Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: fscott on August 23, 2001, 02:46:00 AM
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Simply the most beautiful flight sim of any sort I've ever flown.
Flight models are simplified. I hope they get much better in final.
Very nice smooth control of aircraft.
Oleg was a little concerned that this version of the demo that many people downloaded, like me, was not the demo he had just uploaded to Ubisoft, tonite...
Some people claiming the first file was an old demo...
Anyways, Oleg uploaded the demo he wanted to release, so either way you can get the demo.
Oleg is the man behind IL-2.
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Yup, it's absolutely beautiful. I totally sucked at it... but wow, very nice. I shot a couple of things down, but by pure accident.
Oh btw, that cool low level ground texture effect is the exact same thing as what's in AH's beta. Gonna be great to see that here.
It's such a....hmm... what's the word for it?.. French for I don't know what. Boxed games have the best of one world, and nothing of the other. I just can't do them for more than a few hours anymore. But they're damn sweet for what they are, and if I were a kid who got grounded and had his internet connection yanked from me, I sure would be thankfull to have IL-2 loaded. It's a very nice sim. Sure beats what I was flying as a kid (the white dot is your plane, that line is your runway, those zig zag lines on yer right are mountains).
Very impressive piece of work by Oleg and crew.
[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]
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the demo i downloaded has a terrible film on the windows of the 109. it is really distracting and makes flying difficult. other than that, the AI is terrific and there are a ton of details.
it seems like no sim can truly lose the dark ground thing - it is the single biggest hurdle with every sim but il2 is promising.
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Originally posted by fscott:
Simply the most beautiful flight sim of any sort I've ever flown.
Flight models are simplified. I hope they get much better in final.
Very nice smooth control of aircraft.
Oleg was a little concerned that this version of the demo that many people downloaded, like me, was not the demo he had just uploaded to Ubisoft, tonite...
Some people claiming the first file was an old demo...
Anyways, Oleg uploaded the demo he wanted to release, so either way you can get the demo.
Oleg is the man behind IL-2.
simplified?
This is like real,not like AH with the Stall109.
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Huh?
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Oh brother, it's Possi again.
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After flying the demo a bit I think the AH Il2 and the Il2 Sturmovik Il2 had very similar flight characteristics.
Yes Possi, we know, the German stuff was the bestest at everything. :rolleyes: Any sim that models it any different is junk.
I fully expect you to be complaining to Oleg Maddox when your invincible Bf109 is out turned by an I-16 in Il2.
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Not squeaking or anything but wouldn't it be helpful to post a link to the download? :rolleyes:
(no, it's not listed on Ubisoft's site)
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The flight model isnt simplified, but it has lots of strange behaviors, most of them related to stall modeling and some flight data is incorrect.
Oleg(the main dev) said, that they will adjust all FM:s before it will go gold.
One bad thing is, that the pilot has too much power moving control surfaces on fast speed. Theres little or no compression.
The gunnery is altough much much better than in AH. Theres no hit bubbles and you need to hit the actual wireframe.
That makes for example the dead 6 shooting very hard, if you try to hit wings or buff motors. You have to be in perfect trim and concentrate fully on your shooting to get some damage to your opponent.
I can grab g2 with pods and shoot long burst from 6 aiming the engine on buff, but sometimes they all miss with inches. It has very cool track playback, so you can watch those tracers flying soo close but not hitting.
Also the effects from hits make you feel, that youre shooting bullets and not lasers. Critical hits make very cool smoke cloud and if you shoot some big target ahead of you, you sometimes lose the sight completely as the smoke blocks it.
Theres no hit flashes from MG:s, only small particles blowing off, which cant be seen from far. SNiping is for that reason almost impossible, as it should be, when you cant verify hits with meteor flashes.
Il-2 will definetly give new, fresh ideas to flight sim genre. If it would have MA like AH, it would be very competitive with AH, maybe even better.
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I found this link to be very fast.
http://coolaero.altajeux.com (http://coolaero.altajeux.com)
I am downloading the demo as we speak to see how it compares to the current version of the beta I have.
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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
My AH homepage (http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens)
(http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/209.gif)
[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: LLv34_Snefens ]
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NM thx snefens.
[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: rosco- ]
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It damn well better be good, 28 hours to go.
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Hit bubble? We have a hit bubble? :eek:
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This is the first Time in a Flysim that the FM and Ammo is correct.
Mr.Hitech check this Demo out :),you do somethink wrong on your Sim :D
[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Possi ]
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just got the demo, looks GREAT! Don't know if I'll buy it or not when it comes out. Maybe if you can hire canopy washers I will :D
Possi, go away, you're annoying, and you're ruining the fun for me.
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arggg.. il2.exe isn't even starting..
First thing I noticed, was that all those files were read only and then setup was willing to save settings (Hm, how has it become so popular to keep files read-only?)
*tries more*
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AH doesnt use hit bubbles, nor skins. It uses the actual planes frame.
xBAT
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Not sure of problem starting game but try this, create a new folder name it anything you like, open IL2 zip file select all and extract it to the new folder you just created. Inside the new folder you will see a IL2 icon you can start the game from.
