Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: GlacierGirl on May 26, 2006, 10:58:24 AM
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I wish somebody would tell me WTH is up with the collisions, I know its been brought up before, but the squeaky wheel gets the greese. I have had dozens of collisions where the guy runs into me and I come out missiong both wings my tail and a pilot wound. and he leaves without so much as a missing gear. I dont want to sound like a jerk but I think this takes precedence over new planes (as much as Id like new planes aswell). This crap has got to stop. I say make it so that when theres a collision both planes get equial damage or better yet make them both blow up. If somebody hits me I want the biggest most bad A** explosion ever that takes him with me, because thats better than him getting away with another kill and no damage.
Also with Kill shooting. Some times people fly infront of you when your guns are a blazin and you end up blasting your self out of exsistance. That will never stop so instead of you getting damage can you make it so the bullets go into the plane and leave no damage to either plane and no markings what so ever. This way the people behind you wont be able to shoot through you at planes but dont get any damage. Their bullets just kinda dissappear in your plane.
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Gosh, if only there was a way to look up previous discussions :huh
Search results collide, poster HiTech (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=243978&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)
Search results shooter, poster HiTech (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=243980&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)
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CC Murdr, lots of posts on this.
Personal view...in collisions both should die, as neither one pulled away.:aok
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Originally posted by Phtom
CC Murdr, lots of posts on this.
Personal view...in collisions both should die, as neither one pulled away.:aok
And wow, that is just what happens in AH if neither pulls away.
Who'da thunk it?
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Don't know,
Last night even a Spit16 rammed me and I died..he didn't.
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Yeah there have been alot of posts about this but if everybody stops complaining nobody will fix it. So if we bring it up enough HT will realize there is something wrong and most likey fix or tell us to deal with it.
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Read HiTech's posts. There is nothing to fix with collusions. He has explained the technicallities of it ad nasuim.
Read his killshooter posts, he explains why he prefers his way of handling friendly fire, and he is not inclined to change it.
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Originally posted by GlacierGirl
Yeah there have been alot of posts about this but if everybody stops complaining nobody will fix it. So if we bring it up enough HT will realize there is something wrong and most likey fix or tell us to deal with it.
I have read and understood how it works and why. Nothing to fix.
Now if HT would act on the head on complaints and make them impossible and take the lazer guns off the bombers because of complaints..........Now we have something worth fixing! :t
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I am so horribly tempted, but I won't.
Read up on these. The problem isn't the collision or Killshooter system, merely your perceptions of them. Both work fine, which is to say, they work exactly like they're supposed to.
In the modern world, the squeaky wheel doesn't get greased. It gets removed, replaced with another one, thrown in the trash, and then buried, dumped in the sea, or melted down and recycled. Just saying.
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Originally posted by Phtom
Don't know,
Last night even a Spit16 rammed me and I died..he didn't.
Phtom, he probably just SHOT you then.
And BTW, what your front end "sees" regarding collision is not neccessarily exactly what you see on your monitor display either (human eye tends to have trouble with 80 fps).... so what looks like a very close call on your monitor might still be counted as "collision" by your FE - hence damage.
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Originally posted by Phtom
Don't know,
Last night even a Spit16 rammed me and I died..he didn't.
Did he? Were you sitting right next to him and watching it on his screen too? How do you know he didn't avoid the collision?
You don't.
You don't know if he broke at the last moment.
You don't know if the positions of the two aircraft in his "Aces High" world even required him to dodge.
What you do know is that in his "Aces High" world he did not collide with the representation of your aircraft in his "Aces High" world. You know this because he did not take collision damage.
Your "Aces High" world and his "Aces High" world are not the same. They are not even the same, just with one a half second ahead of the other. What they are is very similar, but with sublte positioning differences. They are similar enough to have dogfights that suspend disbelief, but not similar enough to have a collision be mutual in the significant majority of cases.
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look at this link (http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/netlag.htm)
it explains a lot of the FE & lag problems with collisions
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Avoid collision and you will not have problem with it.
