Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dastrdly on May 27, 2006, 07:34:26 PM
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A few months back when I was flying with the Rooks there were times when the restrictions on planes was no lower value than 29. Since I have become a Knight there are times (usually most) we are out numbered, this especially occurs in the late hours when overall numbers are low. Yet, it seems that we are still flying against large numbers of spit XVI's, LA's, etc. Ive heard a few different explanations for this. What is the proper explanation? How does it work? Does it work? Can it be adjusted, if so should it be set differently? How are the rest of the Knights finding the situation? Any feed back will be appreciated.
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A horde of early model P47's are just as deadly as a horde of La7's. It's the horde mentality, not the planes. If you are in a 7vs1 it don't matter much what they are flying.
What I said may not answer your questions. But from my perspective, those questions are unimportant when you are getting steam rolled.
Oh... and welcome to the boards. Be sure to purchase a flak vest:D
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Works like this, simply put -
Once the total number of players in the MA exceeds 200, it starts looking at the individual country numbers.
When a large enough disparity exists ENY limits start kicking in.
At present it seems to be around 50-60 more players than the lowest for it to start working.
It used to start with less of a difference and kick in less harsh than it does now. But enough complaints got HT to change it to the current "more of a difference and kicks in harder".
I only think one change is maybe needed -
ENY limits up to 5 are pointless, why not just make any number less than 5 equal 5.
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I think it worked well when HT implemented it. You rarely see ENY kick in now that he went soft on it though... People would rather whine and moan about ENY than be a "traitor" and be able to fly whatever they want.
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I dont know, I think #s have equaled out in the past few months. Yea there are some nights where 1 country has more #s than another but usually they are pretty equal now.
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I would like to see stiffer ENY restrictions, and allow people to change countries to the side with lowest numbers, without being restricted by the timer built in currently.
HiTech's posted the formula and exact numbers in the past, but Kev's description is close enough for the purposes of this discussion. It does work to some extent, since it offers some encourage in the way of perk multipliers and ENY restrictions, but I think there's still a little room for tweaking.
FWIW, last night was as bad as I've seen it in a few weeks. Granted, numbers were horribly skewed a while back, but the influx of newer players (who weren't much more than gun fodder for a bit) somewhat offset that imbalance. Despite logging on last night to find the rooks with nearly double the numbers the knits had, and the bish with 50 or 60 more players, within a few hours, the knits outnumbered the bish by a similar margin, and the rooks numbers had also dropped dramatically.
I don't know if that's due to sidebalancing or not, but it's nice to see the numbers reach some sort of balance, as opposed to facing a horde perpetually.
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Limiting the sides is pointless... Kinda like the welfare perk system... The purpose of the game is to have the war won or lost... The side balancing only encourages a stalemate... kinda like the way congress works when you think about it...
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Originally posted by Kev367th
I only think one change is maybe needed -
ENY limits up to 5 are pointless, why not just make any number less than 5 equal 5.
That is an excellent idea...never thought of that
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The knights are almost always outnumbered. But it is better than it was...much better.
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Limiting the sides is pointless... Kinda like the welfare perk system... The purpose of the game is to have the war won or lost... The side balancing only encourages a stalemate... kinda like the way congress works when you think about it...
The purpose of the game is for people to be entertained, and pay HTC for that entertainment. Don't confuse the game with the real world. Saying that "one side has to be in the barrel all the time because that's how real war is", is well, stupid.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I would like to see stiffer ENY restrictions, and allow people to change countries to the side with lowest numbers, without being restricted by the timer built in currently.
HiTech's posted the formula and exact numbers in the past, but Kev's description is close enough for the purposes of this discussion. It does work to some extent, since it offers some encourage in the way of perk multipliers and ENY restrictions, but I think there's still a little room for tweaking.
