Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LePaul on May 28, 2006, 02:55:46 PM

Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 28, 2006, 02:55:46 PM
Well a year ago my Doc put me on Lipitor to lower my cholesterol.  Oh it dropped alright...but the constant fatigue and achiness sucked.  The side effects were terrible.  So for the past few months, the Dr gave me the green light to try it on my own thru diet and exercise.

Well, I'm still on the high side after being a vegetarian/fiber nut/health nut.  Its just high due to my genetics.

So I agreed to try that Vytorin stuff Friday.  Woke up this morning feeling as if someone kicked me in the back.  Did a few web searches...yup, known side effect (back pain).

Decided Im not taking anymore of this stuff and calling the Dr Tuesday about trying something NON-Statin.  

Toad, wish my genetics was different, did a lot of the stuff you said, cardio tabs and all.  My liver just cranks the stuff out.

Anyone tried the resins?
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: storch on May 28, 2006, 04:49:31 PM
I quit using the statins four years ago for the same reasons.  my cholesterol levels are also a little high due to genetic factors as well.  try flax seed oil, omega three fatty acids, celery and grains.  my typical breakfast now is a home made smoothie with papaya, strawberries, celery, 1/2 of a tomato, banana, ice and sweetened with a little maple syrup. then a large bowl of oatmeal.  lunch is usually fish and that usually salmon.  try to work out at least 1/2 hour every day.  I'm 50 this year and I believe I am as fit as when I was 30.  It's worth the initial hassles especially when you consider the alternative
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Toad on May 28, 2006, 05:30:03 PM
LP,

Have you tried the CardioTea with Policosanol and/or the the CardioSterol from the same folks that make the CardioTabs? CardioSterol has the same active ingredient as the TakeControl and Benecol margarines that lower cholesterol 7-10%. CardioTea's active ingredient is the policosanol, good for maybe another 10%.

Sounds like you're doing the psyillium fiber.

CardioTabs don't do much to lower cholesterol; they're more of a "heart healthy" vitamin, lowering homocystine and such.

Same with the Omega Fatty Acids like fish oil. They have never been shown to lower cholesterol but there are studies (Lyon) that show they dramatically lower the risk of an actual heart attack.

The last resort is to just eat no fat/no cholesterol for a while and see how your numbers react.

I mean NO fat and NO cholesterol for maybe 3 months. It can be done, ask me how I know. ;)
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Simaril on May 28, 2006, 06:10:25 PM
Had some folks get success with "chinese red rice extract" -- though it apparently works the same way as statins, and if your body's sensitive might have similar side effects.

The statin in Vytorin is Zocor...so dont let anybody get you to try that or the genereic (July) simvistatin. Other statins may not cause the same side effects in you, so you may not have to give up yet...and there's no dowbt that statins are the most effective way to drop cholesterol, and are flat out proven to save lives.

Other options...niacin (extended release, do not use immediate release...and take with a baby aspirin to cut down flushing); there is a prescription Omega 3 now, with MUCH higher effectiveness than the lower purity OTCs; newer resins like Tricor; and the other active ingredient in Vytorin, Zetia (which cuts down on absorption of chol and helps best in conjunction with another med -- but DOES NOT cause ANY achiness).
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 28, 2006, 06:58:34 PM
Did that Toad.  Only cholesterol intake I have is the smidge from the Carnation Coffee Creamer.  I have to have SOME flavor in my java!

Doc called back, wants me to try Crestor. Apparently thats the newest one and from what Im reading on my searches, has the fewest side effects, if any.

See the diet isnt the problem.  I wrote out what Im taking in over a 5 day span and got high kudos/praise from the Dr.  Lots of Omega 3s, lots of veggies...brocoli, baby spinach, carrots, red/green peppers...eating an apple a day, a banana with breakfast (bran/oat cereal).

I honestly think Im on the right track, Ive lost weight and am aiming for 180.  The body mass index thing says for someone 5'10 I should be 173.5.  I'm 185 now.  Its within striking range.

I see the Doc Tuesday to hand in those unused Vytorin samples and chat about the Crestor.  I think with my genetics (French/Canadien), some sort of medication will be required to keep the LDL down to the better levels.  I'd also like to re-test again this week and see if my results weren't off the wall cuz i chowed on peanuts and Coors light 8 hours before the blood test  :)   My nurse-friend told me that alcohol the night before would crank my results.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Toad on May 28, 2006, 07:06:18 PM
I thought you never gave the CardioTea or CardioSterol a good test? Am I wrong here?

