Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hristo on August 28, 2001, 01:34:00 PM
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Hi
My name is Hristo and I am an Il-2 addict. Please let me explain.
I was very cautious, if not sceptical about Il-2. It was a boxed sim, from unknown authors. When Leonid brought up the news 2 years ago, I didn't really expect it to be a 1st class sim.
Only rarely I have watched news about its development. No, I was never a beta tester and I am not a cheeleader (for now).
When the demo came out, I hesitated because of big download. Of course, I tried the 109 first. Fantastic looking cockpit, something we could never get in AH. Metric system at last. Revi gunsight. The 109 cockpit I saw on photos was finally here.
After taking off I tried some aerobatics. What ?! This can't be true - this beast rolls as fast as AH 190. Hmmmmmm, big hmmmmm. Did Oleg mess up the FM ? Did he make a concession to playability. For years I have been flying 109s who simply couldn't or wouldn't roll at higher speeds. What is this ? I trusted to data from Western sources and started to suspect the Il-2 FM. Still, I wanted to play the game for fun.
Fantastic clouds. Flyby sounds with Doppler effect. And gunnery. Oh my God ! Imagine the heresy - someone dared to model different rounds per gun ! In Il-2 you actually fire 3 types of rounds from your MG 151/20. And each of them has a tracer version. Each of the rounds has different effect on impact and different trajectory. 109 has slats finally. They mess up your gunnery when you get too slow and go for a shot. As mentioned by pilots.
The tail wheel. You have to lock it. If you fire guns while plane is parked, the wheel turns 180 degrees while plane goes backwards. Now that is a dedication to detail !
But what about the roll rate ? Do Il-2 planes compress. I was still sceptical about it. There is compression - you can see it by watching stick defelction in cockpit while you move your joystick. There is no magic pull out auto trim. In fact, you only have elevator trim in cockpit.
I went to lok for an explanation for the heretical 109 rollrate. Yes, there were threads on boards and at first time I saw someone mentioning TsAGI reports. Along tiwh NV VVS something (sorry, don't remember the name). Oleg was defending his stand - 109 rollrate is correct, it is modeled by data from Soviet sources. Who to believe ? British tests on 109E and 109G-6/R-6 ? Or two Soviet institutions ? (I heard that they were independant - if test results weren't close to each other, 3rd party would do the tests, while authors of wrong results would be punished. Typical ;)).
Now, with such a dedication do detail - would Oleg do a concession to playability and make a 109 roll like a 190 (according to Western sources) ? He admitted the P-39 rolls twice as fast as it should and that it will be corrected. I'd rather have longer WEP on 109 than improved rollrate, btw. (Right now WEP on 109 overheats your engine in 1 minute and if you don't lay off the throttle, your engine might be damaged to full stop).
The historical aspect. Enough said.
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Give it time, you'll be whining about the LW getting an unfair shake over there too. Some folks are just too predictable. ;)
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Now Rip, was that nice ?
All you can say to my post is that I am simply a whiner ?
And what does your post make you ? A cheerleader perhaps ?
I will say this: Il-2 (unlucky choice of name, btw) beats AH hands down in important aspects as gunnery, realistic cockpits, damage model and graphics. Of FMs I can only speculate.
I believed in AH for so long. My AH bubble stood up against WW2OLbug. But now it has bursted. Il-2 is a better sim. Period.
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It's a wonderful world when you can fly what you like, like what you fly and not worry about what the other guy is flying, isn't it?
Enjoy it! This is REALLY why Gates and Jobs and those guys were working on PC's to begin with. :)
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(Right now WEP on 109 overheats your engine in 1 minute and if you don't lay off the throttle, your engine might be damaged to full stop)
TIP:
Open the radiator flaps with the "R" key, it will cool down the engine quickly at some expense to aircraft performance.
Engine management is something I've seen people ask for in AH and WB but I never thought it would be worth adding to the games.
I've changed my opinion as it forces you to pay attention and fly the planes instead of just firewalling the throttle. It would be a nice feature to have in AH IMO.
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Originally posted by Hristo:
Now Rip, was that nice ?
All you can say to my post is that I am simply a whiner ?
And what does your post make you ? A cheerleader perhaps ?
I will say this: Il-2 (unlucky choice of name, btw) beats AH hands down in important aspects as gunnery, realistic cockpits, damage model and graphics. Of FMs I can only speculate.
I believed in AH for so long. My AH bubble stood up against WW2OLbug. But now it has bursted. Il-2 is a better sim. Period.
Christ, can't an ex-squaddie even see the 'wink wink' smiley at the end of the post? You've grown a wee bit sensitive since you flew under my command, Hristo.
:rolleyes:
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Sorry, I did not get it ;)
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I tried it out again last night with the "open gl" driver , plus tuned the rudder down "alot" and it's much nicer than I first thought .
Nice to hear your take on it , will be following updated reports as the beta progresses .
