Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hoarach on June 01, 2006, 08:41:00 PM

Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hoarach on June 01, 2006, 08:41:00 PM
Went to the DA tonight with Gian as the MA was boring.

I filmed 2 of the fights as I forgot to film the others. I will post the forgotten ones when Gian sends them to me.

I think the new 38 is better than the 38 before the bugged patch.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/...11752_film4.ahf

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/...11834_film6.ahf
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: yayyyy on June 01, 2006, 09:02:24 PM
links arent working
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: viper215 on June 01, 2006, 09:21:55 PM
your links are dead......................... YAYYYYYY
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: killnu on June 01, 2006, 09:52:00 PM
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/859_1149211752_film4.ahf (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/859_1149211752_film4.ahf)

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/859_1149211834_film6.ahf (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/859_1149211834_film6.ahf)

see if i fixed my squaddies goof.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Raptor on June 01, 2006, 10:26:10 PM
shhh hoarach, don't let them know!
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: TinmanX on June 01, 2006, 10:34:59 PM
All of a sudden, I want to learn that plane.

Now, to find a patient teacher...
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Morpheus on June 01, 2006, 10:42:25 PM
they fixed it?
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: ujustdied on June 01, 2006, 10:46:10 PM
ya how do i fix it when in the plane in film viewer the views are all messed up like it is all the forward and to the left so i can't  see the whole cockpit. this is wierd it never use to do this a long time ago.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Widewing on June 01, 2006, 10:56:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
they fixed it?


Indeed, they have. And, I have already tested two of them for turn radius and rate. Both show considerable improvement. However, they now retain E so well, getting them whoa'd down enough to get full flaps out requires deliberately slowing down. For the P-38G, turn radius is down to about 460 feet, while maintaining just over 20 degrees per second. That ain't bad...

P-51s had their drag model adjusted and they also improved.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 01, 2006, 11:40:06 PM
so in other words back to a rediculously overmodelled allied planeset?
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Krusty on June 01, 2006, 11:46:26 PM
What storch said.

Basically the US planes now lose no E,.... AGAIN....

2.07 was a blessing, FM-wise. The only problem was the last stage of 38 flaps. *sigh*
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Bronk on June 01, 2006, 11:58:53 PM
Quote
  so in other words back to a rediculously overmodelled allied planeset?



Quote
What storch said. Basically the US planes now lose no E,.... AGAIN....
2.07 was a blessing, FM-wise. The only problem was the last stage of 38 flaps. *sigh*



Let the luftwhine recommence.


Bronk
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: LEDPIG on June 02, 2006, 01:19:54 AM
Do Ya'll think these flight model improvements are realistic?
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 02, 2006, 02:42:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
What storch said.

Basically the US planes now lose no E,.... AGAIN....

2.07 was a blessing, FM-wise. The only problem was the last stage of 38 flaps. *sigh*



If you knew anything about the P-38, which you repeatedly show that you don't,  it was known for it's wonderful energy retention which is one of the reasons why it's one of the best vertical fighters in the game.


ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Kazaa on June 02, 2006, 03:08:07 AM
"The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it "
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Kazaa on June 02, 2006, 03:09:00 AM
"The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it "

Any chance they can fix my mouse too ?

Sorry for double post lol :aok
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Delirium on June 02, 2006, 03:14:14 AM
'bout time they fixed the 38..

Looks like I'll be back in AH soon.... promised myself I wouldn't return until the 38 was fixed or the gameplay improved.

One out 2 isn't bad..
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Kazaa on June 02, 2006, 03:31:22 AM
Ohhh yeah they look fixed.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Gianlupo on June 02, 2006, 05:11:36 AM
Don't be fooled! It's not they fixed it, it's just the fact that I suck! :)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 02, 2006, 06:47:40 AM
Wow, this is great. My favorite plane, and until recently my regular ride, has been remodeled and some mistakes corrected. And since my stick won't function now, I can't even take it up and see how it flies. I couldn't possibly be happier.

I can at least take solace in the fact that I also have no need to go online, and therefore cannot hear the moaning, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments. But it is fun knowing it is happening.

So Storch, it's great they fixed the 109, but they shouldn't have fixed the screw up on the P-38, huh?:noid
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 02, 2006, 07:04:06 AM
I don't think the P38 was broken.  in fact I flew (just prior to this version) with a P38 driver of comparable skill in the DA, 2 sorties in P38s one in the P38G one in the P38J.  in the P38G I augered it. he spent considerable time ridiculing me.  no matter.  in the P38J we both augered in.  he was a little more respectful towards me after that.  my experience in the P38 was very limited having flown them very seldomly and then mostly the L as a flying dumptruck in the moron's arena.  we flew one last sortie in the 109G2 and I prevailed.  I came away with the impression that the P38 is a remarkably easy cartoon plane to play in.  in fact I might spend a tour in it then step into the DA and start handing some of you festering pustules your bargain basement hides in your beloved easymode cartooner's delight.  having said all of that, I can see why you love it so,  they are indeed very sweet to play in so I can't imagine what they must be now with the antigravitydevice.  but we shall soon see, bank on it.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Charge on June 02, 2006, 07:07:46 AM
"Let the luftwhine recommence."

Well, it really seems to me that the whining does pay off. Or does it depend of the markings in the wings? :D

"Quit Luftwhining dweeb -the dark side is destined to lose" :p

-C+
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 02, 2006, 07:08:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
If you knew anything about the P-38, which you repeatedly show that you don't,  it was known for it's wonderful energy retention which is one of the reasons why it's one of the best vertical fighters in the game.


ack-ack
Thomas B. McGuire Jr.  PudgyV.  smoldering crater.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Shifty on June 02, 2006, 07:28:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Thomas B. McGuire Jr.  PudgyV.  smoldering crater.


