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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Neubob on May 29, 2006, 10:25:55 PM

Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Neubob on May 29, 2006, 10:25:55 PM
Divorce.

Married for such a short time, and it crumbles into ruins before my eyes... Truth be told, it was pretty much hell from day one, but we had our hopes. Hopes that one day, like the weather, things would just change for the better.

Now, the person that was once the closest, dearest in my life, resorts to sending me evil emails and voice mails, and all I can do to keep up is respond with my own brand of hatred. Amazing how that works. I would have stood in front of a speeding truck for her just a little while back, now it seems, that nobody's ever hated me more than she.

How does this happen?

I married her because she was beautiful, smart, clever and, against all odds, understood me. Today, we exchange only the most horrendous insults imagineable, using the weaknesses we've learned about to make the words sting as much as humanly possible. She's 22, I'm 29. Yet we both feel old, tired... withered.

In the course of my life, I've lost close ones. The very woman that introduced us, perhaps my closest family member, passed on last august. Yet this horrible bitterness outclasses everything that came before it.

I still love her. Maybe even more than ever. But the anger and the hatred just won't stop.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Sandman on May 29, 2006, 10:30:12 PM
Once you've let the insult genie out of the bottle it's difficult to put it back.

My only advice is for your next attempt. Don't say anything hurtful just for the sake of being hurtful. You can't take those words back.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: NattyIced on May 29, 2006, 10:56:46 PM
See Rule #2
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Arlo on May 29, 2006, 11:01:12 PM
Aye, Sandie. I'm still in recovery mode from over two years back. And when there's kids ....

Nuebob .... good luck, man. Bout the best I can do without coming off trite.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Sandman on May 29, 2006, 11:05:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NattyIced
See Rule #2


Huh? :confused:
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Neubob on May 29, 2006, 11:25:36 PM
Look, fellas. I did have a brief treist with Orlick. But that was just good fun....



Fact is, this isn't fun anymore, and as much as I hope I amuzed you back then, this isn't just more of the same.

I've long considered myself a man. Still, right now, I feel like a child. Hurt and weak. To boot, I've been hurt and weakened by a little girl, just 112 lbs, that's 7 years my junior.

Perhaps this is not the right place to discuss this. I fired my shrink a long time ago, however, and figured that normal humans would be the best to share this with.

The alcohol seems to help a little. then again, how long witll  that last??

The only thing I really wanted is some words from some of you guys that have gone through this before. It's my first.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: rpm on May 29, 2006, 11:36:31 PM
Bah! Nothing gets you over the last one better than the next one!
Quit wallowing in the past and move forward. I've been married 3 times and that's best advice I can give you.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Toad on May 29, 2006, 11:38:44 PM
Take this or leave this but I read some of Wayne Dyer's books and it made a lot of sense to me. It has helped in overcoming some pretty large obstacles that appeared in the not too distant past.

For example, I think this quote applies to situations like yours:

Quote
Conflict cannot survive without your participation.


and this one:

Quote
The components of anxiety, stress, fear, and anger do not exist independently of you in the world. They simply do not exist in the physical world, even though we talk about them as if they do.


Sound pretty simplistic and it is. We are the ones who make our lives complicated.

Anyway, that's my .02. Dyer's approach helped me; I hope that it will help you.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Nash on May 29, 2006, 11:43:15 PM
^ truth.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Neubob on May 30, 2006, 12:17:02 AM
I understand all the philosophy, at least in theory.

Thing is, this is all pretty raw and fresh. Yes, it is true that I am probably at the center of all the problems. Nevertheless, I believe that within every human being, the ability to mourn is stored inside the same general region of the brain. When this region is being used, whether for the purpose of dealing with a dead cat or a dead mother(hope I don't offend), the region is used 100%. Right now, my region is occupied with a dead marriage. Yes, it seems trite and stupid to many of you guys, but it's all I have at the moment. It hurts like a bastard. It hurts like a bastard that just keeps and keeps on beating on me.

I respect you guys a ton, but, being only a day or so old, this whole concept is a bit hard to stomach. That is all.

And Toad, to take yor advice... I try to not participate. Problem is, it's just too easy to get sucked in again. Fresh memories, things like that. I'm weak, I suppose. But, at the same time, this will pass. I just hope that this will remain as a document so that in the future, similar mistakes will be avoided.

Again, I thank all you guys.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Toad on May 30, 2006, 12:25:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
It hurts like a bastard. It hurts like a bastard that just keeps and keeps on beating on me.
[/b]

Of course it does. However, it can only do so.... as long as you let it.

