Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nilsen on May 25, 2006, 02:45:26 AM
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... and have too much money compared to your brain capacity :D
This 2 million dollar Fairline 58 hit rocks on its maiden voiage from the shipyard. The owner who wishes to be anonymous (doh!) Didnt even get it back to his dock. He used GPS to navigate and has prolly never seen a map in his life.
Reminds me of someone else that hit some rocks... hmm cant remember who
(http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00249/Luksusyacht__Fairli_249161c.jpg)
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Shoulda had a better GPS, I guess.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Shoulda had a better GPS, I guess.
Does not matter how good your GPS is if you cant use a map and your eyes are glued to the screen rather than were thy are supposed to be
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If the rocks were visible, then a map wouldn't have helped. Piloting his boat properly would have. A GPS is a fine substitute for a map as long as it is functioning, especially if the GPS has all of the same data as the map.
Don't blame the GPS, blame the guy who didn't know how to use the tools he had.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
If the rocks were visible, then a map wouldn't have helped. Piloting his boat properly would have. A GPS is a fine substitute for a map as long as it is functioning, especially if the GPS has all of the same data as the map.
Don't blame the GPS, blame the guy who didn't know how to use the tools he had.
thats what i did..
GPS is useless if you cant navigate, read a map or use your eyes.
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I've tried out that TomTom navigator thing that's available here, but I would never buy one. I could not bring myself to abandon myself to such a device from the moment of starting the engine. The time I tried it, I became suspicious when previewing the directions, which sounded completely wrong, only to find that my destination shared its name with another village about 30 miles away.
GPS for use in airborne navigation is excellent, however.
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A good GPS for naval use would have included ocean floor information and map with average depths. The "captain" must not have been paying attention.
Also, judging by the alge growth on the water line, I doubt that is the maiden voyage of that boat. Maybe the first cruise of the clown that bought though.
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I used to laugh at the new skippers with thier lorans, radars and sounders/plotters.
Nobody ever looked at any of that stuff till AFTER they ran aground.
Then they'd look at the screens, push some buttons and say.. "we're arground!!"
Like.. 'Surprise!'
LOL!
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Originally posted by Midnight
A good GPS for naval use would have included ocean floor information and map with average depths. The "captain" must not have been paying attention.
Also, judging by the alge growth on the water line, I doubt that is the maiden voyage of that boat. Maybe the first cruise of the clown that bought though.
Brand new boat picked up by the owner. May ofcourse have been sitting in the water at the shipyard, and perhaps not even painted with that bottom stuff.
Does not matter what kind of GPS unit it has (im guessing standard issue garmin on those high-end boats) if you dont pay attention.
GPS has a 3-5 meter accuracy up here, and that is more than enough to get you stuck on a rock. I bet that it is 100% likley that you will if you would navigate up say 50 nm miles along our coastline. I remember from my days in the navy that we were not allowed to navigate using GPS within 1nm from shore because visual navigation and good seamanship is more accurate.
This kind of ""accident"" happens more and more as more people of the city dwelling type get their hands on faster/bigger/more expecive boats without any knowledge of operating one. As of next year everyone that wishes to use one needs a license... about friggin time. As it is now anyone over the age of 16 can operate any boat regardless of HP up to 50ft in size. Above that and you need a license. This will now become mandatory for all.. just like driving a car.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I used to laugh at the new skippers with thier lorans, radars and sounders/plotters.
Nobody ever looked at any of that stuff till AFTER they ran aground.
Then they'd look at the screens, push some buttons and say.. "we're arground!!"
Like.. 'Surprise!'
LOL!
LOL yeah.. Morons. If they ever lost power to their equipment they would prolly holler "abandon ship" and get off in a hurry hoping thier wife has enough boyancy to keep them from drowning
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If the boat was floating at where that green crap is on the hull, I'm surprised it didn't capsize. That boat would have been up way too high in the water.
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Originally posted by NattyIced
If the boat was floating at where that green crap is on the hull, I'm surprised it didn't capsize. That boat would have been up way too high in the water.
just the bow.. its a big boat and most you dont see
(http://pics.goboating.com/pics/boattests/big/fairline58squadron_1.jpg)
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The algae line just doesn't look right for a boat sitting in a harbor - if it was there for an extended period of time.
My dad's boat is a 23ft Searay, it sits lower on the bow unless of course your gunning it through the water - but then algae won't have time to grow on it.
