Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sharp8th on May 29, 2006, 03:01:39 PM
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i was flying in my zero say a spit9 and wanted to fight he made the frist move i followed and he turned. he out truned my zero and killed me i think that is bull**** because when i fight a zero in a spit9 he hgets me i never out trun him
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with good angles and throttle management, it can be done:aok
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he didnt have flaps or his speed down we where going 250 around in a cercle
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learn how to fight
spits flaps are not design to use in dogfight
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sorry Ramzey, thats maybe the truth, but terrible advice. a spitfire needs flaps to fight a zeke.
sharp, you just got beaten at 'dogfighting' by a better pilot, all things equal in skill the zeke will win 90%.
I once challenged morpheus to a zero vs spit16 fight, as i had beaten the zekes in the spixteen many times. being a better pilot than me, he kicked my arse, using the zeke properly.
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if you have it filmed we might be able to tell you what went wrong.
Simply put there are ways to increase turn radius for a short while so he can shoot you down. As long as the plane is way above his stall speed the pilot has a lot of options to cut off the angle and get a killing shot.
While A6M has a tighter turn radius it can still be shot down.
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Anything is possible if pilots of different skill levels are fighting against each other. Sometimes I outturn Spits in my 190D, and sometimes I stumble upon vets capable of giving me a thrashing in their lower-E P40Eīs
Btw, have you filmed the engagement? It would be much easier to tell what happened, īcause "outturned" is a bit vague. For example an enemy some several hundred yards away donīt necessarily needs to turn as hard as you to be able to shoot at you for a short time
Edit:
Seems that Schutt and Lusche had the same thing in mind at the same time :D
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Originally posted by sharp8th
i was flying in my zero say a spit9 and wanted to fight he made the frist move i followed and he turned. he out truned my zero and killed me i think that is bull**** because when i fight a zero in a spit9 he hgets me i never out trun him
you said it right there ...^^^ he made the 1st move .The spit had the adv at that point .
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The best turning performance in the world will not always overcome poor maneuver choices by the pilot. Escpecially if you are up against someone who is choosing and executing flawless air combat maneuvers to gain a shooting angle.
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who was driving the spit?
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ANGLES!! In any plane that is often the determining factor.
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boozer i think i cant rember
P.S. i think im going crazy :noid
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Originally posted by sharp8th
he didnt have flaps or his speed down we where going 250 around in a cercle
Isn't this the key phrase here? At what point were you slow enough for the turning circle of the Zeke to make the difference?
Shot down lots of zekes in the old 38G while the speed is still up there. IF we get to slow, I know I'm in trouble.
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Originally posted by sharp8th
boozer i think i cant rember
P.S. i think im going crazy :noid
Well if it was boozer he is a very capable veteran of flight sims.
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At 250 MPH both planes are limited to a 6 G turn. That means neither can turn tighter than the other. My guess is the Spit chopped throttle, lowering his speed and turning tighter than you.
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Originally posted by MOSQ
At 250 MPH both planes are limited to a 6 G turn. That means neither can turn tighter than the other. My guess is the Spit chopped throttle, lowering his speed and turning tighter than you.
exactly:aok
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What the hell were you doing keeping your speed up in that turn? When you turn at a high speed in the Zero, cut the throttle immediately.
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It can be done. Ive out moved spit 16s and la7s in my 38 on the deck.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Isn't this the key phrase here? At what point were you slow enough for the turning circle of the Zeke to make the difference?
Shot down lots of zekes in the old 38G while the speed is still up there. IF we get to slow, I know I'm in trouble.
Yeah you and MOSQ are both right. At 250, that zeke is going way to fast to turn as tightly as you remember. The way you win that fight is to get him slow, you get him slow, and he's dead. Now you know for next time. :aok
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jeez at 300mph in a zeke your already loseing a wing:lol :D . Spit probalby chopped throttale and put full elevators in and got a quick snapshot on you. Remember zeke go boom with 1 20mm.(Usually)
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Originally posted by sharp8th
he didnt have flaps or his speed down we where going 250 around in a cercle
that's why he killed you. you faught his fight.
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Originally posted by SAS_KID
jeez at 300mph in a zeke your already loseing a wing:lol :D . Spit probalby chopped throttale and put full elevators in and got a quick snapshot on you. Remember zeke go boom with 1 20mm.(Usually)
Hardly. I have killed a Spitfire Mk IX in an A6M5b while doing nearly 425mph. 'Course I could barely manuever, but I got him. Keep in mind that even the A6M2 can break 300mph in level flight, so 300mph is well below the speed at which the A6M will lose parts. As to durability, it depends on where you hit. If you don't hit the pilot or fuel system, the A6M is just as tough as any other fighter of that size.
Sharp8th,
You must get the Zero slow in order to out turn a Spitfire. The A6M has very heavy controls at higher speeds. The Spitfire's ailerons get heavy, hurting its roll rate, but the Spitfire's elevators do not suffer at all and it can pull very tight even at high speeds.
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Damn! Almost got called a cheater *sigh*, I'll have to try harder.
Sharp, if I could remeber the fight I'd explain what happened. I suspect you fell for a high yo-yo rollover after a spiral climb, because I do that a lot......but I don't remember it.
Boozer
*hic*
CO 4thFG
http://www.4thFG.org
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I've outflown a Zeke in a B17 and I didnt even have to turn!
-Lefty
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A certain plane doesnt automatically kill another plane easily. It depends who is flying it.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
A certain plane doesnt automatically kill another plane easily. It depends who is flying it.
Exactly.
For example, when Chuck Norris takes his Piper Cub up against a wing of Su-27s, the jet pilots will often bail from sheer terror.
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dunno from the little you described, but if he made a lead turn on the initial merge and you didn't start your turn until after the merge, he's definitely going to a head start on the angles game, regardless of plane type.
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I can take a few turns with a newb-flown zeke in a K4... has nothing to do with the plane, everything to do with the pilot.
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i fly the zeke alot,
If you are fighting a zeke keep it above 250 and he doesnt have an advantage. if ytou get inb trouble you will still have power to accelerate and get some breathing room. Zekes don't pick up that last 50 mph very fast, use that to your advantage. If the zeke gets you slowed down to below 200 ( or he's below 200 and within 600) you are a dead duck. AT 175 the zekes can start rolling in his flaps at this point it is the tightest turner in the game.
Love the zeke but one 20 mm in any part of the plane and you lose that part period. The fuel tanks are suseptible to lighter rounds than the 20's.
I am not complaining i think it's a fair trade and you sure won't HO with anybody.
IMHO
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Do I smell stall limmiter turned on?
I doubt a Zekke with stall limmiter will out turn a Spit9...
Tex
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Originally posted by Lusche
Anything is possible if pilots of different skill levels are fighting against each other. Sometimes I outturn Spits in my 190D, and sometimes I stumble upon vets capable of giving me a thrashing in their lower-E P40Eīs
and in a nutshell.
There ya have it to the exact
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
and in a nutshell.
There ya have it to the exact
Yep. Couldn't have said it any better myself.
For anyone that hasn't read it and is looking to quickly and seriously educate themselves in Basic Flight Maneuvers and Air Combat Maneuvering (both critical to success in every air battle), you need to read this book:
"Fighter Combat Tactics and Manuvering" by Robert L. Shaw.
Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0870210599/sr=8-1/qid=1149210152/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-6562138-3926332?%5Fencoding=UTF8
This is (in my opinion) still the best textbook you can get on ACM and offensive/defensive air combat tactics.
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Sharp the reason why u got outturned is becuz u suck! lmao