Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StarOfAfrica2 on May 25, 2006, 04:14:04 PM
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This is a crock. They'll be lucky if they dont find this guy strung up in his backyard someday soon.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12969163/?GT1=8199
SIDNEY, Neb. - A judge said a 5-foot-1 man convicted of sexually assaulting a child was too small to survive in prison, and gave him 10 years of probation instead.
His crimes deserved a long sentence, District Judge Kristine Cecava said, but she worried that Richard W. Thompson, 50, would be especially imperiled by prison dangers.
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Too pretty for prision. Too short for prision. Does he have anything else to complain about before he gets his mouth stuffed full of coc?
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"your honor, my anus is too small for prison" :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
"your honor, my anus is too small for prison" :rolleyes:
Not anymore :D
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What a shame.
He deserved to be gang banged.
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More nonsense from those libruls in Nebraska.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
"your honor, my anus is too small for prison" :rolleyes:
LOLOLOLOLOOLLLOLOLLOOLLOLLLOO LOOLLOLOOLOLOLLOOLLOOLOLLLO
that was funny, thanks.
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They should have had mercy on him, and taken him behind the courthouse for a quick and orderly hanging.
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By the time those cons got through with him, he'd have been taller.
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Get behind on your child support, go to jail. Molest children, register on a database, walk around free.
I would rather have a car theif on the streets than a child molester
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Yeah at least if the car theif steals your car, insurance pays for it and no big loss. Just headache.
Child molesters steal something you cant put back or fix.
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No soap on a rope for him, he don't need it.
Handles on the back of his head & lots of chapstick is what he needs, & deserves.
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Maybe use this 18th century tool?
http://www.ingenious.org.uk/media/4.0_SAC/webimages/1028/7/10287452_3.jpg
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Maybe it's my old school Sicilian blood but I see a positive in this outlandish, monumentally stoopid judgement.
Since he's not in the slam, the child's family can find him, and "reach out and touch him", as it were.
In my neighborhood, that means he'd probably suffer a tragic "fall", or "trip" in front of a bus.
Terrible shame. Really.
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Originally posted by Goomba
Maybe it's my old school Sicilian blood but I see a positive in this outlandish, monumentally stoopid judgement.
Since he's not in the slam, the child's family can find him, and "reach out and touch him", as it were.
In my neighborhood, that means he'd probably suffer a tragic "fall", or "trip" in front of a bus.
Terrible shame. Really.
There would be no child molestation problem if the first thing done to the accused was to cut the guys donut and balls off with a dull knife.
If he's aquitted, they can let him have 'em back in a jar.
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i accuse everyone with a hot wife of child molestation (note to self: start asking the dry cleaner for heavy starching of the wizard hat)
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There was no height requirement for child molestation, there should be no height limitation for jail. You do the crime, you do the time. I imagine he didn't quibble about how tall the 12 year old he was molesting was.
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Originally posted by Goomba
Maybe it's my old school Sicilian blood but I see a positive in this outlandish, monumentally stoopid judgement.
Since he's not in the slam, the child's family can find him, and "reach out and touch him", as it were.
In my neighborhood, that means he'd probably suffer a tragic "fall", or "trip" in front of a bus.
Terrible shame. Really.
Born Radburn NJ here. Same methods i'd use - cept it would probally be the Russian's getting creative on him in that neighborhood with train tracks.
Wolf
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Personally, I think anyone who rapes kids deserves far worse than hanging. Take him out in the woods somewhere far from help. Strip him naked and set his family jewels out on a tree stump. Nail them to the tree stump, and leave him there with his hands tied behind his back. He can either starve to death, or he can rip himself loose and try to walk back to civilization.
Either way, he'll never rape anyone again, ever.
There are many criminals I can see mitigating circumstances in their behavior. They still need to recieve consequences for their actions, but I can at least understand what pushed them to it, and find it in myself to feel some leniency.
I cannot understand, cannot forgive, and cannot find it in my heart to feel sorry for anyone who rapes a child. Just thinking about it makes me want to take a baseball bat and beat them to a bloody pulp. Anyone with that kind of twisted mental disease needs to be exterminated. At the very least we need to make sure they cannot EVER commit their crimes again. It has been proven time and time again that this particular perversion of humanity cannot ever be cured. The only thing that has successfully controlled it and allowed these men to carry on a somewhat normal life is chemical castration. Even that is not 100% effective, because it relies on them taking their medication. I firmly believe that once a man (or woman) has served their sentence imposed by our justice system that they should be allowed to return to the world and live a normal life. These people cannot. Giving them jail time for this will not cure them, will not in any way affect their urge to do it again. It's a waste of taxpayer money and a waste of time.
Perhaps this judge knew what she was doing after all.
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Jesus, what sick bastard would be nailing the guy's nuts to a tree stump, and what are your plans for that sick bastard after he's done with that task. I'm not sure I'd want to live next to him any more than the child molester.
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My plans for which sick bastard? For the one that punishes a child rapist? Buy him a beer.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
There would be no child molestation problem if the first thing done to the accused was to cut the guys donut and balls off with a dull knife.
If he's aquitted, they can let him have 'em back in a jar.
Hmmm...........
so no one has EVER accused you of anything you KNOW you didn't do? Not defending anyone here just looking at a statement and having many questions come to mind.
With the above approach many males would be castrated NOT because they did anything but because their soon to be ex-wives made an accusation against em in court during the divorce.
I am of the opinion the above statement is ONE of the reasons "innocent until proven guilty" is in our legal system.
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Hey.. be a lot fewer divorces, and damn few child molesters.
kinda a 'win-win' deal for the social fabric of our society, dontcha think?