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Ever stand next to a big cruiser like this? The part out of the water is big.. as is the part below. Looks right to me..
Fairline is a traditional british firma that has made excellent motor yatch for a long time and i doubt its top heavy. I can agree that modern boats in general are abit "fat" for my taste. Not as sleek and elegant as in the past, but alot more room inside.
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I'll take your word for it. It's been a few years since I've been on the water. There were huge yachts in the harbor, but I spent most my time dodging them rather than looking at them.
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Dodging them is a good term and very fitting these days. As I said.. too many people having too big boats and no experience whatsoever. They may have read the PDF file that came with their GPS but thats about it.
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Nilsen - could this boat operator have been caught out by a low tide?
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what.. like that's an excuse?
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I think it's educational to note that US Navy aircraft carriers, probably (or at least arguably) the single most powerful and capable weapons system on the face of the Earth, still run the flight deck operations using a totally manual system. The reasoning is that the air boss will still be able to coordinate the deck dance even if power cuts out, or systems get scrambled.
Kind of suggests the smarts behind learning pencil and paper navigation BEFORE learning how to use your GPS.
Of course, I don't think this guy really understands GPS systems either, or he would have thought about underwater hazards to navigation.
How do stupid people get so much money?
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Originally posted by beet1e
Nilsen - could this boat operator have been caught out by a low tide?
Would not think so Beet.. Even tho we do have tide here, its nothing compared to what you have. They have not talked to the media about it, but the stuff they hit was visible at the time they hit it so i would guess auto-pilot was on or they were busy pushing buttons
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Originally posted by Goomba
...snip....
How do stupid people get so much money?
Probably is more arrogance than pure stupidity. People who are successful in one area can get the idea that they can do anything well, that they are "self made." Next step, tehy dont need to listen to anybody, and they can figure it out on their own.
Then comes running aground.
A commercial pilot friend of mine tells me that doctors (a notoriously arrogant bunch) have the highest accident rate as civil pilots, likely for the same reasons as noted....
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Nilson trying to get simpathy for sinking anouther boat ??
:D muhahahahaa
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Does this anonomous boat owner happen to be named "Nilsen?" :D
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Originally posted by Meatwad
Does this anonomous boat owner happen to be named "Nilsen?" :D
Nah, couldn't be. Nilsen wouldn't be caught using fancy technology out on the water. Like most "proper" sailors, he doesn't even believe in advances like catamaran hulls :D
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Originally posted by indy007
Nah, couldn't be. Nilsen wouldn't be caught using fancy technology out on the water. Like most "proper" sailors, he doesn't even believe in advances like catamaran hulls :D
Hmm never liked cats. I like my boats like trees.. they have to bend over and not break like a cat can if you push it too far. The leaning over has a charm too..
And no.. I dont like too much technology on boats except for depth sounders and wind instruments. Other junk just sucks power and takes your eyes of were they are supposed to be (the hottie sunbathing on deck) :)
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Beetle u cant just drive on ur TomTom its just an extra help urself always have to anticipate the situation.
At least study the route u programmed.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Hmm never liked cats. I like my boats like trees.. they have to bend over and not break like a cat can if you push it too far. The leaning over has a charm too..
And no.. I dont like too much technology on boats except for depth sounders and wind instruments. Other junk just sucks power and takes your eyes of were they are supposed to be (the hottie sunbathing on deck) :)
me neither. freakin catamarans are an abomination. they have an ugly jerky motion on a broad reach, lose weigh fast when tacking in a seaway, jibe better than tack in light air and pitch-pole too easy and run way too fast when it gets big out there and it's time to run before the wind.
I get caught with a knock-down or a broach, I think it's kinda important that the boat will stand back up.
They are however an excellent platform for a BBQ in the harbor.
:aok
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Dam Hang... That was some mighty fine sailor talk there.
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my question is, what the He** did he anchor to (or for) after he hit the rock???:huh :huh
ever occur to anyone that, being a new boat, that someone forgot to put the drain plug in at the outdrive???
let's see, no drain plug, launch boat, cruise around for a while (bilge pump getting a brisk work out), anchor and go home, bildge pump finally can't keep up and eventually down she goes!
makes sense to me.:D
28
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Dam Hang... That was some mighty fine sailor talk there.
HAARRRRRR!
