one drops below planing speed in an Air Tractor AT-401 which is similar in size and weight to a T6. The world goes inverted in about 3 nanoseconds. The G loads and noise are impressive. The cockpit fills with water very quickly (only about three feet, thank you Jeebus). The whole experience is considerably enhanced if it's pitch dark. The only thing I did right was remember to put my hand down to the cockpit roof before unlatching the harness.
If it ever occurred to me to attempt that stunt I think that memory would tend to discourage me.
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^^^
lol **** me
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ya, when you ride them just about every weekend of the summer, you tend to get good at crashin them.
You'd be the sallyass riding 20mph screamin for mercy...:D
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im too old for that crap.
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Im still too young, and too stupid..:p
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Brenjen, about the A6 video: yep, it's hard to believe he did survive, but, if you watch it carefully, especially in the slow motion part, it seems the engine explodes before he's completely sucked in, his legs are still outside the intake when you see the flash of explosion. Maybe, just maybe, something else was sucked in (a wrench or so) and made the engine explode, saving the man's life.....
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Originally posted by Morpheus
im too old for that crap.
ok my turn again..
and ur ugly too..
he hehe :aok :aok
ok enuff from me..
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wow, that was a good one. Here's to taking my joke too far. Inbreed.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
wow, that was a good one. Here's to taking my joke too far. Inbreed.
hence to your uglyness.. :aok :aok
ok ok.. i know its all a joke..
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Brenjen, about the A6 video: yep, it's hard to believe he did survive, but, if you watch it carefully, especially in the slow motion part, it seems the engine explodes before he's completely sucked in, his legs are still outside the intake when you see the flash of explosion. Maybe, just maybe, something else was sucked in (a wrench or so) and made the engine explode, saving the man's life.....
IIRC, it was the crewman's helmet that caused the explosion. It came off his head, lodged in the fan blades, stopped it from turning and saved his life.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I'm saying never is a good time to do this. It really is just a matter of an inch or two away from a group of pilots standing in a boat saying the trick wasn't worth Jim's life. It's kinda like playing russian rouhlette(sp chk) it might be a great high for those who are doing it but I'd rather not watch blatant stupidity.
Wow, I'm coming off harsh today. :aok
NO kidding. So you're saying that all stunt pilots are idiots? The stunt is probably safer than a lot of other ones. These guys aren't crazy or stupid.
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Originally posted by Tabasco
IIRC, it was the crewman's helmet that caused the explosion. It came off his head, lodged in the fan blades, stopped it from turning and saved his life.
Thanks Tabasco. That man was incredibly lucky. It's better to always wear a helmet, when you're moving! :D
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quote:
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Originally posted by Morpheus
wow, that was a good one. Here's to taking my joke too far. Inbreed.
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quote:
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Originally posted by Navajoboy
hence to your uglyness..
ok ok.. i know its all a joke..
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You do know that Morpheus is really ugly and I am pretty sure that Navajo is inbreed.
:aok
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Tobasco & gianlupo,
The video I have claims, his helmet came off & is what you see causing the flash & debri coming out the back as well as other bits like gloves or flashlight etc. According to the video I have, his belt hung on something & that kept him from going through the turbine, the 2nd crewman saved his life by reacting quickly to signal the pilot to shut down, which according to the video, he was already doing because of a million bells & buzzers & lights going off in the cockpit.
it's still amazing footage because he lived; just hard to believe. It brings new meaning to "when it's your time to go"
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Casca were you in Dubuque Iowa anytime in recent past? Last 2 weeks?
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Originally posted by BBQ_Bob
quote:
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Originally posted by Morpheus
wow, that was a good one. Here's to taking my joke too far. Inbreed.
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quote:
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Originally posted by Navajoboy
hence to your uglyness..
ok ok.. i know its all a joke..
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You do know that Morpheus is really ugly and I am pretty sure that Navajo is inbreed.
:aok
and your just plain old tard..
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Originally posted by Golfer
Casca were you in Dubuque Iowa anytime in recent past? Last 2 weeks?
Hi there Golfer. I've been flying out of Minden, NE, 0V3 for the last month. We have a temporary operation in Western Iowa in Sac City later in the summer. How is your new gig workin out?
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Originally posted by BBQ_Bob
Dumb maybe but I was friggin amazed ! :aok Just a donut length away from disaster.
Some donuts are closer to diaster than others. LMAO
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When I lived in Tucson some 20 years ago I worked at a machine shop called Parallel Ventures... the owners ex-wife had a warbird of some kind, can't remember what it was, and she talked about skipping it off the waves in the San Diego bay.
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Originally posted by Casca
Hi there Golfer. I've been flying out of Minden, NE, 0V3 for the last month. We have a temporary operation in Western Iowa in Sac City later in the summer. How is your new gig workin out?
Gig is good. Knowing that I'm getting some rich guy laid by shooting approaches to 200-1/2 to bring him his puddy is a very rewarding part of being a charter pilot. Important missions like that really inspire me to take pride in my work and make me feel warm fuzzies all over.
Sure am glad that firehose is gone from New England.
Stay safe mi amigo
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Originally posted by Golfer
Gig is good. Knowing that I'm getting some rich guy laid by shooting approaches to 200-1/2 to bring him his puddy is a very rewarding part of being a charter pilot. Important missions like that really inspire me to take pride in my work and make me feel warm fuzzies all over.
Sure am glad that firehose is gone from New England.
Stay safe mi amigo
ROFL.
That could be a Real Men of Genius ad. Mr. ILS-To-Minimums-Puddy-Hauler.
Fly safe Golfer.
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Avoiding all the flaming going on here, I have to say that I am impressed by that Vid, It stikes me as somewhat insane, but its dam cool.
And in truth if I had not seen it I would not have thought it possable.
So thanks for sharing it with us Morph.....
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I'm guessing that the planes are going fast enough so the water is hard enough to do that safely.
Here in AK we occasionally have pilots flying amphibs who land on the water with the wheels down. Last one I heard about did so in a Beaver and died, upsidedown, from some unrestrained cargo hitting him in the head.
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i have some video of a supercub w/ tundra tires landing on the H2O on a swift flowing river just right so he rolls up onto a gravel bar just as the tires begin to sink (also in AK of course)
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Can ya post it Debonair
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it was from a DVD called "Big Rocks and Long Props" for sale at supercub.org...can only find a photo
(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4025/skiboys7dr.jpg)
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LOL Great.
Rob dont get any ideas. :furious
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I've heard of pilots landing on sandbars so short that they skip in on the water. I can't figure out how they take off if the sandbars are so short.
Seems like a good way to get stuck in the bush.
Maybe that's why we have Federal Laws requireing a firearm on the bush planes.
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found that video...
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm#GENERAL%20AVIATION
at the bottom of the GA section.
a video of a supercub aloft after an 18' takeoff roll also.
i'd love to see a supercub vs storch STOL competition.
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I've heard of pilots landing on sandbars so short that they skip in on the water. I can't figure out how they take off if the sandbars are so short.
Takeoff is usually shorter than landing. So when landing these guys will use the water which will get them slow enough and hit the sanbars that are enough to finish rollout but also long enough for short field take off.
Yep those are the guys from Big Rock and Long Props. Great DVD, amazing the places they get in and out of.
BTW - I had my first expieriance on floats. Frikking awesome and man is that water hard. You really feel it.