Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs2 on May 27, 2006, 03:26:46 PM
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Some guy noticed that the play was getting pretty stale and everyone was in nothing but the very fastest planes.... most of the planeset wasn't even getting used... mostly the slower planes were for suckers..
He sugested a rolling planeset idea that I really liked.... it was not about year of introduction because that really wouldn't have improved things...
Nope...he took four groups of planes and arranged them by performance.... years of introduction were not used. Just arranged by what would be a good matchup.
This seemed like the best idea I had ever seen for a rolling planeset but then they messed it all up...
They made it into a frigging allied vs axis mess... It should never have been that... allied vs axis made for a lot less choice and a lot less variety in the fight... you couldn't see a spit 109 team take on a FM2 205 team say..
Anyhow... I think that we are at about the point where something has to be done... we are about out of new uberplanes and introducing anything not uber is a total waste in the MA...
A non allied vs axis, performance oriented, rolling planeset just might be what we need to get some good fights going again.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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If HTC removed the uber fast rides for any period of time, the noobs and dweebs--say about 60% of the population--would log-off for the duration only to return when the hot rods were available again. Hmmm...actually, I guess that wouldn't be so bad. Give me a minute...I need some time to think of a negative aspect to the rolling planeset idea.
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I have to addmit with lazs.
I really did liked allied vs axis setup in WB beeing own arena, but today beeing used to see all against all in AH main i would be ready to "fly" some kind of RPS set, no axis/allied in main.
puujiikoo
Ps as enduro said, it may be not good for business;)
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If they did something like that you would still have the pickers and the Furballers and the vulchers and every other style you have now. It would be no different. From a marketing standpoint it would be awful. Imagine some guy coming into the game for the first time and not being able to fly his favorite WWII ride. You know he won’t be signing up at the end of 2 weeks. There is a balance between marketability, realism and game play that has to be observed. If the game becomes too niche-y it will cease to exist and then what will you play? In principle your idea is sound –for the way you play- . Not everyone plays like you and since it’s an open arena there is really no wrong way to play. Sure, I have my own style too and I get pissed off when I see people doing certain things. It’s just the nature of the beast. Perhaps we should start organizing H2H events. That way you could have more control of your environment.
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hmm... interesting... so you say that there is playability now? most are happy? could be but with more even planesets I don't think that playability could possibly suffer....
As for the newbies? do you think that they are doing great in the uber rides now? the only planes they com up against are either other newbies ho'ing em or vets in teams of uberplanes ganging em. I don't really think that anyone came here because they had allways wanted to fly a spit 16 or la la.... I don't think a fair arena would make newbies run away.
It's not like they get to pick any plane and be untouchable and get to pick on P40's.... if you see a P40 in the ma you will see a dozen guys on him...it is like spotting bigfoot.
nope... you could change the planeset every day or three and then the newbies would get to try everything in a fair environment for their 2 week free trial.
Lots are quitting now because their is no real variety or good fights.... can't imagine people leaving because they don't get to fly a certain plane for a few days.
Heck... make it 3 groups for three days each.... worst case... you got six days before you get to fly that uber ride that you simply cant live without. probly their is some less uber version of it in the earlier 2 groups tho so....
say you like spits....or 109's or 190's... you still get to fly one or another every period against planes with comparitively equal performance..
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Not a bad idea, A part of me likes it and another part is hessitant.
Anyway the point of me posting is. Whether it's this idea or one of several other ideas that have been submitted by others on the forum.
HT has the back-up arena, I don't understand why he can't try some of these ideas out in there. Give them a try for a couple of months and see what feed back he gets from the community.
It cost nothing except feed back on whether the idea would possibly work or not. I can only see positives coming from this.
I'm sure some would say if you didn't try it in the main arena no one would go to the other one to give it a try. They may be right, I don't know. But at least it's better than not giving any of these ideas a try at all.
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no one will try it if the beta test isn't implemented within the MA. i say...give it a try for 3 days or maybe 1 week. see what happens. :)
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I don't know if RPS would affect gameplay that much - you can still HO and ram in an early war plane.
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Dok is 100% correct.
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Well, we get stuck with an abysmal map for a whole week at time and the playerbase seems to tolerate it.
I doubt a 3-day RPS would drive anyone away.
True, HO and ramming will still occur. Some of the HO will be nice deflection shots that the target cries about. Some of the rams will be unintentional and/or unavoidable. There will be deliberate HO's and deliberate rams. So it would be like it is now except that there won't be such a wide variation in speed and other capabilities.
The intentional HO'ers won't have any rides that cruise 100 mph faster than other available planes. They'll be more susceptible to being made to fight.
Cod forbid.
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In theory you're right, Toad. But the rate of collisions and HO'ing is getting higher every week it seems. It's becoming ingrained behavior.
Experienced players wouldn't object to a RPS much. But the other 80% would whine like a sodomized hyena. And we heard all the whines when the ENY thing was introduced already. It won't matter that no one can fly a 51D, it's only that "I can't fly a 51D."
Maybe when CT comes out, and there's a place where the later-war planes will be in use, it could be tried. With the perk system a RPS could be interesting. During the early 1941 slot maybe a 109F4 or 190A5 are perked planes, while the P40's and whatnot aren't.
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Funny how I was all of a sudden reminded of the old AW RR vs FR crowds.
It ended up being two totally different worlds where the dedicated 'flyers' in essence 'graduated' to FR, with the core of the scenario crowd also from that world.
The air quake bunch spent most of their time in the RR arenas. All of us started in the RR world, but a much smaller bunch wanted to take it further and ended up in the FR world.
This kinda sounds like what folks are looking for. Not sure that AvA is that place, but it's soundling like it's reaching some sort of fracture point for those folks looking for more then what the MA is providing these days.
Wish I knew what the answer was.
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i would like to see RPS, then again i would also like to see a small perk price for all the late war monsters in here.
just seems silly to me to have all these great planes, but only have a select few used for the majority of time. it's not that i don't mind fighting a spit16/la7 in a p38g, it's just that what i spend most of my time doing. most newbs would fair just as well in an la7, as they would the p40. being in a better plane doesn't make you less clueless, though it is true and can HO, run and ram better.
more variety is needed. if they perked the 16/51/la7, we would just see more of some other plane, but so what, it's something different:)
vast
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But... for the sake of arguement...
Why should people be penalized from their favorite rides when others have theirs......
Sure I agree and I admit.... The LA7 & Spit 16 are uber rides.... But that doesnt mean they arent easily spanked....
But some people who are really good pilots are super uber in them.
Saying that... There are some pilots that are super uber in 38Js, 51Ds or 190Ds
What would happen when their uber rides arent available....
Just food for thought..
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I don't know either, but if the trend continues AH will become a very different gaming experience. Individual skills are going backwards. And the team play is getting more and more centered on playing the odds instead of playing the map.
It's a shame.
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deleted by me, cause I miss read what I replied too :O
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first, agrees with doc.
second, if you are good, you are good. being a good virtual pilot would seem to understand ACM, and you should know what certain planes can do better than others, regardless of what you fly. i would think flight enthusiasts would enjoy flying the earlier versions of their favorite planes, wouldn't they? what's wrong with the 51b, 190a, 38g's (besides the 38 is porked) being super uber in a spit16, or la7 isn't really saying that much, they are 2/5 of the best planes that are unperked. why can't you be super uber in a spitV and and la5? spitV turns well, though low ammo. la5 accelerates quite well as i recall.
i don't think it is should be considered penalizing, just balancing. late war planes dominate the MA. the problem i see with RPS, is hoarding. it is always nice to have the option of upping a 262 to fend off a huge attack.
dunno, could be just me:)
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Originally posted by pluck
first, agrees with doc.
second, if you are good, you are good. being a good virtual pilot would seem to understand ACM, and you should know what certain planes can do better than others, regardless of what you fly. i would think flight enthusiasts would enjoy flying the earlier versions of their favorite planes, wouldn't they? what's wrong with the 51b, 190a, 38g's (besides the 38 is porked) being super uber in a spit16, or la7 isn't really saying that much, they are 2/5 of the best planes that are unperked. why can't you be super uber in a spitV and and la5? spitV turns well, though low ammo. la5 accelerates quite well as i recall.
i don't think it is should be considered penalizing, just balancing. late war planes dominate the MA. the problem i see with RPS, is hoarding. it is always nice to have the option of upping a 262 to fend off a huge attack.
dunno, could be just me:)
Totally agree...... I have been flying a wider array of birds lately and have had a blast. So far I have really enjoyed flying the 109F4, that baby can turn on a dime!