;)
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Espically imperiled? I have a better idea, how about just hung by the neck until dead in the town square. Let the whole world know what will happen to child molesters.
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which neck?
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Damn. We have something similar going on up here right now.
Guy gets caught and convicted with a whole bunch of child porn and gets house arrest for a year and then 2 years of probation.
Why are we protecting the rights of these monsters? Why do we allow them to have rights?
What happened to the rights of the kids?
If I go out and exact revenge, I would be deemed a criminal. (most likely a murderer).
There is something wrong when our laws put the criminal bastage above our daughters, sons, wives and husbands.
Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Won't change the life of the victim, but will sure as hell change the life of the scumballs.
"March the guilty bastard in, and give him to the father!"
That's the sentence that I want to hear.
:(
RTR
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There was a guy like that (had been in jail, once he was out he started again) stalking the local school and candyshop where I live.
It's a small town, he got spotted and hunted away. Got scared as hell and never came back.
He was being searched by a pair of farmers, and I belive they had the castration equipment in the trunk :D
Farmers.....tsk tsk
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They should have had mercy on him, and taken him behind the courthouse for a quick and orderly hanging.
I agree 100%.
And in my opinion the same should go for clear cut murder and rape cases. We waste so much money every year housing criminals it's sad.
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^^^eeekkkk ... (about all the post before mine ....)
And lot of you find the beheading on Al-jezera intolerable ?
Are the muslim still sick wacko ?
or perhaps are you all muslim ...
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Hey.. be a lot fewer divorces, and damn few child molesters.
kinda a 'win-win' deal for the social fabric of our society, dontcha think?
;)
Hmmm................
It SEEMS that as it is now in many cases the females have the advantage in the court room. Not all mind you! Depends allot on the judge and the lawyers involved. Some times the females get popped rather then the males.
Anyways.... According to the reports it's the wives that most often file for divorce. Reports also claims many of the males didn't even have a clue such was about to happen. Just find themselves served with divorce papers and restraining orders at the same time. with NO chance to defend themselves in court against the restraining order whatsoever.
So I'm inclined to think it would have little impact on reducing divorce. But it might reduce the number of birth's considerably as there could be allot of males, possibly totally innocent, losing the ability to procreate.
So nope don't think so.
Again not defending anyone here.
IMHO don't care if the molester is too short. The molester should at the very least go to prison!
But not surprised at all at the verdict. Thinkin someone should be checkin up on that judge and her...... habits.
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Since he's too short for prison, skip prison and go straight to the gallows and stretch his neck a couple of inches. THEN maybe he'll be tall enough for prison.:furious
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child molesters are sick humans... their sickness causes them to do heinous crimes and... is incurable.... for either of thos two reasons, and, because I am not into toruring sick animals without a good reason..... they need to be given a leathal injection as soon as humanly possible after their conviction....
There is no height requirement for lethal injection. It is the humane thing to do for all concerned.
lazs
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hang... there is nothing you can do to a child molester short of killing him that will stop him from molesting children. They don't need natural equipment....I would prefer not to have to give you the details... you can look it up tho.
lazs
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I'll take yer word for it, laz
Hang 'em.
Straffo.. yes; we are very barbaric. There are people in this world that are abominations and should be euthanised. Child Molestors top the list.
And, yes; we don't just envy the Arabs their oil.. we also envy their quaint justice system.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
My plans for which sick bastard? For the one that punishes a child rapist? Buy him a beer.
Ice cold Miller Lite in a frosted Glass!
:aok
Mac
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Originally posted by straffo
^^^eeekkkk ... (about all the post before mine ....)
And lot of you find the beheading on Al-jezera intolerable ?
Are the muslim still sick wacko ?
or perhaps are you all muslim ...
Straffo are you confused between Innocent women and men verses child molesters? Do you have children? Would you bring Religion into this if some Perv screwed yer 8 year old Daughter for fun? Would you allow the Judicial system work it's ways and allow him to plea to a lesser crime and walk free?
Most MEN wouldn't let it get to Court.
Mac
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It's not the judge's fault, he was just following the law. On the front door of the Nebraska State Prison, there is a sign, "You must be this tall to serve time"
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Straffo,
Just a point of clarification on one minor detail. The "people" doing the beheadings killed folks who were guilty of no crimes and had not been convicted after an open trial for an offense against them other than trying to make things better in that particular country.
The child molester on the other hand has a clear and extremely vulnerable victim and an open trial with a jury of his "peers".
Just thought you'd like to see a little bit of a difference in the 2 situations.
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Thank you Mav!
BTW how's things?
May you have the wind behind ya and dry roads ahead!
:aok
Mac
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
It's not the judge's fault, he was just following the law. On the front door of the Nebraska State Prison, there is a sign, "You must be this tall to serve time"
Hmm...
from the judges name I was under the impression the judge was a female?
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The judge was introduced to me as Christopher about 10 years ago, before his (her) gender reassignment. Old habits.
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There is no true justice anymore. The criminals have more rights than the victims.
my nephew just went to prison, (he's like 5'3") and a really good kid basically. He never hurt anyone, or was mean to small animals, kept to himself etc. He is only 19; he even learned sign language to talk with a deaf kid he became friends with; but he got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time & with a prosecuting attorney who was up for re-election.
He was sentenced to 15 years in prison for a first offense. He was not a pure as the driven snow kid, he had a quarter gram of crystal meth on him when he was arrested so don't think I'm defending that. He went to buy his dope from some of his "friends" & they turned states evidence on him & he got charged with their lab & their hunting rifle. He did not live there, he was a customer.
