Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Enduro on June 02, 2006, 10:01:10 AM
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Folks,
I have an extra pay period this month; so, I'm thinking about buying a new video card for my system. I haven't taken the chance to read reviews on the hardware that's available right now. I know this community is up on the latest wonder cards, though.
Would appreciate your input. Looking to spend -$300 if possible.
My box is a Dell yea, Dell Dimension 8250 P4 2.4GHz / 768 MB RAMBUS.
I don't know the motherboard, but it's a Dell.
Currently am using a RADEON 9500 Pro / 9700 with Omega drivers and have been pretty happy with it the last several years.
Much appreciated,
Enduro
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The 7800GS (280-$300) is the best AGP video card availiable on the market, and will probably be that best AGP card you will ever be able to get . Unfortuantley with a 2.4 ghz cpu you wont be able to push a 7800 series card . This is just my opinion , but i would say that you are cpu limited . You could put a 7800 in and not see much of difference . You could try a 9800pro , but its not a big difference from a 9700 . Maybe someone else has done the same upgrade in here and will have more info .
38
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9800s too weak, pretty much same as 9700pro.
If i was you'd I'd invest in more RAM 512MB or 1GB ($85) and rest spend on a card, considerin your CPU i'd get something along the lines of 6800 ultra or ATI X800, x850.
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Don't forget the option of upgrading the CPU at a later time, as well!
If you get (for example) a Ge7800 now, you might not get all the performance out of it, but it will run better than what you have. Then later, if you upgrade your CPU to a higher level, you *will* get more performance out of the Ge7800.
It just depends on the cpu socket type, I guess.
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Have the exact same system and thinking about doing the same thing. (I've got 512mb ram though). I am not sure it is worth it though. CPU and RAM will most likely be the things that slows it down.
Birddogg, upgrading the RAM isn't really an option as it is RAMBUS RDRAM. Not sure of the price in the US but in sweden it is about 3 times as expensive as normal DDR2.
For 512mb more I'd have to couch up 300 dollars.
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you're right wilbus, i missed the RAMBUS part.
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You still got better than my 9200 Xtasy.
Grr... the drivers suck.
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alright, thanks for the feedback guys. i'll just keep the money in the bank and consider building a new box later on down the road.
:)
cheers!
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Believe I will do the same Enduro.
Rgr Birddogg, easy to miss.
I now regret that I chose a computer with RAMBUS, didn't know it would stay expensive as hell for ever :(
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Originally posted by 38ruk
The 7800GS (280-$300) is the best AGP video card availiable on the market, and will probably be that best AGP card you will ever be able to get . Unfortuantley with a 2.4 ghz cpu you wont be able to push a 7800 series card . This is just my opinion , but i would say that you are cpu limited . You could put a 7800 in and not see much of difference . You could try a 9800pro , but its not a big difference from a 9700 . Maybe someone else has done the same upgrade in here and will have more info . 38
800xt ati is best bet for the system you have. No need spending more money for a card since you will have to upgrade in a year or so and your new MB wont be able to use the card you just bought.
And I have a 2.8 with a 470 watt ps. This is the card I bought to replace my 9800pro.
It is definately a move up.
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x850xt or 7800gs based cards.
the x850xt is very overcloackable has VIVO and is a little faster then the 7800 but it lacks Pixel shader 3.0 support (has 2.0)
the 7800gs is cheaper yet darn near as fast as a x850xt and has pixel shader 3.0 support but it lack vivo (only has video out no in)
ATI has been release new cards in AGP up to and including the 1800 however they can be hard to find and I do not know how they stack up against the x850xt and the 7800gs
Me I chose the x850xt becuase I need VIVO. If I did not need VIVO I probably would have gone with the 7800 simply becuase it is alot cheaper.
I was in a simular situation. I was running ...
p4 2.8ghz ht
1gb cas2 ddr
gigabyte ga-8knxp rev 2 478 875p mb
ati radeon aiw 9800 pro
creative SB audioligy 2 az plat.
I upgraded the Video card to a x850xt the cpu to a 3.4ghz HT added 1gb cas2 ddr mem and threw in a water cooling system due to the p4 478 prescots run hot, I think intel even stoped making them due to heat issues.
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the x850xt is very overcloackable has VIVO and is a little faster then the 7800 but it lacks Pixel shader 3.0 support (has 2.0)
Every bennchmark ive seen puts the 7800GS above the X850, XT, PE, PRO, it doesnt matter . It makes sense since its a next generation card when compared to the 850 series . Do you have any links to show the 850 beating a 7800? Dont get me wrong , im not trying to be a smart bellybutton , i just like to have my facts straight . I read a statement from ATI that said the X850 series would be the last of their high-end AGP cards, Diamond MM had a typo on their website that said there was going to be a X1800 in AGP . They have since released a statement that said they were sorry for the typo . Have you seen a X1800 on the net somewhere ?