Been flyin F6Fs & F4U-1s also plus even the early P47s
I think the real issue is that everyone knows exactly what the key areas for all the maps are and whoever is on reset corner gets ransacked over... We need new maps BADLY!!!!!
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From a pure "fun to fly" angle, the Yak-9U is my favorite plane in the game. But in the MA it's ammo load is a handicap - because the MA has become a numbers game. Numbers of players (to Horde) and number of cannons (to HO).
An RPS would allow people to fly the Yak (intro'd in the Winter of '43) against the likes of the P51B, 190A8, and 109G6 ... instead of the late-war monsters it's faced with now. And maybe some players who think there's no life beyond the La-7 or Spit-16 might find out that, in fact, there is.
And, for the early-war part of the rotation, when you don't have quad-cannon planes to work with, nor Flying Fortresses to bomb with, the methods for base capture would have to be adjusted. So the way things get done would be different as the RPS cycled through. People might have to ... think.
And why can't you have several favorite rides? And maybe ... just maybe ... it would be easier for the newbs in the Early War part of the rotation where they don't have Tiffy's and La's just waiting for them to get slow to cherry pick them. When lethalities are lower and fights last a little longer.
But the basic problem (IMO) of the MA is that the Air-Quake mentality is taking over. Both in the individual and team games. I don't want AH to lose the free-form MA ... because it can be something different every night.
But I think base damage and management needs to be changed to adapt to the higher player counts and rampant porking. Scoring needs to change to make vultching, HO'ing, and ramming less rewarding. ENY needs to be sensitive to the total number of planes attacking a country, not just what the numeric odds say the player distribution is. And certain behaviors beyond naughty words on the text buffer should be reportable offenses (spies, shooting up shades to run up a score, etc.) - because these things affect the expectation of behavior for everything else.
You could roll out 100 new maps and you'd see the exact same hordes and ho's and so on used to roll up bases. Because it works and there's no reason to do anything else.
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I played WB's for 4 or 5 years before i came here in '02
and if there is one thing i miss the most,,,it the RPS
actually being able to use planes like the Ju88 and P39
without late war rides easily smackin ya down was pretty fun
most will say,,just go to thje AvA or play alot of scenarios
but, we all know everyone is gonna be in the MA
and those "other" arenas have always struggled for attendance no matter what game were talkin about
I'd love it if HTC at least tested it for a month,just to see if peeps liked it.
that 109E vs Spit1 fight you get in may be the quite memorable
though...an RPS with an Axis-Allies set up can ruin a game if its the MA
as WB3 did,,,,MA always needs to be non Axis-Allies for balance IMO
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How about a limited number of each type...
If you loose it, it's gone.
Once a players stock of a model has have run out they need to pay perks for em....
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one word:
early war areana.
errr... one.. two.. five...
Sorry, that's five words.
Bozon
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Not to pick on anyone but bigr... you don't like it. let's look at what you fly.. bout 99% very fast late war planes... lala7... spit 16 and...mostly... tempest..
With the rps.. you could still fly the faster planes... they just wouldn't be 50-70 mph faster than the slowest planes you faced. How bad is that? how many P40's or zekes or f4f do you see now? 5%?
you could pick a fast good climbing plane like the 109e say for the first period or an F4u for the second... your tempest or spit 16 for the third.
nope... my point is that the gameplay has gotten stale because only a few planes are useful in the arena and maps we use.... introducing new planes is a waste in the current ma unless they are some bizzare uber ride. Lots of interesting early and mid war planes will never be used in the MA which is..... let's face it about 95% of this whole sim.
No matter what era... you will be able to have a faster plane than a few of the slowest... you can still trade speed for agility no matter what part of the RPS.... just not in the 50-70 mph range or the turn like a semi vs turn like a sports car.
I just don't see how more evenly matched planes and more variety would hurt gameplay.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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A non allied vs axis, performance oriented, rolling planeset just might be what we need
This has my vote , would really like to fly the early year birds more .
I try to do this from time to time but mostly you can't catch the late ones or they out damage you and all you get is "assists" .
Good idea Lazs
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Originally posted by Enduro
If HTC removed the uber fast rides for any period of time, the noobs and dweebs--say about 60% of the population--would log-off for the duration only to return when the hot rods were available again. Hmmm...actually, I guess that wouldn't be so bad. Give me a minute...I need some time to think of a negative aspect to the rolling planeset idea.
I disagree. People play this game because the like to "fly" in general. In a nutshell, this game is dead to me. And I am in 110% agreement with lazs that it needs a kick in tail. I still pay my 15 bucks a month even though I havent played in a long time, to keep giving HTC support though.
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People would whine about an RPS, and threaten to quit, just like they do about HOing, collisions, ENY limits, text filters, and spies.
And they'd keep playing, because their favorite cartoon plane doesn't keep them playing- their interest in (insert one : WW2, Aviation, Combat, Squad, Spec Events, Community), and the fact that the game is always going through some sort of change or update will keep them around.
IMO, they'll stick around simply because it's fun.
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yep.... "favorite rides" is really simplistic code for...
"I want to have a really really big advantage so the best plane is now my favorite even tho I have never even heard of a spit 16 or lala7 or tempest before I logged on here."
I doubt that there are too many guys here who have posters of spit 16's and relatives who flew nothing but em...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Early War Arena ... I'd rather not see the community split up.
Axis v. Allied MA ... I fear it'd lead to too much adoption of the "personality" of one side or the other (i.e. calling each other Nazi's and worse). AvA works as a special event format, but in the Main, with Romper Room out for summer, you're asking for trouble. There's also a vast difference in ord-carrying capability between US and LW rides, it'd skew the MA big time.
An RPS would hopefully induce people to learn something besides HO/vultch/ram/pork ... all of which get tougher in slower planes without gobs of cannons. I still think ground kills should be treated different than air kills.
The level of team play, though, needs attention as well. Since we're looking at RPS, which means also a sliding Perk and ENY scale, then I think something I suggested when ENY came out should also be considered. That is, calculate ENY based on how planes a country is in contact with, in addition to the pure numeric odds. When a country is down to a dozen bases, even if odds look "even" we all know they are not in that situation, and it can stay like that for a while. ENY doesn't address what really happens in the MA. This kind of formula provides less of an edge for Hording or ganging up.
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Originally posted by Cooley
I played WB's for 4 or 5 years before i came here in '02
and if there is one thing i miss the most,,,it the RPS
actually being able to use planes like the Ju88 and P39
without late war rides easily smackin ya down was pretty fun
most will say,,just go to thje AvA or play alot of scenarios
but, we all know everyone is gonna be in the MA
and those "other" arenas have always struggled for attendance no matter what game were talkin about
I'd love it if HTC at least tested it for a month,just to see if peeps liked it.
that 109E vs Spit1 fight you get in may be the quite memorable
though...an RPS with an Axis-Allies set up can ruin a game if its the MA
as WB3 did,,,,MA always needs to be non Axis-Allies for balance IMO
I was in WBs for three years before coming here.
