Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kev367th on June 05, 2006, 01:21:11 PM
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Went to the DA with tinmanX (tks) for some collision tests.
My ping - 27ms
His ping - 249ms
Test conditions - tried both in old models (IL2s), both in new models (P38)
Then swapped one in new other in old and vice-versa.
Fly into a head on collision. (10-15 attempted)
Results - 100% of the time I take either catastrophic damage or outright pilot killed.
tinmanx - survived on at least 3 occassions with damage that would enable him to fly home.
Kills - 100% tinman got kill on me even though no shots fired.
New/old model made no difference.
Extra bit - It is extremely difficult to actually fly into a deliberate head on collision.
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Try non-HO ones. That might make a difference. If he's got such a high ping, you're "further out" than he is, and you've already rammed him and died and he just hits your corpse.
Try tail rammings, and maybe side-to-side merges (like close formation bumps).
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Be nice for a few guys to try this and post their results also, see if we can get a 'trend'.
Spoke to Skuzzy, be nice if you could film them also.
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WOuld be willing to help with this...
Suggestion -- when testing, have one plane in front at slw speed, constant direction. The second, from higher alt and speed, dives in as if making a firing run. (For several reasons, goons would be great for this test; lower speeds, easier course coordination, no guns to confuse things).
The closure speed with this approach FAR lower, making it easier to make the collisions happen, and the course angles leave much less problem with the collider's remnants being subsequently hit by the innocent collid-ee.
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Make sure to take turns causing the collision.
If you are always the one to collide with him, you will always be the one to "lose".
You will find that the person causing the collision is always the loser and that ping times do not matter, FYI. I have tested it in the past.
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Kev, I'm assuming you both got the messages "you have collided" and {gameid} collided with you?
Here is another test. One person deliberatly try to ram and the other person tries to avoid the collision. This test may put to rest all the conspiracy theories. I would be willing to participate.
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Kev is there a point to this post?
HiTech
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Originally posted by Karnak
Make sure to take turns causing the collision.
If you are always the one to collide with him, you will always be the one to "lose".
You will find that the person causing the collision is always the loser and that ping times do not matter, FYI. I have tested it in the past.
huh?
takes two to tango ...
I lose 95% of all collisions I am involved in .. the other guy usually flies away
we hit each other .. by accident .. he does not mean to hit me nor I him .. I blame it on by cable modem connection and low ping
I'll take losing collides and a great hi speed connection over a crappy conn and winning collides anyday :)
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Originally posted by hitech
Kev is there a point to this post?
HiTech
yes! why havent we got the B-29 in AH?!?!?1 :mad: :furious :mad: :furious :mad:
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NOOKS!!!!11!! [/COLOR]
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Originally posted by Eagler
huh?
takes two to tango ...
I lose 95% of all collisions I am involved in .. the other guy usually flies away
we hit each other .. by accident .. he does not mean to hit me nor I him .. I blame it on by cable modem connection and low ping
I'll take losing collides and a great hi speed connection over a crappy conn and winning collides anyday :)
Only you caused that collision. You are trying to apply real world expectations onto an event that does not follow the same rules.
What I mean, is fly along level and have the other guy slide into your airplane on his FE and then try the reverse.
When I tested it the person flying straight and level was fine in every case. He always saw the other fighter pass some distance from him and then suddenly lose a wing/tail/explode/ect.
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Docc & I were supposed to do a test like this, he never got in touch with me about it further. I suppose he just gave up.
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i was fighting blukitty a few weeks ago, i was behind him, he ended up on a hill, stopped, with no wings. As i flew over the top of him i got the message "Blukitty has collided with you".
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Your results are closer to fair than I would have expected based on all the collision whines I hear. My response to all HO whiners has always been silence or " don't let people Ho you if it bothers you." I will now treat the collision whiners the same way.
Gorski
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Karnak's right,
Fly wing formation and get a lock on speed & distance.
Example...Fencer will be a steady 17 yds off my wing at 4 o'clock according to his FE, while I show him 34 off my wing at the same time...
Now if Fencer were to slowly speed up a bit & slide over, he'll hit my plane on his FE and lose major parts while I see him fall to pieces when still 17 yds off my wing.
Do that 50 times, you'll get the same result each time.
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Originally posted by hitech
Kev is there a point to this post?
HiTech
Had been thinking about trying it for a while and had mentioned it in-game, a lot of guys were interested in what the results might be.
Was to see if high ping v low ping or hispeed v modem made any difference.
Preliminary would say there's no real difference on the outcome as far as damage, but there is a difference on who gets the kill, 100% in his favour. (even tho no rounds fired).