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I'm pretty sure the 7800GS would be faster than any ATI 850, like 38ruk said. The mid level current gen cards beat the high end last gen cards even though they're priced about the same.
I wouldn't buy any ATI 8xx series or nvidia 8xxx series card at this point. The same priced ati 1xxx and nvidia 7xxx cards are simply faster and have more features than the last gen cards.
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Originally posted by Silat
800xt ati is best bet for the system you have. No need spending more money for a card since you will have to upgrade in a year or so and your new MB wont be able to use the card you just bought.
And I have a 2.8 with a 470 watt ps. This is the card I bought to replace my 9800pro.
It is definately a move up.
This is what i would buy in your case , Its cheap , and will be a step up . I read a bunch of review on different sites ,and people in the same situation have seen a noticable in crease in video performance . At 139 , it makes it easier to buy even thou you wont be able to carry over to your next system .
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102609
I wouldn't buy any ATI 8xx series or nvidia 8xxx series card at this point. The same priced ati 1xxx and nvidia 7xxx cards are simply faster and have more features than the last gen cards.
If it was PCIe id agree Eagl, Unfortunately the AGP market is really poor
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ati makes a x1600 512mb agp thats the cats meow for agp ... 1200mhz vpu
(hell its faster then some of your guys pc's)
http://www.crucial.com/store/listmodule.asp?family=VIDEO%20CARD&tabid=AGP%20Graphics%20Card (http://www.crucial.com/store/listmodule.asp?family=VIDEO%20CARD&tabid=AGP%20Graphics%20Card)
I have 2 crucial cards and ive been very happy with them ...
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aaaaah, thanks guys. :) encouraging input. it sounds like i may still have some options for this old box of mine.
so, let me get this straight...
Silat recommends the ATI X850X at $349.00...
38RUK, you're recommending this Sapphire card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102609) as a less-expensive alternative. is Sapphire a manufacturer that builds the generic version of the card, basically?
eagl recommends the GeForce 7800GS at $349.00--comparable to the ATI X850X.
again, newegg appears to be selling a generic version of the card here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130275) for $299.00
Roo is recommending the Crucial X1600 (http://www.crucial.com/store/listmodule.asp?family=VIDEO%20CARD&tabid=AGP%20Graphics%20Card) at $300. if I purchased this card, should i expect overheating issues considering my Dell (P4, 2.4GHz) has room for only 1 fan?
I apologize for calling the newegg products generics. currently lacking a better word for it. :)
NOTE: I don't mind spending the $300-$350 if it's a safer bet. Could really use your input re: the reliability of mainstream vs. generics.[/color]
Thank you, gentlemen.
The Crucial card sounds cool. But, it requires a 350W power supply. My stock power supply = only 150W.
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Originally posted by 38ruk
The 7800GS (280-$300) is the best AGP video card availiable on the market, and will probably be that best AGP card you will ever be able to get . Unfortuantley with a 2.4 ghz cpu you wont be able to push a 7800 series card . This is just my opinion , but i would say that you are cpu limited . 38
really 38?, heck people were recomending the 7800 to me and im running a amd 3700 2.4 clawhammer 1 gig cache.
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Originally posted by Enduro
aaaaah, thanks guys. :) encouraging input. it sounds like i may still have some options for this old box of mine.
so, let me get this straight...
Silat recommends the ATI X850X at $349.00...
38RUK, you're recommending this Sapphire card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102609) as a less-expensive alternative. is Sapphire a manufacturer that builds the generic version of the card, basically?
eagl recommends the GeForce 7800GS at $349.00--comparable to the ATI X850X.
again, newegg appears to be selling a generic version of the card here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130275) for $299.00
Roo is recommending the Crucial X1600 (http://www.crucial.com/store/listmodule.asp?family=VIDEO%20CARD&tabid=AGP%20Graphics%20Card) at $300. if I purchased this card, should i expect overheating issues considering my Dell (P4, 2.4GHz) has room for only 1 fan?
I apologize for calling the newegg products generics. currently lacking a better word for it. :)
NOTE: I don't mind spending the $300-$350 if it's a safer bet. Could really use your input re: the reliability of mainstream vs. generics.[/color]
Thank you, gentlemen.
The Crucial card sounds cool. But, it requires a 350W power supply. My stock power supply = only 150W.
enduro, take alook at the saphire x850 pro just got one from newegg last week, for like $220.00 and it has a 30 dollar mailin rebate right now.
check out my post, we had similar hardware
New video crad (http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=177708)
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
enduro, take alook at the saphire x850 pro just got one from newegg last week, for like $220.00 and it has a 30 dollar mailin rebate right now.
check out my post, we had similar hardware
New video crad (http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=177708)
will do. are you running a system comparable to mine? P4, 2.4GHz, 768MB Rambus, 150W power supply.
wow...you have a 400W power supply. was that absolutely necessary to run that video card?
and, what's your performance in AH2 like so far?
thanks, Devil.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
really 38?, heck people were recomending the 7800 to me and im running a amd 3700 2.4 clawhammer 1 gig cache.