Dont shot if you can hit friendly and you will not have problem with killshooter.
Dont attack bombers from dead 6 and you will not need to complain about "lazer guns".
The single thing i have problems with is AI puffy acks. They kill me almost as often as enemy planes and there are little i can do to prevent it. Fly below 3k or dont approach enemy fields at all dont looks as appropriate solution.
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Sorry,
All I know is that I got a message that he collided with me, and I died. He landed his plane, and I was one of the kills.
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If you dont got message "You collided with ..." and was killed/damaged then he shot you with guns.
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The thing that really irks me is those that purposely try to ram. I try avoiding ram last night, a guy pulls up into my plane to purposely ram and I die and he flies away like nothing happened. :mad: :furious
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Purposely ramming is difficult enough that it is not feasible in a dog fight unless you're trying to get shot in the process. It seems a lot of folks confuse intentionally inducing a collision with their refusal to take evasive action prior to it.
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Did you bother to read the link I gave you Pthom? It explains it very well.
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Yes I read it Brenjen. And I understand net lags.
But according to Oleg if you get a "XX has collided with you" message then you were shot with guns :rolleyes: As long as you didn't get the "You have collided" message.
Basic point, ramming happens, and people with slower systems probably use it to their advantage. Maybe I am the only one that thinks both should die. That's okay too.
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OK, but it explains the FE too, & that's just as important or more than the Lag portion.
Your P/C decides if you collide.
Your opponents P/C decides if he collides.
If you see the white message saying "XXXX has collided with you" but you died, then...he shot you. The positional info just generated the message because you were both in the same spot at the same time on ONE of the FE's (your opponents).
If you see "you have collided" your FE has determined you were in the same spot at the same time & hit the other guy, you are assigned damage according to what your FE saw (it could be minor), if you were pulling the trigger at the same time...then your opponent might see "XXXX has collided with you" while he is going down scratching his head.
If you read the net lag article where it explains the FE & lag then this should make perfect sense, the only thing the net lag article didn't explain was the color coded text buffer messages, white like the P.M. is one FE to another or one P/C to another if that makes more sense, so the white message is his FE or yours sending the message.
So..to recap, if you got the white message "XXXX has collided with you" but it was YOU who died, he was firing his weapons & that is what killed you. He may not have seemed damaged from that collision, but he probably was, even if it was minor. His FE decided what he hit & how much damage to assign to his plane.
Heck, factor in lag & it gets really complicated with smooting codes & what not.;)
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AFAIK, anyone who collides will take some amount of damage. Not always serious, but you will take some. I've seen everything from instant explosions to just losing tailwheels. The guy who gets the orange message (the one whose system decides the 2 planes occupied the same space) will be damaged, but being able to fly away from a collision is entirely possible.
Also, I have to disagree with the remark on slower systems using this as an advantage. That's a misconception that is thrown around a lot on here, and I've yet to see proof of that being advantageous. I have one an older system with a slow connection, and it's just no advantage whatsoever.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
AFAIK, anyone who collides will take some amount of damage. Not always serious, but you will take some. I've seen everything from instant explosions to just losing tailwheels. The guy who gets the orange message (the one whose system decides the 2 planes occupied the same space) will be damaged, but being able to fly away from a collision is entirely possible.
Also, I have to disagree with the remark on slower systems using this as an advantage. That's a misconception that is thrown around a lot on here, and I've yet to see proof of that being advantageous. I have one an older system with a slow connection, and it's just no advantage whatsoever.
Another possible factor?
From talking to Skuzzy the new planes didn't just get a visual model overhaul, they have improved damage models also.
Something I'd like to try sometime in the D.A.
Two old models flying nose to nose through each other.
Two new models flying nose to nose through each other.
One old and one new model flying nose to nose through each other.
Do it with two people with approx same ping times, then also do it for a low ping and a high ping player.
See what results we get.
I get an average ping of 47ms.
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I had thought the visual depiction of the damage was updated, but not the actual damage system itself. I still see only the basics: fluid leaks, fires, pilot wounds, damaged guns, shot off flaps, control surfaces, gear, and wingtips.