They got probation (their second offense) & he's in prison & has to serve six years before he is even eligable for parole.
The prosecutor is dead now, that's some justice, but it doesn't help my nephew. When (if) he gets out, he had better never touch dope again, which I don't think he will, he is scared & miserable. He told me in a letter not long ago how horrible & sick the people are in his barracks, he's just lucky one of my partners is in there with him to watch out for him.
Nope justice is not just.
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Originally posted by straffo
^^^eeekkkk ... (about all the post before mine ....)
And lot of you find the beheading on Al-jezera intolerable ?
Are the muslim still sick wacko ?
or perhaps are you all muslim ...
You'd be against a quick and orderly hanging for a convicted child molester? What's your idea of a good punishment?
Remember, eating babies for a meal isn't considered molestation, so you're not being targeted here, Frenchie. :p
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Originally posted by Brenjen
There is no true justice anymore. The criminals have more rights than the victims.
my nephew just went to prison, (he's like 5'3") and a really good kid basically. He never hurt anyone, or was mean to small animals, kept to himself etc. He is only 19; he even learned sign language to talk with a deaf kid he became friends with; but he got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time & with a prosecuting attorney who was up for re-election.
He was sentenced to 15 years in prison for a first offense. He was not a pure as the driven snow kid, he had a quarter gram of crystal meth on him when he was arrested so don't think I'm defending that. He went to buy his dope from some of his "friends" & they turned states evidence on him & he got charged with their lab & their hunting rifle. He did not live there, he was a customer.
They got probation (their second offense) & he's in prison & has to serve six years before he is even eligable for parole.
The prosecutor is dead now, that's some justice, but it doesn't help my nephew. When (if) he gets out, he had better never touch dope again, which I don't think he will, he is scared & miserable. He told me in a letter not long ago how horrible & sick the people are in his barracks, he's just lucky one of my partners is in there with him to watch out for him.
Nope justice is not just.
The bastard. He should have been tortured, castrated, hung, shot and poisoned to death. Right Hang? Lazs? Anyone?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Straffo,
Just a point of clarification on one minor detail. The "people" doing the beheadings killed folks who were guilty of no crimes and had not been convicted after an open trial for an offense against them other than trying to make things better in that particular country.
The child molester on the other hand has a clear and extremely vulnerable victim and an open trial with a jury of his "peers".
Just thought you'd like to see a little bit of a difference in the 2 situations.
I was comparing the attitude not the justification of the barbarie (spelling ?)
Whatever the reason if you act or pretend to act like a barbare , you are a barbare
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straffo.... do you believe that it is more humane to imprison someone for life and isolate him from all human contact so that he won't hurt others or be hurt by others?
Is it not more humane to put a rabid dog out of it's missery? The child molester is suffering and incurable. But the topper is... so long as he is alive he is danger to everyone around him... if he get's loose he will harm the most innocent among us and create more monsters like himself.
How is that the same as snatching innocent people at random and terrorizing them for weeks before painfuly beheading them in public?
One act is humane while the other is cruel and barborous. the simple fact that death is the end result in both cases does not make them the same.
lazs
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Child molesters like all sexual deviants are not incurable. Even so, most condemned child molesters are not even sexual deviants, only social deviants. The problem is a justice system unable to sentence people to medical treatment rather than incarceration or death. And thanks to close-minded people like Lazs here who only favor one punishment for most crimes, I don’t see the justice system being improved in the foreseeable future.
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Well Laz , uvwpvW answered for me :)
Punishment + treatment is the only way or we would better sentence to death anyone a bit deviant.
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Originally posted by lazs2
child molesters are sick humans... their sickness causes them to do heinous crimes and... is incurable....
lazs
There is a cure, and you own several doses
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Geritol?
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Sex offender recidivism (http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/C24.htm)
In addition, the long-term follow-up study (15-30 years)of child molesters showed that the average recidivism rate for this group of offenders is actually lower than the average recidivism rate for non-sexual offenders (61% versus 83.2% respectively for any new conviction).
Likelihood of Recidivism
The long term follow-up study referred to above included a control group of non-sexual criminals. The highest rate of recidivism (77%) was for those with previous sexual offences, who selected boy victims outside the family and who were never married.
In general, rapists reoffend more often than child molesters.
Among child molesters, those with male victims have been found to have the highest recidivism rates, followed by those with unrelated female victims.
Incest offenders show the lowest recidivism rates of all sexual offenders.
It's only 60% recidivism.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
There is a cure, and you own several doses
I think he's talking about a good sized dose of lead introduced into the bloodstream.
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Wait, what? Are you sure?!
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The problem is, 60% of them GETTING CAUGHT abusing CHILDREN is 60% TOO MANY.
No offense to you Toad, I know what you mean.
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I personally think sex offenders/child molesters should be carefully evaluated, treated by professionals and released back into society when deemed "ready".
I think they should be given a new, fresh start and a chance to succeed. I think they should be given a government-paid house or an apartment right next to someone that thinks sex offenders/child molesters are "curable" with a low risk of recidivism.
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recidivism is not proof or lack of proof of cure. Being caught is proof of recidivism tho. 60% is about the rate that most criminals are caught. I would also say that violent rapists should be executed also. I have no problem with that.
Child molesters are not curable... very few sexual deviations are.
Some would tell us that homosexuality is curable... I would dissagree but... homosexuality bettween consenting adults is quite another thing.
to see child molesters and violent rapists as "slightly deviant" and "curable" is dangerously ignorant. To see any cure other than execution being workable is dangerously ignorant.... To sentance them to prison for the rest of their life is at once cruel and.... wishful, ignorant thinking(thinking life in prison means never being a danger to man again)
I am not into torturing sick animals... leathal injection is the humane way to deal with these incurable and extremely dangerous sexual predators.
better luck in the next life.
lazs
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I would go further toad. I would say that if a shrink deems a dangerous deviate cured and released....