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Batdog - thank you, I thought that was the case but some of our (obviously) ex-AW brethren didn't bother finding out about the sim they'd switched to :D
Fishu - I'm on 70%, leaving the sucker overnight (thank God for full time free connections at work :D)- it had better work tomorrow!!! :eek:
Possi - go away, it's not funny comeback when you grow up a little, there's a good boy ;)
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I might DL just to see what it looks like, but I wouldn't buy it even if it's the greatest sim model. I'm just not that interested in the Eastern front. I sincerely hope they can do well with such a niche sim, as it sounds like they're doing a good job.
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I may not buy it either. I just CANNOT get into single - player games, which are wannabe multiplayer, as in Operation Flashpoint.
I said the same thing about Flashpoint, that I wouldn't buy it cause of it's low multiplayer count, I ended up buying it, and haven't played it for 2 months.
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Originally posted by Nifty:
I might DL just to see what it looks like, but I wouldn't buy it even if it's the greatest sim model. I'm just not that interested in the Eastern front. I sincerely hope they can do well with such a niche sim, as it sounds like they're doing a good job.
Nifty week up,there a lot Addons on the Way,new Planes(Spit,P-51,B-24 and and and)new Maps....you dont know this Infos,i think you are a Simfreak?
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Originally posted by Possi:
Nifty week up,there a lot Addons on the Way,new Planes(Spit,P-51,B-24 and and and)new Maps....you dont know this Infos,i think you are a Simfreak?
Let me know when the American and British planes are in the game, and I'll consider purchasing. From what I had heard in passing, only Eastern front planes would be modelled in the release. I think it was in Computer Gaming World or something of the sort. That's where I got my first info on it, and it didn't interest me enough to go dig up more info on the game itself. I'll go check out more accurate info, and adjust my conclusions accordingly. Thanks for pointing out the possibility of the add-ons.
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The graphics simply kick ass. It really is visually stunning.
Other than that.. I really hope they do some major overhauls before releasing this game retail.
AKDejaVu
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Just read this... Didnt know they alaredy had a topic posted on it here...
I Think Il2 is Revolutionary.. IT has the most Unique detailed and abstract ways of simulating reaility.... Freaking 2 thumbs up!
If this goes Multiplayer.. with better planeset... It will be the start of a whole new Gernation of Combat Flight sims... Its utterly amazing
and this is only the DEMO! wtf.. so its not even a complete fully finished tweaked product.
I think theres a new Kid in town... and his name is IL2.....
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Originally posted by mrfish:
the demo i downloaded has a terrible film on the windows of the 109. it is really distracting and makes flying difficult.
Go to the hoopty Ctrl F1 view. It makes it easy to see everything for checking out the graphics, and removes that hideous grey dirt or whatever it is in cockpit mode.
WWII Fighters has better cockpits btw.
Say, did Nash post somewhere AH might get ground similiar to this? That would be the toejam. I mean THAT would really loft AH.
Bigger airbases too. The small bases in AH have no immersion of size.
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[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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Yeah Creamo, it's some kinda texture overlay that's in the DirectX beta. You can download it here, and it's a seperate application so ya can have a look and it wont mess up your regular AH app. Except for a slightly different look to the texture IL-2 is using, it's really basically the same thing. The sense of speed down low is incredible.
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ctrl+f1 makes the whole cockpit go away! that sucks that it's the only way to see the graphics from the 109. they arent that great anyway - the ground is too dark to see anything til you are right on it and there are way too many flourescent colors in the game.
whats with the red and green smoke coming off the wing tips at all times? and the techno-green tracers? the cowl gins light up my whole view and the flashes affect targeting.
i was kinda waiting for this and really expecting a lot - that's probably why i'm a little let down by it really. the cockpit interior views and the mouse view thingy and working slats are great and there are some cool aspects to the sim but it is a let down i say.
that dirty window garbage ruins it above all else - if you're gonna spend all your time in the cockpit it kills the fun if you can't see. and turn the light on man! it's noon and the ground is black - weak.
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damn, the demo has been removed from the sites. SimHQ reports that the demo was the wrong version and shouldn't have been released at all. :(
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I can't take off in that bugger - suddenly my extremly well-calibrated (win2k) joystick is thrown off and i slide sideways down the runway before i crash...
And it doesn't detect DX8 - HA!!!!!!
crapcrapcrap - this is a "beta" demo - maybe i will consider it when it's released, but so far it has just put me off.....
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The Tracers from Germanplanes is blue,from USAF red and Russian got more colors! :)
This is correct Colors,nobody know this? :(
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I have had nothing but Pure DELIGHT from the Demo, Beta or Not...
For those that think they have been let down on this.. hehe ARE YOU ON CRACK!? :D
The Ground roll is Incredible! the Sensation of FLight through the FM and the Overall quality of the Graphics are astounding!
This may have to do with what im running on owever .. but i dunno.. I guess Computer differnces will make the Differnce.
My specs are..:
Geforce 3 64meg Visiontek
PIII800EB
512 Meg 133 ram
30Gig HD
Windows 2000 second update
Dual Throttle System (suncominc)
Thrustmaster Elite Rudders
Saitek lefty Configured Stick
intelli optical mouse..
Blah..
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Other than graphics the games just a ......YAWN.
p0$$3 y3r 4 k3\/\/7 d3\/\/d, 3nj0y 3733t3 Supermarine 109 while it lasts.
I'm sure Oleg will get around to making it realistic eventually.
Guess I'll reinstall the POS and see what the new patch does.
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Mrfish, the smoke from the wings is the "airshow" smoke. You must have put it on by mistake. Toggle it with "T".
Not all tracers are orange/yellow. They came in pretty much all sorts of colours, depending on what material was being used to create the colour.