Granted was a relatively small number of 'runs'.
What I didnt post was how I managed to find a way to go into the collision and make him take damage and me none. (but would be very hard to do in the MA).
What did surprise me was how hard it was to deliberatly fly 'thru' each other.
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I'll take losing collides and a great hi speed connection over a crappy conn and winning collides anyday
CHA-CHING ... earth does contain some intelligent life forms.
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i remeber once i was flying then i stopped and was back in the tower
damn its all HT's fault
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outcome as far as damage, but there is a difference on who gets the kill, 100% in his favour
Ive posted that outcome about 5 times in past collision discusions. But it only makes a difference when you both get the you have collided message.
And you both are in a direct head on situation. Because in the other aspects it is almost impossible to both collide.
HiTech
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I fly P47N about 95% of the time, have dial-up with a consistent 190ms ping, and lose nearly every collision I'm in---standard thing is "Cpid has collided with you." "Cpid has killed you." As I fall to ground, I look back and typically watch him fly away. It is quite possible he fired right before the event and I took major damage..dunno. It's annoying somewhat, but not a major distraction. It just causes me to avoid Ho's and merges like the plague ( I always lose Ho's too;)
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So, can we assume from this test that the guy whose PC is updating his position, and receiving updates on everyone else's position, 9 times faster, is going to detect the same collision as everyone else, albeit a few milliseconds earlier?
Didn't we already know that?
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just turn on friendly collides and everyone will be so busy whining about that they'll forget about this one :)
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Originally posted by Karnak
Make sure to take turns causing the collision.
If you are always the one to collide with him, you will always be the one to "lose".
You will find that the person causing the collision is always the loser and that ping times do not matter, FYI. I have tested it in the past.
I don't buy it. I have been hit many times by overzeolous pilots from behind on overshoots & most times I die & they fly away.
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please test rearend collisions ... thats were i see a difference .... the plane that runs into my rear can fly away undamaged way to often ...
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:lol Eagler
Regarding rearendings: if you don't generate a "you have collided" message, then any and all damage you take is from weapons. You cannot, the way the game is coaded, take damage from someone else registering a collision. You can only take damage in a collision that occurs on your PC.
If you see someone fly away from a collision detected on their end (ie, you receive a "so and so collided with you" PM, they are damaged. The damage varies; not every collision, no matter what it looks like on your end, results in catastrophic failure. No one who registers a collision on their PC "flies away undamaged."
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MajWoody and Roscoroo,
You are to fixated on cause.
What happened in the scenario you both describe is that you rammed the front of his fighter with your tail. It only happened on your FE and there is no way he could have knowingly avoided it.
This is not an automobile accident report and direction of travel is completely, 100% irrelevant.
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It's not so much a collision, as it is a paradox of 2 dweebs attempting to occupy the same point in space at the same point in time.
But seriously, if they don't believe HiTech, we're wasting our time trying to convince them.
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Ahh, but it was fun.
No-one can accuse me off deliberatly trying to ram them now. Seeing Kev and I out there trying to deliberatly fly into each other was like watching Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder play tennis.
The definition of Endless Love.
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Seeing Kev and I out there trying to deliberatly fly into each other was like watching Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder play tennis.
ahh.. you have uncovered Air Traffic Controllers most guarded secret:
"The skies are big and planes are small"
:D
Bozon
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have system send messages to random players at random times "cpid has colided with you" ..trigger explosion sound .
everyone believes they have survived more collisions ..topic goes away=)
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I think all we showed is that in as far as damage is conscerned ping times make no difference.
Only difference was who got the kill, in our case tinmanx 100% of the time.
However there was one oddity -
On at least one occasion we both got the xxx has collided with you, but tinmanx received NO damage whatsoever. Me doing my usual nosedive to earth missing all sorts. Remember these are nose-nose through each other rams. These we didn't count and put it down to an aberation.
We tried a few nose/tail and as expected the guy at the rear died every time. On my FE he was between 200-400 out when damage started to occur.
Would have been nice to try other scenarios, just didn't have time.
As tinmanx said 'it was fun', and I'm sure he'll agree, extremely difficult.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
We tried a few nose/tail and as expected the guy at the rear died every time. On my FE he was between 200-400 out when damage started to occur.
Strange...flying the Yak, I routinely get inside 200 and have never had a problem.
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Very possible NoBaddy.
Remember - we were DELIBERATLY trying to collide.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Strange...flying the Yak, I routinely get inside 200 and have never had a problem.