FWIW, last night was as bad as I've seen it in a few weeks. Granted, numbers were horribly skewed a while back, but the influx of newer players (who weren't much more than gun fodder for a bit) somewhat offset that imbalance. Despite logging on last night to find the rooks with nearly double the numbers the knits had, and the bish with 50 or 60 more players, within a few hours, the knits outnumbered the bish by a similar margin, and the rooks numbers had also dropped dramatically.
I don't know if that's due to sidebalancing or not, but it's nice to see the numbers reach some sort of balance, as opposed to facing a horde perpetually.
Think alot of the numbers change you saw last night was due to FSO starting. Alot of guys left to go and do that. I may be wrong, you may be talking about a different time of night.
As for the ENY helping balance sides. I personnaly don't see to many going to the lower sides. I do see a lot log off because of it. which in turn helps a little i guess.
I agree with hub on the part obout the side switching time. I would switch more often if I knew I could come back to my original side my squad flies any time I wanted. I know the main arguement for not allowing this is the big SPY controversy. Pop over the the other side see what there doing and pop back to counter them.
No real easy answer i guess
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Limiting the sides is pointless... Kinda like the welfare perk system... The purpose of the game is to have the war won or lost... The side balancing only encourages a stalemate... kinda like the way congress works when you think about it...
I beg to differ. The purpose of the game is to entertain the paying customer. There is no war to be won or lost.
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Limiting the sides is pointless... Kinda like the welfare perk system... The purpose of the game is to have the war won or lost... The side balancing only encourages a stalemate... kinda like the way congress works when you think about it...
The purpose of the game is for people to be entertained, and pay HTC for that entertainment. Don't confuse the game with the real world. Saying that "one side has to be in the barrel all the time because that's how real war is", is well, stupid.
The issue is you are now punishing cooperative play
Success is rewarded with punative restrictions as the less able get cheaper and cheaper perk planes, while those who strive for success, are not only penalized with higher costing perk planes, but the outright removal of reasonably preforming aircraft from their hangers.
Tactical, strategic gameplay has gone away. There is little use for the cooperation and multi-squad opps that made the game such a great community even in the past. All we have at the moment is an ongoing attempt to find the most active enemy base, and vulch it.
Socialism at its finest represented by in game ENY restrictions.
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Originally posted by ALF
The issue is you are now punishing cooperative play
Success is rewarded with punative restrictions as the less able get cheaper and cheaper perk planes, while those who strive for success, are not only penalized with higher costing perk planes, but the outright removal of reasonably preforming aircraft from their hangers.
Tactical, strategic gameplay has gone away. There is little use for the cooperation and multi-squad opps that made the game such a great community even in the past. All we have at the moment is an ongoing attempt to find the most active enemy base, and vulch it.
Socialism at its finest represented by in game ENY restrictions.
hahahaha
So take your whole squad to the side with the low numbers and see how SUCCESSFUL you are against superior numbers.
Ohh I agree with Hub the ENY should be more aggressive.
Bronk
EDIT: Had to fix the mess I quoted. It had part of the post alf had quoted also.
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Originally posted by Bronk
The issue is you are now punishing cooperative play
Success is rewarded with punative restrictions as the less able get cheaper and cheaper perk planes, while those who strive for success, are not only penalized with higher costing perk planes, but the outright removal of reasonably preforming aircraft from their hangers.
Tactical, strategic gameplay has gone away. There is little use for the cooperation and multi-squad opps that made the game such a great community even in the past. All we have at the moment is an ongoing attempt to find the most active enemy base, and vulch it.
Socialism at its finest represented by in game ENY restrictions.
hahahaha
So take your whole squad to the side with the low numbers and see how SUCCESSFUL you are against superior numbers.
Ohh I agree with Hub the ENY should be more aggressive.
Bronk [/B][/QUOTE]
It used to be (first introduced), and was changed to its current settings because of all the complaints.
A big difference could be made by doing away with ENY numbers from 0.1 to 4.99, theres no planes in that range anyway.