Remember "Time heals all wounds"? It does. However, the AMOUNT of time required depends on the individual.

Quote
I respect you guys a ton, but, being only a day or so old, this whole concept is a bit hard to stomach. That is all.


You can feel bad and beat yourself up and scream "why me" all you like.

I did. I suspect we all do sooner or later over something.

The turnaround comes when you finally say "Enough of this. I will seize the day and wring every drop of pleasure from it that I can. And I will do the same tomorrow. And tomorrow. And tomorrow."

Some folks, of course, never do that. I imagine they descend into an unending personal hell.

First, forgive yourself. May take a while.

Then realize that time is all you have and you're wasting it by wallowing in dispair/grief/guilt/whatever.

Here's another free one. It helped me too but you have to accept the hand it holds out to you.

Desiderata (http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/desiderata.html)

The last part helped the most:

Quote
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: J_A_B on May 30, 2006, 12:29:35 AM
"I married her because she was beautiful, smart, clever and, against all odds, understood me."


I don't see "because we were great friends" in there.  

If it was "hell" from day 1, it's safe to assume it was probably bad before you signed the paperwork, in which case your mistake was getting married at all.  People make mistakes.  Smart people don't repeat their mistakes.  Be smart.

Don't send E-mails or return nasty phonecalls.  That stuff comes back to haunt you in court.



*ALL* couples argue.  Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.  If you want to maintain a relationship, you and your spouse MUST a) accept that arguments WILL happen, and b) be willing to let them happen and not hold a grudge.  If you let issues simmer, they'll just gradually consume the relationship.


J_A_B
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: FiLtH on May 30, 2006, 12:36:29 AM
She is too young. Dont marry any woman under 30.
20 is the new 9.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: J_A_B on May 30, 2006, 12:41:03 AM
Heh FiLtH.  I knew my wifey when we were kids and she was like 20 when we finally made it official.

I would say don't marry someone you haven't known for a good while.


J_A_B
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: FUNKED1 on May 30, 2006, 12:56:55 AM
http://nomarriage.com/
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Saintaw on May 30, 2006, 12:57:21 AM
Been divorced for 6 years now... I am not looking back, as I enjoy it much better as it is today. Didn't excahnge any nasty emails... but we're still in court over a house in UK.

Stating how I feel about it probably would get me banned :D
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: moot on May 30, 2006, 03:10:50 AM
"The most beautiful of follies is not to love but to allow [another] to love him/herself."

"I am responsible for what I feel."

IMO spending your resources on anything but yourself is a waste of time.. No one else but you will fulfill your purpose/goals/interests/dreams/etc.  
Focusing on nothing but your own success will ensure your satisfaction, as well as that of any running mate that you're the best partner you can be, that you are the best you can offer.. win-win.
Title: Re: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Nilsen on May 30, 2006, 03:17:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Hopes that one day, like the weather, things would just change for the better.


You have to make it change. Cant sit around waiting for it to happen all by itself.

It can be hard work, but if it is too easy something is prolly wrong somewere. One has to shake things up abit every now and then, and keep that finger up in the air to feel what way the wind is blowing.

Have only been married for less than a year, but we have lived together for over 10. Nothing changes after you get married, only your mindset if you let it. Alot easyer to get too relaxed after you put that ring on, but you have to pay attention.

You are young so see this as a great learning experience and move on. :)
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: NattyIced on May 30, 2006, 07:14:43 AM
See Rule #2
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Maverick on May 30, 2006, 08:16:56 AM
Neubob,

You have gotten some good advice here. Another important thing is to actually realize, no matter how necessary the divorce is, no matter how bad the marriage was, you WILL be hurt while it ends. You had hopes and they are hard to accept as gone forever.

You can and should decide to have a grieving period and then close it. It is natural to grieve for your loss, just don't make a career about it. Set a period of time then a goal to get over it at the end of that time. Don't excpect it to be done at that time but work at it as your goal.

Do not let yourself be alone all the time either. Get out, visit friends, make friends, DO stuff.

If you have kids, understand that as long as they are minors you WILL have to have some kind of contact with their mother. Limit the contact and make it formal. Insist through your lawyer she do the same. Do NOT respond to hurtfull e-mail, at all. If you have to, ask your lawyer how best to handle dealing with your wife and then follow the advice. Get some separation between yourselves.

Finally keep in mind that it DOES get better. Don't wallow in the now, concentrate on the future.