I can second some of the observations above.
However.........
What killed the RPS WWIIA in Warbirds: THREE WEEK WAR (BORING) and RIDICULOUSLY CLOSE-RANGE-ONLY ICONS. People just got fed up and left. It's hard to dogfight against little black dots...
There were a *LOT* of skilled LW players and they beat the tar out of the Allies through teamwork, even with rides that could have been considered inferior at times.
What you guys may need to consider is a *THIRD* RPS Arena. A MIDDLE GROUND. It can be an RPS Axis vs. Allied... Or it can be the "balanced matchup" style without perfectly historical RPS...
Bottom line is, don't make the mistake IEN made of saying it has to be "either this or that" because the folks in the middle get left out in the cold and quit.
The WWIIA with Axis vs Allied RPS was VERY VERY popular in Warbirds until the 3WW and Icon settings changes.
Now it is a ghost town and everyone in MA is running around in a P-51, P-38L, or F6F.
BORRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIINGGGG GGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Reintroduce FesterMA map with furball island limited plane set. Also do the same on donut's fighter town. On each map we should have the option in which a area of the map has restrictions on plane set.
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Originally posted by mussie
How about a limited number of each type...
If you loose it, it's gone.
Once a players stock of a model has have run out they need to pay perks for em....
Or UBER rides are only available at "rear area" fields.
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I'm no fan of a RPS planeset because I believe it limits the choices of what a player can fly. But if a RPS planeset is going to work, there needs to be more additions to the early and middle war plane sets.
But the best solution is to stop giving a crap what someone flies but I guess a bunch of you just can't grasp that and need to whine about so and so flying a La7 or a Spitfire.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by MINNOW
But... for the sake of arguement...
Why should people be penalized from their favorite rides when others have theirs......
I don't think it should be viewed as penalizing someone. Rather its a gameplay issue much like any other gameplay issue that makes up the mechanics of this game (HO's, gun model, flight model, etc etc). As with any gameplay modification the subjective aspect is a wildcard that varies from player to player. Objectively though its a matter of whether or not it makes for better overall gameplay. Which I think lasz is correct, it would.
My two bits anywhoo
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Ack, it's not that I care if they all fly La7's and Spit16's. There've always been one or two Uber rides that half the players will fly. I enjoy those planes too on some nights.
It's what that is doing to the way the game plays in the MA that's the problem. Hell, if they actually FLEW the damn planes instead of using 'em for some weird amalgam of a demolition derby, cliff-diving, and medievel jousting I wouldn't be bothered either.
Adding EW planes in FT/FI will only fix things for the people who choose to go there. The rest of the MA will be the same mess it is now. And I'll wager that if FI goes to EW it becomes a wasteland as it gets over-run from nearby islands with late war planes.
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Originally posted by Skull-1
Or UBER rides are only available at "rear area" fields.
Yeah ... that was discussed when ENY came out too. Could be done for heavy bombers as well to stop the NOE Lancs which are back in a big way on some fronts.
Which gets back to changing base-handling in general - damage, plane availability, etc.
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Id love to see a RPS... preferably a AvA one but if not at least a RPS of the sort that Laz describes...
But I doubt its gonna happen because of the "WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I want my Pony" crowed... and the waaaaaaahmbulance is strong with AH...
Only thing I can say is AvA Arena... its always got good matchups...
If the MA crowed could graduate into the AvA we would have tons of great fighting...
Tex.
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The problem with RPS is that it limits your plane selection. In the AvA RPS when it was ran, I was eagerly waiting till P-47D11 finally arrives. In the meantime I "had" to fly 109s, and spit1 - it was fun, but after a while it felt like I'm just doing this to pass the time till the real thing arrives.
Also, as mentioned by someone, historical axis and allied theme does add some loaded atmosphere which many do not like.
lazs does have a point. "Favorite" plane is not always something the player has always dreamt about. I'm sure the La7 did not capture the imagination of 15% of the players as kids or that they've read great books about it. On the other hand - sometimes it really is just that. Some people will feal cheated if they don't get their P38/51/190 (Only Spit and 109 enjoy a full timeline of models).
I do not understand the great fear of "splitting the comunity". WWII is a long long time in aviation evolution. Long enough to support 3 eras. AH has a big comunity. The MA does not need 500+ players to be fun, perhaps the opposite is true. Players are not bound to an areana and I guess some middle war planes will be available in both (maybe as perks in the early war).
Two areanas do not force anyone to fly something. I'd split the time line at end of 43 so a few american rides make it to the early war areana and some Japs. Those who must have their P51D, Tepmests, Doras and 109K may fly the late war.
Even that is a long period for the early war (a 3rd era could be BoB but that is pushing it). At least Jabos will not carry greater bomb load that the bombers and an SBD on way to target will not be clobbered by 100 mph faster La7s. Even Stukas may find a place as a heavy loaded Jabo since all fighters did not carry more than 1 bomb (if any) at that time.
The AvA team can put up an experimental setting - MA standards but free early planeset and increasingly perked late 43 to very high perked (or unavailable) 1945.
Bozon
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Ack, it's not that I care if they all fly La7's and Spit16's. There've always been one or two Uber rides that half the players will fly. I enjoy those planes too on some nights.
It's what that is doing to the way the game plays in the MA that's the problem. Hell, if they actually FLEW the damn planes instead of using 'em for some weird amalgam of a demolition derby, cliff-diving, and medievel jousting I wouldn't be bothered either.
But a RPS plane set isn't going to change their fighting styles or make some more willing to fight. The timid pilot in the P-51D is still going to be a timid pilot in a Spitfire I.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by MINNOW
But... for the sake of arguement...
Why should people be penalized from their favorite rides when others have theirs......
Sure I agree and I admit.... The LA7 & Spit 16 are uber rides.... But that doesnt mean they arent easily spanked....
But some people who are really good pilots are super uber in them.
Saying that... There are some pilots that are super uber in 38Js, 51Ds or 190Ds
What would happen when their uber rides arent available....
Just food for thought..
I guess they would just have to learn a new plane to super uber huh? roflol
I'm just messing with ya bro.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
But a RPS plane set isn't going to change their fighting styles or make some more willing to fight. The timid pilot in the P-51D is still going to be a timid pilot in a Spitfire I.
I think we're talking about 2 different things.
"Timid" fliers won't engage without a high chance of firing on a target that can't fire back (cherry picking, extend to inifinity, whatetever ...).
"Quake" fliers won't bother doing the work to convert angles when they can get a 1:1 K/D by HO/ram with basically no effort as long as they don't mind dying every other time.
What makes the latter more of a problem is it turns the MA into a war of attrition. And thems ain't much fun.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Not to pick on anyone but bigr... you don't like it. let's look at what you fly.. bout 99% very fast late war planes... lala7... spit 16 and...mostly... tempest..
With the rps.. you could still fly the faster planes... they just wouldn't be 50-70 mph faster than the slowest planes you faced. How bad is that? how many P40's or zekes or f4f do you see now? 5%?
you could pick a fast good climbing plane like the 109e say for the first period or an F4u for the second... your tempest or spit 16 for the third.
nope... my point is that the gameplay has gotten stale because only a few planes are useful in the arena and maps we use.... introducing new planes is a waste in the current ma unless they are some bizzare uber ride. Lots of interesting early and mid war planes will never be used in the MA which is..... let's face it about 95% of this whole sim.
No matter what era... you will be able to have a faster plane than a few of the slowest... you can still trade speed for agility no matter what part of the RPS.... just not in the 50-70 mph range or the turn like a semi vs turn like a sports car.