Are there additional or different types of damage now?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I had thought the visual depiction of the damage was updated, but not the actual damage system itself. I still see only the basics: fluid leaks, fires, pilot wounds, damaged guns, shot off flaps, control surfaces, gear, and wingtips.
Are there additional or different types of damage now?
Dunno, he just said the damage model itself was improved.
I had mentioned that if you de-ack a field with an F6-F the first ack hit on you usually (by a large margin) takes out the same gun on the same wing.
He said it was quite possible as they were old models, and that the new ones had improved damage models.
Tiffy is the same - IF (big if) you survive a collision you lose the same gun, on the same wing, the overwhelming majority of the time. Yet again one of the older models.
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Basic point, ramming happens, and people with slower systems probably use it to their advantage. Maybe I am the only one that thinks both should die. That's okay too.
Yes both should die:t I have a video of me colliding with somebody I paused it right on contact and My wing is cutting right through the other guys wing slicing his plane in half and my plane gets away Absolutely No Damage. Now if you think there is nothing wrong with the damage modle you are wrong. In real life I highly doubt that 2 planes going head on at a combined 500mph and side swiping each other would survive. their planes should be in pieces.
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Originally posted by GlacierGirl
Basic point, ramming happens, and people with slower systems probably use it to their advantage. Maybe I am the only one that thinks both should die. That's okay too.
False.
Connection speed has no effect at all.
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Originally posted by Phtom
Yes I read it Brenjen. And I understand net lags.
But according to Oleg if you get a "XX has collided with you" message then you were shot with guns :rolleyes: As long as you didn't get the "You have collided" message.
Basic point, ramming happens, and people with slower systems probably use it to their advantage. Maybe I am the only one that thinks both should die. That's okay too.
Maybe he DID get damage, just not mortally wounded..... he might have been missing a flap or rudder or aileron or elv or guns or all of the above. Hed still have been pefectly able to land his plane.
I do not think ramming can be used on purpose with any higher % of success.... no matter the connect speed.
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I'm not being argumetative (hope its not taken that way), but I have not spent any time with networking so my question is:
How could connection speed NOT have anything to do with collisions? If both computers are dealing with the same server at different speeds, wouldn't the faster connection pick up the other plane in the same spot faster and immediately produce the collision? Sorry for the question if its complete lamen, just seeking to understand :)
For the record I always try to avoid any collision and HO (usually I am in planes that don't favor HO's lol)
If I do collide...its because I dropped on a 6 too fast and hit their back end or I find I fly into a lot of plane pieces after shooting them :lol
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Now if HT would act on the head on complaints and make them impossible
I would have to say that this is one of the funniest things I have ever read.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Phtom, he probably just SHOT you then.
And BTW, what your front end "sees" regarding collision is not neccessarily exactly what you see on your monitor display either (human eye tends to have trouble with 80 fps).... so what looks like a very close call on your monitor might still be counted as "collision" by your FE - hence damage. [/QUOTE
sugest you set vsync to always on just before you fly in AH and then set it back to normal setting when done.
This will reduce your fps slightly BUT it will reduce the what you see ain't what you get problem.
Before I did the following I SEEMEd like I was getting about 1/2 a second delay between what I saw and what was. People with newer, faster systems AND DSL or cable SEEMED to have an advantage. I was getting hit with face shots and such and the other guy wasn't even pointing at me. I was manuvering but I was manuvering LATE.
I turn off everything I don't need for AH using FSautostart AND I set Vsync to ALWAYS ON just before I go into AH. I was noticing some differences between what I saw and what the film recorded. I suggest someone video their monitor and record film and compare them. You may find they are slightly different. Vsync was one of the problems. Connect also played a role. Programs running in the background hurt me some too. No one problem was the full cause. It was all of em combined.
This has helped me considerabely. Before I could fire and miss from dead 6 at 200 yds, because what I saw was not what the computer really saw. there was lag between the cpu and the gpu. Now I can hit defelctions shots and such. I get on your dead 6 at 200 and you will very likely to go BOOM now!