That if that deviate goes back to his old ways... the shrink should pay the penalty. At the very least he should be sued (not his insurance) and lose his licence and be imprisoned.
lazs
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Maybe we could make the shrink take him/her on as nanny to the shrink's children. ;)
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I know one thing, if I catch someone raping my wife or kids it is going to be an immediate sentence of death, no I'm sick or I need help.
So how would it be any different if they are arrested?
You look into the face of a 5 year old who is laying on her back with a grown man raping her & tell me death isn't appropriate.
Every picture of every child I see haunts me, when I see the smiles & the happiness that was ripped away from them,I can envision their innocent trust being shredded - Samantha Runion,carlie brucia,Consuelo Medina (21 months old & sodomized to death),Jessica Lunsford (A 9-year-old girl raped, bound and buried alive, kneeling and clutching a purple stuffed dolphin)
Why give a sub-human animal the right to life? I would lock them away under the death penalty & bring them out into a public viewing area everyday & place their head on a chopping block.
I would then proceed to go through all the motions of their execution, then swing the axe into the wood & tell them...maybe tomorrow. I would continue to do this until it either no longer phased them or they lost their mind at that point I would have them tortured to death in public medieval style.
No there is no punishment too "cruel & unusual" for such "cruel & unusual" animals.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
Consuelo Medina (21 months old & sodomized to death),Jessica Lunsford (A 9-year-old girl raped, bound and buried alive, kneeling and clutching a purple stuffed dolphin)
Those are vicious murders. A different thing altogether.
What about Debra Lafave, the 23 year old blonde babe teacher who had sex with a 14 year old boy student. Should she be put to death? He is a child, but I don’t think he considers himself a victim if you know what I mean. The law must be equal for all.
Only the mildest of sex offenders can be treated with psychology alone. Most need hormone medication or even chemical neutering. If only the justice system were allowed to use those options instead of just jail time.
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Originally posted by uvwpvW
Those are vicious murders. A different thing altogether.
What about Debra Lafave, the 23 year old blonde babe teacher who had sex with a 14 year old boy student. Should she be put to death? He is a child, but I don’t think he considers himself a victim if you know what I mean. The law must be equal for all.
Only the mildest of sex offenders can be treated with psychology alone. Most need hormone medication or even chemical neutering. If only the justice system were allowed to use those options instead of just jail time.
Actually the law should NOT be equal for all. There is quite a bit of difference in the example you mentioned and a child rapist who by force assaults the victim against their will. That is the reason for mitigating circumstances and graduations in penalties for unequal violations of law.
Now, for the sake of discussion, how is chemical neutering going to be classed as not cruel and unusual?
Secondly since many sexual predators are not goaded by simple sexual release but instead by an exercise of power over the victim, how is YOUR solution going to alleiviate them as recidivists?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Actually the law should NOT be equal for all. There is quite a bit of difference in the example you mentioned and a child rapist who by force assaults the victim against their will. That is the reason for mitigating circumstances and graduations in penalties for unequal violations of law.
Please explain to me the various graduations of the death penalty. Slightly dead? Medium rare? I don’t think the likes of Hangtime and Lazs are capable of recognizing mitigating circumstances or graduations in penalties.
Originally posted by Maverick
Now, for the sake of discussion, how is chemical neutering going to be classed as not cruel and unusual?
Because it is not cruel, nor that unusual (Europeans do it). Chemical neutering isn’t even permanent, but requires regular treatments (I believe on a yearly basis).
Originally posted by Maverick
Secondly since many sexual predators are not goaded by simple sexual release but instead by an exercise of power over the victim, how is YOUR solution going to alleiviate them as recidivists?
These people are criminally insane and not safe for release back in society. They should be sentenced to psychiatric incarceration where they can be studied. Insane people are a far too valuable scientific commodity to be squandered by the executioner. Some day their study may help other people get well, or even prevent such insanities.
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"These people are criminally insane and not safe for release back in society"
please explain to me how something that cannot experience physical sexual gratification with anyone other than a prebubecent child is not insane? while those who also require someone elses pain is?
cant see how one is lesser...
(edits to try and clarify the point...)
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People who are sexually attracted to prepubescent children are in most cases sick, not insane. It is a hormonal disorder that affects the sex drive. Someone who gets sexual pleasure from torturing others are criminally insane. A psychotic insanity usually induced by environmental factors in the offenders past. The difference is medical vs. psychological. One is treatable with medication, the other usually is not.
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Some day their study may help other people get well, or even prevent such insanities.
Yup, but until then... How many people will be mutilated, murdered, raped, have there, and there families lives ripped to shreds.
They should be sentenced to psychiatric incarceration where they can be studied. Insane people are a far too valuable scientific commodity to be squandered by the executioner.
So basically the taxes that come out of my check should pay for some madball to be housed, fed ect. And for the salary of the scientist that is trying to figure out what makes him/her tick? Not to mention all the medical equipment involved in such a study.
Let me tell you a story. I was living with a chick for about 3 years. Really pretty, smart, ect. Everything was fine, but over time she would periodically flip out, tell me she was going to off herself, how she hated men, the world. She would wake up in the middle of the night screaming, crying, yelling "he's coming to get me", all kinds of wacky crap.
Eventually i had a talk with her, found out she was molested by her step father when she was 5, and raped by some low-life mongrel when she was 19. I tried to get her psychological help, but she was too far gone so i bugged out of the relationship.