That's 200 on your FE.
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The major problem with collisions is the loser's texting on ch 200;
"Wow Reo, is HO the only move you know ?" :furious :furious :furious
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It is very hard to hit spinner to spinner. I did tests last year and found that the guy who jerked out of the way at the last second even though on his end it still looked like a collision...he took less damage than the guy who just flew straight. He still hit, but usually it was his tail end that caught the prop of the other plane.
Although having no collision on was fun in AW, it does force you to fly better when collisions can happen. As far as who collided with who, Ive been on auto pilot in a buff and had fighters collide my 6, and I got the collision notice. Ive hit guys dead on and walked away and seen others do the same to me. It all comes out in the wash.
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Originally posted by bozon
That's 200 on your FE.
...and I was commenting on Kev's statement, "between 200-400 out when damage started". Which occured on his FE.
CC the deliberate stuff, Kev. Still, if you are taking collision damage from 200 to 400 out on someone's 6, the deliberate part shouldn't matter. I'm just glad it doesn't happen to me. My gunnery is most effective when I crawl up the bad guy's butt and shoot my way out from the inside. :)
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NoBaddy - No it says he took damage when he was 200-400 out on MY FE. (I was in front, he was 'rear-ending' me)
On his it would read 0, I would 'assume'.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
My gunnery is most effective when I crawl up the bad guy's butt and shoot my way out from the inside. :)
I beleive THAT is what I am seeing more of in recent days (not you personally NB), probably more of a snapshot or high deflection thing than a dead-6 or HO. Some guy bores into your plane (rams you) with guns blazing, willing to take the 50% chance of catasrophic damage just to get a kill, but sometimes able to pop you before he hits and take none. It seems there should be incentive to avoid a collision, or an ACM that in RL would result in one, at all costs.
Anyhow the source of frustration for many is the message that "xxx has collided with you" arriving just as your plane disintegrates. At least I beleive the two concurrent events are the cause for frustration. I haven't seen anyone whine when THEY collide, maybe I haven't paid enough attention, or underestimate the ability of he whiners.
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Originally posted by Edbert1
I beleive THAT is what I am seeing more of in recent days (not you personally NB), probably more of a snapshot or high deflection thing than a dead-6 or HO. Some guy bores into your plane (rams you) with guns blazing, willing to take the 50% chance of catasrophic damage just to get a kill, but sometimes able to pop you before he hits and take none. It seems there should be incentive to avoid a collision, or an ACM that in RL would result in one, at all costs.
Anyhow the source of frustration for many is the message that "xxx has collided with you" arriving just as your plane disintegrates. At least I beleive the two concurrent events are the cause for frustration. I haven't seen anyone whine when THEY collide, maybe I haven't paid enough attention, or underestimate the ability of he whiners.
How about this ...
It is my understanding that a plane blows up when the pilot is killed. In the past, this made sense. Less for the server to keep track of.
How about when the pilot is actually killed, the pilot goes into total blackout for let's say ... 5 seconds ... after 5 seconds the plane blows up or just put the pilot into blackout and the plane explodes when it hits terra-firma.
This would definately solve the condition of those boring in on the plane for that "blow or collide" scenario. They would always collide and hurt themselves which hopefully would discourage this scenario.
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Originally posted by Eagler
just turn on friendly collides and everyone will be so busy whining about that they'll forget about this one :)
:D
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Originally posted by Kev367th
NoBaddy - No it says he took damage when he was 200-400 out on MY FE. (I was in front, he was 'rear-ending' me)
On his it would read 0, I would 'assume'.
Right Kev...I blame my misread on a "senior moment". :)
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Originally posted by Kev367th
NoBaddy - No it says he took damage when he was 200-400 out on MY FE. (I was in front, he was 'rear-ending' me)
On his it would read 0, I would 'assume'.
Also explains all those "WTF!!!!" moments when someone "apparently"managed to kill you at d800 with .303s.
Objects in the rearview mirror are closer than they appear . . .
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COLLISIONS!!! I didnt know you could even collide with another player wow talk about realistic simulation!
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If you see someone fly away from a collision detected on their end (ie, you receive a "so and so collided with you" PM, they are damaged. The damage varies; not every collision, no matter what it looks like on your end, results in catastrophic failure. No one who registers a collision on their PC "flies away undamaged."
I wonder if you still have damage to your plane if you get a collision message, then check the damage with cntrl+d and dont see any damage there? I always check after a collision and sometimes my damage list is still all green.
P.S. Just to clarify I am talking about when I have gotten the You have Collided with XXXX messages.