A 2.4 ghz P4 isnt anything like a 2.4ghz 3700+ , apples to oranges .
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
ati makes a x1600 512mb agp thats the cats meow for agp ... 1200mhz vpu
(hell its faster then some of your guys pc's)
http://www.crucial.com/store/listmodule.asp?family=VIDEO%20CARD&tabid=AGP%20Graphics%20Card (http://www.crucial.com/store/listmodule.asp?family=VIDEO%20CARD&tabid=AGP%20Graphics%20Card)
I have 2 crucial cards and ive been very happy with them ...
There are some benches out there that compare the X1600 to the x800 and x850 , the 1600 get stomped pretty bad, some times by 20fps in certain games . althou the 1600 wasnt the model you linked to above roo 38
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38RUK, you're recommending this Sapphire card as a less-expensive alternative. is Sapphire a manufacturer that builds the generic version of the card, basically?
The reason im recommending the x800gto is that it's cheap, your current cpu isnt going to push a 7800 or x850 , even the x800gto isnt going to be maxed by your cpu . I cant see spending 300 bucks on a card that your arent going to carry over to a new machine, or fully utilize with the current setup you have.
EDIT: A 150W power supply ?? Even the 9500pro requires a 300W power supply . That could be holding you back with the card you have .
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Originally posted by 38ruk
The reason im recommending the x800gto is that it's cheap, your current cpu isnt going to push a 7800 or x850 , even the x800gto isnt going to be maxed by your cpu . I cant see spending 300 bucks on a card that your arent going to carry over to a new machine, or fully utilize with the current setup you have.
Okay. Let me ask a question re: power supplies as I've never replaced one. I'm currently using the OEM 150W power supply. Is it safe to assume that a 350W power supply probably won't fit where the 150W unit currently is?
I looked inside the case...there aren't any "expansion" slots for different-sized units.
Much appreciated! :)
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Can you take a picture of your current power supply and hows it arranged in the case? Or maybe measure how much room you have from the back of the case to to back od the CD rom's ? . What dell do you have Model and name . maybe i can look it up .
that 9500pro might be alot better once it has the correct power supply . it really needs something over 300 watts
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38ruk, thanks for taking the time to look at this!
the PC is a Dell Dimension 8250 -- purchased almost 4 years ago now (wow---old in tech years).
there's about 3 inches between the end of the current power supply and the CD & DVD units. There's very little room between the power supply and the green thing that you see there, which channels the air from the fan directly onto the CPU.
sorry...only have a cell phone camera:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1149448471_photo_060406_001.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1149448485_photo_060406_002.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1149448496_photo_060406_003.jpg)
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which 1600 was tested Ruk ???
I saw a test done at anatech <--(i think ) and the 1600 512mb was a nice step above the x800 (now i dont remember if it was the 800gto or not)
but i think there bolth great cards for agp (ive got the x800 in my 64bit pc at work and it does the job nicely )
(the 1600 is 199.00 the 800gto is 179.00 at crucial ) not to bad , i paid 250 for my 800
A quick note about saffire cards ... saffire makes alot of cards they make cards for the other manufuturing card retailers also .. they also "had a bad habbit of handing out substandard cards at one point" (thats why i still wont buy from them) i dont know if there below standard anymore of if they fixed there quality control ...
now about the powersupply ... i think your just reading one rail worth of wattage its most likely a 250-350 watt and hopefully seperate rails .
my rule in powersupplys is like old stereo's If its "Heavy as hell" its gonna be good .
is this your case Tbolt ???
(http://www.flightsim.com/review/dell8250/dimen_8250_back.jpg)
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/dell8250.htm (http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/dell8250.htm)
its big enough to put any atx p4 type powersupply if you need to .
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lol you beat me while i was posting ...:D
id agree with Ruk either the 800gto or the 1600 512 is the way to go .. anything more and the only way to get improvement is to build a 64bit pc.
your 2.4 with 533 rambus should run nicely for a couple more years.
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wow...good find, Rosco! that is EXACTLY my box.
(http://www.flightsim.com/review/dell8250/dimen_8250_back.jpg)
as you can see, i know nothing about power supplies. i yanked it earlier this morning and saw 150W printed on the power supply itself. will pull it out again and see what else it says.
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I have that box as one of my machines. The problem is that many third-party power supplies won't fit in it because the back of the case has metal over portions where many third-party power supplies have an on/off switch (like right under where the power cord socket is). Other than that, it would work -- there is room, and the screws are all in standard places.
You'd either need to find a power supply without external switches, or you'd need to cut the sheet metal on the back of the Dell case.