I still say they deserve the rope, so they can't make another victim. Lethal injection is too nice. Yeah i guess i'm a barbarian, but i'm not a rapist, murderer, or child molester.
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Originally posted by Speed55
Yup, but until then... How many people will be mutilated, murdered, raped, have there, and there families lives ripped to shreds.
None since they are incarcerated. Perhaps you should learn to read before you post.
Originally posted by Speed55
So basically the taxes that come out of my check should pay for some madball to be housed, fed ect. And for the salary of the scientist that is trying to figure out what makes him/her tick? Not to mention all the medical equipment involved in such a study.
No, I’m quite sure the medical industry or universities are quite happy to do so at their own expense. Like I said these people (test subjects) are valuable commodities.
Originally posted by Speed55
Let me tell you a story. I was living with a chick for about 3 years. Really pretty, smart, ect. Everything was fine, but over time she would periodically flip out, tell me she was going to off herself, how she hated men, the world. She would wake up in the middle of the night screaming, crying, yelling "he's coming to get me", all kinds of wacky crap.
Eventually i had a talk with her, found out she was molested by her step father when she was 5, and raped by some low-life mongrel when she was 19. I tried to get her psychological help, but she was too far gone so i bugged out of the relationship.
I still say they deserve the rope, so they can't make another victim. Lethal injection is too nice. Yeah i guess i'm a barbarian, but i'm not a rapist, murderer, or child molester.
I feel sorry for her. Why do you not want the scientific community to possibly prevent this from happening to other in the future? Revenge is a powerful emotion, but that’s why we have an impartial justice system. Dead or incarcerated in a psychiatric ward, either way he’s not going to hurt anyone again … and he just might help someone instead.
Btw. I don’t think you’re a barbarian, but I do think you a coward for leaving her in her hour of need. That she didn’t get help after her abuse I find barbaric.
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Shouldn't the very limited space in our already overcrowded mental health system be reserved for curable people who have NOT murdered or raped people? I say the answer is yes.
Maybe we could have an opt-in tax where citizens such as yourself could pitch in to house these people for the valuable research you're proposing.
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I tried to get her psychological help, but she was too far gone so i bugged out of the relationship.
I forgot to mention that she actually tried to stab me with a piece of a broken mirror while i was eating dinner. This is after trying to help her many times.. Holding her down on various occasions so she wouldn't hurt herself or someone else. She was on meds at the time, that a shrink said would stop her from acting violently. I got fed up with it all, i'm not rich, and i was supporting myself and someone that turned into a basket case. I couldn't do it anymore. She was an off an on stripper, so when i left she went back to that. There's alot to the the story. My point being, if she was never abused, she in all likely hood, would have been fine. Therefore, the people that do things like this, and ruin peoples lives should be put down, like rabid animals. So i am a coward in your eyes, and a barbarian in someone elses. Who cares.
Yup, but until then... How many people will be mutilated, murdered, raped, have there, and there families lives ripped to shreds.
I can read just fine, and again, sorry, i didn't explain myself properly.
Incarcerated or not, how is that going to stop the people that are on the streets from committing these crimes?
Supposing all this testing did actually find a cure, which in itself is highly unlikely. They would have to give every american citizen some kind of psychiological examination and i guess there would be a pass=normal, fail=loon outcome? In which case all those that are determined loons were some how supplied with anti-maniac pills by our govt. And then if they forget to take there meds one day, and they "accidently" murder a little girl or something we just say, oh well, it wasn't his fault. Lets just have a nurse live with him and make sure he takes his meds every 8 hours like he's supposed to. Or maybe put him in another little box with people probing him to figure out why he forgot to take them.
In all honesty i think you have good points. But i don't think the time money effort are worth it, and there are so many loopholes. I think science is great, and generally helps the world in many ways, but what your talking about is science fiction.
If you do the crime, you do the time. In this case time = death.
I'm done with this topic.
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Uv and whatever letters you choose to use for a name,
First off let me address the mistaken impression you obviously have regarding my post about not equal penalties. In no place in that post did I mention the death penalty. Nor was I referring to it. In this case I was referring to your statement of equal penalty under the law. Do not twist my words or attempt to put words in my mouth. If you have a question about what I post feel free to ask for a clarification but don’t figure to twist it to something I didn’t say.
The law allows for differing penalties for differing offenses. You don't seem to get that. Your solution is to place the offender in a treatment facility. That is fine for some that may, and I deliberately use the term "may", be reachable by treatment. Not all of the offenders will be treatable, either by psychiatry, hospitalization or chemical means. Those need to be incarcerated and separated from society so they cannot prey on the innocent again.
Second issue, the cruel and unusual. I don’t recall the courts having agreed with your premise that chemical or physical castration is not cruel and unusual. Until they do I cannot accept it as a wide spread and more importantly, a permanent solution. There are means available to counter the castration issue. Can you say Viagra? It’s even available through the internet.
BTW just because something is done in Europe does not mean it is acceptable here.
I loved this part of your post.
Quote
These people are criminally insane and not safe for release back in society. They should be sentenced to psychiatric incarceration where they can be studied. Insane people are a far too valuable scientific commodity to be squandered by the executioner. Some day their study may help other people get well, or even prevent such inanities. endquote
There has already been a bit of study. Quite a bit in fact and yet there is no “cure”. Now how long are you going to “study” them and how will you “study” them? I believe there is precedent for “study”. Would you be referring to them as “untermenchen” as well?
If there were a “cure” I’d be happy to see it used. Would it be used before or after the offense? Voluntary or not?
