Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TexMurphy on June 02, 2006, 10:38:05 AM
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Seriously guys,
I was in the MA and the whinage about how skilless the enemies are was bigger then ever.
The influx of new players has been quite high lately and does anyone expect the new players to be aces over night?
Do you think new pilots know about ACMs and/or E-management??
No they dont but they do all the can to get their share of kills.
If no one teaches them to fly they will AH is gonna become even more segmented between a few top aces and a huge mass of pilots that flat turn, ho and run. This is gonna result in AH getting drained of all the good pilots because the skill level gets too low and the game not challanging enough.
If we want pilots to evolve and become good and challanging adversaries that are fun to fight then... WE NEED TO TEACH THEM HOW TO FLY...
Next time you see a enemy flying like a dweeb who doesnt have a clue... dont scream over ch:200.. whisper him and give him a few tips on how he could improve his flying...
By helping the dweebs your actually helping your self to a game with better air fights and more challanging fights.
If the new players dont evolve as pilots you wount evolve either as there will be no one around pushing your skills to the test.
Tex.
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I continue to hope AH resorts to canned text messages one day to eliminate childish comments on vox and text channels
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Not a bad idea and I have done this on occasion ... some take the advise and most don't.
I think what we are dealing with here is the instant gradification "Doom" crowd. They take the short path or path of least resistance to their gradification which is simply to blow something up.
I have shown this game to all my boys and it doesn't do anything for them. They all own a PS2 ... XBox ... etc. They go out and buy a game and the first thing they do is go online and get all the known cheat codes. I ask them why ? ... "So I don't have to go thru all the crap to actually win the game".
They don't want to go thru the learning curve to actually gain knowledge to become more proficient at the game. They want ALL the super-duper weapons or cars or whatever it is that they need, instantly, inorder to make the game easier for them to blow watermelon up or win.
The impetus to learn has to come from the student. The student needs to seek out knowledge. When I started this game I was no different than anyone else who starts this game ... I knew squat and constantly got my arse handed to me. I decided that that was gonna change ... I sought out people who I thought could help me ... and they did. I still get my arse handed to me, but not as much as when I first started this game.
Pop into the TA ... for the most part, there is where you will find those who seek knowledge.
You can lead a horse to water ... but ya can't make him drink.
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"You can lead a horse to water... but a pencil must be lead."
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Not a bad idea and I have done this on occasion ... some take the advise and most don't.
I think what we are dealing with here is the instant gradification "Doom" crowd. They take the short path or path of least resistance to their gradification which is simply to blow something up.
I have shown this game to all my boys and it doesn't do anything for them. They all own a PS2 ... XBox ... etc. They go out and buy a game and the first thing they do is go online and get all the known cheat codes. I ask them why ? ... "So I don't have to go thru all the crap to actually win the game".
They don't want to go thru the learning curve to actually gain knowledge to become more proficient at the game. They want ALL the super-duper weapons or cars or whatever it is that they need, instantly, inorder to make the game easier for them to blow watermelon up or win.
The impetus to learn has to come from the student. The student needs to seek out knowledge. When I started this game I was no different than anyone else who starts this game ... I knew squat and constantly got my arse handed to me. I decided that that was gonna change ... I sought out people who I thought could help me ... and they did. I still get my arse handed to me, but not as much as when I first started this game.
Pop into the TA ... for the most part, there is where you will find those who seek knowledge.
You can lead a horse to water ... but ya can't make him drink.
They don't have a choice in this game, there are no cheat codes here and no quick happy path to learning everything in a few days. I've been playing for 5 years and am still learning new things. Perhaps they need a larger training Staff for the training Arena? Not sure how many trainers they have now but with the large influx of new peeps you would think the trainers would be understaffed and unable to give any quality training to the multitudes (this is not taking away from the trainers, I'm sure they do a great job).
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Seriously guys,
I was in the MA and the whinage about how skilless the enemies are was bigger then ever.
The influx of new players has been quite high lately and does anyone expect the new players to be aces over night?
Do you think new pilots know about ACMs and/or E-management??
No they dont but they do all the can to get their share of kills.
If no one teaches them to fly they will AH is gonna become even more segmented between a few top aces and a huge mass of pilots that flat turn, ho and run. This is gonna result in AH getting drained of all the good pilots because the skill level gets too low and the game not challanging enough.
If we want pilots to evolve and become good and challanging adversaries that are fun to fight then... WE NEED TO TEACH THEM HOW TO FLY...
Next time you see a enemy flying like a dweeb who doesnt have a clue... dont scream over ch:200.. whisper him and give him a few tips on how he could improve his flying...
By helping the dweebs your actually helping your self to a game with better air fights and more challanging fights.
If the new players dont evolve as pilots you wount evolve either as there will be no one around pushing your skills to the test.