I just don't see how more evenly matched planes and more variety would hurt gameplay.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Um actually if you LOOKED you would see i mostly fly P38. Ive had a total of like 10 flights in Spit 16 and LA7 combined this Camp. I fly the Tempest when I dont like my odds. I adapt to situations in the MA as they change. Also, I dont see the point in atacking me for what I fly when I was just trying to point out that your idea was a bad one economically speaking for HTC considering the type of people they are advertising to at the moment. Its a moot point anyway. HTC will never convert the MA to a rolling planeset...the best you will get from them is a seperate arena that maybe 15 people will play in at the most.
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So slap a perk on all the late war monsters.
a price not to high, but not too low.
Surely not all MA's problems will disperse,
but at least the effects will begin to show.
All them dweebs love the HO,
a cannon armed plane soaked up with booze.
But can they always be a mean mofo,
when it risks some perks they might lose?
If the perks can at least knock 20% off
from the total usage of all the late-war stock
then that's no small deal to scoff
or openly refuse, deny, or mock.
So come join and see through the eyes of Perkah
whom Kweassa is his prophet and spokesman.
When it comes to perk problems he is da mastah,
there ain't no guy who has a better perk plan.
:D
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I think we're talking about 2 different things.
"Timid" fliers won't engage without a high chance of firing on a target that can't fire back (cherry picking, extend to inifinity, whatetever ...).
"Quake" fliers won't bother doing the work to convert angles when they can get a 1:1 K/D by HO/ram with basically no effort as long as they don't mind dying every other time.
What makes the latter more of a problem is it turns the MA into a war of attrition. And thems ain't much fun.
How will a RPS stop the "Quake" flyers or force them to change their flying style? Wouldn't they still fly like they did without a RPS?
I agree that ever since HiTech had introduced the Top 15 contest a few years ago, the "Air Quake" and timid pilots have increased tenfold and has made the MA a rather boring place but I just don't see how a RPS will curb either behavior.
ACM is rapidly becoming, if not already, a lost art. In my opinion, a more formal training program like the old AW Acadamy would be far more beneficial.
ack-ack
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MAKE A NEW ARENA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have one MA with all planes all the time and another with a COMPETITIVE RPS.
There are enough players to go around.
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep.... "favorite rides" is really simplistic code for...
"I want to have a really really big advantage so the best plane is now my favorite even tho I have never even heard of a spit 16 or lala7 or tempest before I logged on here."
I doubt that there are too many guys here who have posters of spit 16's and relatives who flew nothing but em...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Yanno.... Im for it....
It would be fun to have an equal footing planewise with others, that would just leave Pilot skill.
Would be fun
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quote by lazs:
A non allied vs axis, performance oriented, rolling planeset just might be what we need to get some good fights going again.
IMO:
if someone cant give u a good fight in an "uber" ride how will
they give u a better fight in a less capable airplane?
quote by lazs:
nope... you could change the planeset every day or three and then the newbies would "get to try" everything "in a fair environment" for their 2 week free trial.
IMO:
shouldn't that read "be forced to try" and"in an evironment where the vets will blow you out of yer cockpit repeatedly".
quote by lazs:
Lots are quitting now because their is no real variety or good fights.
IMO:
can u quantify "lots" for me are we talking 10s 100s or 2s and 3s?
(for me overall gameplay best when there are less than 400 on)
quote by lazs:
nope... my point is that the gameplay has gotten stale because only a few planes are useful in the arena.
IMO:
i come across almost every plane availible almost every day so i guess some people find a use for these "unuseful" rides.
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Be nice if the backup arena was used for that, as well as trying new things like harder targets, and downtimes, number of troops needed etc.
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No new arena, no separate "xxxx towns".
Either whatever must be done be done inside the MA as it is, or don't change it at all. Creating a new arena for 'gvs' only or 'early war only' stuff etc etc,,is the cheapest cop-out from the problem which may seem to work for a while, but would be the ultimate downfall of AH.
Be it new perks, or RPS, or whatever, it should be done in the MA so it integrates every part of what the game has to offer into the MA as a whole. Cutting of strips and pieces of the game and slamming into separate arenas will never work.
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Maybe the solution lies in modifying a feature in Air Warrior. In that game, there were always complaints about the number of Spits being flown in some of the arenas, but you could disable the enemy's Spit factories so that none were available to them. It took a lot of ordinance to do it, so some of the best battles took place over those factories which had to be bombed several times in a coordinated effort.
So here is my suggestion: take the most popular unperked late war rides, locate the factories to produce them deep inside each country's territories, and have at it. Want to eliminate the La7 for the enemy? Blow up the La-7 factories (no need to capture them, just blow em up. Make them stay down for a few hours, but make them very hard to destroy).
Another idea taken from AW. Once fuel gets down below a certain percent, make it unusable except for German rides, which could run on lower quality gas.
Another idea (my own rant). Make HQ indestructable. It's a real pain in the butt to lose radar when you have inferior numbers and are being creamed by a horde for hours. Radar should be available in the Main to all sides at all times, especially for those at a large numerical disadvantage.
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EH... think youre right. Bringing more strat into the game would greatly improve things IMO. I wouldnt be oposed to having a "Perk Factory" where if you bombed it all perk planes would be disabled for a certain amount of time. Or maybe all planes with an ENY 6 or less. The only problem I see with this is that when a country is disadvantaged or on the brink of being reset, they would lose their perk planes. They would have to address that issue.
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Having an aircraft factory in AH like there was in AW still won't change the "air quake" flying habits that is popular in the MA. It will only limit what player can fly and not how he flies.
ack-ack
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bigr... to me... a P38 is a very fast plane. It is certainly an easy plane to b and z slow planes or dive and run in. P38 is not a plane without speed or climb.
That is what is so laughable tho (not you particularly bigr) the guys who scream about not haveing choice of not getting to fly different rides....
They don't fly but one or two planes anyway... and... they are all fast planes... they have no "choice" their "choice" is dictated by what will let them b and z a capped field in.
The ones that are saying "don't whine" or their is plenty of choice" are the ones that have it all their way right now.... their "style" is late war fast planes against slower and lower planes.... Lack of choice means lack of easy targets and them getting to fly the same uber plane or two every single day.... day in and day out. It's not about "choice" for the late war uber crowd... it's about them getting to have an advantage over enough players that they can allways find an easy kill. If they run into another uber plane they can just run.
you see many of the point potatos winning tours in slow planes? I fly an FM2... it is beyond hillarious... 6 or 8 reds will see it from their perch 5 k above me and EVERY single one will dive at me all firing for all they are worth trying to get the telling cannon head on shot on my plane... I can run and have a collection of all the fastest planes in the game chasing me... If I turn... they HO and run... some crash into the ground in the frenzy..
Guys... there is no choice in the arena right now.
others here have said that the "vets" willl beat the new guys more in my RPS arena.... How so? what good does it do the newbie to choose an lala or d9 if they can be chased down by vets in tempests or other fast planes... even 262's? Sure.. the vets may still beat the newbies but they won't do it in planes that are 20% faster.
perks? a backwards idea... the guys who should have em the least have the most of em. we have newbies with none and "vets" with so many they don't know what to do with em.... I have 22,000 perks. I could fly a tempest or 262 forever... how is that more fair for the newbie?
How is the arena we have now fair for anyone except those who claim that they "love" only the most dweeby uberplanes? How is there any variety in the MA now? what "variety" would we lose with a non ava RPS?
What real "choice" is there in the MA now? How do perks work when vets have all they could ever use?
Even maps are being made for the uber plane MA... the lack of choice in planes dictates that all the fields be too far apart... you only see early war planes when the map has some close fields of a CV is doing it's 5 minute tour.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Sooo... all the transparent self interest on all sides.... asside...
What are the real problems with said utopia RPS?
They are only a few but they are huge.