The muzzle flashes has been discussed over and over again during the development. Oleg showed some wartime photage, and most then agreed that the flashes were pretty much correct.
The story about the demo being unofficial is partly right. Ubisoft released a demo Oleg had sent them about a week ago, without informing him. He had just sent them a newer demo, but this arrived too late. I don't know if they will release this "new" demo.
If someone is having some problems with either control, graphics or sound, be sure to have DX8. It's an requirement.
Currently there are also some known issues with certain Saitek sticks. Oleg posted some about it on SimHq's IL2-board.
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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
My AH homepage (http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens)
(http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/209.gif)
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The demo has been available on FilePlanet (http://fileplanet.com) . Still is.
Everything works fine, although I suggest you build you missions from the mission builder (effortless)for fast "already in the air" dogfights, against what ya want. Over a airbase adds some fun as the AAA is nice.
Yeah, that oil screen is a real bummer, so is the flamethrower guns, but what the hey.
1280 32 bit is silk.
[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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runs kinda slow on my Geforce 2 GTS 32mb, so I'm upgrading to a GF3 before the IL2 and AH 1.08 come out.
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Hmm Possi says the FM is the best ever and purfect really shows what the 109 was like, and yet Oleg has said the FM has to be corrected before going gold.
Guess we best all believe Possi then.
And no i am not gonna download any demo thats 100mb.
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Why are you not going to download a demo that is uttlery amazing caviler?
even if your on slow modem connection, just down load while ya sleep at night
The Download is Extremely worth it.
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Demo is great, can't stop playing it. Make sure all people with graphics problems, go into options and change resolution setting. For some reason "Setup" file doesn't save configurations so everytime you must check that it had config that you want. I have V3 2k with p3 750 and game runs fine with 800x600. I’m having very hard time with just shooting down bombers, with fighters its all most impossible.( for now)
Traces are correct colors, just like flashed from guns. FM is exellent. Stalls are the best ever, specially if you flying P40. I was not abile to stop one of those. Enjoy game, its perfect even now.
Ps HiTech, how about checking it out.
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Lets start with 10 points
Frame rates etc were much better in Jane's WW2 fighters. -2 points
To lower res 800x600 hard to read gauges
-1 point
Forest is just a texture map. few real trees around villages all villages/bridges same.
-.5 point
Saw some city in demo mission, attack transports in poor weather, couldnt find my way back. Don't see way to expand map.
tracers from bombers looked like AW 1.18 giant ping pong balls
-2 points
Trim keys don't seem to work for me, will keep trying.
(grade held off)
Full screen view: "Hey, we wanna be just like fighter ace"
-2 points
Cockpit art very nice.. when shot, no damaged cockpit ie: ww2f
-0 points
Texture tiles same as ours 256x256 (except his scaling is wrong, 500 feet looks like 5,000). If theres any other terrain types other than forest and grass, I don't see them.
-3 points
Why is this demo over 100 mbs Aces High only 11 mbs and has more features?
-5 points
So lets add up:
Start with 10 subtract 13.5 and we have a minus of 3.5 points
Thumbs down
10B
Tried to duel someone online... no support
-100 points
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Some of you guys crack me up. You d/l the game, maybe have a look-see at the config, then try a sortie or two, and decide it needs work. Whatever. Sounds like your minds were made up before you even d/l'ed the damn thing. Not surprised at all. You basically touched the tip of an iceberg of a sim, but you're too busy making yourselves not like it. Fine. Your loss.
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Geezus, 10Bears! While there are texture maps for village layout, there are also stacked sprites to give the effect of 3D trees. Nobody does that, and the effect is awesome. Look! Open your eyes. God.
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I'm outta here. You guys are hopeless. Bye.
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Texture tiles same as ours 256x256 (except his scaling is wrong, 500 feet looks like 5,000). - 10Bears
Don't want to comment on your rating system as I think it is probably a little unfair. But anyways, about the scale...
IL-2 terrain looks vast... immense. Incredibly so. Reminds me of the couple of times Creamo has meantioned the airfields looking huge ("how they are supposed to look"). I cannot figure out what's creating that effect as I think end to end, the runways are about the same length as AH's, or roughly so. Certainly not as far off as to be the only reason why IL-2's airfields look so huge.
So what do you mean by "the scaling is wrong"? What is it about IL-2 that makes 500 ft look like 5,000? It's a very strange thing to me... I was thinking that perhaps the roads are giving it this effect. I dunno... can't put my finger on it.
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OK, lets start with 10 points.
800x600 res, but I will be upgrading about the time Il2 is actually released. More modern games require more powerful systems, it has always been that way.
-0
Forest is done in an inovative way, it doesn't look great from down low, but from up high it is very very nice and it has no framerate hit.
-0
Full screen view: set the game to full realism and it doesn't allow this mode.
-0
Cockpit art: Dirty windows are VERY annoying.
-1
Clouds are the best I've seen in a sim.
+.5
I give the demo a 9.5. I am judging it as a demo. Anybody remember EAWs demo? That sucked so bad I almost didn't buy EAW. EAW turned out to be much, much better than the demo.
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Well - I dunno what system you're running it on, 10bearsm, but it runs great at max detail in 1024 x32 on my Athlon 800, Geforce 2 MX 32 meg. You could slap a system like mine together for a few hundred bucks nowadays. Was doing multi with two others, smooth as silk, even around explosions, smoke and clouds.