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Here is the review i read on the 1600 vs gto ,vs 850 . What i didnt notice was there is some overclocked results mixed in so the 20fps difference is between a clocked gto vs stock 1600 . It looks to me that the 1600 is still bettered by the gto in most cases , but its a 256 model . IF it is a 150w power supply , enduro might be good with what he has once that 9500 is running with a good psu . If i remember right wasnt there some 9500's that you could run at 9700 specs? hehe
38
http://www.digital-daily.com/video/x1600_x800_6600gt/index05.htm
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Enduro , that looks like a standard size power supply . As brooke mentioned you will have to cut the back of the dell box to accept a rocker type power switch so you can run basically any type of power supply , or search for a psu with out the switch . I have a known good antec 430w true power in the closet (its pretty heavy Roo) hehe . It's a good PSU that was about 100 bucks when i bought it (2 years ago) . IT does have a switch on the back thou , and has a 20amp 12+v rail so it will run all the new cards without issue . I dont mind donating it to the "cause " if you get in a bind .
38
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ive seen the overclocks on bolth cards ..
x800gto smokes the others in the pci/sli set up ..
in the agp set up the 1600 512, vs 800 gto is very close less then 1000 apart in the mark03
x800 has more reviews and has been out longer . i'll let Ruk win this time ... tee hee
(actually we're not compeating ...we're just tossing up what we know and have read /seen )
remember not all tests can be a true judge because of the hardware differences . Some cards can provide better performance because they match your paticular hardware better .now on a lighter note .... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6405149872126763049&q=budweiser)
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oopsi i was gonna add the Ram used on a card can make or brake it in the tests
thats one thing if you pay close attention too you can see a huge diff between the same card and diff manufacturers .. (you agree Rukie ???)
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
oopsi i was gonna add the Ram used on a card can make or brake it in the tests
thats one thing if you pay close attention too you can see a huge diff between the same card and diff manufacturers .. (you agree Rukie ???)
Definitely , i agree with u always Roo 8) . That review i linked to is really all i could find on the X1600 . Who knows how it compares to others or if its drivers were mature enought to see the benefits of the new card . The price of the gto2 is what i really like , @ 139 after rebate it a great bang for the buck card . hehe I win I win yaaayyy. lol 38
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here Rukie
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2717&p=3 (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2717&p=3)
i saw another review somewere hereeee but kinda spaced were it is ..
its a very capable card (x1600) with a little ocing w/ omega's i bet it will rock as a bang per buck card also .
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Good review Roo , i see that the X1600 tested is an XT . That would explain the performance difference between the two different write ups , the one i show was a plain jane 1600 . I do agree about the bang for the buck , the gto2 and 1600 have a nice spot it the sub 200 dollar range .
Roo , 38
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Originally posted by 38ruk
Enduro , that looks like a standard size power supply . As brooke mentioned you will have to cut the back of the dell box to accept a rocker type power switch so you can run basically any type of power supply , or search for a psu with out the switch . I have a known good antec 430w true power in the closet (its pretty heavy Roo) hehe . It's a good PSU that was about 100 bucks when i bought it (2 years ago) . IT does have a switch on the back thou , and has a 20amp 12+v rail so it will run all the new cards without issue . I dont mind donating it to the "cause " if you get in a bind . 38
thanks for the offer, ruk. I appreciate that. :)
I don't mind cutting the metal if needed. it won't look pretty, though. :lol
considering it's possible that my current power supply is pushing more juice than I thought it was, I think I'll just buy a video card and install it. if I experience any computer freezes or total loss of power, I'll shop for power supplies.
now, I just need to decide on the card...
38ruk's suggestion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102609
(only $169, but am I getting what I pay for?)
silat's suggestion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102492
(I think that's it--350W power supply recommended)
eagl's suggestion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130275
(definitely requires a minimum of 350W power supply)
68DevilM's suggestion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102017
(300W power supply required)
I'm stuck at this point. :confused: hehehe
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Ok out of those 4 , the 7800 is too much of a card for your machine , you wont be able to take it with you to your next box , so it will be kinda wasted on the 2.4ghz cpu .
The X800XT (16 pipes) is a good choice , but the one you found is way too expensive because its an all in wonder. If you could find one cheaper , i would do it .
The X850 pro (12pipes) isnt much different from the GTO2 that i linked to, between 5-8% faster . The difference is in the core and memory clocks , the x850 is alittle higher . The power requirements are the same , newegg has 300w for the x850 which is 350w everywhere else .
performance wise , the 7800 is the fastest followed by the x800XT , 850pro , x800gto2 . Good luck deciding . 38
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http://www.activewin.com/reviews/hardware/graphicscards/crucial_ati_x800_pro/index.shtml (http://www.activewin.com/reviews/hardware/graphicscards/crucial_ati_x800_pro/index.shtml)
theres some nice spec's ...
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I will disagree with the "too fast for your machine" statement regarding the 7800 card. Even when cpu limited, a faster vid card will let you turn on antialiasing because that takes almost no cpu work but dramatically improves graphics quality.