VERY IMPORTANT  DO NOT ALLOW THE CONFLICT TO COLOR THE RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR KIDS. DO NOT USE THE KIDS AS A WEAPON AGAINST THE SPOUSE!!!! The kids see more and realize more than you can believe. They will spot the tactic for the attempt to hurt the other parent and they WILL resent it. Just love and support them as best you can.

Good luck and hang in there. Life happens and it moves on.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: lazs2 on May 30, 2006, 08:16:56 AM
It is hard to believe at this point I am sure but... soon enough... you will be relieved that she is not around.... you will be really glad when she finds someone else because then she won't bother you so much.

I am not so sure that the self help books make much sense in the real world....  I have had lots of conflict and anxiety continue indepenent to me in my life at times regardless of my participation.

drinking/drugs will make things worse.  They will prolong the time it takes to get over the pain.

be glad you had no children by her because once you realize how lucky you are to be rid of her.... it is over.  With children involved it is never over.  I have two ex wifes that I had children with..  I am comfortable around them but would just as soon they were out of my life for the most part.

In any case... a person can't sustain the levels of pain you are probly going through right now for long....  really... a year...18 months is tops for the real pain.... you might pick at the scab and get it to drag out a little longer or... anesthitize yourself and the time spent out won't count but...  If you can look at the situation with some perspective.... the pain dulls by a year and mostly goes away in two...  glad it happened might take 3.  

At 29 tho... this is just part of the much needed rollercoaster that moves you on to the next level of understanding yourself.

lazs
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Curval on May 30, 2006, 08:30:36 AM
I had a girl up and leave after living together about 6 years.  I was freaking devastated.  We weren't married but I'm pretty sure I can relate to what you are going through.

Forget the shrinks.  They aren't going to tell you anything you don't already know.

I hate to say it, but time is the only healer here...and its going to SUCK for a while.

BUT...in 5, 10, 15 years from now you will probably admit it was for the best.

Hell, I thought my life was essentially "over".  Then I met the girl I ended up marrying...put her through "hell" myself because I was still boo-hooing over the other girl.  It took 2 years for me to realise I was much better off without the one who left.

3 great kids and 7 years of marriage later and I feel like I am the luckiest guy in the world.

PM me if you want someone to talk to.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Scherf on May 30, 2006, 08:32:05 AM
I'm sorry to read your post Neubob.

Mine got me to a point where I felt that one of the four options left open actually involved me being dead - and that's when I decided the situation which was effed up, not me personally. (We're still married, for what it's worth.)

Toad's about right - she's getting you to mess with yourself, and you don't have to do it.

Record the phone calls, save the emails, but DON'T take the bait. It's taking the bait that makes you feel the worst, and you know it. Grotesque as it is, communicate with her through a third party if that's what it comes to. There are worse ways to be.

By all means have a drink or two - with friends, on a sunny afternoon. But nota bene, the bottle makes it all go away only for a limited time. All too soon you can be reaching for the bottle to make the bottle go away.

So, anyway, take it for what it's worth. Breathe in, breathe out.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: midnight Target on May 30, 2006, 08:37:33 AM
The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. Hate implies feeling. There is a cure for this pain, it ain't swift but it is a sure thing.... time.





I am such a ****ing hippie.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Neubob on May 30, 2006, 01:25:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
She is too young. Dont marry any woman under 30.
20 is the new 9.


:D
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: DiabloTX on May 30, 2006, 01:38:13 PM
Well, for what it's worth, I am in the middle of a divorce myself.  We've been separated since last Oct and the first 2 months were pure hell for me.  She basically left me for another guy.  Now, all these months later, she realised what a mistake it was and is trying to get back together with me.  I have no desire to rejoin our union, we made our vows 12 years ago, but it sure as hell sucks that now she wants to do that after I tried to keep the marriage together for those 2 months.  I'd just as soon be friends, carry on with our lives, and be happy.  

Women are truly the most frustrating and fascninating mystery of them all.  

Thankfully I have 2 female friends that keep me company.  One's a bartender that keeps my glass filled and the other,....well the other is "there for me".  

Take the good with the bad and just hang in there.   It'll get better.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Slash27 on May 30, 2006, 02:07:56 PM
Sorry about your situation there Bob. As you can see you're not alone. Hang tough life will get good again. Just don't become too bitter and jaded over it. You could end up like me. Eight years after my last relationship and I still have no desire to risk getting trampled on again.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on May 30, 2006, 02:54:47 PM
Been there man.  I think the bitterness is the worst part.  My first marriage was a mistake from day 1 and we both knew it.  But we didnt know what else to do so we stayed together and made each other miserable.  5 years we did that, and finally had to call it quits.  It was rough becuase my son was only 4 at the time and just the look on his face when I was leaving was enough to make me want to stay.  Leaving him behind killed something in me that never came back.  But I knew it was better for him to grow up with 2 parents who didnt live together than to grow up with 2 parents fighting all the time.  She remarried, she's happy, he's a good kid.  I was a screwup as a father anyway, I probably did him more of a favor than I realized.  