I DID find OpenGL rendering to be MUCH smoother and faster. Maybe give that a shot.
I'm blown away by this _beta demo_. Simply amazing - the detail in everything blows me away. Those forest look awesome to me on high detail, and I'm happy to get great frame rate, even low over a smoking city. I think it's a great balance between detail and frame rate.
Full-screen view is a realism setting you can disable in multiplayer. If you don't like the arcadey settings, just disable em on your server. Simple as that.
PS: Try the quick mission editor, set up a night mission in a thunderstorm :)
Spitboy -SW-
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Just wash those windows and we got a winner.
Oh 10b for some reason my sights collapsed when Il-2 gunner gave me some lead. Guess it was damaged ?
What made me smile was when I killed Iljushins gunner and put all of my ammoes on that plane I saw the pilot throw his canopy away and jumped out from plane :D
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Ctrl-E on the runway for a giggle. "Duck and Cover!!!!"
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*Shakes head at 10bears*
With that kind of analysis of the demo I wonder why you would want to play AH then (looks bad at 800x600 too, no forests, cockpits not the best etc.)
Spend some time configuring the settings. (and Uncheck the "read only" to allow them to be saved) That should make it run just fine on higher resolutions (I don't know exactly what rig you have)
The clipboard can be zoomed, scrolled and moved around on the screen. (hint, use mouse) Tracers may look weird when paused but are just fine I think when in motion.
Forest are not just a texture, but bitmap layers and to me they seem realistic in most cases. Beats having no forrest at all.
You seem to like realism, since you complain about how the cockpit can be turned off. Just select a higher difficulty and this is no more an option. In multiplay (YES its there) the host's options are forced upon all players.
Same realism might be why you can't get your trim to work right. 109 didn't have trim on all 3 axis. It only had for the elevator (pilot controlled at least)
Texture in terrain is the best I have seen yet. The way more details become visible as you get close to the ground is awesome. Almost feels like you can see individual rocks. To see what I mean look at a plane standing on the ground in IL-2 compared to AH. In the latter the ground is "smeared out" (tho I hear that the same effect as in IL-2 is being added)
This gives a great sense of speed down low.
Size is due to much more sounds for each plane. Not just one default engine sound etc, which is why AH-download is so small (11mb yes, but my AH sound folders with custom sounds is 43MB)
IL-2 is gonna be a boxed sim, stored on a CD. No need to "save" space.
Hold the door Leonid, I am right behind you. :(
Snef
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Outta 25 or so people who expressed their opinion, there's only about 4-5 nays, a couple of luke warms, and the rest are positive. You'll never see 100% of everyone liking something. 4-5 guys don't like it... so what? Shouldn't bother anyone.
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ok ok I was a little too quick to criticize your sim I apologize. First impression eh. Tried your other mission and that seemed better.
Played around with the settings but still couldn't get the silky smooth frame rates others said they had.. And I don't think I have a low end system.. Pent3 866x 256 ram gforce2 32 mbs..
Using AH as FM benchmark, and Flashpoint as graphics benchmark. Fire smoke clouds all look good. Sun reflecting off rivers, clouds creating shadows on ground, point lighting all very nice.
I see you can change the skins.. thats good. If the boxed game has an option to create your own maps... that'd be good too.
Mission/campaign scripting.. like ww2f would be a plus.
Multiplayer support. Even if its only 8 players there should be good support, finding/configuring games etc. Janes made a BIG mistake including multiplayer support as an afterthought.
If you guys could make the sound file another download, that would be better.
Again I apologize for criticizing your sim wasn't my intention to get you mad... Wasn't ment to be read by the developers.
10B
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10Bears,
I doubt that any of the developers saw your post, but you did come on very negative about what is by far the best boxed sim I have ever seen a demo of.
I believe that the game will ship with 32 player capability.
There is supposed to be a full mission editor in the full game, but I don't know about campaign. The campaign editor would be neat though.
It runs OK on my system, Athlon Classic 700 with a GeForce2 GTS and 512mb of PC133 RAM, at 800x600. Even AH is starting to ask for a new system. The smoke in both games kills my frame rate.
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10,
No damage in cocpit? Please try again. I got nailed by Ju88 and it was full of holed. Please play game with open mind. Try to take down one bomber with full(FULL) realism on.
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I'm loving this beta. The graphics are great but I've never been a big graphics fanatic. But the FM's have a nice feel to them, and that's what will decide whether I end up buying it. High speed handling seemed optimistic, and you can drop gear and flaps at very high speeds before any damage occurs. Also, the 109 seemed to climb very quickly up to 30K, but since I couldn't find the VSI, maybe it was my imagination. The sky at high altitude is midnight blue, too dark imho.
Spins are hard to get out of, frikken nice!
Landing is a challenge, I hope they model carriers some day.
Overall it is very playable even as a beta.
My only serious complaint is that max visibility seems to be 5 or 10 miles. This is probably done to save FR, but longer visibility gives you a better sense of flying through a 3D world, rather than in a fishbowl. As a multiplayer game it may appeal more to people with higher-end systems at first.
ra
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Il2 in my own personal opinon is leaps and bounds ahead of where aces is in alot of areas. This may be due to the fact that IL2 is being funded or distributed on large scale by a major company.
IL2 so far even in its Beta/demo/deloping state is An entire generation ahead of where aces is now.