Tex.
Okay Tex, I know your going to flame me to infinity here but.......................
Aren't you taking yourself a bit too seriously? If people want to get better , they'll get better. They'll invest the time. This seems more like a round about self back patting. The ace lord on high showing benevolence to all the little people. I really don't mean to be disrespectful , but sheesh thats quite a load of ego there for a game.
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SlapShot
What you are saying is very true.
But I do think that there actually are quite alot of new pilots who do want to fly a plane as good as a plane can be flown.
The qoute "The more I learn the more I know that I dont know anything" is a very applicable one.
If you dont know anything about flying a plane other then to up it turn left right, shoot and get that kill you dont know that there is more to it. If you dont know there is more to it then its kind of hard to seek help.
There are three type of new players that we get.
1. WB/IL2/CFS players these are good pilots no need to worry.
2. BF1942 players, these are the blow up stuff pilots.
3. History channel players.
The ones who have seen a bit on TV about WW2 warbirds and the HTC add dont know dilt about flying. These are the ones that should be trained. I also dont know if these pilots know how to seek help, where to find it or that it can be found.
The BF42 crowed will a) ask, b) hoard or c) leave. Fine.
Tex
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Originally posted by Shifty
Okay Tex, I know your going to flame me to infinity here but.......................
Aren't you taking yourself a bit too seriously? If people want to get better , they'll get better. They'll invest the time. This seems more like a round about self back patting. The ace lord on high showing benevolence to all the little people. I really don't mean to be disrespectful , but sheesh thats quite a load of ego there for a game.
Sure it is egoistic of me. I do want less noob level pilots and more avg level and up pilots in the game. I want it because it makes me a better pilot. Im lazy by nature and if someone doesnt push me to make an effort I dont do my best. But I do like to be pushed I like to evolve be it as a climber, golf player, squash player, skier or virtual pilot.
There is another thing I do hate and its whining. I mean come on waste so much energy whining on others. Its annoying makes me in a bad mood when I need to listen to it.
So if people help out other people instead of whine at them they do me two favors in one.
Tex
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Originally posted by Shifty
Okay Tex, I know your going to flame me to infinity here but.......................
Aren't you taking yourself a bit too seriously? If people want to get better , they'll get better. They'll invest the time. This seems more like a round about self back patting. The ace lord on high showing benevolence to all the little people. I really don't mean to be disrespectful , but sheesh thats quite a load of ego there for a game.
Shifty, I thought I would get better on my own. I did to some extent. However, after playing for a few years, I went to the TA just for the heck of it. Ren did some plane match-ups with me and after a while, pointed out some very E wasting moves I was consistently making. Also explained a 'lift vector' to me.
I also got quite an education in the DA with some skilled guys in there. Not trainers per se, but still took the time to teach me 1 on 1.
I don't think it's ego. Ego are the guys who get on Channel 200 and pull the "Nice HOtard" to some numbers guy.
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I admit I have done my share of complaining. Yesterday (before 2.08) I got EXTREMELY frustrated I could not find a fight. Everyone was in late war planes running and jsut not putting up a fight at all. Then I had SEVERAL friendlies jump infront of me and kill the plane I actually worked to get behind. Nothing like flying a P47 against a NIK and getting low and slow only to have a Dora zoom by and kill the NIK in one easy pass after I worked over a minute to get an angle.
What happened to the days when if you saw 2 players fighting, you would either ask if they needed help or wait until the fight was over to engage. To me I saw little to no gain if I killed someone already on someone's 6, but if I won in a 1 on 1 fight in a bigger plane, I could say I was better. Now, it doesn't matter how good of a fighter you are. It is all about how good of a shot you are and how many kills you get. People with high K/D ratios think they are so good, but quite frankly suck.
Seems like a good idea to help new players, just frustrating that most new playes seem to be 8-14.
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Originally posted by Eagler
I continue to hope AH resorts to canned text messages one day to eliminate childish comments on vox and text channels
PERK CHANNEL 200
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How about we just ask Skuzzy for a forum to upload help files?
Then veteran players could contribute to a knowledge base in whatever way works for them. Some can discuss furball techniques, some can discuss how to make best use of various planes ... mission planning, devloping SA, wingman tactics ... etc etc
We have centuries worth of experience here, and hardly anything written down.
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Dude!
I actually got a kill yesterday and now you wanna teach the noobs how to fly?
I may never get a kill again :(
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To paraphrase the great Joe Satrapa...
Overall skill level is DOWN! Perk points are UP!
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Originally posted by 68Ripper
They don't have a choice in this game, there are no cheat codes here and no quick happy path to learning everything in a few days. I've been playing for 5 years and am still learning new things. Perhaps they need a larger training Staff for the training Arena? Not sure how many trainers they have now but with the large influx of new peeps you would think the trainers would be understaffed and unable to give any quality training to the multitudes (this is not taking away from the trainers, I'm sure they do a great job).