Can you imagine the whining and BB activity when the list of what planes go in what era comes out? HT will see hundreds of posts a day here about how a plane is too fast or too slow or too agil for one era or another....
The horrible maps we have now will be even more glaringly bad during the first two eras when people will have to fly forever to get to a fight.
The first problem is not solvable. The tears and threats and begging will be horrible and constant. It is really a whole lot of work added to HT
The second is sorta self regulating...my take is that the CV's will be more useful and fights will last for hours near em with much less CV killing or FH killing... also... planes will have a tendency to meet more between fields instead of the current horde to a base.
The newbies... they will be asking still "what's the fastest?" they, 90% of em won't care if the peee 51 isn't avbailable. They won't care that they die so to vets in the same plane they are flying.
To me... It is much more embarrasing to get killed by a spit 5 or FM2 while in a spit 16 or lala than to get killed by an FM2 while in a spit 5. How does the current planeset make things good for newbies...
It is not is the answer... it is worse for them.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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La7 or Spit16 factories just adds one big porking target.
Splitting the MA into several arenas ... no ... fracturing the community is bad for business.
Perks and Attaboys are having a lot of impact on player behavior. Even though vets don't care about such things, it is what guides the newer players. And with the Quake mindset so prevalent spending perks is kind of pointless since people will go out of their way to HO or ram your expensive ride.
Early War planes put a higher premium on manoever. You don't have lots and lots of cannon, you don't have quick acceleration or a wide range of top speeds. Energy tactics still work, of course, but a lot of the garbage that goes on now in the MA just doesn't work as well with EW planes, so hopefully players would change their tactics. And carry those lessons to late war planes.
RPS will not address the Quake mentality as it pertains to porking, hording, etc. - that requires changes to the underlying mechanisms of the MA.
There will be a lot of whining about RPS. "I pay to fly a P51 and now you won't let me" ... and so on. If, however, RPS was rolled out with a handful of new Early War planes (P39, Ki-43, MiG-3, B-25) so that there was more of a rationale for the change, that could help.
In the end, though, it depends on if HT thinks RPS was a "success" in WB or not.
I think RPS could help things in the MA, but in and of itself it's not a cure-all.
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yea, those P38G's really climb like raped apes and are real fast to boot...they can be caught on deck by a niki. super fast.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by killnu
yea, those P38G's really climb like raped apes and are real fast to boot...they can be caught on deck by a niki. super fast.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Did you get a better 38G then mine? I suppose it goes with being the CO. As the Permanant Latrine Officer I know mine isn't very fast at all.
Maybe if I strip off all the paint, fill in the dents, leave the ammo out and polish it up it will go faster :)
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so you feel that you stand no chance in a pee 38 against zekes and spit 1/5 and wildcats and p40's and hellcats and 109e and f and hurri and lots of early and mid war planes?
The fact that it is maybe near the bottom of the uber plane set does not make it slow or accelerate and climb badly when faced with a dozen or more other planes. It is untouchable when flown with buddies and when using alt. It is 50 mph faster than a lot of planes in the arena that are useless at this point.
gonzo... I think gameplay would have to change somewhat with the set... there would be a lot less heading to a lightly used enemy field and taking down the ack with planes that are so fast the ack can't even hit em and then bore and zoom anyone dumb enough to try to come up.
since everyone would be about equal... there would be more meeting half way. map makeres might even realize that closer fields work for a lot of gameplay and planes.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
so you feel that you stand no chance in a pee 38 against zekes and spit 1/5 and wildcats and p40's and hellcats and 109e and f and hurri and lots of early and mid war planes?
The fact that it is maybe near the bottom of the uber plane set does not make it slow or accelerate and climb badly when faced with a dozen or more other planes. It is untouchable when flown with buddies and when using alt. It is 50 mph faster than a lot of planes in the arena that are useless at this point.
gonzo... I think gameplay would have to change somewhat with the set... there would be a lot less heading to a lightly used enemy field and taking down the ack with planes that are so fast the ack can't even hit em and then bore and zoom anyone dumb enough to try to come up.
since everyone would be about equal... there would be more meeting half way. map makeres might even realize that closer fields work for a lot of gameplay and planes.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Me thinks you misunderstand the lack of seriousness in my comment. I'm just trying to have fun. I don't care what anyone else flies :)
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I don't particularly care what anyone else flys either so long as it is fair and leads to good gameplay.... what we have now is neither.... Not fair unless you pick a late war monster and..... late war monsters lead to poor gameplay for all but a few.
Look at the records of those who fly late war monsters and you will see that a lot of their kills are of inferior planes... they have a vested interest in an uneven arena.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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score.
get rid of rank and people will start to fly non-uber planes.
simple.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
score.
get rid of rank and people will start to fly non-uber planes.
simple.
If players were really concerned about rank they wouldn't be HO'ing and ramming like crazy. I would be amazingly surprised if there was any significant change to plane usage if rank were disabled for a week.
But ... lets flip the logic a second ... what if there was a published rank for each plane type as well? That is, instead of less ranks: more ranks. Maybe then folks would try other planes to become the top D3A ace. Of course, this would be subject to a wide range of abuse so it'll never work. But it could provide an incentive to fly a non-uber plane for a complete tour.
With the exception of the weird map we're on now (whatever it's called; with the lakes, and the cities in the middle of nowhere) I don't see a problem with the map designs. Range and cruising speed are all part of picking a plane to fly. I'm sure the Luftwaffe pilots in 1940 wished London was closer to the coast too.
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But ... lets flip the logic a second ... what if there was a published rank for each plane type as well? That is, instead of less ranks: more ranks. Maybe then folks would try other planes to become the top D3A ace. Of course, this would be subject to a wide range of abuse so it'll never work. But it could provide an incentive to fly a non-uber plane for a complete tour.
I like that idea.
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get rid of rank and people will start to fly non-uber planes.
Game is about killing other little pixel planes, not rank. Disable rank, people will still fly what they feel gives them the best chance to shoot down the other pixel plane...or building in some cases. Just because there is no rank involved does not mean they will jump out of their spit/la7/niki/ect ect ect into a P40B. Sad thing is, most will die in p40B just like they do in what they think is the uber ride.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I don't particularly care what anyone else flys either so long as it is fair and leads to good gameplay.... what we have now is neither.... Not fair unless you pick a late war monster and..... late war monsters lead to poor gameplay for all but a few.
Look at the records of those who fly late war monsters and you will see that a lot of their kills are of inferior planes... they have a vested interest in an uneven arena.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
I suppose the only real solution then is to have the plane of the week arena.
In the MA the only rank will be for those who fly
So who is the best FM2 pilot. Who is the best Jug driver, best 109 etc etc.
Or if it's to be completely even with only pilot skill to tell the tale, the arena only has one genaric plane that does all roles.
I'm not really serious about this btw, but it would be the only way to make things 'even' although I imagine the numbers in the arena would fluctuate greatly depending on which plane was 'the plane' that week.
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top rank for each plane / gv type with a free month from HT for those who make #1
how many planes/gvs are there? how much would that cost? ? x $14.95 = cost of great fun/expanded planeset flown/less in uber rider/less whines/more subs
oh, yeah - do the same for AvA which would help popularize it into greater numbers / more subs - it'd be less expensive here as AvA doesn't go throuigh all the planes/gvs in the AH inventory in a months time..
and the same person couldn't win it more than 3 months in a row without being forced out by " AH winner term limits" for the following month, maybe two .. nor more than one ride at a time
and I'd note this in the ah tele ads and on the web site .. money / time well spent
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Disable AH all together so you'll all have nothing to ***** about.
Hows that sound?
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Here's another notion now that I've had my coffee ...