If IL2 were to create a dedicated server system that Aces has, I could definatly see it becoming the next aces high/warbirds REAL QUICK.
It has to be understood that ACES vs IL2 in a sense is not really a vaild or fair comparison though... Even with all the truths that each program hold.
The moment that IL2 starts having dedicated servers with more than just 32 people, and starts having up to 260 people online at one time in an arena environment, I will say YES its better than aces.
Right now its kinda like compareing apples and oranges .... TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.
For all those who think that the graphics are not good or eh.. not so impressive with IL2. Look at it with everything set to excellent with a Geforce 3.... Then look at aces..
I think that the TREE effect is GENIOUS!!!!
IT is the MOST REALISTIC EFFECT I HAVE EVER seen. That is truley a leap forward in getting alot done, with little effort. (no real polys)
<S> oleg way to freaking go.
anyway... Im sure that MORE of IL2 and its new(ness) will be arising in the future, boxed, unboxed, or whatever....
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The biggest flight model issue I have is the roll rates on the P-39 and Bf109. They are WAY too fast. The 109 rolls like the Fw190 does in AH, and the Fw190 in AH is pretty close to the NACA charts according to Hristo's tests. The P-39 rolls like nothing I've ever seen in a sim.
I hope that Oleg is talking about this kind of thing when he says that the FM still has to be tweaked.
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My only serious complaint is that max visibility seems to be 5 or 10 miles. This is probably done to save FR, but longer visibility gives you a better sense of flying through a 3D world, rather than in a fishbowl.
Visibility can be configured for long distance - at least in the beta version I'm testing.
As a multiplayer game it may appeal more to people with higher-end systems at first.
I agree with this comment, my system begins to choke in some situations at max quality/distance settings.
I downloaded the beta2 updates earlier and they make a HUGE difference in gameplay, it's a nice BOXED game, I still prefer Aces High over it.
I'm not a fan of fighting AI and I absolutely hate having to jerk around with configuring missions and overly complex user interfaces.
K.I.S.S. principle is always better IMO.
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After a few more hours in this thing, I think they have done a real nice job. Some not so important, but shows alot of detail.
Things I like.
- Bailing out graphics. Nice touch. On the ground they throw off the canopy, run fast as hell, dive in a heap and cover their heads. Highly amusing!
- Ground texture. Add this to Aces High, and hurry. Great bases, great depth, sense of speed, trees, towns, stuff at airports that should be there, roads, and best of all, rivers that look superb.
- Spins. I always thought AH lacked spins. Although they may be a bit over done here, they seem way closer to what you would expect. Plus they are a bugger to get out of. Highly rewarding when you use the right stuff and do.
- Skins. The planes look great, and you can download and install them with ease? Nice.
- Interface. Could it be any easier to set up custom missions, add a skin, setup multiplayer, choose mode of play etc...? Interface is key, and they did it well. Multiplayer you can adjust everything from blackouts, to keeping the realistic cockpit.
- Load times. Bring a cooler, you won't have time as the mission load to get a fresh beer. Fast, fast, fast.
- Frame rates. Who knows what Im getting, but 1280 32 bit is very smooth. My roommate custom built his system with a GeForce3, and 1600X1200 is fantastic. Smooth too.
- AI. They guys can make most AH players look like drones. How you program good AI I can't imagine.
- Impact graphics. There is nothing better than shooting down a plane and watching the concusion ring blast out from the explosion area when it hits. Single Malt Scotch for HiTech if he adds that in.
- Sounds. Oh go and play the CT and talk about what spark plug gap was on the FW190-4b/d (add hoopty varient jargon here)realitards. The fly-by sounds in IL2 are super sweet and really adds a sense of speed and engaging immersion. A real cockpit might be just a roar of noise, I don't care. VVVRRRRRooooooMMMMM! I like it.
- FM. You need to spend weeks to figure out all what a sim is doing in this department, but it seemed pretty good, if not just a bit incomplete. I like AH so much here, Im bias. Again, kudos on the spins.
- It will be released playable. No toejam, that's pretty good these days. Even a demo was fun, and I had zero problems with it. Couple that with the fact someone is making a WWII sim, hell ya. Why squeak about more WWII sims!? It aint a POS. That's WWIIOL.
- Weather. I had to laugh out loud like a fool the first time a lightning bolt struck the ground and lit up my wing with light. Very nice. Clouds are superb, rain too! I had a time tracking some JU88's in a very realistic IFR flight.
- Realistic guages. Like those.
- Map. Scalable and shows were your going, very easy and useful. Im to lazy to remember vectors and stuff.
Things I don't like.
- Feels too much like WWII Fighters, but that's the massive amount of AH time talking I guess.
- Dirty windows. Call the ground crew for Gods sake and get some windex. I just hate that.
- Flamethrower guns. They built a atomic bomb, and could make muzzleflash suppressors? Ok, but give me the option to turn them down, real or not.
- Default cockpit is a bit blurry, a bit dark, and not as good as WWII Fighters. Not bad, but a option to go with a readable cockpit like AH would help. Can't squeak about the guages though. They seem authentic.
- FM. It isn't complete.
- Had some joystick setup problems, made the rudder feel all screwy.
- Replayability. Will it have a big campaign, or good multiplayer? Time will tell I suppose.
More WWII sims please. I like it.