Thomas Mcguire forgot to punch off his drop tanks before entering a low level fight with a superior turning Japanese fighter. Which goes to show even Ace's have brain farts. Sometimes when they do, it's the last thing they do.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 02, 2006, 07:40:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shifty
Thomas Mcguire forgot to punch off his drop tanks before entering a low level fight with a superior turning Japanese fighter. Which goes to show even Ace's have brain farts. Sometimes when they do, it's the last thing they do.
Never read that.  I read that he reversed with relatively low altitude to clear a noob's 6 and stalled it low and slow thereby breaking some of the cardinal rules he himself had written about fighting in the P38.  of course had he been in an HTC inspired P38 in that very same sortie he could have:

beaten every japanese plane currently in theater.
flown on to hiroshima, bombed it to rubble.
cruised to nagasaki, rinse and repeat.
snagged dugout doug.
towed the missouri and accompanying fleets into Tokyo bay.
signed the surrender instrument from D1.5 with his lasers.

all with one loadout and no hot padding.

gimme a break here.

to Thomas B. McGuire Jr. with all deference and respect.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Balsy on June 02, 2006, 08:20:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Never read that.  I read that he reversed with relatively low altitude to clear a noob's 6 and stalled it low and slow thereby breaking some of the cardinal rules he himself had written about fighting in the P38.  of course had he been in an HTC inspired P38 in that very same sortie he could have:

beaten every japanese plane currently in theater.
flown on to hiroshima, bombed it to rubble.
cruised to nagasaki, rinse and repeat.
snagged dugout doug.
towed the missouri and accompanying fleets into Tokyo bay.
signed the surrender instrument from D1.5 with his lasers.

all with one loadout and no hot padding.

gimme a break here.

to Thomas B. McGuire Jr. with all deference and respect.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Shifty on June 02, 2006, 08:47:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Never read that.  I read that he reversed with relatively low altitude to clear a noob's 6 and stalled it low and slow thereby breaking some of the cardinal rules he himself had written about fighting in the P38.  of course had he been in an HTC inspired P38 in that very same sortie he could have:

beaten every japanese plane currently in theater.
flown on to hiroshima, bombed it to rubble.
cruised to nagasaki, rinse and repeat.
snagged dugout doug.
towed the missouri and accompanying fleets into Tokyo bay.
signed the surrender instrument from D1.5 with his lasers.

all with one loadout and no hot padding.

gimme a break here.

to Thomas B. McGuire Jr. with all deference and respect.


Yeah it's been said his haste to come to the aid of the other pilot was his undoing. This being the reaon for not punching his tanks off.
You forgot raising the flag at Iwo.;)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Pyro on June 02, 2006, 08:59:48 AM
I just did a file diff with the previous version to verify that I didn't inadvertantly change something that I didn't mean to.  One thing changed in the 38s, that is it.  The entry that dictates the change in parasitic drag when using the last notch of flaps was missing a zero immediately after the decimal point due to a typo which then propagated to all the 38s via cut and paste.  This caused the drag to be 10x high when you went from the 4th notch to the last notch and you saw that as the drag chute effect.   What changed is that the drag increment in full flaps only is no longer 10x high.  That's what some of you guys are crying about.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 02, 2006, 09:07:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
 That's what some of you guys are crying about.



:rofl


i love this guy!
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 02, 2006, 09:20:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Never read that.  I read that he reversed with relatively low altitude to clear a noob's 6 and stalled it low and slow thereby breaking some of the cardinal rules he himself had written about fighting in the P38.  



Of course like most things in your life, you're wrong about this.  



ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Kweassa on June 02, 2006, 09:32:36 AM
Quote
I just did a file diff with the previous version to verify that I didn't inadvertantly change something that I didn't mean to. One thing changed in the 38s, that is it. The entry that dictates the change in parasitic drag when using the last notch of flaps was missing a zero immediately after the decimal point due to a typo which then propagated to all the 38s via cut and paste. This caused the drag to be 10x high when you went from the 4th notch to the last notch and you saw that as the drag chute effect. What changed is that the drag increment in full flaps only is no longer 10x high. That's what some of you guys are crying about.



 Comical, ain't it? :D

 I was about to post the following question in every "P-38 improved" threads;


Quote
Guys... If I understand correctly, the 2.08 was supposed to be only a slight makeover in basic GUI... some bugs might have been corrected, but it seems strange that you guys are saying the FM has become different.

Bear in mind that 2.08 Beta was being tested side-by-side with 2.07 as the current standard of the MA. Something's clearly amiss, since there's no way HTC would run two different versions with different FM used by different players.

 Are you sure its just not placebo?



 Well, according to Pyro.. nothing's changed but the last notch of flaps. All those 'better E retention' or 'better handling' rabble simply proves that the 2.07 P-38 never changed at all - all that changed was how people react toward it. One single misinformation, suddenly everybody feels optimistic, and starts to praise the plane as something better - when in fact nothing changed at all.

 Shucks, don't be too embarassed.

 The same thing happend to us Luftweenies when the 190 got a facelift - we all thought the plane became better - when in fact, it sucked as it always sucked. :D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Wilbus on June 02, 2006, 09:41:57 AM
ROFLMAO Charge and Kweassa said all that needs saying :D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Morpheus on June 02, 2006, 09:58:23 AM
Nazi lose war because they suck. Plane and man. Dirty american honkey win war because we have cool double engine plane with super flaps.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Masherbrum on June 02, 2006, 10:03:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Never read that.  I read that he reversed with relatively low altitude to clear a noob's 6 and stalled it low and slow thereby breaking some of the cardinal rules he himself had written about fighting in the P38.  of course had he been in an HTC inspired P38 in that very same sortie he could have:

beaten every japanese plane currently in theater.
flown on to hiroshima, bombed it to rubble.
cruised to nagasaki, rinse and repeat.
snagged dugout doug.
towed the missouri and accompanying fleets into Tokyo bay.
signed the surrender instrument from D1.5 with his lasers.

all with one loadout and no hot padding.

gimme a break here.

to Thomas B. McGuire Jr. with all deference and respect.