Even with an AMD 3700 and an nvidia 6800 GT, my computer is "cpu limited" in AH. Dropping screen resolution gives me ZERO framerate increase. By your logic, that means my video card is "too fast" for my cpu! Utter garbage. Instead of wishing I'd bought a cheaper vid card, I just enabled FSAA. On my computer, the sweet spot is 2xQ FSAA although I can live with 4X FSAA if I turn down the sliders a bit. In any case, running AH with FSAA enabled is a much better gaming experience than running without FSAA, and that's why I strongly say that there is no such thing as too fast of a vid card.
Yes if he was running a P3 800 with 128 meg ram, I'd suggest spending that money elsewhere. But otherwise the system specs suggest that he'll be able to run the game just fine at 1024x768 or 1280x1024, with 256 or 512 textures, and 4x FSAA, and as long as he keeps the detail sliders down to a reasonable level, he'll get great framerates with very nice image quality.
It's always seemed to me that how far you can move the detail sliders is more dependent on cpu power than vid card power, as long as you have a reasonably modern vid card. So drop the sliders a bit (who really cares what's on the ground anyhow?), pump up the screen resolution, and run 4x or better FSAA. That gives you great framerates and a beautifully smooth image. The better the vid card, the more FSAA you can use.
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I'm enjoying watching you guys discuss this topic as I'm learning a lot.
I should say WHY I want to upgrade something.
My FR is in the 70's when there is no air traffic--although, my sliders are set so that I never see the shell casings that apprarenly fall from the wings now-a-days. If there are only 2 or 3 a/c around, my frames are playable in the high 20's-50's. But, as soon as I approach an area that is inundated with a/c (4 or more, in my case), my FR drops into the slide-show range.
Maybe I should be considering more RAMBUS to fix this, instead? Or, will a beefier video card do the trick? What do you guys think?
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He will be able to run 2X or 4X AA with any of these cards , i ran 4X with my x800pro with out issue . So why spent the extra money on the 7800 when these other cards will do AA just fine? My utter garbage opinion is just that, an opinion , but ill stand by it .
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Fair enuf 38ruk :)
Enduro,
You may want to try messing with the sliders and texture size settings some more to see if that helps. The same goes with the screen resolution, if you have the option. My LCD is 1280x1024 so I'm stuck with that resolution, but if you have CRT then you have choices. Maybe try a higher resolution and FSAA along with trying out other settings. You might find one setting that evens out your framerates without having to buy expensive hardware for an old system.
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" without having to buy expensive hardware for an old system."
Thats kinda were we were going here .....ere ere ere ....
A great card without spending mega $$$$ that will increase game performance with Tbolts hardware...
Otherwise he just may as well step up and get a 64bit pc and get it over with .
my slow 2500+ barton w/9600 pro runs 85fps and never ever dipped below 30fps in the hugest nastiest... planes trains and auto's flying everywere type furballs .
my secret is to keep the used memory in the game at 20% below max amount in the huge furballs, or at 66% in normal open sky type flight ... adjust sliders down til its about that and the game plays nice on any pc.
hell Tbolt could just do some driver/game setting tweeking and get some improvement ... but some of the 9500/9700's were on the weak side
like what is it running at .. 250 300 350 x ram speed ... ect ect
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Yea, Roo.
Silat and 38ruk took the time to speak with eachother over the phone & came to an agreement that this Radeon X800GTO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102609) card would provide improvement in performance w/out wasting $ on a box that is somewhat substandard. Agreed?
Will make the purchase later this afternoon. :)
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eyecandy!!!!, eyecandy,
never seen the rounds of tanks hit the dirt in front of you before and see the plume of dust it creates now, or is that just the new patch....?
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okay, thanks for the input, guys! :) seriously.
i just purchased the card that 38ruk recommended for my system after Silat even agreed. everyone had great ideas. but, for my older system that will eventually have to be replaced anyway, this card will do fine:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102609
paid for overnight delivery; so, I hope to install it this weekend. (I'm a fan of FEDEX. hehehe)
thanks again!!!
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I just got this card too!
So far it is fantastic and there is a noticable difference when you unlock the extra 4 pipes.
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Originally posted by Pollock
I just got this card too!
So far it is fantastic and there is a noticable difference when you unlock the extra 4 pipes.
Great to hear, Pollock! :)
Do you have a web page that gives instructions on how to unlock the doo-hickies that you're talking about? :confused: hehe
nevermind. I guess this is what you're talking about: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=10955&page=16
:)
Thanks,
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I think you need to go back to the power supply issue. I think Roo's wrong on this one. I think it *IS* very possible that your PSU is 150W. My 5-year old machine had a 175W PSU, my sister's has a 150W, and it's only 3 years old! Companies like Dell, HP, and Gateway get away with REALLY cheap PSUs.
There should be a sticker with lots of numbers on it. There should be a listing of "max continuous output" or "total output" something like that. It will be the highest number on the list. Example: My current one says 450W (-ish).