There have been concerns raised about Crestor and kidney damage. You can google it up yourself. Might be nothing but.... might be something.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 28, 2006, 07:07:32 PM
Check my edit, I hit Submit too soon

Im using a different sterol supplement.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Toad on May 28, 2006, 07:08:44 PM
I thought you never gave the CardioTea or CardioSterol a good test? Am I wrong here?

There have been concerns raised about Crestor and kidney damage. You can google it up yourself. Might be nothing but.... might be something.

I've also had some friends try the rice extract with success. I haven't tried it yet.

As for the niacin, it is better at raising good cholesterol than lowering bad cholesterol. That's not a bad thing, as it will improve your ratio. But if you're looking for a significant drop in LDL percentagewise, it may not be the answer.

I take Slo-Niacin, a non-prescription item available at Sam's Club. I've had good results raising my HDL about 5-7 points which is very good for me.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Toad on May 28, 2006, 07:12:42 PM
What are you using for the sterol? I may want to try it!

The Policosanol is different from the sterol though. A German study just said it had no effect. The guys  in Cardiovascular Consultants, managers of the Mid America Heart Institute of Saint Luke's Hospital of Kansas City think otherwise. MAHI/St. Luke's is pretty highly regarded.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 28, 2006, 07:18:17 PM
This (http://www.chattem.com/whatsnew/CardioAssist.asp)

I've also started taking a Garlique a day too.  Doctor says she has seen garlic use go both ways....to some improvement to doing nothing.  The science is both ways.  This site is a great reference (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=60)
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 28, 2006, 07:20:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad


There have been concerns raised about Crestor and kidney damage. You can google it up yourself. Might be nothing but.... might be something.



I've researched that too (http://www.crestorfacts.com/sideeffects.aspx)

:)

Man I hate comparing cholesterol lowering sites.  I miss my 20s, when the biggest curiousity was "I wonder if her breasts are real"  lol
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: lasersailor184 on May 28, 2006, 07:26:34 PM
You shouldn't worry about it so much.

Except for the two extremes (extreme obesity and extreme anorexia), how you eat and exercise ***WILL NOT DETERMINE HOW LONG YOU LIVE.***  


A recent study compared two groups together.  One group was a health nut group, lots of exercise, healthy eating, healthy medicines, so on and so forth...  

The other group acted normally.  Ate what they wanted, exercised occasionally.



After 10 years both groups had had the same amount of health problems, deaths due to health and other health problems.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Toad on May 28, 2006, 07:29:59 PM
Price is about the same and it does have a little bit of niacin in it. Ought to do the job.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 28, 2006, 08:35:10 PM
I hear ya, Laser.  I know more people who've been health freaks, avid runners and the sort.....who've just dropped dead one day from odd defects (burst aorta) or car wreck.

But, at 36, I'd rather get this under wraps early on versus sticking my head in the sand and hoping it just goes away.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: lasersailor184 on May 29, 2006, 09:25:32 AM
It's not that it will or won't go away.  It's that what you do really does not affect when you'll die.

For example, regardless of life styles and accidents, men in my mom's family have the bad habit of dropping dead at 81-82 years old.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Yeager on May 29, 2006, 12:50:56 PM
one BJ a day makes life worth living......
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: rpm on May 29, 2006, 02:20:22 PM
I'm in the same boat LePaul. My cholesterol is over 600, has been since I was in my 20's. So high in fact that it can't be accurately charted. I was on Lipitor, then Crestor with no noticable difference in my levels. The only thing it did was raise my risk of heart attack and liver disease.

I eat relatively healthy foods and I'm not overweight, my liver just cranks out cholesterol.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Sandman on May 29, 2006, 02:25:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184

For example, regardless of life styles and accidents, men in my mom's family have the bad habit of dropping dead at 81-82 years old.


That's not a bad run.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Sparks on May 29, 2006, 03:41:57 PM
LePaul, I don't know my levels but i'm sure they aren't good but I do take Hofels "One a day" Cardiomax. It's a high concentrate garlic supplement so no side affects but it is know to reduce cholesterol. Even if it doesn't it certainly helps your immune system. It's not easy to find but I think it's better than the others. As long as you don't have a warm drink after you don't know you've had it.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: scottydawg on May 29, 2006, 05:47:34 PM
How ever did the human race survive before doctors and their incessant drug-dealing.  Nowadays they're just shills for the pharmaceutical companies.