He had drop tanks on.  But mocking McGuire is uncalled for, what happened wasn't funny, and SHOULD BE taken literal.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: navajoboy on June 02, 2006, 10:05:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
Nazi lose war because they suck. Plane and man. Dirty american honkey win war because we have cool double engine plane with super flaps.



and cool brown people who spoke an unbreakable code..... :aok
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Morpheus on June 02, 2006, 10:05:39 AM
Ebonix zOMFG.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Stang on June 02, 2006, 10:36:23 AM
:lol
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hazard69 on June 02, 2006, 10:41:49 AM
I have been of the opinion for a long time that the 2.07 FM had improved P38s handling qualities overall, except at fifth notch flap. Now that thats fixed Im surprised to see everybody else agrees with me........:rofl


Anyways I thank HTC for fixing the bug, but I guess I should also thank HTC for implementing it in the first place. If they hadn't Id still be turning in circles only.



:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: navajoboy on June 02, 2006, 10:44:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
Ebonix zOMFG.



hahaha
coming out of your stereo ........

you poptart!

:aok :aok :aok
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 02, 2006, 11:45:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa

 Well, according to Pyro.. nothing's changed but the last notch of flaps. All those 'better E retention' or 'better handling' rabble simply proves that the 2.07 P-38 never changed at all - all that changed was how people react toward it.  

 



That's what I tried to tell the other P-38 drivers but don't think anyone believed me.


ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Guppy35 on June 02, 2006, 12:04:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
That's what I tried to tell the other P-38 drivers but don't think anyone believed me.


ack-ack


I went up last night in the 38G to see if it was different and my first feeling was it felt 'lighter'  My next comment was that I had probably talked myself into believing it and that it wasn't different really but as long as I felt that way it was  OK.

So in that regard, if I talk myself into being more confident again in the 38 because of the flap fix, it's all good :)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Morpheus on June 02, 2006, 12:12:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by navajoboy
hahaha
coming out of your stereo ........

you poptart!

:aok :aok :aok


LOL poptart?

I know I atleast have years on you.

Ebonix?

Let me get my cap and gown. I'll show you what I think of ebonix.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Soulyss on June 02, 2006, 12:40:30 PM
38's definetly had a different feel last night to me... but I chalked it up to just more confidence... last version I constantly had to remind myself which flap setting I was on to make sure I didn't hit that 5th position when I didn't want to... with this version I could focus more on what was happening outside w/out fear of falling out of the sky.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Eagler on June 02, 2006, 12:58:29 PM
just skip ahead 10 more patches and have all planes turn like zeros and be done with it..
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Kweassa on June 02, 2006, 01:11:41 PM
Quote
That's what I tried to tell the other P-38 drivers but don't think anyone believed me.


 Ah the path of the prophet!

 Join the club, I'll lend you my cool-lookin Jedi-ish brown robes. It immediately makes people look credible! :D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Shifty on June 02, 2006, 01:14:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
He had drop tanks on.  But mocking McGuire is uncalled for, what happened wasn't funny, and SHOULD BE taken literal.


Mash.

I don't think Storch meant to be disrespectful of Thomas Mcquire. Maybe the 38 but never Mcquire.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Casper1 on June 02, 2006, 01:22:45 PM
Plane felt lighter?  Did anyone think to check their deadband/dampening settings?  Maybe that changed the feel of the FM?

These settings were reset with new patch (deadband and dampening)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: killnu on June 02, 2006, 01:34:02 PM
OMGz....you guyz are so smart...need another hand to pat yourselves on the back about something already known?  Hey guyz...water is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen...geeshh i told you guyz...lol  and you tought it was H20 all along, haha  I told you.

storch,
109s are just as cartoon as P38s in this GAME....get over yourself sir.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: leitwolf on June 02, 2006, 02:56:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
That's what I tried to tell the other P-38 drivers but don't think anyone believed me.


ack-ack


It's a little hard to type it ;)
but you were right and the rest was wrong.

I could've sworn that something was off with the P-38 low speed handling which had nothing to do with the flaps.

I didnt really believe Pyro's post either but it made me finally do my homework and test it.
I've flown the -J in AH 2.053, 2.072 and 2.08 under identical circumstances today.. and well.. they handle identical when getting slow (without flaps).

Perhaps the flap thingy triggered the impression of different low speed stability but the mass hysteria is a little bit embarassing now :)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: BigR on June 02, 2006, 03:15:51 PM
Storch why are you so bitter over a video game? The 109s fly great now...be happy. Its been said in the past but I will say it again....If you think you can do better, go ahead and try. If you dont like the game, just quit. Its pretty damn simple.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 02, 2006, 03:37:33 PM
bitter?  nope.  instigator? hmmmm could be.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Krusty on June 02, 2006, 03:42:11 PM
Bah, widewing and his "retain E" comment made me freak out for a second. They're the same as 2.07!
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: pluck on June 02, 2006, 04:07:09 PM
i think mostly storch is just trying to get a rise out of people.

guess he beat me to it:)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Widewing on June 02, 2006, 04:17:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Bah, widewing and his "retain E" comment made me freak out for a second. They're the same as 2.07!


The drag model is the same, but no one was using full flaps in 2.07 because of the bug.

Now you can see how much better the P-38s retain E because it's very difficult to burn down speed and get slow enough to get full flaps.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hoarach on June 02, 2006, 07:40:16 PM
Entire film of the duel between me and Gian.

Entire Duel between Hooch and Gian (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/475th_FG_Satans_Angels/files/DA__1_6__06__Hoarach_.ahf)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: WldThing on June 02, 2006, 08:05:44 PM
I dont notice much change after dueling a few P-38's.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Kweassa on June 02, 2006, 09:01:38 PM
Quote
It's a little hard to type it
but you were right and the rest was wrong.



 God.. leitwolf, such a spoilsport.. !

 Nothing takes the fun out of taunting people like when they just flat-out admit their mistakes like a man....