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WOW, wea...Jihad ! The cowl flaps are a blessing !
Thanks
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Originally posted by Hristo:
WOW, wea...Jihad ! The cowl flaps are a blessing !
Thanks
and:
Now that is a dedication to detail !
Your welcome, try using the F2 key to check out the cowl/radiator flaps in operation. ;)
I've had the beta for awhile and the more I play it the more *little* details I find, heh the pilots head even moves if you put it on auto pilot to watch the dogfight in external view. :cool:
When it goes gold watch out for my Yak-3!
:eek:
[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: jihad ]
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I'd like to point out some things about FM. I'm not going to speak about roll rates - these things can be adjusted quickly, but about feeling of flight and stalls/spins behaviour of the planes. From that point of view Il-2's FM is far better (need some tweaks though) than in WB or AH. It's a completelly new approach to the modelling of the dynamics of flight and IT ROCKS.
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Agreed Apr..
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I've had the beta for awhile and the more I play it the more *little* details I find, heh the pilots head even moves if you put it on auto pilot to watch the dogfight in external view.
I`m not sure if it`s included in the demo,but if so check out the wires moving the rudder and the elevators on the U2 (Po2).That`s really something.
Noticed the trimm stay level on the airelons,the little indicator moving up and down as You retract or lower the gears in the IL-2?(the actual plane in the game)
And the list goes on and on.
Best sim up to date,no doubt.
If it goes MMPOG....god help HTC,and all others in the busisness.
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If I remember right also ailerons in 109 (at least in some models) turned downward few degrees when lowering flaps and gears. Maximum was 11 degrees afair.
[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Staga ]
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Yes it will be great as a boxed sim, but if it went MMP, it would flop. No game in the world can support those graphics and calculate the position of 500 people and stay at a playable framerate, unless you have a 3.0 GHz comp with over 1000MB or RAM and a T3.
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Phew.. IL-2 needs alot more finger work than AH.
If wants to win a fight and another, then you must keep an eye on the temperature gauge.
Short live if you'll fight off one enemy with full power and then try to fight with another when the engine is melting.
Of course rudder becomes more useful than in AH, although fairly ineffective in most planes.
Flaps needs to be lowered and raised all the time if wants to have best results.
..specially IL-2 is tricky plane to fly, bit too tricky on take-off I say.
Got to love napalm and cluster bombs :D
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Originally posted by texace:
Yes it will be great as a boxed sim, but if it went MMP, it would flop. No game in the world can support those graphics and calculate the position of 500 people and stay at a playable framerate, unless you have a 3.0 GHz comp with over 1000MB or RAM and a T3.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. What takes more clock cycles do you think? Receiving position information over a network connection or having these complex AI routines controlling the other planes?
Cheers,
/ft
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If it goes MMPOG....god help HTC,and all others in the busisness
FACT: ;)
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Highflyer, they said that about AH in regards to WB's too, both are alive and well. :)
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Originally posted by Staga:
If I remember right also ailerons in 109 (at least in some models) turned downward few degrees when lowering flaps and gears. Maximum was 11 degrees afair.
[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Staga ]
afair the E was the last model that used this feature.
The Do335 used it too, btw.
If you look really close to the details in IL-2, you īll see some very good things and some bad things
The elevator trim for the 109 works f.e (at least in this demo) like in AH - only the neutral position of the control surface changes, while in reality the whole horizontal stabilizer changed his AoA.
The front lip of the radiotors doesnīt move , and the radiator flaps change ONLY with throttle setting - very easy method to do the coding, but unrealitic.
On the other side the slats, or spring tabs/flettner rudder of the Il-2 f.e.
Besides graphics, i think that AH is still the better dogfighter environment. Better views (Iīm not allowed to use view back with snap view, but even the view back-right starts from a centered position??), better radio, planes are longer visible and donīt disappear as dot so early.
niklas
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" From that point of view Il-2's FM is far better (need some tweaks though) than in WB or AH."
The departure model of both AH and WB has always been one of my main gripes.
Daff
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I find the demo fm to be too easy. I repeatedly battled a fella last night in a tight scissors pattern. We went 1 on 1 at least 5 times, each time we'd end up in tight scissors.
My 109 was turning and burning at the edge of stall, rolled like a dream and still had great pitch response. All common sense says this is impossible.
Either the demo fm is in it's infancy or Oleg has really taken a giant crap on it. If the fm isn't tweaked ya'll will soon get tired of Fighter Ace style fm.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
downloaded the demo only to have a crc error :(
Anyone got a link to a WORKING copy of the game?
What interests me most is the gunnery - it sounds sort of like Ah with LW birds only - i.e no fantasy shots :)
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st santa ignore the crc error it will run anyway
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Ignore CRC (I used zipzilla).
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Santa if you need to download game again mail me.
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I got CRC as well, just ignored it and the game seem to function properly