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Originally posted by Karnak:
The biggest flight model issue I have is the roll rates on the P-39 and Bf109. They are WAY too fast. The 109 rolls like the Fw190 does in AH, and the Fw190 in AH is pretty close to the NACA charts according to Hristo's tests. The P-39 rolls like nothing I've ever seen in a sim.
I hope that Oleg is talking about this kind of thing when he says that the FM still has to be tweaked.
No,the the roll rates are real not like in AH!Bf109 Pilots test it out!
I also see in Germany Bf109 flying and the roll very fast like in IL-2 :)
Come back from the AH FM,complicated is not equivalent realistic!!!
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Originally posted by Creamo:
After a few more hours in this thing, I think they have done a real nice job. Some not so important, but shows alot of detail.
Things I like.
- Bailing out graphics. Nice touch. On the ground they throw off the canopy, run fast as hell, dive in a heap and cover their heads. Highly amusing!
- Ground texture. Add this to Aces High, and hurry. Great bases, great depth, sense of speed, trees, towns, stuff at airports that should be there, roads, and best of all, rivers that look superb.
- Spins. I always thought AH lacked spins. Although they may be a bit over done here, they seem way closer to what you would expect. Plus they are a bugger to get out of. Highly rewarding when you use the right stuff and do.
- Skins. The planes look great, and you can download and install them with ease? Nice.
- Interface. Could it be any easier to set up custom missions, add a skin, setup multiplayer, choose mode of play etc...? Interface is key, and they did it well. Multiplayer you can adjust everything from blackouts, to keeping the realistic cockpit.
- Load times. Bring a cooler, you won't have time as the mission load to get a fresh beer. Fast, fast, fast.
- Frame rates. Who knows what Im getting, but 1280 32 bit is very smooth. My roommate custom built his system with a GeForce3, and 1600X1200 is fantastic. Smooth too.
- AI. They guys can make most AH players look like drones. How you program good AI I can't imagine.
- Impact graphics. There is nothing better than shooting down a plane and watching the concusion ring blast out from the explosion area when it hits. Single Malt Scotch for HiTech if he adds that in.
- Sounds. Oh go and play the CT and talk about what spark plug gap was on the FW190-4b/d (add hoopty varient jargon here)realitards. The fly-by sounds in IL2 are super sweet and really adds a sense of speed and engaging immersion. A real cockpit might be just a roar of noise, I don't care. VVVRRRRRooooooMMMMM! I like it.
- FM. You need to spend weeks to figure out all what a sim is doing in this department, but it seemed pretty good, if not just a bit incomplete. I like AH so much here, Im bias. Again, kudos on the spins.
- It will be released playable. No toejam, that's pretty good these days. Even a demo was fun, and I had zero problems with it. Couple that with the fact someone is making a WWII sim, hell ya. Why squeak about more WWII sims!? It aint a POS. That's WWIIOL.
- Weather. I had to laugh out loud like a fool the first time a lightning bolt struck the ground and lit up my wing with light. Very nice. Clouds are superb, rain too! I had a time tracking some JU88's in a very realistic IFR flight.
- Realistic guages. Like those.
- Map. Scalable and shows were your going, very easy and useful. Im to lazy to remember vectors and stuff.
Things I don't like.
- Feels too much like WWII Fighters, but that's the massive amount of AH time talking I guess.
- Dirty windows. Call the ground crew for Gods sake and get some windex. I just hate that.
- Flamethrower guns. They built a atomic bomb, and could make muzzleflash suppressors? Ok, but give me the option to turn them down, real or not.
- Default cockpit is a bit blurry, a bit dark, and not as good as WWII Fighters. Not bad, but a option to go with a readable cockpit like AH would help. Can't squeak about the guages though. They seem authentic.
The Cockpit from WWII Fighters is Dark in real!
- FM. It isn't complete.[/QB][/QUOTE]
There is to change like 3-5%
-109 have no Stallspins like a P-39!
- Had some joystick setup problems, made the rudder feel all screwy.[/QB][/QUOTE]
There is a option you can change it by your self!
- Replayability. Will it have a big campaign, or good multiplayer? Time will tell I suppose.[/QB][/QUOTE]
I play a lot Coop-Mission with Betatesters and i love it!
More WWII sims please. I like it.[/QB][/QUOTE]
Yes lets be happy a Bugfree Sims is out,not like B-17II,BoB,WW2ol and and and
-[/QB][/QUOTE]
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Possi,
Well, the Bf109 may have had 5 times the roll rate of a P-51D, but its funny how that has never been mentioned by any of the pilots of either aircraft.
HiTech has flown a P-51D, IIRC, and and thus the P-51D flight model in AH is almost certainly close to the real one.
As to the P-39, I'm sorry, but modern combat jet fighters roll slower than that. Unboosted, non-fly-by-wire aircraft simply shouldn't roll faster than the best modern combat aircraft.
BTW, I wouldn't put too much stock in the fact that Bf109 pilots have given their input. 'Bud' Anderson gave his input for WWII Fighters, and look what a joke that FM is. There was a NovaLogic "sim", F-16 vs. MiG-29 I think, in which they got test pilots from both manufacturers to assist. The Russian guy had very scathing things to say about how they took the input. The American guy said of the final thing that the USAF and Russian Air Force wished they had aircraft that performed that good. My point is that having actual pilots involved is frequently more of a marketing ploy than an attempt to make the FM more accurate. I know Oleg has poured a lot of effort into this, and it really shows, but please, look at it with a skeptics eyes. Don't assume that it is absolutely correct.