Now enough about the person committing the assault. What do you propose for the victims?
Lastly if these folks are so important to you I am sure you'd be willing to take responsibility for them, maybe even house them with your family.
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I hate short people.
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Originally posted by uvwpvW
Those are vicious murders. A different thing altogether.
What about Debra Lafave, the 23 year old blonde babe teacher who had sex with a 14 year old boy student. Should she be put to death? He is a child, but I don’t think he considers himself a victim if you know what I mean. The law must be equal for all.
Only the mildest of sex offenders can be treated with psychology alone. Most need hormone medication or even chemical neutering. If only the justice system were allowed to use those options instead of just jail time.
No, not different at all from my perspective. And who says the law must be equal? It is a case by case standard that is used in the United States & has been for as long as I can remember; laws are to be just not equal, that's why it's called justice.
Teenage boys or girls having consensual sex is no where close to being the same thing as baby raping, I can't believe you would even try to put them in the same category. A little common sense would go a long way.
Those children lucky enough to survive child rapists, were almost all raped by a pervert who went on to offend again & with increasing violence until they killed someone. Serial rapists & child molestors are not just ill & needing treatment, they are vicious criminals who need society to dish out a helping of cold merciless punishment.
Once they have killed, then the courts decide to take them out of this world (sometimes, sometimes they get off)....I say nip it in the bud, kill them when they start down that road, not when they reach the end. Again, a little common sense, but that's not so common anymore, is it?
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Originally posted by Speed55
I forgot to mention that she actually tried to stab me with a piece of a broken mirror while i was eating dinner. This is after trying to help her many times.. Holding her down on various occasions so she wouldn't hurt herself or someone else. She was on meds at the time, that a shrink said would stop her from acting violently. I got fed up with it all, i'm not rich, and i was supporting myself and someone that turned into a basket case. I couldn't do it anymore. She was an off an on stripper, so when i left she went back to that. There's alot to the the story. My point being, if she was never abused, she in all likely hood, would have been fine. Therefore, the people that do things like this, and ruin peoples lives should be put down, like rabid animals. So i am a coward in your eyes, and a barbarian in someone elses. Who cares.
That makes it more understandable. I apologize and retract my previous statement.
Originally posted by Speed55
I can read just fine, and again, sorry, i didn't explain myself properly.
Incarcerated or not, how is that going to stop the people that are on the streets from committing these crimes?
Supposing all this testing did actually find a cure, which in itself is highly unlikely. They would have to give every american citizen some kind of psychiological examination and i guess there would be a pass=normal, fail=loon outcome? In which case all those that are determined loons were some how supplied with anti-maniac pills by our govt. And then if they forget to take there meds one day, and they "accidently" murder a little girl or something we just say, oh well, it wasn't his fault. Lets just have a nurse live with him and make sure he takes his meds every 8 hours like he's supposed to. Or maybe put him in another little box with people probing him to figure out why he forgot to take them.
That ultimately becomes a question of freedom vs. surveillance. Do you want to wait until someone commits a sex crime? Or do you prefer mandatory genetic and psychological screening (in schools for instance) to catch possible future offenders and “deal with” them accordingly (I don’t know what that would be exactly seeing how they haven’t yet committed any crimes).
Big issue and one that becomes more and more important as our societies evolve technologically.
Originally posted by Speed55
In all honesty i think you have good points. But i don't think the time money effort are worth it, and there are so many loopholes. I think science is great, and generally helps the world in many ways, but what your talking about is science fiction
I’m sorry you feel that way, but you’re entitled to your opinion. The alternative punishments that I have advocated in this thread are not science-fiction, but science-fact and in use in other countries today. With very successful results I might add (not one repeat offender so far (last I heard)). Off course their justice systems work differently and have the necessary authority to pioneer such alternative punishments. Unlike US Courts which seem more rigid and restrictive.
One thing we can agree on: Releasing untreated sex predators back on the streets after short jail sentences is madness. I prefer your solution over that any day.
Originally posted by Maverick
Uv and whatever letters you choose to use for a name,
Its uvwpvW, and it becomes more understandable if you read it upside-down.
Originally posted by Maverick
First off let me address the mistaken impression you obviously have regarding my post about not equal penalties. In no place in that post did I mention the death penalty. Nor was I referring to it. In this case I was referring to your statement of equal penalty under the law. Do not twist my words or attempt to put words in my mouth. If you have a question about what I post feel free to ask for a clarification but don’t figure to twist it to something I didn’t say.
I believe there has been a misunderstanding. You responded to a post of mine where I was referring to the indiscriminate use of the death penalty advocated by other people in this thread.
To clarify: No I don’t believe in “absolute justice”, so I think we are in agreement there.
Originally posted by Maverick
Not all of the offenders will be treatable, either by psychiatry, hospitalization or chemical means. Those need to be incarcerated and separated from society so they cannot prey on the innocent again.
We are inn full agreement there. However I suggest they be incarcerated in a place where they can be studied rather than just prison. It won’t cost more, and if the scientists don’t want them, just stick them back in jail.
Originally posted by Maverick
Second issue, the cruel and unusual. I don’t recall the courts having agreed with your premise that chemical or physical castration is not cruel and unusual. Until they do I cannot accept it as a wide spread and more importantly, a permanent solution. There are means available to counter the castration issue. Can you say Viagra? It’s even available through the internet.
Viagra is ineffectual against chemical castration, but even if a “counter agent” exists the point is moot. If the offender is not willing to use the medication of his own volition, he is obviously not safe for society and is incarcerated as previously mentioned.
Originally posted by Maverick
I loved this part of your post.