:mad:
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Gianlupo on June 02, 2006, 09:21:52 PM
If someone wants to take the time to watch the movie and has something to say about my bad flying skills, feel free to post it: I'm eager to ear comments.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hoarach on June 02, 2006, 09:52:35 PM
Having trouble finding a host with enough space to host this film.  Anyone have any ideas?
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Morpheus on June 02, 2006, 09:58:48 PM
i can host it.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Vuokko on June 02, 2006, 10:19:52 PM
P38 is ugly.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Jackal1 on June 03, 2006, 01:26:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
I just did a file diff with the previous version to verify that I didn't inadvertantly change something that I didn't mean to.  One thing changed in the 38s, that is it.  The entry that dictates the change in parasitic drag when using the last notch of flaps was missing a zero immediately after the decimal point due to a typo which then propagated to all the 38s via cut and paste.  This caused the drag to be 10x high when you went from the 4th notch to the last notch and you saw that as the drag chute effect.   What changed is that the drag increment in full flaps only is no longer 10x high.  That's what some of you guys are crying about.



%^*&**( I am late again. I was just about to explain that.
I noticed that you failed to mention the changes in the flux capacitor settings.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: mussie on June 03, 2006, 02:37:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
Nazi lose war because they suck. Plane and man. Dirty american honkey win war because we have cool double engine plane with super flaps.


You really love that 38 dont ya Morph....

Never seen much in it, but then again I have never really tried in the 38.....
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Wilbus on June 03, 2006, 03:22:59 AM
OK Gianlupo ;)

Well actually you're flying skills aren't bad. However, you did fly the Ki84 on Hoarach's terms. Or rather, on his P38's terms.

You kept it too fast, used speed to turn faster instead of slowing down and popping flaps (as in spiraling downwards). Remember, 160mph and bellow is where the Ki can use its flaps.

Most turnfighters including the P38 and P51 can beat the Ki84 at speeds of 170-200 and above. It's not untill you fly it slow that it shows what a beast it is.

Take a 38, fly it 100mph, roll it, turn it and feel it. Do the same with a Ki.

Feel the powa ;)

If you want to I'll gladly go inte to TA with you some day in the Ki84. If you wanna learn it some more that is.

Btw, if you want to get into the Ki a little more I'll gladly go in the TA with you and explain it some more :)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Wilbus on June 03, 2006, 03:34:20 AM
If you wanna learn the KI84 some more I'll glady go inte the TA with you some day Gianlupo.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: gatt on June 03, 2006, 03:35:56 AM
Into the TA/DA with Wil in a Ki84? No way. Gian, stay away from that or bring a couple of big bodyguards with you.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Gianlupo on June 03, 2006, 05:01:06 AM
Thanks, Wil, I really hoped you saw that! ;)

Hayate is always giving me trouble with flaps in that: they deploy at very low speed, when I'm already having a hard time keeping the plane in turn. And, of course, they will retract as soon as I gain a bit of speed, even in mild dives... :p

Indeed, most of the times I end up fighting without flaps, even because MA gameplay dictates to keep high speeds.. on the other end, honestly, I didn't relied as much on its turning ability as on its uncanny E building capability... it accelerates and climb like a bat out of hell! :)

I think you can do it even against a 38 and keep it in vertical plane, but, of course, I was wrong... at least against pilots like the Angels :) (but, thinking about it.... Hoarach is a cheater... his plane has 2 engine!!!! :D)

And of course I need to learn the other part of the coin, Ki84 handling at low speed... so I need a teacher....

Wil, I'd like to learn the Ki84 some more, will you gladly go in the TA with me some day? :D

(Don't worry, gatt, I have a couple of body builder friends :D )
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: LEDPIG on June 03, 2006, 05:20:50 AM
I was knife fighting a Nik the other day after the patch, and was getting angles, he was still more maneaverable, after i shot him down i realized i was doing this with drop tanks attached!:O
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Gianlupo on June 03, 2006, 07:23:51 AM
Wil, just keep in mind one thing: I'm a bad student... right after having read what you wrote, I went in MA and... I did it again! I fought (a brief fight, luckily) Slash's 38 on his term :p

Movie (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/853_1149336836_gian_vs_slash.ahf)

I badly underestimated his E... at partial defence, I have to say I didn't see he was dropping from Ackackosphere! :D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hoarach on June 03, 2006, 08:44:07 AM
Im enjoying the 38 now, spit 16s have no advantage.  Was outturning a spit 16 yesterday in a 38L was laughing my head off that spit 16s are useless now like the la7 was in AH1.  The only thing that a spit 16 may have is the low speed turning as I was turning with this spit 16 at about 200 if got to 125 he would of had me.  Roping them will still be a challange but least 38 can outrun them. :D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 03, 2006, 09:14:05 AM
Spitfire XVI will catch up to the P-38L in a level chase.  You found out that a P38 can hang with one in a high speed turn fight and the Lightning can also hang with a Spitfire XVI in a low/stall speed fight.  Those clipped wings on the Spitfire XVI come at a price and you'll see them wallow around at speeds of 125mph (IAS) and lower.  Stall fighting Spitfire XVI's are my favorite way of taking them down.


ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 03, 2006, 10:18:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Spitfire XVI will catch up to the P-38L in a level chase.  You found out that a P38 can hang with one in a high speed turn fight and the Lightning can also hang with a Spitfire XVI in a low/stall speed fight.  Those clipped wings on the Spitfire XVI come at a price and you'll see them wallow around at speeds of 125mph (IAS) and lower.  Stall fighting Spitfire XVI's are my favorite way of taking them down.


ack-ack
people stallfight at 107K?
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hoarach on June 03, 2006, 06:08:19 PM
Courtesy of Morph hosting it, here is the film of the entire time of me and Gian in the DA.

Hooch and Gian in the DA (http://www.furballunderground.com/films/DA__1_6__06__Hoarach_.ahf)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: DYNAMITE on June 03, 2006, 06:29:44 PM
Perk the P-38J

:D :D :D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Platano on June 03, 2006, 06:42:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hoarach
Im enjoying the 38 now, spit 16s have no advantage.  Was outturning a spit 16 yesterday in a 38L was laughing my head off that spit 16s are useless now like the la7 was in AH1.  The only thing that a spit 16 may have is the low speed turning as I was turning with this spit 16 at about 200 if got to 125 he would of had me.  Roping them will still be a challange but least 38 can outrun them. :D



I'm tellin you HTC should just skip ahead a couple of patches and make ALL allied planes turn like Zero's and N1K's....  Give the B-17 a bigger bombload... find some Phony made up info that magically reveals that the P-51 had cruise speed in excess of 500mph therfore making it faster than a LALA... ga head and make a tempest magically faster than a 262..  that would b intersting....how bout it?  :aok
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 03, 2006, 07:47:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
people stallfight at 107K?