Was ***** takin lubbers sailing. we'd be dashing along sheeted up tight, gettin time to tack.. i'd start barkin orders " 'vast starboard, there! Up tacks and clews; ready! 'BOUT!!
... buncha blank stares. 12 tons of yacht with a bone in her teeth continues to bear down on the breakwater..
*sheesh*
You.. free that sheet... (blank stare) ****!! THAT ROPE, RIGHT THERE!! YOU.. GRAB THAT ****IN ROPE OVER THERE, AND ****IN PULL LIKE YER LIFE DEPENDED ON IT BECAUSE NOW, DAMMIT; IT DOES!!!
Such a fun, relaxing and deeply enjoyable experience for all.
;)
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Originally posted by Simaril
A commercial pilot friend of mine tells me that doctors (a notoriously arrogant bunch) have the highest accident rate as civil pilots, likely for the same reasons as noted....
V-tail Bonanza often refered (more in the past, Cirrus seems to be a lot more in vouge now) to as
"the fork tailed doctor killer"
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Originally posted by Hangtime
HAARRRRRR!
Was ***** takin lubbers sailing. we'd be dashing along sheeted up tight, gettin time to tack.. i'd start barkin orders " 'vast starboard, there! Up tacks and clews; ready! 'BOUT!!
... buncha blank stares. 12 tons of yacht with a bone in her teeth continues to bear down on the breakwater..
*sheesh*
You.. free that sheet... (blank stare) ****!! THAT ROPE, RIGHT THERE!! YOU.. GRAB THAT ****IN ROPE OVER THERE, AND ****IN PULL LIKE YER LIFE DEPENDED ON IT BECAUSE NOW, DAMMIT; IT DOES!!!
Such a fun, relaxing and deeply enjoyable experience for all.
;)
Went out on San Francisco bay last year with my bud and his brother.. his brother's boat. It was a 40' beaut and he was the only one who had a freakin clue. We didn't sink her, but we sailed right through the middle of someone elses race... they weren't happy.
(turns out we had the ROW, but they still yelled.. it was a blast.)
laying that big ol boat on it's side and doing about 9 knots was a rush I didn't expect. I mean... 9 knots... that's nothing right? BS.
I got pics around here somewhere.
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ROFL! Hangtime :D
JB28 Im guessing he threw out the anchor to prevent drifting away if he hit the rocks with his propeller, or maybe the impact was so hard that it released itself.
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I've loved the 58 Fairlanes for a long time, particularly the Skyliners. I'd take the boat if it was free, then sell it and buy a couple of the nicer ones like this...
(http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1950-1959/1958-Ford-Fairlane-500-Skyliner-red-wht-tu-sy.jpg)
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On link below you can see pictures from when they raised it. On the last one you can see the growth line. Looks good to me.
The boat has just been sold by the insurance company to another guy for 1/4 the price. At that price I would have bought it and restored it!
http://www.fvn.no/bilder/bildeserier/article368285.ece
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Salvage is normally about $1,000 per foot. That would be about $58,000 to raise it and get it back. Not that difficult with the right equipment.
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Just call Mythbusters and tell them to bring ping-pong balls.
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Originally posted by weaselsan
Salvage is normally about $1,000 per foot. That would be about $58,000 to raise it and get it back. Not that difficult with the right equipment.
No idea what the insurance company payied for it, but I would guess it only cost 10% of that figure to get it on dry land. That sum is way far off
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Originally posted by Nilsen
No idea what the insurance company payied for it, but I would guess it only cost 10% of that figure to get it on dry land. That sum is way far off
In the U.S. any craft that is salvage (this is a prime example) is worth $1,000 per foot. It would be up to the insurance company or owner to pay the salvage or lose it. I doubt if any company here would do it for less. This thing prolly has $58,000 in electronics aboard. Not to mention a couple of HMU's (High Maintainence units)
(example of a high maintenence unit)
(http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/victoriasvisionslingerie_1895_7714468)
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Hang of all people is familiar with the support my previous employer made (Capn Voyager Mosaic, etc etc)
Our Tech Line...tech line now, for installing the software, was mobbed all the time with skippers who only knew how to write checks...asking how to sail.
We had a guy who felt actual charts were too expensive. So he bought aerial photos of areas he sailed. He thought dark spots were good. He ran aground in his $300,00 boat. No major damage...but a blow to his ego. Thankfully, this guy took a few Coast Guard sponsored outings, courses, etc and learned to sail.