If you really DO have a 150W (very likely, with such an old case) then you're not going to get anything from any modern video card -- you just won't have the juice to run them at full power. It would be like underclocking them, all the time.
EDIT: Go back to the sticker. This is one example. Often each manufacturer will have their own layout for displaying this. In this case (pulled randomly off the web) I have circled the max power listed.
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/psu.jpg)
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I'm sort of suspicious if its a 150watt , Krusty .
I think thats just one rail . witch would be probely correct.
Ive got a stack of power supplys here out of 233,266,800 mhz Pent 2's and 3's they start at 200 watt and end at 300 watt (6 total from dells and HP's)
a 150watt total wouldnt even fire my 1.3ghz pc .. let alone a 2.4 pent
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well one of my sisters has a 1.4GHz celeron or something or other (way obsolete) that has a 150W. My old PC before I upgraded had a 175W. Another sister of mine has a sub-200W PSU (can't remember specifics right now) and it's not that old.
A lot of those built-in ones are really low, which is why I asked him to revisit the issue and check again.
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if it doesnt have the suds it will just go POP .. and then he'll have to run out and grab a good antec / enermax ... ect type ps ..
I popped 2 ps's in my barton pc .. so its not that big of a deal.
Is your Sis's pc a compaq perhaps ?? they're famous for substandard left over parts .... i think they were still selling 486's in 2002 as new pc's
my 550mhz p-2 has a 145watt , its a HP w/ onboard video. shorty stack ect.
my 2.4 ghz pent 4/ti4600 needed a 350 watt to run ..
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Good call, Krusty.
I checked...Max output = 250W -- not enough juice for the video card that FEDEX delivered earlier today.
38ruk,
Thanks for the offer on the PSU. Silat referred me to a couple of companies that offer units that are made to fit in my box; so, I think I'll just go with one of those companies.
First option:
360W unit for $80 (http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S36D&view=about)
Second option: 300W unit for $44 (http://www.affordablesurplus.com/dell-ps-5251-2d-power-supply.asp) (must open this link in IE for some reason)
Any other suggestions are welcome--would prefer to not cut the box if I don't have to.
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Look for a sale here or there. I snagged a 450-475W PSU for 5.00. You read that right, for a fiver. It was a 1-day only sale on newegg. I did a little checking, read the reviews. The thing has been solid ever since I put it in, so I think I lucked out.
EDIT: Not counting shipping. I had a larger order so it shipped with the rest
I'm not saying you will find a $5 PSU, but look for a sale here and there. Those things can get expensive.
Roo: We shied away from Compaqs many years back. One sis has an HP (about 150-175W) the other has a Dell I think (unknown W, but under 200).
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The Dell Dimension 8250 is listed as having a 250 W power supply. Not sure what the card needs that you are considering.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Roo: We shied away from Compaqs many years back. One sis has an HP (about 150-175W) the other has a Dell I think (unknown W, but under 200).
Good move Krusty ... I pritty much toss every compaq in the trash ... Hp's arnt to bad .. and some of the dells are ok ... even the older gateways had alot of good parts Asus mb's ect
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Hello, everyone. :)
I installed the new RADEON X800GTO today even though I'm still using the OEM 250W power supply. I even used the Trixx overclocking utility that came with the video card. The system seems to be stable.
Am currently using CATALYST 6.5 drivers right off the ATI web site.
With AH2 settings left totally untouched, my in-game performance is somewhat improved at the moment. What I'm wondering is...do you think my performance would improve even more with a bigger power supply unit? I don't hear or see any signs that power may be an issue.
Notice the unused memory on the video card. :huh :lol
I'm not done tinkering with everything. Wanted to see if anyone thinks that a more powerful power supply would increase the video card's performance.
btw, if the video card has only 256MB onboard, why is AH2 reporting 384M?
Thanks!
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1150587535_trixx.jpg)
Old Vid Card:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1150586678_ahss43.jpg)
New Vid Card:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1150586702_ahss83.jpg)
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leave it alone ... the vid mem is that way cause your not preloaded there ..
ive tried the preload on the card befor .. i didnt like it .
now run the game for awile,,,, fly the terrain ... they did something in the last few patches that has slowed the game up. i had to bump my slider down a touch and im not at 85fps as much .... i blame it on the removal of our beloved ewe's ..
39fps isnt to bad in the most evil furbals thats were im at ... 36---49 avg in the heavy heavy
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HTC has mentioned that you shouldn't believe the memory info in the ctrl I screen -- that it displays incorrectly for some reason. That's why it says you have 300+MB of vidmem :)
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I hear ya, Rosco.
Krusty,
You were talking about the PSU earlier. Do you know if my card's performance would increase if I installed a 360W (400W peak) PSU?
Or, is this just wishful thinking? :)
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I don't think that a bigger power supply would change your graphics card's speed. It would only help if you were having crashes due to the power supply's voltage sagging under load from the graphics card.