Just like the crack dealer down the block, the first one's free (samples?).
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 29, 2006, 09:38:19 PM
Sparks,

On Lipitor, i was bouncing around between 138 and 178.  Previously, I was 285, 220, 240, 207...this last test I scored a 260.  I want to retest because the night before I chowed on tons of fresh salt-roasted peanuts (shell on), beer and then tested 9 hours later.  Opps!  LOL

Im going to ask the Doc tomorrow because Im just certain my levels are low 200s and want a chance to do a good fast and prove it  :)

rpm.....600?  OMG.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: BTW on May 29, 2006, 09:55:20 PM
My stupid mind works this way. Its not what most that is best - its what best that is best. That means a 20 year life could be better than an 80 or 90 year life.
Was Mattie Stepanek's life inferior to a Ken Lay, or Castro?

Do what you want, but we aint getting out of here alive and I'm not spending my time here as a lab rat. Living to 80 years old is NOT a guaranteed blessing. It could be, but so could a shorter life. If you're into any type of statins you've staked your interest in an 80-85 year material world. To me, that's frivolous in the context of eternity.

JMO of course- hope it aint preachy.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 30, 2006, 10:08:13 AM
Sounds like you're ignoring modern medicine, dude.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: BTW on May 30, 2006, 11:01:28 AM
I was drinking, so a little bit of a drama queen there. But I am, to some degree, a fatalist. No matter what you do, you're still gonna die and I doubt you'll be any happier about it at 80 than you are at 60. But if the diet and exercise improve your quality of life and is not an all consuming regiment, I'd go for it.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: lasersailor184 on May 30, 2006, 11:04:30 AM
"All those health nuts are crazy.  One day they'll be sitting on a hospital bed dying of nothing at all."
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: FiLtH on May 30, 2006, 05:08:43 PM
LePaul Im on Lipitor 10mg. I have an appointment for blood test this week. I dont seem to have any effects. Unless laziness counts.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Toad on May 30, 2006, 05:43:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BTW
No matter what you do, you're still gonna die and I doubt you'll be any happier about it at 80 than you are at 60.  


No but if you live well, you will have had 20 more years of enjoyment to reflect upon as the light dims out.

But, you wanna bail at 60, be my guest. I'm drinking from the cup until they throw me out forcibly. ;)
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 30, 2006, 05:58:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
LePaul Im on Lipitor 10mg. I have an appointment for blood test this week. I dont seem to have any effects. Unless laziness counts.


I did OK on 10mg.  Be wary when they want you to up to 20mg.  

Also, my Lipitor side effects crept up on me, about 9 months later is when I was really feeling it.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Toad on May 30, 2006, 06:16:35 PM
Yeah, I think it's cumulative. I have switched three times, Lipitor, Zocor, now Pravachol.

Each time my legs just kept getting more and more tired and sore as time went by. Switch and all is good..until the legs start getting tired.  ;)
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: LePaul on May 30, 2006, 06:51:35 PM
Its interesting you mention tired legs.  Coworker here had all his aches and pains in his legs a few weeks into Lipitor.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Scatcat on May 30, 2006, 11:06:33 PM
niacin is not a bad suggestion if you fail statin therapy. I have seen good success with the niacin. Long acting niacin is best to limit the flushing effects.

BTW, there is nothing you take into your body that doesnt have potential risks including so called natural treatments. The only thing that is  guaranteed is that we'll all assume room temperature someday ;)
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Scherf on May 30, 2006, 11:17:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
one BJ a day makes life worth living......


Can't get a prescription for them, no matter how much I try.
Title: Statins suck!
Post by: Edbert1 on May 31, 2006, 07:29:52 AM
When I turned 40 I had the full workup done, my combined cholesterol was 156. The MD put me on prescription drugs to RAISE it, mainly since the ratio was off by 2 points. The vitamins are Niacin, in mega-dose, with time release. I am supposed to take two of the little bastids every night, the label says it may cause "flushing". Well if I even take 1/2 of a pill I wake up at night with my skin on freaking FIRE! It feels like hundreds of needles, I'm looking for smoke, or even blood.


I stopped after two weeks, when I got it checked again a year later I was at 164 with the ratio within tolerance. I'm just saying unless your numbers are WAY high I'd refuse to take the drugs. The medical industry is going nuts with prescriptions. There are about five prescriptions per person in the US, that is every man/woman/child. They'll give you a script if you are 220 and they'll give you another if you are 160. Just to make sure we all donate a proper portion of our paychecks to the pharmaceutical lobby.