How about we set up a time in the DA?  You in any bf109 you want and me in a P-38J.  We'll even make it interesting...I'll even toss in a wager that I win all the fights.


ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 03, 2006, 08:48:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
How about we set up a time in the DA?  You in any bf109 you want and me in a P-38J.  We'll even make it interesting...I'll even toss in a wager that I win all the fights.


ack-ack
how about either in the 109G2 for both of us and later in the P38J for both of us, or vice versa.  but it has to be co alt.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hoarach on June 03, 2006, 09:48:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Perk the P-38J

:D :D :D


Ehhhh, flying the 38L a lot more now and finding since the patch its the better bird right now.  38J feels it can turn a bit better but overral the L is better and has sexier bare metal 475th skins. :D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: 38ruk on June 03, 2006, 11:44:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Platano
I'm tellin you HTC should just skip ahead a couple of patches and make ALL allied planes turn like Zero's and N1K's....  Give the B-17 a bigger bombload... find some Phony made up info that magically reveals that the P-51 had cruise speed in excess of 500mph therfore making it faster than a LALA... ga head and make a tempest magically faster than a 262..  that would b intersting....how bout it?  :aok


:noid :noid
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Gianlupo on June 04, 2006, 07:05:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Perk the P-38J

:D :D :D


PERK THE VETERANS!!!! :D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 04, 2006, 09:10:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
how about either in the 109G2 for both of us and later in the P38J for both of us, or vice versa.  but it has to be co alt.



what's wrong storchie?  afraid to fight a P-38 in a 109?


ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 04, 2006, 09:57:22 AM
whats wrong acky afraid of an = co alt fight?
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 04, 2006, 10:10:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
whats wrong acky afraid of an = co alt fight?


LMAO!  Ummm...as far as I know all duels are co-alt.  I was just wondering since you were so against a 109 vs. P-38 matchup that you must obviously be scared of fighting a P-38 in a 109  Which then leads one to conclude that you're just another CHI/GTShelby/RManiac.

When you actually develop some mediocum of ability and some balls, come holler and we'll have a nice little duel with a wager to make things interesting.



ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 04, 2006, 11:41:45 AM
call me out, chicken out, then posture.  I don't think you have a co alt fight in you.  just saying.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 04, 2006, 01:06:21 PM
When did I chicken out?  I'm not the one that is afraid of a P-38 vs. bf109 duel.  You're the one that won't duel in a bf109 vs. P-38.  Oh...don't try the coalt thing as an excuse to back out, as I said all duels are coalt affairs so trying to claim I want something other than that is just an excuse you're making to chicken out Storchie.

I guess when push comes to shove, you just fall over.


ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Platano on June 04, 2006, 01:09:09 PM
Hey ack-ack mind if I take you on when Storch is done with you??
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: SkyRock on June 04, 2006, 01:09:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
When did I chicken out?  I'm not the one that is afraid of a P-38 vs. bf109 duel.  You're the one that won't duel in a bf109 vs. P-38.  Oh...don't try the coalt thing as an excuse to back out, as I said all duels are coalt affairs so trying to claim I want something other than that is just an excuse you're making to chicken out Storchie.

I guess when push comes to shove, you just fall over.


ack-ack
I'll duel ya me in K-4 u in 38!:aok
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: WldThing on June 04, 2006, 01:26:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
When did I chicken out?  I'm not the one that is afraid of a P-38 vs. bf109 duel.  You're the one that won't duel in a bf109 vs. P-38.  Oh...don't try the coalt thing as an excuse to back out, as I said all duels are coalt affairs so trying to claim I want something other than that is just an excuse you're making to chicken out Storchie.

I guess when push comes to shove, you just fall over.


ack-ack


Yo Ack-Ack, Dont waste your time arguing with storch, I faced him in the AvA yesterday, out of 4 fights he augered 3 times trying to roll.. And then after his proceeding stance of my suckage, I took him to the DA, and let's just say I wasted 10 minutes of my life that I will never get back.

Anyway he's nothing more than a troll with quite a mouth.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hoarach on June 04, 2006, 01:28:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WldThing
Yo Ack-Ack, Dont waste your time arguing with storch, I faced him in the AvA yesterday, out of 4 fights he augered 3 times trying to roll.. And then after his proceeding stance of my suckage, I took him to the DA, and let's just say I wasted 10 minutes of my life that I will never get back.

Anyway he's nothing more than a troll with quite a mouth.


:lol :rofl :lol :rofl
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 04, 2006, 01:44:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
[B bak bak bak bak bak baaaaaaaaakkkkkk,  plop


ack-ack [/B]
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Grits on June 04, 2006, 01:56:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WldThing
Yo Ack-Ack, Dont waste your time arguing with storch, I faced him in the AvA yesterday, out of 4 fights he augered 3 times trying to roll.. And then after his proceeding stance of my suckage, I took him to the DA, and let's just say I wasted 10 minutes of my life that I will never get back.

Anyway he's nothing more than a troll with quite a mouth.


A more precise summation of Storch you will not find anywhere. His lack of skill is only exceeded by his lack of class.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: 38ruk on June 04, 2006, 02:15:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
A more precise summation of Storch you will not find anywhere. His lack of skill is only exceeded by his lack of class.


LOL
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 04, 2006, 02:15:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
I'll duel ya me in K-4 u in 38!:aok



Sure.  I move into my new apartment on Tuesday and get my Internet connected on Wednesday so I should be up flying Wednesday night.  The apartments that my company has put me up in for the last couple of months has a crappy wireless network that usually drops connection every 20 minutes.  so that's why I've been MIA this tour.



ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 04, 2006, 02:17:20 PM
I wasn't very impressed with tmthng at all. what he failed to mention is that he was vultching and/or not allowing anyone to up.  in the DA one fight was almost a guns solution for me and the other was an auger.  poor performance from one who is supposed to be one of the best players.  spare me, u ain't much.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 04, 2006, 02:18:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
A more precise summation of Storch you will not find anywhere. His lack of skill is only exceeded by his lack of class.
pipsqueak still pipsqueaks that pretty much summarizes you mr. pint sized cartoon killer.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Urchin on June 04, 2006, 02:22:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
When did I chicken out?  I'm not the one that is afraid of a P-38 vs. bf109 duel.  You're the one that won't duel in a bf109 vs. P-38.  Oh...don't try the coalt thing as an excuse to back out, as I said all duels are coalt affairs so trying to claim I want something other than that is just an excuse you're making to chicken out Storchie.

I guess when push comes to shove, you just fall over.


ack-ack


I'll go against you in a 109.. I think it'd be a pretty good fight personally.

I wonder if the new n improved 109F will tear up the recently unporked P-38 lol.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Eagler on June 04, 2006, 03:16:58 PM
109e and 109f are good fights with good p38s

I appreciate that for every really good 38 there are many not so good ones
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Urchin on June 04, 2006, 03:26:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I wasn't very impressed with tmthng at all. what he failed to mention is that he was vultching and/or not allowing anyone to up.  in the DA one fight was almost a guns solution for me and the other was an auger.  poor performance from one who is supposed to be one of the best players.  spare me, u ain't much.


Yea, he DOES suck storch, he isn't anywhere NEAR as good as you.  I don't care what anybody says, you'll always be the BESTEST in MY book!
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Grits on June 04, 2006, 03:30:45 PM
At the moment the 109F is quite the little monster. If it only had the gondola option...
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Widewing on June 04, 2006, 05:13:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
I'll go against you in a 109.. I think it'd be a pretty good fight personally.

I wonder if the new n improved 109F will tear up the recently unporked P-38 lol.


If the P-38 driver dumps flaps and attempts to maneuver with the 109F... He's a dead pidgeon.

If he blows by on the merge and E fights the 109F he'll have a reasonable chance.

Given equal pilots, I lean towards the 109F-4.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Gianlupo on June 05, 2006, 03:00:00 AM
I suppose all this dueling will be done in american evening hours... any change some you guys will be online around 3/4 PM? Never flew the 109s too much, but I'm willing to try. :)
Title: p38 FM changed? I think Not
Post by: IceBird on June 05, 2006, 06:24:30 AM
In the previous version, u guys forgot how P-38 flaps work, which was going suddenly in deep banking to a side or some slight stall with hitting the flap key. It gave serious disavantage in the begining of turn fight. In simple word, you have to think back to see if u got too used to the previous p-38.

And about the 2 films, in the previous version i usually won in the sort of turn fight over Ki-84 or even spit5 which little experienced pilots rode. then now if i lose the fight, is the FM changed to down? what do u think? the second film #6 KI-84 ridder lost his sight at the end of the fight when he had to move it quickly on his enemy back or six high.

Here's one more thing. P-38s have two powerful engines. And the two engines give the power to maintain it in air in low speed. That's all
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Wilbus on June 07, 2006, 01:59:02 PM
Hehehe, yes they do deploy at low speeds, and low speeds is where most other planes suck.

Thus you must use the Ki84 at low speeds. Keep it slow enough to use flaps. It can fly extremely slow with flaps out, much slower then most planes and it can still maneuver good at those speeds.

Give me a hollar if you see me online and we'll go to the TA and train some :)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Gianlupo on June 07, 2006, 02:15:07 PM
Again, thans wil, be sure I'll do so. And remember I'm a bad student! :p
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: -pjk-- on June 07, 2006, 02:49:05 PM
Ok , p38 is a monster now....     Turning  flaps all out at 110-130mph on deck... +4G-6G.
And you point and proof...? to actually mean something/anything to ACM and E fighting+  willing to do what game allows to  do without fearing to get killed by yourself??  RL ...Where are you???;)

So far, have not met monster  p38:D .

All the hype of  low and slow  all flaps out cheerio is kinda weird, it "never" happened in RL .

Flaps all out was/still is for landing

I would  like to  see you  do  those  moves in RL

Few hours RL sticktime would  do  good few/all of you:D

Back to subject.. . this is a game:D :D , and i  understand you:D

Hups:)  What  few glasses wine can do to you:D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Eagler on June 07, 2006, 03:45:05 PM
like to see a good 109f vs good 38g

the 109f is a monster now with the last patch
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 07, 2006, 07:05:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by -pjk--

Flaps all out was/still is for landing

I would  like to  see you  do  those  moves in RL

Few hours RL sticktime would  do  good few/all of you:D




In regards to the P-38, there are quite a few pilot stories of engagments where they used full flaps to gain angles in a turn fight.  However, just because they used full flaps doesn't mean they rode full flaps for the entire engagment.  You have to learn the difference before you go off and claim something was unrealistic.

As for the P-38 not being a "monster" that is clearly subjective point of view and one that is usually held by those with very limited, if at all, flying experience in the Lightning in AH.  Dismissed.



ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: ded on June 07, 2006, 07:21:24 PM
Meh, this whole thing is pointless. If you let a 38, or any other flap dependant plane drag you into low speed... it's your own fault if you die.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 07, 2006, 07:27:27 PM
gotta love akak and his posturing.  the fact he only flies at 107k and shoots down afk players disqualifies him as a credible player.  his opinion means nothing.  get your bad self down into the weeds and show us some films, ace
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 07, 2006, 07:32:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
gotta love akak and his posturing.  the fact he only flies at 107k and shoots down afk players disqualifies him as a credible player.  his opinion means nothing.  get your bad self down into the weeds and show us some films, ace



Here you go Storchie...this is the latest film I made after the 2.08 update that porked the drag model on the P-38.