Thanks.
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Holy Creamo.... You nailed it.
The only thing that I can add (and it annoys me tons)... Is that despite the mouse view being able to pan around and check your 6, there's no key that can do it. Can't map one either.
As long as the mouse lets ya do it, then the linda blair argument is out the window. So why can't a key do it? I don't use hats, I use keys for my views. I also use keys for everything else except pointing my plane at things and shooting. There's no way I can control a joystick, the kb and a mouse at the same time. So I get no 6 view. Seems it woulda been simple to add a 6 view key , yet the lack of one means no 6 view for me, so this is pretty much a show stopper as far as me playing this. I can't.
Erhm.. so that's my rant. Otherwise, my opinion is identical to Creamo's. I think it has tons going for it.
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Good lord Possi, that is the most aborted reponce/mess I think I've seen...ever. yikes
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Oh btw...
The whole landscape scale/depth thing... I did more comparing of the two, and AH is much much broader... which suprised me. I think that the depth (for lack of a better word) of IL-2 has *everything* to do with the ground texture. What the difference is I dunno exactly... but there's a lot to be learned from it. If we could have something like that with AH's terrains it would be awesome.
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Yeah, ditto on the 6 view thing, and I forgot to add I didn't know how to trim it which is another biggy I really like in AH.
Ill have to look at this landscape/depth thing, I hadn't noticed.
(Say, check out the rear gunner in the IL2, another thing very well done.)
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Wow, sounds like it will be an excellent sim.
Possi, just curious here, why pick out just the negative points in Creamo's post when he gave so many high marks in other areas? Bugfree Sim? I guess you think it is finished by that statement. OTW to d/l it now. I think it is great for a sim to have advocates, but to be totally blind to its weaknesses and unfinished portions does not help your influence here.
trm
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I don't mind no 6 view... I just don't like what happens when you go to check your rear-left and go to far with the hat button and are now looking at your ass. I guess I don't understand why they would feel a 6 view is impossible, but somehow you could inspect the cussion of your seat with great detail while in flight. I guess the lack of one view was for realism, but the other was simply showing off.
The spins are tough at first, but easy once you learn to use the flaps. Recovering from them is where you learn just how screwey the FM can get. You can fall 2000 feet with your nose pointed straight down and not pick up more than 20 mph of airspeed? That's pretty amazing. Where they kinda lose me on stall exiting, they get me on stall entering. It seems you can controll the way you enter a stall in a much more predictable manner. Even when you go into a flat spin, you know why it happened... and you learn how to avoid it. No sudden snap stalls and no eternal hanging in mid air. The stalls seem to be directly correlated to appropriate actions.
The rest of the FM needs some work... that is the actual flight portion. The roll rate is rediculous in flight, and the rudder authority on the ground seems very screwey. In addition, I get zero feeling of motion while in the aircraft. That combined with the dirty window effect makes it quite difficult to tell wich way is up even on a clear day.
One tip to those having serious control problems... reduce your resolution. I was getting smooth framerates in 1600x1200x32, but the plane was virtually uncontrollable. I reduced to 1024x768 and the plane responded better to micro stick adjustments.
Also... I cannot use the "DirectX 8" graphics options. The framerates drop through the floor. OpenGL provides increadibly smooth gameplay. Has anyone else noticed this?
Oh... and my biggest gripe about this game has to do with NOE flying. 1000 feet feels exactly like 100 or 10. Where they kick bellybutton in speed sensation close to the ground, they are sorely lacking in feeling of altitude.
I'll definately be buying this game. But I'm also hoping that some tweaking occurs with both the view system and the FM (stalls included).
AKDejaVu
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100 meg D/L + 56K modem = "I'll wait for the boxed version".
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Hey Rip.. that may be a while... if you can't wait you can always get a copy on CD from me when you're in town. I'd mail it to you, but you're a tard. ;)
AKDejaVu
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I’ve never flown any combat a/c but P39 does feel like stunt a/c in FS2000. I like that a lot.
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Geeze RIP ,I got it on a 19.2 connection. Took me all night and most of the day yesterday. If you started it tonight before bed you could probably have it by morning.
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Also... I cannot use the "DirectX 8" graphics options. The framerates drop through the floor. OpenGL provides increadibly smooth gameplay. Has anyone else noticed this?
Yup - same. DX produced lower frame rate, some jerkiness, and a REAL chug around smoke. OpenGL was smooth as glass. Geforce 2 MX400 here. Visually, I couldn't tell much difference, but performance-wise, OpenGL was MUCH better.
I agree about the dirty windshields. Way overdone - I think a few smudge spots would be fine, but it's too much as is.
Spitboy -SW-
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I dont understand why people think aces high has correct rollrates...
not to start a big flame war or anything but, Il2 rolls the 109 much more realistic compared to that of aces high..
the Simple reason is that the Roll rates in aces are Mushed down to compensate for lag and warp rolls.
I dont know if any of you recall, but some posted a film of a spit fire ina czeck movie or sothing to that effect.. and it had some real footage of spits rolling and fighting.. (no not the Computer graphics protions either) the real footage, had the planes roll EXTREMLY smooth and fast....
This is the same for how the 109 rolls in IL2
Its reponsive just as it should be.
its the same in x-plane too, that ive been tooting along from the beginning... there is no DAMPEND down flight control responsive ness...