Just make any ENY limit less than 5, equal 5.
Result ENY limits cut in earlier and at current scalings.
I think at the moment on average one side has to outnumber the lowest side by 50-60 people before ENY 5 is reached, thats a big difference.
Plus reduce the change sides time from current 5 or 6hrs? to 3hrs.
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Kev
The only problem i would see in reducing the time is the perk jumpers.
If it could be coded in separately say 6 hour diff before you get perk for reset.
Other than that bring em both.
Bronk
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I would have to disagree with you, Alf. I have seen the side with the lower numbers reset the map. Not often, granted, but I've seen it a few times. That is cooperation and teamwork.
Having double the numbers and just steamrolling everyone, not through cooperation or planning, or multi squad raids, but just by having the biggest horde isn't really my idea of a behavior that should be rewarded, and that's mostly what I see anymore.
To paraphrase HT, Games are meant to be fun and fair; war is meant to be neither. This isn't war, this is a game, and all the other paying customers should be able to have some fun, too. A horde is a horde, but not having to face strictly late war planes does help in that respect.
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Alf please explain to me how ENY prohibits squad operations and teamwork? Does the evil ENY limiter keep you from planning missions and winging up with anyone esle?
I need a good laugh, so make it good.
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Originally posted by Stang
Alf please explain to me how ENY prohibits squad operations and teamwork? Does the evil ENY limiter keep you from planning missions and winging up with anyone esle?
I need a good laugh, so make it good.
HEHE
We cant up mass B-24s instead we have to use Ju88s and there defenceive guns suck. :furious :furious
We also cant us La7s and must use La5s and we all know the 5 is not as good in the ho. Once again :furious :furious
:D :D
Bronk
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I have created and responded to a few posts on this subject in the past 3 - 4 months.
During prime time weekdays and weekends the knights are holding their own numbers wise and sometimes may have the most players on (but usually by no more then 10-20%).
But consistantly for the past 4 months and posibly longer the knights are heavely outmanned during non prime time (M-F 2:00 AM EDT to 11:00 AM EDT). Many times during this time frame it is typical to see numbers like:
Bish - 60
Rooks- 50
Knights -25
To make matters worse when this happens the bish and rook realise that if they both just fight a one front war against the knights then the Knights are easy pickins being outnumbers by ratio's like 110 players to 25.
ENY would help during times like this when the mis balanced ratios justify it, by at least taking the Spit16/LA7/Niki/P51D away from the hoarding masses, but the little known fact about the way Hitech implemented ENY is it will never kick in untill there are at least 200 players logged into the MA. So during non peak hours when the MA stays between 90 and 170 players most of the time the outnumbers Knights ( or whoevers turn it is to be outnumbered and slautered by the horde) never get a chance to have ENY try and help them.
*** My sugestion would be to let ENY kick in the MA when the ratios misbalance justifies it (as the current modeled ENY works), but to modify the minimum MA number rule from 200 players down to 100 players. That way at least the sidewith 20-30 players would have a chance!!!. The way it is now you just take cannons up the prettythang the nose and the sides all at the same time by the 110 to 25 player horde coming at you. ***
P.S. - I usually log in at least 100 hours a month and most of my playing time is during the non peak early morning hours I mentioned above, and i can definetely say that Knights have been on the low side of this Non-Peak time MA play for at least the last 4 months and probably longer. There may be an occasional non peak morning when we have close to even sides or a slight edge in numbers, but i would say 85% of the non-peak mornings for the past 4 months knights are definetrly heavely outnumbered and it would be nice if ENY was helping us then.
I am sure when the tide swings and rooks or bish are on the short side of the Non-Peak early morning side misbalance they would also appreciate help from the ENY system, but until Hitech changes the minimum MA players rule to something lower then 200 players (hopefully closer to 100) then the short sided side is always going to get steam rolled.