Storchie eats his words... (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178230)

So how about that bf109 vs. P-38 duel I asked you about last week?  Still looking for excuses not to duel me?  


ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 07, 2006, 07:41:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Here you go Storchie...this is the latest film I made after the 2.08 update that porked the drag model on the P-38.

Storchie eats his words... (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178230)

So how about that bf109 vs. P-38 duel I asked you about last week?  Still looking for excuses not to duel me?  


ack-ack
anytime in equal planes then if you'd like we could do P38 v 109
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: jaxxo on June 07, 2006, 07:51:06 PM
im not taking sides at all here but i rarely see a p38 low and slow enuff to use those advantages..mostly that the the 38  is a con magnet and will immediately attract the attention of 5 to 10 spits and niks to come waste it..also the best 38 sticks usually have good sa as well as a few wingmen to clear them..not a judgement just a fact..
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: SuperDud on June 07, 2006, 07:51:45 PM
I'll beat everybody.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 07, 2006, 07:59:39 PM
film doesn't show much akak.  the fact remains that you (and most AH P38 players) always always always maintain significant altitude advantage and seldom give it up.  the clear exception being pellik who could be made wade into a low fight and most times still come out on top, but please note that he would have to be forced to give up his alt advantage.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 07, 2006, 08:00:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
I'll beat everybody.
no one cares about your sexual pecadillos.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: SuperDud on June 07, 2006, 08:10:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
no one cares about your sexual pecadillos.


LOL

:aok
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Slash27 on June 07, 2006, 08:11:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
anytime in equal planes then if you'd like we could do P38 v 109



Challenge accepted at 19:41hrs CST. Still waiting for the response from the AKAK camp.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 07, 2006, 08:14:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
film doesn't show much akak.  the fact remains that you (and most AH P38 players) always always always maintain significant altitude advantage and seldom give it up.  the clear exception being pellik who could be made wade into a low fight and most times still come out on top, but please note that he would have to be forced to give up his alt advantage.



Should check out these P-38 films then.  Heck, you might even learn some ACM.

479th film library (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=1)

ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Slash27 on June 07, 2006, 08:19:10 PM
Whens the damn duel????:furious
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Hoarach on June 07, 2006, 08:34:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by jaxxo
im not taking sides at all here but i rarely see a p38 low and slow enuff to use those advantages..mostly that the the 38  is a con magnet and will immediately attract the attention of 5 to 10 spits and niks to come waste it..also the best 38 sticks usually have good sa as well as a few wingmen to clear them..not a judgement just a fact..


Made a good point. :aok

But usually im on the deck TnB going into the fight at about 8-10k and end up getting myself low and slow.  Good thing always got wingmen to back up with.  But 38s do seem to get the eye of almost everything thinking they will be such easy kills and then find themselves getting killed because that 38 low and slow just outturned your spit 16.  Many underestimate what the 38 can do now and dont think that their spit 16/ la7/ nik is no longer invincable in a turn against a 38.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 07, 2006, 11:11:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Challenge accepted at 19:41hrs CST. Still waiting for the response from the AKAK camp.
challenge was accepted a few days ago but who cares?  from my perspective duelling is pointless.  none of what occurs in a duel has any significance in a furball.  it proves nothing.  you want a duel? name a dojo and let's spar a bit.  that is infinitely more gratifying.  in AH duelling irrespective of the outcome the next time he logs on  in the MA (akak) he'll be at 107k hunting guys who have something in the microwave and went to fetch it.  that's how he plays.  not to get chest puffy or anything but it is no feat to go into the MA today, up a midwar plane and go smoke a handful of the unintiated in spit16s.  the MA seems to become lamer with every passing tour.  the only good to come from it is the coffers of HTC are full and that might be funding a more interesting game further on down the road.  there is a chinese saying "one generation plants the seed, another generation benefits from the shade".
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Slash27 on June 07, 2006, 11:32:10 PM
Well there is plenty of "shades" in the MA right now.










Get it . "shades"...

















Anyway, DA or dojo I want to watch.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Guppy35 on June 07, 2006, 11:46:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by jaxxo
im not taking sides at all here but i rarely see a p38 low and slow enuff to use those advantages..mostly that the the 38  is a con magnet and will immediately attract the attention of 5 to 10 spits and niks to come waste it..also the best 38 sticks usually have good sa as well as a few wingmen to clear them..not a judgement just a fact..


I must not be flying where you are Jaxxo :)

Had me a one in a million, knock down drag out fight in my 38G vs a Spit 16 the other day.  He was at 9K and I was at 6 when he bounced me as a made a pass at a buff group.  Fight turned down to the deck and got slower and slower.  The flaps came out on both our birds and ultimately his clipped wing stalled out before my 38 and he had to level and extend.  I did the same and followed and he quickly turned into me and we ended up in a rolling scissors on the deck.  That last notch of flaps made the difference as I was able to hang with him and he couldn't spit me out one side of the fight.  

I finally took off a wing with a snap shot as he pulled tight in front of me.  The fight lasted exactly 5 minutes.  Yeah I suck and a good 38 stick might have gotten him sooner, but in the pre patch 38, I'd have stalled it into the water.

The most fun 1 v 1 I've had in a while.

Rolling over the top as we battled for position.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1149532052_scissors.jpg)

The snap shot that took off his wing.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1149531811_gotem2.jpg)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: pigface on June 08, 2006, 12:03:49 AM
Maybe I'm missing something...

Lockheed P-38 Lightning
Big, twin-engine fighter plane used by Army fliers from 1943 in the Pacific
 
9,200 planes produced, starting in March, 1942.
P-38J specs: 420 MPH, , four 50 caliber machine guns and one 20 mm cannon, all nose-mounted

Why can't I get my 38 to go over 350 without compressing? I can barely get this bird over 300 on level flight. All the above gibbah jabbah on wether this is an accurate model still fall short. Still my fav of fav planes and this FM is really close, I just want to put the Lightening back in P38 Lightening!!