Quote
These people are criminally insane and not safe for release back in society. They should be sentenced to psychiatric incarceration where they can be studied. Insane people are a far too valuable scientific commodity to be squandered by the executioner. Some day their study may help other people get well, or even prevent such inanities. endquote
There has already been a bit of study. Quite a bit in fact and yet there is no “cure”. Now how long are you going to “study” them and how will you “study” them? I believe there is precedent for “study”. Would you be referring to them as “untermenchen” as well?
There is no “cure” for the condition, but there is a remedy for the symptoms (perverted sex drive). As with all science I believe everything is worth studying until all is known. The human psyche is especially important for fighting violent crime.
As for your “untermenschen” comment: If I were to call them that, it would be a move up for them. Most people in this thread seem to regard them as “rabid animals” and whatnot. To answer you question: No I will not be reffering to them as “untermenschen” as well. I think they are tortured individuals that need help. Preferably before they commit these horrible crimes.
Originally posted by Maverick
If there were a “cure” I’d be happy to see it used. Would it be used before or after the offense? Voluntary or not?
That is ultimately a question of freedom. A very difficult question.
Originally posted by Maverick
Now enough about the person committing the assault. What do you propose for the victims?
That is also a question of freedom. I would prefer free mandatory medical and phycriatric help and follow ups later in life. However that is also a question of social politics, capitalism vs. socialism. Where do we find the equilibrium that gives us the security we need, yet doesn’t take away our freedom?
Originally posted by Maverick
Lastly if these folks are so important to you I am sure you'd be willing to take responsibility for them, maybe even house them with your family.
On this issue I have to go for the socialist solution (something I not often do). If you’re more of a Libertarian then I guess your options are limited to the method of execution. I was raised a Christian and I believe all people are important, even if they are defective and cannot be easily repaired. I believe the death penalty should be reserved for those that willfully commit horrible crimes for gain or vanity. Those that are driven to it by illness or insanity deserve our pity, not our wrath.
Your opinions may differ, but I suggest we leave it at that?
Brenjen, I’m not going to respond to that. You’ve made your opinion clear, so have I.
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That ultimately becomes a question of freedom vs. surveillance. Do you want to wait until someone commits a sex crime? Or do you prefer mandatory genetic and psychological screening (in schools for instance) to catch possible future offenders and “deal with” them accordingly (I don’t know what that would be exactly seeing how they haven’t yet committed any crimes).
Big issue and one that becomes more and more important as our societies evolve technologically.
I wanted to respond to a couple of things but this one just hit the top of the chart.
You are now talking about taking some kind of intrusive action prior to an offense having been committed. It also presupposes that there is some way of determining that the individual in question WILL commit some kind of offense before they are even an adult.
This flies in the face of the constitution. No action can be made to restrain or enforce a law on a person until an offense is committed. This part of law enforcement is totally reactive based on the premis that an individual is innocent until proven guilty. You, with this statement, are already presupposing guilt before an act has occured. This goes beyond even Orwel's 1984 issues of surveilance. How in the heck are you going to do that?!?!?! What basis of law are you going to use to preempt an act? What method are you going to use to tell what is going on in a person's head before anything is acted on?
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Originally posted by Maverick
You, with this statement, are already presupposing guilt before an act has occured
No I did not do anything of the kind. I presented a moral problem that we will face in the near future, if not already. I believe no one is guilty of a crime until proven so … however should we (if and when the technology is made available) offer people that are found to be medically or psychologically predisposed for violent crimes help to avert possible criminal behavior? Should we force treatment upon those who might become a threat to society even if they do not wish it? These are difficult questions that will be fiercely debated, and I for one do not yet know where I stand on this issue.
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Originally posted by uvwpvW
No I did not do anything of the kind. I presented a moral problem that we will face in the near future, if not already. I believe no one is guilty of a crime until proven so … however should we (if and when the technology is made available) offer people that are found to be medically or psychologically predisposed for violent crimes help to avert possible criminal behavior? Should we force treatment upon those who might become a threat to society even if they do not wish it? These are difficult questions that will be fiercely debated, and I for one do not yet know where I stand on this issue.
Well, I have heard similar discussion all my life, or for a good part of it. "Genetic pre-disposition to criminal behaviour" I think that's what some chick called it once....I just have to shake my head. How about getting involved in the actual crimes that are happening & coming up with a viable solution to keep innocent people from getting hurt today instead of worrying over what might never happen tomorrow?
I understand that, from the limited information I can glean from your posts & avatar, name etc. you must work in the psychological field in one form or another or are interested in the mental process. Frankly, your position seems to be mostly a theory of thought & suppositions & what ifs. Which is a good thing for someone who is trying to figure out the inner workings of the abnormal psyche & I am all for science doing just that.
But I'm afraid the pet 'em & feed 'em & see how they tick approach isn't going to "cure" them. It's a choice they make...not a sickness. I would be all for giving them to medical science for experimentation, cut open their heads & see how normal they look. But my reasons would be for punishment, ultimately for deterent value. If the other sickos in the world got to see their kind tortured in a way that makes their skin want to crawl away...it might save one innocent, & if it did, it'd be worth it.
Strip off their skin & roll them in fiberglass insulation & toss 'em in shark infested salt water & that's still being too considerate of their feelings. Vengeance is mine sayeth the lord, but we can send their butts to judgement.
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So far all I've seen in uv's posts here are a plea to feel sorry for the predator and blame the behavior on a "disease or sickness". I don't buy it. Life is a series of choices every day. Those that commit those types of crimes do so because they made a choice. I refuse to feel sorry for them. My sympathy is reserved for those they prey on, they did nothing to deserve having their childhood ripped away from them just to satisfy some bipedal animal's jollies.