They do have a choice ... they can run around HOing anything and everthing in their path OR they can choose to go to the TA and learn how to dogfight. My point was that they (most) don't have the patience to learn ... they just want to blow watermelon up ... lamelessly.
You don't have to be a trainer to help someone in the TA. The MA sucked donkey nuts the other night so I waded into the TA. Roscoroo and I worked with about 4 different guys. Giving advise from what is a good plane to start to learn with ... to playing "drone" for them ... seeing if they can get on my 6 and seeing if they could stay there once they got on it ... to working on reversals and the "merge".
I had a good time and I think that I will be spending more time in there than I have done in the past ... Murdr was running the airspace that night and I think that the "give and take" was fruitfull.
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Avoid the HO'S then kill um!! we all could use some easy kills!!!!
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School IS out for the summer is most places in the U.S.which would explain the new influx of new guys. I think Silat still has some anti-teen powder and cream if you'd like some.
Besides turning them off the game because they get killed so much, what is wrong with skilless n00bs?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
They do have a choice ... they can run around HOing anything and everthing in their path OR they can choose to go to the TA and learn how to dogfight. My point was that they (most) don't have the patience to learn ... they just want to blow watermelon up ... lamelessly.
You don't have to be a trainer to help someone in the TA. The MA sucked donkey nuts the other night so I waded into the TA. Roscoroo and I worked with about 4 different guys. Giving advise from what is a good plane to start to learn with ... to playing "drone" for them ... seeing if they can get on my 6 and seeing if they could stay there once they got on it ... to working on reversals and the "merge".
I had a good time and I think that I will be spending more time in there than I have done in the past ... Murdr was running the airspace that night and I think that the "give and take" was fruitfull.
the trainers have a huge job to do ... It doesnt hurt to stop in now and then and Show the newbie's what its like to Cut the angles and have fun .
I get alot of them running the hangers after they have learned to take off ect . or As Slap and I did was Hold a Evil angle fight right there ...
they defentally got to see a great show . That alone excited a bunch of them to ask the "How" questions.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Sure it is egoistic of me. I do want less noob level pilots and more avg level and up pilots in the game. I want it because it makes me a better pilot. Im lazy by nature and if someone doesnt push me to make an effort I dont do my best. But I do like to be pushed I like to evolve be it as a climber, golf player, squash player, skier or virtual pilot.
There is another thing I do hate and its whining. I mean come on waste so much energy whining on others. Its annoying makes me in a bad mood when I need to listen to it.
So if people help out other people instead of whine at them they do me two favors in one.
Tex
Point taken.
I agree with you and Kamilyun both on the whineing. Too bad there is not a filter that squelches everybody on 200 for 5 mins once they are shot down.:)
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Ive got to chanell 200 rants....#1- When I am pathetically HO'd by a vet when its obvious my guns arnt blazing and im looking for a good merge...
#2- When dweebs run from my hurrimki!!! Im sorry but I will always call this one out...Its one thing to extend 3k, grab out and TRY and bnz me, but to run all the way home from the slowest plane in the game...argh that gets 2 me
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they aint running anywhere cav, its just you chugging along on those 8 pellet guns with an engine.
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Hey TexMurph, can only agree there.
BTW i have our two fights the other day filmed, you mind if i post them in help and training so they can be discussed? Looked pretty interesting on film.
ciao schutt
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Originally posted by cav58d
Ive got to chanell 200 rants....#1- When I am pathetically HO'd by a vet when its obvious my guns arnt blazing and im looking for a good merge...
#2- When dweebs run from my hurrimki!!! Im sorry but I will always call this one out...Its one thing to extend 3k, grab out and TRY and bnz me, but to run all the way home from the slowest plane in the game...argh that gets 2 me
It's never obvious your guns aren't blazing and you're looking for a good merge. I run without tracers and assume everyone else does until proven otherwise. If you're heading straight for me I assume you're going for the HO shot and react accordingly.
I've run from Hurricanes. You can't always know the reasons. Out of ammo, low on gas, shot up aircraft with significantly degraded performance...one of the key skills for landing aircraft is knowing when it's time to leave. Sometimes reversing at 3k on a hurri puts you in range of the horde behind him. Other times you're just not interested in killing one, or unsure of your ability to do so and not willing to take the risk.
The only thing ch. 200 complaints have in common is their futility. It might make you feel better, but all it does is reduce the signal to noise ratio. I still want the ability to squelch the channel entirely.