What if multi-rank were done in conjunction with an RPS. So the ranking for P40's would include the P40B and P40E rotation of that plane up through the end of 1942 (when it ceases to be competetive). The Me109 Rank, though, would go from the beginning (109E4) to end (109K4) of the Tour. Same with the Spit.
Top Yak, Top La, Top Mustang, Top Hawker (Tiffy and Hurri combined), Top Late-War IJA (N1K and Ki84 combined), Top USN (F4F4 through to F6F), Top Corsair, etc etc ... a whole range of ranks suddenly become possible in a balanced way.
Some titles only span a part of the tour, some the whole duration, allowing a lot of depth in choosing what title(s) to go for. Obviously the top Spit title would be a crowded field, but Top La would only start in 1942-ish, leaving only a small window to compete in - which overlapped Top Yak title - which to choose? For the people who fly a ton, they could obviously go for more than 1.
You'd have to have ground rules, though. Like a player needs at least 5 kills in each variant of the plane that happen in a tour. No waiting for the La-7 to go for the La Title, you need to get 5 kills in the -5 too. And you'd need to differentiate ground targets from air targets.
How would this affect gameplay?
Don't know ... but it would allow the introduction of an RPS in a way that would add a lot of depth to the gameplay and would provide an incentive for players to stick with a plane type all through the tour, even during the period when it ain't Uber. And with more titles available and attainable, maybe people wouldn't be so quick to suicide themselves all over creation every night.
And for the veterans who don't care about ranks, well, we'd get an RPS and the opportunity to fly all the planes in a more balanced environment.
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I'm in favor of changing the gameplay because I think it has been stale for a while. However, I don't think it will be changed, because it is successful.
HT has said many times that he knows that people will quit. He really doesn't care what the folks who have been playing for a long time think - they are expected to be sick of the game. He cares about what the folks who've been playing for 1-2 years think (although I suspect 2 years is pushing it.. most folks start thinking about how to make the game "better" by then).
I don't really think there will be any serious effort made to change the MA. There won't be any changes to the perk plane list, there won't be any RPS. I guess if they need to fill the holes in a CT planeset there will be new planes introduced, but I think we probably have Germany vs US/UK pretty well covered.
It really isn't a huge deal that 75% of the planeset sits in the hangar gathering dust. If people were truly interested in a plane, they'd fly it no matter how competitive it was. Most people play this game to kill other people, and they don't care how they do it, or in what plane.
And they are having fun (for a year), and the incoming players replace the outgoing players. It is a perfectly normal phenomenon.
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You're probably right, Urchin. Don't mean I'll stop wishing for more. :aok
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slow night on the BBs
i fly a EW plane cause i'm too good for a LW plane so...
y not make everybody fly a EW plane.
the MA is what it is... plenty of variety if u know where to find it.
if this game is so stale why do u stay a paying customer?
the games not fair?
u can up the same plane as your opponent .. how is that unfair?
when i went to school i walked 5 miles up hill both wa......
o wait
thats another thread lol
:lol
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Originally posted by killnu
Sad thing is, most will die in p40B just like they do in what they think is the uber ride.
But the big differance is that in their "uber" ride they got a much better chance with those big ol' cannons on them, thats why they use them :mad:
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Originally posted by Kweassa
So slap a perk on all the late war monsters.
a price not to high, but not too low.
Surely not all MA's problems will disperse,
but at least the effects will begin to show.
All them dweebs love the HO,
a cannon armed plane soaked up with booze.
But can they always be a mean mofo,
when it risks some perks they might lose?
If the perks can at least knock 20% off
from the total usage of all the late-war stock
then that's no small deal to scoff
or openly refuse, deny, or mock.
So come join and see through the eyes of Perkah
whom Kweassa is his prophet and spokesman.
When it comes to perk problems he is da mastah,
there ain't no guy who has a better perk plan.
:D
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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gonzo... what you suggest would not hurt at all. In fact.. it would most likely help. How much? who knows? some degree tho. People would become more aware of the score potatos and thier plane choices tho...
"oh yeah he is ranked one but.... he flys only spit 16 and tem[.." kinda thing... at least it would take some of the urge to be "#1" at any cost away....
Urchin is also correct... people would not fly P40's no matter if their dad had a real one in the hangar in their home town.... unless.... the plane was comperitive. Gameplay won't change because a succesful model is allready here... by the time the newbies realize that the gameplay is unfair and simplistic and lacks good gameplay.... a new player is waiting to take his place. The steep learning curve keeps guys like soupcan thinking they are getting enough...no... more than enough variety..
soupcan says that having planes that are 50 mph hour face p40's is fair since everyone could fly the fast plane. It is only fair if everyone wants to fly an arena that has gameplay as bad as what we have now... everyone flying the same planes. It is only "variety" if you are still very low on the learning curve and seeing a really good head on shot or taking one dazzles you.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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HT has said many times that he knows that people will quit. He really doesn't care what the folks who have been playing for a long time think - they are expected to be sick of the game. He cares about what the folks who've been playing for 1-2 years think (although I suspect 2 years is pushing it.. most folks start thinking about how to make the game "better" by then).
Unfortunately this is what I have percieved as well. Hopefully once CT is done HT will come back and reinvent the MA, doubtful, but I can only hope.
soupcan your response was clueless.
I like the idea of a NON AvA RPS. Could help reinvigorate a dying MA, force people back to needing ACMs. It's not about what people are flying, or hoing or ramming, it's about fostering an atmosphere where people have to rely on their fighting skill rather than the shear ability of their planes. For this reason alone I can see why those opposed are against this idea LOLH.
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yep maybe it was clueless in your opinion but
just yesterday i encountered at least 20 different models
of aircraft in less than 2 hours of gameplay so ya to me
thats variety.
as far as my acm skills are concerned you are right
i still have a long way to go...just started trying to
hone my rolling scissors this week.
but the game is still fun for me and many others in the
MA.
1 thing i will agree with is new maps are needed.
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Guys, Soupcan is HTC's intended audience, not us.
It would be just about impossible to keep someone who's played the game for more than a couple years happy with the same gameplay and planes, but it stays enjoyable for a year or two, depending on the person.
That is whats supposed to happen. If you make the game "enjoyable" for the vets you might make it to hard for the newbies, which is exactly the opposite of what AH needs to survive.
How many people do you know that have played for more than say..3 years? I only know a handful. But, the MA consistantly has 450-500 people on during the evening - even in the summer.
Back when I was enjoying this game, there would be maybe 100-150 on. So that tells me that something about the gameplay, as stale as it may be once you've played for a long time, is enticing to people.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It is sad but true in this case. The "vets" are broke, not the game.
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Disagree, Urchin.
The "new" guys never played the game when it was designed with simpler gameplay that led to faster paced action and more individual fights.
To say they wouldn't have enjoyed it then is speculation; they've never been given the chance.
They've been offered the dreck that is the MA now and enough find it acceptable and fun.
That in no way proves that they would not enjoy the older Beta style gameplay even more.
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just yesterday i encountered at least 20 different models
of aircraft in less than 2 hours of gameplay so ya to me
thats variety.
Yeah right ... and then you woke up ... I can encounter 20 different models in maybe a week ... but never within a 2 hour period ... I call bullcrap.
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Well, lets be fair here. HT has done some things right that others hadn't which has resulted in a large player base. Things like, oh, advertising. And not turning the reins over to idjits or mega-corps.
But ...
In any technology product you have to stay ahead of the curve. AH is a MMOG, so what separates it from the IL2 games is what you can do online as opposed to the whizziest explosion effects, or pixel-perfect cockpits. CT is a step ahead, but I don't know how broad its appeal will be; or what effect it'll have on the MA.
The current product (the MA) churns people through at a pace which is paying the bills. If spending some time reworking the MA mechanics resulted in maybe 1/4 or 1/3 more of the players staying more than two years, well, that's just more money in the bank.