Then came #2.  Like you, it was everything I thought I wanted, everything everybody always says a relationship is supposed to be.  She had issues, she had 2 kids from her previous marriage, my parents hated her with a passion (and thats saying something, let me tell you).  Matter of fact, I cant recall too many people that liked her.  I was hooked though.  We were together for about 2 years, then we got married.  11 months later I was moving out.  She wanted more kids, I didnt.  She wanted more freedom (read here, she wanted to sleep with whoever she chose to).  I can handle "something happened", I cant handle it when guys who are supposed to be friends are boinkin my wife.  Went nuts, beat the crap out of two of them, almost ran over another one ............ bitterness.  Not rage, just bitter.  It was supposed to be my chance to fix things, to make my life right, to have a real relationship.  Instead it was more pain.  Bitterness.  Oh it was deep too.  Lots of alcohol in there.  Pot.  Fights.  Bars.  More fights.  lol  You get the picture.  

After a couple of years and a couple more screwed up relationships, I finally figured it out.  Why I was so messed up.  I expected somebody else to fix my problems.  I put all my hopes on having that relationship set me right with the world and make up for my mistakes in the first one.  IT DONT WORK THAT WAY.  You either have to come to terms with who and what you are, or you have to fix it on your own.  You have to rely on yourself to be who you want to be, you cant define yourself by your relationship.  I was feeling sorry for myself because somebody else let me down.  Everyone has their own goals and dreams, you cant rely on them to make yours come true.  Make yourself into the person you want to be, make no apologies for who you are or what you are, and when you find someone who accepts that and still enjoys hanging out with you and doing stuff with you, then you've found someone you can build something with.  

Dont go into a relationship expecting change.  You'll get it alright, but never in the ways you expect.  If you go in expecting someone else to change to suit you, or them expecting you to change to suit them, its never going to work.  When you can both go in as individuals, and come out the other side still the same individuals and still liking each other, you've got something.  

Preaching mode off.  :)  I really wish you good luck getting on with your life.  Its difficult, but it will happen.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Neubob on May 30, 2006, 05:39:28 PM
Thanks again, fellas.

Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: wrag on May 30, 2006, 06:47:57 PM
Been through 2 marriages and 2 live ins.

Perhaps I've been fortunate.  There was no mean emails (didn't have em then I guess, or didn't use em much) or mean voice mails. (didn't have the voice mails either).

Didn't really have the terrible screaming stuff so much.

Always tried to talk things out without all the name calling etc....

Remember when my parents split.  Remember how they both tried to get me to hate the other.

Read all the books, watched all the videos, etc.... of how to make a marriage work.  Hasn't worked so far.

Just tired now.

Several within this thread have expressed AVOID the name calling, saying bad stuff about, thing!!!!!  It WILL come back to hurt you later!

Don't play that game!

So many get into relationships with the belief that everything will be wonderful.  That everything will workout.  All you gotta do is be.

Sadly that is, in nearly every case, NOT the truth.

Hear it over and over from some female as to how this guy will be perfect if she can change this or that about him.  It usually then proceeds to something else needing changing.

Heard the same from some males.

Sadly marriage and or relationships no longer have the same meaning they used to have.  Now, it SEEMS, be it the media or whatever, relationships are more about control and manipulation of the other then about having a help mate.  It now SEEMS to be more about liberation then anything else.

It will take time.  It will take self-examination as well.  But don't beat yourself up over it!

You have to be who you are.  Try to find someone that will accept you for that.  AND learn to let them be who they are.

Changing one another to make things BETTER? just doesn't work!
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Neubob on May 31, 2006, 05:03:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I can handle "something happened", I cant handle it when guys who are supposed to be friends are boinkin my wife.  


You're a much, much bigger man than I. I couldn't even handle her talking on the phone or IM with her exes. Utterly irrational jealousy. Then, the more I did it, the more she started doing it. Before I knew it, I was getting on her about her past, purely immature indescrections with men, started calling her names. Never gave her credit for being the person she had become. Always saw the person she'd been long before we'd met. Amazingly, despite my insanity, she was always quick to forgive me. Always quick to to hug me and calm me down. She was a good girl. A little harsh at times, overbearing, over-sensitive and oddly particular, but a good girl. The more I think about it, the more I have to face the fact that I never even tried to be a friend to her. I'll never forgive myself.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Toad on May 31, 2006, 08:01:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
I'll never forgive myself.