My system is older. Doesn't preform as well as it used to for AH. AH has nearly outgrown my system. :huh :cry :cry :furious
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
AFAIK, anyone who collides will take some amount of damage. Not always serious, but you will take some. I've seen everything from instant explosions to just losing tailwheels. The guy who gets the orange message (the one whose system decides the 2 planes occupied the same space) will be damaged, but being able to fly away from a collision is entirely possible.
Also, I have to disagree with the remark on slower systems using this as an advantage. That's a misconception that is thrown around a lot on here, and I've yet to see proof of that being advantageous. I have one an older system with a slow connection, and it's just no advantage whatsoever.
I also have a slower system with a dialup connect at 37k.
I have to agree, it doesn't SEEM to give me ANY advatange whatsoever!
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Another possible factor?
From talking to Skuzzy the new planes didn't just get a visual model overhaul, they have improved damage models also.
Something I'd like to try sometime in the D.A.
Two old models flying nose to nose through each other.
Two new models flying nose to nose through each other.
One old and one new model flying nose to nose through each other.
Do it with two people with approx same ping times, then also do it for a low ping and a high ping player.
See what results we get.
I get an average ping of 47ms.
47ms????? on good day I get about 140 to 150 ms ping time :(
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Originally posted by wrag
47ms????? on good day I get about 140 to 150 ms ping time :(
You'd be a good candidate for my experiment (see few posts above) for the higher ping times.
Just still think that with that big a difference on where each others FE see's the opponents plane, it has to be a factor, smoothing code or not. Remembering that what you see on your FE is not where the plane actually is.
If we assume each 10ms = 50yrds difference in the FE plane position from where the plane actually is, I fail to see how it can't make a difference.
A scenario -
Two guys flying directly towards each other
The guy with lower ping will 'see' the collision long (relatively) before the guy with the high ping does.
Using mine and Wrag's ping times and the 10ms=50yrds, he would have to fly almost another 500yrds to register a collision, AFTER my FE detects it.
If he manoevers to avoid the collision in that 500yrds, he won't get one.
Or worse if the collision kills me outright, he doesn't even have to manoever, my plane has already 'gone' (according to the server) by the time he gets to where the collision would occur.
Just a theory I'd like to test in the DA if someone has 10 mins or so spare one day.
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All HT has to do is remove the "XXXX has collided with you.". Since you should take no damage from this. It would get rid of some whine on bbs and in game.
IMHO
Ohh the best unintentional ram i have been involved with.
Some one was trying to out zoom me and miss judged my e.
At the top i shot both wings off and being so slow i had very little control surface authority. As i started to lvl off the hulk of his plane droped into my flight path. We both had a good laugh once i explained what happened on my end.
People need to understand not all rams collisions are intentional. Faster closure rate than expected can has its consequences. Over speed a particular AC and the controls stiffen up might also cause a few.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Phtom
I'm not being argumetative (hope its not taken that way), but I have not spent any time with networking so my question is:
How could connection speed NOT have anything to do with collisions? If both computers are dealing with the same server at different speeds, wouldn't the faster connection pick up the other plane in the same spot faster and immediately produce the collision? Sorry for the question if its complete lamen, just seeking to understand :)
For the record I always try to avoid any collision and HO (usually I am in planes that don't favor HO's lol)
If I do collide...its because I dropped on a 6 too fast and hit their back end or I find I fly into a lot of plane pieces after shooting them :lol
If collisions were determined by the server that would be true, but they are determined by each person's FE, not by the server.
If your FE detects a collision it tells the server about it and what damage you took, the server then distributes that information to all the other FEs that need to know about it. Your FE applies the damage to you and alters the flight characteristics of your aircraft accordingly. Because the collision is determined by your FE there is no room for ping time to ever play a part.
Remember, the two AH worlds on the FEs of the two people involved in a collision are not the same, and not just by being a half second off either. There are slight (up to hundreds of yards "slight") differences in the placement of the aircraft in each FE's AH.