Rooks and Bish better hope Hitech does not change the ENY 200 player minimum rule because if he did you guys would never win another war. The only reason Knights loose the wars now is because during the Morning non-peak time horde attacks you guys take back all the bases and then some that we won from you the night befor when the numbers are more even!!!
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Originally posted by Stang
Alf please explain to me how ENY prohibits squad operations and teamwork? Does the evil ENY limiter keep you from planning missions and winging up with anyone esle?
I need a good laugh, so make it good.
It doesnt prevent it, is discourages it....which in the end has the same effect. Missions can and are destroyed and fragmented when you spend 10 minutes gathering enough participants, and at launch half of them get the ENY error, so you end up having wasted all that time, as most who get the error arnt going to bother trying to find alternate aircraft....and its an imperfect solution anyway as you now have planes with vastly differnt speed, climb and ranges.
Next time, you dont bother making a mission, and if you try, noone wants to join because of the bad experience that had last time with it being a fuster cluck.
Take a look at the typical MA operation today vers 2 years ago.
Today you have 1-2 massive furballs with a vulchfest being very common, and almost noone takes bases.....I havnt see a good in 3 weeks. We have this massive map with all kinds of strategic planning in it, all for naught, as you may as well just play in a 25x25 mile box....thats whats happening anyway.
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Flew knight today, I had trouble getting 15 scalps in my 38 against a hoarde 3 times the size. After I started headed out for fuel, I still had 1000 rounds left of mg. It was 6 knights vs about 20 bish. Only 1 or 2 knights were shot down and the rest made it out. 1 died to puff ack and the other died to field ack. Rest of us 4 made it out and landed.
So yes I know what its like to fly against superior numbers, its not hard if they all suck.
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I like ENY not as an incentive to switch sides, but as a means to make less flown planes see some use. Im not going to jump ship just because I cant fly a certain plane though. Im in a squad and want to fly with them.If I was a lone wolf Id have no problems at all with it.
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Originally posted by ALF
It doesnt prevent it, is discourages it....which in the end has the same effect. Missions can and are destroyed and fragmented when you spend 10 minutes gathering enough participants, and at launch half of them get the ENY error, so you end up having wasted all that time, as most who get the error arnt going to bother trying to find alternate aircraft....and its an imperfect solution anyway as you now have planes with vastly differnt speed, climb and ranges.
Next time, you dont bother making a mission, and if you try, noone wants to join because of the bad experience that had last time with it being a fuster cluck.
That's not ENY, that's the mission planner's problem. That's equivalent to saying that allowing troops and ord to be porked discourages teamwork and organization.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
Flew knight today, I had trouble getting 15 scalps in my 38 against a hoarde 3 times the size. After I started headed out for fuel, I still had 1000 rounds left of mg. It was 6 knights vs about 20 bish. Only 1 or 2 knights were shot down and the rest made it out. 1 died to puff ack and the other died to field ack. Rest of us 4 made it out and landed.
So yes I know what its like to fly against superior numbers, its not hard if they all suck.
*no trouble
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That is what Ive been getting at! I fly alot of off hours myself. I agree totally that that is when ENY is needed the most. People butter it up but it sucks to know evey time u up its against a horde. Ive run out of ammo many times just cant land or escape the continuous onslaught & die at the hands of fresh 16s & LAs.
I also agree that 100 could be the magic number, it would definitely discourage ganging up on the low side during the late hours.
There are alot of late model planes that are under rated & i think some players would be suprised that they can be successful in something other than an LA, 16, etc. Other than the Ki84 i fly nothing but late models. I can honestly say that it was ENY sanctions that forced me out of my box!
When it comes to missions ive tried to post some using late model planes & received poor interest - reviews. I think a mission of 110s, 88s & 109s have same chance as any mission full of spits, nikki's, 24s & other planes that would never of flown together. If its planned right ! Thats strategy!
If you ask me i think ENY sanctions would not be a loss.... it would bring more to the game for everybody!