But this, amigo, is the first thing you must do before you can move on.

You made a mistake. We all make mistakes. Big ones and little ones.

It doesn't have to mean you ruined your life; you can admit it, learn from it and move on and forward.

Or you can dwell on it and eat your liver for as long as YOU like.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Curval on May 31, 2006, 08:24:05 AM
Neubob,

Just a quick word on your last post:

One thing that I have ALWAYS done whenever I had a nasty breakup was to romanticise the relationship that had ended.  I always remembered the good and the bad stuff always seemed to be my fault after-the-fact.

Thoughts like that are dangerous because they end up allowing some serious depression to creep in.

Don't over-analyze and try not to romanticise.  It's really easy to give this advice but I do appreciate how difficult it is to actually do.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: lazs2 on May 31, 2006, 08:30:55 AM
I am not very good at realationships but am very experianced at ending them.  

When you hear her car drive up and your gut churns because you were doing something you like and she doesn't.... It's time to get out..  There is allways some feeling of relief when a relationship ends.  

never go right from one relationship to another.

Be honest from the start with the new one so you don't have to live the same old lies again with the new one..

enjoy life.  Do some things that you couldn't do when in a relationship.

Don't get a new one based on if your friends will approve or not..

try to not get one that lives too close to you.... 30-60 miles away is ideal.

lazs
Title: carrying on from where Lazs left off ^
Post by: beet1e on May 31, 2006, 09:53:09 AM
...and never let anyone tell you that Marriage is the kiss of death to a healthy sex life. On the contrary, Marriage can be an excellent tonic for a good sex life. It's only when the two people are married to eachother that it's a problem.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: Eagler on May 31, 2006, 10:01:01 AM
she was 11 when you were 18

enough said, good luck with the next one - make her closer to your own age
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on May 31, 2006, 02:13:42 PM
My friend, I am not a bigger man than anyone.  Except maybe at my waistline.  :)

But seriously, its just that I recognized a loooooong time ago what jealousy can do to you.  I ruined one good relationship that way.  Well, ok it wasnt that good.  Probably better for me than it was for her, but meh.  The thing is, I couldnt stand to see her with ANYONE (read any other man) than me.  Even just talking.  I ruined a perfectly good door putting my fist through it over her.  Cost me 200 bucks to get it replaced too.  

Thats insecurity.  Thats the mind saying "she's talking to him because he's got something you dont".  Bull.  And if she really does think that, and she really does go elsewhere, well it wasnt going to work anyway.  All you can do is give what you've got.  Its totally up to her if its good enough for her or not.  Not one thing you can do about it.  Let go.

I also recognized a long time ago that even when I'm happy in a relationship, I'm still going to see other women and look at them and go "ah man look at that!  What I wouldnt give to .........."  You can fill in the blanks.  We all do it.  Women included.  So logically, you have to assume that temptation can strike at a moment of weakness for anyone, and "chit happens".  I could probably be ok with that.  A one time thing.  Something explainable.  There are lines you cant cross though, places that if you decide to go there, there's no coming back.  

As to this "laying blame" game.  Stop where you are.  That is a slippery slope you are climbing.  Once you let yourself slide to the bottom its darn near impossible to get back up again.  We all make mistakes.  We are all human.  Its fine to say "I made a mistake".  Its not fine to punish yourself over it forever.  Learn from it.  Move on.  Dont forget it, but let it go.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: StSanta on May 31, 2006, 03:09:32 PM
Hang in there dude.

It's worth remembering that the only thing you need and can do to feel better is to have patience and wait.

Relationships failing is the mental equivalent of a very long worst hangover ever You think you're gonna die, that you can't handle anymore. Weak and feeble, there's no light in the horizon. But ya know it's gonna get better.

You're 29, future ahead of you. Millions of people have had this happen before you and while they were as hurt as you are now, they've come through - not without scars, but through it, and the smarter ones among them a whole lot wiser too.

First step is to go from the inside to the outside. Get a perspective. There's a whole lot of things waiting for you to get your thumb out of your ass. Someone very special is walking around having no idea who you are as we speak.

So, arm yourself with patience. When that fails, anger, tears and good pals help.

Then go HUGE. Not big. Huge. It's all waiting for ya.
Title: And just like that, everything changes...
Post by: storch on May 31, 2006, 03:19:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
she was 11 when you were 18

enough said, good luck with the next one - make her closer to your own age
ain't that the truth.