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Make an area of the map that only early war planes can launch.
Separate it with a little distance (say 2 secotrs). If you want to capture these bases you pretty much have to do it with early planes.
I would also use this technique to do an Allied vs Axis map area.
If we can have tank town and fighter town, why not early war town?
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Fester had a remedy for the problems we have when he created festerma. By disabling buffs and only EW planes on furball island. Great map that had something for everyone to enjoy. No need to split the community, just create a area on the map where all 3 countries meet and limit planes with no buffs.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The current product (the MA) churns people through at a pace which is paying the bills. If spending some time reworking the MA mechanics resulted in maybe 1/4 or 1/3 more of the players staying more than two years, well, that's just more money in the bank.
OTOH, noobs don't start threads like this. Noobs don't complain about flap modelling, or question weapon ballistics, or ask why CT has taken most of their (young) adult lives, and there's only a few screenshots to show for it.
Noobs, basically, just pay their money, and have fun flying whatever plane they can figure out how to select. In that regard, I can understand why HTC is more concerned with getting more of them in, than keeping more of us around.
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killjoy... a few years ago I suggested an early war area for maps that was in essence... our fighter town on that one good map we now have except... I wanted late war beasts to not be available.
you should have seen the outrage! My taking away choice! never mind that the whole rest of the arena would still be "anything goes"
the guys you see protesting about making things more fair for early war planes.... what they really want is to see early war planes have to compete with their late war ones... that is all they really are about... they simply do not want to give up their unfair advantage.
Also... what they really fear is.... that if there was an early war area on the maps that people would go there and not play with them... that no early war easy to kill planes would be left for them to get some easy and unfair kills on.
I would love to see a fighter town area on every map and have it be an early/mid war only area.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I must be the only one that likes the MA the way it is.. I roll whatever I want, and when I want.. If I notice a horde incoming I find a different fight, if I cant find a different fight (Which has hardly ever happened, I go to AvA). Sometimes I opt to fight the horde, if I die too bad, it was my decision so why get upset?
The gameplay seems fine to me. I don't expect to stay alive in a P40 when entering a spit16 furball, so my intention is get as many as I can while living. And this has been the same way for the past 5 or so years, nothing has changed for me, and I somewhat want it to stay that way.
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An EW FT won't help the MA as a whole.
Pork-Horde-Vultch-Repeat just gets boring and that's the rut the MA has fallen into.
And I don't think that just because the vets are posting about it is all that relevant - the BBS population has always been a small fraction of the whole. A lot of the newer players probably just assume the MA is what it is, and make their decision to stay or go based on that; not knowing these discussions are even going on.
I think what the more experienced players see is that the MA could be so much better with some tweaking, regardless of what plane/style you prefer.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
[
Yeah right ... and then you woke up ... I can encounter 20 different models in maybe a week ... but never within a 2 hour period ... I call bullcrap. [/B]
not BS here is my list of planes seen so far today:
(been online 1.5 hours)
lancs 24s 17s tbm seafire 4fu la5 la7 spit16 f4f f6f 190 hurri
109 mossie niki p51 p47 yak c205
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I think what the more experienced players see is that the MA could be so much better with some tweaking, regardless of what plane/style you prefer.
That and seeing that it was far better before. As we continued down the road to incompletely planned and incompletely executed complexity (strat system????), the gameplay tanked.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
just yesterday i encountered at least 20 different models
of aircraft in less than 2 hours of gameplay so ya to me
thats variety.
Yeah right ... and then you woke up ... I can encounter 20 different models in maybe a week ... but never within a 2 hour period ... I call bullcrap.
I was online today two times, fighting basically one offensive and one prologened defensive battle, total flight time about 3h. I took a quick look at some of my films (I am filming most engagements) and found following plane types:
F4F, F4U-C/D/4, Spit 16, Spit VIII, Mossie, B24, B17, Lancaster, Ju88, Yak9, Bf109K, P51D, P51B, P47D, P38G&L, P47N, P40E, Il2,Bf110G,Fw190A5, Fw109A8, La7, La5, N1K, Hurri2c,Ki84 ,C205,F6F
I just wonder why I did not see any Typhoon or Hurri2C...
But there could have been some more I encountered, but I did not want to watch every film from start to end.
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Originally posted by Toad
That and seeing that it was far better before. As we continued down the road to incompletely planned and incompletely executed complexity (strat system????), the gameplay tanked.
Strategic elements (like factories - not barracks) have been difficult to implement since ... forever. If you make it too difficult to do, no one bothers. If you make a strat really damaging to a side if it's destroyed, it'll get porked (as opposed to the proper coordinated missions that were the design goal). The bomber guys invest a lot of time getting to a strat target, they don't want to be wiped out by a handful of jets when they're a minute from dropping. By the same token, people who want to fly fighters don't want to constantly be a pincushion to the defensive guns of bomber formations. It's a really tough balance.
I think the core of "the problem" is that AH2 has absorbed a lot of new people and hasn't changed to accomodate the drift towards the "gamer" mindset that has ensued. The value system (for want of a better term) that worked OK for the original playerbase is now fostering the decline we now see.
To a gamer entering AH2, all they see if the power-ups of perks and the Atta-boys from landing kills as individual goals. And for those into The War, all they need is numbers and lots of cannon-armed planes to HO and vultch with and eventually they win by attrition if nothing else.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Here's another notion now that I've had my coffee ...
What if multi-rank were done in conjunction with an RPS. So the ranking for P40's would include the P40B and P40E rotation of that plane up through the end of 1942 (when it ceases to be competetive). The Me109 Rank, though, would go from the beginning (109E4) to end (109K4) of the Tour. Same with the Spit.
And for the veterans who don't care about ranks, well, we'd get an RPS and the opportunity to fly all the planes in a more balanced environment.
You know, that's the first scoring system I've seen that I'd actually have a modicum of interest in. The RPS/evolving score based on plane type would add a rather interesting flavour to things I think. Its actually a bit of an avatar type format, albeit a very loose one. An interesting format though to be sure.
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Originally posted by Urchin
How many people do you know that have played for more than say..3 years? I only know a handful.
Wow...increase your circle of AH friends. Quite a bit of us have been here in AH for 3+ years and some have been playing these games for 10+ years. And I'd say that we're in the majority too.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
ACM is rapidly becoming, if not already, a lost art. In my opinion, a more formal training program like the old AW Acadamy would be far more beneficial.
ack-ack [/B]
Woot yeah! I would sign up in a heartbeat. Please bring it on.
Spec4462
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Interesting coming back from a 3 year hiatus.... many of the subjects are exactly the same. Its frightening to some extent.
I liked the introduction-year based RPS in WB... but that puts me in the minority. I would be curious to see the usage statistics from when that was in place, but my guess would be that it dropped significantly during the early war period.
I almost exclusively fly the P40E (and not particularly well especially at the moment). 'Course the E is not truly non-Uber... but you get the drift. I relish the more realistic encounters with the enema... and there are enough of those to at least keep it interesting. Not saying that 38L meat doesn't taste good over the grill.
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Splitting the arena is one of the best ideas. There is enough to go around. People who do not care for the competitive gameplay will stay in the original arena.
Those who are a bit more competitive will joust in the RPS arena.
The numbers are about even and game play would increase for both types of virtual pilots.
There, that was easy.......
Next!!
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Personally I am all for slight perk on late model war planes.
Secondly this isnt air warrior I personally could care a less what they did there.
A rolling plane set would not change the current MA environment, people will still fly the way they want to.
However perking the late model war rides would result in a situation where people say "if im paying I'm flying it"
Maybe we should all consider "earning" a late model ride.By this I mean we all have our favourite late model plane.