Society deserves to be protected from them and putting them into a hospital simply does not cut it IMO.
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umpwavxztw....
I think that most of us are perfectly capable of understanding the difference between a 14 year old being seduced by an adult and the abduction and molestation of a prepuberecent..
In the latter case.... studies show that said molester will molest about 150 children in his lifetime and bring untold missery onto the world. He is not curable by any means.... chemical or otherwise. You can not guarentee that he will take the drugs. It is pretty common knowledge that there are drugs to counteract the chemical neutering also.
My position remains that a real child molester can't be cured... he will molest again and if you kill him you will save 100's of children from a destroyed life.
I do hope that you agree that the damage caused to the molested child is irrepairable and huge.
I agree with you that they are sick. It is a sickness that we have no cure for tho and it is a sickness (like sociopathy) that has a 100% chance of destroying lives it touches.
Where we differ is that you believe that a tortured life if better than dead. By your logic we would let a rabid dog die in a cage.
face it... some people are evil... all evil people are probably just broken beyond repair but.... we can't have them out amungst us. The only way to make sure that never happens again when we catch them is to put them out of their missery before they destroy even more lives.
lazs
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His BBS moniker is "Madman".
And yes, it appears he has trouble differentiating between seduction of a minor, AKA statutory rape, and actual rape, by force, violence, or threat thereof. There's no excuse for either, and both are wrong, but they are not equal, nor are they equally wrong.
In all honesty, the truth is that it takes VERY little seduction to get a teenage male to jump all over ANY attractive female, provided she isn't related to him. That does not make it okay, but to say it is the same as other sexual offenses is to deny a lot of things only a fool would deny. It is different even than a male teacher seducing a teenage female student. To deny the difference between the male and female of the species is foolish at best. And only a fool would see anything truly similar between the two examples immediately above and any of the actual abduction/rape cases committed against actual children, or ANY forcible rape of any kind.
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Late on the reply, Wolf (partying all weekend)...but,
Amen, buddy...you know how it's done around here.
We've got one of those animals here in town, and he's been under no illusions about how life is going to work; as long as he's never seen by the light of day, noone'll hassle him. However, be seen and there will be a rash of 'tragic accidents'.
Funny how that works...or so I'm told.
To his credit (as much as it pains me to say it), he got the message day one, and keeps properly locked up when the neighborhood kids are awake. And has for the last ten years.
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Originally posted by Maverick
So far all I've seen in uv's posts here are a plea to feel sorry for the predator and blame the behavior on a "disease or sickness". I don't buy it. Life is a series of choices every day. Those that commit those types of crimes do so because they made a choice. I refuse to feel sorry for them. My sympathy is reserved for those they prey on, they did nothing to deserve having their childhood ripped away from them just to satisfy some bipedal animal's jollies.
Society deserves to be protected from them and putting them into a hospital simply does not cut it IMO.
no choice, no matter how they try, eventually they have to fall. entire problem with pedo preists is they try to escape themselves by trying to use religion as a control. and why people charged with child porn possesion offences should be minimum chemical castration, though i'd prefer a more permanent solution.
"And yes, it appears he has trouble differentiating between seduction of a minor, AKA statutory rape, and actual rape, by force, violence, or threat thereof. There's no excuse for either, and both are wrong, but they are not equal, nor are they equally wrong."
in most of the cases i cant see a real difference myself, just in one the monster has had enough of a concience instilled in him by upbringing to try and make it "lesser"
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Well, I can give you an example of statutory rape that's way off of fair.
Boy I worked with, 18 just turned (2 or 3 months) he's at a party, girl 16 (just shy of 17 by a couple of months) who has had a crush on him approaches, flirts they end up screwing.
Fast forward a couple months & her parents find out. The end result? He's in front of a judge for statutory rape & she's begging her parents & the judge & the prosecutor to let him go, telling them it was all her idea, but he is sentenced to time served & suspended sentence. Now he's a sex offender & has a criminal record & spent three weeks in jail. This kid was not jail material if you know what I mean, too frail.
This girl & him ended up married a couple years later.
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Yep. A good friend of mine nearly had his life ruined the same way. He was 24 or 25 at the time, at a party where supposedly everyone was invited and all in the same age range. Beer was flowing freely, as well as a little pot and some whiskey. Some of the people came in groups so not everyone knew everyone else directly.
This was a college town, parties were pretty common. If you saw one going on, and acted like you knew someone, you could walk right in and start drinking, no one would ever realize you were crashing.
Somehow this 16 year old girl gets in there, looks nothing like 16. Even sober I'd have never believed she was 16, looking at her later. She starts dancing with this friend of mine, before you know it they are in the back room. Nothing was said about age, he just assumed she was old enough if she was at the party. She certainly had no hesitation about participating in any of the "activities". Girl gets home later that night, sobers up a little, realizes no one used any protection and she starts to panic. Still confused by whatever was in her system and her fear of the unknown, she goes crying to her parents and says she was raped at a party.
My buddy gets arrested. He's looking at a lifetime of being labelled, losing his guns, probably losing custody of his daughter, spending time in jail ........
Finally the girl comes clean and admits she wasnt raped. Her parents are upset and drop the charges, but the state decides to charge him anyway with statutory rape. 6 months later, after all the worrying and headaches, the judge throws the case out and tells the State's Attorney where he can stick that load of crap. So lucky he didnt get a different judge, got one with some sense.
No, its not the same thing.
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This just in................
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19310780-23109,00.html
and this................
http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,19304203%5E1702,00.html