Aces and warbirds have dampening... so right from the start the FM is alterd (lessend toa bit to compensate for internet use)
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You make assumptions on things you know nothing about. You really should avoid any FM comparisons deez... you really end up looking like a tard in the end.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by rosco-:
Geeze RIP ,I got it on a 19.2 connection. Took me all night and most of the day yesterday. If you started it tonight before bed you could probably have it by morning.
I always get disco's overnite , Earthstink network.
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Deja, what town do you live in? Wife and I are head to O once new car arrives, for overnite, staying at Newport Beach, but will be hitting Evergreen and Tillicum enroute...no dates certain yet, most likely the weekend after Labor day...
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AKDejaVu
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Posts: 4030 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Dec 1999 | IP: Logged
Tard.
You must hit McMinville and see the Evergreen Flight Museum too. They have the Spruce Goose on display now.
I'm going to be taking Thursday and Friday of that week off (in conjunction with weekend after Laborday). We should plan something for then.
AKDejaVu
[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
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Ya, hopefully I will have gotten a 'call' by then, we'll speak to ya..
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Geez...it's hard to please the Airheads of the world... LOL
;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
I always get disco's overnite , Earthstink network.
Getright. Resume downloading and redial if disconnected. Might take 2 nights then :)
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Creamo trim controls are left ctrl z/x for rudder, right ctrl up/down arrow elevator and right ctrl left/right arrow ailerons. If they did not include key map let me know i got a copy of it... Yak
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P-39 roll rate:
In America's Hundred Thousand there is a chart which compares the roll rates of most US fighters. Above 200mph the P-39 rolls slower than the F6F, P51, P47, and P40. So if you think Il-2's P39 roll rate is accurate, then you will love the other US fighters when they are modeled.
I love the FM of this sim but it needs tweaking.
ra
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I guess I don't understand why they would feel a 6 view is impossible, but somehow you could inspect the cussion of your seat with great detail while in flight. I guess the lack of one view was for realism, but the other was simply showing off. - Deja
Yeah - but this is exactly what I don't understand. By letting you check 6 with a mouse, they're saying "yeah, it's possible". Yet they omitted a key for doing this while including every other view key. Having no 6 view at all is a pain in the arse - not fun. I am *not* going to learn how to fly with one hand on the joystick, and the other on a freaking mouse (a mouse!). As far as multiplayer goes, some will be using a mouse - and they will have quite an advantage.
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Ah ha Cleaner, ill try that thanks. I mapped the keys on the Saitek today for views, so getting a much better handle on the demo. Any suggestions for the 6 view? I can only get it with the mouse? Also, can the pan of the views be any quicker? Maybe beta testers know, but I assume it's supposed to model realistic head movment, but it's WAY to slow. I want my AH views.
And Rip, how in the hell can you hijack a thread called "IL-2 demo released" with another "I'm going to the store, does anyone live near Kmart? We can have a meeting + greet the AH community luncheon" and yet another whoopee plug about that new car? Buy it, make the outragous payment, and start a whole new thread on it. Can't see what it has to do with IL-2.
Amazing.
Oh, and one more addition for things good in IL-2. The freakin con trails are great! I mean really immesive, well done, and when AH gets them, it will be a good discussion about effects on icon ranges and realism. Im surprised no one mentioned that.
Even if I believe it will be just a good box sim, the features it will introduce will no doubt infuence AH. That's good. Real good.
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Originally posted by Creamo:
[QB]Any suggestions for the 6 view? QB]
The only way I've gotten close to it is by using the snap views(toggle them by hitting F8) but you have to navigate your "head" by using multiple presses of the hat switch to get there. Its irritating and slow. I wish the pan views would work. If they didn't want to give you a **direct** 6 view then so be it--don't display one. But if I want to look back/left or right why not be able to simply pan that way? You can get that view on the keypad but back/left is KP1 and back/right is KP3. Irritating. Like someone already said--its kinda stupid to be able to check out your seat cushion but not your 6. Makes sense to me!
Mostly it just disorients me as that's how I've always looked around in flight sims. I'll get over it--or maybe THEY will.
So far that's one of my VERY few peaves about this demo. It rocks otherwise.
Drano
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http://www.bluebyte.net/forum/eng/m.asp?bid=41&tid=122824&id=%27%27 (http://www.bluebyte.net/forum/eng/m.asp?bid=41&tid=122824&id=%27%27)
Some screenies
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Say - did anyone see a stick calibration routine in IL2? I found the page for adjusting the settings, but nothing to actually calibrate. For some reason it sees my centered rudder as being half left, so all I can get is movement from center to full left. Tough to fly that way :) Rudder is set fine in AH - and everything else for that matter.
- Yoj
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Originally posted by Yoj:
Say - did anyone see a stick calibration routine in IL2? I found the page for adjusting the settings, but nothing to actually calibrate. For some reason it sees my centered rudder as being half left, so all I can get is movement from center to full left. Tough to fly that way :) Rudder is set fine in AH - and everything else for that matter.
- Yoj
Yaknow I didn't see one either Yoj. It shows my rudder as being SLIGHTLY left while the stick axii are centered. Its only slight in my case and I found messing with the scaling for it took most of it out--or made it worse. Give that a shot.
Drano
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hey You guys... Drano if you guys want to see a Very good example of how/why I use the mouse I will be MORE than happy TO send you a Track I recorded with it in an intense dogfight.
I urge you guys to see it even :D
let me and Ill send you the file..
-Deez :)