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Cav...whats worse is when you see a guy coming and you think isnt going to HO...but he has tracers off and whacks ya.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
PERK CHANNEL 200
hey email me!
navajoboy@uknightedstates.net
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I blame public schools and socialism.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Schutt please post them I wana see em!!!
Tex
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Originally posted by Schutt
Hey TexMurph, can only agree there.
BTW i have our two fights the other day filmed, you mind if i post them in help and training so they can be discussed? Looked pretty interesting on film.
ciao schutt
Originally posted by TexMurphy
Schutt please post them I wana see em!!!
Tex
"pretty interesting" is the understatement of the year!!!! They both looked like awesome fights. Good tactics and great flying on both parts!
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Originally posted by lazs2
I blame public schools and socialism.
I blame gun control:furious
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Originally posted by Puck
I still want the ability to squelch the channel entirely.
I could be wrong, but wouldnt taking "200" out of one of your channels solve this problem for you? 200 isnt a default station so I believe if you untune it- waaaaa-laaaaa....no more hearing me call out LA7's running from me....
You'll be back though....They all are.... You'll be back on 200 faster than Filth claiming he'll never play AH again =) lmao
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Anyone willing to fly directly at another armed craft deserves to be shot in the face, and I, for one, am more than happy to oblige.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Not a bad idea and I have done this on occasion ... some take the advise and most don't.
Ditto. When I come across someone who obviously doesnt know how to fly their plane correctly or keeps making the same mistake over and over I'll let em know Via Private message.
Most dont listen though.
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I've been picking it up as I go along. I never really have the time to devote much of the little I have to learning in the TA and I can't set aside time with my work schedule. I come here and read what people write on flying style. It took me a few months to realize what flaps and did and I'm only now learning how to use my rudder to gain advantage.
I think the reason why most new people get stuck in the Spit16 or 51D or LA7 is because they're fast and the flyer can usually just run from any fight. They like the Nikki because of the guns. Most of the new people will eventually find a better (ie low ENY value) plane to fly, but some never do.
I'd like to remind you all that you call a new "pilot" in an easy-mode plane a n00b, but you call an old hand in one an Ace. If given time and if that newbie makes an effort they could learn more. But agreed, gotta slow down on the HOs.
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2bighorn... socialism is gun control here...
You can teach these guys all you want but you can't fix the character flaws that make em do what they do in the first place.... best you can get em to do is pay their money every month. Be happy with that.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Anyone willing to fly directly at another armed craft deserves to be shot in the face, and I, for one, am more than happy to oblige.
I certainly understand this but when you find yourself in this situation & one angles away slightly for a clean merge & get shot in the face it really pizzes me off. Often times it's obvious that the guy is trying to avoid a nose to nose ho & many will still shoot you in the face.
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Originally posted by cav58d
I could be wrong, but wouldnt taking "200" out of one of your channels solve this problem for you? 200 isnt a default station so I believe if you untune it- waaaaa-laaaaa....no more hearing me call out LA7's running from me....
You'll be back though....They all are.... You'll be back on 200 faster than Filth claiming he'll never play AH again =) lmao
My mistake. I was thinking country channel. I haven't tuned 200 in a couple years.
I'd LOVE to squelch green.
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The TA has had some benifit from the change in the DA. There are more vets who stop in to polish up on duels. Many of them also are willing to work with or give advise to the newer players. So you can kill two birds with one stone so to speak. You can bring a squadie or friend to practice dueling in the TA, and also be on hand to help newer players if dueling is already something you're spending time at. Just sayin. Thanks for stopping by slap and roo.
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I don't know what the procedures are for becoming an official trainer these days, but maybe it'd help if there was something like a "Trainer Associate" program. Some way to flag veteran players willing to drop in once in a while as trainers, but not with God Privs, so the newbies in there knew that the resources were around.
If this tagging was carried over into the MA, that may also get some newbies asking vets for help. Note that if the flag carried over to the MA, the player should have the option to cloak it. Otherwise flying AH becomes work all the time for someone who has volunteered to help.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I don't know what the procedures are for becoming an official trainer these days, but maybe it'd help if there was something like a "Trainer Associate" program. Some way to flag veteran players willing to drop in once in a while as trainers, but not with God Privs, so the newbies in there knew that the resources were around.
If this tagging was carried over into the MA, that may also get some newbies asking vets for help. Note that if the flag carried over to the MA, the player should have the option to cloak it. Otherwise flying AH becomes work all the time for someone who has volunteered to help.
Dok, theres a whole bunch of "trainer associates" :). You dont need to be flagged - as soon as you go to the training arena and dont ignore the text buffer, maybe even say: "Hello, anyone got any questions, press / to open radio", youll very soon be swamped with questions and requests for practice. Trust me, i can tell a few stories ;).
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Schutt please post them I wana see em!!!
Tex
Done!!! (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179322)