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Enduro , 39 fps with all that background smoke is pretty good considering . You might want to try the 4.12 omega drivers , out of all the ones i tested for my x800 they were the best .
Here is alittle driver comparison i did awhile ago , i would say its still relevent due to the fact that the newer 6XX series driver prolly arent optimized for the X800 series cards , they are prolly geared toward the newer generation of ati cards .
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153309&highlight=driver
these didnt auto download for me , i had to allow the DL at the security bar at the top of Internet Explorer .
4.12 link : http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=Files&go=cat&dwn_cat_id=14&go=giveme&dwn_id=145
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okay, thanks guys.
am downloading the omega drivers now, 38ruk. i used omega drivers for my old card and loved 'em. so, i look forward to using these as well as "opening the extra pipes." (not totally sure how, but will figure that one out later.)
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Enduro, I would be worried if you had less than 200W. If you have 250W, I say use it until you *really* need more power.
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cc Krusty. thanks.
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Well, not liking this card much. Hey, it's okay...when it comes to PC's, it's always Plug 'n Pray. :D
Performance in-game isn't much better than my previous ATI 9500Pro/9700. And, there's some quirks with this card that I just didn't need to deal with before.
Am considering returning the card--either for a refund or to exchange for another card.
Either the mid-range or high-end Crucial cards (http://www.crucial.com/store/listmodule.asp?family=VIDEO%20CARD&tabid=AGP%20Graphics%20Card) + a bigger power supply would cost less than this eVGA Geforce 7800GS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130275#DetailSpecs) + a bigger power supply.
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If the performance of the card in game isnt much better than your 9500pro , than you have a bottleneck somewhere . The X800 gto is leaps and bounds better than a 9500pro so if your not getting much performance gain than something isnt able to feed the card . If your not happy , i would send it back .
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Originally posted by 38ruk
If the performance of the card in game isnt much better than your 9500pro , than you have a bottleneck somewhere . The X800 gto is leaps and bounds better than a 9500pro so if your not getting much performance gain than something isnt able to feed the card . If your not happy , i would send it back .
i blame bloody Dell. :D
performance was slightly improved. i just think i might be able to get better performance for a little more money, ya know?
(maybe it's just wishful thinking, but i'm willing to try in order to enjoy AH2 for another year w/ this box)
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whats ur fps in furballs now ?? if its in the 30-39 area or better thats probely the best ur gonna get .. you should see monitor hz up at alt just cruising ..
AE if your mon is at 85hz u should see 80-85 hz with that card ... if not you may have processes killing it off or something else ..
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on the squad BBS, Rosco reminded me about the 4.12 drivers. and, I do remember seeing good FR's when those drivers were installed. the problem, though, was that the graphics quality, at the time, was very poor. edges were very blocky/edgy. but, i'll re-install 4.12 again later and try to work with them.
thanks for the reminder.
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Hello every1, thx much for ur erudite input, as I'm learning much from ur dis-
cussion/suggestions, I'm not trying to steal this thread nor bump it, but I've a question re Graphics Display Cards.
I've a Dell Dimension 4300 cmptr, with 512 mb RAM. with GeFx 5200 video
card, running on Nvidia 61.77, the cmptr is 1.9 Gigabytes, I've updated to Nvidia 84.43. The reason is trying 2b to date w/video graphics display cards.
Performance is great....no probs....fps betwix 25-40, however, I've noticed that my computer slowed down a lot, not in the game, but overall! I've fol-
lowed Skuzzy's stickon advice re. cleaning the computer, but it's still noti-
ceably slow.
Any advice as to what would cause the slowdown? Thx everybody T:aok
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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How has it slowed down -- boot time, time to launch Outlook, etc.?
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It's slow at startup, approx 3-4 min, slow in showing webpages, slow in
opening links (Outlook Express) & other Urls, hyperlinks, slow in logging off.
Tried "EnditAll" , sys. still slow. :(
Noticed that my computer's fan is quiet, generally hear a gentle hum, stuck
my palm in front of fan & detected no blown air. Shall have to open my computer & clean out the dust. However the ebbing of my puter speed has been going on since 3 wks hence.
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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Enduro,
just looking at what you posted. You should think about boosting your system RAM a bit.
You would most likely see a fair improvement if you boost your ram to at least 1GB. More would be better.
Happy1,
I would recommend for starters that you go back to the 61.77 drivers for that video card. They are the best recommended drivers for the 5XXX series cards. Lots of posts about this here.
As far as the computer slowing down, have you downloaded anything new lately? when was the last time you did a sweep for spyware / viruses etc?
How many processes do you show running in the task manager?
Have you run disk cleaner, and defragmented your HD lately?
cheers,
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
Enduro,
just looking at what you posted. You should think about boosting your system RAM a bit.
You would most likely see a fair improvement if you boost your ram to at least 1GB. More would be better.
cc, RTR. I've been thinking about that. RAMBUS isn't cheap, though.
I'll keep it in mind.
Thank you.