But people sinking million dollar ships is like low time pilots wanting to buy warbirds and dying. Except in a boat, there isnt that messy fire that wipes out a few homes/schools, etc
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Yup.. that nav software was awsome. Came in handy more than once! :aok
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I still have all those Chart CDs you asked for, but you never gave me an address!
Company office was closed in 2004 (2 months after I bought a house...ouch)...not sure who bought the company now. Same folks who acquired capjack, etc
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How did he hit the rocks? Did he back into them? I don't see damage to the bow. Where did he hit the rocks? It's deep enough where he is down by the stern to draught him several times over (that boat has a very shallow draught).
The picture doesn't seem to fit the story.
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Originally posted by LePaul
I still have all those Chart CDs you asked for, but you never gave me an address!
Company office was closed in 2004 (2 months after I bought a house...ouch)...not sure who bought the company now. Same folks who acquired capjack, etc
Holy CRAP! I updated the software with the original vendor like you suggested and picked up a chart kit local (the company was here on the island), the went to The Vineyard for 3 weeks...
ARRGH!
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Well the charts I have (SC2 thru SC7) are all rasters from 2004.
I beleive everything went DNC/Vector with version 8.
Oh poo, MapTech bought out Capn....Westrec sold us out to our competitors. Must be cuz Boeing owns Nobletec
Check the site... http://www.thecapn.com/
The Capn and Maptech Join Forces!
We are very pleased to announce that Maptech and the Capn have joined forces. In April 2006, Maptech acquired the Capn software, and Dennis Mills (the "Capn" himself) has joined the Maptech Team as Product Manager. This brings together two of the oldest and finest names in marine navigation software.
Those of you who are recreational Capn users should expect a seamless continuation of the superior functionality and great value you have come to expect. But with the added benefit of the best customer support in the boating industry from Maptech!
Those of you who are commercial Capn users should expect to see new customized functionality for your specific navigation needs, as well as simpler and more flexible organization-wide licensing. All of this plus our commitment to providing you with the most up-to-date official government charts available.
We are committed to making your navigation experience productive, safe and enjoyable. Please call our customer support professionals at 888-839-5551 if you have any questions.
Thank you for your patronage
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Well damn again! They wanted a big chunka change to move up to 'current editions' or somesuch.. and the program version I'm running uses the 'old' raster charts. The boats nav station computer couldn't handle the new software anyway. :)
As I recall I was worried yer work email was eyeballed, so I didn't wanna mention it... damn; man, THANK you so much for getting those.. do I owe yah anything?
Yer alllllright... don't care what Nash sez about yah. ;)
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Hang, not sure I even still have em...held em for 3 years!
Should be a good move for the Capn software tho. Having a solid source for map data works superbly for nav software making. Since the MapTech format is in use all over the USA and the Canadien equivalent, it also seems to cover international areas nicely.
Drop me a private message, we can take this to priv email :)
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Originally posted by Brenjen
How did he hit the rocks? Did he back into them? I don't see damage to the bow. Where did he hit the rocks? It's deep enough where he is down by the stern to draught him several times over (that boat has a very shallow draught).
The picture doesn't seem to fit the story.
He was taking the boat from the Import firm (not factory as i have said earlyer) and was driving it up the coast to were he lives. For the most part he had stayed in open water, but decided to go closer to shore between all the islands and stuff when the weather turned abit worse.
He followed a local boat so he felt safe. The problem was that the local guy suddenly went to port. When our guy saw that he decided to go out into open water again (following his electronic charts and GPS). On his way out to open ocean he held a speed of 15-17 knots when he struck an underwater rock with one of his propellers. The propeller shaft got bent and he started to take in water. The alarms sounded and he stopped the other engine and drifted while checking the damage and pumping. While doing that the boat had turned with the stern against the waves and a few of them hadc ome over the stern and suddenly filled the boat with too much water and it started sinking. Im guessing he had opened the hatches on the stern deck to look at the engines and the waves filled the engine compartment quickly.
A combination of bad judgement and bad luck.
-edit- looking at the story again I see that the rescue service had actually reached the boat before it sank and had gotten pumps onboard. It was while pumping it out that a couple of waves got over the stern and quickly filled her. If the rescue service had gotten there 2 minutes earlyer the boat would have been safe.
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Ah-ha, I understand now, that makes more sense.