Specification of the P-38L:

14,100 lbs empty, 17,500 lbs combat loaded. Maximum speed was 360 mph at 5000 feet, 390 mph at 15,000 feet, 414 mph at 25,000 feet. An altitude of 20,000 feet could be reached in 7 minutes. Service ceiling was 40,000 feet. Maximum range at sea level was 900 miles. At 30,000 feet, maximum range was 2260 miles (with drop tanks). Dimensions were wingspan 52 feet 0 inches, length 37 feet 10 inches, height 12 feet 10 inches, and wing area 328 square feet Armed with one 20-mm Hispano AN-M2C cannon with 150 rounds and four 0.50-inch Browning machine guns with 500 rounds per gun.

This data and the rest of the 38 specs were found at:

Acepilots.com

http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p38_lightning.html (http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p38_lightning.html)

And here:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38_15.html (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38_15.html)


(http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p38_3way.jpg)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Murdr on June 08, 2006, 12:13:52 AM
420 mph at 26.000 ft
414 mph at 25,000 ft

Compression can be managed, here is a film where I top out at 505 mph diving away from 2 after going bingo ammo bingofun.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=26)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: pigface on June 08, 2006, 12:25:39 AM
Cool flick! Cant believe they followed you into the ack like that. So how did you get it to not compress?
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 08, 2006, 12:32:15 AM
It should be noted that buffeting begins before the onset of compression.

I use several tricks (rolling and lateral skids for the most part) in order to not actually compress, but I ride the buffet when necessary for speed.

I do agree that compression appears to be overmodelled here, at least as compared to what actual pilots have told me, as well as what is written in most books.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: 38ruk on June 08, 2006, 10:40:17 AM
I've read in Warren Bodie's book, "The Lockheed P-38 LIGHTNING " , that compressibilty was never encountered with dives starting below 25,000 ft .

In Chapter 7 "The Specters of War and Compressibility " PG:77 Pharagraph 2 SNIP: "For a number of reasons , it was virtually impossible to encounter compressibilty tuck in any P-38 types if the dive was entered at 25,000 feet or less . Numerous test flights confirm this " SNIP

Ive posted this before and never really got a answer either way about why the 38 here is easily compressed below 25k .
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Wilbus on June 08, 2006, 11:07:33 AM
The P38 had a very low max Mach speed of (if I remember correct in my head) 0.74 meaning that was the max speed it could reach in any dive.

Compare this to a Spitfire of 0.92 and you'll see why it compressed as early as it does.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: 38ruk on June 08, 2006, 11:33:33 AM
At 0.68 the 38 will begin compressibilty that peaks at 0.74 , im not questioning that   . I'm questioning the fact that test pilots and lockheed said that compressabilty wasnt an issue below 25k , but in AH i can get a 38 to compress at 10k .  I'm just saying it should be looked into.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: LEDPIG on June 08, 2006, 11:48:51 AM
Well geez if nobody else will fight you i will Storchee, sounds like fun, i'm always up for a good tussle:D
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: storch on June 08, 2006, 02:17:34 PM
I don't see what the big deal is.  I get as many planes as I want to die in for $14.95 per month.  The problem might be that some of the players might not have much of a social life and place far too great an emphasis on how they are perceived by other social outcasts within this "community".  I will cheerfully fight you in the DA or The AvA or the MA or this bbs or in any other venue, I just like to fight, it matters little to me what the medium is.  If you beat me I will taunt you some more and fight you again.  ask that idiot tmthng.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Lazerr on June 08, 2006, 04:25:42 PM
Ya storch, your singing an old song man... ;)
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Widewing on June 08, 2006, 05:39:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
The P38 had a very low max Mach speed of (if I remember correct in my head) 0.74 meaning that was the max speed it could reach in any dive.

Compare this to a Spitfire of 0.92 and you'll see why it compressed as early as it does.


Heya Wilbus, Spitfires had a critical Mach well below Mach 0.92, probably closer to Mach 0.78 to 0.80.

The single Spitfire that reportedly attained Mach 0.92 did so missing its prop and without the benefit of instrumentation that could accurately measure airspeeds that high.

I am not aware of any viable test data that shows a speed greater than Mach 0.84 (in a dive) for any WWII aircraft with a propeller attached to its engine.

Critical Mach for the P-38 was Mach 0.68.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Tac on June 08, 2006, 11:23:56 PM
the question is: why do the 38 flaps still auto-retract?


#1 reason why i have not re-subscribed. Nothing more idiotic than a fairy feature making you spin when all it should do is buffet your plane and in prolonged exposure lock the flaps.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Wilbus on June 09, 2006, 05:15:18 AM
Interesting Widewing, thanks for the info :)

Tac, the reason the flaps autoretract was answered by HT quite long ago. It's either that or that they jam in that speed instead. They've chosen to make them all auto retract.
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 09, 2006, 09:19:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Tac
the question is: why do the 38 flaps still auto-retract?



Because HiTech believes that the players need to have their hands held.


ack-ack
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: Eagler on June 09, 2006, 09:28:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Tac
the question is: why do the 38 flaps still auto-retract?


#1 reason why i have not re-subscribed. Nothing more idiotic than a fairy feature making you spin when all it should do is buffet your plane and in prolonged exposure lock the flaps.


because every plane in ah does? a compromise for sub count as are many other less than rl settings ..

have you tried it since the buffet effect was added? It now gives you a bit of a warning before you spin in ..
Title: The new 38 is a monster....Have films to prove it
Post by: toon on June 16, 2006, 12:36:20 PM
okay, i saw this one late. after having my fanny handed to me repeatedly by the likes of  horach and delirium and others in my personal garden of eden known as Fiter Town on the present map, i have a rekindled interest in the 38. i've always loved the plane but  have been unable to do much with it. in the ta i'll fly the j model but in the ma i get nastified by anyone with a gun. if any of you 38 jocks would be kind enough to give a boost i'd be grateful. brick31...currently flying 51b,spit5,and sometimes 47-d40  p.s. i know it wasn't the plane. delirium and horach and the other guy srry cant remember yer name.