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I was using a Dell Dimension 4300 up until this year & I upgraded the CPU to a 2.8GHZ from a 1.8GHZ (P-4) & upgraded the AGP card to a 6800LE (nvidia) I was already running a gig of ram & that is the mobo's max supported ram.
I had frame rates that would bottom out to 1fps & had a high of 30fps when I was by myself in flight.
After the upgrades I got 45fps alone in flight & it only dropped down to around 10fps when it got busy.
The Dell is a good machine for the price, but it is a proprietary machine, there is only so much you can upgrade on one (one like my 6 year old system that is); better than HP/Compaq by a little & way better than a gateway.
My Dell is still kicking with no breakdowns after all these years.
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hits self on head ......I just remembered one other trick ...
ok back when Mrs roo had her old HP pc ... if you loaded windows from the HP restore/installer cd she would get like 30 extra junk processes loaded on ..
I took and pulled all the drivers from the cd and placed just those on a seperate cd and then i formated it using my win98 cd ... it tripled its performance and gave it a cleaner install .
if you cant get the drivers off the cd then just go to the manufacturer's website and get them from there .
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Hello RTR & Brenjen, thx much for ur advice re my Dell 4300, did as per ur advice RTR & Driver Cleaner'd Nvidia 84.43 replacing it with Omega Drivers
61.77 which I saved, did I notice a difference in my PC? Seems like I shaved a minute off my slow responses.
Regarding sweeps of my PC, I do it on a weekly basis, utilizing CleanUp,
Ad-aware SE, CWShredder, Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster, AVG, Windows
Update, Clean Disk & Systems Restore. The last sweep was 2 days ago.
I defrag my puter on a weekly basis.
Presently I've used 7.02 GB with 11.60 GB free of 18.62 GB. The only in-
tensive usage of kb is Aces High II, all other pgms are minimal. Undoubtedly I'm running pgms in the background of which I've no know-
ledge, but how? or by what pgm can I seperate what I NEED running on the computer vs junk?? How do I identify junk pgms from the good ones??
Btw, how do u use Task Manager? How many pgms S/b running & which do I get rid of? Thx for ur kind assistance :)
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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Happy, hit cntrl alt and delete.
This will bring up your task manager.
Click on the processes tab. It will show you a list of all the processes currently running on your computer. Before I launch AH I get them down to 15 processes running. Be carefull what you turn off!
There are a couple of programs you can safely download to help you here. I use FSautostart. (enditall is another one that some are using). FSauto start will explain each process to you and advise you if it is safe to turn off.
Be careful here, some stuff you need to keep running. I hesitate to advise you on what to keep running, or shut down. FSautostart is a good beginning though.
Lastly if you have anything running that you aren't sure of, a quick search on google usually does it for me.
As far as spyware etc. I occasionally run trend micro's online scanner. Sometimes it picks up stuff the others don't (and vica versa).
cheers, and hope some of this makes sense!
RTR
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I will not advise you of what to turn off myself, just google task manager processes & you will come up with plenty of sites that will guide you. If you shut down something you shouldn't I would feel responsible that's the only reason I don't want to give advice.
20 to 21 processes for Windows XP is pretty standard & I would even say normal. You can get the task manager by right clicking the task bar (the blue bar at the bottom of your screen) & selecting "task manager".
& good luck
Edit: if you can safely get the processes down to 15 that's really good. RTR
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His machine shouldn't be that slow even if there are a fair number of processes running (unless they are total junkware/malware).
He said earlier that he doesn't think his fan is running. Well, if your fan isn't running, some processors, when they heat up, will switch to much lower clock speed. I'd check that your fan is running and fix it if not.
Beyond that, I'd install all the latest drivers for the hardware you have (video and sound card) -- not the ones from the manufacturer's or OEM's CD, but the latest from whoever made the chipset for it (like nVidia or Creative, etc.).
If that doesn't work, I'd do a fresh install of the operating system.
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RTR, Brenjen & Brooke
:)
Thx much for the additional info, I'll act on ur advice tomorrow & shall keep u posted on my results. Ur advice makes perfect sense to me.
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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Greetings, well I've d/l'd "FSAutostart", checked Task Manager & discover- ed that I'm running 47 pgms in the background :mad: that plus my clog-
ged up fan on my PC! No wonder my puter's slow.
Now the task of seperating the good, the bad & the ugly begins :)
Cheers & thx much 4 ur patience & advice
Happy1 :D
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Finally, all done, TY to the people helping me, my PC is is faster, timewise
1/2 minute - 1 minute. Logon/logoff 1 to 1 and a half minutes, occasionally 2 minutes, but rarely. :aok
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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Guys, thank you all for your help.
I decided to keep the video card as the problems I'm experiencing in-game are not mine alone. Seems like a lot of people are seeing the screen stuttering that I see--even with the FR counter in the 50's.
I just reformatted my HD, too. O man, I love how well a newly reloaded PC works. :D