Perhaps so many points are needed for the next plane and so many more needed for the next etc.Tie this in to kills, deaths, collisions, where positive and negative points could be applied.
I dont know im just throwing this out there. I do agree the MA needs to stop stagnating.
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Hopefully, CT will be out soon.
Maybe in the meantime have a ( bucket of water by side to put out the flames) RR arena.
Harden everything in the MA some and/or cut down on resupply requirements. make it easier to pork in the RR arena.
Shut off stalls and redout in RR ?
That should thin out the MA after a couple of months.
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I'd like to see HTC have a test arena where they experiment with setups like this.
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Originally posted by smash
I liked the introduction-year based RPS in WB... but that puts me in the minority. I would be curious to see the usage statistics from when that was in place, but my guess would be that it dropped significantly during the early war period.
I agree smash, that was my impression at WB. First few days were sparsely populated. Last day you couldn't move for swarms of 262s!
That notwithstanding I like the idea of RPS but HTC aren't going to introduce it to cater for the interests of the EW model crowd if they loose customers as a result (sadly).
BTW quite a few posts above talk about Tempest, La7, Spit xvi in one breath as late war planes. Check the dates, Spit xvi was introduced way before. It might be "uber" but it's not a "late war monster".
Regards:)
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Originally posted by eh
Maybe the solution lies in modifying a feature in Air Warrior. In that game, there were always complaints about the number of Spits being flown in some of the arenas, but you could disable the enemy's Spit factories so that none were available to them. It took a lot of ordinance to do it, so some of the best battles took place over those factories which had to be bombed several times in a coordinated effort.
So here is my suggestion: take the most popular unperked late war rides, locate the factories to produce them deep inside each country's territories, and have at it. Want to eliminate the La7 for the enemy? Blow up the La-7 factories (no need to capture them, just blow em up. Make them stay down for a few hours, but make them very hard to destroy).
Another idea taken from AW. Once fuel gets down below a certain percent, make it unusable except for German rides, which could run on lower quality gas.
Another idea (my own rant). Make HQ indestructable. It's a real pain in the butt to lose radar when you have inferior numbers and are being creamed by a horde for hours. Radar should be available in the Main to all sides at all times, especially for those at a large numerical disadvantage.
I was thinking of this too. I think it's a good idea. Another idea would be to have certain hangars on every field dedicated to certain planes. So, if you bomb the right hangar on the big pad for example, the enemy loses the late war fighters. They could still up fighters as long as they have a hangar up, but they might not be the late war favorites. The hangars could house planes from different war years, say 41-42, 42-43, 43-44, 44-45.
If someone wants to up a certain plane, he might have to go to his nearest friendly field where they are still available. Otherwise, he'll have to take whatever fighters are still available at that field. Since everyone would be trying to pork their nme's best fighters, things would stay pretty even in a given area.
The hangars don't stay down long enough to do much good anyway, so nobody would be put out for a great length of time, but you'd see a lot more of the early warbirds in the air on frequent occasions.
F4j
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the problem with killing late war fighters as a strat issue is obvious.... You will increase the horde mentality... no one wants to be on the side with no late war uber rides....
The side with the most numbers will also have all the sissy planes.
You will make it so that more, not less, sissy planes are up... the thinking being... get em while you can. Flying early war planes will be percieved as a punishment.
nope... you need to reward the behavior of flying early war planes... Let's face it, they have a tough time in the arena so let's throw em a bone...
A fighter town area for only early war planes or.... a non AvA 3 chunk/era RPS based on performance.
I have allways liked the early war area idea. I think I brought it up a couple of years ago... it would reward people who liked to furball and people who liked early war planes by giving them a sissy plane free area to furball in. It would keep out the B & Z girls who look at fighter town as a way to pad their K/D in their late war sissy rides.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Something along these lines would be nice. I might even be tempted to come back. I quit a few months ago due to the "gameplay" or lack thereof. Won't be back / pay until it improves. :(
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Don't like the idea of a rps.
Some poeple actually like to fly disadvantaged planes.
All I really fly are the ponies, though. I will go on the deck, slow down and fight anyone. I don't care if I die, but I like to take on the turning planes and planes that I'm not *supposed* to be able to dogfight. I die all the time doing this.
If people like to fly the slow planes, then that's really a choice they make. Don't penalize other people with a limited planset just because you like to fly early war birds.
Maybe have a rps arena for those who like to keep things more on par. I'd bet that not a whole lot of people would be in that arena though, compaired to the main as it is.
For me, I like to just up in a pony and get to the fight quick, have fun for a couple hours, then log off. I don't care what anyone else flys.
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big... that may be the case.. your dad may have flown a pony in the war but...
I have never seen anyone fly one like you do in the pony... I have never seen you for that matter. I would think that if you liked the pony you would like the P40 during an early stage of a RPS... a whole lot of real pony drivers started out in P40's.
As for people who like to fly disadvantaged planes.... yes.. they exist.. I am one but.... these "people" would just as soon have a real fight or at least a semi fair one.. no matter what planesets were made... there would allways be better and worse planes to choose from....
the gap just wouldn't be allmost 100 mph.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
big... that may be the case.. your dad may have flown a pony in the war but...
I have never seen anyone fly one like you do in the pony... I have never seen you for that matter. I would think that if you liked the pony you would like the P40 during an early stage of a RPS... a whole lot of real pony drivers started out in P40's.
As for people who like to fly disadvantaged planes.... yes.. they exist.. I am one but.... these "people" would just as soon have a real fight or at least a semi fair one.. no matter what planesets were made... there would allways be better and worse planes to choose from....
the gap just wouldn't be allmost 100 mph.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
I decided to fly an FM2 in fighter town today, instead of the pony.
I found that the FM2 is one of the easiest planes in the game to fly and survive in, in FT. You don't need speed when you can turn in a plane like the FM2.
In a massive furball, all you have to do is yank into a sharp turn at the first sign of danger, and the enemy will not be able to hit you 98% of the time. The FM2 is a freakin MONSTER.
I landed more kills in the FM2 than I ever did in a Pony.
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great... I would love to fight a lot more FM2's... most of the guys flying em are pretty sad.
It is the most uber plane in the arena. I had been trying to keep that a secret tho but now you have went and told everyone.
I did get to fight you in the FT the other day for what had to be the first time. Nice moves in the pony and you and the other guy were down low. Course..... I was in the unbeatable FM2.
I expect all the uber plane peee 51 and lala and 16 guys will migrate toward the superior FM2 now.
I got Xdak out of his tifie and into one and he did very well too.
The secret is out.... Only the P40 remains as an undiscovered uberplane.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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FM2 is just a poor man's Hurricane.
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Originally posted by lazs2
great... I would love to fight a lot more FM2's... most of the guys flying em are pretty sad.
It is the most uber plane in the arena. I had been trying to keep that a secret tho but now you have went and told everyone.
I did get to fight you in the FT the other day for what had to be the first time. Nice moves in the pony and you and the other guy were down low. Course..... I was in the unbeatable FM2.
I expect all the uber plane peee 51 and lala and 16 guys will migrate toward the superior FM2 now.
I got Xdak out of his tifie and into one and he did very well too.
The secret is out.... Only the P40 remains as an undiscovered uberplane.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
lol.
I did have a lot of fun in the FM2. I think it's a great plane choice for FT, but maybe could see how it would less fun on some of the other maps.
b.t.w., I remember talking with you on range vox a few times when you were Rook.
You might be seeing more of me nowadays, since I used to play very late at night mostly.........but now I try to be in bed by 8pm due to work, so Im on earlier.
I think I remember our ecounter the other day. I know I saw a lot of Xdat.
Anyway, hopefully we'll cross paths again.
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furball... isnt the hurri made of like.... rags and sticks?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's